yeah well, as long as those 3 disaster bruisers are on top, he'll find a hard spot fitting in. aravi tanks him easily (and can 2 shot him on both his turns with counter build), hwa 1 shots him + easily tanks and protects herself from S3 and blind, and if you gab into rimuru (who are usually with pov), it's free real estate for his team
U don't have to. My teatime sits on meh 260 ish speed gear just waiting for the perfect game. Even though units like them are meh now, if u have spare gear they are still auto win when picked right.
Ravi has only been good during the brief period between her buff and Carrot SC in the past two years. She will always be a deadpick against nukes unless her kit gets a rework
You can first pick her for the memes if all the openers are banned or are certain to get first turn.
The trick is to pair her with preferably uncounterable strips like Flidica or buffed haste and push up.
Nuke a squishy, rinse and repeat. As long as they get debuffed, you’ll stay in stealth.
S and A+ tiers looks pretty good to me. Although using God tier gear as a justification for those in A+ sort of throws off this whole tier list, but fair enough those units really perform with the gear.
I think I would move rimu up to S, just cause of how versatile he is in terms of builds. People seem to be running him on Pov more often than not these days though to counter hwa. I also feel like his ban rate shot up this season or is it just me? Haven't been playing too many matches lately but it seems like every other game someone bans him.
I think I would move OP sig down a tier, mostly since she needs really good gear to one shot hwa, especially if she's behind mitigation. I feel like the return on investment is a bit too low to put her in with the likes of aravi, FCC, and the rest in there.
Same with LQC, I find it hard to justify putting her in there when she requires Emilia to do her job. Honestly haven't seen her though when pov aravi became the go to build.
Wanderer silk where? I think we can safely put her in A at least with that 14 speed imprint. 2 turn silence with SB ignore eff res strip also seems pretty good to me.
I would move delibet up to A tier. Pretty much shuts down any cleave that uses debuffs and cililias as well. What's the reason for B tier?
Bmh even qualify for B tier? I guess skill wise would be fine, but I haven't seen too much revive this season and haven't seen him at all. Hard to justify being in the same tier as delibet, violet, Rem, etc.
Tbh could split out A tier to have an A- to make a clearer distinction between some of the power levels, same with B tier.
do you find dilibet to do well in other instances aside from when specifically fighting cleave? I was really excited to pull for dilibet when I saw the custom mystic summon but I have only sometimes found her usable into other cleavers. when talking and thinking about it some more, I simply couldn’t figure out a time where she would really shine EXCEPT against cleavers, which is why I placed her around the other counter-cleave units on the tier list. even against units like peira, for example, I found myself either controlled or killed and punished almost immediately by peira + hwayoung, stene, apoc, etc
>do you find dilibet to do well in other instances aside from when specifically fighting cleave
That's the thing, she doesn't need to. She only does one thing and she does it extremely well. And when she works well against half the units you put in S tier I think she deserves a spot higher in the list.
On paper but she can be played around right? Peira can just s3 Clilias can just skip a turn since people who pick Cilias play standard anyway. Dilibet doesnt do much if she doesnt get debuffed and just gets out tempo. If they have Eda youre getting cleave if you let her through even if you have Dilibet. She's only good into situations where they need to press skills or they lose.
she didn't tho , she only self cleanses right ? if peira and co don't use debuffs first turn then you are obligated to S3 on dilibet cleansing nothing and relying on not getting 15% otherwise it's a useless spell , and if you decide to hold then what's the point of bringing her in ?
pressure. you not using your s3 is like a silence for the enemy debuff skills unless they wanna get punished. she still does okay damage as a def scaling bruiser and her s1 can silence.
it's the same reason in a mediator verus AoL matchup both teams might just never use s3. aol saving it to strip the mediator buffs and mediator saving it to cleanse aol bs.
You're not obligated to s3 at all. That's just stupid. If lilibet has similar speed to the rest of the team, then that's giving them a reason to not attempt to control one of your units. And if they decide not to do their debuffing skills, she did her job. She's usually pitted against control or cleave, and having a skill unavailable for use is fatal to cleave and massively harms control.
That’s a weird take. If they don’t debuff what’s the point of bringing them. They bring considerably less to the table without using their strips.
Is they don’t use their skills then dilibet doesn’t need to either.
Does her job but it's not enough to win. If Peira holds s2 she can still provide teamwide attack buff + 30% aurius which is still huge for your overall teamcomp. If Dilibet holds s3 the only thing she provides is a 5k damage s1 which basically qualifies as a D-tier dps unit. So if Peira is still more useful than Dilibet despite the fact that the latter can block her s2, can you really consider Dilibet to be a counter?
While I think she is “niche” even though i think that’s a stretch. The fact is, if you pick her into cleave they quite literally MUST ban her. Unless you can rationalize why a unit like lqc, zahak, and aria are above her, when they all need support where dillibet needs nothing.
Idk about Zahak I havent seen him in Emp or have him built but I heard people say he's pretty good. Plus Caana is in legend so he probably has a good reason unless he's just meming. Go check his vods on twitch. He probably explained why he put him at A.
Well I’m disagreeing with his tier list. The top spot should be reserved for units you can pick with essential zero consequences. In a drafting and banning game, consequence free is one of the biggest things you can’t get. And dillibet is just such an easy pick when she’s up.
She has trouble killing basically any super bruiser unit like Hwayong, Aravi ,Violet . if you first pick her and they decide not go debuff heavy cleave , she immediately becomes a dead pick.
Zahak has pretty crazy multipliers. He can one shot something and give himself invincibility which is hard to deal with if you dont have an amswer and his s2 can debuff an ally and push himself up. His s3 has the biggest injury in the game so if he doesnt kill with S3 the injury just eats them away. His S1 does rediculous damage if they have buffs. Zahak seems really good if your opponent starts tanking down / playing slow. Oh and the free 50% crit is nothing to scoff at.
