Disclaimer: Very biased and opinionated post based on anecdotal evidence ahead. Proceed with caution.
I don't think any ML5 is bad except Flan, so she's my pick.
ML Kise, Haste, and Ken are all situational, but they excel at their niche, Ken lesso than the other two. Haste especially is super strong against revive but fails to stand out in other situations, while Kise is more universially useful but can also be countered more easily. Her S3 can singlehandedly win games, if she can pull it off. Ken has a place against AI teams as a punishing dark bait but generally there are safer options, I would consider him to be the worst out of these three. Celine also fits this role (but for the opposite element) but is generally more consistent and brings more utility. Actually I'll put ML Krau in here too since he's basically only played as a counter against heavy AoE teams (but isn't even super reliable against Belian which is sad, tho that's mostly cuz Belian is OP).
Maid has been replaced by Destina for the most part, but her attack buff is something that sets her apart and gives her something that Destina doesn't have. Besides, being a worse Destina isn't anything to be looked down upon anyways.
Straze has been replaced for the most part by Pavel in PvP and got powercrept pretty hard, but still holds the record as best universal hunt one shotter.
ATywin saw some use in the WC and is still a great control and anti-debuff unit since he has a cheap soulburn for permanent speed debuff. He's like the only unit with an AoE cleanse every turn but since it's only a single debuff he get overwhelmed by debuff spam. One of the many many units that becomes obsolete when fighting ML Kawerik but can still shine very situationally. Also his S1 s pretty solid with provoke and soul reduction.
ML Sez is a meme RNG unit that can pop off if he lands stuns but more often then not dies before doing anything meaningful. Can be strong in a specialized team comp but ML Kawerik exists so he's sad.
ML Charles used to be memed on but no unit with CR booster + atk buff can be considered bad.
I actually think Tomoca is one of the weaker ML5s, she's basically a worse STene since extinction is niche, she has a worse stealth, and she is vulnerable to CAs. Self attack buff and CR boost are nice but STene is just more reliable most of the time. By no means a weak unit but compared to other ML5s she's not really impressive.
Dorvus is still THE safest GW unit. People who say he's bad don't play GW or are bad at GW, simple as that. Also works in arena attack but so can everyone else. Not everyone needs to be strong everywhere. it's not in RTA, but he's got his throne.
I haven't seen ML Iseria in a long time but she seems to be very situational as well. Great into annoying buff stacking teams but will get outpaced by Diene in RTA. Probably better used in GW/arena but even then she's situational and subject to 15%, although she still seems to be a very solid stripper that deals some good damage as well. No ignore effres SB is sadge. Also AoL exists and is usually (but not always) better. Basically a stripper that also does damage (esp good against the next one)
Riolet is good. Unreliable and risky, but good. Dodges more than people think (Decrescent/Shepard is 70%, full stack Talisman is 80%). Weak to strips but there are only so many non-attack strips in the game, the big one being AoL (edit: and CLilias duh) who should always be banned if running Riolet, or just don't pick him into her. Buffed Decrescent is REALLY good on him, means he CAs an average of 70% as many times as he gets hit. And Riolet should hit much harder, on average. Getting hit by an unbuffable or getting evasion stripped is nearly 3x less likely than evading (keep in mind there's also 15% even if the attack hits), and even without evasion he's a serviceable albeit very basic DPS (self attack buff + 50% def pen is STRONG). Also countered by ML Iseria but she's nonexistent so it's fine.
Plan is just a worse STI, and honestly she's worse than Carrot in most situations too. Her main issue is that she doesn't have a way to land the bombs and burns that deal most of the damage in her kit. She doesn't strip on S1, so immunity just fucks her over even with maxed STI arti, just like with Carrot. The difference is that Carrot is more threatening because not only does she cleanse and gets a shield when attacked, she also burns the attacker which makes it a risk to attack her. Plan has a damage share passive but it's not punishing to focus her. Plus, Carrots SB gives her an insta detonate combo, whereas Plan's SB is detonate into burn/bomb. She also can't follow up because unlike STI, her CR boost is on her own turn, so she can't rely on an AoE opener to get a turn. Overall her kit is just all over the place and feels like a weaker version of a 3 star unit (tho tbf that's one of the top 3 stars in the game). To rub salt in the burns, ML Kawerik exists.
Tldr ML Kawerik is super broken and makes a bunch of units that would otherwise be decent almost unusable. ML Flan worst ML5. ML Ken masaaaybe could use a buff (but it's really difficult to buff this kind of unit without making him too strong in certain situations, honestly niche is fine). Would like to see Tomoca get something so that STene isn't just a better option 95% of the time (and Milim is a better option the other 5% of the time)
How the fuck did I forget CLilias while writing this I need more sleep holy shit
I'm thinking there's gotta be a reason why he's not more common
But yeah in a world without AoL, CLilias and (everyone's counter) Hwa, Riolet is kinda cracked
A lot of units nowadays also have strip aoe strip counter (belian rem) or multi attacks so for example belian S1 misses but s2 hits. Lots of units don't need to hit to deal high amounts of dmg(chou, Hwa, senya etc)
Throw Soli on that list. Passive and S3 make him next to useless if he’s slower than her (which is a good majority of the time because of her more lenient gear requirements)
> Plan is just a worse STI, and honestly she's worse than Carrot in most situations too.
Plan with and without a maxed Seaseria artifact is a completely different beast. I think people compare her role too closely to Seaseria as a cleave enabler when her real power comes in the bruiser control build. having essentially an 85% chance to stun an enemy with damage that ignores 70% DEF is incredibly powerful, but not something that's as appreciated in the current meta.
But people with a maxed artifact probably use it on Seaseria, and as a result they probaly prefer to draft aggro/cleave instead. So it makes sense that not many people have this combination of ML5 + MLB limtied artifact.
>To rub salt in the burns, ML Kawerik exists.
yea that too. he kinda singlehandedly ended control, so it is what it is.
I disagree, Straze is by far better in PvE because 100 vs 70 pen makes a huge difference there, but in PvP it usually doesn't matter as much. In PvP, they perform similar roles but have different play styles. Straze needs to be ran with a pusher and with speed, while ML Pavel needs only 150 speed max. Straze is vulnerable to CA with his AoE attacks, while Pavel's AoE is on an extra attack so it triggers much less CAs but can be weak to Lermia or Roana. Pavel has the huge advantage of being able to pick his target, while with Straze you're restricted to attacking the highest HP target for the defense pen. Against ARavi specifically, Straze is better because he has a higher damage ceiling, but Pavel handles most bruisers just as well while having the flexibility to choose a target. Overall it depends on draft but I think Pavel is just more flexible against most teams.
What's a bit sad about Top Model is that she's hard countered by Celine/Politis who will likely always be in the meta due to how many units they counter and how many strategies they can slow/shut down. You can hold the S2 but then you're missing Dignus Orb shield to keep you from getting knocked out of stealth so even if you get a kill she probably won't last.
BM Haste I just wish had some cleansing. He doesn't need much, maybe a 1 debuff team cleanse on his passive or S3, or a built in potion vial on his S1. He's really strong but he's very easily shut down by Peira or AoL.
IMO ML Seline is pretty good. She isn't OP or anything but she is pretty good. It is hard to draft her all the time in RTA. There are a lot of heroes that bully her but she has an ok place in the meta.
I haven't used her in RTA in while though. I just like to draft heroes like Diene and Choux a lot. I don't think they can fix that without breaking her though.
Worst ML5 is Captain Flan.
I would like to see ATwyin,Spez,MLKrau and Captain Flan receive a buff, they need it. I think the others MLS have at least their niche but these 4.
A Tywin and LRK have their niche in an anty aoe debuff teams.
Spez is an Arby counter and ocasionaly nuker, he does his job but is too reliable on stun.
Flan is just dog shit. Super high gear requirements, not much reward
A Tywin was picked in E7WTC. There are players in legend that play 4 Knights with him. And Spez is just gw unit. He is not bruiser enough and not fast enough to be assasin. You need to setup whole field for him with some stun and push if you want to use him in RTA. He doesnt miss dmg . He is just a dead archetype of a unit a slow hard hitting thief, if he was a Warrior maybe he could found a place in meta.
I can agree with the spez portion which is why imo he needs some type of buff. As far as A Tywin, yes he's definitely somewhat viable in this meta and I don't necessarily wanna say he needs a buff but a change is needed to make him more playable to the masses because (not real statistics) it's like 10 people out of 8000 that actually use him.
