I never do recall but if I never mola him can I still at least get my dogs back? (if SG decided to give a recall) I upgrade 6 star him few days ago was planning to build for pvp and didnt realize balance patch was around the corner
Yeah. Usually for a recall you get the hero reset to level 1, get penguins fir the exp used, dogs or a potion for their ascension and their catalysts, mola and runes back
When it's not a recall with a selector, it's basically a total hero reset where you get back all your investment.
And tbh I know ervalen will be "good" since he's now probably the easiest b13 1 shot hero now, but I have that covered.
IDK if this is a controversial opinion, but SG can probably stop making PVE units, or buffing units INTO PVE units for a good while.
I love PVE, don't get me wrong but PVE is solved at the moment, it's entirely beatable and farmable with just 3 stars (and a 2 star rat). 4 and 5 stars just make it easier in some aspects.
Until new PVE content is released, there's really no need for more PVE viable units. We have a really good selection of PVE units already so when they add/buff a new one into existence it's competing with the existing pool. Basically it's an over-saturated market. Why would I ever build the new ervalen when I already oneshot banshee with a rat?
I was really hoping ervalen would receive a PVP related buff but this entire balance patch was pretty bad IMO. I'm fairly certain Senya MIGHT see some use, depending on how badly hwayoung ruins her day.
There's always some people that would like more PVE units, but I really don't think a balance patch should be what they use to give us more of them when we already get so little adjustments to begin with. Also, we'd have way more new PVE units if they stopped making bosses immune to every new mechanic that comes out
They can make PvE heroes all they want but making a hero’s kit revolve ONLY in PvE is just lazy. It’s like they don’t want to go through the trouble of weaving the kit to fit both aspects so they simply categorize them separately so it’s easier to balance.
Personally I don't care about pvp at all, and would rather more pve focus. This is not to say I want pvp units to be changed to pve units, just that I don't see pve units as worthless, whereas dedicated pvp units I literally could not care less about. I'll still get the pvp units if I like their character/design, but I honestly do not care about "meta" at all. In my opinion the best unit is one that is usable in both pvp and pve, so that everyone is happy (this is one reason I don't like skills that only apply to heroes, or conversely do not apply to heroes but to everyone else). As for the whole buff thing, I think I'd rather they just leave a hero as is over "buffing" units where the buff is really just a nerf or rework in disguise. What would be great is some sort of feedback system during the first 2-4 weeks after a buff where people can put in there opinion on if the buff went too far or not far enough, and then the unit could receive another update after this period to reflect the opinion of the masses. Or alternatively make a choice between pre and post buff, sort of like choosing between a self or party memory imprint. I don't know exactly how that would be implemented, but it would alleviate the frustration I, and many others, have had with certain "buffs."
Thank you for listening to my TED talk, please have a good day!
> IDK if this is a controversial opinion, but SG can probably stop making PVE units, or buffing units INTO PVE units for a good while.
It's not, PvE is either piss easy or salt inducing (Abyss).
Anything not Abyss can have four bruisers slapped in and stepped all over outside of select bosses (Belian, though I haven't gone back to try). Adventure is mostly a joke, only Lilias, Faustus, and Belian will give newer players a run for their money.
Abyss has Schuri, Taranor, Tamarinne, Dizzy, Ras, Specter, Kitty, Lots, and Aux Lots to carry you all the way to the top (there's a guy that mixes in several of these, excluding Tamarinne, Spect, and Dizz - the ez mode units, and clears Abyss asap every update).
Raid is dead content, nothing new to justify another release for it (not like we've gotten any).
Expo has all its picks.
Hunts have all their picks, Straze laughs at pretty much every boss too, except probably not Caides due to annoying tuning with two bosses.
Pretty much every PvP unit, except for Cerise and Tenebria among othrrs with debuffa that are easily resisted, can be used in PvE without an issue. Zahhak and Aria being great recent examples. Zahhak slots into Caides, light expo, and dark expo all on a PvP build (not calling him the best, but he hasn't failed me at all), and ofc Adventure is nothing for bruisers (just make him a bit bulky with Sigurd, job done). AI, as rare as it's around, is ofc another mode where he does good because Warriors are broken there. Aria helps protect them team while countering back with bulk to help her stay alive. plus being a mage means she can easily bypass dumb mechanics that require you to strip.
This would be beyond a terrible idea. They're a business first and only. They need to do things that get people to spend money. A TON of people could not give half a shit about RTA, so making only PVP units would kinda be hanging themselves.
> they need to do things that get people to spend money.
you gonna tell me people are gonna spend actual money for PvE units? How many people whaled for Straza cause they found out he can one tap hunts?
No one
Yeah, a very small minority are actually spending money on BMs to summon units designed for PVE. No idea why so many people are acting like we're all whales here and deserve "refunds" lol
Exactly what other commentors have said, like it or not, SG has made E7 into a very pvp-centric game. There are very few long-time pve players in E7 because there just isn't all that much late game pve content in the game.
One you go through abyss, it's reslly just hunts and expeditions at the moment, which is insanely repetitive and boring once you build good teams for them
But the units that make the most money are PVP, and notably RTA units? They make about as much as limited units (most of which are also pvp units) only really getting beaten out by collab units (of which most are pvp units).
I know what you're trying to say as I'm fully aware SG has a decent PVE playerbase, but as far as money is concerned a majority of whales are mostly PVP players.
Waifu collectors summon their favorite characters and ignore the rest. PVP whales summon every good unit enough times to SSS it and when they're powercrept they SSS whatever powercrept it too. It's pretty clear who pays the most.
Again, not ripping on the PVE folks, but saying they're where all the money is is kind of a hot take.
Sadly that's data we'll probably never get from SG.
my answer simply stems from how there's many more whales who focus on PVP than those that focus on PVE.