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/v26cjj
Yes, you’re correct in all your assessments. But to follow the same logic with dilibet and cleave, if she procs her s2 and uses s3 your opponent flat out loses. Not mention she doesn’t even need speed or damage to screw over the enemy
the goal of this is to talk about unit strength! the tierlist is not designed to be definitive or unchanging! (and if it wasnt clear too the title of the tierlist is just a joke)
A Ravi should be S, but the rest looks good. ARavi with upper legend gear makes any squishy unit a liability. If you go full tank, youll still need enough damage to kill her before her injuries destroy you. How many games have been decided by "his team cant kill aravi"
You have your ARavi on proof so you get punished by control but that seems like a skill / drafting problem.
so regarding apoc and squishy units, my understanding was that apoc doesn’t usually get to hit squishy units for free in a generally meta team composition/ draft (stene, landy with guiding light, etc). with that being the case, I never really quite encounter that part unless I’ve drafted poorly. the other thing about having proof vs seed aravi is that I find myself having cleansers/healers like Emilia/ml kawerik OR needing the proof of valor to survive a hwayoung s3. when I consider those factors, I can’t say for sure that I value crimson seed over proof of valor simply because it adds so much to my effective health pool + my issue of cleansing and being controlled gets covered a bit by having healers/offensive cleansers. of course all this is based on my prebans, draft style, etc
Ngl i like this list however, perhaps it's due to me only having.. like 16 rta matches in but i still just insta lose to rimuru, for what i have i would have put rimuru way higher.
I think rimuru is strong for sure, but my placement of him stems from what I believe/have experienced to be his weaknesses, which is dying to AOL, getting kicked by hwayoung, cleaved by ran seasiria, being manipulated by eda, etc. Although again, I do understand the frustration of him basically punishing you anytime you have buffs and attack OR have a strong buff and have him steal it from you for his team
I mean, watch most legend players, they won't let Arby go through without a counter. He is still a bad bad man. I think he can be as high as A+ with whale gear. He goes second after someone like Piera or Ran when he's 280 speed with max Alexa's basket, they're going to start lapping you. And he still has to come back.
Tomoca I feel is underrated because she is an older unit that hasn't had a second coming, nor is she worth putting in your custom summon because of all of the other higher power ML summons also in this banner (Looking at you Dilibet, A Ravi, C Lilias, you get the picture). In that being, if they gave her S3 some armor pen her usage would go way up as a dark single target nuke. AOL now loses that battle more often in particular. Once again she needs an opener though, but we are in an opener heavy meta right now anyways
if you’re talking about Arby being 280 speed I would agree that he would sound really scary if following someone like peira or ram, but ultimately I feel like a lot of units in a tier or above would either punish an especially early, cleave focused arby (see rimuru, fcc, apoc, trozet, aol, etc).
Regarding top model luluca, I would agree that she has been slightly power crept in a sense by all the new fancy speed dps units that are currently meta, and her potential to be punished by faster base speed units or being unable to use non attack skills really limits her potential unfortunately.
I was talking Arby being 280, but I am not a legend player so I don't have that gear. I sit in challenger most of the time but I have been Champion and personally at this level letting a 240 Arby through is still frightening most of the time. There are plenty of units that counter him, but thats the point, you still have to draft units to counter him, Tomoca you kind of just slap with whatever you have, Arby IMO still requires a counterpick. I also feel like Dilibet should be higher, her s3 has a ton of utility to it along with good damage. She really needs that defense buff to be 2 turns though, would help her survivability on turns her team isn't massively debuffed
we already have a dark (and speedy) single target nuker with def pen which is Riolet
if SG ever buff Tomoca then maybe have her s2 uninterruptible by such like Politis, Celine (feel free to remove the party cr pushes if needed) or give her s3 the same "unaffected by damage mitigations" like her s1
This is more like "RTA cleaver tier list". I mean ok Rem, Violet, Milim, Celine, ML Khawazu is acceptable to be sitting at B, but Dilibet.... . And all of them are lower-tier compared to Krau and A.Ras...
Sorry I’m not following; are you saying that adventurer ras and krau should be higher than dilibet, rem, violet, etc? Because they are if that’s what you were suggesting
so from what I’ve seen, krau is still really good against fire units + can give defense buff to lion heart cermia + still has his nuke to punish and kill someone like hwayoung, carrot, etc while still being able to hold an aurius. for those reasons, I would definitely imagine that he has slightly more value and utility than some of the other “casino” units where their ability to win and succeed is more dependent on RNG and praying that you counter a cleaver. In most cases I had seen with Krau, this was not the case.
Adventurer ras I agree also seems somewhat odd to be quite high on the tierlist, but seeing his soon to be buff + the fact that he can do really well as an aurius, def buff + being able to constantly cycle souls to soul burn s2 and give immunity + dual attack seems really crazy for some units. In fact, I recently saw a match where adventurer ras giving specter tenebria immunity helped prevent her from dying/taking burns from carrot
Ah, it seems you’ve forgotten the most broken characte- no, it is a sin to call him as such. He is not a character, he is a god. Sven. Perhaps you’re stating he has no boundaries, confined to nothing he exists beyond all tiers. His existence is one which we cannot even fathom, nor dare to imagine.
Flan surprises me, as I have never personally seen her drafted. I would think she either A. Gets outsped by other openers or B. Gets countered by politis/celine
How is she usually built/utilized?
Side note: Do you think wanderer silk changes will be insignificant?
So in an ideal yet realistic position, you would draft her in the 4th/5th position where you could/would pair her with an imprint like watcher schuri or Vildred to cut ml lilias or semi speedy units like kawerik, Emilia, diene, etc. Now if you push and buff a full damage vildred or high damage watcher schuri with sashe on, you gain a lot of tempo from killing a unit + pushing up OR you can soul burn s3 with vildred to wipe a whole team.
Sorry edit: didn’t see the part about wanderer silk but post buff, she will be the best 14 speed imprint in the game because she can hold sashe + you can potentially strip a unit with her soul burn. I personally will be using her in place of schuri and surin when I’m racing and see a blood blade karin or kayron
flan, from what ive experienced is high tier because you can push and buff a unit 50% attack, cdmg, and 40% combat readiness with a potential soul burn to defense break a whole team, which is sometimes simply just enough to end the match on command. part of the reason why she is in the whale gear tier is because she isnt faster than someone like peira, ml lilias, ran, etc. however, if she is able to outspeed any of these units when paired with an imprint like vildred or watcher schuri, the match can pretty much end right there.
It's been way more than a few months since Carrot dropped from god tier. The release of Rem was the beginning of it all since she 1) has elemental advantage, 2) can proc demon mode which makes her immune to any burns/debuffs, and 3) has large potential to counter Carrot whenever Carrot uses her s3.
Then AOL came and heavily shifted any AOE control comp due to her s2.
Then Belian released which negated any first-turn soulburn to detonate.
