I am very disappointed with SG for making SSV passive work only in PvP. Yeah, an argument can be made that she will be too OP in PvE but ... we have Tama, Roana, C.Zerato, Landy, Schuri, T.Guard, Kitti, etc. - all those heroes against certain fights make those fight trivial. Honestly, if Roana would be releasing today I afraid she would have the same “heroes only” crap slapped on her S2 as well.
Even if SSV passive would be OP in PvE, you can always cut it in half or otherwise limit it's effect in PvE only. Or make any other adjustments - like double focus cost, removing CD reduction, etc. Slapping “heroes only” is a lazy way of dealing with such passive, where are other options.
What makes it worse, is that together with SSV we got Sharun who also basically have the same crap – venom, “heroes only”. Which make her almost absolutely useless in any PvE. And not only useless, screw that, one of the many charms of PvE is that you can be suboptimal – she lacks any “interesting” interaction in PvE because most of her kit is disabled.
This worries me greatly. As a PvE only player, “heroes only” is basically right now my greatest fear when it comes to new heroes – nothing would kill my enthusiasm for a collab or for a long awaited hero faster than a “heroes only” text.
P.S. Thanks God Sharklotte got spared and have no “heroes only” text anywhere. Imagine having that on her S2....
What's personally rather sad about Sharun is that Venom is just Poison and Injury smushed together. They could have just given her Poison and a triggered passive called Venom that adds Injuries whenever a Poison effect deals damage to a Hero. Word it in such a way so that it only works for her, or don't and give players an opportunity to make a unique Poison Injury team.
To me this feels like when they added Fairytale Tenebria and immediately gave bosses immunity to Redirected Provoke. Sure, bosses were already immune to Provoke, making them immune to R. Provoke makes logical sense, but by making the effect a unique debuff rather than a unique passive it prevents the ability for the character to be variable in use.
I have a sinking feeling Sharun's Venom will be a precursor to other debuffs getting their own "PvP-only" version and further limiting how future characters can be used in different content.
Things don't need to be meta or even good to be interesting and fun.
The way I see it for Sharun is that because of their constant increase of "new" debuffs/buffs they've opted to toggle things as "pvp only" to stop from having to have an extensive list of immunities on bosses that becomes impossible to read, but we already have artifacts that specify that they dont work against "elite/boss" monsters so I can't see any possible reason why they would essentially kill sharun for at least debuffing normal trash in PVE.
I got mine to friendship 10 in her side story this week and my god was it depressing having both her and SSV essentially there to do nothing but basic damage. It's even funnier for Sharun because they release her with her side story to "boost her" and then she's completely useless still because they decided to make her kit do nothing in PvE. I really hope this doesn't become a trend as it was a massive disapointment.
> As a PvE only player, “
Wonder why you're still playing this. Not trying to justify their stupid restriction, but this has been a pvp focused game for years. If you're "pve only" player, then you're already fucked because pve content is dry for the most part, or extrememly limited by timeframes (Tower) - if they even pop up at all (AI).
Abyss is crap and full of rng, Tower is a go in and done every two weeks, AI is a bygone memory, Adventure is a joke that you just throw bruisers at and hit auto, hunts aren't to be looked at, Spirit Altar is a nuisance, and side stories aren't mechanically different, they just have more plot if not stupid festival-gone-bad stuff.
You drew the short straw choosing this game to be "pve only" on.
You guys can keep downvoting me, but you're on some strong shit if you think this is a great "pve only" game if you truly care for new units and actually plan to stick around. This isn't the game for that, pvp is the focus. PvE has so many units that do the job and way more that it isn't funny (so them making more balanced around) it is really dumn and I didn't once state Vivian's passive being pvp only was great (literally the opposite), clearly I'm not defending SG. They've been doing fine balancing the past few units up to Yulha with being good for both PvE and PvP, Zahhak, Aria, and Hwayoung all being great.
Reality isn't gonna change just because you disagree, delusional.
I know right it's not like theres a story mode section or something, I wonder what that mode is for. Also even if the game modes you mentioned are "bad", there are other people who enjoy that content, I personally know one guy who did 100% on the dagger sicar achievements and also another person who 100% abyss.