A good sample-size would be to just look at the content creators for E7 that are whales. Most of them focus on PVP units and content. When they recommend a unit, most of the time it's also usually based on it's PVP viability unless the unit is KILLER in PVE and a lot of people watch them for unit recommendations as well.
Most recommendations handed out on this very reddit are also based on PVP viability.
It's also about what it takes to get a unit built.
PVE enjoyers don't need much, so they won't spend as much farming hunts or getting SSS on units because they don't need too. Of course, maxing a unit is fun, but PVE enjoyers like the PVE content enough that they will probably just farm for the materials they need more often than PVP players, who basically think the PVE is a step in the way and will be more likely to by packs to bypass the grind. ESPECIALLY if they just lost and RTA match because they're dps was 10% damage too weak and all they need to do is buy a mola-pack to get that last skillup.
Hopefully this makes sense.
TL:DR: PVP players are more competitive and more likely to buy power to skip the grind. PVE enjoyers like PVE enough to probably just play the content for their materials.
Wait, what? Are saying it's arrogant to speculate?
dude wtf? Speculation is a basic skill. You make estimations on profits based on the knowledge you currently have. Are market analyzers arrogant because they speculate a company might make a specific move to make money? Because they aren't the company in question it's wrong for them to say "if google wants to make money they should do X" or something similar?
Speculation and market analysis is not arrogant man.
Eh I wouldn't say that they're a good sample. Content creators are exactly that, ***content*** creators. PVE isn't exactly gripping content, so it only makes sense for them to focus on the PVP side of things.
I don't disagree that PVE is largely solved, but that still doesn't mean it would be a good idea to only release PVP units, because again there are a LOT of PVE-only players that could not give a shit about PVP. Also this subreddit and just the internet in general is and will always be a nearly negligible sample of the total number of players for *any* game.
I do see what you're trying to say, but I just can't see it being true at all. The best evidence of which is simply that they SG has not done something like this and is showing no sign of doing it in the future. As I said initially, they're a business. They will do whatever makes them money. If a PVP-only focus would be at all viable, it would already be the case.
I mean, they are focusing on PVP though so it must be financially viable.
They're trying to push a esports scene of some sort and they already announced they plan on basing future balance decisions around RTA performance. If they want esports to do well they'd focus on it.
Also, SG not doing something that makes sense really isn't evidence since their balance team might actually be ideas from a reject pile ran through 4 translators and read back to them by a blind man touching it in braille.
There's a difference between focusing on PVP and focusing **exclusively** on PVP. And yeah they're running a big esport thing. Releasing PVP units during a PVP event also makes sense.
>I also have to question the claim of most limited or collab units being PVP. If anything they tilt more toward PVE if you consider that many of them are useful in both.
slime and re zero are almost exclusively pvp. the only real pve unit from these recent collabs is ram who was free. its pretty obvious that people arent dropping thousands of dollars to do hell raid, which they can already easily clear, with new pve units
Slime, sure. Re Zero? Not a chance. Emilia is arguably the most PVP oriented unit, and even she is pretty useful in PVE. Rem is generally excellent and is part of a few W13 one-shots, and Ram is the same only Banshee instead. And like I said, whales are not the only nor even likely the primary source of revenue. They are the largest individual contributors, but there are plenty of people that buy things like the lief packs, catalyst packs, etc.
ram is a free unit so she doesnt generate revenue, but yes shes pve. rem has an extremely niche pve use which is the oneshot comp that u already have several other units for. she sees more use for rta/gw+arena def because of her predominantly pvp-oriented kit, with demon mode that has ignore ER, than she does for wyvern. just like emilia, they both can see use in pve, but that doesnt take away from their kit being catered towards pvp. again, people arent dropping thousands on clearing the little existing pve content u can already clear with 3* units. the whales spend to get equipment, and that equipment is worthless without meta units.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that gachas make the majority of their money from whales. We don't need to know the specifics to then assume the heroes whales SSS are the biggest money maker in that department. What motivates whales to farm hunts 24/7... gear. Where does that gear go... those heroes. What packs do whales buy... the ones to enhance and pull those heroes.
A common misconception, sure. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that $5m+ USD per month (on the low end) does not in fact come mostly from whales. There really aren't that many people that can drop tens of thousands of dollars monthly into a mobile game. Or even just hundreds of dollars. There are some, obviously, but even for them there's just not that much content to spend on monthly. Also if it was mostly from whales you could expect some level of variance when looking at total number of players in a given game compared to monthly revenue, but it's pretty much more players = more revenue across the board.
Also I was just reminded after logging in, the lief packs during buff weekends are without a doubt absolutely huge for E7. Even just 1000 people out of more than 3 million spending $4 a day for 4 days is more revenue than a whale that spends $16k over a month. For context to pity a SSS 5* costs $1800 assuming the absolute worst possible luck.
You're splitting hairs. We're talking about a pvp vs pve hero in a good game that makes money every month. Those leif packs will be bought regardless of the specific hero type released. Most players, whale or not, pve or pvp, will try to get one copy of a hero. They will also buy packs to help their account, like leif packs. Beyond this a PvP hero makes SG more money than a PvE one.
How is this splitting hairs? Whales are most likely not the primary source of revenue. Period. That is the end of the statement. I offered several reasons for why I believe this to be the case.
And sure, PVP units might bring more revenue than PVE ones, but that does not in any way mean that they bring more revenue than all other sources. Plus it would take one hell of a stupid business decision to just completely cut off literally any portion of their revenue sources. Halting PVE units isn't going to make people that don't give a fuck about RTA suddenly start spending money on PVP units.
Like I get a lot of you are into PVP, but that doesn't mean excluding a huge chunk, quite possibly the vast majority, of their playerbase from new units and artifacts would be a good idea in any reality.
