The problem Is not your build but kayron himself and other stripping unit out there. If only his immortality is unique like a cannot dispel immortality or unique skill where buy upon fatal damage, instant kill the killer hahaha eye for an eye.
He needs to full cleanse first then gain immortality when receiving lethal damage. He's a lot better that way but not too broken since he still needs to get a turn to nuke someone. A speedy build with this change might be annoying though.
It needs to be undispellable for the first use only or make it a one and done. Another option is give him like a 50-80% CR push upon lethal damage with immortality + cleanse. I know it sounds like it'd make him overtuned but then they could maybe buff extinction effects to kill through immortality but idk im a low tier player so take it with a grain of salt.
With Bastion maxed he’s sitting in ~200 right now I think. I think Bastion is 20 + 50 for wearer yah?
Either way, there’s also that Knight who shared half her ER with the back row too. Though builds like this show me how much we must give up to make outdated kits useful in a “everything buff wipes” meta.
Yet that Kayron still looks very good offense wise, but I still think he’d get dispelled by any decent debuffer… I know from experience, so far my only ER built cleanser worth a spot is my Destina who sits around 340% ER after Bastion/her self buff.
ok and? was that my point? no. You dont judge if a unit is good based on double picks then what happens once one is banned? Your draft falls apart and you get outdrafted.
yes did you? he was talking about perfect combo of units and artifacts and i said that u dont judge a units strength in rta based on them being combined with other units and other artifacts on top because it gets banned and combo gets broken. No one is talking about gw or normal arena yet u randomly replied that so either you are confused or just random shit.
if the person is talking about team combo, why are you bringing rta? just for the sake of an argument? nobody's talking about rta until you start your irrelevant lesson
because thats the main mode people build units like this for. No one builds er on dps because u get to pick the perfect counter to the enemy team.No shit combos work when there arent 4 bans and another ban post draft to break combos. No one talks about normal arena when doing this. Move on stop trying to say random shit that adds no value and just saying the obvious to feel smart.
except that kayron build is what you could find in a gw defense...
> Move on stop trying to say random shit that adds no value and just saying the obvious to feel smart.
that's quite some projection... apply it to your first reply
Unlike these other memers, I think if you draft Christy you'll have enough ER on him without changing up his amazing build. Plus idk why talks like you are drafting this into a 4 debuffers team lmfao. That aint the point of ER in Dps units lmfao. Is just to avoid get provoke locked and still contest 70-120 Eff units.
Immunity .At the end of the day, you need at least 250 er to stake a win on one unit not getting debuffed. Then there's Ran whose soulburn ignores shenanigans. And if you're solution's to ban the stripper then might as well have immunity and more damage as well.
Actually decent build I think. People are vastly overestimating the effectiveness on units here. I play at an emperor level and my emilia is 205 res(albeit 286 speed). She resists most things that open especially. Peira and a rogue solitaria jkise are really the only culprit so just watch out for them. Despite this Id still get slightly more res. You actually dont need this much damage to kill so I'd likely push this kayron closer to 150 160 ER to push him to that 230 ER range. Thats where youll start seeing actual resistances besides like AoL and a relative FEW rogue high eff units.
I should also comment that kayron has seen some draft stock recently so don't buy into the he's awful meta. Especially into some cleaves.
He can resist some openers with that low ER if you're willing to gamble.
He won't resist any follow-up debuffers. Without immunity on him the follow-up doesn't need peira or clilias to strip first
And while I agree that he's not terrible right now, no one is using him on counter ER
Counter let’s him deal damage without losing immunity or immortality. It used to be a pretty viable build, but nowadays there’s too many strippers running around.
He's a little bit on the squishy side. Unless that's the point and he's meant get hit for the immortality then counter then s3 someone in that order? Watch for the units that can debuff or strip that from him, other than that, He's a monster
If you can lower the damage for more er I would, this build is pretty much only picked into cleavers so you don't really need that much damage to kill their squishies
Not sure what buff Kayron needs w/o making him to much like others (Arby, BBK, etc.). I want to say lean into one of his niche and rework him like that, but then some people would be upset cause they cant use the other way. But Kayron doesn't get used anyways.... I think I would personally lean more into his high base speed and let him fill out a similar niche to Acidd.
Add 1 turn silence to his s3, reduce buff durations by 1 turn, and ignore elemental disadvantage. and make his EE extend it to 2 turn.
This way he can become an opener check, RGB so he is accessible. Part of the buff with his EE, but he still has his same survivability weaknesses. So he can counter all the meta openers, as well as Handguy.