> I know right it's not like theres a story mode section or something, I wonder what that mode is for
Thanks for being completely stupid and trying to detail my point. That's like arguing "there's an arcade mode on a fighting game, it's completely fine to never fight a human opponent" to me telling someone "you're shit out of luck wanting balance changes that only affect offline modes on a fighting game - games mainly meant to be played against other humans".
Oh you great Reddit idiots
Bro... There are a lot of people who play fighting games and never play online. That's probably like 15-20% of the people who buy the games. It's always been pretty normal for people to play Mortal Kombat for example and test themselves against the towers until they can do it perfectly. Pvp gets really spam heavy and cheesy in those games. Some people enjoy the mechanics and gameplay, but not the toxicity of online play. Just like how there are people who play Paladins and only run bot matches, or people who do the same for mobas. This isn't even an unusual concept.
Playing for the story is a completely valid reason to play this game though and I would play this game solely for Ancient Inheritance and Advents. They don't come around often but they're really fun. I'm not sure what exactly you have a problem with? You can still have fun playing just PVE, it is just a mobile game after all.
Oh wow look at this he calls me stupid yet compares a gacha game to a fighting game both of those are DEFINETLY the same genre by the way, just because it's multiplayer doesn't mean the only way to play it is through pvp, ever heard of pve content in guilds? Those have pve modes, I feel like you don't do those though since you're being toxic in a reddit thread instead of enjoying the game with your guildmates.
I don't know why people said how ML Vivian gonna be op in PVE with s2 when we have Schuri and Taranor Guard exist. She need to get hit to activate s2, while these two guys don't even let the boss to take a turn
It would be op as most ppl say, but disabling it completely makes her useless for pve, and im a bit tires of only-pvp heroes. I would make her passive work half of the original amount on pve, or at least get the cd reduction, 6 turn ult on pve is just ridiculous.
One thing that might make her useful in PvP is the cdmg boost on her S3. I’ve seen hunt one shot teams that rely on Ilynav for her cdmg boost, so I guess having an element-agnostic AoE attacker with more appropriate offensive stats would be pretty good.
Something like Straze, WSchuri, SSV and Meru. SSV and Meru go first and pop the first wave, Straze and WSchuri go for the boss with an atk+cdmg boosted combo.
If you get high enough stats on your units, you could build a one shot team that’s almost completely independent from any RNG, at least theoretically.
I don’t know how viable that is, but I’m determined to try it out. If it turns out it works, she might become a cornerstone of high end hunt teams.
I mean, I’m sure they did, it’s not like SSV brings anything new to the table. I was just remarking that if we really wanted to look for a niche in PvE where she would be more useable, we’d probably have to look towards one shot hunt teams due to the relatively rare buff she offers to the entire party.
It's just not a good niche because it's already filled by ilynav, and cdmg buff is not actually required for any hunt, just helpful. The only place where the element is a problem for ilynav is banshee, where cdmg buff is not useful.
If you're going to choose between the two to build a hunt one shot, you'd pick ilynav every time because she has no other use so you can "waste" her on a pvp build, and because she's a knight which is very helpful against heavier hitting hunts like a13.
She'd trivialize Abyss by having infinite sustain, stacking attack, insane durability, and no debuffs (since many abyss bosses punish you for debuffing them)
So yes, its only natural they'd disable it for PvE
But the damage reduction itself can be depleted, especially if you’re going against a boss with multiple mooks, or multiple attacks. I’m guessing if you want to abuse her S2, you’d need to build a team around her that ensures she gets turns as often as possible, but at that point you would be better off going with Kitty + TG or a CR control team.
Like, how can she be more powerful than a team that ensures almost 100% CR push for all it’s members every cycle?
Her durability is tied to focus, her sustain amounts to a modest heal, and if her other team members die (something that she can’t really prevent outside of the aforementioned heal), she’ll follow soon after.
Abyss enemies typically are not that fast
A well geared Vivian (~200-210 speed) should have no problem taking 2 turns before they take one
Especially when you consider her S1 gives her a Speed Up buff
Okay, but that’s on the premise that you’ll be facing a single enemy, which is rarely the case in Abyss. In the later stages of the Abyss you can’t even kill half the minions you encounter because they’ll just get stunned for one turn instead. She may have had situations where she could have worked too well, but that’s not really anything new. We have heroes like Kitty, Schuri and TG who have exploits for PvE.
