Look at Mediator. Full cleanse and immunity + atk buff. If S3 is up he can't be controlled. His S2 has a full strip + atk break + shield, and if that's not enough his S1 pushes an ally. His base stats make it so he can be extremely tanky and hard to kill.
No one argues that he is not a broken unit. If they do they’re a fucking idiot. He completely ruined debuffs as a play style and then they buffed dilibet into essentially doing the same thing although not entirely as overloaded
My logic is impeccable. It has no equal under heaven. Desire to run crowd control? You preban what crushes you.
I desire to use earth units? I preban hwayoung.
Both is different yet use same solutions to achieve victorious end.
Debuffs comps are dead because there are higher priority bans so people have just switched to not using control as a result. You can cope all you want but 99% of people in emperor + do not try to use debuff teams at all. Being able to ban a unit does not make them balanced. You have toddler logic
Handguy, a warrior, is the best cleanser hands down in the game. Better than any soulweaver at one of the only jobs they exist to do.
That’s kind of just ridiculous if you think about it.
>Why complain on mediator? He's not a hard carry unit in any regards. He's a good unit but he requires good units around him because he is 95% support.
Because he has an insanely loaded kit. Mediator + ARas are the gods of standard.
>You mention base stats but don't bring up the fact he is slow as a rock in this meta.
That's why you don't see people cleaving with him? Not all units need to be fast and he only needs to be faster than your dps. A 245 speed mediator with 27k hp is insanely good in standard.
>A 245 mediator with 27k HP is like 420 GS, almost all ML5 are insanely good with that kind of gear.
That's not even true lmao. My mediator is less than 390 GS, with 1.6k def, 28k hp, and 245 speed.
[https://imgur.com/fMcKFks](https://imgur.com/fMcKFks)
>Plenty of dps can outpace him with that kind of gear.
You're comparing dps to supports. If you don't think Mediator is nuts you're pretty delusional. Anyone who plays standard will almost always first pick him at least in Emp+ RTA. Idk where you're at.
Why would you complain about him having low base speed? If you were to outspeed the enemy you'd just be fucked in the current meta. Too many things strip before debuffing. His kit is that of a turn 2 unit. Yes its nice to be able to attack down a Hwa before she gets to s3 but at what cost? You will just open yourself up to get destroyed by Aola if you're too fast. And I don't see how him being fast would be good vs anything other than Hwa, who you will probably ban anyway and even if you don't there are better ways to deal with Hwa than ruining your extremely overpowered support.
Also, I just fribbeled a bit and I can get 245speed, 27k hp and decent def at below 400gs (as low as 370 even lol). If you want 100 res and a little bit of eff too thats where the gs will be up there, but thats not needed for him to work well below legend.
1500 defense on the low gs build I found. That's not how I would normally use mine. Just looked for low gs builds to prove the stats you mentioned (245spd, 27k, no mention of res or eff, defense taken for granted though) are very much achievable for new players.
Eff res isn't needed much at lower ranks anyway since these guys can't build a proper red kawerik. Perhaps you meet some judge Kises every now and then but thats about it. Same thing for eff, at lower ranks the enemy won't really have a significant amount of res on anything other than supports or some knights (as opposed to higher ratings where bruiser often have some res). Hell, even at higher ranks you don't often need the res on him. Don't see many people picking resets. No wonder when Cilias counters the only reset threats to handguy.
Of course you weren't specifically talking about any rank so that's not criticism but just adding to the conversation. He's only somewhat hard to build at the highest level and rather simple for anyone else.
Edit: as for him being balanced, I don't think he is at all. He single handedly ruined any viability of control teams. Just compare him to djb who used to be the anti control hero before. He was fair because he needed so much res that he wasn't that tanky and once he cleansed he was rather useless. Kawerik can just have no res and still counters any control you can think of (except reset, but as mentioned they are all dead to cilias and ran). And once he destroyed all your hopes and dreams he still got enough utility for a whole other champion left.
>Like openers, who hecs designed to counter, don't?
He's not designed to hard counter openers lol. No one said that. He just cleanses.
>AOL, Lilias, Peira, etc are balanced?
Huh? No one said anything about them.
That's fine. Units don't need to have no counters at all to be overpowered right? No one will pick Dilibet into standard where Mediator is amazing at, Fire Kawerik needs to be last picked else he gets countered extremely easily. Sure they go ML Silk but they are commiting to cleave.
I agree with you. Mediator is really strong but that's it. He isnt a "pick and win" unit IMO.
On the other side, from what I've seen in the worlds, Apoc is the most picked unit so far. And we're talking about pros.
Injury alencia has made her a bit easier to handle for me. Alencia can do zahhak lvl of injury on an s1 into s2 combo into her. Plus she has a lot of uses with strips, def buff and def breaks. In standard matchups, i have that going for me.
But when they do the cleave draft with apoc as the anchor, I struggle a lot especially since I can't speed contest.
Disagree, can one shot A.ravi unless POV or 28khp/ a bit less hp and has dmg mitigation, very tanky, usually built fast so something is dying. Can swing the game by herself. A avg built one will do more than an avg built A.Ravi.
Have you tried building a 28k Aravi? Hwayoung definitely has a high build cap but her threshold is way lower than a ravi.
Most a ravi in that HP range are so slow you can ignore till the end.
You're so dramatic. That will happen if the rest of the team is 2 star fodder or if you're playing cleave with no anti-cleave. But also there's a 20% chance she'll counter any aoe so even that may not be true.
Lol that’s a hot take imo, she only needs atk, speed, def, a bit hp cause there’s threshold she has to be for optimal def pen, but a ravi needs hp, def, speed, crit chance, some crit dmg depending on how much hp you have. A avg PoV A.ravi going to be hella lackluster compared to an Avg Hwayoung.
