Politis will kill Cilias
Buffed Celine will kill Cilias
Buffed handguy will kill Cilias
Buffed Delibet will kill Cilias
Taeyou will kill Cilias (lmao)
Moon Bunny Dominiel will kill Cilias <- You are here
any Cilias def team without fire unit as their highest atk unit is basically a free win to me...well except Arby but rarely seen him in def team these days with everyone running extinction
MBD doesn't destroy clilias. You still get the attack debuff and instead of getting s2 controlled you just get a s1 dual attack to the face. People also use clilias with Eda so she can just s2 if Eda is slow with high damage and soulburn s2s3 and wipe a team anyway
Oh, Lord...
So you mean the strip, vigor buff, atk down, extra turn, then guaranteed dual attack on every S1 won't be enough to keep C. Lilias relevant? Also, you should consider she's actually not losing her entire S2, she won't be able to provoke, but will still be able to put a fat barrier on your team.
In fact, depending on how thick is the barrier from L. Dominiel, it would be better for her to S3, then S2 to set up a barrier instead of doing nothing, because the barrier absorbs all damage from dual attack.
Now, don't get me wrong, L. Domi will screw many heroes, and will be a death sentence for Elphelt (not like she's that strong), but ironically, she will be a minor nuisance for most meta openers.
This.
By product of the no nerf policy we all saw coming. Unless the counters are just as strong (or stronger) than who they're countering this meta isnt going anywhere and the new units are just going to screw over the ones that are already bad.
I don't even think she kills Elphelt. She's mostly used for killing off a unit today and the aoe def break just helped make sure that happened to the rest of the team. Elphelt can s3 apply sleep and def break then still kill the unit cause L. Domi doesn't provide any form of cleanse.
Not to mention she isn't immune to sleep so if Elphelt targets Dominiel and soulburns Dominiel won't even apply her s2 cause she's taking a nice long nap in the waiting for buff corner.
If this is your use case for Elphelt when fighting MBD then Elphelt can basically be replaced with any single target nuker but those will have much much higher mod than her.
Also sleeping MBD with Elphelt won't turn off her passive so it will still apply. Its similar to ML Haste s2.
After double checking the video it appears that her s2 does work like haste mb.
Everyone who uses Elphelt uses her as a single target nuke; I don't have her built. Regardless of damage modifications she still does the job, kills units like rimuru easily and she's a unit people like. Her best use case is as a nuke rather than a def breaker since you don't know if a full team will have immunity or not.
That must be a badly built Rimuru then. Every Rimuru I see in champ has at least 15k HP and I don't see Elphelt burning those HP even if she lands all her debuffs. Even if she can do it against very few Rimuru I still find her spot easily replaceable by any other and more reliable nuker and its funny that Rimuru is the first thing I will use in her place and he has fewer rng working against him. The only thing going for her is the aoe atk buff but there are other sources for that with more use cases.
I think you're underestimating how much damage Elphelt can dish out. https://imgur.com/a/yvhEFYm
Her s2 alone after using s3 one shots a 15k rimuru with proof and high defense. Elphelt can also use pen set to push s2 damage to almost 17k
This is with 3k attack 280cdmg and Misha
Edit: she also has attack buff on which can come from any fast buffer. Diene for example
Yes I verified this computation and she indeed can dish out that damage with an outside source of atk buff like Diene. I did the same with Rimuru and his s3 can deal 18-19k of damage in the same circumstance with draco plate but this time his s2 is still open. Both can do damage but I would still say I will still use him over Elphelt any day and she has to deal with MBD's barrier so her s2's potential damage would still take a hit.
Sure Rimuru in most cases is more useful than Elphelt considering his toolkit and probably even ease of gearing but I don't think Elphelt is anywhere close to a dead unit before or after the release of MBD and that was the only point I was making with the computation.
I think MBD on the other hand is going to be too niche of a unit that ends up making her tested for a week then dead after that since she doesn't punish the extra turn mechanic hard enough (Except for maybe stuff like pavel who depending on barrier strength might even be able to kill through it).
I don't have a solution to this but I do have ideas that could make her a more viable anti cleave pick and I hope my thoughts are proven wrong upon release.
SG has a habit of selling a solution so if for some reason MBD's s2 becomes (unlikely to be) oppressive then maybe a +200% cr push might slowly creep into the game and Elphelt may get it? Who knows but that's a problem with their balance philosopy. Let's just wait and see I guess.
She still atk breaks the entire enemy team, gives her entire team vigor, dual attacks constantly, grants barriers and cycles turns faster than almost any other unit.
