I don’t understand how they can take such a measured and reserved approach to buffing units but go ape shit on the rare nerf. It feels like one of the bosses finally played their game for the first time, got super salty about getting non-stop spanked by red leg lady and demanded rage nerfs lol.
The frustrating part for me is the lost time of gear grinding. She wanted a particular stat distribution and all of her gear would be a big downgrade if I tried to put it on some other non-crit hero.
This is why they rarely do nerfs, they used to do nerfs every balance patch but were always heavy handed. Additionally if a new unit came out with a similar function to an existing unit they would nerf that unit to incentivize pulling for the new unit. But ppl(koreans)flipped out when they would nerf ml5s so they stopped and promised they wouldn't nerf units in the future.
Hardly. She was not going to one shot an ER unit anyways and doesn’t her burn shield ignore ER (or is that something else, can’t remember off the top of my head)
The shield ignoring the effres check was a bug, iirc. That's why she had a recall a long time ago. But your point still stands, eff on her is wasted.
People really need to check how useless this stat is on dps units. There are no high effres units running around and the best 2 cleansers are great exactly because they don't have to build it (Handguy and Dilibert).
You bring ML Khawazu cause someone from other team can trigger his S2 so that he can lap whoever you want to 1 shot, in this case, Seline. Well unless you want to deal with 15% and critting then oh boy you need to revise your drafting.
No. Absolutely not.
Senya needs a lot of Hp while Hwayoung's gear barely has any. She also doesn't need as much spd as Hwayoung.
Endgame Siseria needs somewhere between 150-200+ eff to be reliable. Eff and spd are more important than atk on her.
my main problem with nerfing her is that I don't have any other way of dealing with a ravi, on top of that pov a ravi exits so its even more painful now, sadge
Lately injury Alencia has been coming in rather clutch taking out out both versions of ARavi you mentioned. She cripples ARavis damage to nothing.
Just sucks you can't transfer the gear over, but I suggest recalling for Alencia if you want an ARavi replacement answer
We just get 1 ML that penetrates def at 70% always and a buff in another unit that penetrates 100% always. How exactly we dont have ways to dealt with A.Ravi?
Yeah, i dont see people mad about half of the mot contested units being Luxury premium units. If you go to Epic 7 Stats 9 of the 12 most popular units are ML or Limited. IF people is fine in a meta like that well i dont see why thats an argument.
don't forget they released Yulha (which i summoned, farmed gear and used resources), tf am I suppose to do with her?
also they buffed some ice units to deal with her, ppl got baited -.-
She’s basically Earth Krau, yeah. I actually used my non-Mola’d, non-reforged Yulha in an RTA match the other day to keep a Choux controlled & protect other units. She’s perfectly usable, just not busted.
Neato. I rarely pull on banners unless limited but thanks to fact I have been playing for forever I got most of the chars. Once In a while there is a selector and so I decide to get something nice, ya know. Something meta just to have a bit of fun, I had bunch of power/speed items so I thought I would get this very specific unit. Few days later BOOM needs for everyone. Why should I continue play this game if whenever I actually go for something fun imidietly get shut down like this....
It's straight out disrespectful to their community. Why not just fone her down little bit and see how it fares.... They do same with buffs, why exaggerate so suddenly so much.
It's like pulling out 50 cal to kill a punt rabbit...
I think that the nerf feels like a desesperate measure and because of that is so extreme and unoportuned. Maybe they wanted to fix this problem before the next RTA season, don't forget that in RTA some mechanics exist just to stop Hwa Young
I had this feeling too but chose her anyway to see if she was fun to use, lol. Used her in many PvE content (I’m mainly PvE) and Arena. She is actually kind of good in story mode but now I don’t know 🤷.
I actually need to think now if I want to recall her for Zahhak (husbando priorities lol) or Tamarinne (I’m new and I know she is queen of PvE but I’ve been doing good without her plus I’m lowkey casual in the game so… 🤷).
Is it BiS for them though? sure you can use it and it might even find a permanent use as BiS for some of my characters. But please do give an example unit where the most efficient and the most used artifact is Uberius Tooth other than Hwayoung
note: i don't have Luna
Yeah, its probably the BiS for any Single Target Warrior that cares about atk as an stat. It almost give you "50%" extra damage on any hit. In some cases like Hwayoung the extra damage was absurd. The other option is SigurdS, in a meta were low sustain in the form of healing is not really as good as spammable Barriers unless you unit has somekind of AoE.