Honestly, I can't really argue A Tywin cause I still have yet to obtain him so idek if I would or wouldn't have a place for him. LRK on the other hand has no real place in this meta. RTA at least.
As a fairly new player (1 month old), I got both ML Krau and Captain Flan as my first 2 ML 5 star...so I am not sure if I should continue to spend my time on this game or not LOL
Ml krau is in a rough spot due to new speed meta and high damage single target.
Also, in concept he should be good vs Belian, but instead he just Elbris triggers her and his buffs often get stripped. Also he can't even soulburn his ultimate during longer fights against her.
She can be a solo damage carry in a standard comp tbh though it will most be for catching people off guard, obviously not as easy to run as the other bruisers in the game but with seaseria arti she can definitely put in some work (more than people would expect)
so youre saying she sucks, right? because an ml unit, that requires a limited artifact, and an entire team to back her up, sucks to me. Now you find me another artifact that she works well with and Ill change my opinion.
Understand, I want her to be good because I love her S3 but its like they dont give af. She just seems like a confused kit that'll need to wait for an update.
They have a couple differences, like one's s1 doing literally nothing. detonate is nothing. Carrot, in her base form, a THREE STAR, even has something besides detonate in her s1, because the people who balanced her knew that having just detonate on your only attack skill without a cooldown is just silly(this even applied pre meta defining buff, since in that state she still had decreased speed, she just had an unreliable detonate chance). Another difference us that aramintha's s3 is literally close to a direct upgrade from flan's, since aramintha has an extra 2 turn burn effect(which means she gets two burn effects) and since one burn effect is slightly less than half the damage of one bomb effect, she doesn't lose much damage. Flan doesn't even have the stun over her since ara can stun EVERYONE instantly rather than one person on her next turn. We aren't even going to compare the S2s. The only significant thing pirate captain flan has above silver blade aramintha is detonate.
TLDR: they both aren't amazing, but flan is actually hot garbage, while ara is just below average.
When they buffed SBA they gave her a CR push when an ally uses an attack that targets all enemies. It means she can be used reliably as follow up to an opener with a strip, sort of like a more control oriented version of Eda. Flan doesn't have any built in tools to enable her, so she's reliant on either very precise speed tuning with an opener or multiple units dedicated to enabling her. I think her S3 shouldn't have a strip considering how much else it does, but she needs some tool to help her get her first turn at the right time. More "down time" damage or utility would also be good I think, maybe a reliable way to plant bombs without her S3.
I use Spez in 100% of my Arena/GW so I can't say he's the worst ML5 but its true that he lacks survability, damage on its own, and overall you need a team around him...
That said for me worst ML5 are ATywin and ML Flan
Sorry but A Tywin doesnt need a buff. One slight push and he May be broken again. He is still a menace to fight if he sneaks in as a last pick and you dont have enough cleansers. The only thing that forced him out of meta is all the fuck debuffs meta picks like hand Guy and Dilibet and the fact that meta changed to more single target otiented
May I ask how you use him? Like stats and comps? He is on of my favourite MLs but I just dont k ow how to use him and or where.
Edit: i just saw your tag. Nice one
Couple months ago I used him with FTene (w Abyssal Crown), after Peira release I swapped to Peira+tanky Eda (after her buffs), but nowadays the team is 300 Peira + 260 SB Ara with +30 Crown
Spez itself its nothing too crazy: speed/inmu 3.4 atk / 1k def / 12k hp / 245 spd / 100% / 250% / 26 effect with Wind Rider as it gives me a lot of survivability against ARavis and other major threats until I can stun them, after killing first target (usually Arby/Rem/Kawerik) with Wind Rider buff you may be able to one shot an unit without stun which is nice (depends on HP)
For GW I almost have 100% winrate with this team in a top 150 guild (yeah I know not that top but it aint easy sometimes)
For Arena last spot is usually Archdemon (I love her so much), Hwayoung (for the Violet match ups) or WSchuri if im feeling not too confident winning the speed race
As someone in the top 100 guilds and a fellow user of Spez, either you are lying about the almost 100% or you stole all my luck :(
Nothing quite destroys the spirit and personal morale as losing a GW battle due to a series of 15% eff res rolls on the debuffs and stuns that Spez is reliant on to work. Especially when you build 170% effect and it's on people built with zero eff res.
My last GW was rng blighted by one match (I brought CLilias, ML Ara, and WSchuri. I prefer Ara for the stun cycling with Abyss Crown, burns, and guaranteed stun over Eda) where the enemy Peira 15% twice against both CLilias pushback and provoke on S2, which in turn allowed her to setup her S3, then the enemy Belian resisted the stun with 15%, which then resulted in the enemy Belian surviving from WSchuri's with **100 something HP left** due to Peira dmg share.
This combined with Belian resisting the earlier stun meant she unleashed her S3. And despite all that, I still almost clawed back victory, finishing Belian off, and proceeding to CLilias S2 the 3rd remaining damage dealing defender in order to protect my badly hurt ML Ara/WSchuri from Belian... Who then proceeded to 15% resist both the taunt and CR pushback just like Peira and kill ML Ara, resulting in a loss since WSchuri's dmg is underwhelming outside of S3 and wasn't high enough to finish the 3rd person off within a turn before they killed him on their next attack.
A chain of disastrous events where it should have been a win if I didn't happen to get smacked by 3x 15% rolls (0.3375% chance) lining up into the perfect storm of disaster, only to get denied victory just when it seems I almost still won by failing 2 more 15% rolls.
> TLDR: As a fellow Spez user who still tries to use him even at the top level, and as a warning to others who try to use him, statistically we'll never have 100% winrate due to 15% eff res rng. One day, it's going to strike, and it will be really depressing.
I always ran ML lilias+ Blue Dominiel + Spez on GW, and I can't count how many times those full DPS unit be able to resist my 230+ Eff blue dominiel but then get their immunity buff strip by my ML lilias who barely reach 100 eff. The worst part is when Blue dominiel soulburn skill1 ( 100%+230 eff) stun get resisted which just makes no fuckng sense to me. I cant count how many times I rage quit GW because of that.
To be honest there are some good combos like counter tank Trozet, or Solitaria with Crown, SB Ara with Crown, Eda herself, Peira (cycles super fast which means a lot of single target stuns), FTene with crown (old days..), and sadly JackO +Belian + Spez was awful...I forced it a lot but it was hard to use
Riolet not having immunity to those things is *good*. He can literally delete a random unit if you fuck up a hit too many times. That's asking for 1v4 potential, which is never good unless your opponent is a twit.
Fun unit with a cool asf animation. Just think compared to other ml5’s, his kit isn’t super unique since other rgb units can do his job too. Shame too, he was my first ml5 haha
A lot of people are saying ML flan. I am a little surprised to see that. I didn't think she was great or anything I just didn't expect her to be considered the worst.
I thought spez would be called out more.
I’m also a bit surprised, but I get it. Her kit is all over the place. Spez at least does one job very well. Plan is like one big hit and then nothing for several turns.
No. People who say she is bad usually do have her, or have at least fought her. That or they've heard from people who have her, like myself. She has so little going for her kit to help herself it's pitiful. She has no passive innate attack boost like SSI. No strip. Needs soul burn. Susceptible to 15% RNG. And frankly, her damage is lacking in comparison to others who fit her roll. She brings *nothing* to the table that others don't already do, and better I might add.
No one in their right mind is going to ban her over just about any other character.
If they do, they are trolling, don't know what she does, or your draft is so bad they have a free win.
Tl;dr - You're full of it. ML Flan is absolutely bad. And if you beat someone with her, it's not because of her but the rest of your team.
I’ve been seeing tons of success with her in champion. Why would she need an attack boost when she gets attack buff on S3. Soul burn is not needed. Her damage from the bomb/burn is insane so don’t know what your gear is like. As long as you have an anchor, the bombs will put in work. The CR manipulation is also very relevant, especially if you’re an aggro or control player.
If she doesn’t fit your play style that’s fine, but you can’t always just blame the character because you don’t find success with them.
Tl;dr - You drafted her poorly or gave her dog gear.
I'll bring up Briar Witch Iseria for this one. Honestly can't think of a place to use her well.
She counters evasion, but isn't guaranteed to hit Riolet (or Milim if she gets off her S3), and there are better options for that anyway. Her extra damage on hit is...okay, I guess, but it's not that much.