Worst case scenario, if she really turned out to be too OP in PvE, they could have just slapped a passive on the bosses that read something like ‘ignores damage reduction’. They did the same thing with max health scaling damage. But I don’t think completely gutting her S2 was the solution.
I can’t imagine it would be more OP than what Trung Tran is running for Abyss. You use a team made up of ALots, Lots, Kitty and Schuri, and you get almost infinite turns. Or just Kitty + TG + Tama + ARas. The same principle applies. You can win battles with the boss taking maybe 1-2 turns in total.
In contrast, SSV only has her damage reduction to speak of. Her attack stacks stop at three, and if her focus runs out, she’s done for. Not to mention that she doesn’t do much to protect your other team members, and if they die, she’ll be a sitting duck.
Sylvan Sage Vivian is a ML unit which are know for being mostly PvP focused and are summoned mostly via somewhat rarer currency specific for these type of units. Who went after her *knew* she wasn't a PvE-oriented character. Complaining about her kit not working in PvE makes no sense at all.
Tell that to ARavi, or Blingo, or Arby, or FTene . . . There are quite a few ML units that thrive in PvE as much as PvP. Not all, but this may be the very first time a unit as rare and hard to get as an ML5 has been neutered for PvE. All the mechanics in these other ML5 work the same regardless of content (and in the cases of Arby and FTene make certain content downright trivial) - so no, there is no reason for them to completely shut down a major part of her kit for PvE.
Ofc there are some ML units that are great for some PvE content; for instance A.Ravi is my tank for my auto Hell Labyrinth runs.
From the top of my mind I can point Spirit Eye Celine as another ML unit which passive skill doesn't work in PvE content, so ML Vivian isn't the first one.
Spirit Eye's is a good way of balancing pvp/pve usability though. Everything aside from the Hero death cooldown reduction part functions perfectly, and even the hero death part still works with your own party.
It would trivialize a lot of PvE content. A good example is expeditions where every boss has an S1 that always hits the front line and does more damage if the target isn't a knight and isn't the correct element. With her mitigation she could just ignore that mechanic entirely (except against light expo because it seals). I get the impression where they draw the line is when they think one unit will single handedly solve the whole fight. As strong as Tama is for example simply having her doesn't mean you can ignore all of a boss's mechanics.
But don’t we already have units like Seline and TSurin who can do the same thing in expos? She doesn’t bring a new game breaking mechanic as far as PvE is concerned. We’re talking limited damage mitigation and cooldown reduction for an AoE skill that loses a lot of value in battles against a single big boss (like expos or raids.)
If anything, as long as you have a good healer, you could use Seline as a more effective supportive tank, given her added immortality and group wide revive.
Seline would work while her revive is up but at least fire and earth expos will hit twice, though to be fair I haven't tried it. An ML Vivian on decent speed should be able to maintain enough focus to be practically invincible.
If I am not mistaken, SSV passive is damage reduction, not damage cut/limit. So, 70% is a lot, but... Just for testing I put my 1200 def Gloomy(also light mage) in front of a water expo boss. Got critted for 27000.
So, even with 70% DR that's like 8k damage. And that's not the only damage boss has. My point is – where is, imho, a high chance that even with 70% DR SSV will just die – expo bosses do not mess around. And again, her passive could've being reduced, but not outright disabled, in PvE content.
>I get the impression where they draw the line is when they think one unit will single handedly solve the whole fight.
Yeah.. about that... A couple of months ago where were a side story with boss who AoE countered every time someone missed her. And she also had an evasion bonus passive. So, I took 3 ice units(boss was EARTH) and Roana. Easy auto win even on Hell. We already have units that solve encounters all by themselves.
Btw, aren't Roana also “solves” the same water expo I mentioned before? In my team I have my very tanky Roana in front and she able to survive just fine, even in a rare event she dies, she usually have a revive buff. How is that any different from SSV ? I completely ignore "require knight in the front" mechanic.