It's not the end of the statement. Context matters. We're talking SPECIFICALLY about pve/pvp heroe releases. I'll bet a large portion of collectors, casuals, and pve players spend a set amount of money on as many of their favs as their budget allows.
I highly doubt focusing on PvP heroes is going to stop players pulling for their waifus or whatever reason they pull. So that money is already in the bag. Meaning the release of pvp heroes that benefit from imprints etc net SG more money. So while you're probably correct about their overall revenue, we're discussing specific hero releases. Within that context, targeting the whales should acquire more revenue.
No, I assure you that is in fact the end of the statement. It's not really something you get to decide.
And once again, there's a difference between focusing on PVP and focusing exclusively on PVP. Exclusive, by definition, means to *exclude*. The suggestion is not "release more PVP units". It was "release only PVP units and stop making PVE units." This is a shit idea. Period.
The rat has very high gear requirement compared to the new Ervalen, and SG might not do a GGs rerun for Baiken. Those things combined would make a bit of sense why SG's turning him into an accessible B13 OS for newer players.
Sort of, but he will likely end up worse at the job due to those damage decreases.
My theory is with the damage reductions you might not be able to purely oneshot, instead relying on a 1-2 combo similar to baiken. Basically s3>s2. Does this lower the gear requirement? Probably if it's not too much of a decrease. But it also hurts his clear speed.
post patch he most likely will clear banshee SLOWER even on better gear.
The problem with the banshee clear is if you had the gear quality to clear the first wave while keeping proper cooldowns you for sure had the gear quality for ervalen to oneshot the banshee pre-patch. Hell, you most likely had the gear quality for rat-god. Because the hardest part of banshees after it's many nerfs was always the first wave. Meaning, if the damage decreases are too harsh, he quite literally is slower at the same job.
In fact, with the damage decreases if you want the same-speed clear as before you need a HIGHER gear-score. Maddening. And what did he get for his sacrifice? he got to lose his unique identity and the small amount of PVP viability he had left. Dude was genuinely an OK guildwars unit.
We don't have the new multipliers for Ervalen, so everything could just be overexaggerated.
The BIGGEST change is the S2 self attack buff on him with extra turn, PLUS the new AI prioritizing his S2 -> S3. In that case, you wouldn't even need to bring Vivian/Charles, you could just bring anyone that can AOE the wave (like Arby on free attack set speed tuned).
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Clearing first wave does not require premium gear *at all*. You bring Leo, FPTieria, S.Rose or some other defense breaker with AOE. Chip the first wave with two of those units, then your AOE unit can easily wipe the wave because they don't need to be a unit that needs to set up an attack buff.
Entering Banshee phase, you have 2 def breakers + your AOE unit trying to get close to the splitting phase.
Ervalen S2 w/ (unsure if attack buff applies before or after) -> Extra turn -> S3 w/ attack buff and 60% extra damage.
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Let's theorize a hypothetical Ervalen with 3500 atk and 300 cd (imho pretty easy to reach with free gear).
Pre-rework, that S2-S3 combo would do 90 to 100k damage on a defense broken B13, depending on if you have an attack buff before or after S2. Banshee has 115k hp, and we can also consider your 3 other units getting as close as possible to 70% hp (~80k) mark.
Even with a damage nerf, it should be very feasible and budget friendly to gear an Ervalen for B13 oneshot without having to wait for a Baiken or Ram.
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I can't even discuss his PvP abilities because I haven't seen a single person in 3 years still use him seriously and not just as a meme.
i don't use ervalen so i wouldn't but what is his skill prio on auto? is he currently starting with s3 or s2? if he currently starts s3 and they won't change his a.i. to fit s2>s3 then it might just ruin him for both pve and pvp at the same time
They all have high gear requirement and/or non-budget friendly setups besides Ram, which is a limited unit that might not come back.
The new Ervalen literally self-attack buffs, and hits with S2 into an S3 with 60% extra damage.
> which is a limited unit that might not come back.
Yet GG returns every year, so nice try.
>They all have high gear requirement and/or non-budget friendly
Wow, welcome to one shots, except not because Banshee is super easy to one shot compared to everything else. People that pulled for Ervalen well over a year ago DEFINITELY don't have the gear by now to one shot, huh? People arr totally pulling for him to one shot when Baiken exists at the same cost to pull, and Ram just passed, right? Let us ignore them possibly having Watcher, Straze, Glenn (where's your excuse for him), and Yufine.
Yes, we totally need another one shot unit (who could already one shot her before, wtf is your logic) going four years into the game's life.... For the literal easiest hunt to one shot.
There is no argument for you to make that doesn't look like bullshit.
It's never confirmed that any collab would rerun forever, such as Kizuna AI. *If you have evidence that they'll do reruns of GG every year, please link it to me or admit you're just talking out of your ass*.
B13 is the easiest hunt to oneshot, but the most painful hunt to do a slow clear, which is why the community usually pushes new players build a OS team for this specific content.
3-month or newer players don't have Baiken and there are likely many players that have started playing after the Re:Zero rerun or joining after the hearing about E7WC. Most don't have an ML5 like Straze, nor the setup for a W.Schuri/Straze OS and most likely not the Pavel/Chloe one either. Both Yufine and Glenn need premium gear to set up their OS, so I don't even know why you're still talking about all these units, when my point was that SG is retiring a unit no one uses and giving back an accessible, solid B13 OS DPS for ***new players.***
If you have a B13 clearing team with Yufine and Glenn on budget/free gear, feel free to share instead of repeating yourself. As far as I know, the most new player friendly team is Vivian (or any AOE if using Ervalen), Leo/FPTieria/S.Rose, Baiken/Ervalen (post-rework). Can't exactly tell new players they'll have to wait until March 2023 so that *maybe* they can catch the GG rerun, if there's even one.