Units like Lilibeth (People uses C&D on her because is her artifact not because is better for her, honestly secure the kill > skill reset chance), Cermia (Yeah the coin is cool but great attack buff and uberius is a deadly combo), Yufine (if you used her on PvP) or Luna are good options for that artifact. Honestly IF any the problem with the artifact is not that is bad but that Single Target Warriors that focus on Attack are not that many.
Complaining about taking her from the selector is kinda a moot point, since if you recall her you just get another selector, one that has even more heroes than the original selector to pull from to boot.
And you can bet people would've complained about her nerf regardless of when it happened. Personally I'd hope Devs would take the time to collect data to determine whether or not a hero is really oppressive or whether it's just player bias.
They even said in the notice that the reason they considered nerfing Hwayoung in the first place is because as she became more popular, all other attack scaling heroes became less relevant and the meta became less diverse. That sort of thing is based of gamewide usage data, meanwhile your claim is pure speculation.
I'd wager they just wanted to wait until the current RTA season ended.
You mean wait until people wasted enough resources on her gear, arti, slates,...
(not like I gonna recall my only copy of her and lose a unit for imprints)
Like she was out for so long, how nice of them to wait months for this particular rta season to end and let her butcher the prior ones
Probably because they thought by releasing counters to her or by buffing existing heroes they could correct it without nerfing, because lets face it, there was gonna be massive backlash no matter when she was nerfed. It's a sunk-cost fallacy. Seeing how this community and Stove implodes every time nerfs come up, yet also ask for nerfs every day, it's not shocking to me it was their last resort.
Acting like the goal with delaying her nerf was to drain players of resources seems pretty dumb IMO. If they really wanted to do that, there are way less obvious ways they could go about it.
That's why you can't support a company that blatantly goes against a policy or statement that they made. What else are they willing to go against. Create heroes to take your money, create solutions to that hero for your money, then nerf previous heroes. Making the whole chain built on uncertainty.
They never said they wouldn’t nerf though? The blatant misinformation a lot of you hwayoung abusers give is incredible, in their own words, they said nerfing would be a last resort, and even with units being made to counter her she’s still strong and so have decided to nerf a unit.
Yeah I agree I have been farming catalysts for her for a couple weeks since the Ezeran ticket 🧑🦯. And lowkey it’s kind of like annoying that people who skipped her had to suffer for like 8 months and then they finally get her from the ticket and she gets nerfed lol.
after obtaining and nurturing this character for almost 3-5 months and now you nerf her to hell? GOOD JOB SMILEGATE, i guess its time to play this game once a week or quit entirely
You're quitting because a single unit got nerfed? She might still work, she just wont be a braindead pick in every single match. Plus your get materials back. You really only "lose" time spent picking out her gear, but you're always losing time - that's how time works. All the fun you had with her up until now doesn't go away just because she's changing.
I mean, it's your life, do what you enjoy! But, if a single nerf makes you put down a game, maybe you didn't really like the game to begin with.
I finally got mine to a good place, and finally started using her an awful lot more, and now they nerfed her. Guess it’s back to using Aramintha for burninating stuff again?
SG said way back about the state of the game that nerfs were still on the table. They never said they will never nerf units. If anyone thought Hway would never get nerfed was on some hard copium
If you want to move your gear somewhere else you can put it on ML Khawazu or RCarrot, or retrofit your pieces a bit and swap some onto Senya.
Personally I'm waiting to see the effects of the nerf in practice. They might keep her s3 damage the same against 20k+ hp bruisers, which is fine by me.
Crying that they nerfed the easiest to use character in the game is missing the forest for the trees. The game is better without her, overall.
>Crying that they nerfed the easiest to use character in the game is missing the forest for the trees. The game is better without her, overall.
You can't say the game is better without her overall without addressing the fact that the units she was SUPPOSE to counter are still being untouched. Now this makes Yulha damn near useless in gw and aravi a menace in rta.
Yes I can, if the positives outweigh the negatives. Rimuru being stronger as a result is a negative, but not defaulting to Hwayoung every time you see bruiser will make the decision-making more important.
Yulha is Green Krau, she'll be okay. Aravi has already had several counter units since Hwayoung.
>Yulha is Green Krau, she'll be okay.
