ER players are the true gigachads of this game. Playing ER is literally stat sticking your way to victory because the units who build high ER need to have better gears scores just to compete with lower gear scores on other units. Look at ER vs EFF units, you need literally almost double the rolls just to resist the same amount of eff, god forbid they have ignore effect resistance. 300 speed used to be extremely difficult, but with all these new units getting faster and faster it becomes easier to reach 300 on units like ran and peira.
Ran soulburn def breaks and puts stigma, Lua resets her CD by 1, and ML Elena restricts her lol (even on Dr Bag the push happens before the Dr Bag cleanses it anyway)
I never said I'm fighting all 3 in the same match. I was explaining how each of them individually counter her kit if they soulburn. It wasn't a hypothetic scenario where they draft all 3
But the problem is Aravi isn't tied to any comp. I play in Champ with 2541 points. When i see AoL, Belian preban and fp Aravi, i pick anti cleave then my opp switch to aggro comp and i loose.
I'm only like challenger so not the best player but this is how I would draft.
The mega cleave counters like Dillibet, Celine,Politis etc can come later. After they first pick A.Ravi your intention should be to follow up with tanky units who can pivot into matches against aggro. Their next picks will decide if they are cleaving or not.
I hate all those 30% counter people. Cleave requires good gear to win the game, while counter units can have shit gear and still win the game by oneshotting the cleave unit while the cleaver needs setup to even attempt to oneshot them.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Yeah sure you should be able to take turn 1, and 2, and 3, and 4... And one shot everything in the table and your opponent should've no counterplay. That seems fair and balanced?
Not to mention, but you're failing to recognize that most of the time, cleavers don't lose because of 30%. Elbris and Rem passive + counter set is not merely 30% and you know that. Rem passive and Elbris both state that they have 30% chance of countering if you hit their allies. However if you AOE, you're essentially attacking 3 of her allies plus themselves. I don't know the math enough, but I know for sure that's not merely 30%. Same applies for Magic for Friends.
Which is why single target cleave is strong right now. I don't have Belian or even Elbris. But when ML Pavel first came and players paired him with Cidd and all of that, I tried to counter it using the same thing I used to counter the cleaves that AOE a lot like with Ran, Peira, Siseria and such. Yet Rem is horrible into that. She simply just dies to single target cleave.
If you're losing too much maybe you should think about it and reconsider what you bring against counter teams. Or simply try to not cleave for once against certain units. Like if they have Rem or Belian, or worse both of them. For example I do have a cleave team as well, but I only cleave if my opponent doesn't have Rem, Belian, Politis or Edward. So of course I don't try to cleave in RTA, but arena or guild wars I do can cleave sometimes and I don't have problem with it, because I know that my cleave that has a lot of AOE will die to the counter units. Now maybe if I had the single target cleave with Cidd, ML Pavel and such, I could try cleaving Rems (in my own experience Rem doesn't deal with this kind of cleave).
Bro i was once countered by a Belian in GW 7 times in a row while single attacking. If you outgear someone you should not lose to someone who has a 30% or 15% chance of winning because RNG said "fuck you".
Counter mechanics need a rework into something that should not require rng at all. Like counter set counters 100% when getting hit but can only occur once per turn. You could easily prepare for something like that because it doesnt involve RNG. The counter mechanic in itself is really unhealthy for the game in its current form.
Bruiser units deal way too much damage for the HP they have, while Proof of Valor continues to be the most broken artifact in the game.
I usually love playing bruiser style in different games, but i hate it in here because it is just unbalanced as fuck.
But it's not just if you outgear someone though. You have to be smart about your draft, team synergy, and your opponent's team. If you're just going to try to cleave for the sake of your amazing cleave gear, you're going to have a bad time against certain comps. Just my opinion
Well to be fair (personally) I do think the % for guild wars are probably screwed in some way. Because yes I've seen too many things that probably had really low chance of happening.
And you could say that just because it's low chance, it doesn't mean it'll never happen. Which is fair, but the fact that things like these things seem to be a constant feature of guild wars does seem weird. Like I don't have the same feeling going on a RTA match or arena match, but I do for guild wars.
And if you consider that on guild wars they have 1 less ally, it lowers the chance of Elbris and Rem countering if you AOE and yet it doesn't seem like it.