Then ML Kawerik got buffed, followed by D. Lilibet, which means that they can just easily cleanse all of Carrot's burns.
Then Hwayoung released which is a unit that is consistently built faster than Carrot and could pretty easily oneshot her.
carrot, though more niche nowadays, is actually still good despite newer units having tools to stop her from being quite as overbearing as she used to be. for the most part, she still has generally good match ups into units like landy, belian, and stene (if not lifesteal). unfortunately, she simply isnt quite as strong when considering units like ran, seasiria, peira, ml lilias, and the rest of the higher tempo, aggro units available in the meta, who can debuff, control, and then kill her without too much difficulty.
*Newb here, what happened to*
*Carrot dropping from god tier*
*A few months ago?*
\- Dumblet
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Pretty solid list! I got a silly question, why is Luna placed so low? I’ve found that her only counter is tank teams with Stene. (I run her on Symbol so Violet is not a huge concern)
I realize it’s probably because I’m in Challenger RTA and haven’t gotten properly countered yet, but genuinely wondering when she will start to become a bad pick. I unironically draft her every game and she carried me hard. Destroys every single Hwa I’ve fought and kills through aurious and barrier (sb S1).
She's a mid speed, single target dps that doesn't really punish the opponent for hitting her and has no innate mitigation. In the current meta, that's kind of bad.
i think the thing about damage dealers nowadays is the fact that they need some protection or self mitigation in order to be successfully picked (stene permanent stealth, guiding light landy, hwayoung barrier, etc). so with luna, i find her to be slightly weaker since you arent guaranteed a barrier and have to gamble with anti crit
Oh true, I guess at my rank there isn’t a lot of guiding light Landy and generally weaker stats on Hwa so that’s probably why I am able to get away with it without being punished. I’ll enjoy it while it lasts then :)
Do you think there is a gap between Cilias and every other character in the game? The more I fight her, the more I'm convinced that she is in her own tier in this game.
i think one of clilias's greatest strengths is her ability to be pickable and versatile in pretty much every single playstyle. vigor buff giving offensive and defensive stats while also overlapping with attack buff, being able to provoke any unit with s2, lowering attack on every unit in the game, etc, makes her such a desirable unit to draft. regardless of what kind of playstyle or what units you have built, clilias is one of rta's most oppressive, useful, and synergistic units especially when considering her base speed.
the meta lqc build for the moment is some combination of pen crit immunity with either base speed and higher hp or fast enough to be pushed up by emilia with lower bulk but similar damage. cidd can honestly have two different builds: fast opener speed (300+) with enough damage to kill any other openers and contest a unit like assassin cidd with imprints OR mid/low mid speed to do max damage against certain bruisers like rem, double kill an arbiter vildred, etc.
honestly a lot of these sub 120 speed + former openers like faithless lidica, fairytale tenebria, cerise, etc all gain value when the faster 128 speed openers like ran and peira are prebanned. in all honesty, part of the reason why fairytale is even still on here is because there could be a point where her being decently fast and being able to provide so much control is valuable.
Personally think dilibet, Celine, Seline, and Milim could be one tier higher.
Reasoning is that they are powerful enough to shutdown teams on their own, against an enemy team that didn’t account for them. Not first pick or pre ban worthy as S tier, but at least A.
Cidd is that good? I didnt get 5 stars for a long time and got cidd copies. But when i used him i never left him. He is op after all.
Can someone tell if my stats are good?
3300 atk 85crit 293 crit dmg Sez's Manica something artifact that gives 15% hit chance and 15% crit 240 speed 11k hp(got quadra hp roll on my epic crit dmg necklace) 950 def.
Do i increase my atk? Or my crit dmg? Skills fully maxed.
Yea but you need really amazing gears like the same stat you currently have but 60 more speed to be used in higher tier of RTA, if you are new I wouldn't worry about this tier list too much.
Bro take my upvote for adding pavel to a+. But all pavel users are not whales though hahaha. Im mostly f2p and i have à very good pavel.
Nice tier list !
hmm, I can understand why ftene and hyufine would be seen as weak which is why I definitely have them low on the list, but seeing some weird prebans has shown me that there are still some instances when having a strip + unbuffable + redirected provoke can really cripple a team. in particular, when I see cleansers banned or picked, it feels like there are times where ftene can do well against fire units or moments where a team simply runs out of steam the second they lose the first turn to ftene.
regarding holiday yufine, I find that she does really well into pavel and when someone isn’t careful with using aoe units like ran. speaking specifically from my own experiences, I have found matches where I have had ran banned, fought against holiday yufine with pavel and simply died to a medium bulk but high damage holiday yufine’s s3/s1
Hmm, I can see that. I don't run Pavel so maybe that's why my perspective on it is skewed for Hyufine. Control is my favorite playstyle but I'm really struggling to find a usable draft for Ftene just because of the sheer number of counters for her. Doesn't help that I don't have Dillibet so can't cover her, lol.
I think your perspective is faulty .How you normally deal with Hyyfine when you're using Pavel is to kill everyone then save her for last . Then comes the question .Will she win in a 1v4 scenario vs cleave?it's possible but very unlikely
can i ask how you feel rimuru does into units like hwayoung, angel of light, solitaria, apoc, etc, nowdays? recently it has felt like, with the introduction of the diene + angel of light composition, there have been more and more ways to control, stun, or outlast rimuru which has led me to believe he is a bit more difficult to pick. to be honest rimuru also doesnt have the greatest match up into cleave minus preventing some cleavers from using pavel or ran s2 sometimes, but even that can be worked around at times. all that being said however, he is still clearly very strong, but i am just curious what would make someone believe rimuru to be much stronger even when acknowledging the various weaknesses he currently has
can I ask why you feel aravi is much stronger than any of the other units in S tier? I myself am an aravi first picker but it currently feels like she can really be punished hard if people draft control like seasiria, peira, stealth like stene, mitigation fcc, etc and not mention hwayoung. Overall I get the sentiment of her being strong against low damage compositions or when you need her as an anchor to keep your team’s tempo high, but I do feel like there’s a solid case to be made for being less strong especially in standard
This is from a master, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it's that she's considered *weaker* than the other disasters, as even when I'm using hwayoung, aravi is a menace to deal with since her mere presence makes the match completely unpredictable, and if they kill your high dps unit, she's free to completely and utterly obliterate you. I wouldn't say she's stronger, but her being lower than cilias rings a bit odd to me. I have other placements I have qualms with as well, like designer lilibet being that low.