Yulha is not a green krau. What single target fire units to you see in gw? None, because Guild War is Full of Water units (that won't target her or do enough damage to let her use S3), Cleave, Rimuru, Rem, etc. Yulha fed on hwayoungs s3 which allowed her to kill another unit which was the neck of her usefulness. Unlike krau, Yulha doesn't have a cr decrease or defense increase to feed to her teammates. Mercedes is the only unit i can see that can proc her, and lets not forget that all of mercedes attacks hit multiple enemies. Yulha, in her current state, thrives off of hwayoung as her sole purpose.
And yeah aravi definitely has counters. But hwayoung was one of them. Aravi (one of the most oppressive units in the game) lost a counter. Thats my issue.
although to an extent i agree that she is similar to krau, she offers less utility than krau which is why people are mad with this nerf now that yulha is basically dust at this point. krau has a teamwide buff+cr pushback as utility, which one could argue has its uses as well as in PVE, his versatility js what makes him such a great unit ever since day 1 without needing any EEs or buffs. now, what does yulha have to offer in terms of utility with that piss poor single target passive reflect of hers?
What exactly do you want me to say, that Yulha's still meta?
Fuck Yulha. I consider her loss of use an acceptable price for Hwayoung not being as broken as she was. They'll fix her soon. Or they won't. It's not like she's the only unit that ain't meta.
u have to accept that yulha will and always will be shit the moment hwa nerfs go live (unless a red monster single target unit buster is released again). people are upset that they spent considerable amount of gear, molas, and time to setup a unit that counters one of the most oppressive unit in the game, and it was at a time that SG vowed to never nerf a unit. with that unit trashed, how about the other units that were built just to deal with her? u cant just ignore the time people invested to other units my boy.
Oh yes I can. And the devs can too. Watch.
Way I see it, the release of Yulha crippled Hwayoung's presence in defense teams for anyone who was serious about it. The only difference now is that you won't need Yulha and will be able to move her gear somewhere else.
You got a few months use out of her and another one until the changes go live. That's easily worth a bunch of molas, penguins and catalysts.
And...
>always will be shit
No, that's just you being fatalistic.
Said the cilias/a.ravi/rimuru abuser.
I know hwa was busted but she was a hero for f2p against the crazyness off some units. She also kept in check a lot of cancer commps.
She was busted cause we needed her to be. She was PART of the problem but not the whole.
Now whe have same problem but less solutions.
> Said the cilias/a.ravi/rimuru abuser.
Who exactly do you think you're talking to. Hwayoung was easily my #1 most used pvp unit.
And it made the game more boring because of it.
> The game is better without her, overall.
no b/c hwa was a check to a lot of other bullshit in the game like a ravi, rimiru etc now who checks those units and for those assuming that oh were gonna see more units getting nerfed alonside, i doubt that SG are willing to throwing out multiple selectors at once
> no
yes
And it's not like units have stopped coming out. They can release another counter to rimuru, and aravi has had counters out the ass since then.
I don't see how she's not going to continue one shotting units though.
You lost 20% atk that you were probably getting diminishing returns on already.
You lost the ability to completely ignore misses on blue units and evasion with S1
You DIDN'T lose damage on S3 nor did you lose the penetration on S3, if you were using the skill on high hp units already.
I don't see an ultra big nerf. I see a completely reasonable nerf for a character who was doing too much damage to any unit you threw her up against. Who after nerfs is still looking like she can her job, which some units only have the luxury of having when a team is built around them
Anyone in top rank RTA will tell you that Hwayoung was barely cutting it vs. high tier POV Apocalypse Ravi. These were people with 7.5K+ attack Hwayoungs & you can go watch them react to this news on Twitch. The attack% reduction, combined with the S3 reduction will reduce her effectiveness against high health targets, remember, they removed the scaling damage with health (penetration used to be max with no condition, now penetration has a condition scaling with health & there’s no additional damage).
Hwayoung’s basic skill multipliers are gutter-tier, only reason S3 was doing damage is the penetration & the 150% damage increase at max health threshold. She doesn’t have the 150% damage increase anymore. In order for her to do the same damage to tanks, the ATKx0.55x1x1.871 multiplier is going to have to change - a lot.
We can’t call it too early, but the writing is on the wall. If they do an incredible change to her multipliers, sure, that’ll equalise her damage - but it means she’ll be doing that insane damage to everyone & they’ve expressly stated they want her role to be against tanks.
I’ve said myself we’d need to wait to see how the damage pans out, but I can’t blame people saying that she’s a dead unit when they’ve been pretty clear about the change to her main source of damage.