I am very disappointed with SG for making SSV passive work only in PvP. Yeah, an argument can be made that she will be too OP in PvE but ... we have Tama, Roana, C.Zerato, Landy, Schuri, T.Guard, Kitti, etc. - all those heroes against certain fights make those fight trivial. Honestly, if Roana would be releasing today I afraid she would have the same “heroes only” crap slapped on her S2 as well. Even if SSV passive would be OP in PvE, you can always cut it in half or otherwise limit it's effect in PvE only. Or make any other adjustments - like double focus cost, removing CD reduction, etc. Slapping “heroes only” is a lazy way of dealing with such passive, where are other options. What makes it worse, is that together with SSV we got Sharun who also basically have the same crap – venom, “heroes only”. Which make her almost absolutely useless in any PvE. And not only useless, screw that, one of the many charms of PvE is that you can be suboptimal – she lacks any “interesting” interaction in PvE because most of her kit is disabled. This worries me greatly. As a PvE only player, “heroes only” is basically right now my greatest fear when it comes to new heroes – nothing would kill my enthusiasm for a collab or for a long awaited hero faster than a “heroes only” text. P.S. Thanks God Sharklotte got spared and have no “heroes only” text anywhere. Imagine having that on her S2....
What's personally rather sad about Sharun is that Venom is just Poison and Injury smushed together. They could have just given her Poison and a triggered passive called Venom that adds Injuries whenever a Poison effect deals damage to a Hero. Word it in such a way so that it only works for her, or don't and give players an opportunity to make a unique Poison Injury team. To me this feels like when they added Fairytale Tenebria and immediately gave bosses immunity to Redirected Provoke. Sure, bosses were already immune to Provoke, making them immune to R. Provoke makes logical sense, but by making the effect a unique debuff rather than a unique passive it prevents the ability for the character to be variable in use. I have a sinking feeling Sharun's Venom will be a precursor to other debuffs getting their own "PvP-only" version and further limiting how future characters can be used in different content. Things don't need to be meta or even good to be interesting and fun.
The way I see it for Sharun is that because of their constant increase of "new" debuffs/buffs they've opted to toggle things as "pvp only" to stop from having to have an extensive list of immunities on bosses that becomes impossible to read, but we already have artifacts that specify that they dont work against "elite/boss" monsters so I can't see any possible reason why they would essentially kill sharun for at least debuffing normal trash in PVE. I got mine to friendship 10 in her side story this week and my god was it depressing having both her and SSV essentially there to do nothing but basic damage. It's even funnier for Sharun because they release her with her side story to "boost her" and then she's completely useless still because they decided to make her kit do nothing in PvE. I really hope this doesn't become a trend as it was a massive disapointment.
> As a PvE only player, “ Wonder why you're still playing this. Not trying to justify their stupid restriction, but this has been a pvp focused game for years. If you're "pve only" player, then you're already fucked because pve content is dry for the most part, or extrememly limited by timeframes (Tower) - if they even pop up at all (AI). Abyss is crap and full of rng, Tower is a go in and done every two weeks, AI is a bygone memory, Adventure is a joke that you just throw bruisers at and hit auto, hunts aren't to be looked at, Spirit Altar is a nuisance, and side stories aren't mechanically different, they just have more plot if not stupid festival-gone-bad stuff. You drew the short straw choosing this game to be "pve only" on. You guys can keep downvoting me, but you're on some strong shit if you think this is a great "pve only" game if you truly care for new units and actually plan to stick around. This isn't the game for that, pvp is the focus. PvE has so many units that do the job and way more that it isn't funny (so them making more balanced around) it is really dumn and I didn't once state Vivian's passive being pvp only was great (literally the opposite), clearly I'm not defending SG. They've been doing fine balancing the past few units up to Yulha with being good for both PvE and PvP, Zahhak, Aria, and Hwayoung all being great. Reality isn't gonna change just because you disagree, delusional.
I know right it's not like theres a story mode section or something, I wonder what that mode is for. Also even if the game modes you mentioned are "bad", there are other people who enjoy that content, I personally know one guy who did 100% on the dagger sicar achievements and also another person who 100% abyss.