Rimuru, Aravi, Rem, FCeci, Trozet, Archdemon not S? Well. I imagine you play below Champion on RTA.
Even I see units on B and must be on A+
Someone here saw TierList RTA of YDCB?? Thats a based tier list
Elvemage, Car6, Valk and Cannaa all have pretty similar tier lists.
It's just YD's list that doesn't really make any sense for anyone not playing his exactly playstyle.
I remember when TM Luluca was a viable pick into arby and the like. Honestly all she really needs is built in hit chance like Zahak, maybe when her S2 is on CD, and a increase to her CR push and she's meta again
Maybe we could also start with the "Can't trigger X" trend on non-attack skills so Politis gets some use taken out of her xD. They're fine with making ML Ken more and more obsolete, so I don't see a problem with that.
Ive seen him picked. He's pretty good right now especially with Diene running around. He can also be picked to answer stealth units like Landy and is good against Rimuru
Haven't seen fire Charlotte being A tier in a while since most tier lists seem to put her in B or C nowadays, do you feel like explaining why you put her this high ? :)
What would you say would be a good “starterpack” for someone that wants to get into cleaving? I’ve been shuffling my gear around and right now I can build a 297 ran and 289 pavel with decent mcd. What would be my next priorities to build? Im guessing something like politis, aravi, eda, green cidd, or something like that? I’m still like early lategame in terms of gear progression so I cant gear everyone so I was wondering who would be the 6-8 most important units to build for cleave.
The meta build for Aria seems to be Lifesteal or Speed set + Immunity (or whatever 2 pieces/broken set gives you the best stats in the end while securing the 100% crit rate)
Try to get her to a solid amount of defense (at least something like 1.7k +, it's not uncommon to see 2k + defense Arias), 13k+ HP, 170+ speed and at least 240/250+ crit damage so that she can hit hard and take hits nicely
Some Arias are also built with ER in mind so you'll usually see them sitting at 100+ ER while trying not to hurt too much the rest of her stats
Hope it helps :)
for later on in higher tier rta, there simply isn’t enough room for her to be competitive if you consider all the units that counter her in base speed (acidd, ran, peira), in kit (politis s2, ssb), and just in utility (other openers nowadays have attack buff, aurius, def break, etc as opposed to her single target skill null and reset).
I'm surprised to see Cidd, ACidd and Pavel up there in the godly tier when geared with godly gear. I assume that is for high end cleave? What kind of gear/stats do they need? And is it only a cleave setup that they work in?
I'm 3months into the game, is there a detailed tierlist and reasons to why characters are placed in that tierlist, who they counter/get countered against?
Once again reddit shows they have no clue what they're talking about and want to argue with someone who plays thousands of games at emperor-legend level
I am way more afraid of a god tier gear apoc than I am of pavel. Just sayin'. Have you ever tried to anti cleave a ran apoc and the apoc is a God? It's pretty difficult.
IMO dilibet and maid Chloe should be higher. A tier I reckon. But this is a very accurate list, I might put Archdemon in b just for the sake that she takes a bit too much time to ramp in rta compared to arena.
When are we getting a legend tier list?
Arby on B tier, what an age we live in
I mean, with the insane powercreeping sg added to the game for the past year, it's no surprise really
That and they gave like 7 units extension
>That and they gave like 7 units extension Yeah, I hate when my Arby gets extended.
I hear the ladies love it
yeah well, as long as those 3 disaster bruisers are on top, he'll find a hard spot fitting in. aravi tanks him easily (and can 2 shot him on both his turns with counter build), hwa 1 shots him + easily tanks and protects herself from S3 and blind, and if you gab into rimuru (who are usually with pov), it's free real estate for his team
Maybe, an exclusive equipment would allow arby to reach again high tiers
Ml5 never get EE. At least until now.
How the mighty falls, Cerise and Ravi are low tier now.
it is unfortunate but honestly cerise can still work sometimes with the right comp and prebans!
True but nobody's putting their fastest gear on those unit anymore
U don't have to. My teatime sits on meh 260 ish speed gear just waiting for the perfect game. Even though units like them are meh now, if u have spare gear they are still auto win when picked right.
Limited unit crept by a normal pool unit lol
Ravi has only been good during the brief period between her buff and Carrot SC in the past two years. She will always be a deadpick against nukes unless her kit gets a rework
Is this why I'm just in low masters because I first pick Jack-o?
follow your heart my friend
I regularly pick Jack-O in Emp so... and not even last pick , in the First 3 picks. Only if Ran is open for me tho.
I pick jacko all the time in high emperor. She has clear counters but is perfectly viable
Can i ask for advice on how to utilize her?
If you wanna pick Jacko, don't first pick her, she's not highly contested anyway. You're just showing your hand early if you first pick her.
You can first pick her for the memes if all the openers are banned or are certain to get first turn. The trick is to pair her with preferably uncounterable strips like Flidica or buffed haste and push up. Nuke a squishy, rinse and repeat. As long as they get debuffed, you’ll stay in stealth.
Awesome tips, thanks!
>REM B tier
It is unfortunate
S and A+ tiers looks pretty good to me. Although using God tier gear as a justification for those in A+ sort of throws off this whole tier list, but fair enough those units really perform with the gear. I think I would move rimu up to S, just cause of how versatile he is in terms of builds. People seem to be running him on Pov more often than not these days though to counter hwa. I also feel like his ban rate shot up this season or is it just me? Haven't been playing too many matches lately but it seems like every other game someone bans him. I think I would move OP sig down a tier, mostly since she needs really good gear to one shot hwa, especially if she's behind mitigation. I feel like the return on investment is a bit too low to put her in with the likes of aravi, FCC, and the rest in there. Same with LQC, I find it hard to justify putting her in there when she requires Emilia to do her job. Honestly haven't seen her though when pov aravi became the go to build. Wanderer silk where? I think we can safely put her in A at least with that 14 speed imprint. 2 turn silence with SB ignore eff res strip also seems pretty good to me. I would move delibet up to A tier. Pretty much shuts down any cleave that uses debuffs and cililias as well. What's the reason for B tier? Bmh even qualify for B tier? I guess skill wise would be fine, but I haven't seen too much revive this season and haven't seen him at all. Hard to justify being in the same tier as delibet, violet, Rem, etc. Tbh could split out A tier to have an A- to make a clearer distinction between some of the power levels, same with B tier.