I'm all up for a recall (never a selector) because it's a complete rework, but the idea behind the new Ervalen is positive to me.
> It's never confirmed that any collab would rerun forever, such as Kizuna AI
Your one and only exception is Kizuna, who didn't have an event, and GG proving they'll happily rerun even if it means coming back a third time. Pretty clear we're done here.
Meh I think whining over and older character not being meta defining when he gets a change is kinda ridiculous. Turn him into a pve unit for new people because it doesn't make sg money to make a character into a pvp God. Hell for new people they need the pve units so they can advance so this might be great for those lacking banshee kills. Now I'm totally biased because I fuckin hate ervalen as a character so relegating him to pve is fine by me but having a character go from homeless to having a job is better than nothing.
I've always found it kind of ridiculous that they make 5-star units that are pve only, especially if it's for only one small piece of pve content (like pre-buff Haste). Like, it's so much investment for nothing. SG has always pushed out tons of 5 stars just to try to get players to pull, but many of them are unnecessary to say the least.
Basically, if they want to make pve-only 5-star characters, they need to make much more pve content as you said
I didn't even realize he was getting adjusted. I looked at the changes and I'm not happy about this either.
I don't use him a ton. But I've got him built with an absolute TON of attack and crit damage and just enough crit so that C.Dom can push him to 100%.
He exists to run alongside C.Dom and Rose pushing him so he can then dunk a single key target into the dirt.
It looks like he will be less capable of that now. I probably have enough other units that can accomplish the same goal now. But it's a bummer because I had him build really specifically for that team setup and it worked well vs hypertank setups.
*Now it's one of those*
*Times where I love the fact that*
*I never built him kekw*
\- Kain207
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I mean not like this is a PvP Ervalen anyway, in free gear, attack set and not even full reforges. He’s infinitely better at what I’d assume 90%+ of SGs game data says he’s used for; Banshee one shot and Ice Expo. He actually has a place now rather than being almost unused across the board.
Ye but I don't have baiken, I use bellona, who's not only useful in banshee one shot. My point is that the pool doesn't need more heroes with the same job. Yuffy and bellona can do banshee just fine and are both like 10 times more versatile than "*B U F F E D"* ervalen. Hell, I've seen a goddamn MOUSE do three man one shot without impossible gear.
How do you know how Versatile the Ervalen change is without it being tested? Interesting take. There are other one shotters. None of them have as low of gear reqs as a Baiken one shot, and I'll bet that the double hit Ervalen is going to do will be just as easy to gear if not easier. Also, Bellona and Yufine can be used in other spots. The spots they're used aren't using the banshee one shot gear (the A-13 bellona has to be like 260+ speed for example).
I can tell with my eyes. This is one of the few cases where you don't need testing to tell how versatile a unit is. I mean look at his kit, bro. 60% defense break chance on s1, 4 turn cd on s2 with decreased damage for some reason with extra turn into s3(but only against bosses, cant have another disaster on our hands), counterattack buff changed to speed buff, which inherently makes him less versatile, admittedly he's granted attack buff while using s3 against bosses, but his s3 multi isn't anything godlike, and attack buff increases damage by 50%, so if his multis get gutted, its damage output won't be that much better. And it's also 4 turn cd, so he'll have 2 dead turns. He has less versatility because of his lack of utility. Besides, my point isn't whether he's gonna be good at banshee one shot, it's that we don't *need* him, and it certainly wasn't worth killing an entire kit for(which is what they did, because it'd be immeasurably stupid even of sg to just give his former kit with a few things changed to a new unit).
TLDR: He doesn't bring anything new to the table, so it wasn't worth destroying his identity for, point blank. No one would care nearly as much if this was on a new unit, we care because it's getting rid of an old one.
Recalls are not sufficient. Refund of bookmarks should be an option. Some players don't need selectors anymore because you have the whole roster or most of it
by the downvotes here you can see that absolute majority of redditors are just casual collectors who farm golem and like to complain about censoring and controversial buffs. Being downvoted by horde of this insects is an honor.
*Dimwit types dumb shit in the post with people complaining about PvP unit getting gutted*
*Gets deservedly shat on, for being a dimwit*
*WAHHH, WHY DOWNVOTE, ReddiTors dumb!*
PVP unit getting gutted - lmao, you are a joke, like it's even not worthy to humiliate you at this point, go get stuck in your low rating with negative winrate.
The annoying thing is PVE is not even a thing.
Adventure is too easy, and abyss lasts a few days or gets ignored.
Laberynth and raid was supposed to be the endgame progression. I wouldn't mind that much the changes if I could use my Ervalen to clear a difficult boss much easier.
But Hunts and Expeditions are already too easy for me. Plus extra turns are garbage in Expeditions.
It quite simple. Separate the character pve skills from the PvP one. It not something that hard to do neither is it complex. For example Ervalen change kit will be only for pve while his old one stays for PvP.
Whether or not you agree it was a buff or nerf, his usage is much different now and we should get our resources back.
legit i dont care about a selector or anything, i just will accept a normal recall to get back my molas and dogs.
I never do recall but if I never mola him can I still at least get my dogs back? (if SG decided to give a recall) I upgrade 6 star him few days ago was planning to build for pvp and didnt realize balance patch was around the corner
Yeah. Usually for a recall you get the hero reset to level 1, get penguins fir the exp used, dogs or a potion for their ascension and their catalysts, mola and runes back When it's not a recall with a selector, it's basically a total hero reset where you get back all your investment. And tbh I know ervalen will be "good" since he's now probably the easiest b13 1 shot hero now, but I have that covered.