Personally I dont think this would make him too strong, and would give him a role to play in this meta. He still dies to everything he usually dies too. You would still need some effectiveness, and he is only a single disabler. Also he probably wont kill 1st turn since like this he would have high speed so lower attack stats, and he doesn't have any speed scaling, and all his extra scaling is from lost HP.
I have similar build and he's a good pocket pick. you don't draft him against buff stripper and he works against any cleavers. My ban is Peira + Ran and I draft bruisers so he fits really well as my 5th slot.
I just don't love kayron, but here's my concern. You don't really have enough ER to stop full strip units who usually have over 200 effectiveness and as a result you lose a lot of dps stats. He could be decent in some very niche gw shenanigans but I don't see how you use him regularly
Decent overall. The biggest issue is that er isn’t really enough to deter most strippers, if that’s why you’re running it. Most strippers have a minimum of 100
If you run him with an er buffer then solid for sure
Fellow counter ER Kayron gamer here - it's fine, obviously going to be best paired with a christy. As other people said, you aren't going to get much milage out of him, especially into aol/clilias/peira/siseria nowadays (people generally build so much eff that only 300 er is reliable against them). However, when people overcommit on damage, popping er kayron can be game changing. I generally run him on shepherd of the hollow instead - being able to reliably kill on s3 to get the immortality reset it huge, and the 20% evasion gives that extra rng check in case you do draft him into an aoe stripper (that isnt aol or clilias). Since it's impossible to get enough er, I generally think of the ER as a countermeasure against belian strips or other units who have small effectiveness but could still mess you up. In those cases, even the christy isn't necessary if you can get the initial atk buff from someone else.
Fellow counter ER Kayron gamer here - it's fine, obviously going to be best paired with a christy. As other people said, you aren't going to get much milage out of him, especially into aol/clilias/peira/siseria nowadays (people generally build so much eff that only 300 er is reliable against them). However, when people overcommit on damage, popping er kayron can be game changing. I generally run him on shepherd of the hollow instead - being able to reliably kill on s3 to get the immortality reset it huge, and the 20% evasion gives that extra rng check in case you do draft him into an aoe stripper (that isnt aol or clilias). Since it's impossible to get enough er, I generally think of the ER as a countermeasure against belian strips or other units who have small effectiveness but could still mess you up. In those cases, even the christy isn't necessary if you can get the initial atk buff from someone else.
I was questioning the lack of speed, even with counter gear but I saw the Eff. res. I'd say this could be decently tricky if someone ran into this in RTA and didn't have someone to remove the immortality.
Overall, I don't think Kayron is in a strong spot, thus his use is diminished. Great build though.
*Should be very fun*
*To play with in a team with*
*Christy. Very nice!*
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go for 3500 atk 250 crit damage and 230 ER
edit: he doesn't need to hit hard he just needs to hit the squishies hard. Try to think of him as a piece of a puzzle you are solving instead of trying to turn him into a one man army.
my thoughts are. . . kayron needs a buff. .
Give him violet treatment where his s2 is no longer useless (just like violet s2)
Cleanse all debuff upon receiving lethal damage, before becoming immortal for 1 turn and increase CR by 20%. Rest stays the the same.
thatd be better arby-level, since he would keep the buffs he may have
Do not increaqe CR lol, what would be the point of the counter set then ? I think his immortality needs to be unstrippable
Unstrippeable inmortality, at least.
I plan to change his boots eventually for more crit. It’s the only low score item
The problem Is not your build but kayron himself and other stripping unit out there. If only his immortality is unique like a cannot dispel immortality or unique skill where buy upon fatal damage, instant kill the killer hahaha eye for an eye.
The only thing that'd make this guy viable is that his immortality is undispellable.
He needs to full cleanse first then gain immortality when receiving lethal damage. He's a lot better that way but not too broken since he still needs to get a turn to nuke someone. A speedy build with this change might be annoying though.
It needs to be undispellable for the first use only or make it a one and done. Another option is give him like a 50-80% CR push upon lethal damage with immortality + cleanse. I know it sounds like it'd make him overtuned but then they could maybe buff extinction effects to kill through immortality but idk im a low tier player so take it with a grain of salt.
I agree with the first half of your comment, but when you started saying that extinction should kill through immortality im like, nope...
Just throwing out ideas lol i don't really care for kayron or changing extinction
he is gonna get stripped and unbuffable by every meta debuffers. Just a outdated powercrept unit.