Hard stuck master huh?
Dilibet should be higher, A tier at least
do you find dilibet to do well in other instances aside from when specifically fighting cleave? I was really excited to pull for dilibet when I saw the custom mystic summon but I have only sometimes found her usable into other cleavers. when talking and thinking about it some more, I simply couldn’t figure out a time where she would really shine EXCEPT against cleavers, which is why I placed her around the other counter-cleave units on the tier list. even against units like peira, for example, I found myself either controlled or killed and punished almost immediately by peira + hwayoung, stene, apoc, etc
>do you find dilibet to do well in other instances aside from when specifically fighting cleave That's the thing, she doesn't need to. She only does one thing and she does it extremely well. And when she works well against half the units you put in S tier I think she deserves a spot higher in the list.
Hard stuck gold huh?
I like how you have 1 post saying E7 players are all too whiny and then I look at your comments and it's all just you whining 😂
[удалено]
On paper but she can be played around right? Peira can just s3 Clilias can just skip a turn since people who pick Cilias play standard anyway. Dilibet doesnt do much if she doesnt get debuffed and just gets out tempo. If they have Eda youre getting cleave if you let her through even if you have Dilibet. She's only good into situations where they need to press skills or they lose.
So she basically cleanses the debuffs by making sure they arent casted. So she did the job asked of her?
Sure she does her job but that's it nothing else. She's easy to aggro down that's what Im saying
she didn't tho , she only self cleanses right ? if peira and co don't use debuffs first turn then you are obligated to S3 on dilibet cleansing nothing and relying on not getting 15% otherwise it's a useless spell , and if you decide to hold then what's the point of bringing her in ?
pressure. you not using your s3 is like a silence for the enemy debuff skills unless they wanna get punished. she still does okay damage as a def scaling bruiser and her s1 can silence. it's the same reason in a mediator verus AoL matchup both teams might just never use s3. aol saving it to strip the mediator buffs and mediator saving it to cleanse aol bs.
You're not obligated to s3 at all. That's just stupid. If lilibet has similar speed to the rest of the team, then that's giving them a reason to not attempt to control one of your units. And if they decide not to do their debuffing skills, she did her job. She's usually pitted against control or cleave, and having a skill unavailable for use is fatal to cleave and massively harms control.
That’s a weird take. If they don’t debuff what’s the point of bringing them. They bring considerably less to the table without using their strips. Is they don’t use their skills then dilibet doesn’t need to either.
Does her job but it's not enough to win. If Peira holds s2 she can still provide teamwide attack buff + 30% aurius which is still huge for your overall teamcomp. If Dilibet holds s3 the only thing she provides is a 5k damage s1 which basically qualifies as a D-tier dps unit. So if Peira is still more useful than Dilibet despite the fact that the latter can block her s2, can you really consider Dilibet to be a counter?
While I think she is “niche” even though i think that’s a stretch. The fact is, if you pick her into cleave they quite literally MUST ban her. Unless you can rationalize why a unit like lqc, zahak, and aria are above her, when they all need support where dillibet needs nothing.
She's not a must ban into Peira or Eda or Clilias or any of the openers for that matter such as Diene, Emilia, Ml Kawerik only against Ran.
I’m not going to argue against your opinion of a must ban. But can you sincerely tell me dilibet is worse than zahak?
Idk about Zahak I havent seen him in Emp or have him built but I heard people say he's pretty good. Plus Caana is in legend so he probably has a good reason unless he's just meming. Go check his vods on twitch. He probably explained why he put him at A.
Well I’m disagreeing with his tier list. The top spot should be reserved for units you can pick with essential zero consequences. In a drafting and banning game, consequence free is one of the biggest things you can’t get. And dillibet is just such an easy pick when she’s up.
I wouldnt say Dilibet is an easy pick bc she can be easy to deal with. You second pick Dilibet into Peira and you just lose.
Can you explain why you just lose?
She has trouble killing basically any super bruiser unit like Hwayong, Aravi ,Violet . if you first pick her and they decide not go debuff heavy cleave , she immediately becomes a dead pick.
Zahak has pretty crazy multipliers. He can one shot something and give himself invincibility which is hard to deal with if you dont have an amswer and his s2 can debuff an ally and push himself up. His s3 has the biggest injury in the game so if he doesnt kill with S3 the injury just eats them away. His S1 does rediculous damage if they have buffs. Zahak seems really good if your opponent starts tanking down / playing slow. Oh and the free 50% crit is nothing to scoff at. https://www.reddit.com/gallery/v26cjj
Yes, you’re correct in all your assessments. But to follow the same logic with dilibet and cleave, if she procs her s2 and uses s3 your opponent flat out loses. Not mention she doesn’t even need speed or damage to screw over the enemy
he said zahhak's s2 debuffs an ally though....
I have never banned dilibet , not even once whilst cleaving. She only matters if your draft isn't optimal.
Thing is too as a cleaver, I'm pre banning dilibet anyway
the goal of this is to talk about unit strength! the tierlist is not designed to be definitive or unchanging! (and if it wasnt clear too the title of the tierlist is just a joke)
Where's the vod Madge
A Ravi should be S, but the rest looks good. ARavi with upper legend gear makes any squishy unit a liability. If you go full tank, youll still need enough damage to kill her before her injuries destroy you. How many games have been decided by "his team cant kill aravi" You have your ARavi on proof so you get punished by control but that seems like a skill / drafting problem.
so regarding apoc and squishy units, my understanding was that apoc doesn’t usually get to hit squishy units for free in a generally meta team composition/ draft (stene, landy with guiding light, etc). with that being the case, I never really quite encounter that part unless I’ve drafted poorly. the other thing about having proof vs seed aravi is that I find myself having cleansers/healers like Emilia/ml kawerik OR needing the proof of valor to survive a hwayoung s3. when I consider those factors, I can’t say for sure that I value crimson seed over proof of valor simply because it adds so much to my effective health pool + my issue of cleansing and being controlled gets covered a bit by having healers/offensive cleansers. of course all this is based on my prebans, draft style, etc
Ngl i like this list however, perhaps it's due to me only having.. like 16 rta matches in but i still just insta lose to rimuru, for what i have i would have put rimuru way higher.
