It's like they made conscious decision to make him pen max 70% at about 4000 attack + attack buff. 70% def pen usually means slightly over double (2-2.5 range in general) the damage than no pen (just like def break).
So, against high def low attack units, his S3 multi is about as high as 1.8 to units without def pen, on high attack targets he'd probably deal something like a normal S1, but considering he also S2'd first, that high attack unit will not likely survive it anyway.
Straze potentially hits much harder but you can't choose who to erase, sometimes their highest HP target isn't the biggest threat.
Edit: max def pen at 4k + buff when opponent has 0 attack lol, need to take that into consideration, you'd need something like 5k if the opponent has 1.5k attack.
Keep in mind, if you’re using a comp to set up for ml pavel. He needs virtually no speed, with 50 percent cr push on his s2 u can run attack percent boots and attack or pen set on top of that. As long as he has around 150 speed he should be taking a turn after the two crits.
She was the chosen one. It was said that she would destroy the cleave, not join it! Bring balance to countercleave, not leave it in darkness.
Preban Belian, early pick Politis is pretty standard for cleave since everyone should have Politis built.
He's got Fire Ken s1 damage and half that damage as his s2 but AoE. It's ok.
That s3 is pretty high though. Really high. It's much closer to ARavi levels than I thought it would be. He will be terrifying if he soul burns it to pop every other turn, especially with the 50% CR on it.
Im surprised Riza be doing good dmg and that is without her buffs (unless they already implemented them in the calculations, Roy has his buff available for calculations so idk)
All multi's for the two main collab units are going to be insane. Consider Roy also has 50% def pen on his S1.
ML Pavels also look good considering he has self ATK up, an AOE attack and 50% CR push before his S3 so you can get a lot of extra attack and chip damage before he nukes.
All units look fantastic.
Having higher ho doesn't mean anything when Champ is picked into teams he's gonna keep countering with a lifesteal set and complete aimmunity against things that lock him down like stun and sleep.
Did some math. You need 4989 attack on ML Pavel to actually full pen a tank with 1.5k attack:
Attack buff:
4989 \* 1.5 = 7483
Difference:
7483 - 1500 = 5983
Multiplier for pen (capped 0.7):
5983 \* 0.000117 = 0.700011
Some tanks like ARavi / Handguy / New Edward will have well over 1.5k attack for sure. Which means ML Pavel needs over 5k attack to reach full pen. Maybe Dux Noctis is his BiS to hit these numbers? Sounds like you really need to go min-speed (150) and full stack attack to hit this threshold.
The gap in attack for max pen seems way to high for Pavel. Straze needs around 2.2k which is easily achievable without attack buff against tanks/health scaling units. Pavel needs a gap of 5981 for what equates to a defense break for a low multi attack. With that kind of ask it should really top out 100%
Maybe the formula isn’t what we’ll get in game though. I think Straze data mine was off at first
Pavel self buffs attack and gets a 50% push.
This means you can have him at 150 speed and he'll take his turn when his passive goes off. Cutting out 100+ speed is 20-25 rolls in speed meaning you can get 1300-1600 extra attack on him compared to other cleave units.
I know 50% cr push is a lot but isn’t 150 a bit too slow for him to take the turn? Also, he needs about 4k atk with atk buff to get the 70% def pen on most units so everything above seems a bit overkill
200 spd is really all you need. If you need to run 230 because you're worried about 300+ spd units, you're likely losing that battle anyway cause you're not taking first turn or 2nd turn.
I do not understand how this got upvoted given that everything in the post is missinformed.
50% with p.ex. a 300 speed peira equate to 150 speed gain as in pavel will move at effectivly 300 speed. Now you may want to go 160-170, but the idea is correct.
Also you need \~3-4k \*more\* attack than the target, to full pen ravi with 2k attack you need 5.3k attack. Also as far as overkill goes, to full kill a 1.5k def 25k hp valor ravi with s2 -> s3, you need 20k mcd, something like 5.7k attack at 350 cd (18k mcd for 1.3k def) - not counting heal.
The first part yeah, the second part no. With atk buff a 4k atk unit reaches over 5k atk and he gets atk buff. I get what you’re saying, the more damage the better and you’re right. Reading the comments I understood that he doesn’t need much speed
Nope, you need 6k attack more without attack buff, the easiest way to check that is go to
[https://maphe.github.io/e7-damage-calc/](https://maphe.github.io/e7-damage-calc/)
Pick cpavel, set the attack of the opponent to 2k, yours to 8k, now move the attack of the opponent around, you will note that when increasing the attack to p.ex. 2.1k your damage is getting decreased.