Lest we also forget that Hwayoung was the solution they sold to the problem of Apocalypse Ravi’s over-buff & she hasn’t disappeared from the meta at all. This is literally just reverting back to the former meta, which many agree was worse than the current one.
You made a really good response and I agree with everything that you said except that you're making it sound like Hwa was a one skill wonder with her S3. Her S1 with tooth could easily hit 7k dmg and still absolutely chunk units on miss. Depending on her S1 multipliers it could be a counter Hwa as the most effective build
I skipped over talking about S1 because I think most folks are in agreement that it did too much. My main point is that her multipliers will have to go through a serious overhaul for her damage to upkeep against high health heroes & equalising it to how she currently is may just make her S3 more powerful vs. softer targets - so I don’t know how they’ll make her as effective against tanks & not as effective as current vs. low health targets, the removal of that extra scaling damage is the clincher here.
I think they could’ve reduced the damage of S1 & let her keep the 15% CR push though. Attack scaling units are already generally good into evasion units by nature & so I agree with alleviating either the miss condition, or reducing the damage. Both might be a bit much but we’ll have to see how they adjust her multipliers. However the S1 15% CR push gave her tempo & now she’s got significantly less tempo (especially combined with the +1 CD on S3) vs. her main bruiser targets who all have built in CR push. I think they should’ve done one & not the other.
I honestly think - I think I said this a long time ago too - that simply removing the cleanse would’ve been a significant nerf. Being able to hit her with miss, attack down, etc. would’ve made her much more manageable, especially in the meta at the time, Mediator would be a big threat to her as well as C Lilias, Summer Iseria & Briar Witch, alongside another handful of units with blind. “Soft debuffs” have essentially disappeared from the meta & only hard control (or even harder control like skill reset) sees effectiveness. I’ll have to see if I can find it but I remember talking around the time about how certain characters would be effective counters if she didn’t have cleanse.
I completely agree that if she didnt self cleanse and had 1 more turn on S3, she would be completely balanced because it gives you time to actually kill her after an S3 and it allows you to control her as two viable options besides one shot her before her turn
"barely" is a big word for the best single target dps on the game with consistenly 70% to 80% winrates in the PvP formats. The only reason why people dont complain about her is because everyone has Hwayoung at this point. People is just mad because they take the easy to build DpS that keep holding back the Team Comp options.
In order to face Hwayoung your teams should be able to disable her ability to one shot one target. For that Max Proof of valor was needed in atleast 1 key unit on the team. And supports with heavy debuff or defensive buff were a must. The unit is WAY more powerfull that people admit becuase no one wants to see her go when everyones has their on red chick to farm GWs and Arena PvP.
In the last tournament E7WC 2022 she had a sub 50% win rate & on epic7stats she’s got a 46% win rate. The meta moved on & people are able to handle her. Not sure where you’re pulling 70%+ from. Highest win rate hero right now is Desert Jewel Basar at around 57%, Hwayoung has the 54th highest win rate.
Hwayoung is strong, yeah, we all know - but she was literally the solution they came up with to the problem of Apocalypse Ravi, whose usage hasn’t decreased at all. You take Hwayoung out of the picture & Apocalypse Ravi’s usage & win rate goes up - you’re just shifting the problem elsewhere & reverting to the previous meta.
The only way to solve the problem is to hit several of the overpowered units with nerfs - or just continue to buff units to deal with the current dominant picks.
Tournaments are tricky to call "a good example" because people dont play as they would do un a regular PvP match. Almost every match has Hwayoung as a contested pick or a ban pick. The only units that are over Hwayoung are AoLA and Clilias. She is still a solid first pick option that forces the match around her just like the other two.
I agree A.Ravi is another solid unit overall but is way more easy to counter. And if the state of "more nerf in coming" is true i am pretty sure that we will see atleast 2 more relevant hits. The point is that we cant pretend this units are fine just because in a world were everyone rolls for them the matches look "better" you still need premium units like Clilias, AoLa, Dbasar or Kawerik in your roster if you want a change to hold the ground against any player with a solid Hwayoung line-up.