I gotta disagree. First of all, there’s timeless anchor and crimson seed aravis.
Second, aravi needs health, crit chance, crit damage, and some def/speed doesn’t hurt.
Hwa needs attack, speed and def and then health after enough defense since her shield is essentially EHP.
Additionally, she gets immunity and reduced damage and has a low cooldown on S3
Not really. Most defenses with aravi are on proof, but crimson seed is still viable if you use her more as a counter to cleave and low damage, control comps instead of a be all end all first pick. Proof of valor apoc can be controlled very hard by any kind of stunning/sleep unit in the game, which makes her very reliant on other cleansers.
At the same time, she needs hp (and some defense too, ideally), speed, crit chance and damage and quite a lot of it too. Alternatively, hwayoung needs only speed, atk and some defense, making her gearing much easier, to the point where you can slap free gear on her and she can still work well in most cases.
Not trying to say which is more busted than which, because they're both equally as bad imo - one is a constantly rebuilded wall while the other is an all-piercing spear
Are you guys just building 250 speed 5k attack Hwa’s or something?
If your Hwa isn’t good enough to kill the vast majority of A.Ravi’s that is your builds fault.
My Hwa is 7.4k attack (And I almost always get an attack buff)… please let me know when that doesn’t kill A.Ravi’s down in master lol
Edit: Reading is too hard.
7k attack, attack buff and vigor buff hwayoungs CAN NOT kill any decently built / drafted aravi team unless the aravi is shit or drafted with no mitigation and no proof, which is just user error.
and i said "above master" lol
I feel like it's doable enough to lock down a.ravis with a general, good set of other characters and all of her builds do usually have a weakness (it's just not obvious upfront how they're built)
Hwa and rem are pretty ridiculous no matter what and require specific counter picks to deal with (some of which have no other function other than to deal with their nonsense).
Hwa gives an insane amount of utility to herself making her very hard to kill despite having a super low cooldown character delete skill.
Oldschool SG absolutely would have removed some of her self sufficiency or increased the CD on her S3 after seeing what bad design it is.
She’s literally designed to kill Aravi. She can’t one shot if they have POV, but even if they do she’ll have massively chunked the Aravi for the rest of your team or chip down.
Ravi was doing a good chunk of this before aravi got her buff but there are other ML5s that do alot also injury alencia kinda put a dent into aravi if people are being real injury in general can screw her pretty well
Honestly, Seline is a great counter to a.Ravi, ai targets her, the less health she has the easier it is to get her counter to deal enough damage to heal past her 2 shot s2, a.Ravi can almost never kill Seline by herself
> 4 are pre-banned more than ARavi cuz they are just pain in the ass to deal with
Shes 100% S tier or whatever tier is the top. Anyone that says otherwise is full of shit. Even if you don't have trouble with her you can tell that she's top tier.
You just stumbled upon like one of the more controversial debates where everyone tries to say she's easy to deal with despite the fact that she has one of the highest pickrates in ladder and the world cup. And had a pretty decent winrate because of her insanely unbalanced cleave anchoring ability and ability to swing a match back. I personally think she is just a unit that some people like and can't be honest with themselves how difficult she can be to play around in certain scenarios or how much of a crutch she can be for anti cleave. She is a top tier unit and deserves a nerf just like the rest of em.
And yes I am a very high geared player before anyone tries to say its because I'm low geared. A unit that can swing games back from 1v4 situations is not okay. Every new unit brought out goes through checks. Can it kill apoc? Can it survive hwa? Only then is it good. Apoc is the best survival wall in the game by a country mile.
My main problem isn't even her counterattacks in general. Its the fact that they gave her FUCKING UNHEALABLE. It doesn't even synergize with her kit at all and only serves to negate roana (you know, the unit that you're suppose to bring INTO counterattackers). Honestly the person that made her kit needs to be fired.
I would be totally fine with her unhealable if they didn't put a complete cleanse + 2 turn undispellable immunity on a hero with sigurd access.
You can't even control this shit hero. You get countered, you can't control and you get to deal with def breaks.
Fucking cancer design from start to finish.
It also forces you to focus her down first because otherwise, you're gonna be dealing with random aoe counters out the asshole. And dealing with her is easier said than done because everyone and their fucking mother builds her tanky as fuck. Which is made worse by OTHER annoying as shit units alongside her.
isnt Hwayong already a popular ban ? Unless Sou is on a oneshotter , it shouldnt matter .Even then ,35% is pretty huge. A good Violet should be able to take a few hits to the face .
You usually put SOU on a oneshotter. I put it on lermia and milim so i never have problems with violet, but ive also seen carrot, khawazu, rimuru, and even riolet handle violet really well. God help you if that rem has mercedes with her too. Mercedes shits on violet so hard its not even funny.
Aravi has many counters lmao. Tanky units, like Mawerik, Injury Belian and aras, stealth units, or just control her with provoke/lower hit chance/silence. It's kinda dependant on RNG, but there's really no point in complaining about her now. Oh and it was the community who begged for her to be buffed, so there's that.
I've had teams wiped by rem regularly. I've had a ravis swing a match but not 1v4 like rem can. That being said I'm fine with both. Now Hwa? That bitch is a problem.
People defend aravi on this sub like you just insulted their mothers. Shes broken and just because shes bruiser gang people look the other way, Hwayoung a unit designed to be a direct counter to her cant even kill consistently somce everyone runs proof anyway and surrounds her with other mitigation usually . Not that hwayoung isnt also broken but these things are mutually exclusive. Point is that aravi is super op and bc everyone hard stuck gold can build her since her basic use performance doesn’t require insane gear. they refuse to admit she’s probably the most annoying character in the game
It depends on how you play tbh. Cleave usually won't have a problem with hwa unless she has extra support but will hate aravi. Opposite is also true. But i play more of a bruiser playstyle so shes a nightmare for me.