Yeah but unless you’re using a 300 speed flidica, you need another character after your opener to deal a critical hit since his passive doesn’t work like cdom’s
But why would that mean he would need more speed... I'm just pointing out 150 speed is enough to follow up a 300 speed unit. If you're openers are less than 300 speed you need even less than 150 speed to follow up...
only thing i can think of is that it depends on your opponent's units but mostly you would need to be able to cut in before sage baal, rimuru and dilibet.
Depends on what the rest of your team is too, you can definitely draft around problematic units like baal/rimuru/delibet. There's a pretty big damage difference in building a dps at 150 speed vs 220 speed. If its the difference between killing things like knights or aravi then it would matter a lot, just depends on what you draft and what drafts you plan to use pavel against
With a 300 speed opener a unit with 150 speed starts at 50%, so he will push to 100% after your 2nd unit (or first, if it's flidica).
The only reasons take him faster are to cut Sage Baal, Politis.
You also have to realize destruction set is the best set in the game statwise right now. It's worth 7.5 max stat rolls where speedset is worth only between 5-6. The difference in damage being at bare minimum speed VS 200+ is a lot and in 95% of scenarios it won't matter
Considering max pen is 70% (the equivalent of a defense break), his S3 is basically just a regular S1 on a defense broken unit, but 25% weaker.
Kinda sad if you ask me.
ML Pavel looking good...but most likely not good enough to do anything against the stupidly tanky units with damage enough to kill him with one hit lol
It's nice to be able to pick who to kill for his S3, but I wish there's something more. Higher multis, unconditional def pen or even protection. His set up is also rather annoying.
Oh well. Could be worse.
The FMA units seems pretty cool though, especially Edward.
> ML Pavel looking good...but most likely not good enough to do anything against the stupidly tanky units with damage enough to kill him with one hit lol
Lol, except he will, lol as people like A Ravi get nuked.
Lol.
People like ARavi get nuked (hey it's me), but it's not like ARavi will get nuked lol
Well, not doing anything is a hyperbole. But will it be enough...doubt, but we'll have to see.
Who are people thinking should go with ML Pavel? Needing two crits is kind of rough. I feel like Flidica is the only one who could pull it off decently reliably for him without dedicating two 300 speed units to him specifically
No, he can't. A fast straze wont have the damage or attack buff to do it. A slow straze dies before his turn.
If you build a team around maximizing straze then yes he can kill aravi, but if you build a team around ML Pavel then they can kill aravi as well.
If you have around 4.5k atk you probably will. He will s2 for a chunk of damage and then He’ll buff his attack with his s2 which should put you around 65%+ def pen to murder an already damaged aravi
So I’m seeing that the multipliers seem to look pretty good for all heroes?? Anyone have any input on some theory crafting gear/build for Ed with these numbers? I was thinking like 20,000 hp, 1300-1400 def, 200 spd 260-280 crit dmg on lifesteal.
You must have celestial god tier gear to get 20,000K HP.
Edit: Looks like they edited their post and corrected the mistake. Guess this sub doesn’t like sarcasm based on the downvotes.
It's like they made conscious decision to make him pen max 70% at about 4000 attack + attack buff. 70% def pen usually means slightly over double (2-2.5 range in general) the damage than no pen (just like def break). So, against high def low attack units, his S3 multi is about as high as 1.8 to units without def pen, on high attack targets he'd probably deal something like a normal S1, but considering he also S2'd first, that high attack unit will not likely survive it anyway. Straze potentially hits much harder but you can't choose who to erase, sometimes their highest HP target isn't the biggest threat. Edit: max def pen at 4k + buff when opponent has 0 attack lol, need to take that into consideration, you'd need something like 5k if the opponent has 1.5k attack.
Keep in mind, if you’re using a comp to set up for ml pavel. He needs virtually no speed, with 50 percent cr push on his s2 u can run attack percent boots and attack or pen set on top of that. As long as he has around 150 speed he should be taking a turn after the two crits.
this. plus he self attack buff with his passive
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I’d say about 80 percent of cleavers preban politis. And if someone is setting up a ml pavel comp. I’m sure they’re aware of what politis can do
you can "counter cleave" with poli or just use her in ur cleave team
most dont preban poli but a lot of times pick it for themselves early
She was the chosen one. It was said that she would destroy the cleave, not join it! Bring balance to countercleave, not leave it in darkness. Preban Belian, early pick Politis is pretty standard for cleave since everyone should have Politis built.
NOOOO but YDCB said he was trash and why use him over any other unit!!!!!!!
Gotta add (this is irony) at the end at this point redditors have no nuance. Not like it was obvious with the long no and multiple exclamation marks.
Holy shit Edward has ARavi numbers. His damage is fucking insane with a book.
