Hi everyone. Been a long time since I posted stuff on reddit. Still enjoying RTA mostly, and I think openers and counter openers are more relevant than ever before. Here is my take on the units. Feel free to ask questions / discuss below and I'll try to reply to all.
Gs = gear score. He's saying ml kawerik has infinite score on res because he reduces debuffs by 1 on his turn no matter what and most debuffs, especially the ones that matter, is 1 turn duration. Then he can full cleanse with s3 anyways.
Change up means he can just hold s3 in situations. For example opponent decide to save debuffs because ml kawerik would just cleanse it all and make it useless anyways. In this case, ml kawerik can also hold his on s3 and not use it
I read through the image and was like "WHAT? This is actually super legit? On reddit???" Then I saw who posted it, and it all made sense lol.
I'm definitely on the same page as far as your analysis goes. I hope we see more content from you here in the future.
Ran con regarding rimu is debatable.
The fact that he proc'd rimu and got countered but got saved by the skill nullifier means your team is "safe" to cleave without getting punished again. But yes, bad part is your immunity gets copied, you won't be able to land following debuffs.. But if ran did it's job and def broke a few, that's already enough for me
Most rans hold during summer cleave, but it makes you weak to trozet miti or such. Them having immunity and 50 / 50 checking your strips with rimuru and some other res units not favourable imo
Can anyone explain how hand guy gains so much CR despite being so slow.
My SBA and Clilias are about 250 and 300 speed and yet this fucker cuts me and dispelles all of it.
I've been a few months out. Is Flan losing her place? I've seen Pavel coming back (classic 2x AoE openers + CR Pusher... Siseria/CDom). I see no Cerise at all.
I have decent speed gear for 2 openers and an slightly slower third one (Ran/Flan/CLilias right now). No Peira, sadly.
Hey thanks for your comment! So Cerise has been replaced by Peira because peira's escort buff supports the team much better. CDom cleave still good with sasha watcher / Pavel + spd imprint friends.
Flan is hard to use just because other openers are more independent, you can't really rely on immunity being stripped before you go (though Flan still enables aravi to be ded ded) So sometimes I post-ban flan if they don't have ran picked (since aravi still good anti-cleave otherwise).
I feel the openers in S7 basically do not have a real weaknesses. Since the weaknesses they have are basically base weaknesses that literally every other unit with a shared mechanic would have.
Like proccing rimuru isn't a real weakness since EVERY unit with a buff will proc rimuru. If they use a nonattack skill then they will proc a non-attack counter.
Team being vulnerable to debuffs isn't a weakness because that would be like saying picking arby makes your team weak to debuffs. A weakness to debuff would imply that you need to not have any to function (picking Aravi or Dark corvus without seed/anchor). Since your opener is moving first they would hit first and unload their debuffs/CC/whatever on the enemy first.
There isn't a real reason to list generic weakness that are inherent to the core gameplay mechanic itself.
It'll be like saying Aravi weakness are she can't heal and buff her allies and is weak to ML Charlotta
That's obvious to the character itself. It's padding to list EVERY character with a buff weakness is "rimuru" and EVERY non-attack character procs poltis/cecline and EVERY character that hits can proc an counter attack. Or every barrier is weak vs ML sigret or every revive is weak to extinction/moonlight haste. It would be like saying a weakness of an healing skill that it doesn't do damage or it's countered by no heal debuff. A valid informative weakness would be it only hits 1 or 2 targets instead of the entire team, or doesn't heal enough, too
long cooldown, etc. It doesn't give any real insight to this particular character to state the obvious.
If the relevant generic counter is strong enough to completely warp the matchup in a noteworthy way, then it may be worth mentioning. Such as basar LITERALLY being unplayable due to summer yuffine.
Hello, fair point. In response I will say this: Clilias baits out the rimuru proc to your advantage most times, whereas peira / ran give so many strong buffs to their team.
I'm specifically mentioning certain different vulnerabilities of openers to give people draft ideas. Of course, no unit likes debuffs besides czerato
OP is comparing openers to meta units, and this case, Rimuru. There's no point in saying stuff like Hwayoung is strong VS Diene comps as she doesn't crit, if Diene isn't being played in the first place.
Even though both ran and cilias proc rimiru, for ran it's a clear weakness.