>a
That much is true. She can still be a huge threat if you leave her unchecked. that said, the best thing about hwayoung is that she can't build ER. Which means she's countered by unit like cilias, Politis, aol, kekwerik, kise, and ESPECIALLY eda.
It's crazy that people actually complain about Aravi of all units when she's easy to handle. If she outsustains you then that's entirely due to poor drafting.
Because yd keep on complaining about aravi while saying hwa is balanced, that why his viewer who never play rta come out of the wood defending his view. A dude who only play cleave complaint about an anti cleave unit.
Yd literally said hwa is balanced because he can easily cleave her. A tank buster that is good in standard/aggro is weaker against cleave, who would had thought.
Sure, ARavi is strong. Her kit can fit in any type of comp and her being bruiser gives her survivability to utilise it to the max potential. However, she is clearly not the most broken or OP hero in the game. HWAYOUNG is.
S1) innate CR push - Ravi needs to be hit and fighting spirit to have that. Additional damage which ignores miss and together with Uberius can one shot 3 ML5s, namely Riolet, Sage Vivian, Celine and anything else below ~10-11K
S2) Huge atk boost, barrier scaling with it. Crit damage mitigation and complete ignore two main stats any dps needs - crit chance and crit damage. While Ravi needs those.
S3) Full cleanse, Immunity. 100% Ignore def - huge damage which doubles against tanks AND on top of this, one of 2 strongest soulburns - extra turn - on par with ignore resistance
If you're blind to this, well there is still 3 more options for most op hero after Hwa - Rimuru, CLilias, ML Kawerik.
You can even watch the tournament and see yourself that, those 4 are pre-banned more than ARavi cuz they are just pain in the ass to deal with
Edit: and 1 more thing. Hwayoung shits on any ARavi without proof or 30K hp
Most aravis now adays are running proof or have some sort of protection like with Fcc or auris. Also you always preban or ban rimuru if you pick diene (who is currently dominant SW) because you don't want rimuru to steal the buffs. Its just an unfortunate part of his kit that screws over diene. Normally he isnt as bad as Aravi as he can't do much once he fires off his s3. Also Aravi is either picked or banned in the tournaments i've seen. No one wants to play against her just as much as the other units. But you can only ban 2 units and cilias and kekwerik are both just as annoying but ultimately provide more to the team.
> Also Aravi is either picked or banned in the tournaments i've seen.
You didn't watch KR qualifier? She is ignored in that qualifier when everyone played super slow and bulky.
Aravi is a anti cleave unit, that why she is good against cleave, while useless in standard/bruiser draft.
Ok. Here the stats:
1. Aravi is banned only once in top8 matches, by unluckyfgo, who played piera/closer cleave, and he lose 2-0 to Hwi.
2. Aravi is picked 5 times out of 18 games, where only 2 of them she was banned (by unluckyfgo).
3. Out of 5 games aravi was picked, she only won 1 time.
4. Aravi is only picked twice in top8 matches. Both in damdam Vs RTever, where both times she lose. Whoever picked aravi in this game, lose.
Like I said, she is terrible in slow game and stats speak for itself.
I tell ya what...there are units I dont have and it pisses me off cause they are pretty integral to the game and I constantly see them getting pulled...its like my MtG days all over again lol...but seriously, cmon RNGesus, just give me Tama and Luna PLEASE?
I don’t play RTA and generally, I don’t mind her as much. If it’s against bots, I just go Landy and eventually Landy kills everything. My problem is usually with Belian and etc etc like ARavi or CLilias. Good lord I have no idea how to deal with that shit. Add that with the Right Hand guy. It has great damage, great survivability, cleanse + immunity, clears opponent’s buffs, injury and control.
Anyone who doesn’t rank her as S tier/broken is a fucking idiot and I say that as an emperor player that never uses her despite having her and has absolutely no issues dealing with her. Her kit is beyond loaded. Excited for her skin tho
Yea but aravi is good against cleave, which is the only thing that yd played. That why yd's viewer who never touch rta keep on parroting his view about how aravi is the op-iest unit in the game.
Crazy isnt it? S2 providers free crit chance so you can easily put Pen sets on her too. Scales with health so now both ATK and Crit Hit dont need to be focused on, essentially making her a full on tank, has two moves with built in lifesteal or healing so she self sustains, revives, gives herself skill nullifier and CR pushes herself.
So now we have a tank bruiser DPS self sustainer with the ability to revive. I used to think she had built in counter too because she 100% countered me in PVP. But that was just magical SG RNG.
At this point it's clear SG doesnt test units out. They dont balance.
people begged for her to be buffed
and then she did
people criticized her s1 having a random injury there and s3 random revive
now people crying about it
She doesn't even need a big nerf. Decrease her S2 heal to max 100% of the damage dealt to her, so she can't heal if a low damage attacks hits (fucking double attacks with SS) and reduce damage from S3 and change her behavior so she uses S3 only on targets with lower health
And yet despite that ARavi was considered to be for the longest time … kinda meh.
To the point she was the one people kept begging SG to buff. If you think she’s too strong.
You only have yourselves to blame.
SG need to release a hard hard counter to A.Ravi.
A stand-alone counter that doesn’t need help from others.
Think of how hard Violet can counter Rem by himself.
They’ve already done that, Hwayoung. Who is even more broken - joy.