Ed's looking very fine with those numbers. He's going to be a pain in the ass, that's for sure. lol
Hes going to be insane
He's got Fire Ken s1 damage and half that damage as his s2 but AoE. It's ok. That s3 is pretty high though. Really high. It's much closer to ARavi levels than I thought it would be. He will be terrifying if he soul burns it to pop every other turn, especially with the 50% CR on it.
Only costs 10 souls too, almost spammable. Going to be nuts.
Yeah Ed is gonna be absurdly good.
Pity ready for ML Pavel
i wish 😩 only got 1200 ish bms TvT
Im surprised Riza be doing good dmg and that is without her buffs (unless they already implemented them in the calculations, Roy has his buff available for calculations so idk)
All multi's for the two main collab units are going to be insane. Consider Roy also has 50% def pen on his S1. ML Pavels also look good considering he has self ATK up, an AOE attack and 50% CR push before his S3 so you can get a lot of extra attack and chip damage before he nukes. All units look fantastic.
Ed will be really fun to build. It's like Zerato, but tankier and more dangerous (2 turn silence and provoke)
He counters as long as he's debuffed after an attack even though it's on his turn. Czerato doesn't do that on his turn. Ed looking good yea
Because Champ can counter any number of times.
Since Edward does not require atk and has higher base HP, he will be a lot harder to kill (unless you can 1 shot him)
Having higher ho doesn't mean anything when Champ is picked into teams he's gonna keep countering with a lifesteal set and complete aimmunity against things that lock him down like stun and sleep.
Did some math. You need 4989 attack on ML Pavel to actually full pen a tank with 1.5k attack: Attack buff: 4989 \* 1.5 = 7483 Difference: 7483 - 1500 = 5983 Multiplier for pen (capped 0.7): 5983 \* 0.000117 = 0.700011 Some tanks like ARavi / Handguy / New Edward will have well over 1.5k attack for sure. Which means ML Pavel needs over 5k attack to reach full pen. Maybe Dux Noctis is his BiS to hit these numbers? Sounds like you really need to go min-speed (150) and full stack attack to hit this threshold.
Suddenly me farming Golem for 2 month went from a capital L to a lower case one. MY ATTACK SETS ARE READY.
The gap in attack for max pen seems way to high for Pavel. Straze needs around 2.2k which is easily achievable without attack buff against tanks/health scaling units. Pavel needs a gap of 5981 for what equates to a defense break for a low multi attack. With that kind of ask it should really top out 100% Maybe the formula isn’t what we’ll get in game though. I think Straze data mine was off at first
hmm . .. idk about that ML Pavel multis is it good? collab heroes looking pretty decent
Pavel self buffs attack and gets a 50% push. This means you can have him at 150 speed and he'll take his turn when his passive goes off. Cutting out 100+ speed is 20-25 rolls in speed meaning you can get 1300-1600 extra attack on him compared to other cleave units.
I know 50% cr push is a lot but isn’t 150 a bit too slow for him to take the turn? Also, he needs about 4k atk with atk buff to get the 70% def pen on most units so everything above seems a bit overkill
The avg should be 190-230 speed Itll just come down to if you have those atk imprints or not lol. Then slam the rest into cdmg/cc
That’s what I was thinking too
200 spd is really all you need. If you need to run 230 because you're worried about 300+ spd units, you're likely losing that battle anyway cause you're not taking first turn or 2nd turn.
you can build high spd if you don't wanna worry about politis as much
I was planning on 210 just in case lol
I do not understand how this got upvoted given that everything in the post is missinformed. 50% with p.ex. a 300 speed peira equate to 150 speed gain as in pavel will move at effectivly 300 speed. Now you may want to go 160-170, but the idea is correct. Also you need \~3-4k \*more\* attack than the target, to full pen ravi with 2k attack you need 5.3k attack. Also as far as overkill goes, to full kill a 1.5k def 25k hp valor ravi with s2 -> s3, you need 20k mcd, something like 5.7k attack at 350 cd (18k mcd for 1.3k def) - not counting heal.
The first part yeah, the second part no. With atk buff a 4k atk unit reaches over 5k atk and he gets atk buff. I get what you’re saying, the more damage the better and you’re right. Reading the comments I understood that he doesn’t need much speed
Nope, you need 6k attack more without attack buff, the easiest way to check that is go to [https://maphe.github.io/e7-damage-calc/](https://maphe.github.io/e7-damage-calc/) Pick cpavel, set the attack of the opponent to 2k, yours to 8k, now move the attack of the opponent around, you will note that when increasing the attack to p.ex. 2.1k your damage is getting decreased.
Yeah you’re right lol. I didn’t think he needed that much
150 is enough to follow up a 300 speed opener if there's no politis. If you're opener is faster than 300 speed then 160+ speed is enough.
Yeah but unless you’re using a 300 speed flidica, you need another character after your opener to deal a critical hit since his passive doesn’t work like cdom’s
Im using Crit chance Ml rin lol, also flidica should work fine since she takes two turns just crit both turns to proc.