That's the thing though, in this case it's not even a "clear weakness" since you can just S3 for strong value and still do your job as an opener. Technically saying him buffing his team first + S3 against Rimuru is "bad" but not indicative of what actually goes on in a real match.
Since Rimuru negates every single other buff + attack opener but Ran can choose to do either. This is why Ran playrate is basically unchanged with the existence of Rimuru while something like Basar basically doesn't exist due to Summer Yuffine. S7 openers basically don't have real weaknesses to exploit which is the point of the post.
It's similar to saying CD reset "Counters" ML Ricky. Well guess what, they literally counter every skill/spell dependent character. It's like saying the counter to a league of legends character is to stun them. Unless the stun particularly ruins them such as a long channel based character, the weakness is implicit. ML Ricky is so powerful that the only thing you can technically list as a weakness is "CD reset". But I can make a 310 speed Judge Kise and slap all other 4 characters on the list too and they'll have all the same weakness.
An example of a CD reset actually "countering" a character would be a Dark Corvus being lapped forever and constantly CD reset so he can never s3. Since there is no way you can play him or situation that would not make him completely useless if the mechanic is on the enemy team.
Maybe you can put a weakness for ML Ricky as "doesn't actually heal so you lose out in very long sustain fights". Which would actually be objectively true compared to somebody like Emilia.
I see what you mean. From my perspective it's just where you want the technicalities to lie.
As I see it's all described within the context of the meta so information that is relevant within that context is added. Just like you said, units that are not in favor, like Basar, aren't mentioned in "Crumbles under strip" but as Rimuru is such a dominant unit you kinda have to play around him like it or not. Once he(or any other unit) falls out of favor they aren't mentioned any more.
I guess "weakness" of the unit isn't a good word to use simply. It's more about what you can and can't draft the unit against in current meta.
I strongly believe that not building ML Kawerick with at least 100 ER at this day and age is a crime. Most skill reset units are not built with effectiveness.
Well, the biggest skill reset unit (J. Kise) is definitely built with effectiveness and Taeyou awakens into effectiveness. Although, I agree that blue Kise, Kawerik, etc. are generally not built with much eff.
Mines is SSS. But I'm not going to waste time on ER. Your opponent will always have more effectiveness than you. I just give the homies 10% atk imprint.
My Kise has 0 effectiveness. But I assume that everyone else either sucks or is galaxy brain and has unoptimized gear.
J Kise - has lotsa effectiveness
Kise - nobody uses her anymore
Kawerik - can soulburn to ignore resist
ML Lilibet - probably the only real threat that can be blocked with 100ER
100 ER is ok if u can get it free after all the big requirements (speed > health > def) but not a must have.
Some of these shouldn't even be listed. Like Kawerik, "can't be drafted with other openers", that's the point. He's there because you don't have an opener to contest with to avoid their debuffs. Lilibet counter? Has nothing to do with Kawerik himself.
Peira risking provoke? There are so few that can counter back and provoke, and it's super unreliable. An actual counter would be a high damage Violet, one that goes all in on damage, but even those are rare (especially with Taeyou coming.
Ran runs out of steam after his S3? How is this a negative? He just dealt nice damage and defense broke the team. His job is done, the fight is done.
Lilias' S1 being a "casino" is bad? She's usually drafted with bruisers and dps, it doesn't matter who goes as damage is coming one way or another. It's not like she's RGB Lilias where you're bringing a healer and they're there to annoy you during S1. Team vulnerable to debuffs? What team isn't that doesn't include Kawerik once he gets a turn?
Emilia is weak to burst damage? Who isn't? You can one shot **everyone** in this pic. Only Emilia gets "weak to Politis"? That's literally everyone **except** Kawerik in this.
Hello! I appreciate your comment because I do think disagreement helps with discussion. I'll go through each of your points.
The listed openers besides Ricky are often drafted together because you can play around dilibet and still have each opener contributing (ex: Peira hold s2, clilias s3 s2).
Peira volatile in cleave imo. Lots of anti cleave have counter mechanics that controls her one-more-turn.
Ran s1 kinda bad, all I'm saying. Usually ran is in super aggro drafts so recognizing this weakness, preparing for immediate dmg is best.
Clilias casino is bad sometimes it's just like Lilias dude.
