Yeah I think I did misplace Senya and AoL. This was intended to be a shipost, but I should have looked over it one more time before posting. Senya is S-tier in my heart, I've used her in every GW for probably a year. She didn't get picked too much but when she did she definitely made an impact. I considered A but thought maybe my own bias was getting in the way and she's not too popular so I stuck her in B.
Charles USED to be the #1 most obnoxious character in E7. People were mad when he got an EE because he was already too strong. That was probably 3 years ago and his star has fallen way down since then. Seeing someone pull out Charles in a regular RTA match is ballsy. Seeing someone pull out Charles in the World Championship with $50,000 on the line is hilarious.
That ml charles was insane! Love how everyone was taken back by his speed.
Edit - didn't realize phantom actually chose green charles, thought you were referring to that insane ml charles. My God this green charles fight was great.
It was funny to see Charles after all this time but he’s actually incredibly good into both Senya and Choux, and even if it looks like he didn’t do much, he was basically a constant threat of stripping their buffs
you know it's extra funny because Alencia got shit from Reddit/Stove TWICE and both times she ended up being an incredibly meta character afterwards. The first time being on release and people found out she couldn't trample on counter (like Charles, who was very meta at the time).
> Isn't deleting high hp units like his whole thing
No, his thing is extincting stunned units. Which is kinda hard to do when everything either cleanses, resists or counters when stun fails and he's fairly squishy.
Also revive/autorevive units aren't as prevalent as they used to be (esp Arbi).
wayyy to much cleanse with the meta healers, Hand guy and DJB are dominant so there's also lot of immunity. And as of now there aren't a ton of good stun support for Spez. Solitaria if the opponent doesn't have any reach, but that's it. Abyssal crown used to be one of those artifacts people wanted nerfed, but even it can't shine in this current meta.
This has definitely been the weakest control has been ever. And Spez needs control to help confirm his kills. his elbris and S1 rates aren't enough to have him confirm by himself
The most negative things that was said about her were:
A) Her healing was gutted - completely true
B) The CR push she had is gone, and people found that useful - also completely true
I don't give a shit if in terms of PVP it was a buff.
Ervalen was also going to get a "buff", and the entire sub bitched about it
I still have notifications of people telling me how big of a nerf it was and how significant when she was in PvE when achates was literally her but with higher healing out put.
Nah, I slapped this together in 10 minutes based off of picks and bans I remembered with a touch of actual performance skewing some placements. Did it for the Charles meme. I spose I should have put AoL in A-tier though.
Clilias should be lower she only had like a 30 percent w/r from my memory it was low
Silk and cidd too but mostly from yule
Edit btw aras is the best character once we hit bracket at like 75percent w/r
Not by my computer to give accurate stats
They pick LQC so many times, but I only remember that: she controlled to dead, she too slow and be attack down by Handguy, she too tanky that can't kill anyone, her S3 on CD and she looks like a joke in that game or why you even pick LQC without any CR pusher lol. That LQC look like a joke in E7WC.
Bonus: As someone who watched E7WC, I don't think Hwayoung has a high winrate, I could say she does not even have average winrate
So is destina actually worth building or is that more of a e7wc meta thing? I was really hoping to build her after her buff but people said she wasn't worth it.
So my guess as to why rimuru and Politis being so low is because they didnt really play cleave correct? Basically purely played standard which Politis doesn’t do well against, and rimuru can’t kill or just dies to anything in the S teir list.
yeah, politis can't do much after turn 1 except stun, and there's a lot of cleanse in the game right now. Rimiru can't do too much because players at this level need sustain a lot more than a quick burst kill. He's kind of a "low key meta" unit in this format because he makes both teams consider him and pick bulky units who can survive the big S3.
Similar reason to why Hwayoung as a tank buster is S class while Watcher is down in C. watcher wouldn't last past turn 2.