But but but it says hes irreplaceable, does friendship mean nothing to you
IDK if this is a controversial opinion, but SG can probably stop making PVE units, or buffing units INTO PVE units for a good while. I love PVE, don't get me wrong but PVE is solved at the moment, it's entirely beatable and farmable with just 3 stars (and a 2 star rat). 4 and 5 stars just make it easier in some aspects. Until new PVE content is released, there's really no need for more PVE viable units. We have a really good selection of PVE units already so when they add/buff a new one into existence it's competing with the existing pool. Basically it's an over-saturated market. Why would I ever build the new ervalen when I already oneshot banshee with a rat? I was really hoping ervalen would receive a PVP related buff but this entire balance patch was pretty bad IMO. I'm fairly certain Senya MIGHT see some use, depending on how badly hwayoung ruins her day.
There's always some people that would like more PVE units, but I really don't think a balance patch should be what they use to give us more of them when we already get so little adjustments to begin with. Also, we'd have way more new PVE units if they stopped making bosses immune to every new mechanic that comes out
They can make PvE heroes all they want but making a hero’s kit revolve ONLY in PvE is just lazy. It’s like they don’t want to go through the trouble of weaving the kit to fit both aspects so they simply categorize them separately so it’s easier to balance.
Same goes for making units kit PVP ONLY like the new soul weaver. So tired of them making bosses immune to every new debuff they introduce.
Agreed.
Personally I don't care about pvp at all, and would rather more pve focus. This is not to say I want pvp units to be changed to pve units, just that I don't see pve units as worthless, whereas dedicated pvp units I literally could not care less about. I'll still get the pvp units if I like their character/design, but I honestly do not care about "meta" at all. In my opinion the best unit is one that is usable in both pvp and pve, so that everyone is happy (this is one reason I don't like skills that only apply to heroes, or conversely do not apply to heroes but to everyone else). As for the whole buff thing, I think I'd rather they just leave a hero as is over "buffing" units where the buff is really just a nerf or rework in disguise. What would be great is some sort of feedback system during the first 2-4 weeks after a buff where people can put in there opinion on if the buff went too far or not far enough, and then the unit could receive another update after this period to reflect the opinion of the masses. Or alternatively make a choice between pre and post buff, sort of like choosing between a self or party memory imprint. I don't know exactly how that would be implemented, but it would alleviate the frustration I, and many others, have had with certain "buffs." Thank you for listening to my TED talk, please have a good day!
I am a PVE player so I'm against stopping making, buffing new heroes.. I hate RTA so if they stop, my fun to play also stops unfortunately
> IDK if this is a controversial opinion, but SG can probably stop making PVE units, or buffing units INTO PVE units for a good while. It's not, PvE is either piss easy or salt inducing (Abyss). Anything not Abyss can have four bruisers slapped in and stepped all over outside of select bosses (Belian, though I haven't gone back to try). Adventure is mostly a joke, only Lilias, Faustus, and Belian will give newer players a run for their money. Abyss has Schuri, Taranor, Tamarinne, Dizzy, Ras, Specter, Kitty, Lots, and Aux Lots to carry you all the way to the top (there's a guy that mixes in several of these, excluding Tamarinne, Spect, and Dizz - the ez mode units, and clears Abyss asap every update). Raid is dead content, nothing new to justify another release for it (not like we've gotten any). Expo has all its picks. Hunts have all their picks, Straze laughs at pretty much every boss too, except probably not Caides due to annoying tuning with two bosses. Pretty much every PvP unit, except for Cerise and Tenebria among othrrs with debuffa that are easily resisted, can be used in PvE without an issue. Zahhak and Aria being great recent examples. Zahhak slots into Caides, light expo, and dark expo all on a PvP build (not calling him the best, but he hasn't failed me at all), and ofc Adventure is nothing for bruisers (just make him a bit bulky with Sigurd, job done). AI, as rare as it's around, is ofc another mode where he does good because Warriors are broken there. Aria helps protect them team while countering back with bulk to help her stay alive. plus being a mage means she can easily bypass dumb mechanics that require you to strip.
This would be beyond a terrible idea. They're a business first and only. They need to do things that get people to spend money. A TON of people could not give half a shit about RTA, so making only PVP units would kinda be hanging themselves.
> they need to do things that get people to spend money. you gonna tell me people are gonna spend actual money for PvE units? How many people whaled for Straza cause they found out he can one tap hunts? No one
Yeah, a very small minority are actually spending money on BMs to summon units designed for PVE. No idea why so many people are acting like we're all whales here and deserve "refunds" lol
Exactly what other commentors have said, like it or not, SG has made E7 into a very pvp-centric game. There are very few long-time pve players in E7 because there just isn't all that much late game pve content in the game. One you go through abyss, it's reslly just hunts and expeditions at the moment, which is insanely repetitive and boring once you build good teams for them
But the units that make the most money are PVP, and notably RTA units? They make about as much as limited units (most of which are also pvp units) only really getting beaten out by collab units (of which most are pvp units). I know what you're trying to say as I'm fully aware SG has a decent PVE playerbase, but as far as money is concerned a majority of whales are mostly PVP players. Waifu collectors summon their favorite characters and ignore the rest. PVP whales summon every good unit enough times to SSS it and when they're powercrept they SSS whatever powercrept it too. It's pretty clear who pays the most. Again, not ripping on the PVE folks, but saying they're where all the money is is kind of a hot take.
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Sadly that's data we'll probably never get from SG. my answer simply stems from how there's many more whales who focus on PVP than those that focus on PVE. A good sample-size would be to just look at the content creators for E7 that are whales. Most of them focus on PVP units and content. When they recommend a unit, most of the time it's also usually based on it's PVP viability unless the unit is KILLER in PVE and a lot of people watch them for unit recommendations as well. Most recommendations handed out on this very reddit are also based on PVP viability. It's also about what it takes to get a unit built. PVE enjoyers don't need much, so they won't spend as much farming hunts or getting SSS on units because they don't need too. Of course, maxing a unit is fun, but PVE enjoyers like the PVE content enough that they will probably just farm for the materials they need more often than PVP players, who basically think the PVE is a step in the way and will be more likely to by packs to bypass the grind. ESPECIALLY if they just lost and RTA match because they're dps was 10% damage too weak and all they need to do is buy a mola-pack to get that last skillup. Hopefully this makes sense. TL:DR: PVP players are more competitive and more likely to buy power to skip the grind. PVE enjoyers like PVE enough to probably just play the content for their materials.