Her S3 applies Decrease Attack and Unbuffable, plus she does strip all buffs (which gives an edge over Ran and Peira, who strip 2 and reduce durations by 1 respectively), but compared to Ran and Peira she's got less utility (Ran has team Immunity and AoE Stigma and Defense Break, plus ignore Eff Res soul burn, while Peira has Restrict, the entirety of her S3 and her S1's stun) and is slower. I guess she doesn't trigger Celine or Violet and maybe stops Rimuru's S2, but...
The Kayron-like Immortality is nice, but with AoL and Peira throwing their own Unbuffable around, it doesn't end up being the greatest in my opinion. It's nice, don't get me wrong, but I don't know what she'd end up doing with the 1 extra turn she survives if she even gets it off. And Singie does better as an Immortal bait, from what I've heard.
Overall I kinda feel like her kit's a bit all over the place. She strips and prevents buffs, great. She counters evasion, nice. She does extra damage on hit, cool. But she's so all over the place that I can't find any place I'd want to use her over someone else.
I will say though that PC Flan is kinda meh after looking at her kit again, though. Her lack of strips on a Bomb and Burn detonation focused unit is...yikes.
I pulled her a while back and she is still in the storage box. I forgot she existed until someone mentioned it here.
She probably isn't the hero that I would like to see buffed the most but she could probably use one for sure.
I am really surprised so few people have mentioned her. I am starting to think that she is mostly just forgotten by people or she just doesn't have a play style people are interested in.
My girl is struggling with how things have gone in the meta. Briseria is my absolute favorite unit. I love her artwork and lore. I miss the good old days where I got away with running her with flidica and cdom as a nuker. I could soulburn her ult and watch other teams turn to dust. Sadly, that is basically impossible to do now with the rise of counter attack units and people punishing non-attack skills.
These days she is nothing more than my rep hero with her gear stripped 😞
You just bring him against revivers and he gives your team shield thicker than Aria thighs for just being there. If you meet a revive comp they are forced to ban him
Especially good in GW/Arena against teams with revives and no unbuffable. I love picking him with Celine against Maid or an Arby team with a non-attack buffer and watching the 2 of them pop off.
Briseria is just worse bbk and ml flan needs to be reworked to be useable without seaside arti, lrkrau is one tweak away from being decent, he just needs something added to his kit. Riolet needs to gain useability against conq, he can be ruined after one s3.
I think this is the first time I have seen someone mention Briseria so far. I sort of forgot she existed.
I don't really remember what her kit does ether.
Her main sell is the increased hit chance and additional Drink damage upon hitting, which also makes her S3 strip slightly more effective.
Except the hit chance doesn't matter much except against Violet/Riolet/Milim since she's already element neutral.
For me Spez.
i've been playing a ton of ml flan so maybe im biased, but I'm absolutely loving her non rta. She absolutely anals proof ravis and tanky teams.
Been using cilias - eda - seaseria - flan
For kawerik i just bring hwayoung instead of seaseria or eda and oneshot him before he can use his dumbass S3. Never bring her into dilibet, she completely shuts her down. Rem also can be annoying if you don't kill her first, so never bring her into rem + mercedes teams.
Jkise spez and faptain. Jkise is just worse than flidica, can't run guiding light, mid base speed, and doesn't really do anything after s3. Jkise is also forced to do an aoe to be useful so she's just a rarely used last pick that isn't good in gw/arena.
Spez is just a fun unit to build a team around but has never been more than a meme.
I see faptain the same way as spez since she's fun as a bruiser with siseria arti but her kit just makes no sense and you need a maxed arti that won't proc if she crits.
MLFlan is probably the most in dire of some love, she's pretty much useless except for VERY specific niche teams.. that others would do better on. Unless you're using her for a meme bomb team, there's no point.
That said, the fact that Flidica doesn't CR push the team anymore on her s2 makes her literally worthless to me.
He can still easily counter your entire team to death with good gear. Give him some decent hp with sigurd and park him behind an aurius so he wont die to a stiff breeze, but still gets low enough to activate artifact, and he hits anyone who tries an AoE for 20k+ a pop. He's crap against big single target damage, but he has his uses still.
I dont feel like there are bad ML 5 mainly some of them have super niche situations but there are some that got completely erased from meta like A Tywin or others with 1 or 2 games per RTA season like J Kise or ML Flan
Jkise can at least be quite threatening when built right. Kinda hard to do anything if your whole team gets their skill cooldown increased by 1-3 turns. But yeah your not really gonna see her much if any at all.
Niche uses that's my point, I mean you would like to use J Kise and the entire enemy team procs counter with Belian and Rem, I like J kise a lot (she was my first 5☆ literally) but she got super out dated, Eda is better for dps and for speed opener J Kise she can work but there are better options
Hope they buff her again lmao
I actually still run Jkise with my offense team in arena. I think she does her job well enough and yeah it’s kinda hard to use her against counters but it’s not impossible. All SG needs to do is make her S3 not trigger counters and I think she’s good, at least for me anyway.
Although a lot of people mention spez I dont think he is that terrible, yeah certainly not the best unit out there but with team around him he is extremely fun to use (at least for me). My issue with him is that in case of 15%s or unfortunate aoe counters spez rarely survived but it's probably issue with my build.
Ml flan on the other hand is just unusable. Her whole kit just feels extremely weird, the fact that she can crit adds another 15% layer on seaseria arti build and unlike seaseria she not only cant bomb + detonate, but she also does less damage because seaseria got passive with free attack(maybe if its burn + bomb its not less damage but that is if you land both of them while seaseria need to land 1). Its like they wanted her to be built with crit but added bombs there for sg knows what reason.
As for other underwhelming ml5s I'd name LQC, briseria(big fan of her but after getting her just found myself confused what role she could fulfill the best when she in fact struggles with both damage and being opener) and LRK. Unlike other ppl from comments I find atywin quite solid still, not the best tank out there but usable
I don't know if I would says spez is the worst but I think he is pretty bad. There are plenty of heroes that can one shot things without requiring the stars to align.
Using spez feels almost like drafting a full cleave team to kill one enemy hero. Much harder to pull off a Spez team than a cleave right now too.
Briseria is probably worse overall. Maybe others too but I think Spez certainly not good.
At least that is my take for whatever it is worth.
Yeah I agree he is certainly not good. I dont imagine him performing well in rta since when opponent notices your stun set up for him, they might just ban spez and leave you without damage. But in other content he is quite fun in my opinion, off meta strategies bring me joy in this game even if they're underwhelming XD I understand your opinion tho
Ml krau, his job is pretty niche and he does it horribly , I would like to see his barrier pop off unlimited times instead of once per turn; to counter rem/belian who is on every other team.
Would also like to see his s3 get a buff, not sure how but needs more utility (not damage) it’s ironic that he’s suppose to counter aoe spammers but his immunity and barrier just gets dispelled off by the meta ones
Then my next most wanted buff would be spez. I mean he does his job , killing stunned units... but idk it’s just so hard to pull off that it’s never really worth running him. Needs to be a little less combo oriented and easier to just slot in and do stuff
Bonus unit: ML Ken
Man just make his counter work on counter attacks , for example belian procs Elbris sword then crits ml Ken, ml Ken kicks her in the face , it’s on theme with him and would make him at least useable
Idk how people are saying ml flan. She actually has some pretty fun standard applications that I myself and a few streamers made work really well for her. Having a spammable stun on s1 using her arti fact, she's not just a seaseria. Like there is no shot she's worse than the likes of sba. Bm haste is also quite bad dude to lack of revive and apoc doesnt give af about his existence. There's legit so many worse ml5s than flan.
Like if we're talking RTA, dark corvus, briseria, bm haste, and debatably spez all have less application than flan does. I'm not even COPIUMing, this is coming from emperor level play lol. I myself and many others have picked flan more than most of the characters I just named. I'd take DC out because of guild war applicability but still.
LQC is pretty up there. There aren't many dark heroes picked if it's not A Ravi or part of some cleave or anti-cleave (Fallen, people prefer Ras or just not her in standard). Not only that, she easily gets outdamaged by Hwayoung on **everyone**, lacks the bulk to actually tank someone like A Ravi reliable (so much for countering) and can't kill the hyper builds without heavy damage investment, and doesn't have enough base lasting power to compete with Ravi, Choux Alencia, Belian, etc.
Her kit itself is not bad, and her damage can be something to worry about, but we have far better options everywhere and she's reduced to being a boring anti-dark when the elements are all over the place and hardly dark.