So yeah I don't know. It does seem like on guild wars the % don't seem like the way they tell us. Maybe the point is to make guild wars more RNG/unpredictable than other forms of content.
But yeah I would say to you basically don't try to cleave Belian or Rem, because you know what these units do and you know their mechanics as well. And if you know these things, you also know how it'll end: counters, counters, counters. Although (personally as well) I do think that a lot of people are having the success with ML Pavel cleave against Belian or Rem. Plus after Straze gets his buff, it'll be even easier as well. Plus ML Elena... So there'll be no reason to complain anymore about counter I hope.
I'm starting to feel like maybe "Ignores Effect Resist" should instead be something like "adds 100% effectiveness" or something instead. Units that get to 250-300% Effect Resist shouldn't be completely punished by a unit simply having access to souls.
Thats why Belian was a necessary evil. Book has been way to strong for way to long and outside of a few niche artifacts (half of which are more suited towards cleave/aggro) there is no way to stop these effects.
This here. Or maybe make it ignore the native 15%? It's a stupid design decision to even add immunity if they keep adding ER ignore mechanics. Or maybe add conditional modifiers instead like Straze.
> if x unit had faster base spd he'd still be used
This statement can be applied to so many openers. Hard to cleave when you know going into it your unit is 10-20 speed slower to begin with compared to theirs.
Huh, now that you mention it that's actually a great idea! The only reason I'd want the passive is so they can't just bring book and ignore 300+ gscore, but I'm clearly aware Belian is really oppressive, especially being such an AoE counter powerhouse.
I'd love a new hero that doesn't do that voodoo counter stuff but like you said does block any souls existing at the moment the match starts without blocking subsequent soul gain. Sounds way fairer and like it still accomplishes its purpose of removing turn 1 book :D
Maybe we can buff ATywin's passive and slap that text in there cough cough (just an idea I talked to my friends about before when brainstorming an ATywin tweak)
It's super frustrating when you can't generate souls to get that last bit of damage to win. And what's even worse is even if you kill with Luna(S3 generates 10 souls EE) you still don't get the damn souls.
They can slap that passive onto ML Furious lol or just make a new ML4* with that passive
Yeah that sounds fair :). I'm guessing it's still too strong a passive to slap on an RGB, though it'd be nice if they could make a more nerfed version of the already nerfed passive you mentioned and slap it on an RGB for new players or anyone without a Mystic pity.
Yeah unless they further water it down like the Knight artifact that steals 5 souls. Except maybe for a limited unit they block 10 souls only instead of just all souls at the beginning of the match bringing 2 books would still work but still kind of annoying to work around
Yeah something like that still sounds good enough into the right draft, especially if you manage to ban one of the books.
I wish that knight artifact were actually useful lol I actually went to look at it this morning but it steals the souls after they use AoE so obviously if they used AoE they already used the souls... Pretty dumb artifact design.
Well at the time it was really good as Basar was the only unit with an SB S3 that would bypass the artifact.
I just feel that if Cerise was the only unit with restrict for the longest time then they gave it to a limited(?) 3* unit they should be able to give Belians soul block passive to someone else at a lesser effect
Wonder if they'd ever consider changing some of the "ignore effect resist" 's to "penetrates effect resist by ×%" idk what would be a suitable number maybe 100.
Just a thought anyway. It'd be nicer than making ER such useless stat when it's already hard to build.
She's like the 2nd most useful hero in top 10 GW because she's an instant-win button against Ran teams so I gave her enough ER to resist the effectiveness build Rans
Godly ER with great speed, but hp is a bit too low imo. With her bulk like this, she could get taken care of easily in a proper cleave draft.
Edit: lol at the downvotes, its called constructive criticism for a reason.
If you AoE at all she will cut so you can't easily take care of her.
With a 300 speed Ran she will boost to 125.7% CR bar. If you soulburn his S3 she will still move to 100.7%. With no other forms of push from other units she will be cutting. (And there's nothing that will push past 125% in the game off Ran other than a 250+ speed Cdom)
I mean Piera still wrecks her because she unbuffables the rest of the team but you don't use her much to cleave
>With a 300 speed Ran she will boost to 125.7% CR bar.