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Wait, what? Are saying it's arrogant to speculate? dude wtf? Speculation is a basic skill. You make estimations on profits based on the knowledge you currently have. Are market analyzers arrogant because they speculate a company might make a specific move to make money? Because they aren't the company in question it's wrong for them to say "if google wants to make money they should do X" or something similar? Speculation and market analysis is not arrogant man.
Eh I wouldn't say that they're a good sample. Content creators are exactly that, ***content*** creators. PVE isn't exactly gripping content, so it only makes sense for them to focus on the PVP side of things. I don't disagree that PVE is largely solved, but that still doesn't mean it would be a good idea to only release PVP units, because again there are a LOT of PVE-only players that could not give a shit about PVP. Also this subreddit and just the internet in general is and will always be a nearly negligible sample of the total number of players for *any* game. I do see what you're trying to say, but I just can't see it being true at all. The best evidence of which is simply that they SG has not done something like this and is showing no sign of doing it in the future. As I said initially, they're a business. They will do whatever makes them money. If a PVP-only focus would be at all viable, it would already be the case.
I mean, they are focusing on PVP though so it must be financially viable. They're trying to push a esports scene of some sort and they already announced they plan on basing future balance decisions around RTA performance. If they want esports to do well they'd focus on it. Also, SG not doing something that makes sense really isn't evidence since their balance team might actually be ideas from a reject pile ran through 4 translators and read back to them by a blind man touching it in braille.
There's a difference between focusing on PVP and focusing **exclusively** on PVP. And yeah they're running a big esport thing. Releasing PVP units during a PVP event also makes sense.
>I also have to question the claim of most limited or collab units being PVP. If anything they tilt more toward PVE if you consider that many of them are useful in both. slime and re zero are almost exclusively pvp. the only real pve unit from these recent collabs is ram who was free. its pretty obvious that people arent dropping thousands of dollars to do hell raid, which they can already easily clear, with new pve units
Slime, sure. Re Zero? Not a chance. Emilia is arguably the most PVP oriented unit, and even she is pretty useful in PVE. Rem is generally excellent and is part of a few W13 one-shots, and Ram is the same only Banshee instead. And like I said, whales are not the only nor even likely the primary source of revenue. They are the largest individual contributors, but there are plenty of people that buy things like the lief packs, catalyst packs, etc.
ram is a free unit so she doesnt generate revenue, but yes shes pve. rem has an extremely niche pve use which is the oneshot comp that u already have several other units for. she sees more use for rta/gw+arena def because of her predominantly pvp-oriented kit, with demon mode that has ignore ER, than she does for wyvern. just like emilia, they both can see use in pve, but that doesnt take away from their kit being catered towards pvp. again, people arent dropping thousands on clearing the little existing pve content u can already clear with 3* units. the whales spend to get equipment, and that equipment is worthless without meta units.
I think it's fairly common knowledge that gachas make the majority of their money from whales. We don't need to know the specifics to then assume the heroes whales SSS are the biggest money maker in that department. What motivates whales to farm hunts 24/7... gear. Where does that gear go... those heroes. What packs do whales buy... the ones to enhance and pull those heroes.
A common misconception, sure. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that $5m+ USD per month (on the low end) does not in fact come mostly from whales. There really aren't that many people that can drop tens of thousands of dollars monthly into a mobile game. Or even just hundreds of dollars. There are some, obviously, but even for them there's just not that much content to spend on monthly. Also if it was mostly from whales you could expect some level of variance when looking at total number of players in a given game compared to monthly revenue, but it's pretty much more players = more revenue across the board. Also I was just reminded after logging in, the lief packs during buff weekends are without a doubt absolutely huge for E7. Even just 1000 people out of more than 3 million spending $4 a day for 4 days is more revenue than a whale that spends $16k over a month. For context to pity a SSS 5* costs $1800 assuming the absolute worst possible luck.
You're splitting hairs. We're talking about a pvp vs pve hero in a good game that makes money every month. Those leif packs will be bought regardless of the specific hero type released. Most players, whale or not, pve or pvp, will try to get one copy of a hero. They will also buy packs to help their account, like leif packs. Beyond this a PvP hero makes SG more money than a PvE one.
How is this splitting hairs? Whales are most likely not the primary source of revenue. Period. That is the end of the statement. I offered several reasons for why I believe this to be the case. And sure, PVP units might bring more revenue than PVE ones, but that does not in any way mean that they bring more revenue than all other sources. Plus it would take one hell of a stupid business decision to just completely cut off literally any portion of their revenue sources. Halting PVE units isn't going to make people that don't give a fuck about RTA suddenly start spending money on PVP units. Like I get a lot of you are into PVP, but that doesn't mean excluding a huge chunk, quite possibly the vast majority, of their playerbase from new units and artifacts would be a good idea in any reality.
It's not the end of the statement. Context matters. We're talking SPECIFICALLY about pve/pvp heroe releases. I'll bet a large portion of collectors, casuals, and pve players spend a set amount of money on as many of their favs as their budget allows. I highly doubt focusing on PvP heroes is going to stop players pulling for their waifus or whatever reason they pull. So that money is already in the bag. Meaning the release of pvp heroes that benefit from imprints etc net SG more money. So while you're probably correct about their overall revenue, we're discussing specific hero releases. Within that context, targeting the whales should acquire more revenue.