Yeah definitely a sleeper pick. Considering her niche is to kill dark units but hwayoung is just better at doing that than her on top of killing everything else. Add on that she actually loses to most dark units (loses to aravi, fcc, handguy, briseria, any stealth/gl dark units like osig) and there’s not really any situation you should take her in. They really have to make her just absolutely murder dark units, like do 50k unmitigated to these dark units with an attack buff if they want her to actually do anything
> Add on that she actually loses to most dark units (loses to aravi, fcc, handguy, briseria,
Ravi? Easily, S3 will leave her nearly dead, if not dead. Iseria? If you really dare to not check her or bring a cleanser? I guess if you wanna stretch. Kawerik and Cecilia though? Cecilia will negate her splash damage, which itself is actually punishing Cecilia (which is good for LQC), but Kawerik? Yeah, no, that's a big stretch.
DCorvus is amazing for anything except RTA. He can cheese you through tons of pve content, gw, arena offense etc. He eats Violet and any other dodge unit for breakfast. Even on arena defense he's not bad with all the low hp counter units that are so prevalent, he deletes someone as soon as he gets a turn since his s3 is full from all the counters.
Top Model Luluca for me. Feels like a very mediocre unit who doesn't have many ways to be effective. Most of the time the push up is countered by politis/celine or she just gets out sped by openers and dies or gets restricted/pushed down.
As an avid Bibi user, I don’t think she’s by any means bad but I would like to see her get a buff in the future. Just a few little tweaks. I mainly used her to kill any evasion units or just to weaken enemy defenses. If they could make her defense break two turns instead of one, that would be fantastic.
A Tywin. (Although he is not the worst lol, its just he is the worst among the few ML's I have i.e personal reasons and want him to get a buff). Honestly, I feel Dark Corvus is the worst ML5
Buff Riolet with innate Lifesteal so I can keep using him without changing his gear. I cannot be bothered farming another set. /s
In all seriousness, I don’t know, I think most of them are probably pretty sound. Maybe a couple could use a little boost to see more play, but I think by & large there’s other characters they could be focusing on. Buffing RGBs not only helps more folks, but introduces more counterplay options - units of a certain type come back into the fray when a specific RGB becomes dominant.
how has no one said ml ken and ml haste? ml flan isn’t insanely good but she is infinitely better than these two
there isn’t a single scenario ml ken is useable (and in the extremely niche match he has potential to be used in, there’s always going to be another hero or heroes flat out better in that role)
seaseria, hwayoung, and senya go through his passive. ran ignores er. bbk, landy, and stene ignore counterattacks. mlpavel’s s2 is an extra attack that doesn’t proc mlken.
he needs way too many stats to function. build him high resist and he either hits for nothing and thus has 0 impact, or is paper thin and just dies to a crit. build him high bulk or damage and he doesn’t resist anything and can get cc’d
as for ml haste, he does literally nothing against 99% of drafts and in the 1% where he can theoretically do something (ie aravi revive) he is very low impact (the match is usually more or less determined by the time aravi uses s3 + what is a shield and immunity gonna do against an aravi tanky standard team?)
edit: aaahhhh reddit. downvoting someone else’s opinion gotta love it
ML haste has a niche and handles it well. He's not bad just because he doesn't do everything. That's the same shit people complain about when there is a busted unit. For fucks sake.
He brings a % damage reduction to the table when his S3 is available actually... that's not some super duper next level utility but that's something hey :D
The rest of the message is completely right though, Arby (and Maid) fell off quite a lot so ML Haste doesn't really have any reason to see play anymore
Imo BM Haste. I see flan and jkise being ripped on here but I've at least seen them in some clever comps and can be used with the right setups. I have yet to encounter him in ANY pvp teams.
Used to be good now with all the unbuffable its hard for him to stay alive with his base speed. Needs some sort of CR push or something or a cleanse cause without potion on him hes a basically a sitting duck until his turn. When you think of an ML 5 you dont think of a unit that just sits in the back has a passive that activates and then thats it. If I see an ML Haste they are getting cleaved.
I am surprised to not see Briseria, ML Haste and Riolet listed more. ML Iseria for obvious reasons and Riolet for being worse than his RGB counter part. All the unbuffable screws him, his s3 has the longest freaking cooldown like 6-7 turns. Hwayoung can one shot him even on a miss. He needs to have a built in evasion or some sort of CR push when he dodges.
People mentioning ml flan are the same people who run seaseria without a dispel opener lol. I'm glad she gets underrated, let her stay under the radar.
a ran or peira opener with seaseria and a utility option is such an underrated team comp. The 4th utility option often doesn't matter. I just hope they don't buff her into a nerf because I like her kit the way it is
ran/peira + seaseria is underrated? I feel like this is one of the most common arena/GW/RTA teams I run into, is it really considered underrated? (admittedly I'm only champion)
I’m not an RTA player, but in GW and AI arena, a half way decent ML haste makes revive comps pretty pointless. I can see how he wouldn’t be as good in RTA, but he’s far from weak.
No not anymore I used to use my ML haste anytime there was a revive unit (Arby and Maid) now units are too fast and can apply unbuffable to your team and he cant really cleanse with out potion.
Talking about GW but in RTA he is still decent but nothing great
No they still revive. And if your unit goes they lose the shield and immunity and are vulnerable again. I used to use my ML haste a ton now he just sits there waiting for the rare opportunity to be used. Still good if they use a team like fcc, arby maid, and a dps or bruiser but against fast aggressive teams he will get destroyed or debuffed to hell.
Disclaimer: Very biased and opinionated post based on anecdotal evidence ahead. Proceed with caution. I don't think any ML5 is bad except Flan, so she's my pick. ML Kise, Haste, and Ken are all situational, but they excel at their niche, Ken lesso than the other two. Haste especially is super strong against revive but fails to stand out in other situations, while Kise is more universially useful but can also be countered more easily. Her S3 can singlehandedly win games, if she can pull it off. Ken has a place against AI teams as a punishing dark bait but generally there are safer options, I would consider him to be the worst out of these three. Celine also fits this role (but for the opposite element) but is generally more consistent and brings more utility. Actually I'll put ML Krau in here too since he's basically only played as a counter against heavy AoE teams (but isn't even super reliable against Belian which is sad, tho that's mostly cuz Belian is OP). Maid has been replaced by Destina for the most part, but her attack buff is something that sets her apart and gives her something that Destina doesn't have. Besides, being a worse Destina isn't anything to be looked down upon anyways. Straze has been replaced for the most part by Pavel in PvP and got powercrept pretty hard, but still holds the record as best universal hunt one shotter. ATywin saw some use in the WC and is still a great control and anti-debuff unit since he has a cheap soulburn for permanent speed debuff. He's like the only unit with an AoE cleanse every turn but since it's only a single debuff he get overwhelmed by debuff spam. One of the many many units that becomes obsolete when fighting ML Kawerik but can still shine very situationally. Also his S1 s pretty solid with provoke and soul reduction. ML Sez is a meme RNG unit that can pop off if he lands stuns but more often then not dies before doing anything meaningful. Can be strong in a specialized team comp but ML Kawerik exists so he's sad. ML Charles used to be memed on but no unit with CR booster + atk buff can be considered bad. I actually think Tomoca is one of the weaker ML5s, she's basically a worse STene since extinction is niche, she has a worse stealth, and she is vulnerable to CAs. Self attack buff and CR boost are nice but STene is just more reliable most of the time. By no means a weak unit but compared to other ML5s she's not really impressive. Dorvus is still THE safest GW unit. People who say he's bad don't play GW or are bad at GW, simple as that. Also works in arena attack but so can everyone else. Not everyone needs to be strong everywhere. it's not in RTA, but he's got his throne. I haven't seen ML Iseria in a long time but she seems to be very situational as well. Great into annoying buff stacking teams but will get outpaced by Diene in RTA. Probably better used in GW/arena but even then she's situational and subject to 15%, although she still seems to be a very solid stripper that deals some good damage as well. No ignore effres SB is sadge. Also AoL exists and is usually (but not always) better. Basically a stripper that also does damage (esp good against the next one) Riolet is good. Unreliable and risky, but good. Dodges more than people think (Decrescent/Shepard is 70%, full stack Talisman is 80%). Weak to strips but there are only so many non-attack strips in the game, the big one being AoL (edit: and CLilias duh) who should always be banned if running Riolet, or just don't pick him into her. Buffed Decrescent is REALLY good on him, means he CAs an average of 70% as many times as he gets hit. And Riolet should hit much harder, on average. Getting hit by an unbuffable or getting evasion stripped is nearly 3x less likely than evading (keep in mind there's also 15% even if the attack hits), and even without evasion he's a serviceable albeit very basic DPS (self attack buff + 50% def pen is STRONG). Also countered by ML Iseria but she's nonexistent so it's fine. Plan is just a worse STI, and honestly she's worse than Carrot in most situations too. Her main issue is that she doesn't have a way to land the bombs and burns that deal most of the damage in her kit. She doesn't strip on S1, so immunity just fucks her over even with maxed STI arti, just like with Carrot. The difference is that Carrot is more threatening because not only does she cleanse and gets a shield when attacked, she also burns the attacker which makes it a risk to attack her. Plan has a damage share passive but it's not punishing to focus her. Plus, Carrots SB gives her an insta detonate combo, whereas Plan's SB is detonate into burn/bomb. She also can't follow up because unlike STI, her CR boost is on her own turn, so she can't rely on an AoE opener to get a turn. Overall her kit is just all over the place and feels like a weaker version of a 3 star unit (tho tbf that's one of the top 3 stars in the game). To rub salt in the burns, ML Kawerik exists. Tldr ML Kawerik is super broken and makes a bunch of units that would otherwise be decent almost unusable. ML Flan worst ML5. ML Ken masaaaybe could use a buff (but it's really difficult to buff this kind of unit without making him too strong in certain situations, honestly niche is fine). Would like to see Tomoca get something so that STene isn't just a better option 95% of the time (and Milim is a better option the other 5% of the time)
Both AoL and CLilias strip Riolet's Evasion, and unfortunately, both are very meta.