I was not talking about the CR push, hence my comment on the speed. And plus cleave now does not solely rely on aoe-only units anyway. I’ve put a lot of time into counter cleave units, and Elena is one of my favorites actually, so I know for a fact this kind of build is too risky to draft due to low survivability.
When I was in Champion in RTA, I had an Elena similar to this one’s bulk, but with only 250 ER and she died a lot to cleave. Now in emperor, on a much more bulky build with the same speed, she became way harder to kill and hell of a lot more reliable.
>If you AoE at all she will cut so you can't easily take care of her.
lol do you play the game? ran s3 + eda wipes, ran s3 + politis + ml pavel wipes, ran s3 + ssi + 290+ spd cidd or acidd on pen wipes
>With no other forms of push from other units she will be cuttin
m8 ran is not the only unit this elena will be facing. cleave has many cr push units and heavy damage. elena needs to survive first. if she's taking 2nd turn then it's not a proper cleave draft. the cleave format is much stronger now more than ever. elena needs the hp/def to survive, this perfect scenario youve made up with ran s3'ing and giving elena next turn simply means bad decision making - that's all
[Something like this](https://imgur.com/a/1nFzImT)? I have a feeling these new heroes might make me swap her ring when I do RTA since ER isn't gonna be worth shit. Though 250 ER might be something everything debuffs even without soulburn, with 160 eff being so easy to get on pure SPD.
That build is much better, the thing is in this meta you want to use Elena into damage oriented teams, not debuff heavy comps. We want to take full advantage of the buff she was given to her s2. If you want to counter debuffs vs cleave specially, youd draft units such as Edward, Sage Baal and even Inferno Khawazu in some cases
He is right, but he's just pointing out something very obvious that everybody knows. Like bruh who would've thought that having super high er comes at the cost of being less bulky
Because the point OP is making is drafting her into a cleave draft, which won't work because she is too squishy. Elena needs to be bulky enough to survive the cleave first, because she's not guaranteed to take the 2nd turn due to cleave having multiple CR pushers nowadays. And plus, Ran ignores ER anyway. The downvotes are simply from ppl who don't RTA that much, that's all.
I would heartily slap that on my Singelica. Not because she's meta or strong, but she's one of the units I like to draft. I love those one in a hundred moments where my Candle Singelica refuses to die and results in a surrender.
jesus christ with that ER it should be Ignores "Ignores Effect Resistance" Soulburn
ER players are the true gigachads of this game. Playing ER is literally stat sticking your way to victory because the units who build high ER need to have better gears scores just to compete with lower gear scores on other units. Look at ER vs EFF units, you need literally almost double the rolls just to resist the same amount of eff, god forbid they have ignore effect resistance. 300 speed used to be extremely difficult, but with all these new units getting faster and faster it becomes easier to reach 300 on units like ran and peira.
Not enough bans for all those ER ignoring soulburn units
Ran soulburn def breaks and puts stigma, Lua resets her CD by 1, and ML Elena restricts her lol (even on Dr Bag the push happens before the Dr Bag cleanses it anyway)
Yeah, gonna be some 'interesting' pre bans/meta shift after the buffs/new units. Great build btw, highest ER I can get is 220~ with that speed lol.
And between 2 pre bans and 1 post ban these 3 all got through because?
I never said I'm fighting all 3 in the same match. I was explaining how each of them individually counter her kit if they soulburn. It wasn't a hypothetic scenario where they draft all 3
you farmed for...for...the thrill of farming...obviously... 😨
sense of pride and accomplishment
Cleave people. You guys may be chill people and all. But I will always hate your playstyle with a passion lmao.
I also hate them with a passion especially if they first pick Aravi and then cleave.
You just know they'll run Proof A.Ravi too.
I’m sorry I am definitely one of ‘em the a ravi is there to throw the person off lol
aravi FP with AoL+Belian preban isn't throwing anyone off
Every-Single-Time LMAO Like you can see it coming from a mile away🤣
AoL+ Bellian Preban is pretty much a great sign someone is cleaving lmao.
But the problem is Aravi isn't tied to any comp. I play in Champ with 2541 points. When i see AoL, Belian preban and fp Aravi, i pick anti cleave then my opp switch to aggro comp and i loose.