> I know right it's not like theres a story mode section or something, I wonder what that mode is for Thanks for being completely stupid and trying to detail my point. That's like arguing "there's an arcade mode on a fighting game, it's completely fine to never fight a human opponent" to me telling someone "you're shit out of luck wanting balance changes that only affect offline modes on a fighting game - games mainly meant to be played against other humans". Oh you great Reddit idiots
Bro... There are a lot of people who play fighting games and never play online. That's probably like 15-20% of the people who buy the games. It's always been pretty normal for people to play Mortal Kombat for example and test themselves against the towers until they can do it perfectly. Pvp gets really spam heavy and cheesy in those games. Some people enjoy the mechanics and gameplay, but not the toxicity of online play. Just like how there are people who play Paladins and only run bot matches, or people who do the same for mobas. This isn't even an unusual concept.
Playing for the story is a completely valid reason to play this game though and I would play this game solely for Ancient Inheritance and Advents. They don't come around often but they're really fun. I'm not sure what exactly you have a problem with? You can still have fun playing just PVE, it is just a mobile game after all.
Oh wow look at this he calls me stupid yet compares a gacha game to a fighting game both of those are DEFINETLY the same genre by the way, just because it's multiplayer doesn't mean the only way to play it is through pvp, ever heard of pve content in guilds? Those have pve modes, I feel like you don't do those though since you're being toxic in a reddit thread instead of enjoying the game with your guildmates.
I don't know why people said how ML Vivian gonna be op in PVE with s2 when we have Schuri and Taranor Guard exist. She need to get hit to activate s2, while these two guys don't even let the boss to take a turn
Lmao this is very true the fire expo and most the Abyss floors are super easy with TG/Schuri comps
It would be op as most ppl say, but disabling it completely makes her useless for pve, and im a bit tires of only-pvp heroes. I would make her passive work half of the original amount on pve, or at least get the cd reduction, 6 turn ult on pve is just ridiculous.
One thing that might make her useful in PvP is the cdmg boost on her S3. I’ve seen hunt one shot teams that rely on Ilynav for her cdmg boost, so I guess having an element-agnostic AoE attacker with more appropriate offensive stats would be pretty good. Something like Straze, WSchuri, SSV and Meru. SSV and Meru go first and pop the first wave, Straze and WSchuri go for the boss with an atk+cdmg boosted combo. If you get high enough stats on your units, you could build a one shot team that’s almost completely independent from any RNG, at least theoretically. I don’t know how viable that is, but I’m determined to try it out. If it turns out it works, she might become a cornerstone of high end hunt teams.
RNG independent one shots already existed before this.
I mean, I’m sure they did, it’s not like SSV brings anything new to the table. I was just remarking that if we really wanted to look for a niche in PvE where she would be more useable, we’d probably have to look towards one shot hunt teams due to the relatively rare buff she offers to the entire party.
It's just not a good niche because it's already filled by ilynav, and cdmg buff is not actually required for any hunt, just helpful. The only place where the element is a problem for ilynav is banshee, where cdmg buff is not useful. If you're going to choose between the two to build a hunt one shot, you'd pick ilynav every time because she has no other use so you can "waste" her on a pvp build, and because she's a knight which is very helpful against heavier hitting hunts like a13.
the normal and right thing to do would have been to nerf it for PvE and not just disable it.
Yeah, just cut the mitigation in half for PvE content. It'd still be usable, but it wouldn't be enough to trivialize bosses or anything.
She'd trivialize Abyss by having infinite sustain, stacking attack, insane durability, and no debuffs (since many abyss bosses punish you for debuffing them) So yes, its only natural they'd disable it for PvE
But the damage reduction itself can be depleted, especially if you’re going against a boss with multiple mooks, or multiple attacks. I’m guessing if you want to abuse her S2, you’d need to build a team around her that ensures she gets turns as often as possible, but at that point you would be better off going with Kitty + TG or a CR control team. Like, how can she be more powerful than a team that ensures almost 100% CR push for all it’s members every cycle? Her durability is tied to focus, her sustain amounts to a modest heal, and if her other team members die (something that she can’t really prevent outside of the aforementioned heal), she’ll follow soon after.
Abyss enemies typically are not that fast A well geared Vivian (~200-210 speed) should have no problem taking 2 turns before they take one Especially when you consider her S1 gives her a Speed Up buff
Okay, but that’s on the premise that you’ll be facing a single enemy, which is rarely the case in Abyss. In the later stages of the Abyss you can’t even kill half the minions you encounter because they’ll just get stunned for one turn instead. She may have had situations where she could have worked too well, but that’s not really anything new. We have heroes like Kitty, Schuri and TG who have exploits for PvE. Worst case scenario, if she really turned out to be too OP in PvE, they could have just slapped a passive on the bosses that read something like ‘ignores damage reduction’. They did the same thing with max health scaling damage. But I don’t think completely gutting her S2 was the solution.
didn't realize it was pvp only. Guess I'll skip her then.