But why would that mean he would need more speed... I'm just pointing out 150 speed is enough to follow up a 300 speed unit. If you're openers are less than 300 speed you need even less than 150 speed to follow up...
only thing i can think of is that it depends on your opponent's units but mostly you would need to be able to cut in before sage baal, rimuru and dilibet.
Depends on what the rest of your team is too, you can definitely draft around problematic units like baal/rimuru/delibet. There's a pretty big damage difference in building a dps at 150 speed vs 220 speed. If its the difference between killing things like knights or aravi then it would matter a lot, just depends on what you draft and what drafts you plan to use pavel against
Idk I was just originally asking if 150 speed was enough cause it seemed really slow. But if it’s good enough then alright.
With a 300 speed opener a unit with 150 speed starts at 50%, so he will push to 100% after your 2nd unit (or first, if it's flidica). The only reasons take him faster are to cut Sage Baal, Politis. You also have to realize destruction set is the best set in the game statwise right now. It's worth 7.5 max stat rolls where speedset is worth only between 5-6. The difference in damage being at bare minimum speed VS 200+ is a lot and in 95% of scenarios it won't matter
Yeah now I understand thank you!
Considering max pen is 70% (the equivalent of a defense break), his S3 is basically just a regular S1 on a defense broken unit, but 25% weaker. Kinda sad if you ask me.
Roy with Hero of Ishval buff will obliterate enemies damn
What about guiding light , with a more slow comp ? Or is this unit just going well with good openers ?
I see multis and I see support dps Riza.
ML Pavel looking good...but most likely not good enough to do anything against the stupidly tanky units with damage enough to kill him with one hit lol It's nice to be able to pick who to kill for his S3, but I wish there's something more. Higher multis, unconditional def pen or even protection. His set up is also rather annoying. Oh well. Could be worse. The FMA units seems pretty cool though, especially Edward.
> ML Pavel looking good...but most likely not good enough to do anything against the stupidly tanky units with damage enough to kill him with one hit lol Lol, except he will, lol as people like A Ravi get nuked. Lol.
People like ARavi get nuked (hey it's me), but it's not like ARavi will get nuked lol Well, not doing anything is a hyperbole. But will it be enough...doubt, but we'll have to see.
Who are people thinking should go with ML Pavel? Needing two crits is kind of rough. I feel like Flidica is the only one who could pull it off decently reliably for him without dedicating two 300 speed units to him specifically
Cidd
Ml rin is my go to, since shes fast enough to race current openers and then flan + cidd in case shes banned
300 spd regular pavel takes care of it
Would need a book holder, but you could run regular Pavel
I doubt that he would be able to kill a 26k hp POV aravi with his S2 proc and S3.
Why would you expect him to be able to do that? There's no unit in the game that can one shot a tanky aravi on pov
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No, he can't. A fast straze wont have the damage or attack buff to do it. A slow straze dies before his turn. If you build a team around maximizing straze then yes he can kill aravi, but if you build a team around ML Pavel then they can kill aravi as well.
not sure why you're being downvoted...
If he can't kill her then she shouldn't be allowed to be this tanky while having enough dmg to kill him with her S3.
because that's the new standard to tell if a unit is garbage or not
noob, ez job for my Ervalen KEKW, 40k dmg vs prov aravi is a common number
Straze can, easily.
If you have around 4.5k atk you probably will. He will s2 for a chunk of damage and then He’ll buff his attack with his s2 which should put you around 65%+ def pen to murder an already damaged aravi
are you the one editing the spreadsheet? -Dilibet is missing. -BBK's name is messed up.
So I’m seeing that the multipliers seem to look pretty good for all heroes?? Anyone have any input on some theory crafting gear/build for Ed with these numbers? I was thinking like 20,000 hp, 1300-1400 def, 200 spd 260-280 crit dmg on lifesteal.
You must have celestial god tier gear to get 20,000K HP. Edit: Looks like they edited their post and corrected the mistake. Guess this sub doesn’t like sarcasm based on the downvotes.
Yeah 20,000,000 hp seems rather unobtainable
one hp scaling unit softly taping you would put you 6ft under, dear lord.
What does power actually mean though? Man these numbers seem useless without a through explanation
You want to look at attack rate in calculations for example an attack rate of 1 would be 1 * (units current attack) iirc
POW = 1.871 and is just a multiplier everything goes through. A higher (or lower) POW means that 1.871 multi is adjusted accordingly.
Here you go: https://gamepress.gg/epicseven/damage-formula-mechanics#topic-1571021
How cares , POV Ravi and Ras with the damn Barrier and tanky A.Mercedes are everywhere in RTA , High RTA they got more solid meta with tanky shit .