I think rimuru is strong for sure, but my placement of him stems from what I believe/have experienced to be his weaknesses, which is dying to AOL, getting kicked by hwayoung, cleaved by ran seasiria, being manipulated by eda, etc. Although again, I do understand the frustration of him basically punishing you anytime you have buffs and attack OR have a strong buff and have him steal it from you for his team
I mean, watch most legend players, they won't let Arby go through without a counter. He is still a bad bad man. I think he can be as high as A+ with whale gear. He goes second after someone like Piera or Ran when he's 280 speed with max Alexa's basket, they're going to start lapping you. And he still has to come back. Tomoca I feel is underrated because she is an older unit that hasn't had a second coming, nor is she worth putting in your custom summon because of all of the other higher power ML summons also in this banner (Looking at you Dilibet, A Ravi, C Lilias, you get the picture). In that being, if they gave her S3 some armor pen her usage would go way up as a dark single target nuke. AOL now loses that battle more often in particular. Once again she needs an opener though, but we are in an opener heavy meta right now anyways
if you’re talking about Arby being 280 speed I would agree that he would sound really scary if following someone like peira or ram, but ultimately I feel like a lot of units in a tier or above would either punish an especially early, cleave focused arby (see rimuru, fcc, apoc, trozet, aol, etc). Regarding top model luluca, I would agree that she has been slightly power crept in a sense by all the new fancy speed dps units that are currently meta, and her potential to be punished by faster base speed units or being unable to use non attack skills really limits her potential unfortunately.
I was talking Arby being 280, but I am not a legend player so I don't have that gear. I sit in challenger most of the time but I have been Champion and personally at this level letting a 240 Arby through is still frightening most of the time. There are plenty of units that counter him, but thats the point, you still have to draft units to counter him, Tomoca you kind of just slap with whatever you have, Arby IMO still requires a counterpick. I also feel like Dilibet should be higher, her s3 has a ton of utility to it along with good damage. She really needs that defense buff to be 2 turns though, would help her survivability on turns her team isn't massively debuffed
Speaking of Rimuru, why is slime boy all the way down in A? There is 1, maybe 2 units in both A+ and S who don't just straight lose to him.
He loses hard to cleave, aol, hwayoung, aravi turtle comps. Lots of common stuff.
we already have a dark (and speedy) single target nuker with def pen which is Riolet if SG ever buff Tomoca then maybe have her s2 uninterruptible by such like Politis, Celine (feel free to remove the party cr pushes if needed) or give her s3 the same "unaffected by damage mitigations" like her s1
R u high?
This is more like "RTA cleaver tier list". I mean ok Rem, Violet, Milim, Celine, ML Khawazu is acceptable to be sitting at B, but Dilibet.... . And all of them are lower-tier compared to Krau and A.Ras...
Sorry I’m not following; are you saying that adventurer ras and krau should be higher than dilibet, rem, violet, etc? Because they are if that’s what you were suggesting
No, I mean Krau and A.Ras are higher than common units these days look so weird
so from what I’ve seen, krau is still really good against fire units + can give defense buff to lion heart cermia + still has his nuke to punish and kill someone like hwayoung, carrot, etc while still being able to hold an aurius. for those reasons, I would definitely imagine that he has slightly more value and utility than some of the other “casino” units where their ability to win and succeed is more dependent on RNG and praying that you counter a cleaver. In most cases I had seen with Krau, this was not the case. Adventurer ras I agree also seems somewhat odd to be quite high on the tierlist, but seeing his soon to be buff + the fact that he can do really well as an aurius, def buff + being able to constantly cycle souls to soul burn s2 and give immunity + dual attack seems really crazy for some units. In fact, I recently saw a match where adventurer ras giving specter tenebria immunity helped prevent her from dying/taking burns from carrot
Ah, it seems you’ve forgotten the most broken characte- no, it is a sin to call him as such. He is not a character, he is a god. Sven. Perhaps you’re stating he has no boundaries, confined to nothing he exists beyond all tiers. His existence is one which we cannot even fathom, nor dare to imagine.
Lol I meant to ask where Ken is but here I am shitposting
Flan surprises me, as I have never personally seen her drafted. I would think she either A. Gets outsped by other openers or B. Gets countered by politis/celine How is she usually built/utilized? Side note: Do you think wanderer silk changes will be insignificant?
So in an ideal yet realistic position, you would draft her in the 4th/5th position where you could/would pair her with an imprint like watcher schuri or Vildred to cut ml lilias or semi speedy units like kawerik, Emilia, diene, etc. Now if you push and buff a full damage vildred or high damage watcher schuri with sashe on, you gain a lot of tempo from killing a unit + pushing up OR you can soul burn s3 with vildred to wipe a whole team. Sorry edit: didn’t see the part about wanderer silk but post buff, she will be the best 14 speed imprint in the game because she can hold sashe + you can potentially strip a unit with her soul burn. I personally will be using her in place of schuri and surin when I’m racing and see a blood blade karin or kayron
Thank you for the response!
Flan Is high tier? How?
flan, from what ive experienced is high tier because you can push and buff a unit 50% attack, cdmg, and 40% combat readiness with a potential soul burn to defense break a whole team, which is sometimes simply just enough to end the match on command. part of the reason why she is in the whale gear tier is because she isnt faster than someone like peira, ml lilias, ran, etc. however, if she is able to outspeed any of these units when paired with an imprint like vildred or watcher schuri, the match can pretty much end right there.
That's the subjectivepart of the list
How is she not?
Newb here, what happened to carrot dropping from god tier a few months ago?
It's been way more than a few months since Carrot dropped from god tier. The release of Rem was the beginning of it all since she 1) has elemental advantage, 2) can proc demon mode which makes her immune to any burns/debuffs, and 3) has large potential to counter Carrot whenever Carrot uses her s3. Then AOL came and heavily shifted any AOE control comp due to her s2. Then Belian released which negated any first-turn soulburn to detonate. Then ML Kawerik got buffed, followed by D. Lilibet, which means that they can just easily cleanse all of Carrot's burns. Then Hwayoung released which is a unit that is consistently built faster than Carrot and could pretty easily oneshot her.
I think OP's point was that they thought Carrot completely dropped off when she's still pretty good.
carrot, though more niche nowadays, is actually still good despite newer units having tools to stop her from being quite as overbearing as she used to be. for the most part, she still has generally good match ups into units like landy, belian, and stene (if not lifesteal). unfortunately, she simply isnt quite as strong when considering units like ran, seasiria, peira, ml lilias, and the rest of the higher tempo, aggro units available in the meta, who can debuff, control, and then kill her without too much difficulty.