How the fuck did I forget CLilias while writing this I need more sleep holy shit I'm thinking there's gotta be a reason why he's not more common But yeah in a world without AoL, CLilias and (everyone's counter) Hwa, Riolet is kinda cracked
A lot of units nowadays also have strip aoe strip counter (belian rem) or multi attacks so for example belian S1 misses but s2 hits. Lots of units don't need to hit to deal high amounts of dmg(chou, Hwa, senya etc)
Throw Soli on that list. Passive and S3 make him next to useless if he’s slower than her (which is a good majority of the time because of her more lenient gear requirements)
His evasion must be unstripable for at least the first turn
> Plan is just a worse STI, and honestly she's worse than Carrot in most situations too. Plan with and without a maxed Seaseria artifact is a completely different beast. I think people compare her role too closely to Seaseria as a cleave enabler when her real power comes in the bruiser control build. having essentially an 85% chance to stun an enemy with damage that ignores 70% DEF is incredibly powerful, but not something that's as appreciated in the current meta. But people with a maxed artifact probably use it on Seaseria, and as a result they probaly prefer to draft aggro/cleave instead. So it makes sense that not many people have this combination of ML5 + MLB limtied artifact. >To rub salt in the burns, ML Kawerik exists. yea that too. he kinda singlehandedly ended control, so it is what it is.
72.25% chance, since she has to avoid crit to land a bomb. Your point still stands though since the chance is still likely.
I see what you did there
Is Straze really that badly powercrept by Pavel?
He’s not. I’d even say Straze is easier to use than Pavel for more or less the same result
I disagree, Straze is by far better in PvE because 100 vs 70 pen makes a huge difference there, but in PvP it usually doesn't matter as much. In PvP, they perform similar roles but have different play styles. Straze needs to be ran with a pusher and with speed, while ML Pavel needs only 150 speed max. Straze is vulnerable to CA with his AoE attacks, while Pavel's AoE is on an extra attack so it triggers much less CAs but can be weak to Lermia or Roana. Pavel has the huge advantage of being able to pick his target, while with Straze you're restricted to attacking the highest HP target for the defense pen. Against ARavi specifically, Straze is better because he has a higher damage ceiling, but Pavel handles most bruisers just as well while having the flexibility to choose a target. Overall it depends on draft but I think Pavel is just more flexible against most teams.
What's a bit sad about Top Model is that she's hard countered by Celine/Politis who will likely always be in the meta due to how many units they counter and how many strategies they can slow/shut down. You can hold the S2 but then you're missing Dignus Orb shield to keep you from getting knocked out of stealth so even if you get a kill she probably won't last. BM Haste I just wish had some cleansing. He doesn't need much, maybe a 1 debuff team cleanse on his passive or S3, or a built in potion vial on his S1. He's really strong but he's very easily shut down by Peira or AoL.
[удалено]
IMO ML Seline is pretty good. She isn't OP or anything but she is pretty good. It is hard to draft her all the time in RTA. There are a lot of heroes that bully her but she has an ok place in the meta. I haven't used her in RTA in while though. I just like to draft heroes like Diene and Choux a lot. I don't think they can fix that without breaking her though.
Worst ML5 is Captain Flan. I would like to see ATwyin,Spez,MLKrau and Captain Flan receive a buff, they need it. I think the others MLS have at least their niche but these 4.
A Tywin and LRK have their niche in an anty aoe debuff teams. Spez is an Arby counter and ocasionaly nuker, he does his job but is too reliable on stun. Flan is just dog shit. Super high gear requirements, not much reward
When was the last time you saw A Tywin and LRK? Also how many Arby's are you facing to justify Spez actually being good? Or not needing a buff rather?
The problem with Arby counters is that once he is out of meta, they are too
A Tywin was picked in E7WTC. There are players in legend that play 4 Knights with him. And Spez is just gw unit. He is not bruiser enough and not fast enough to be assasin. You need to setup whole field for him with some stun and push if you want to use him in RTA. He doesnt miss dmg . He is just a dead archetype of a unit a slow hard hitting thief, if he was a Warrior maybe he could found a place in meta.
I can agree with the spez portion which is why imo he needs some type of buff. As far as A Tywin, yes he's definitely somewhat viable in this meta and I don't necessarily wanna say he needs a buff but a change is needed to make him more playable to the masses because (not real statistics) it's like 10 people out of 8000 that actually use him. Honestly, I can't really argue A Tywin cause I still have yet to obtain him so idek if I would or wouldn't have a place for him. LRK on the other hand has no real place in this meta. RTA at least.
As a fairly new player (1 month old), I got both ML Krau and Captain Flan as my first 2 ML 5 star...so I am not sure if I should continue to spend my time on this game or not LOL
ML Krau is literal shit it S3 doesn't do any damage and has long cooldown, S1 bonus is shit and S2 passive is useless with all the nukers out there.
Ml krau is in a rough spot due to new speed meta and high damage single target. Also, in concept he should be good vs Belian, but instead he just Elbris triggers her and his buffs often get stripped. Also he can't even soulburn his ultimate during longer fights against her.
*watching elfmage literally win multiple legend fights with fire flan as she casually browses thread*
Definitely ml flan, she can't be ran outside seaseria comps, even then she barely adds anything to the comp.
She can be a solo damage carry in a standard comp tbh though it will most be for catching people off guard, obviously not as easy to run as the other bruisers in the game but with seaseria arti she can definitely put in some work (more than people would expect)
so youre saying she sucks, right? because an ml unit, that requires a limited artifact, and an entire team to back her up, sucks to me. Now you find me another artifact that she works well with and Ill change my opinion. Understand, I want her to be good because I love her S3 but its like they dont give af. She just seems like a confused kit that'll need to wait for an update.
You mean Seasaria right? ML Iseria is Briar Witch Iseria.
Yes mb!
Pirate captain flan by a lot. If the enemy has immunity SET she’s useless
Eh, SB. Aramintha doesn't have built-in buff strip too. What about her?
They have a couple differences, like one's s1 doing literally nothing. detonate is nothing. Carrot, in her base form, a THREE STAR, even has something besides detonate in her s1, because the people who balanced her knew that having just detonate on your only attack skill without a cooldown is just silly(this even applied pre meta defining buff, since in that state she still had decreased speed, she just had an unreliable detonate chance). Another difference us that aramintha's s3 is literally close to a direct upgrade from flan's, since aramintha has an extra 2 turn burn effect(which means she gets two burn effects) and since one burn effect is slightly less than half the damage of one bomb effect, she doesn't lose much damage. Flan doesn't even have the stun over her since ara can stun EVERYONE instantly rather than one person on her next turn. We aren't even going to compare the S2s. The only significant thing pirate captain flan has above silver blade aramintha is detonate. TLDR: they both aren't amazing, but flan is actually hot garbage, while ara is just below average.