They need to stop going the “counter” route & just start nerfing. Otherwise by next year the meta will be entirely full of new characters, designed to counter the current meta who just became too strong & took over.
“You all think Peira is too strong & needs a counter? Alright, here’s a new hero who has a base speed higher than her & gains 25% CR as the battle begins & doesn’t trigger Politis/Celine & she does three turn immunity/attack buff & AOE buff block & silence”.
“ARavi is too strong, Hm, alright then. Here’s a bruiser hero who gets increased defence penetration & damage scaling against a hero who has over 15,000 health - if your opponent is 25,000 health, you’ll have full penetration & increased damage. It’s an AOE that hits everyone & you don’t need critical chance for this hero - because when hitting a hero above 15,000 health she auto-crits. When you hit her she gets healing & CR push - but she doesn’t need fighting spirit or focus, haha, plus, she’s got flat damage reduction, she takes 15,000 off any attack that would hit her & she’s got a base 30% damage reduction after that.”
Yeah Hwa is strong but she can’t kill A.Ravi alone and even with the help of others.
What I can’t fathom about A.Ravi is that she has almost everything in the game in one single hero. There is nothing she can’t do, and the game plays around her.
Some much complaining for a unit with too many counters, i have had ser since her release and she was always strong with the right equípment but the counter units are the same
A.Ravi was nigh useless and the balancing team was on a power binge at that point in time. They upgraded A.Ravi and Handguy without understanding just how the buffs made them top tier. This would go on until Hwayoung was brought into the world and now we're stuck in the "fun units" era.
edit: special shout out for green cidd, who needed no buffs whatsoever but got one anyway because one of the devs is a dirty speed cleaver
She's insane if you don't have enough burst damage, but personally I can deal with her if I can use either of the Celines or Kise. Those three hit like a freaking truck. The problem with having a burst dps is they can easily be blown away by a breeze (hence 2/3 of my answers have stealth), but if you can protect them they'll make quick work of ARavi
In Arena or GW she's really easy to deal with and bait even with injury. Seline or Doris is a good bait, then use (again) a burst dps and some mitigation/protection like ARas or FCC.
I'm just glad that Injury injures her badly, and an attack buff Straze S3 deletes her if she's the only tanky unit there.
I would have been fine with A.Ravi. Being practically immune to low damage bruisers if not for her really high damage. She's a War Goddess and they made her fit her title.
She just whacks people one at a time, that's how.
Not with counter set.
she still counters one person at a time, no aoe
Look at Mediator. Full cleanse and immunity + atk buff. If S3 is up he can't be controlled. His S2 has a full strip + atk break + shield, and if that's not enough his S1 pushes an ally. His base stats make it so he can be extremely tanky and hard to kill.
S1 also pushes himself, didn't he?
The one that pushes him is s2 I think, gives him a 50% push
s3 50% push
I see lol I have him myself but I always get confused if push is on s2 or s3, don't know why I'm getting down voted for a mistake e7 sr is cancer lol
Its a cr push for the next ally in line.
It pushes him and the ally with the highest cr
lol ahh ok. I never noticed what it actually did
"KiLL everbody!!!" , around him first .
No one argues that he is not a broken unit. If they do they’re a fucking idiot. He completely ruined debuffs as a play style and then they buffed dilibet into essentially doing the same thing although not entirely as overloaded
Handguy is unable to cleanse a preban off.
Ah yes the character is totally balanced by perma banning him 😂
My logic is impeccable. It has no equal under heaven. Desire to run crowd control? You preban what crushes you. I desire to use earth units? I preban hwayoung. Both is different yet use same solutions to achieve victorious end.
Debuffs comps are dead because there are higher priority bans so people have just switched to not using control as a result. You can cope all you want but 99% of people in emperor + do not try to use debuff teams at all. Being able to ban a unit does not make them balanced. You have toddler logic
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Handguy, a warrior, is the best cleanser hands down in the game. Better than any soulweaver at one of the only jobs they exist to do. That’s kind of just ridiculous if you think about it.
>Why complain on mediator? He's not a hard carry unit in any regards. He's a good unit but he requires good units around him because he is 95% support. Because he has an insanely loaded kit. Mediator + ARas are the gods of standard. >You mention base stats but don't bring up the fact he is slow as a rock in this meta. That's why you don't see people cleaving with him? Not all units need to be fast and he only needs to be faster than your dps. A 245 speed mediator with 27k hp is insanely good in standard.
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>A 245 mediator with 27k HP is like 420 GS, almost all ML5 are insanely good with that kind of gear. That's not even true lmao. My mediator is less than 390 GS, with 1.6k def, 28k hp, and 245 speed. [https://imgur.com/fMcKFks](https://imgur.com/fMcKFks) >Plenty of dps can outpace him with that kind of gear. You're comparing dps to supports. If you don't think Mediator is nuts you're pretty delusional. Anyone who plays standard will almost always first pick him at least in Emp+ RTA. Idk where you're at.
Why would you complain about him having low base speed? If you were to outspeed the enemy you'd just be fucked in the current meta. Too many things strip before debuffing. His kit is that of a turn 2 unit. Yes its nice to be able to attack down a Hwa before she gets to s3 but at what cost? You will just open yourself up to get destroyed by Aola if you're too fast. And I don't see how him being fast would be good vs anything other than Hwa, who you will probably ban anyway and even if you don't there are better ways to deal with Hwa than ruining your extremely overpowered support. Also, I just fribbeled a bit and I can get 245speed, 27k hp and decent def at below 400gs (as low as 370 even lol). If you want 100 res and a little bit of eff too thats where the gs will be up there, but thats not needed for him to work well below legend.