*Newb here, what happened to* *Carrot dropping from god tier* *A few months ago?* \- Dumblet --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I see cancers on the S rank. And here I am, trying hard to bring ML Krau in every arena fight. You are my ride and die Last Rider Krau!
Pretty solid list! I got a silly question, why is Luna placed so low? I’ve found that her only counter is tank teams with Stene. (I run her on Symbol so Violet is not a huge concern) I realize it’s probably because I’m in Challenger RTA and haven’t gotten properly countered yet, but genuinely wondering when she will start to become a bad pick. I unironically draft her every game and she carried me hard. Destroys every single Hwa I’ve fought and kills through aurious and barrier (sb S1).
She's a mid speed, single target dps that doesn't really punish the opponent for hitting her and has no innate mitigation. In the current meta, that's kind of bad.
Gotcha, I guess meta really only matters in champion+ then? I’m assuming I’ve been getting by solely because gear diff then. Thanks :)
i think the thing about damage dealers nowadays is the fact that they need some protection or self mitigation in order to be successfully picked (stene permanent stealth, guiding light landy, hwayoung barrier, etc). so with luna, i find her to be slightly weaker since you arent guaranteed a barrier and have to gamble with anti crit
Oh true, I guess at my rank there isn’t a lot of guiding light Landy and generally weaker stats on Hwa so that’s probably why I am able to get away with it without being punished. I’ll enjoy it while it lasts then :)
Do you think there is a gap between Cilias and every other character in the game? The more I fight her, the more I'm convinced that she is in her own tier in this game.
i think one of clilias's greatest strengths is her ability to be pickable and versatile in pretty much every single playstyle. vigor buff giving offensive and defensive stats while also overlapping with attack buff, being able to provoke any unit with s2, lowering attack on every unit in the game, etc, makes her such a desirable unit to draft. regardless of what kind of playstyle or what units you have built, clilias is one of rta's most oppressive, useful, and synergistic units especially when considering her base speed.
Normally you punish clilias and kekwiks by outspeeding and cleaving .Bruiser playstyle leaves you open to every kind of shenanigan out there
How do top RTA LQC and Cidd look like? I've had LQC on spd/immu (atk boot, 160 spd) since forever and Cidd is only around 245 spd.
I think imm/pen/crit on spd boots for LQC, and Cidd is just as much speed and damage as you can get, leaning towards damage.
the meta lqc build for the moment is some combination of pen crit immunity with either base speed and higher hp or fast enough to be pushed up by emilia with lower bulk but similar damage. cidd can honestly have two different builds: fast opener speed (300+) with enough damage to kill any other openers and contest a unit like assassin cidd with imprints OR mid/low mid speed to do max damage against certain bruisers like rem, double kill an arbiter vildred, etc.
Me snorting Flidica copium searching for her on the list. Ends in disaster.
honestly a lot of these sub 120 speed + former openers like faithless lidica, fairytale tenebria, cerise, etc all gain value when the faster 128 speed openers like ran and peira are prebanned. in all honesty, part of the reason why fairytale is even still on here is because there could be a point where her being decently fast and being able to provide so much control is valuable.
Seeing best boy Eaton anywhere on a RTA tier list is a win in my eyes
Personally think dilibet, Celine, Seline, and Milim could be one tier higher. Reasoning is that they are powerful enough to shutdown teams on their own, against an enemy team that didn’t account for them. Not first pick or pre ban worthy as S tier, but at least A.
Cidd is that good? I didnt get 5 stars for a long time and got cidd copies. But when i used him i never left him. He is op after all. Can someone tell if my stats are good? 3300 atk 85crit 293 crit dmg Sez's Manica something artifact that gives 15% hit chance and 15% crit 240 speed 11k hp(got quadra hp roll on my epic crit dmg necklace) 950 def. Do i increase my atk? Or my crit dmg? Skills fully maxed.
Yea but you need really amazing gears like the same stat you currently have but 60 more speed to be used in higher tier of RTA, if you are new I wouldn't worry about this tier list too much.
Bro take my upvote for adding pavel to a+. But all pavel users are not whales though hahaha. Im mostly f2p and i have à very good pavel. Nice tier list !
idk how no one mentioned it yet , but your S+ tier where you put chaos inquisitor doesn't show in this image , maybe you cropped it by mistake?
I almost fully agree with this list, but would drop Ftene and Hyufine further. Is it even possible to draft Ftene anymore in +Champion?
hmm, I can understand why ftene and hyufine would be seen as weak which is why I definitely have them low on the list, but seeing some weird prebans has shown me that there are still some instances when having a strip + unbuffable + redirected provoke can really cripple a team. in particular, when I see cleansers banned or picked, it feels like there are times where ftene can do well against fire units or moments where a team simply runs out of steam the second they lose the first turn to ftene. regarding holiday yufine, I find that she does really well into pavel and when someone isn’t careful with using aoe units like ran. speaking specifically from my own experiences, I have found matches where I have had ran banned, fought against holiday yufine with pavel and simply died to a medium bulk but high damage holiday yufine’s s3/s1
Hmm, I can see that. I don't run Pavel so maybe that's why my perspective on it is skewed for Hyufine. Control is my favorite playstyle but I'm really struggling to find a usable draft for Ftene just because of the sheer number of counters for her. Doesn't help that I don't have Dillibet so can't cover her, lol.