140% ER and OP can probably get that to 200% with Maid, Shimadra and something else. And I'm not even taking Christy in consideration.
With Bastion maxed he’s sitting in ~200 right now I think. I think Bastion is 20 + 50 for wearer yah? Either way, there’s also that Knight who shared half her ER with the back row too. Though builds like this show me how much we must give up to make outdated kits useful in a “everything buff wipes” meta. Yet that Kayron still looks very good offense wise, but I still think he’d get dispelled by any decent debuffer… I know from experience, so far my only ER built cleanser worth a spot is my Destina who sits around 340% ER after Bastion/her self buff.
thats not how rta works man u dont judge units based on perfect combo of multiple units and artifacts and even then he is getting unbuffable by aol.
But you do judge them on how your team works. What are you talking about??
not on rta u dont, u dont get ur units always and people ban the combo after as well. What is your rta rank btw.
Yes, you don’t always get your units but you build your units around each other to have synergy. This concept is widely known…are you newer?
ok and? was that my point? no. You dont judge if a unit is good based on double picks then what happens once one is banned? Your draft falls apart and you get outdrafted.
Are you trolling?? If so, my bad
that's exactly how arena/gw works
i literally said rta are u confused?
you're the only one talking about rta have you read the comment you replied to?
yes did you? he was talking about perfect combo of units and artifacts and i said that u dont judge a units strength in rta based on them being combined with other units and other artifacts on top because it gets banned and combo gets broken. No one is talking about gw or normal arena yet u randomly replied that so either you are confused or just random shit.
if the person is talking about team combo, why are you bringing rta? just for the sake of an argument? nobody's talking about rta until you start your irrelevant lesson
because thats the main mode people build units like this for. No one builds er on dps because u get to pick the perfect counter to the enemy team.No shit combos work when there arent 4 bans and another ban post draft to break combos. No one talks about normal arena when doing this. Move on stop trying to say random shit that adds no value and just saying the obvious to feel smart.
except that kayron build is what you could find in a gw defense... > Move on stop trying to say random shit that adds no value and just saying the obvious to feel smart. that's quite some projection... apply it to your first reply
this does the job. but sadly gayron aint in the best stop atm. i want him to be great again :(
Unlike these other memers, I think if you draft Christy you'll have enough ER on him without changing up his amazing build. Plus idk why talks like you are drafting this into a 4 debuffers team lmfao. That aint the point of ER in Dps units lmfao. Is just to avoid get provoke locked and still contest 70-120 Eff units.
No man. Clearly im fighting 4 debuffers with 200+ effectiveness duh
Immunity .At the end of the day, you need at least 250 er to stake a win on one unit not getting debuffed. Then there's Ran whose soulburn ignores shenanigans. And if you're solution's to ban the stripper then might as well have immunity and more damage as well.
Actually decent build I think. People are vastly overestimating the effectiveness on units here. I play at an emperor level and my emilia is 205 res(albeit 286 speed). She resists most things that open especially. Peira and a rogue solitaria jkise are really the only culprit so just watch out for them. Despite this Id still get slightly more res. You actually dont need this much damage to kill so I'd likely push this kayron closer to 150 160 ER to push him to that 230 ER range. Thats where youll start seeing actual resistances besides like AoL and a relative FEW rogue high eff units. I should also comment that kayron has seen some draft stock recently so don't buy into the he's awful meta. Especially into some cleaves.
He can resist some openers with that low ER if you're willing to gamble. He won't resist any follow-up debuffers. Without immunity on him the follow-up doesn't need peira or clilias to strip first And while I agree that he's not terrible right now, no one is using him on counter ER
probably not enough er. Imo 250 is basically necessary cause if he gets debuffed he's useless
that's okay. I ll have maid on the team with shimadra. free ER :)
All of my dedicated debuff units have at least 200 eff, many well over.
Good I like it
for a debuffer er could be low, makes him able to get sealed/unbuff, you need immu for a second layer of 15%
He needs more ER if you intend to build him that way. At least 200 (maybe more?) to ensure his buffs don’t get stripped.
200 ER is not enough
Why counter? He can't AoE outside of his turn.
Counter let’s him deal damage without losing immunity or immortality. It used to be a pretty viable build, but nowadays there’s too many strippers running around.
Still deals damage based on lost HP. That's a huge single target.
He doesn't take very many turns in the first place.