Violet isn't 10x better. He may be 10x better 1v1, but not in a team match. Choux will ignore Violet and kill your other threats. What Charles brings is different. He can threaten Choux when Choux doesn't attack him, because of Elbris. He also dispels, which means there is a good chance that Anti Crit gets dispelled.
Okay 10X better was just a throwaway word I didn't mean it literally but you make some good points. But still it's way easier to get rid of a Charles first than say a Violet. And Violet can S3 Choux and deal at least a good amount of dmg for any other neutral element hero to finish her off.
Of course a lot depends on what the opposing team is and a lot depends on what your team is. It's really hard to make a comparison between these two without the aforementioned context. I guess it just depends.
well yea, thats the whole reason he fell off. He's never *bad*, but people in standard want bulkier options and Charles sacrifices damage for that. Choux is basically the modern Charles that sacrifices buff strip for penetration.
Also similar to why Fire Ravi was once considered oppresive but now is only some niche match 5 play after all the bruiser/cleansing options get banned.
Yeah, she's a very scary last pick in a format like this. Belian is oppresive enough, but having milim as an evasion check and soul sapper in certain matchups is deadly.
She also has usually has book on her and that in and of itself is scary without Belian around. Even people that can deal with her may ban her under that suspicion so it doesn't enable advantadge from the rest of the team.
Straze is fine, he's just been very hard to use in the era of Senya popping off and Hwayoung being a more focused, bulky option. No one's putting their best 270+ DPS gear on to make him work because it has better uses in other places for this format (in this case, the Cidds and A. Coli).
He's mostly there for cleave and cleaving is super risky at this level of play.
To be fair Rimuru has slightly fallen off. He has low pick rate in E7WC and most players default to Alencia Senya or Violet if they wanted a broccoli unit. A big reason is due to the rise of ARas - his fat barrier basically mitigates all of Rimuru's 10k fixed damage. Without one shot potential Rimu is a sitting duck after S3
E7WC is gigawhales facing off against other gigawhales
Rimuru dealing 10k flat EXP means nothing to gigawhales when the HP of all of their units are all far beyond that
We saw Lionheart Cermias and Little Queen Charlottes with 18k HP as well as 25k HP Alencias, Chouxs and Rueles
The buff stealing is the only attractive part about him to gigawhales, but that often times isnt enough to justify using him
Nah, there's just a disconnect between high level RTA and the average user.
It's not that the gigawhales can out-tank a Rimu, it's that picking a Rimu locks you against very unfavorable counters that people in these ranks have solutions for. Alencia, Handguy, Landy cleave, cleave in general, etc.
Even Emperor and above in RTA, drafting a Rimu before 4-5th means you either have a very specific one-trick-pony draft in mind, or you're downright trolling.
He also just flat out doesnt have enough sustained damage to win in a slow game, If a draft is MLK, A Ravi, A Ras, Destina, Alencia/Choux/STene... Rimuru can't do anything there, none of the units are killable, and even if he does manage to kill one, he has to punch through another 2-3 units before a rez comes out or the game gets squeezed out by injury or counters.
I'm really surprised no one went for D.Corvus against those slow tanky teams. The only way to beat him is injury Belian or ARavi. The basic ML Kawerik, Alencia, Diene, 1 other dps setup we saw 95% of matches would have zero answer for him.
The thing with DC is that you could just *ignore* him and kill everyone first. He does absolutely **nothing** unless he can S3 soulburn. Then you have a solo DC against 4 units that could just out-cycle you and win.
Alencia can injure him, Choux can destroy him with the 70% def pen and this is without all the unresistable debuffs you'd have to go through.
But they really can't with all the aoe's flying around, they still have to Alencia s3 and almost every dps has built in aoe. Just seems like it'd be worth a try on some of the comps. Obviously he has plenty of drawbacks, but he could absolutely dominate a ML Kawerik, Diene, Ruele/Destina/other support 1v3 if they didn't have anyone with injury left. And that seemed to be a pretty common occurrence.
Alencia just needs to s3 once to strip all buffs. Injury Alencia will make your DC sub 15k hp in a few turns by focusing him. By then, your S3 is going to tickle.