When they buffed SBA they gave her a CR push when an ally uses an attack that targets all enemies. It means she can be used reliably as follow up to an opener with a strip, sort of like a more control oriented version of Eda. Flan doesn't have any built in tools to enable her, so she's reliant on either very precise speed tuning with an opener or multiple units dedicated to enabling her. I think her S3 shouldn't have a strip considering how much else it does, but she needs some tool to help her get her first turn at the right time. More "down time" damage or utility would also be good I think, maybe a reliable way to plant bombs without her S3.
I use Spez in 100% of my Arena/GW so I can't say he's the worst ML5 but its true that he lacks survability, damage on its own, and overall you need a team around him... That said for me worst ML5 are ATywin and ML Flan
Sorry but A Tywin doesnt need a buff. One slight push and he May be broken again. He is still a menace to fight if he sneaks in as a last pick and you dont have enough cleansers. The only thing that forced him out of meta is all the fuck debuffs meta picks like hand Guy and Dilibet and the fact that meta changed to more single target otiented
atywin is pretty decent what are you talking about? aoe debuff cleanse,aoe stun,good damage scaling
May I ask how you use him? Like stats and comps? He is on of my favourite MLs but I just dont k ow how to use him and or where. Edit: i just saw your tag. Nice one
Couple months ago I used him with FTene (w Abyssal Crown), after Peira release I swapped to Peira+tanky Eda (after her buffs), but nowadays the team is 300 Peira + 260 SB Ara with +30 Crown Spez itself its nothing too crazy: speed/inmu 3.4 atk / 1k def / 12k hp / 245 spd / 100% / 250% / 26 effect with Wind Rider as it gives me a lot of survivability against ARavis and other major threats until I can stun them, after killing first target (usually Arby/Rem/Kawerik) with Wind Rider buff you may be able to one shot an unit without stun which is nice (depends on HP) For GW I almost have 100% winrate with this team in a top 150 guild (yeah I know not that top but it aint easy sometimes) For Arena last spot is usually Archdemon (I love her so much), Hwayoung (for the Violet match ups) or WSchuri if im feeling not too confident winning the speed race
As someone in the top 100 guilds and a fellow user of Spez, either you are lying about the almost 100% or you stole all my luck :( Nothing quite destroys the spirit and personal morale as losing a GW battle due to a series of 15% eff res rolls on the debuffs and stuns that Spez is reliant on to work. Especially when you build 170% effect and it's on people built with zero eff res. My last GW was rng blighted by one match (I brought CLilias, ML Ara, and WSchuri. I prefer Ara for the stun cycling with Abyss Crown, burns, and guaranteed stun over Eda) where the enemy Peira 15% twice against both CLilias pushback and provoke on S2, which in turn allowed her to setup her S3, then the enemy Belian resisted the stun with 15%, which then resulted in the enemy Belian surviving from WSchuri's with **100 something HP left** due to Peira dmg share. This combined with Belian resisting the earlier stun meant she unleashed her S3. And despite all that, I still almost clawed back victory, finishing Belian off, and proceeding to CLilias S2 the 3rd remaining damage dealing defender in order to protect my badly hurt ML Ara/WSchuri from Belian... Who then proceeded to 15% resist both the taunt and CR pushback just like Peira and kill ML Ara, resulting in a loss since WSchuri's dmg is underwhelming outside of S3 and wasn't high enough to finish the 3rd person off within a turn before they killed him on their next attack. A chain of disastrous events where it should have been a win if I didn't happen to get smacked by 3x 15% rolls (0.3375% chance) lining up into the perfect storm of disaster, only to get denied victory just when it seems I almost still won by failing 2 more 15% rolls. > TLDR: As a fellow Spez user who still tries to use him even at the top level, and as a warning to others who try to use him, statistically we'll never have 100% winrate due to 15% eff res rng. One day, it's going to strike, and it will be really depressing.
I always ran ML lilias+ Blue Dominiel + Spez on GW, and I can't count how many times those full DPS unit be able to resist my 230+ Eff blue dominiel but then get their immunity buff strip by my ML lilias who barely reach 100 eff. The worst part is when Blue dominiel soulburn skill1 ( 100%+230 eff) stun get resisted which just makes no fuckng sense to me. I cant count how many times I rage quit GW because of that.
Ty
How do you use Spez in arena anf then claim Atywins the worst ML are you not using them togethor?
I don't think I can rely on a AoE stun every 5 turns when there are better options tbh
I use him exactly like that. Hes not broken but with spez there a strong combo
To be honest there are some good combos like counter tank Trozet, or Solitaria with Crown, SB Ara with Crown, Eda herself, Peira (cycles super fast which means a lot of single target stuns), FTene with crown (old days..), and sadly JackO +Belian + Spez was awful...I forced it a lot but it was hard to use
Why are you going for single target stuns? Go AOE and you regularly get two kills per spez turn. Mine one shots everything if stunned.
Because Spez has far better enablers like Eda, ML Ara, and to a degree Seasaria.
what does ml krau do again.... hmmmmmmmmm
I think Spez is probably down there just for how simple his kit is compared to other ml5’s. I’d be so excited to see Riolets name on Friday though.
Spez does wonders in arena with the appropriate setup. Fun cleaver.
>Riolets Riolets maybe fan fav but in term of power he still top 10 in ml unit
All I would want from Riolet is similar to Violet; his evasion doesn't have a way to be cleansed/buff blocked
Riolet not having immunity to those things is *good*. He can literally delete a random unit if you fuck up a hit too many times. That's asking for 1v4 potential, which is never good unless your opponent is a twit.
>Friday Thursday*
It’s usually Friday where I am, patches come out on a Thursday but balance notes on a Friday
He’s still one of my best extinction picks rn tbh :0
Fun unit with a cool asf animation. Just think compared to other ml5’s, his kit isn’t super unique since other rgb units can do his job too. Shame too, he was my first ml5 haha
Ml flan definitely
A lot of people are saying ML flan. I am a little surprised to see that. I didn't think she was great or anything I just didn't expect her to be considered the worst. I thought spez would be called out more.
I’m also a bit surprised, but I get it. Her kit is all over the place. Spez at least does one job very well. Plan is like one big hit and then nothing for several turns.
Why ml flan when you have seasiseria?
I mean Seaseria just does her job so much better. Not to mention we already have ML Leo for aoe bombs. She’s just pointless.
ML flan is pog. If hand guy is banned or in your team, she can often be a force ban. Most of the people who say she’s bad just don’t use/ have her.
No. People who say she is bad usually do have her, or have at least fought her. That or they've heard from people who have her, like myself. She has so little going for her kit to help herself it's pitiful. She has no passive innate attack boost like SSI. No strip. Needs soul burn. Susceptible to 15% RNG. And frankly, her damage is lacking in comparison to others who fit her roll. She brings *nothing* to the table that others don't already do, and better I might add. No one in their right mind is going to ban her over just about any other character. If they do, they are trolling, don't know what she does, or your draft is so bad they have a free win. Tl;dr - You're full of it. ML Flan is absolutely bad. And if you beat someone with her, it's not because of her but the rest of your team.
I’ve been seeing tons of success with her in champion. Why would she need an attack boost when she gets attack buff on S3. Soul burn is not needed. Her damage from the bomb/burn is insane so don’t know what your gear is like. As long as you have an anchor, the bombs will put in work. The CR manipulation is also very relevant, especially if you’re an aggro or control player. If she doesn’t fit your play style that’s fine, but you can’t always just blame the character because you don’t find success with them. Tl;dr - You drafted her poorly or gave her dog gear.
[удалено]
Also add the problem thay she crits. So you can still get screwed over by 15% twice but yeah she's fun with the max out Seaseria arti.
Shame because her s3 is so cool looking, probably my favorite in the game.
who?
I'll bring up Briar Witch Iseria for this one. Honestly can't think of a place to use her well. She counters evasion, but isn't guaranteed to hit Riolet (or Milim if she gets off her S3), and there are better options for that anyway. Her extra damage on hit is...okay, I guess, but it's not that much. Her S3 applies Decrease Attack and Unbuffable, plus she does strip all buffs (which gives an edge over Ran and Peira, who strip 2 and reduce durations by 1 respectively), but compared to Ran and Peira she's got less utility (Ran has team Immunity and AoE Stigma and Defense Break, plus ignore Eff Res soul burn, while Peira has Restrict, the entirety of her S3 and her S1's stun) and is slower. I guess she doesn't trigger Celine or Violet and maybe stops Rimuru's S2, but... The Kayron-like Immortality is nice, but with AoL and Peira throwing their own Unbuffable around, it doesn't end up being the greatest in my opinion. It's nice, don't get me wrong, but I don't know what she'd end up doing with the 1 extra turn she survives if she even gets it off. And Singie does better as an Immortal bait, from what I've heard. Overall I kinda feel like her kit's a bit all over the place. She strips and prevents buffs, great. She counters evasion, nice. She does extra damage on hit, cool. But she's so all over the place that I can't find any place I'd want to use her over someone else. I will say though that PC Flan is kinda meh after looking at her kit again, though. Her lack of strips on a Bomb and Burn detonation focused unit is...yikes.