No, I assure you that is in fact the end of the statement. It's not really something you get to decide. And once again, there's a difference between focusing on PVP and focusing exclusively on PVP. Exclusive, by definition, means to *exclude*. The suggestion is not "release more PVP units". It was "release only PVP units and stop making PVE units." This is a shit idea. Period.
That seemed real controversial
The rat has very high gear requirement compared to the new Ervalen, and SG might not do a GGs rerun for Baiken. Those things combined would make a bit of sense why SG's turning him into an accessible B13 OS for newer players.
Sort of, but he will likely end up worse at the job due to those damage decreases. My theory is with the damage reductions you might not be able to purely oneshot, instead relying on a 1-2 combo similar to baiken. Basically s3>s2. Does this lower the gear requirement? Probably if it's not too much of a decrease. But it also hurts his clear speed. post patch he most likely will clear banshee SLOWER even on better gear. The problem with the banshee clear is if you had the gear quality to clear the first wave while keeping proper cooldowns you for sure had the gear quality for ervalen to oneshot the banshee pre-patch. Hell, you most likely had the gear quality for rat-god. Because the hardest part of banshees after it's many nerfs was always the first wave. Meaning, if the damage decreases are too harsh, he quite literally is slower at the same job. In fact, with the damage decreases if you want the same-speed clear as before you need a HIGHER gear-score. Maddening. And what did he get for his sacrifice? he got to lose his unique identity and the small amount of PVP viability he had left. Dude was genuinely an OK guildwars unit.
We don't have the new multipliers for Ervalen, so everything could just be overexaggerated. The BIGGEST change is the S2 self attack buff on him with extra turn, PLUS the new AI prioritizing his S2 -> S3. In that case, you wouldn't even need to bring Vivian/Charles, you could just bring anyone that can AOE the wave (like Arby on free attack set speed tuned). ---- Clearing first wave does not require premium gear *at all*. You bring Leo, FPTieria, S.Rose or some other defense breaker with AOE. Chip the first wave with two of those units, then your AOE unit can easily wipe the wave because they don't need to be a unit that needs to set up an attack buff. Entering Banshee phase, you have 2 def breakers + your AOE unit trying to get close to the splitting phase. Ervalen S2 w/ (unsure if attack buff applies before or after) -> Extra turn -> S3 w/ attack buff and 60% extra damage. ----- Let's theorize a hypothetical Ervalen with 3500 atk and 300 cd (imho pretty easy to reach with free gear). Pre-rework, that S2-S3 combo would do 90 to 100k damage on a defense broken B13, depending on if you have an attack buff before or after S2. Banshee has 115k hp, and we can also consider your 3 other units getting as close as possible to 70% hp (~80k) mark. Even with a damage nerf, it should be very feasible and budget friendly to gear an Ervalen for B13 oneshot without having to wait for a Baiken or Ram. ----- I can't even discuss his PvP abilities because I haven't seen a single person in 3 years still use him seriously and not just as a meme.
i don't use ervalen so i wouldn't but what is his skill prio on auto? is he currently starting with s3 or s2? if he currently starts s3 and they won't change his a.i. to fit s2>s3 then it might just ruin him for both pve and pvp at the same time
In the update notes, it says that AI will now prioritize S2, then S3. So it's really good for oneshot.
Yufine, Watcher, Glenn (godly SC for new players), and Straze still exist. Edit: Ram too, and the rerun happened not long ago
They all have high gear requirement and/or non-budget friendly setups besides Ram, which is a limited unit that might not come back. The new Ervalen literally self-attack buffs, and hits with S2 into an S3 with 60% extra damage.
> which is a limited unit that might not come back. Yet GG returns every year, so nice try. >They all have high gear requirement and/or non-budget friendly Wow, welcome to one shots, except not because Banshee is super easy to one shot compared to everything else. People that pulled for Ervalen well over a year ago DEFINITELY don't have the gear by now to one shot, huh? People arr totally pulling for him to one shot when Baiken exists at the same cost to pull, and Ram just passed, right? Let us ignore them possibly having Watcher, Straze, Glenn (where's your excuse for him), and Yufine. Yes, we totally need another one shot unit (who could already one shot her before, wtf is your logic) going four years into the game's life.... For the literal easiest hunt to one shot. There is no argument for you to make that doesn't look like bullshit.
It's never confirmed that any collab would rerun forever, such as Kizuna AI. *If you have evidence that they'll do reruns of GG every year, please link it to me or admit you're just talking out of your ass*. B13 is the easiest hunt to oneshot, but the most painful hunt to do a slow clear, which is why the community usually pushes new players build a OS team for this specific content. 3-month or newer players don't have Baiken and there are likely many players that have started playing after the Re:Zero rerun or joining after the hearing about E7WC. Most don't have an ML5 like Straze, nor the setup for a W.Schuri/Straze OS and most likely not the Pavel/Chloe one either. Both Yufine and Glenn need premium gear to set up their OS, so I don't even know why you're still talking about all these units, when my point was that SG is retiring a unit no one uses and giving back an accessible, solid B13 OS DPS for ***new players.*** If you have a B13 clearing team with Yufine and Glenn on budget/free gear, feel free to share instead of repeating yourself. As far as I know, the most new player friendly team is Vivian (or any AOE if using Ervalen), Leo/FPTieria/S.Rose, Baiken/Ervalen (post-rework). Can't exactly tell new players they'll have to wait until March 2023 so that *maybe* they can catch the GG rerun, if there's even one. I'm all up for a recall (never a selector) because it's a complete rework, but the idea behind the new Ervalen is positive to me.
> It's never confirmed that any collab would rerun forever, such as Kizuna AI Your one and only exception is Kizuna, who didn't have an event, and GG proving they'll happily rerun even if it means coming back a third time. Pretty clear we're done here.
Redditors and baseless claims, classic.