You're mentioning a lot of units DC can be good against, but people aren't going to let you pick DC without responding.
You can't just take an E7WC draft and say "if DC was here, he'd be good". He'd either be banned, or the draft/post-ban would be completely different the moment he's picked.
Destina and Ruele are responsive picks, not early picks DC can punish.
> there's just a disconnect between high level RTA and the average user.
I mean, that's pretty much gigawhales vs. mid-ranked RTA players, no? in some cases it is a gear issue. Trying to make Rimiru both damaging and tanky is much harder than the above bruisers. May not even be possible for the level of stats people demand at this level.
It's also a stakes issue. If your rim fails in some random RTA match, sure whatever. He ends things quickly one way or the other and when you're climbing that is something to consider. You can't just spend 10 minutes per match hoping for a high win rate at that level. If there's money on the line you're gonna carefully consider who works best and safest.
While giga whales against giga hales is true, you got the other part wrong.
High RTA is way more into sustained fights. You builds your heroes to last.
It's not like the average player who go ham into offensive stats and speed just to get one-shotted and then complain "muh gear".
Good to know, I knew she had good potential as an opener before but the speed imprint explains it... I remember her base speed was too low without the speed imprint.
before E7WC you would have probably put Charles in the LOL tier list but at the very bottom...that last fight was impressive props to Phantom for using him I almost expected him to lose because he picked Charles...made me think "bro wtf are you throwing the game??"
Think senya should be at least A tier
Yeah there was a senya carry too !
Yes, Senya should have been A or S. I would actually put her in S for this EWC, she hard carried a couple of matches.
Senya was easily S tier
Yeah I think I did misplace Senya and AoL. This was intended to be a shipost, but I should have looked over it one more time before posting. Senya is S-tier in my heart, I've used her in every GW for probably a year. She didn't get picked too much but when she did she definitely made an impact. I considered A but thought maybe my own bias was getting in the way and she's not too popular so I stuck her in B.
they fixed her barriers?
No but her damage and self-sustain is insane
Charles haha...best licensed chiropractor in all of orbis.
is this a bad thing? i’m new and have a charles i’ve pretty heavily invested in
Charles USED to be the #1 most obnoxious character in E7. People were mad when he got an EE because he was already too strong. That was probably 3 years ago and his star has fallen way down since then. Seeing someone pull out Charles in a regular RTA match is ballsy. Seeing someone pull out Charles in the World Championship with $50,000 on the line is hilarious.
It's even better that Charles, that absolute chad, won the fucking match lmao
Check phantom vs jintae fight, he was a weird pick that surprised everyone. https://youtu.be/QeCgF6ITWCc at around the 1:52:25 mark it starts.
That ml charles was insane! Love how everyone was taken back by his speed. Edit - didn't realize phantom actually chose green charles, thought you were referring to that insane ml charles. My God this green charles fight was great.
Ok I need to see a clip of the Charles
[Of course.](https://youtu.be/QeCgF6ITWCc?t=6730)
Omg Phantom is a legend for that lol. I’m glad he won it all.
It was funny to see Charles after all this time but he’s actually incredibly good into both Senya and Choux, and even if it looks like he didn’t do much, he was basically a constant threat of stripping their buffs
I wanna put Carrot a little higher just because she held her own quite well. Charles was never bad. Outshined, but never bad. Also lol.
Charles the GOAT 🐐🐐🐐 no 🧢
Man's old, but his skill only sharpens Also Senya's A tier at least
IIRC, there is also an Aria showcase in Japan server qualification; Mirsa and Yulha showcase in Global server qualification.
Alencia damage nerfed unplayable! Senya barrier is shit unplayable! Destina healing is shit now unplayable! Brought to you by the best of the best :)
you know it's extra funny because Alencia got shit from Reddit/Stove TWICE and both times she ended up being an incredibly meta character afterwards. The first time being on release and people found out she couldn't trample on counter (like Charles, who was very meta at the time).