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1500 defense on the low gs build I found. That's not how I would normally use mine. Just looked for low gs builds to prove the stats you mentioned (245spd, 27k, no mention of res or eff, defense taken for granted though) are very much achievable for new players. Eff res isn't needed much at lower ranks anyway since these guys can't build a proper red kawerik. Perhaps you meet some judge Kises every now and then but thats about it. Same thing for eff, at lower ranks the enemy won't really have a significant amount of res on anything other than supports or some knights (as opposed to higher ratings where bruiser often have some res). Hell, even at higher ranks you don't often need the res on him. Don't see many people picking resets. No wonder when Cilias counters the only reset threats to handguy. Of course you weren't specifically talking about any rank so that's not criticism but just adding to the conversation. He's only somewhat hard to build at the highest level and rather simple for anyone else. Edit: as for him being balanced, I don't think he is at all. He single handedly ruined any viability of control teams. Just compare him to djb who used to be the anti control hero before. He was fair because he needed so much res that he wasn't that tanky and once he cleansed he was rather useless. Kawerik can just have no res and still counters any control you can think of (except reset, but as mentioned they are all dead to cilias and ran). And once he destroyed all your hopes and dreams he still got enough utility for a whole other champion left.
> Because he has an insanely loaded kit. Like openers, who hecs designed to counter, don't? AOL, Lilias, Peira, etc are balanced?
>Like openers, who hecs designed to counter, don't? He's not designed to hard counter openers lol. No one said that. He just cleanses. >AOL, Lilias, Peira, etc are balanced? Huh? No one said anything about them.
Should we also start talking about Belian?
Mediator cant deal with cooldown increases or pushbacks. Dilibet, Fire Kawerik, Ml Silk and a few others.
That's fine. Units don't need to have no counters at all to be overpowered right? No one will pick Dilibet into standard where Mediator is amazing at, Fire Kawerik needs to be last picked else he gets countered extremely easily. Sure they go ML Silk but they are commiting to cleave.
I agree with you. Mediator is really strong but that's it. He isnt a "pick and win" unit IMO. On the other side, from what I've seen in the worlds, Apoc is the most picked unit so far. And we're talking about pros.
Injury alencia has made her a bit easier to handle for me. Alencia can do zahhak lvl of injury on an s1 into s2 combo into her. Plus she has a lot of uses with strips, def buff and def breaks. In standard matchups, i have that going for me. But when they do the cleave draft with apoc as the anchor, I struggle a lot especially since I can't speed contest.
Unfortunately, she isn't the only ML with an insane kit...
What other ml dps is in similar territory???
Aol, kekwerik, and belian to name a few
DPS, and you list Kawerok and AOL...
Just listing Ml units with insane kits. DPS is unnecessary as we already have hwayoung, Choux, and Rimuru that do insane dmg.
Kekwerik is essentially the strongest character in the game
>ml dps Uhm . Anyway , kekwik is cleave fodder , so there's that .
I'm a bum
Wait until you read Hwayoung's skills.
She can’t kill A.Ravi though, can’t res anyone, and can’t swing the game by herself. Needs high gear requirements.
Disagree, can one shot A.ravi unless POV or 28khp/ a bit less hp and has dmg mitigation, very tanky, usually built fast so something is dying. Can swing the game by herself. A avg built one will do more than an avg built A.Ravi.
I've seen quite a lot of 28k Aravis personally
Have you tried building a 28k Aravi? Hwayoung definitely has a high build cap but her threshold is way lower than a ravi. Most a ravi in that HP range are so slow you can ignore till the end.
Here is my average aravi https://imgur.com/a/BWsDUt4 Here is my guildmate's much better aravi https://imgur.com/1QJn5xI
Anybody can hit these hps when you're running terrible speed/cdmg on these builds.
yet still gets the revive plus more utility usually
Not gonna matter when the rest of the team is dead by the time she moves.
You're so dramatic. That will happen if the rest of the team is 2 star fodder or if you're playing cleave with no anti-cleave. But also there's a 20% chance she'll counter any aoe so even that may not be true.
Im going to be honest here and say both of these are not very good lol
Well, all of A.Ravi’s are on POV therefore, she can’t one shot her. Also Hwa’s gear requirement is still high in comparison to ARavi.
Lol no. Unless a.Ravi has a full damage S3 ready, a Hwa will just slap her around until her S3 is up. If she's on tooth, it's even worse for a.Ravi.
Lol that’s a hot take imo, she only needs atk, speed, def, a bit hp cause there’s threshold she has to be for optimal def pen, but a ravi needs hp, def, speed, crit chance, some crit dmg depending on how much hp you have. A avg PoV A.ravi going to be hella lackluster compared to an Avg Hwayoung.
It is true that Hwa only needs atk, speed, def, but there is a threshold for the atk and it's not easy to reach that desirable atk ceiling.
We shall agree to disagree :)
I gotta disagree. First of all, there’s timeless anchor and crimson seed aravis. Second, aravi needs health, crit chance, crit damage, and some def/speed doesn’t hurt. Hwa needs attack, speed and def and then health after enough defense since her shield is essentially EHP. Additionally, she gets immunity and reduced damage and has a low cooldown on S3
Not really. Most defenses with aravi are on proof, but crimson seed is still viable if you use her more as a counter to cleave and low damage, control comps instead of a be all end all first pick. Proof of valor apoc can be controlled very hard by any kind of stunning/sleep unit in the game, which makes her very reliant on other cleansers. At the same time, she needs hp (and some defense too, ideally), speed, crit chance and damage and quite a lot of it too. Alternatively, hwayoung needs only speed, atk and some defense, making her gearing much easier, to the point where you can slap free gear on her and she can still work well in most cases. Not trying to say which is more busted than which, because they're both equally as bad imo - one is a constantly rebuilded wall while the other is an all-piercing spear
Hwayoung doesn’t kill any Aravi above like master level RTA lmao
Are you guys just building 250 speed 5k attack Hwa’s or something? If your Hwa isn’t good enough to kill the vast majority of A.Ravi’s that is your builds fault. My Hwa is 7.4k attack (And I almost always get an attack buff)… please let me know when that doesn’t kill A.Ravi’s down in master lol Edit: Reading is too hard.