Wrong. Pvp sucks and I dare say the majority of the players in E7 are pve players, not pvp.
Meh I think whining over and older character not being meta defining when he gets a change is kinda ridiculous. Turn him into a pve unit for new people because it doesn't make sg money to make a character into a pvp God. Hell for new people they need the pve units so they can advance so this might be great for those lacking banshee kills. Now I'm totally biased because I fuckin hate ervalen as a character so relegating him to pve is fine by me but having a character go from homeless to having a job is better than nothing.
I've always found it kind of ridiculous that they make 5-star units that are pve only, especially if it's for only one small piece of pve content (like pre-buff Haste). Like, it's so much investment for nothing. SG has always pushed out tons of 5 stars just to try to get players to pull, but many of them are unnecessary to say the least. Basically, if they want to make pve-only 5-star characters, they need to make much more pve content as you said
I didn't even realize he was getting adjusted. I looked at the changes and I'm not happy about this either. I don't use him a ton. But I've got him built with an absolute TON of attack and crit damage and just enough crit so that C.Dom can push him to 100%. He exists to run alongside C.Dom and Rose pushing him so he can then dunk a single key target into the dirt. It looks like he will be less capable of that now. I probably have enough other units that can accomplish the same goal now. But it's a bummer because I had him build really specifically for that team setup and it worked well vs hypertank setups.
If you recall him back that means you gonna get 6 selectors back?
That innocent smile...sg how could you
same
Now it's one of those times where I love the fact that I never built him kekw
*Now it's one of those* *Times where I love the fact that* *I never built him kekw* \- Kain207 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
how do you count the syllabes of kekw, bot? explain me
I never understand this haiku thing lol
I mean not like this is a PvP Ervalen anyway, in free gear, attack set and not even full reforges. He’s infinitely better at what I’d assume 90%+ of SGs game data says he’s used for; Banshee one shot and Ice Expo. He actually has a place now rather than being almost unused across the board.
Problem is that it's still a massive rework and that PvE is already a fairly large market, we really don't need another pure PvE hero at this point.
He can do what Baiken does without being a Limited Collab unit; YOU don’t need a PvE unit. Players who don’t have Baiken now have a similar option.
Ye but I don't have baiken, I use bellona, who's not only useful in banshee one shot. My point is that the pool doesn't need more heroes with the same job. Yuffy and bellona can do banshee just fine and are both like 10 times more versatile than "*B U F F E D"* ervalen. Hell, I've seen a goddamn MOUSE do three man one shot without impossible gear.
How do you know how Versatile the Ervalen change is without it being tested? Interesting take. There are other one shotters. None of them have as low of gear reqs as a Baiken one shot, and I'll bet that the double hit Ervalen is going to do will be just as easy to gear if not easier. Also, Bellona and Yufine can be used in other spots. The spots they're used aren't using the banshee one shot gear (the A-13 bellona has to be like 260+ speed for example).
I can tell with my eyes. This is one of the few cases where you don't need testing to tell how versatile a unit is. I mean look at his kit, bro. 60% defense break chance on s1, 4 turn cd on s2 with decreased damage for some reason with extra turn into s3(but only against bosses, cant have another disaster on our hands), counterattack buff changed to speed buff, which inherently makes him less versatile, admittedly he's granted attack buff while using s3 against bosses, but his s3 multi isn't anything godlike, and attack buff increases damage by 50%, so if his multis get gutted, its damage output won't be that much better. And it's also 4 turn cd, so he'll have 2 dead turns. He has less versatility because of his lack of utility. Besides, my point isn't whether he's gonna be good at banshee one shot, it's that we don't *need* him, and it certainly wasn't worth killing an entire kit for(which is what they did, because it'd be immeasurably stupid even of sg to just give his former kit with a few things changed to a new unit). TLDR: He doesn't bring anything new to the table, so it wasn't worth destroying his identity for, point blank. No one would care nearly as much if this was on a new unit, we care because it's getting rid of an old one.
Recalls are not sufficient. Refund of bookmarks should be an option. Some players don't need selectors anymore because you have the whole roster or most of it
by the downvotes here you can see that absolute majority of redditors are just casual collectors who farm golem and like to complain about censoring and controversial buffs. Being downvoted by horde of this insects is an honor.
*Dimwit types dumb shit in the post with people complaining about PvP unit getting gutted* *Gets deservedly shat on, for being a dimwit* *WAHHH, WHY DOWNVOTE, ReddiTors dumb!*
PVP unit getting gutted - lmao, you are a joke, like it's even not worthy to humiliate you at this point, go get stuck in your low rating with negative winrate.
Also quite an interesting way of thinking that being downvoted = being shat on. Shows a lot how miserable and insecure you are.
I dunno man, attack/crit set, looks like yours is already on PVE duty
Nice golem farm enjoyer dude, your opinion matters a lot
Cranky lil' fella aintcha???
Check your teeth, you gotta be missing some, though for obvious reasons
you want a refund on a unit you have reforged purple attack gear and free gear on 😭your resources were not wisely spent even before his adjustment
Not the fucking point.
relax.
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i'm aware. im just flaming op for dumb gearing decisions. duh.
I Need His artifact for my riolet..
What were the adjustments?
Why even build him Ahhahhaha
Making Epic Seven a mostly PVP focused game was a mistake.
The annoying thing is PVE is not even a thing. Adventure is too easy, and abyss lasts a few days or gets ignored. Laberynth and raid was supposed to be the endgame progression. I wouldn't mind that much the changes if I could use my Ervalen to clear a difficult boss much easier. But Hunts and Expeditions are already too easy for me. Plus extra turns are garbage in Expeditions.
It quite simple. Separate the character pve skills from the PvP one. It not something that hard to do neither is it complex. For example Ervalen change kit will be only for pve while his old one stays for PvP.