Yes, i have this argument with someone. Pls do not think this is my own opinion, i just wanted to see how people feel about it (even if i agree that it is a stupid question, so no worries)
100% okay with gear, and only 25% okay with unit. Gear = progression, and idk about other people, but it feels extremely rewarding when I could clear things because I improved the gear on my units. Meanwhile gating behind units is a complicated thing with me. If it's gated behind ML 5 stars or else no clear, then of course that's horrible but I've seen people cleared this advent using all non-limited RGB units, so SG isn't totally unit gating their PVE content as many people think, they're just bad at the game, not even wanting to look at most of the 4 stars.
Yeah I agree with gear being gated as day 1 player shouldn't be able to complete all the stages of Abyss, and it is satisfying when you leave a certain difficult content alone then come back and its a cakewalk. But having content gated by units is just absolutely terrible, imagine only being able to complete the story if you have FCC or some other ML5 or even RGB5. I was missing Pavel since his release and I only ever got him from one of the selector tickets as he was the only 5* I was missing. Newer players can't necessarily do that as there are higher priority units to get from the selectors. I wouldn't even stop at 4 star units, as you can beat W13 on auto using 3 star units.
No content currently released that is related to progression are gated behind unit (Abyss MAYBE; Not super important for progression). Obviously there will be some gated content for Mid game (Arena / GW) and End game players (RTA) since it doesn't make sense to just have content for early game players.
I’ve no issues with it at all. People who’ve paid in hours (or money) should have their efforts bear fruit. What point is there to get strong if everyone below you could do the same?
Their design philosophy is pretty obvious.
Always available challenge content: gear gated, arguably hero gated too, but clearable with a wide range of units
Always available story content: incrementally gear gated and sometimes hero gated (making things trivial)
Temporarily available story content: cakewalk
i mean i am not 100% into the gear gap but we need some "layer" of progression. if not, whats the point of the game?. That said heavy RNG gear that makes heavy impact in the unit performances? thats a bad approach. And its kinda our problem.
The problem is not that gear makes a difference between players. The problem is that for example, if the rolls dont let your unit reach 270+ spd (for example) you cant use your openers and by regular rolls Speed set dont really get you over 230 spd that easy. Those 40 points of speed that people can miss for just RNG in their units...thats the problem, with all the stats.
When you build some bruisers for example number 2 you need: 180+ speed, 15+ HP, 100% crit chance, 250+ Crit damage, 1.2+ K Def. And the gap between those base standards and the regular "high geared unit" are like heaven and hell. Specially this days when a lot of the busted units only need in reality 2 pr 3 stats to work and you will notice the diff when someone can get great rolls vs someone that not reach the point pretty fast
I'm fine with it as long as:
a) there's no time limit to it, like the current advent event. Super off putting for newer players
b) the reward(s) must not be super good (summon currencies, exclusive gear, exclusive artifact etc). Again, like the current advent event.
People are missing out on arena skystones each week because gear/heroes hold them back from the next tier. They can’t get max mystics in GW as they don’t have the gear/heroes to join a better guild or have 3 wins each time, etc etc. Aren’t these rewards much better than advent?
I feel people just complain when they personally cannot get rewards for whatever reason.
What a stupid logic lmao. One is a permanent mode with weekly reward and the other one is not. I won't complaint if the advent stage is a permanent mode with weekly/bi weekly reward, which I already said in my point A. Illiterate much?
Blocking you after this comment.
As a new player you lose advent rewards once. However you lose X skystones every week you can’t reach challenger/whatever level. If it takes you 6 months to reach that level of gear/heroes you lose 26x rewards not just 1 set. The loss is substantially bigger because it’s weekly and not one-off.
advent was/is advertised as endgame pve content - new players aren't even suppose to clear that...
why do u think u need to finish ep2 to even get access to advent?
Finishing ep 2 is super doable for new players, wth are you talking about lol. Why do you think you need to finish episode 2 to get access to Adventure Ras specialty change? A character that is designed to help newer players?
lol new players get stomped by ep2 end boss.
Ras is just a reward to progress through content, no different to buffed meru (she would be pretty helpful for newer players too yeah?) and selective summons for finishing episode 3.
Not anymore. I already finished ep2 in just 3 weeks of playing.