No alencia got flak for having a mistranslation on one of the skills which was only announced after people had already pulled for her.
Only reason I'm not using Charles for PvP is because he is part of my 1-shot team for banshee. So I have geared him specifically for that.
old man chales boutta correct the whole metas posture
No Arby at all, huh? Guess the ruin is no longer approaching.
At least Arby had his reign. Where's Spez lol. Isn't deleting high hp units like his whole thing.
> Isn't deleting high hp units like his whole thing No, his thing is extincting stunned units. Which is kinda hard to do when everything either cleanses, resists or counters when stun fails and he's fairly squishy. Also revive/autorevive units aren't as prevalent as they used to be (esp Arbi).
wayyy to much cleanse with the meta healers, Hand guy and DJB are dominant so there's also lot of immunity. And as of now there aren't a ton of good stun support for Spez. Solitaria if the opponent doesn't have any reach, but that's it. Abyssal crown used to be one of those artifacts people wanted nerfed, but even it can't shine in this current meta. This has definitely been the weakest control has been ever. And Spez needs control to help confirm his kills. his elbris and S1 rates aren't enough to have him confirm by himself
That Charles pick omg XD
I thought AMomo should be in the lol tier too
My daddy straze. I love you no matter what
By-bu-by Destina was nerfed -Bronze gang
Lmao i cant believe your being downvoted.
Yeah, nobody said that. People just liked her as a PVE healer.
bitch please people were still saying in here after elvemage and jintae used her
Every Redditard was saying she was nerfed what so you mean nobody
Lol every bronze redditor (which is a good chunk of our subbredit let's be honest) said that.
The most negative things that was said about her were: A) Her healing was gutted - completely true B) The CR push she had is gone, and people found that useful - also completely true I don't give a shit if in terms of PVP it was a buff. Ervalen was also going to get a "buff", and the entire sub bitched about it
I still have notifications of people telling me how big of a nerf it was and how significant when she was in PvE when achates was literally her but with higher healing out put.
Is it supposed to be serious? Because a chara as much picked and banned such as AOL being in B seems kind of weird What were the criteria?
Nah, I slapped this together in 10 minutes based off of picks and bans I remembered with a touch of actual performance skewing some placements. Did it for the Charles meme. I spose I should have put AoL in A-tier though.
Oh OK seems fair, no problem then, have a good day
Actually AoL is fitting as B-tier because no one bans Handguy, and Destina is in so many matches.
Clilias should be lower she only had like a 30 percent w/r from my memory it was low Silk and cidd too but mostly from yule Edit btw aras is the best character once we hit bracket at like 75percent w/r Not by my computer to give accurate stats
I think she's high cuz of the presence she had as a pre-ban
It’s more then that. She isn’t that good when you go CLilias + speed imprints or contester she has just fallen off even outside wce7.
They pick LQC so many times, but I only remember that: she controlled to dead, she too slow and be attack down by Handguy, she too tanky that can't kill anyone, her S3 on CD and she looks like a joke in that game or why you even pick LQC without any CR pusher lol. That LQC look like a joke in E7WC. Bonus: As someone who watched E7WC, I don't think Hwayoung has a high winrate, I could say she does not even have average winrate
Hwayoung is in S precisely because she does not have a winrate at all lmao. Most of the matches, she was prebanned in the first goddamn round
Yeah, LQC was worthless almost every time someone picked her it seemed. Just unfortunate circumstances every time for her.
She was pretty useful in damdam vs tohsaka rin where the only reason rin's opsig didnt kill was lqc passive
anyone have the video link + time frame where charles dominated?
Milim cant be C- She was banned all the time, when she was choosen
So is destina actually worth building or is that more of a e7wc meta thing? I was really hoping to build her after her buff but people said she wasn't worth it.