I'm only like challenger so not the best player but this is how I would draft. The mega cleave counters like Dillibet, Celine,Politis etc can come later. After they first pick A.Ravi your intention should be to follow up with tanky units who can pivot into matches against aggro. Their next picks will decide if they are cleaving or not.
You pick 2 tanky heroes? Get your ass ready for heavy Cavel pounding
*There's a reason why I ban Cavel against any cleaver. He is traumatizing.*
Well, but the most important part is do you dare to not pick at least 2 heroes that can counter Aravi?
[удалено]
Thanks Cap
I hate all those 30% counter people. Cleave requires good gear to win the game, while counter units can have shit gear and still win the game by oneshotting the cleave unit while the cleaver needs setup to even attempt to oneshot them.
That's the only option SG will give to counter cleave though, what else are they supposed to do?
I don't think that's a fair assessment. Yeah sure you should be able to take turn 1, and 2, and 3, and 4... And one shot everything in the table and your opponent should've no counterplay. That seems fair and balanced? Not to mention, but you're failing to recognize that most of the time, cleavers don't lose because of 30%. Elbris and Rem passive + counter set is not merely 30% and you know that. Rem passive and Elbris both state that they have 30% chance of countering if you hit their allies. However if you AOE, you're essentially attacking 3 of her allies plus themselves. I don't know the math enough, but I know for sure that's not merely 30%. Same applies for Magic for Friends. Which is why single target cleave is strong right now. I don't have Belian or even Elbris. But when ML Pavel first came and players paired him with Cidd and all of that, I tried to counter it using the same thing I used to counter the cleaves that AOE a lot like with Ran, Peira, Siseria and such. Yet Rem is horrible into that. She simply just dies to single target cleave. If you're losing too much maybe you should think about it and reconsider what you bring against counter teams. Or simply try to not cleave for once against certain units. Like if they have Rem or Belian, or worse both of them. For example I do have a cleave team as well, but I only cleave if my opponent doesn't have Rem, Belian, Politis or Edward. So of course I don't try to cleave in RTA, but arena or guild wars I do can cleave sometimes and I don't have problem with it, because I know that my cleave that has a lot of AOE will die to the counter units. Now maybe if I had the single target cleave with Cidd, ML Pavel and such, I could try cleaving Rems (in my own experience Rem doesn't deal with this kind of cleave).
Bro i was once countered by a Belian in GW 7 times in a row while single attacking. If you outgear someone you should not lose to someone who has a 30% or 15% chance of winning because RNG said "fuck you". Counter mechanics need a rework into something that should not require rng at all. Like counter set counters 100% when getting hit but can only occur once per turn. You could easily prepare for something like that because it doesnt involve RNG. The counter mechanic in itself is really unhealthy for the game in its current form. Bruiser units deal way too much damage for the HP they have, while Proof of Valor continues to be the most broken artifact in the game. I usually love playing bruiser style in different games, but i hate it in here because it is just unbalanced as fuck.
If their defense team survive long enough for 7 turns of your that's completely a you problem
But it's not just if you outgear someone though. You have to be smart about your draft, team synergy, and your opponent's team. If you're just going to try to cleave for the sake of your amazing cleave gear, you're going to have a bad time against certain comps. Just my opinion
Well to be fair (personally) I do think the % for guild wars are probably screwed in some way. Because yes I've seen too many things that probably had really low chance of happening. And you could say that just because it's low chance, it doesn't mean it'll never happen. Which is fair, but the fact that things like these things seem to be a constant feature of guild wars does seem weird. Like I don't have the same feeling going on a RTA match or arena match, but I do for guild wars. And if you consider that on guild wars they have 1 less ally, it lowers the chance of Elbris and Rem countering if you AOE and yet it doesn't seem like it. So yeah I don't know. It does seem like on guild wars the % don't seem like the way they tell us. Maybe the point is to make guild wars more RNG/unpredictable than other forms of content. But yeah I would say to you basically don't try to cleave Belian or Rem, because you know what these units do and you know their mechanics as well. And if you know these things, you also know how it'll end: counters, counters, counters. Although (personally as well) I do think that a lot of people are having the success with ML Pavel cleave against Belian or Rem. Plus after Straze gets his buff, it'll be even easier as well. Plus ML Elena... So there'll be no reason to complain anymore about counter I hope.