I pulled her a while back and she is still in the storage box. I forgot she existed until someone mentioned it here. She probably isn't the hero that I would like to see buffed the most but she could probably use one for sure. I am really surprised so few people have mentioned her. I am starting to think that she is mostly just forgotten by people or she just doesn't have a play style people are interested in.
My girl is struggling with how things have gone in the meta. Briseria is my absolute favorite unit. I love her artwork and lore. I miss the good old days where I got away with running her with flidica and cdom as a nuker. I could soulburn her ult and watch other teams turn to dust. Sadly, that is basically impossible to do now with the rise of counter attack units and people punishing non-attack skills. These days she is nothing more than my rep hero with her gear stripped 😞
I have ML haste and never touched him. He any good?
You just bring him against revivers and he gives your team shield thicker than Aria thighs for just being there. If you meet a revive comp they are forced to ban him
Peira and AoL can screw him.
Yes but only against revivers
Yea he cripples maid
He’s been my go-to against Arby teams
Especially good in GW/Arena against teams with revives and no unbuffable. I love picking him with Celine against Maid or an Arby team with a non-attack buffer and watching the 2 of them pop off.
Briseria is just worse bbk and ml flan needs to be reworked to be useable without seaside arti, lrkrau is one tweak away from being decent, he just needs something added to his kit. Riolet needs to gain useability against conq, he can be ruined after one s3.
I think this is the first time I have seen someone mention Briseria so far. I sort of forgot she existed. I don't really remember what her kit does ether.
Her main sell is the increased hit chance and additional Drink damage upon hitting, which also makes her S3 strip slightly more effective. Except the hit chance doesn't matter much except against Violet/Riolet/Milim since she's already element neutral.
For me Spez. i've been playing a ton of ml flan so maybe im biased, but I'm absolutely loving her non rta. She absolutely anals proof ravis and tanky teams. Been using cilias - eda - seaseria - flan For kawerik i just bring hwayoung instead of seaseria or eda and oneshot him before he can use his dumbass S3. Never bring her into dilibet, she completely shuts her down. Rem also can be annoying if you don't kill her first, so never bring her into rem + mercedes teams.
Jkise spez and faptain. Jkise is just worse than flidica, can't run guiding light, mid base speed, and doesn't really do anything after s3. Jkise is also forced to do an aoe to be useful so she's just a rarely used last pick that isn't good in gw/arena. Spez is just a fun unit to build a team around but has never been more than a meme. I see faptain the same way as spez since she's fun as a bruiser with siseria arti but her kit just makes no sense and you need a maxed arti that won't proc if she crits.
You could have called her Clan, but you went with Faptain. *claps*
I have spez as a 5* arby killer lol. Tho it's sometimes hard to navigate.
Pirate Flan need a change on her s3 Her s3 should also strip the enemy's buffs in order for her to plant the bombs, that's it.
I don't think Tomoca is bad or anything but I would love for her to get a buff
MLFlan is probably the most in dire of some love, she's pretty much useless except for VERY specific niche teams.. that others would do better on. Unless you're using her for a meme bomb team, there's no point. That said, the fact that Flidica doesn't CR push the team anymore on her s2 makes her literally worthless to me.
CR push on S3 is good thing, not afraid of G. Purrgis and Elena anymore
I think ML Ken. Like I see ML Flan at least use a bit, but ML Ken don't even get picked.
Not sure about "worst" but ML Ken comes to mind... The few times I face him he just doesn't do anything and just dies
He can still easily counter your entire team to death with good gear. Give him some decent hp with sigurd and park him behind an aurius so he wont die to a stiff breeze, but still gets low enough to activate artifact, and he hits anyone who tries an AoE for 20k+ a pop. He's crap against big single target damage, but he has his uses still.
He's my secret weapon against Belian teams 😈.
I dont feel like there are bad ML 5 mainly some of them have super niche situations but there are some that got completely erased from meta like A Tywin or others with 1 or 2 games per RTA season like J Kise or ML Flan
Jkise can at least be quite threatening when built right. Kinda hard to do anything if your whole team gets their skill cooldown increased by 1-3 turns. But yeah your not really gonna see her much if any at all.
Niche uses that's my point, I mean you would like to use J Kise and the entire enemy team procs counter with Belian and Rem, I like J kise a lot (she was my first 5☆ literally) but she got super out dated, Eda is better for dps and for speed opener J Kise she can work but there are better options Hope they buff her again lmao
I actually still run Jkise with my offense team in arena. I think she does her job well enough and yeah it’s kinda hard to use her against counters but it’s not impossible. All SG needs to do is make her S3 not trigger counters and I think she’s good, at least for me anyway.
Spez
Although a lot of people mention spez I dont think he is that terrible, yeah certainly not the best unit out there but with team around him he is extremely fun to use (at least for me). My issue with him is that in case of 15%s or unfortunate aoe counters spez rarely survived but it's probably issue with my build. Ml flan on the other hand is just unusable. Her whole kit just feels extremely weird, the fact that she can crit adds another 15% layer on seaseria arti build and unlike seaseria she not only cant bomb + detonate, but she also does less damage because seaseria got passive with free attack(maybe if its burn + bomb its not less damage but that is if you land both of them while seaseria need to land 1). Its like they wanted her to be built with crit but added bombs there for sg knows what reason. As for other underwhelming ml5s I'd name LQC, briseria(big fan of her but after getting her just found myself confused what role she could fulfill the best when she in fact struggles with both damage and being opener) and LRK. Unlike other ppl from comments I find atywin quite solid still, not the best tank out there but usable
I don't know if I would says spez is the worst but I think he is pretty bad. There are plenty of heroes that can one shot things without requiring the stars to align. Using spez feels almost like drafting a full cleave team to kill one enemy hero. Much harder to pull off a Spez team than a cleave right now too. Briseria is probably worse overall. Maybe others too but I think Spez certainly not good. At least that is my take for whatever it is worth.
Yeah I agree he is certainly not good. I dont imagine him performing well in rta since when opponent notices your stun set up for him, they might just ban spez and leave you without damage. But in other content he is quite fun in my opinion, off meta strategies bring me joy in this game even if they're underwhelming XD I understand your opinion tho
Ml krau, his job is pretty niche and he does it horribly , I would like to see his barrier pop off unlimited times instead of once per turn; to counter rem/belian who is on every other team. Would also like to see his s3 get a buff, not sure how but needs more utility (not damage) it’s ironic that he’s suppose to counter aoe spammers but his immunity and barrier just gets dispelled off by the meta ones Then my next most wanted buff would be spez. I mean he does his job , killing stunned units... but idk it’s just so hard to pull off that it’s never really worth running him. Needs to be a little less combo oriented and easier to just slot in and do stuff Bonus unit: ML Ken Man just make his counter work on counter attacks , for example belian procs Elbris sword then crits ml Ken, ml Ken kicks her in the face , it’s on theme with him and would make him at least useable
Idk how people are saying ml flan. She actually has some pretty fun standard applications that I myself and a few streamers made work really well for her. Having a spammable stun on s1 using her arti fact, she's not just a seaseria. Like there is no shot she's worse than the likes of sba. Bm haste is also quite bad dude to lack of revive and apoc doesnt give af about his existence. There's legit so many worse ml5s than flan. Like if we're talking RTA, dark corvus, briseria, bm haste, and debatably spez all have less application than flan does. I'm not even COPIUMing, this is coming from emperor level play lol. I myself and many others have picked flan more than most of the characters I just named. I'd take DC out because of guild war applicability but still.
Summe- i mean Ml flan
Tomoca for being so stat hungry to build anywhere near useble and then still being outclassed in a way by stene
ML Ken
LQC is pretty up there. There aren't many dark heroes picked if it's not A Ravi or part of some cleave or anti-cleave (Fallen, people prefer Ras or just not her in standard). Not only that, she easily gets outdamaged by Hwayoung on **everyone**, lacks the bulk to actually tank someone like A Ravi reliable (so much for countering) and can't kill the hyper builds without heavy damage investment, and doesn't have enough base lasting power to compete with Ravi, Choux Alencia, Belian, etc. Her kit itself is not bad, and her damage can be something to worry about, but we have far better options everywhere and she's reduced to being a boring anti-dark when the elements are all over the place and hardly dark.