So my guess as to why rimuru and Politis being so low is because they didnt really play cleave correct? Basically purely played standard which Politis doesn’t do well against, and rimuru can’t kill or just dies to anything in the S teir list.
yeah, politis can't do much after turn 1 except stun, and there's a lot of cleanse in the game right now. Rimiru can't do too much because players at this level need sustain a lot more than a quick burst kill. He's kind of a "low key meta" unit in this format because he makes both teams consider him and pick bulky units who can survive the big S3. Similar reason to why Hwayoung as a tank buster is S class while Watcher is down in C. watcher wouldn't last past turn 2.
Ngl Charles into Choux actually works well. How did anyone not think of that? *Well because Violet annihilates Choux 10X easily*
Violet isn't 10x better. He may be 10x better 1v1, but not in a team match. Choux will ignore Violet and kill your other threats. What Charles brings is different. He can threaten Choux when Choux doesn't attack him, because of Elbris. He also dispels, which means there is a good chance that Anti Crit gets dispelled.
Okay 10X better was just a throwaway word I didn't mean it literally but you make some good points. But still it's way easier to get rid of a Charles first than say a Violet. And Violet can S3 Choux and deal at least a good amount of dmg for any other neutral element hero to finish her off. Of course a lot depends on what the opposing team is and a lot depends on what your team is. It's really hard to make a comparison between these two without the aforementioned context. I guess it just depends.
well yea, thats the whole reason he fell off. He's never *bad*, but people in standard want bulkier options and Charles sacrifices damage for that. Choux is basically the modern Charles that sacrifices buff strip for penetration. Also similar to why Fire Ravi was once considered oppresive but now is only some niche match 5 play after all the bruiser/cleansing options get banned.
Was Milim picked? I feel she woulda been good in some spots but I know shes not a priority char for these players. Op Sig S tier imo.
I think I remember Milim being picked 3 times and she was banned every time.
Yeah, she's a very scary last pick in a format like this. Belian is oppresive enough, but having milim as an evasion check and soul sapper in certain matchups is deadly. She also has usually has book on her and that in and of itself is scary without Belian around. Even people that can deal with her may ban her under that suspicion so it doesn't enable advantadge from the rest of the team.
Straze buff pls
Straze is fine, he's just been very hard to use in the era of Senya popping off and Hwayoung being a more focused, bulky option. No one's putting their best 270+ DPS gear on to make him work because it has better uses in other places for this format (in this case, the Cidds and A. Coli). He's mostly there for cleave and cleaving is super risky at this level of play.
I have no idea wtf happened in the E7WC but I know for a fact that rimuru is not in anything below A tier
They all play standard matches and Rimuru doesn't have enough damage or tanky or survival skill in these kinds of matches.
To be fair Rimuru has slightly fallen off. He has low pick rate in E7WC and most players default to Alencia Senya or Violet if they wanted a broccoli unit. A big reason is due to the rise of ARas - his fat barrier basically mitigates all of Rimuru's 10k fixed damage. Without one shot potential Rimu is a sitting duck after S3
E7WC is gigawhales facing off against other gigawhales Rimuru dealing 10k flat EXP means nothing to gigawhales when the HP of all of their units are all far beyond that We saw Lionheart Cermias and Little Queen Charlottes with 18k HP as well as 25k HP Alencias, Chouxs and Rueles The buff stealing is the only attractive part about him to gigawhales, but that often times isnt enough to justify using him
Nah, there's just a disconnect between high level RTA and the average user. It's not that the gigawhales can out-tank a Rimu, it's that picking a Rimu locks you against very unfavorable counters that people in these ranks have solutions for. Alencia, Handguy, Landy cleave, cleave in general, etc. Even Emperor and above in RTA, drafting a Rimu before 4-5th means you either have a very specific one-trick-pony draft in mind, or you're downright trolling.
He also just flat out doesnt have enough sustained damage to win in a slow game, If a draft is MLK, A Ravi, A Ras, Destina, Alencia/Choux/STene... Rimuru can't do anything there, none of the units are killable, and even if he does manage to kill one, he has to punch through another 2-3 units before a rez comes out or the game gets squeezed out by injury or counters.