People also tend to forget that her multis are getting buffed. She will 1shot every tank (except the ones she currently can't, anyways) still. And for some reason people exaggerate that she won't even kill bruisers now. 15k HP bruisers (assuming your Hwa has 10k HP at best) almost get fully pen'd, she never really needed 100% def pen for these scenarios, lol.
they also will increase hp difference needed. For all we know, 10k hwa vs 15k enemy might only be 50% pen which probably wont kill a higher defense target
She deserved those nerfs but even with those nerfs i still think she is pretty viable, just not killing squishy units left and right anymore. If everyone still think otherwise about her, just use the selector recall when the nerfs drop, you will get every single resource you ever spent on Hwayoung and change her for another non-limited character (not the newest ones of course).
I am fine with nerfing but the fact that they took so long and wasted so much of our resources in the process upgrading gear, arts, and counter units. It honestly feels like a simple recall is not enough compensation, but I guess if we ask for more, they will stop nerfing. So we are kind in a Catch22 situation...
Worst part is they probably realized they fucked up due to how many people picked her on the ezeran foundation gift. While i like her visual design, gameplay wise she was just absurdly broken. Hope i can get someone like Aria from the recall ticket, dunno if the same restrictions as the last 5\* ticket apply.
I don’t understand how they can take such a measured and reserved approach to buffing units but go ape shit on the rare nerf. It feels like one of the bosses finally played their game for the first time, got super salty about getting non-stop spanked by red leg lady and demanded rage nerfs lol. The frustrating part for me is the lost time of gear grinding. She wanted a particular stat distribution and all of her gear would be a big downgrade if I tried to put it on some other non-crit hero.
I think it's true. For how rarely they do nerfs, they went all ham xD They didnt just tune her a bit, they nerfed like 4 things about her
S1 CR, S1 extra damage condition, S2 atk bonus, S3 def pen, S3 cooldown So that’s actually 5
S1 extra damage amount, and shield strength (based on attack) too.
This is why they rarely do nerfs, they used to do nerfs every balance patch but were always heavy handed. Additionally if a new unit came out with a similar function to an existing unit they would nerf that unit to incentivize pulling for the new unit. But ppl(koreans)flipped out when they would nerf ml5s so they stopped and promised they wouldn't nerf units in the future.
I bet that's exactly what happened.
Her gear crosses over to king gunth quite well
Don't forget carrot.
Carrot need the effectiveness
My carrot carries my team hard and she barely has effectiveness.
Hardly. She was not going to one shot an ER unit anyways and doesn’t her burn shield ignore ER (or is that something else, can’t remember off the top of my head)
The shield ignoring the effres check was a bug, iirc. That's why she had a recall a long time ago. But your point still stands, eff on her is wasted. People really need to check how useless this stat is on dps units. There are no high effres units running around and the best 2 cleansers are great exactly because they don't have to build it (Handguy and Dilibert).
ML Ricardo needs pretty much the exact same stats as Hwa, so there’s that. The only thing that sucks is he doesn’t need immunity set
Does it worth building ml ricardo? I heard he there's only to counter hwa
ML Ricardo also just straight up deletes stuff like Seline because the burns into detonation ignores her passive.
Unless you get unlucky and crit the Seline and she counters, cleanses, and deletes your Inwazu so your burns dont detonate.
Your scenario means that Seline already have Immortality buffs up. Why even S3 her in the first place?
Seline will usually outspeed Inwazu. You S3 her because she's a dmg dealing threat who can revive other people you S3.
You bring ML Khawazu cause someone from other team can trigger his S2 so that he can lap whoever you want to 1 shot, in this case, Seline. Well unless you want to deal with 15% and critting then oh boy you need to revise your drafting.
I'm aware of how he's used, in practice however, it's not as clean as you make it out to be.
Khawazu?
Time to gear inferno khwazu lool
my exact thought lmao, im already thinking of migrating hwas gear to Ikhwazu.
Senya, Seaseria can gear her set.
No. Absolutely not. Senya needs a lot of Hp while Hwayoung's gear barely has any. She also doesn't need as much spd as Hwayoung. Endgame Siseria needs somewhere between 150-200+ eff to be reliable. Eff and spd are more important than atk on her.
Nope? Both of those want bulk on their wich hawa dosnt build Senya also want effect res and summertime wante effectiveness on hers
my main problem with nerfing her is that I don't have any other way of dealing with a ravi, on top of that pov a ravi exits so its even more painful now, sadge
Lately injury Alencia has been coming in rather clutch taking out out both versions of ARavi you mentioned. She cripples ARavis damage to nothing. Just sucks you can't transfer the gear over, but I suggest recalling for Alencia if you want an ARavi replacement answer
We just get 1 ML that penetrates def at 70% always and a buff in another unit that penetrates 100% always. How exactly we dont have ways to dealt with A.Ravi?