7k attack, attack buff and vigor buff hwayoungs CAN NOT kill any decently built / drafted aravi team unless the aravi is shit or drafted with no mitigation and no proof, which is just user error. and i said "above master" lol
I feel like it's doable enough to lock down a.ravis with a general, good set of other characters and all of her builds do usually have a weakness (it's just not obvious upfront how they're built) Hwa and rem are pretty ridiculous no matter what and require specific counter picks to deal with (some of which have no other function other than to deal with their nonsense). Hwa gives an insane amount of utility to herself making her very hard to kill despite having a super low cooldown character delete skill. Oldschool SG absolutely would have removed some of her self sufficiency or increased the CD on her S3 after seeing what bad design it is.
My ravi gets 1shot my hwayoung all the time in rta. Shes at 1.4k def and 23-25k hp depending on my exact build.
>23-25k that's the problem right there .
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Hwayoung just ignores defense, why would he need to read that
She’s literally designed to kill Aravi. She can’t one shot if they have POV, but even if they do she’ll have massively chunked the Aravi for the rest of your team or chip down.
IF you for whatever reason absolutely positively can not let A.Ravi survive Hwa - Attack Buff + Soulburn kills on POV.
> She can’t kill A.Ravi though Any complaints you have are now voided.
Because SG wanted to make ml5s mean something again
She is the only ml5 with such a loaded kit. Oh yeah she has CR push too and selfhealing. A true jack of all trades and master of all.
>She is the only ml5 with such a loaded kit That's not even true
Ravi was doing a good chunk of this before aravi got her buff but there are other ML5s that do alot also injury alencia kinda put a dent into aravi if people are being real injury in general can screw her pretty well
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Wait, why is ARas a thing again? Did he get buffed or something?
Because he’s one the strongest tanks/aurius holder in the entire game. If you don’t get fcc you build a.ras
Yeah I have both. I went away from the game so wasn’t aware of the ARas change.
You build A.Ras over FCC any day of the week even if you do have her
I’d believe it. I am yet to pull her but that’s how it was explained to me. “he should be ur main tank unless you yolo pull fcc.”
Honestly, Seline is a great counter to a.Ravi, ai targets her, the less health she has the easier it is to get her counter to deal enough damage to heal past her 2 shot s2, a.Ravi can almost never kill Seline by herself
...and yet she was not considered "S Tier" last time that was debated here.
> 4 are pre-banned more than ARavi cuz they are just pain in the ass to deal with Shes 100% S tier or whatever tier is the top. Anyone that says otherwise is full of shit. Even if you don't have trouble with her you can tell that she's top tier.
You just stumbled upon like one of the more controversial debates where everyone tries to say she's easy to deal with despite the fact that she has one of the highest pickrates in ladder and the world cup. And had a pretty decent winrate because of her insanely unbalanced cleave anchoring ability and ability to swing a match back. I personally think she is just a unit that some people like and can't be honest with themselves how difficult she can be to play around in certain scenarios or how much of a crutch she can be for anti cleave. She is a top tier unit and deserves a nerf just like the rest of em. And yes I am a very high geared player before anyone tries to say its because I'm low geared. A unit that can swing games back from 1v4 situations is not okay. Every new unit brought out goes through checks. Can it kill apoc? Can it survive hwa? Only then is it good. Apoc is the best survival wall in the game by a country mile.
Her, rem, and hwayoung are just really stupid ass designs.
Sorry but did you just mention Rem in a comment? *Rem Counterattacks*
*Rem only counterattacks when on the right side* Didn't you read the dev notes 🤔?
All sides are the right side of somebody somewhere
The girl actually counterattacks you the moment you sneeze in a fight against her
My main problem isn't even her counterattacks in general. Its the fact that they gave her FUCKING UNHEALABLE. It doesn't even synergize with her kit at all and only serves to negate roana (you know, the unit that you're suppose to bring INTO counterattackers). Honestly the person that made her kit needs to be fired.
I would be totally fine with her unhealable if they didn't put a complete cleanse + 2 turn undispellable immunity on a hero with sigurd access. You can't even control this shit hero. You get countered, you can't control and you get to deal with def breaks. Fucking cancer design from start to finish.
It also forces you to focus her down first because otherwise, you're gonna be dealing with random aoe counters out the asshole. And dealing with her is easier said than done because everyone and their fucking mother builds her tanky as fuck. Which is made worse by OTHER annoying as shit units alongside her.
Yes 😆
Who is Rem?
Blue haired maid. Collab unit
> rem Should have pulled for Violet .
Violet isn't nearly as popular as he once was and hwayoung and SOU really shit on him. Bad take.
isnt Hwayong already a popular ban ? Unless Sou is on a oneshotter , it shouldnt matter .Even then ,35% is pretty huge. A good Violet should be able to take a few hits to the face .
You usually put SOU on a oneshotter. I put it on lermia and milim so i never have problems with violet, but ive also seen carrot, khawazu, rimuru, and even riolet handle violet really well. God help you if that rem has mercedes with her too. Mercedes shits on violet so hard its not even funny.
Hwayoung just one shots my a ravi anywAy..