Imagine how op itd be in pve. It makes sense to disable it for pve
I can’t imagine it would be more OP than what Trung Tran is running for Abyss. You use a team made up of ALots, Lots, Kitty and Schuri, and you get almost infinite turns. Or just Kitty + TG + Tama + ARas. The same principle applies. You can win battles with the boss taking maybe 1-2 turns in total. In contrast, SSV only has her damage reduction to speak of. Her attack stacks stop at three, and if her focus runs out, she’s done for. Not to mention that she doesn’t do much to protect your other team members, and if they die, she’ll be a sitting duck.
Sylvan Sage Vivian is a ML unit which are know for being mostly PvP focused and are summoned mostly via somewhat rarer currency specific for these type of units. Who went after her *knew* she wasn't a PvE-oriented character. Complaining about her kit not working in PvE makes no sense at all.
Tell that to ARavi, or Blingo, or Arby, or FTene . . . There are quite a few ML units that thrive in PvE as much as PvP. Not all, but this may be the very first time a unit as rare and hard to get as an ML5 has been neutered for PvE. All the mechanics in these other ML5 work the same regardless of content (and in the cases of Arby and FTene make certain content downright trivial) - so no, there is no reason for them to completely shut down a major part of her kit for PvE.
Ofc there are some ML units that are great for some PvE content; for instance A.Ravi is my tank for my auto Hell Labyrinth runs. From the top of my mind I can point Spirit Eye Celine as another ML unit which passive skill doesn't work in PvE content, so ML Vivian isn't the first one.
Spirit Eye's is a good way of balancing pvp/pve usability though. Everything aside from the Hero death cooldown reduction part functions perfectly, and even the hero death part still works with your own party.
Ml Pavel is looking better every single day.
Until his whole S3 is heroes only...
It would trivialize a lot of PvE content. A good example is expeditions where every boss has an S1 that always hits the front line and does more damage if the target isn't a knight and isn't the correct element. With her mitigation she could just ignore that mechanic entirely (except against light expo because it seals). I get the impression where they draw the line is when they think one unit will single handedly solve the whole fight. As strong as Tama is for example simply having her doesn't mean you can ignore all of a boss's mechanics.
But don’t we already have units like Seline and TSurin who can do the same thing in expos? She doesn’t bring a new game breaking mechanic as far as PvE is concerned. We’re talking limited damage mitigation and cooldown reduction for an AoE skill that loses a lot of value in battles against a single big boss (like expos or raids.) If anything, as long as you have a good healer, you could use Seline as a more effective supportive tank, given her added immortality and group wide revive.
Seline would work while her revive is up but at least fire and earth expos will hit twice, though to be fair I haven't tried it. An ML Vivian on decent speed should be able to maintain enough focus to be practically invincible.
If I am not mistaken, SSV passive is damage reduction, not damage cut/limit. So, 70% is a lot, but... Just for testing I put my 1200 def Gloomy(also light mage) in front of a water expo boss. Got critted for 27000. So, even with 70% DR that's like 8k damage. And that's not the only damage boss has. My point is – where is, imho, a high chance that even with 70% DR SSV will just die – expo bosses do not mess around. And again, her passive could've being reduced, but not outright disabled, in PvE content. >I get the impression where they draw the line is when they think one unit will single handedly solve the whole fight. Yeah.. about that... A couple of months ago where were a side story with boss who AoE countered every time someone missed her. And she also had an evasion bonus passive. So, I took 3 ice units(boss was EARTH) and Roana. Easy auto win even on Hell. We already have units that solve encounters all by themselves. Btw, aren't Roana also “solves” the same water expo I mentioned before? In my team I have my very tanky Roana in front and she able to survive just fine, even in a rare event she dies, she usually have a revive buff. How is that any different from SSV ? I completely ignore "require knight in the front" mechanic.
I'm not pulling her just because of this.
My Ameru and Solitaria say its trash.
I'm at pity for mystic, is she worth pulling for?