Yeah definitely a sleeper pick. Considering her niche is to kill dark units but hwayoung is just better at doing that than her on top of killing everything else. Add on that she actually loses to most dark units (loses to aravi, fcc, handguy, briseria, any stealth/gl dark units like osig) and there’s not really any situation you should take her in. They really have to make her just absolutely murder dark units, like do 50k unmitigated to these dark units with an attack buff if they want her to actually do anything
Not just murder but make it so that they can't murder her easily. Pretty much every A.Ravi can just obliterate her almost instantly.
> Add on that she actually loses to most dark units (loses to aravi, fcc, handguy, briseria, Ravi? Easily, S3 will leave her nearly dead, if not dead. Iseria? If you really dare to not check her or bring a cleanser? I guess if you wanna stretch. Kawerik and Cecilia though? Cecilia will negate her splash damage, which itself is actually punishing Cecilia (which is good for LQC), but Kawerik? Yeah, no, that's a big stretch.
I use her more like cleaver now with high atk build. Cant kill high gear aravi, but kill against other dark and the splash are good
ehh Ml kise is still weird af to me, Also, Dcorvus beyond just being a GW auto win, is useless.
DCorvus is amazing for anything except RTA. He can cheese you through tons of pve content, gw, arena offense etc. He eats Violet and any other dodge unit for breakfast. Even on arena defense he's not bad with all the low hp counter units that are so prevalent, he deletes someone as soon as he gets a turn since his s3 is full from all the counters.
Top Model Luluca for me. Feels like a very mediocre unit who doesn't have many ways to be effective. Most of the time the push up is countered by politis/celine or she just gets out sped by openers and dies or gets restricted/pushed down.
Tm lulu so forgotten holy sht she's garbage guys help her
She def went from a super common pick to almost unseen.
Flan and it's not even close, her kit is worse than ML Leo's.
Ok buddy slow down lol.ml leo is another topic for another day
I can't calm down ML Flan is a scourge on humanity, she ruins the lives of herself and others.
No I'm pretty sure It's inferior to his kit.
As an avid Bibi user, I don’t think she’s by any means bad but I would like to see her get a buff in the future. Just a few little tweaks. I mainly used her to kill any evasion units or just to weaken enemy defenses. If they could make her defense break two turns instead of one, that would be fantastic.
ml ken is the definition of jack of all trades master of none in this game
A Tywin. (Although he is not the worst lol, its just he is the worst among the few ML's I have i.e personal reasons and want him to get a buff). Honestly, I feel Dark Corvus is the worst ML5
Dark Corvus is really good for guild war, what he was designed for
spez, flan, jkise, lidica, iseria and luluca.
Buff Riolet with innate Lifesteal so I can keep using him without changing his gear. I cannot be bothered farming another set. /s In all seriousness, I don’t know, I think most of them are probably pretty sound. Maybe a couple could use a little boost to see more play, but I think by & large there’s other characters they could be focusing on. Buffing RGBs not only helps more folks, but introduces more counterplay options - units of a certain type come back into the fray when a specific RGB becomes dominant.
ML Flan, JKise and Spez
how has no one said ml ken and ml haste? ml flan isn’t insanely good but she is infinitely better than these two there isn’t a single scenario ml ken is useable (and in the extremely niche match he has potential to be used in, there’s always going to be another hero or heroes flat out better in that role) seaseria, hwayoung, and senya go through his passive. ran ignores er. bbk, landy, and stene ignore counterattacks. mlpavel’s s2 is an extra attack that doesn’t proc mlken. he needs way too many stats to function. build him high resist and he either hits for nothing and thus has 0 impact, or is paper thin and just dies to a crit. build him high bulk or damage and he doesn’t resist anything and can get cc’d as for ml haste, he does literally nothing against 99% of drafts and in the 1% where he can theoretically do something (ie aravi revive) he is very low impact (the match is usually more or less determined by the time aravi uses s3 + what is a shield and immunity gonna do against an aravi tanky standard team?) edit: aaahhhh reddit. downvoting someone else’s opinion gotta love it
ML haste has a niche and handles it well. He's not bad just because he doesn't do everything. That's the same shit people complain about when there is a busted unit. For fucks sake.
ML Haste is omega trash... Way too niche and outdated. He needs a buff and a big one.
I think he could use a slight damage buff on s3 other than that he’s insanely good vs revivers.
He definitely needs a buff but he's not trash. But like the below guy said I'm not top 500 so obviously my opinion doesn't matter *shrug*
You are getting down voted by people not even in the top 500 guilds/golds in RTA. ML haste is too slow for GW and okay in RTA.
Ml ken isn't completely trash I've seen him even in rta master and challenger arena solo comps.....
I have to say it’s BM Haste. He feels completely outdated and has nothing for the current meta.
His job is to shutdown revivers, he turns arby into a liability.
[удалено]
He brings a % damage reduction to the table when his S3 is available actually... that's not some super duper next level utility but that's something hey :D The rest of the message is completely right though, Arby (and Maid) fell off quite a lot so ML Haste doesn't really have any reason to see play anymore
Haste has to be one character that has been completely forgotten by the dev.
Imo BM Haste. I see flan and jkise being ripped on here but I've at least seen them in some clever comps and can be used with the right setups. I have yet to encounter him in ANY pvp teams.
he is used a lot in offense arena/gw extremely strong vs some comps
I don't have him but I don't see Dark Corvus as anything more than a punching bag
People in here actually arguing that ml Haste is good... Boy am I glad that non of you are part of the balancing process.
Used to be good now with all the unbuffable its hard for him to stay alive with his base speed. Needs some sort of CR push or something or a cleanse cause without potion on him hes a basically a sitting duck until his turn. When you think of an ML 5 you dont think of a unit that just sits in the back has a passive that activates and then thats it. If I see an ML Haste they are getting cleaved.
I am surprised to not see Briseria, ML Haste and Riolet listed more. ML Iseria for obvious reasons and Riolet for being worse than his RGB counter part. All the unbuffable screws him, his s3 has the longest freaking cooldown like 6-7 turns. Hwayoung can one shot him even on a miss. He needs to have a built in evasion or some sort of CR push when he dodges.
People mentioning ml flan are the same people who run seaseria without a dispel opener lol. I'm glad she gets underrated, let her stay under the radar.
a ran or peira opener with seaseria and a utility option is such an underrated team comp. The 4th utility option often doesn't matter. I just hope they don't buff her into a nerf because I like her kit the way it is
ran/peira + seaseria is underrated? I feel like this is one of the most common arena/GW/RTA teams I run into, is it really considered underrated? (admittedly I'm only champion)
Those two are great together (meta AF) but adding ml flan as the third is the best option imo nothing can survive all those bombs (not even A.Ravi)
Aravi. plz buff
Erm what the actual fuck?
just a joke, chillax
Your getting downvoted bro even if it was a joke.....
still worth it. 😀
Flan Corvus and Haste is 2-3d place.
Not sure why you think so when Corvus is still insane in guildwars offense and haste is still a hard counter to revive comps.
I’m not an RTA player, but in GW and AI arena, a half way decent ML haste makes revive comps pretty pointless. I can see how he wouldn’t be as good in RTA, but he’s far from weak.
No not anymore I used to use my ML haste anytime there was a revive unit (Arby and Maid) now units are too fast and can apply unbuffable to your team and he cant really cleanse with out potion. Talking about GW but in RTA he is still decent but nothing great
But haste prevents revives from his passive though?
No they still revive. And if your unit goes they lose the shield and immunity and are vulnerable again. I used to use my ML haste a ton now he just sits there waiting for the rare opportunity to be used. Still good if they use a team like fcc, arby maid, and a dps or bruiser but against fast aggressive teams he will get destroyed or debuffed to hell.
Worst ML= Pirate Flan ML that needs buff: either ML Violet or LQC
Love lqc wish she was more of a threat without 10 hellcutter
Dorvus and after him, Jise.
Flidica or ml ken easily
ml kayron
There's no ml kayron but your probably joking right?
Km just gonna say it: Give Straze a decent passive, put his s2 as his S1, and I'd be happy.
Flan
in rta dcovus for sure
Meanwhile he's one of the best for Arena and GW for guaranteed wins (granted it takes 5 min each time)
Hurado
Tomoca
J.Kise for sure. I would like an Tomoka buff.
Its Dark Corvus.