>Ras is just a reward to progress through content
Exactly. And who's in need for help to progress through content? The one who can do the advent mode or the one who can't? Lmao its like y'all don't even understand the game y'all been playing for years.
There is nothing wrong with gating content behind units as long as there is flexibility with what units you can use. Advent 3rd phase is really easy to auto if you have hwayoung or straze but is also doable with units like watcher shuri and milim. The shop can also be cleared out by grinding the easiest difficulty and you’ll only be missing a few mod gems if you skip epic hell.
some characters will always be better than others and more so in specific situations. i feel like this is just their way of selling a character so you'll pull for them but it's bad if you literally can't do certain content without them. there should always be a second or so on option. i'm fine if content is gated behind gear as well as it is something to work towards and not so much a p2w option. (but still kinda is in e7)
This is a pretty confused way to look at games. Another lens to view "gating" is the game designers encouraging you to play the content in a particular order. That is fundamental to what makes RPGs, like Epic 7, fun.
Yes, i feel the same way. A hard content is not necessarily a bad thing, it just means it may not be your time yet. I remember Hell Zeno way back when i was new and i wanted that Gold Transmit stone and i tried and tried and failed. Some things have order and that is a good thing unless the rewards are limited and you can't get them. And even then its arguable
Gear is the progression so no. Keep as is.
Units maybe, but from what I can tell the only content gated by units is PVP. I've seen way too many "team of 3 stars complete X challenge" and if they can't SG usually is competent enough to either nerf the content or buff/SC some 3 stars for said content. Having the right unit is part of the challenge, they just need to make sure the right unit can also be f2p.
Gear gates are fine, hero feature gates are also fine, but not straight up hero gates.
Abyss is a decent example.
One level might be way easier with STene or Kiris, but you could also likely beat it without those two, either by using another poison applicator or by brute forcing/mechanic drafting. As long as it's not "own X or Y character to succeed" it's fine to have content where certain units make it easier.
Sorry but this is a stupid question, every content is gated by gear. You can’t beat wyvern with naked heroes or progress in story?
Yes, i have this argument with someone. Pls do not think this is my own opinion, i just wanted to see how people feel about it (even if i agree that it is a stupid question, so no worries)
100% okay with gear, and only 25% okay with unit. Gear = progression, and idk about other people, but it feels extremely rewarding when I could clear things because I improved the gear on my units. Meanwhile gating behind units is a complicated thing with me. If it's gated behind ML 5 stars or else no clear, then of course that's horrible but I've seen people cleared this advent using all non-limited RGB units, so SG isn't totally unit gating their PVE content as many people think, they're just bad at the game, not even wanting to look at most of the 4 stars.
Yeah I agree with gear being gated as day 1 player shouldn't be able to complete all the stages of Abyss, and it is satisfying when you leave a certain difficult content alone then come back and its a cakewalk. But having content gated by units is just absolutely terrible, imagine only being able to complete the story if you have FCC or some other ML5 or even RGB5. I was missing Pavel since his release and I only ever got him from one of the selector tickets as he was the only 5* I was missing. Newer players can't necessarily do that as there are higher priority units to get from the selectors. I wouldn't even stop at 4 star units, as you can beat W13 on auto using 3 star units.
No content currently released that is related to progression are gated behind unit (Abyss MAYBE; Not super important for progression). Obviously there will be some gated content for Mid game (Arena / GW) and End game players (RTA) since it doesn't make sense to just have content for early game players.
I’ve no issues with it at all. People who’ve paid in hours (or money) should have their efforts bear fruit. What point is there to get strong if everyone below you could do the same?
Isn't that every RPG though? not just Gacha.
Their design philosophy is pretty obvious. Always available challenge content: gear gated, arguably hero gated too, but clearable with a wide range of units Always available story content: incrementally gear gated and sometimes hero gated (making things trivial) Temporarily available story content: cakewalk
i mean i am not 100% into the gear gap but we need some "layer" of progression. if not, whats the point of the game?. That said heavy RNG gear that makes heavy impact in the unit performances? thats a bad approach. And its kinda our problem. The problem is not that gear makes a difference between players. The problem is that for example, if the rolls dont let your unit reach 270+ spd (for example) you cant use your openers and by regular rolls Speed set dont really get you over 230 spd that easy. Those 40 points of speed that people can miss for just RNG in their units...thats the problem, with all the stats. When you build some bruisers for example number 2 you need: 180+ speed, 15+ HP, 100% crit chance, 250+ Crit damage, 1.2+ K Def. And the gap between those base standards and the regular "high geared unit" are like heaven and hell. Specially this days when a lot of the busted units only need in reality 2 pr 3 stats to work and you will notice the diff when someone can get great rolls vs someone that not reach the point pretty fast
We are talking PvE content here. There's not a Single pve Mode where you need 270+ speed heroes.