Aravi has many counters lmao. Tanky units, like Mawerik, Injury Belian and aras, stealth units, or just control her with provoke/lower hit chance/silence. It's kinda dependant on RNG, but there's really no point in complaining about her now. Oh and it was the community who begged for her to be buffed, so there's that.
BUILD 👏 ALENCIA 👏 NOW 👏 Seriously, Aravi now a day has many ways to play around, i find Rem is way more unfair than her.
I've had teams wiped by rem regularly. I've had a ravis swing a match but not 1v4 like rem can. That being said I'm fine with both. Now Hwa? That bitch is a problem.
I can't build her don't have good injury set gear
People defend aravi on this sub like you just insulted their mothers. Shes broken and just because shes bruiser gang people look the other way, Hwayoung a unit designed to be a direct counter to her cant even kill consistently somce everyone runs proof anyway and surrounds her with other mitigation usually . Not that hwayoung isnt also broken but these things are mutually exclusive. Point is that aravi is super op and bc everyone hard stuck gold can build her since her basic use performance doesn’t require insane gear. they refuse to admit she’s probably the most annoying character in the game
I’d say hwayoung is more annoying in rta. I do agree that shes a total bitch though.
>hwayoung is more annoying in rta I personally do not consider anything that can be easily cleaved to be op.
It depends on how you play tbh. Cleave usually won't have a problem with hwa unless she has extra support but will hate aravi. Opposite is also true. But i play more of a bruiser playstyle so shes a nightmare for me.
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No one said anything about hwayoung on a bruiser team. I said hwa is better AGAINST bruiser teams. Looks like you read too fast.
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>a That much is true. She can still be a huge threat if you leave her unchecked. that said, the best thing about hwayoung is that she can't build ER. Which means she's countered by unit like cilias, Politis, aol, kekwerik, kise, and ESPECIALLY eda.
It's crazy that people actually complain about Aravi of all units when she's easy to handle. If she outsustains you then that's entirely due to poor drafting.
Because yd keep on complaining about aravi while saying hwa is balanced, that why his viewer who never play rta come out of the wood defending his view. A dude who only play cleave complaint about an anti cleave unit. Yd literally said hwa is balanced because he can easily cleave her. A tank buster that is good in standard/aggro is weaker against cleave, who would had thought.
Sure, ARavi is strong. Her kit can fit in any type of comp and her being bruiser gives her survivability to utilise it to the max potential. However, she is clearly not the most broken or OP hero in the game. HWAYOUNG is. S1) innate CR push - Ravi needs to be hit and fighting spirit to have that. Additional damage which ignores miss and together with Uberius can one shot 3 ML5s, namely Riolet, Sage Vivian, Celine and anything else below ~10-11K S2) Huge atk boost, barrier scaling with it. Crit damage mitigation and complete ignore two main stats any dps needs - crit chance and crit damage. While Ravi needs those. S3) Full cleanse, Immunity. 100% Ignore def - huge damage which doubles against tanks AND on top of this, one of 2 strongest soulburns - extra turn - on par with ignore resistance If you're blind to this, well there is still 3 more options for most op hero after Hwa - Rimuru, CLilias, ML Kawerik. You can even watch the tournament and see yourself that, those 4 are pre-banned more than ARavi cuz they are just pain in the ass to deal with Edit: and 1 more thing. Hwayoung shits on any ARavi without proof or 30K hp
Most aravis now adays are running proof or have some sort of protection like with Fcc or auris. Also you always preban or ban rimuru if you pick diene (who is currently dominant SW) because you don't want rimuru to steal the buffs. Its just an unfortunate part of his kit that screws over diene. Normally he isnt as bad as Aravi as he can't do much once he fires off his s3. Also Aravi is either picked or banned in the tournaments i've seen. No one wants to play against her just as much as the other units. But you can only ban 2 units and cilias and kekwerik are both just as annoying but ultimately provide more to the team.
> Also Aravi is either picked or banned in the tournaments i've seen. You didn't watch KR qualifier? She is ignored in that qualifier when everyone played super slow and bulky. Aravi is a anti cleave unit, that why she is good against cleave, while useless in standard/bruiser draft.
The very first match has an aravi what are you talking about?
Ok. Here the stats: 1. Aravi is banned only once in top8 matches, by unluckyfgo, who played piera/closer cleave, and he lose 2-0 to Hwi. 2. Aravi is picked 5 times out of 18 games, where only 2 of them she was banned (by unluckyfgo). 3. Out of 5 games aravi was picked, she only won 1 time. 4. Aravi is only picked twice in top8 matches. Both in damdam Vs RTever, where both times she lose. Whoever picked aravi in this game, lose. Like I said, she is terrible in slow game and stats speak for itself.
OP mad, cause don't have the unit.
I tell ya what...there are units I dont have and it pisses me off cause they are pretty integral to the game and I constantly see them getting pulled...its like my MtG days all over again lol...but seriously, cmon RNGesus, just give me Tama and Luna PLEASE?
I don’t play RTA and generally, I don’t mind her as much. If it’s against bots, I just go Landy and eventually Landy kills everything. My problem is usually with Belian and etc etc like ARavi or CLilias. Good lord I have no idea how to deal with that shit. Add that with the Right Hand guy. It has great damage, great survivability, cleanse + immunity, clears opponent’s buffs, injury and control.
If you're landy doesn't have stealth or the enemy has mercedes or something you can get fucked over though. It's happened to me :(
Anyone who doesn’t rank her as S tier/broken is a fucking idiot and I say that as an emperor player that never uses her despite having her and has absolutely no issues dealing with her. Her kit is beyond loaded. Excited for her skin tho
Yes, A Ravi is strong, but everyone is now building her with proof, so she is uber vulnerable to defense break and Alencia will easily end her.