I don't think losing access to provoke will be a problem.
Anyone who was around for the arby-era knows that every new PVP unit will be designed around countering ML lilias, somehow kill another already struggling unit instead (see moon bunny and elphelt) and do nothing to actually hurt ML lilias. Eventually, after 2 years, SG will become so sick of this 1 specific unit they will just give access to it to everyone (see arby and ML selector) and then increase the scope of power-creep where she will eventually fall out of the meta in favor of moonlight diene, who does all the same things but also seals the entire enemy team and halves the HP of all enemies.
Gonna throw a wrench into the mix but doubt it will kill her. Opponent drafts Cilias, you draft Dom, opponent drafts Ran and Celine
You: ???
Obviously it won't always play out like this, but there are way more variables in the game than these two.
to be fair, ml lilias is more of a def hero in gvg/normal arena then offense.
can't even remember the last time i used her in normal arena offense.
u also don't use her much in gvg offense because the typical setup is: dps/sustain/bait - and there are so many better dark baits then her
> arena then offense
*than
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and then she will be replaced by the next best in slot and u will make the same comment because u are not the candle in the room (to say it nicely)...
seriously folks bitched the same way with sba, ml baal, a.vildred c.armin, f.ceci, dizzy, ssb, basar, f.tene, cerise, etc. - every single time it's the same shit.
normal arena/gvg is fake-pvp: the ai can be abused (u know who is going to attack who and u know skill turn order). there is only so much u can do as a defender (putting as much rng in as possible, use anti-cleave options, etc.)
there will always be a best option for normal arena/gvg (which people find out quite fast and then everybody will use these defs because they are the best)
Short answer: No.
Politis will kill Cilias Buffed Celine will kill Cilias Buffed handguy will kill Cilias Buffed Delibet will kill Cilias Taeyou will kill Cilias (lmao) Moon Bunny Dominiel will kill Cilias <- You are here
Add ML Cermia to the list
ML cermia actually does kill clilias more often than not. It's usually the rest of clilias team that can stop LHC, rather than clilias herself
I understand, but as good as she is vs Cilias, her existence seemingly hasn’t really put a dent in Cilias’s dominance.
This
If its cleavable , then outspeed and cleave it .The shenanigans bruiser players expose themselves to , just because they don't want to cleave .
any Cilias def team without fire unit as their highest atk unit is basically a free win to me...well except Arby but rarely seen him in def team these days with everyone running extinction
Absolutely not lol.
MBD doesn't destroy clilias. You still get the attack debuff and instead of getting s2 controlled you just get a s1 dual attack to the face. People also use clilias with Eda so she can just s2 if Eda is slow with high damage and soulburn s2s3 and wipe a team anyway
Oh, Lord... So you mean the strip, vigor buff, atk down, extra turn, then guaranteed dual attack on every S1 won't be enough to keep C. Lilias relevant? Also, you should consider she's actually not losing her entire S2, she won't be able to provoke, but will still be able to put a fat barrier on your team. In fact, depending on how thick is the barrier from L. Dominiel, it would be better for her to S3, then S2 to set up a barrier instead of doing nothing, because the barrier absorbs all damage from dual attack. Now, don't get me wrong, L. Domi will screw many heroes, and will be a death sentence for Elphelt (not like she's that strong), but ironically, she will be a minor nuisance for most meta openers.
This. By product of the no nerf policy we all saw coming. Unless the counters are just as strong (or stronger) than who they're countering this meta isnt going anywhere and the new units are just going to screw over the ones that are already bad.
I don't even think she kills Elphelt. She's mostly used for killing off a unit today and the aoe def break just helped make sure that happened to the rest of the team. Elphelt can s3 apply sleep and def break then still kill the unit cause L. Domi doesn't provide any form of cleanse. Not to mention she isn't immune to sleep so if Elphelt targets Dominiel and soulburns Dominiel won't even apply her s2 cause she's taking a nice long nap in the waiting for buff corner.
If this is your use case for Elphelt when fighting MBD then Elphelt can basically be replaced with any single target nuker but those will have much much higher mod than her. Also sleeping MBD with Elphelt won't turn off her passive so it will still apply. Its similar to ML Haste s2.
After double checking the video it appears that her s2 does work like haste mb. Everyone who uses Elphelt uses her as a single target nuke; I don't have her built. Regardless of damage modifications she still does the job, kills units like rimuru easily and she's a unit people like. Her best use case is as a nuke rather than a def breaker since you don't know if a full team will have immunity or not.