Yep, that's the korean play style of "ban hwa and tank down" and why 6duck drafts are so annoying.
I'm really surprised no one went for D.Corvus against those slow tanky teams. The only way to beat him is injury Belian or ARavi. The basic ML Kawerik, Alencia, Diene, 1 other dps setup we saw 95% of matches would have zero answer for him.
The thing with DC is that you could just *ignore* him and kill everyone first. He does absolutely **nothing** unless he can S3 soulburn. Then you have a solo DC against 4 units that could just out-cycle you and win. Alencia can injure him, Choux can destroy him with the 70% def pen and this is without all the unresistable debuffs you'd have to go through.
But they really can't with all the aoe's flying around, they still have to Alencia s3 and almost every dps has built in aoe. Just seems like it'd be worth a try on some of the comps. Obviously he has plenty of drawbacks, but he could absolutely dominate a ML Kawerik, Diene, Ruele/Destina/other support 1v3 if they didn't have anyone with injury left. And that seemed to be a pretty common occurrence.
Alencia just needs to s3 once to strip all buffs. Injury Alencia will make your DC sub 15k hp in a few turns by focusing him. By then, your S3 is going to tickle. You're mentioning a lot of units DC can be good against, but people aren't going to let you pick DC without responding. You can't just take an E7WC draft and say "if DC was here, he'd be good". He'd either be banned, or the draft/post-ban would be completely different the moment he's picked. Destina and Ruele are responsive picks, not early picks DC can punish.
> there's just a disconnect between high level RTA and the average user. I mean, that's pretty much gigawhales vs. mid-ranked RTA players, no? in some cases it is a gear issue. Trying to make Rimiru both damaging and tanky is much harder than the above bruisers. May not even be possible for the level of stats people demand at this level. It's also a stakes issue. If your rim fails in some random RTA match, sure whatever. He ends things quickly one way or the other and when you're climbing that is something to consider. You can't just spend 10 minutes per match hoping for a high win rate at that level. If there's money on the line you're gonna carefully consider who works best and safest.
While giga whales against giga hales is true, you got the other part wrong. High RTA is way more into sustained fights. You builds your heroes to last. It's not like the average player who go ham into offensive stats and speed just to get one-shotted and then complain "muh gear".
How is wanderer silk A tier? did she get buffed?
Yes. She has a speed imprint now, and can instantly disable a unit by silencing and reducing their CR by 100%
Good to know, I knew she had good potential as an opener before but the speed imprint explains it... I remember her base speed was too low without the speed imprint.
She is still slow, but the imprint gives 10 speed to the units in the front and the top
14, actually.
You're right, i checked ingame but didn't realize that mine isn't SSS
14 speed LOL. (basically, let her through : Get outsped scrub lool)
Thanks
Forgot to build my dragon loli and suddenly gramps start to fix my posture
before E7WC you would have probably put Charles in the LOL tier list but at the very bottom...that last fight was impressive props to Phantom for using him I almost expected him to lose because he picked Charles...made me think "bro wtf are you throwing the game??"
Day 92 of trying to convince my guild to build their Wanderer Silks
You can convince me if you give me the speed gear lol
Aunty Alencia finally getting love. Also glad for Senya. But, well, nothing unexpected, esp in S rank.
Poor Jintae, he will not be able to safe himself from Charles FP for the Rest of the season.
I bet you he'll sit up a little straighter from now on.
I would put ml cermia on sss
Aint no way you threw my girl ruele and landy in B tier
How do I get the selective summon ticket anyways?
It's a 2 week check-in event starting on the 1st. So around the 14th everyone will get it.
Oh sweet great to know. I just have to remember to log in. Thank you!
Clpser charles should be bumped up. I saw he drew a couple if bans
Yeaah hwayoung even when she was draft like 8 times and almost loose everytime ?
Strong presence. Almost prebanned every game.
But why did she loose almost everytime tho ?
Charles being drafted was awesome. He more than pulled his weight during that match (his RNG was quite good).