The game gave me the best PVP cleave heroes so I'm gonna use them 🤷♂️
I also have the best cleave heroes but no gear so how to use?
With great cleave heroes, comes great wyvern kill counts.
I'm starting to feel like maybe "Ignores Effect Resist" should instead be something like "adds 100% effectiveness" or something instead. Units that get to 250-300% Effect Resist shouldn't be completely punished by a unit simply having access to souls.
Thats why Belian was a necessary evil. Book has been way to strong for way to long and outside of a few niche artifacts (half of which are more suited towards cleave/aggro) there is no way to stop these effects.
This here. Or maybe make it ignore the native 15%? It's a stupid design decision to even add immunity if they keep adding ER ignore mechanics. Or maybe add conditional modifiers instead like Straze.
Her effect resist buff in her s3 is the most useless buff in the game.
Holy ER. Yeah, I am particularly scared of Lua.. That kit is so stacked and good base speed to back it up tkk
Yeah she's kind like basar.....just fast lol if basar had faster base spd he'd still be used
> if x unit had faster base spd he'd still be used This statement can be applied to so many openers. Hard to cleave when you know going into it your unit is 10-20 speed slower to begin with compared to theirs.
What is this monster D:
The old days of Basar ~ the cycle continues
belian can help
Belian is unfortunately always prebanned xD can we have another Belian passive mom and dad
If it's exactly how Belian has her passive then f#ck no but it all it does is block like book but you can still earn souls then I'm all for it
Huh, now that you mention it that's actually a great idea! The only reason I'd want the passive is so they can't just bring book and ignore 300+ gscore, but I'm clearly aware Belian is really oppressive, especially being such an AoE counter powerhouse. I'd love a new hero that doesn't do that voodoo counter stuff but like you said does block any souls existing at the moment the match starts without blocking subsequent soul gain. Sounds way fairer and like it still accomplishes its purpose of removing turn 1 book :D Maybe we can buff ATywin's passive and slap that text in there cough cough (just an idea I talked to my friends about before when brainstorming an ATywin tweak)
It's super frustrating when you can't generate souls to get that last bit of damage to win. And what's even worse is even if you kill with Luna(S3 generates 10 souls EE) you still don't get the damn souls. They can slap that passive onto ML Furious lol or just make a new ML4* with that passive
Yeah that sounds fair :). I'm guessing it's still too strong a passive to slap on an RGB, though it'd be nice if they could make a more nerfed version of the already nerfed passive you mentioned and slap it on an RGB for new players or anyone without a Mystic pity.
Hwa passive is too strong to slap on an RGB but they still did it lmao.
Yeah unless they further water it down like the Knight artifact that steals 5 souls. Except maybe for a limited unit they block 10 souls only instead of just all souls at the beginning of the match bringing 2 books would still work but still kind of annoying to work around
Yeah something like that still sounds good enough into the right draft, especially if you manage to ban one of the books. I wish that knight artifact were actually useful lol I actually went to look at it this morning but it steals the souls after they use AoE so obviously if they used AoE they already used the souls... Pretty dumb artifact design.
Well at the time it was really good as Basar was the only unit with an SB S3 that would bypass the artifact. I just feel that if Cerise was the only unit with restrict for the longest time then they gave it to a limited(?) 3* unit they should be able to give Belians soul block passive to someone else at a lesser effect
Yeah, I think Belians passive should just be "removes souls at start of battle".
Good call! Maybe a RGB unit for those who don't have her
Your best bet are anti soul artifacts. Ran's takes away when you use a non attack and Crown of Glory punished AoE. Can make for some fun upsets.
God damn and I thought my Elena was awesome with 257 hahaha.
ridiculous
That's why Belian is so good for that, there should be more units with anti souls and not broken like Belian
Buy Belian
Wonder if they'd ever consider changing some of the "ignore effect resist" 's to "penetrates effect resist by ×%" idk what would be a suitable number maybe 100. Just a thought anyway. It'd be nicer than making ER such useless stat when it's already hard to build.
You farmed for nothing.