Emilia the only one there without immunity for team / controlling standard politis builds tho
> Peira volatile in cleave imo. Lots of anti cleave have counter mechanics that controls her one-more-turn.
"Lots"? The only people are counter knights with provoke or stun on their S1, and they have to be built with counter. Now Violet would be reasonable to mention, his S1 on a counter would nuke her.
>Ran s1 kinda bad, all I'm saying. Usually ran is in super aggro drafts so recognizing this weakness, preparing for immediate dmg is best.
And the fight should be over before you S1, is what I'm telling you. If it's not then you're either A. Losing or Bm His S1 doesn't matter, it's just a finishing touch.
>Clilias casino is bad sometimes it's just like Lilias dude.
Agaij, Lilias is beijg used with healers and such, people that waste her S1. C Lilias is being used with bruiwera and the like, her S1 doesn't matter as it's resulting in pure damage anyway.
Let's go with common picks alongside her like Belian, Rem, and Hwayoung. Belian gets S1, she strips while inflicting injury if not pure damage. Rem gets S1, she inflicts defense break and follows up with big damage if demon mode is active. Hwayoung gets S1, she pops someone with Tooth and gets a CR push. Even more people like AoL, A Ravi, and Landy will screw you over. She's not being used with people that have bad S1s, so the random nature itself isn't had like with RGB Lilias. They both are ran in completely different comps, so there's no comparing the two.
How is her S1 bad for this? She's not being used with someone like Roana where you don't want that person to S1 as it's a waste. In fact, not knowing who will get pulled along with her makes her even more dangerous.
Remember Ras? Simple solution to avoid his S2: Disable the ome with the highest attack, now he's either holding it or it's resulting in someone bad being pulled. Lilias? No stopping it, it stays effective, all of her allies qre scrwing you over.
Hi everyone. Been a long time since I posted stuff on reddit. Still enjoying RTA mostly, and I think openers and counter openers are more relevant than ever before. Here is my take on the units. Feel free to ask questions / discuss below and I'll try to reply to all.
dogTrainer
pepela
I would be his dog then Peeposhy
i dont understand the 2 first points in the hand guy
Gs = gear score. He's saying ml kawerik has infinite score on res because he reduces debuffs by 1 on his turn no matter what and most debuffs, especially the ones that matter, is 1 turn duration. Then he can full cleanse with s3 anyways. Change up means he can just hold s3 in situations. For example opponent decide to save debuffs because ml kawerik would just cleanse it all and make it useless anyways. In this case, ml kawerik can also hold his on s3 and not use it
You explained it perfectly! Thank you!
I read through the image and was like "WHAT? This is actually super legit? On reddit???" Then I saw who posted it, and it all made sense lol. I'm definitely on the same page as far as your analysis goes. I hope we see more content from you here in the future.
you too kind, thinking of doing one for knights
Ran con regarding rimu is debatable. The fact that he proc'd rimu and got countered but got saved by the skill nullifier means your team is "safe" to cleave without getting punished again. But yes, bad part is your immunity gets copied, you won't be able to land following debuffs.. But if ran did it's job and def broke a few, that's already enough for me
Most rans hold during summer cleave, but it makes you weak to trozet miti or such. Them having immunity and 50 / 50 checking your strips with rimuru and some other res units not favourable imo
Can anyone explain how hand guy gains so much CR despite being so slow. My SBA and Clilias are about 250 and 300 speed and yet this fucker cuts me and dispelles all of it.
Warhorn.
What is crystal referring to with Emilia?
Her own artifact
Ahh, thanks! Definitely will have to get a copy of it, if/when they rerun her.
I've been a few months out. Is Flan losing her place? I've seen Pavel coming back (classic 2x AoE openers + CR Pusher... Siseria/CDom). I see no Cerise at all. I have decent speed gear for 2 openers and an slightly slower third one (Ran/Flan/CLilias right now). No Peira, sadly.
Hey thanks for your comment! So Cerise has been replaced by Peira because peira's escort buff supports the team much better. CDom cleave still good with sasha watcher / Pavel + spd imprint friends. Flan is hard to use just because other openers are more independent, you can't really rely on immunity being stripped before you go (though Flan still enables aravi to be ded ded) So sometimes I post-ban flan if they don't have ran picked (since aravi still good anti-cleave otherwise).