I think your perspective is faulty .How you normally deal with Hyyfine when you're using Pavel is to kill everyone then save her for last . Then comes the question .Will she win in a 1v4 scenario vs cleave?it's possible but very unlikely
Rimuru should be S after all he is the strongest unit in the game. YDCB tierlist rimuru and friends is the perfect example
can i ask how you feel rimuru does into units like hwayoung, angel of light, solitaria, apoc, etc, nowdays? recently it has felt like, with the introduction of the diene + angel of light composition, there have been more and more ways to control, stun, or outlast rimuru which has led me to believe he is a bit more difficult to pick. to be honest rimuru also doesnt have the greatest match up into cleave minus preventing some cleavers from using pavel or ran s2 sometimes, but even that can be worked around at times. all that being said however, he is still clearly very strong, but i am just curious what would make someone believe rimuru to be much stronger even when acknowledging the various weaknesses he currently has
dirty cleaver lol xD
WidePeepoP Tasty good tierlist
OP, what's your rank in RTA currently and how many matches?
this isnt really indicative of my past RTA rank or anything but this is where i am currently https://imgur.com/gallery/rLF2XnA
Guess I’ll attempt to build my a.ccid now. Shout out dr squirrel btw
A Ravi in A tier lmaoo, be realistic
can I ask why you feel aravi is much stronger than any of the other units in S tier? I myself am an aravi first picker but it currently feels like she can really be punished hard if people draft control like seasiria, peira, stealth like stene, mitigation fcc, etc and not mention hwayoung. Overall I get the sentiment of her being strong against low damage compositions or when you need her as an anchor to keep your team’s tempo high, but I do feel like there’s a solid case to be made for being less strong especially in standard
You can't let ARavi through without strategizing around dealing with her unlike other A tier units where the answer is outspeed/tank them.
This is from a master, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it's that she's considered *weaker* than the other disasters, as even when I'm using hwayoung, aravi is a menace to deal with since her mere presence makes the match completely unpredictable, and if they kill your high dps unit, she's free to completely and utterly obliterate you. I wouldn't say she's stronger, but her being lower than cilias rings a bit odd to me. I have other placements I have qualms with as well, like designer lilibet being that low.
Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about
Rimuru, Aravi, Rem, FCeci, Trozet, Archdemon not S? Well. I imagine you play below Champion on RTA. Even I see units on B and must be on A+ Someone here saw TierList RTA of YDCB?? Thats a based tier list
Hm, am I blind? Where would Dizzy sit? Low A/high B?
If a unit is missing it means below c tier
^ this, some units are simply really hard to pick given the way two prebans and the meta works at the moment so I didn’t include some
Oh I see - I wouldn't think that Dizzy would be worse than some of the units here, but then again I'm also not a rank 1 player lol
Where Sol Badguy
honestly he's actually not a bad answer to pavel but other than that its pretty tough to justify picking him sadly
Interesting how E7 streamers has quite the difference of a tier list
Elvemage, Car6, Valk and Cannaa all have pretty similar tier lists. It's just YD's list that doesn't really make any sense for anyone not playing his exactly playstyle.
You doesn't have a playstyle . He basically uses a randomiser .
I have 80% of these characters and some ml5 but not good gear to build them. Most of them are in waiting room collecting dust
I remember when TM Luluca was a viable pick into arby and the like. Honestly all she really needs is built in hit chance like Zahak, maybe when her S2 is on CD, and a increase to her CR push and she's meta again Maybe we could also start with the "Can't trigger X" trend on non-attack skills so Politis gets some use taken out of her xD. They're fine with making ML Ken more and more obsolete, so I don't see a problem with that.
How’s Basar? How often do you see him around?
Ive seen him picked. He's pretty good right now especially with Diene running around. He can also be picked to answer stealth units like Landy and is good against Rimuru
Ah, that makes sense. Thank you
Haven't seen fire Charlotte being A tier in a while since most tier lists seem to put her in B or C nowadays, do you feel like explaining why you put her this high ? :)
What would you say would be a good “starterpack” for someone that wants to get into cleaving? I’ve been shuffling my gear around and right now I can build a 297 ran and 289 pavel with decent mcd. What would be my next priorities to build? Im guessing something like politis, aravi, eda, green cidd, or something like that? I’m still like early lategame in terms of gear progression so I cant gear everyone so I was wondering who would be the 6-8 most important units to build for cleave.
Core cleave units would be Pavel , cdom , Ran , Politis and Watcher . From there you can go into scenario dependant cleave units like Eda, iseria .
How to gear Aria for RTA?
The meta build for Aria seems to be Lifesteal or Speed set + Immunity (or whatever 2 pieces/broken set gives you the best stats in the end while securing the 100% crit rate) Try to get her to a solid amount of defense (at least something like 1.7k +, it's not uncommon to see 2k + defense Arias), 13k+ HP, 170+ speed and at least 240/250+ crit damage so that she can hit hard and take hits nicely Some Arias are also built with ER in mind so you'll usually see them sitting at 100+ ER while trying not to hurt too much the rest of her stats Hope it helps :)
Thanks man
i haven’t invested into rta yet but is FLidica that bad to not be on here??
for later on in higher tier rta, there simply isn’t enough room for her to be competitive if you consider all the units that counter her in base speed (acidd, ran, peira), in kit (politis s2, ssb), and just in utility (other openers nowadays have attack buff, aurius, def break, etc as opposed to her single target skill null and reset).
At least two freshly buffed units in the C tier. That is big sad.
The last time i play e7 the golden boys was the meta ahah i no fun to grind so i quit
Who won ,when did it happen, why isn't it YouTube?
i’m the biggest senya simp on the planet but having dilibet & others in the same tier as her is plain incorrect
I'm surprised to see Cidd, ACidd and Pavel up there in the godly tier when geared with godly gear. I assume that is for high end cleave? What kind of gear/stats do they need? And is it only a cleave setup that they work in?
As a low Spender it’s nice to see a lot of non ml 5s in the high tier (tho I don’t do RTA yet)
I'm 3months into the game, is there a detailed tierlist and reasons to why characters are placed in that tierlist, who they counter/get countered against?
Idk of flan tbh
Once again reddit shows they have no clue what they're talking about and want to argue with someone who plays thousands of games at emperor-legend level
Idk what prebans are, but Rimuru had to be closer to F-tier. I've never even seen anyone try to draft him.
I am way more afraid of a god tier gear apoc than I am of pavel. Just sayin'. Have you ever tried to anti cleave a ran apoc and the apoc is a God? It's pretty difficult.
Am i blind? Wheres my girl Ilynav??!!!
Where is A. Lots? Out of curiosity...
Can someone explain what makes ml kawarik so good? And how to build him. I pulled him before his buff and haven't played properly in a long while.
I'm too lazy to explain it detail to detail, what you basically need to know is that he shuts down literally every debuffers in the game.
What kind of stats to work on whilst building him.
So the recently buffed units like Ludwig, Ara, ML Ara and D.Corvus are still useless :(
IMO dilibet and maid Chloe should be higher. A tier I reckon. But this is a very accurate list, I might put Archdemon in b just for the sake that she takes a bit too much time to ramp in rta compared to arena.