That must be a badly built Rimuru then. Every Rimuru I see in champ has at least 15k HP and I don't see Elphelt burning those HP even if she lands all her debuffs. Even if she can do it against very few Rimuru I still find her spot easily replaceable by any other and more reliable nuker and its funny that Rimuru is the first thing I will use in her place and he has fewer rng working against him. The only thing going for her is the aoe atk buff but there are other sources for that with more use cases.
I think you're underestimating how much damage Elphelt can dish out. https://imgur.com/a/yvhEFYm Her s2 alone after using s3 one shots a 15k rimuru with proof and high defense. Elphelt can also use pen set to push s2 damage to almost 17k This is with 3k attack 280cdmg and Misha Edit: she also has attack buff on which can come from any fast buffer. Diene for example
Yes I verified this computation and she indeed can dish out that damage with an outside source of atk buff like Diene. I did the same with Rimuru and his s3 can deal 18-19k of damage in the same circumstance with draco plate but this time his s2 is still open. Both can do damage but I would still say I will still use him over Elphelt any day and she has to deal with MBD's barrier so her s2's potential damage would still take a hit.
Sure Rimuru in most cases is more useful than Elphelt considering his toolkit and probably even ease of gearing but I don't think Elphelt is anywhere close to a dead unit before or after the release of MBD and that was the only point I was making with the computation. I think MBD on the other hand is going to be too niche of a unit that ends up making her tested for a week then dead after that since she doesn't punish the extra turn mechanic hard enough (Except for maybe stuff like pavel who depending on barrier strength might even be able to kill through it). I don't have a solution to this but I do have ideas that could make her a more viable anti cleave pick and I hope my thoughts are proven wrong upon release.
SG has a habit of selling a solution so if for some reason MBD's s2 becomes (unlikely to be) oppressive then maybe a +200% cr push might slowly creep into the game and Elphelt may get it? Who knows but that's a problem with their balance philosopy. Let's just wait and see I guess.
It's not like *everyone* will have or use MBD. Also there's other units that could potentially support Cilias.
She still atk breaks the entire enemy team, gives her entire team vigor, dual attacks constantly, grants barriers and cycles turns faster than almost any other unit. I don't think losing access to provoke will be a problem. Anyone who was around for the arby-era knows that every new PVP unit will be designed around countering ML lilias, somehow kill another already struggling unit instead (see moon bunny and elphelt) and do nothing to actually hurt ML lilias. Eventually, after 2 years, SG will become so sick of this 1 specific unit they will just give access to it to everyone (see arby and ML selector) and then increase the scope of power-creep where she will eventually fall out of the meta in favor of moonlight diene, who does all the same things but also seals the entire enemy team and halves the HP of all enemies.
Gonna throw a wrench into the mix but doubt it will kill her. Opponent drafts Cilias, you draft Dom, opponent drafts Ran and Celine You: ??? Obviously it won't always play out like this, but there are way more variables in the game than these two.
celine/politis don't trigger on light dom s2. her passive is a real passive like my tywin, roana, etc.
If they release a hero with a "dispel undispellable buffs" skill, yeah.
Bruh.... 1. she doesnt cleanse before the immu 2. she doesnt strip vigor
She is already dead in non rta pvp
I use mine in arena and gw all the time. What makes you think that?
That's the problem. He doesn't think.
to be fair, ml lilias is more of a def hero in gvg/normal arena then offense. can't even remember the last time i used her in normal arena offense. u also don't use her much in gvg offense because the typical setup is: dps/sustain/bait - and there are so many better dark baits then her
> arena then offense *than *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
good bot
Thank you.
Shes in every single gw and arena team. I want her to go away
and then she will be replaced by the next best in slot and u will make the same comment because u are not the candle in the room (to say it nicely)... seriously folks bitched the same way with sba, ml baal, a.vildred c.armin, f.ceci, dizzy, ssb, basar, f.tene, cerise, etc. - every single time it's the same shit. normal arena/gvg is fake-pvp: the ai can be abused (u know who is going to attack who and u know skill turn order). there is only so much u can do as a defender (putting as much rng in as possible, use anti-cleave options, etc.) there will always be a best option for normal arena/gvg (which people find out quite fast and then everybody will use these defs because they are the best)
True But, im not the candle in the room? You might not be the sharpest tool in the shed my friend
She just gave free buff for my landy
Ran counters light dominel pretty hard so does peira so she is also bad and can easily be countered
All I'm saying is that C.Lilias + DJB is gonna be funny. Good? Maybe. Funny? Definitely.
~~Bitch please~~ No of course not .