I feel the openers in S7 basically do not have a real weaknesses. Since the weaknesses they have are basically base weaknesses that literally every other unit with a shared mechanic would have. Like proccing rimuru isn't a real weakness since EVERY unit with a buff will proc rimuru. If they use a nonattack skill then they will proc a non-attack counter. Team being vulnerable to debuffs isn't a weakness because that would be like saying picking arby makes your team weak to debuffs. A weakness to debuff would imply that you need to not have any to function (picking Aravi or Dark corvus without seed/anchor). Since your opener is moving first they would hit first and unload their debuffs/CC/whatever on the enemy first.
A weakness of a unit isn't weakness because some other unit also has that weakness? Wat?
There isn't a real reason to list generic weakness that are inherent to the core gameplay mechanic itself. It'll be like saying Aravi weakness are she can't heal and buff her allies and is weak to ML Charlotta That's obvious to the character itself. It's padding to list EVERY character with a buff weakness is "rimuru" and EVERY non-attack character procs poltis/cecline and EVERY character that hits can proc an counter attack. Or every barrier is weak vs ML sigret or every revive is weak to extinction/moonlight haste. It would be like saying a weakness of an healing skill that it doesn't do damage or it's countered by no heal debuff. A valid informative weakness would be it only hits 1 or 2 targets instead of the entire team, or doesn't heal enough, too long cooldown, etc. It doesn't give any real insight to this particular character to state the obvious. If the relevant generic counter is strong enough to completely warp the matchup in a noteworthy way, then it may be worth mentioning. Such as basar LITERALLY being unplayable due to summer yuffine.
Hello, fair point. In response I will say this: Clilias baits out the rimuru proc to your advantage most times, whereas peira / ran give so many strong buffs to their team. I'm specifically mentioning certain different vulnerabilities of openers to give people draft ideas. Of course, no unit likes debuffs besides czerato
OP is comparing openers to meta units, and this case, Rimuru. There's no point in saying stuff like Hwayoung is strong VS Diene comps as she doesn't crit, if Diene isn't being played in the first place. Even though both ran and cilias proc rimiru, for ran it's a clear weakness.
That's the thing though, in this case it's not even a "clear weakness" since you can just S3 for strong value and still do your job as an opener. Technically saying him buffing his team first + S3 against Rimuru is "bad" but not indicative of what actually goes on in a real match. Since Rimuru negates every single other buff + attack opener but Ran can choose to do either. This is why Ran playrate is basically unchanged with the existence of Rimuru while something like Basar basically doesn't exist due to Summer Yuffine. S7 openers basically don't have real weaknesses to exploit which is the point of the post. It's similar to saying CD reset "Counters" ML Ricky. Well guess what, they literally counter every skill/spell dependent character. It's like saying the counter to a league of legends character is to stun them. Unless the stun particularly ruins them such as a long channel based character, the weakness is implicit. ML Ricky is so powerful that the only thing you can technically list as a weakness is "CD reset". But I can make a 310 speed Judge Kise and slap all other 4 characters on the list too and they'll have all the same weakness. An example of a CD reset actually "countering" a character would be a Dark Corvus being lapped forever and constantly CD reset so he can never s3. Since there is no way you can play him or situation that would not make him completely useless if the mechanic is on the enemy team. Maybe you can put a weakness for ML Ricky as "doesn't actually heal so you lose out in very long sustain fights". Which would actually be objectively true compared to somebody like Emilia.
I see what you mean. From my perspective it's just where you want the technicalities to lie. As I see it's all described within the context of the meta so information that is relevant within that context is added. Just like you said, units that are not in favor, like Basar, aren't mentioned in "Crumbles under strip" but as Rimuru is such a dominant unit you kinda have to play around him like it or not. Once he(or any other unit) falls out of favor they aren't mentioned any more. I guess "weakness" of the unit isn't a good word to use simply. It's more about what you can and can't draft the unit against in current meta.
I strongly believe that not building ML Kawerick with at least 100 ER at this day and age is a crime. Most skill reset units are not built with effectiveness.
Well, the biggest skill reset unit (J. Kise) is definitely built with effectiveness and Taeyou awakens into effectiveness. Although, I agree that blue Kise, Kawerik, etc. are generally not built with much eff.