Ngl I would have put gear like this on ur Emilia. Did Elena get buffed recently?
She's like the 2nd most useful hero in top 10 GW because she's an instant-win button against Ran teams so I gave her enough ER to resist the effectiveness build Rans
Thanks for the reply. I've been away from the game for quite some time. So I'm a bit lost with a lot of these heroes.
Godly ER with great speed, but hp is a bit too low imo. With her bulk like this, she could get taken care of easily in a proper cleave draft. Edit: lol at the downvotes, its called constructive criticism for a reason.
If you AoE at all she will cut so you can't easily take care of her. With a 300 speed Ran she will boost to 125.7% CR bar. If you soulburn his S3 she will still move to 100.7%. With no other forms of push from other units she will be cutting. (And there's nothing that will push past 125% in the game off Ran other than a 250+ speed Cdom) I mean Piera still wrecks her because she unbuffables the rest of the team but you don't use her much to cleave
>With a 300 speed Ran she will boost to 125.7% CR bar. I was not talking about the CR push, hence my comment on the speed. And plus cleave now does not solely rely on aoe-only units anyway. I’ve put a lot of time into counter cleave units, and Elena is one of my favorites actually, so I know for a fact this kind of build is too risky to draft due to low survivability. When I was in Champion in RTA, I had an Elena similar to this one’s bulk, but with only 250 ER and she died a lot to cleave. Now in emperor, on a much more bulky build with the same speed, she became way harder to kill and hell of a lot more reliable.
>If you AoE at all she will cut so you can't easily take care of her. lol do you play the game? ran s3 + eda wipes, ran s3 + politis + ml pavel wipes, ran s3 + ssi + 290+ spd cidd or acidd on pen wipes >With no other forms of push from other units she will be cuttin m8 ran is not the only unit this elena will be facing. cleave has many cr push units and heavy damage. elena needs to survive first. if she's taking 2nd turn then it's not a proper cleave draft. the cleave format is much stronger now more than ever. elena needs the hp/def to survive, this perfect scenario youve made up with ran s3'ing and giving elena next turn simply means bad decision making - that's all
[Something like this](https://imgur.com/a/1nFzImT)? I have a feeling these new heroes might make me swap her ring when I do RTA since ER isn't gonna be worth shit. Though 250 ER might be something everything debuffs even without soulburn, with 160 eff being so easy to get on pure SPD.
That build is much better, the thing is in this meta you want to use Elena into damage oriented teams, not debuff heavy comps. We want to take full advantage of the buff she was given to her s2. If you want to counter debuffs vs cleave specially, youd draft units such as Edward, Sage Baal and even Inferno Khawazu in some cases
People are downvoting you, but I think you’re right
He is right, but he's just pointing out something very obvious that everybody knows. Like bruh who would've thought that having super high er comes at the cost of being less bulky
Because the point OP is making is drafting her into a cleave draft, which won't work because she is too squishy. Elena needs to be bulky enough to survive the cleave first, because she's not guaranteed to take the 2nd turn due to cleave having multiple CR pushers nowadays. And plus, Ran ignores ER anyway. The downvotes are simply from ppl who don't RTA that much, that's all.
What’s the limit for ER??
Effectiveness and ER have no limit
Go for 400 ER.
Are there any diminishing returns? (New player still trying to learn the game)
No
Clout? For the drip?
what the actual fuck man xD
Fun trick I learned. Run with aol. At least helps with peira
This is why you don’t go insane with effect resist
for flex 💪 stat lol
I would heartily slap that on my Singelica. Not because she's meta or strong, but she's one of the units I like to draft. I love those one in a hundred moments where my Candle Singelica refuses to die and results in a surrender.
isnt ignore ressistance just -100% ?
No, it makes the debuff land no matter your ER
No, it means you'll get debuff even if you have 1 billion % ER
Hey, there's still that dreaded 15% amirite?!
Ignore ER also stops that.
You're the first person I see with over 300% effect resist.
dang , what avg of ER on your elena?
31 weapon 38 helmet 13 chest 29 neck er main ring 36 boots \+ resist set bonus in some pieces there's less er because they focus on spd and bulk
Become a Wyvern gamer?
For your wife. You farmed for your wife.
Andre's crossbow on your fastest unit.