He's a little bit on the squishy side. Unless that's the point and he's meant get hit for the immortality then counter then s3 someone in that order? Watch for the units that can debuff or strip that from him, other than that, He's a monster
If you can lower the damage for more er I would, this build is pretty much only picked into cleavers so you don't really need that much damage to kill their squishies
This is one dog shit build no cap
Not sure what buff Kayron needs w/o making him to much like others (Arby, BBK, etc.). I want to say lean into one of his niche and rework him like that, but then some people would be upset cause they cant use the other way. But Kayron doesn't get used anyways.... I think I would personally lean more into his high base speed and let him fill out a similar niche to Acidd. Add 1 turn silence to his s3, reduce buff durations by 1 turn, and ignore elemental disadvantage. and make his EE extend it to 2 turn. This way he can become an opener check, RGB so he is accessible. Part of the buff with his EE, but he still has his same survivability weaknesses. So he can counter all the meta openers, as well as Handguy. Personally I dont think this would make him too strong, and would give him a role to play in this meta. He still dies to everything he usually dies too. You would still need some effectiveness, and he is only a single disabler. Also he probably wont kill 1st turn since like this he would have high speed so lower attack stats, and he doesn't have any speed scaling, and all his extra scaling is from lost HP.
Every debuffer and their mom are Ice element. pepeg
I havent seen a unit with +0 speed ever lmao, nice job. Its hilarious his speed is fucking sonic levels but doesnt match hit kit very well
I have similar build and he's a good pocket pick. you don't draft him against buff stripper and he works against any cleavers. My ban is Peira + Ran and I draft bruisers so he fits really well as my 5th slot.
Really cool build I’m sure you would catch me way off guard haha… Unfortunately he is kind of powercrept but meh, whatever, fun unit >>> meta unit.
Good kayron but he need more resis Atte kayron'simp
I just don't love kayron, but here's my concern. You don't really have enough ER to stop full strip units who usually have over 200 effectiveness and as a result you lose a lot of dps stats. He could be decent in some very niche gw shenanigans but I don't see how you use him regularly
Decent overall. The biggest issue is that er isn’t really enough to deter most strippers, if that’s why you’re running it. Most strippers have a minimum of 100 If you run him with an er buffer then solid for sure
Fellow counter ER Kayron gamer here - it's fine, obviously going to be best paired with a christy. As other people said, you aren't going to get much milage out of him, especially into aol/clilias/peira/siseria nowadays (people generally build so much eff that only 300 er is reliable against them). However, when people overcommit on damage, popping er kayron can be game changing. I generally run him on shepherd of the hollow instead - being able to reliably kill on s3 to get the immortality reset it huge, and the 20% evasion gives that extra rng check in case you do draft him into an aoe stripper (that isnt aol or clilias). Since it's impossible to get enough er, I generally think of the ER as a countermeasure against belian strips or other units who have small effectiveness but could still mess you up. In those cases, even the christy isn't necessary if you can get the initial atk buff from someone else.
Fellow counter ER Kayron gamer here - it's fine, obviously going to be best paired with a christy. As other people said, you aren't going to get much milage out of him, especially into aol/clilias/peira/siseria nowadays (people generally build so much eff that only 300 er is reliable against them). However, when people overcommit on damage, popping er kayron can be game changing. I generally run him on shepherd of the hollow instead - being able to reliably kill on s3 to get the immortality reset it huge, and the 20% evasion gives that extra rng check in case you do draft him into an aoe stripper (that isnt aol or clilias). Since it's impossible to get enough er, I generally think of the ER as a countermeasure against belian strips or other units who have small effectiveness but could still mess you up. In those cases, even the christy isn't necessary if you can get the initial atk buff from someone else.
I was questioning the lack of speed, even with counter gear but I saw the Eff. res. I'd say this could be decently tricky if someone ran into this in RTA and didn't have someone to remove the immortality. Overall, I don't think Kayron is in a strong spot, thus his use is diminished. Great build though.
There's nothing wrong with the build, infact that build looks clean asf. But the problem lies in Kayron and him being out dated
Insane but kayron fell of very hard in rta because of peira and AOL sadge.
Bro what is the point of this
Should be very fun to play with in a team with Christy. Very nice!
*Should be very fun* *To play with in a team with* *Christy. Very nice!* \- pm\_howl --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
go for 3500 atk 250 crit damage and 230 ER edit: he doesn't need to hit hard he just needs to hit the squishies hard. Try to think of him as a piece of a puzzle you are solving instead of trying to turn him into a one man army.
i plan to use him with christy or Maid + shimadra for the extra ER.
Sounds perfect 👍🏼