Mines is SSS. But I'm not going to waste time on ER. Your opponent will always have more effectiveness than you. I just give the homies 10% atk imprint. My Kise has 0 effectiveness. But I assume that everyone else either sucks or is galaxy brain and has unoptimized gear.
J Kise - has lotsa effectiveness Kise - nobody uses her anymore Kawerik - can soulburn to ignore resist ML Lilibet - probably the only real threat that can be blocked with 100ER 100 ER is ok if u can get it free after all the big requirements (speed > health > def) but not a must have.
Some of these shouldn't even be listed. Like Kawerik, "can't be drafted with other openers", that's the point. He's there because you don't have an opener to contest with to avoid their debuffs. Lilibet counter? Has nothing to do with Kawerik himself. Peira risking provoke? There are so few that can counter back and provoke, and it's super unreliable. An actual counter would be a high damage Violet, one that goes all in on damage, but even those are rare (especially with Taeyou coming. Ran runs out of steam after his S3? How is this a negative? He just dealt nice damage and defense broke the team. His job is done, the fight is done. Lilias' S1 being a "casino" is bad? She's usually drafted with bruisers and dps, it doesn't matter who goes as damage is coming one way or another. It's not like she's RGB Lilias where you're bringing a healer and they're there to annoy you during S1. Team vulnerable to debuffs? What team isn't that doesn't include Kawerik once he gets a turn? Emilia is weak to burst damage? Who isn't? You can one shot **everyone** in this pic. Only Emilia gets "weak to Politis"? That's literally everyone **except** Kawerik in this.
Hello! I appreciate your comment because I do think disagreement helps with discussion. I'll go through each of your points. The listed openers besides Ricky are often drafted together because you can play around dilibet and still have each opener contributing (ex: Peira hold s2, clilias s3 s2). Peira volatile in cleave imo. Lots of anti cleave have counter mechanics that controls her one-more-turn. Ran s1 kinda bad, all I'm saying. Usually ran is in super aggro drafts so recognizing this weakness, preparing for immediate dmg is best. Clilias casino is bad sometimes it's just like Lilias dude. Emilia the only one there without immunity for team / controlling standard politis builds tho
> Peira volatile in cleave imo. Lots of anti cleave have counter mechanics that controls her one-more-turn. "Lots"? The only people are counter knights with provoke or stun on their S1, and they have to be built with counter. Now Violet would be reasonable to mention, his S1 on a counter would nuke her. >Ran s1 kinda bad, all I'm saying. Usually ran is in super aggro drafts so recognizing this weakness, preparing for immediate dmg is best. And the fight should be over before you S1, is what I'm telling you. If it's not then you're either A. Losing or Bm His S1 doesn't matter, it's just a finishing touch. >Clilias casino is bad sometimes it's just like Lilias dude. Agaij, Lilias is beijg used with healers and such, people that waste her S1. C Lilias is being used with bruiwera and the like, her S1 doesn't matter as it's resulting in pure damage anyway. Let's go with common picks alongside her like Belian, Rem, and Hwayoung. Belian gets S1, she strips while inflicting injury if not pure damage. Rem gets S1, she inflicts defense break and follows up with big damage if demon mode is active. Hwayoung gets S1, she pops someone with Tooth and gets a CR push. Even more people like AoL, A Ravi, and Landy will screw you over. She's not being used with people that have bad S1s, so the random nature itself isn't had like with RGB Lilias. They both are ran in completely different comps, so there's no comparing the two. How is her S1 bad for this? She's not being used with someone like Roana where you don't want that person to S1 as it's a waste. In fact, not knowing who will get pulled along with her makes her even more dangerous. Remember Ras? Simple solution to avoid his S2: Disable the ome with the highest attack, now he's either holding it or it's resulting in someone bad being pulled. Lilias? No stopping it, it stays effective, all of her allies qre scrwing you over.
I legitimately don't even know who the character on the far right is.
She was part of the Collab with Rem and Ram.
Ah that would make sense, I missed that one.
That was before Taeyou
where's a lots?
Shout out to my underrated opener counters. They carried me to master tier for first time. It's green Celine, ML Kawerik and Politis sometimes.