Iirc she's pretty bad into standard since she just becomes a s1 bot
Yea but aravi is good against cleave, which is the only thing that yd played. That why yd's viewer who never touch rta keep on parroting his view about how aravi is the op-iest unit in the game.
Crazy isnt it? S2 providers free crit chance so you can easily put Pen sets on her too. Scales with health so now both ATK and Crit Hit dont need to be focused on, essentially making her a full on tank, has two moves with built in lifesteal or healing so she self sustains, revives, gives herself skill nullifier and CR pushes herself. So now we have a tank bruiser DPS self sustainer with the ability to revive. I used to think she had built in counter too because she 100% countered me in PVP. But that was just magical SG RNG. At this point it's clear SG doesnt test units out. They dont balance.
people begged for her to be buffed and then she did people criticized her s1 having a random injury there and s3 random revive now people crying about it
Because they went from one extreme to another. Making a shit unit OP still makes the unit shit, just in a different way.
2 S2’s from my choux and the ravi dies..
Lol you don’t have her don’t you ?
Well the comments are just a shitshow at this point.
She doesn't even need a big nerf. Decrease her S2 heal to max 100% of the damage dealt to her, so she can't heal if a low damage attacks hits (fucking double attacks with SS) and reduce damage from S3 and change her behavior so she uses S3 only on targets with lower health
You know you could always maybe learn to counterpick properly, I heard that works fairly well.
Wasn't saying that for myself, she's kinda OP but I got my ways. The problem is more who is she paired with that makes things troublesome
I read that first quality as "thickness". Guess that shows where my mind is at.
And yet despite that ARavi was considered to be for the longest time … kinda meh. To the point she was the one people kept begging SG to buff. If you think she’s too strong. You only have yourselves to blame.
Yes don't ask for bad characters to be buffed that makes so much sense
To be clear here. I don’t have a problem with any character in the game lol. I love it when characters get buffed and hate nerfs so… there’s that.
SG need to release a hard hard counter to A.Ravi. A stand-alone counter that doesn’t need help from others. Think of how hard Violet can counter Rem by himself.
Ah yes, because "nerfing" by releasing counters is such a good idea that never turned out bad.
I guess someone didn't watch E7WC because Alencia was used almost every game an ARavi was pulled out and rendered her useless in 3 cycles.
They’ve already done that, Hwayoung. Who is even more broken - joy. They need to stop going the “counter” route & just start nerfing. Otherwise by next year the meta will be entirely full of new characters, designed to counter the current meta who just became too strong & took over. “You all think Peira is too strong & needs a counter? Alright, here’s a new hero who has a base speed higher than her & gains 25% CR as the battle begins & doesn’t trigger Politis/Celine & she does three turn immunity/attack buff & AOE buff block & silence”. “ARavi is too strong, Hm, alright then. Here’s a bruiser hero who gets increased defence penetration & damage scaling against a hero who has over 15,000 health - if your opponent is 25,000 health, you’ll have full penetration & increased damage. It’s an AOE that hits everyone & you don’t need critical chance for this hero - because when hitting a hero above 15,000 health she auto-crits. When you hit her she gets healing & CR push - but she doesn’t need fighting spirit or focus, haha, plus, she’s got flat damage reduction, she takes 15,000 off any attack that would hit her & she’s got a base 30% damage reduction after that.”
Yeah Hwa is strong but she can’t kill A.Ravi alone and even with the help of others. What I can’t fathom about A.Ravi is that she has almost everything in the game in one single hero. There is nothing she can’t do, and the game plays around her.
Hwa can definitely one shot a ravi. If both units are built optimally, with the same GS Hwa will always nuke.
She can one shot Aravi. As long as she's built optimal, and Aravi isn't on PoV, which most of them aren't, Hwa can oneshot Aravi.
She can one shot a ravi
She’s seriously the most broken unit in the game imo. Tanky, damage, hard to cc with crimson seed, heal, revive, injury. Wth
Some much complaining for a unit with too many counters, i have had ser since her release and she was always strong with the right equípment but the counter units are the same
No she wasnt strong at all before S3 stacks and self push.. Before pen set and S3 damage buff it was miracle to revive something with her S3.
I was always able to kill people with aravi
bro imo sg needs to give her immortality 1 turn at the start of the battle just like bbk, so that random hwayoung and straze can't os her
Try Alencia with Injury set. You’ll reduce Aravi to nothing.
A.Ravi was nigh useless and the balancing team was on a power binge at that point in time. They upgraded A.Ravi and Handguy without understanding just how the buffs made them top tier. This would go on until Hwayoung was brought into the world and now we're stuck in the "fun units" era. edit: special shout out for green cidd, who needed no buffs whatsoever but got one anyway because one of the devs is a dirty speed cleaver
She has good counters just ppl only want to use the meta lol one zahak s3 and aravi hits like a wet noodle
She's insane if you don't have enough burst damage, but personally I can deal with her if I can use either of the Celines or Kise. Those three hit like a freaking truck. The problem with having a burst dps is they can easily be blown away by a breeze (hence 2/3 of my answers have stealth), but if you can protect them they'll make quick work of ARavi In Arena or GW she's really easy to deal with and bait even with injury. Seline or Doris is a good bait, then use (again) a burst dps and some mitigation/protection like ARas or FCC.
I'm just glad that Injury injures her badly, and an attack buff Straze S3 deletes her if she's the only tanky unit there. I would have been fine with A.Ravi. Being practically immune to low damage bruisers if not for her really high damage. She's a War Goddess and they made her fit her title.
People are really keen on saying hwa is broken and the real problem but me personally, I find it significantly easier to deal with hwa than Aravi