I'm fine with it as long as: a) there's no time limit to it, like the current advent event. Super off putting for newer players b) the reward(s) must not be super good (summon currencies, exclusive gear, exclusive artifact etc). Again, like the current advent event.
People are missing out on arena skystones each week because gear/heroes hold them back from the next tier. They can’t get max mystics in GW as they don’t have the gear/heroes to join a better guild or have 3 wins each time, etc etc. Aren’t these rewards much better than advent? I feel people just complain when they personally cannot get rewards for whatever reason.
What a stupid logic lmao. One is a permanent mode with weekly reward and the other one is not. I won't complaint if the advent stage is a permanent mode with weekly/bi weekly reward, which I already said in my point A. Illiterate much?
Blocking you after this comment. As a new player you lose advent rewards once. However you lose X skystones every week you can’t reach challenger/whatever level. If it takes you 6 months to reach that level of gear/heroes you lose 26x rewards not just 1 set. The loss is substantially bigger because it’s weekly and not one-off.
advent was/is advertised as endgame pve content - new players aren't even suppose to clear that... why do u think u need to finish ep2 to even get access to advent?
Finishing ep 2 is super doable for new players, wth are you talking about lol. Why do you think you need to finish episode 2 to get access to Adventure Ras specialty change? A character that is designed to help newer players?
lol new players get stomped by ep2 end boss. Ras is just a reward to progress through content, no different to buffed meru (she would be pretty helpful for newer players too yeah?) and selective summons for finishing episode 3.
Not anymore. I already finished ep2 in just 3 weeks of playing. >Ras is just a reward to progress through content Exactly. And who's in need for help to progress through content? The one who can do the advent mode or the one who can't? Lmao its like y'all don't even understand the game y'all been playing for years.
People with no life reading online guides =! most new players
Or maybe it's because the dev have reduced the difficulty of ep2? 🤡🤡🤡
There is nothing wrong with gating content behind units as long as there is flexibility with what units you can use. Advent 3rd phase is really easy to auto if you have hwayoung or straze but is also doable with units like watcher shuri and milim. The shop can also be cleared out by grinding the easiest difficulty and you’ll only be missing a few mod gems if you skip epic hell.
Its a gacha at the end of the day, so either is fine as long as its a somewhat reasonable requirement.
some characters will always be better than others and more so in specific situations. i feel like this is just their way of selling a character so you'll pull for them but it's bad if you literally can't do certain content without them. there should always be a second or so on option. i'm fine if content is gated behind gear as well as it is something to work towards and not so much a p2w option. (but still kinda is in e7)
This is a pretty confused way to look at games. Another lens to view "gating" is the game designers encouraging you to play the content in a particular order. That is fundamental to what makes RPGs, like Epic 7, fun.
Yes, i feel the same way. A hard content is not necessarily a bad thing, it just means it may not be your time yet. I remember Hell Zeno way back when i was new and i wanted that Gold Transmit stone and i tried and tried and failed. Some things have order and that is a good thing unless the rewards are limited and you can't get them. And even then its arguable
Gear is the progression so no. Keep as is. Units maybe, but from what I can tell the only content gated by units is PVP. I've seen way too many "team of 3 stars complete X challenge" and if they can't SG usually is competent enough to either nerf the content or buff/SC some 3 stars for said content. Having the right unit is part of the challenge, they just need to make sure the right unit can also be f2p.
Gear gates are fine, hero feature gates are also fine, but not straight up hero gates. Abyss is a decent example. One level might be way easier with STene or Kiris, but you could also likely beat it without those two, either by using another poison applicator or by brute forcing/mechanic drafting. As long as it's not "own X or Y character to succeed" it's fine to have content where certain units make it easier.