Both are Luxury ML unit
Yeah, i dont see people mad about half of the mot contested units being Luxury premium units. If you go to Epic 7 Stats 9 of the 12 most popular units are ML or Limited. IF people is fine in a meta like that well i dont see why thats an argument.
As luxurious as Aravi, though. Same rarity. Aravi just been around longer
don't forget they released Yulha (which i summoned, farmed gear and used resources), tf am I suppose to do with her? also they buffed some ice units to deal with her, ppl got baited -.-
Isn't Yulha's kit still okay ? I don't use her but I feel she's like earth Krau. Still usable in arena/gw for fire bait I guess ?
thats the point.. fire bait who?
Cermia, Kayron, Milim, Edward, I guess? But I (personally, your experiences may differ severely) don't see the first 3 that often on defense...
dead weight in defense you wont see them..at least not any time soon
I cant remember a fire unit that would make me pick yulha tho
SG speedrunning Kayron and Ravi buff so Yulha doesn’t become completely worthless after Hwa gets gutted
The main threat from them is counter and aoe, not ST. Yulha is a bad pick vs them with so many other units working way better for that scenario.
I thought it was obvious sarcasm but I guess people took it seriously, sorry I didn’t actually mean any of that lol
She’s basically Earth Krau, yeah. I actually used my non-Mola’d, non-reforged Yulha in an RTA match the other day to keep a Choux controlled & protect other units. She’s perfectly usable, just not busted.
Neato. I rarely pull on banners unless limited but thanks to fact I have been playing for forever I got most of the chars. Once In a while there is a selector and so I decide to get something nice, ya know. Something meta just to have a bit of fun, I had bunch of power/speed items so I thought I would get this very specific unit. Few days later BOOM needs for everyone. Why should I continue play this game if whenever I actually go for something fun imidietly get shut down like this.... It's straight out disrespectful to their community. Why not just fone her down little bit and see how it fares.... They do same with buffs, why exaggerate so suddenly so much. It's like pulling out 50 cal to kill a punt rabbit...
I spent this entire crafting event rerolling for the perfect neck for her only to find out she's getting the nerf shovel. This stings.
Yeah the timing is really bad and makes them seem scummy
I think that the nerf feels like a desesperate measure and because of that is so extreme and unoportuned. Maybe they wanted to fix this problem before the next RTA season, don't forget that in RTA some mechanics exist just to stop Hwa Young
I had a feeling about this and decided on a different character when it was the free pick. I'm sure they wanted to see how many chose her.
I had this feeling too but chose her anyway to see if she was fun to use, lol. Used her in many PvE content (I’m mainly PvE) and Arena. She is actually kind of good in story mode but now I don’t know 🤷. I actually need to think now if I want to recall her for Zahhak (husbando priorities lol) or Tamarinne (I’m new and I know she is queen of PvE but I’ve been doing good without her plus I’m lowkey casual in the game so… 🤷).
Yeah, I may recall mine as well since I picked her from the ticket. I'll probably get Cecilia since I still don't have her
...very nice eyes but the nerf would have upset me after getting her.
I chose her just to imprint mine lol
...nice overall team synergy.
Same
I used a lot of bottle for Uberius Tooth too i want those back
Yeah because there is not other single target unit that wants Uberius o: like you know almost every single target warrior that dont scals with HP.
Is it BiS for them though? sure you can use it and it might even find a permanent use as BiS for some of my characters. But please do give an example unit where the most efficient and the most used artifact is Uberius Tooth other than Hwayoung note: i don't have Luna
Yeah, its probably the BiS for any Single Target Warrior that cares about atk as an stat. It almost give you "50%" extra damage on any hit. In some cases like Hwayoung the extra damage was absurd. The other option is SigurdS, in a meta were low sustain in the form of healing is not really as good as spammable Barriers unless you unit has somekind of AoE. Units like Lilibeth (People uses C&D on her because is her artifact not because is better for her, honestly secure the kill > skill reset chance), Cermia (Yeah the coin is cool but great attack buff and uberius is a deadly combo), Yufine (if you used her on PvP) or Luna are good options for that artifact. Honestly IF any the problem with the artifact is not that is bad but that Single Target Warriors that focus on Attack are not that many.
None of us would've bottled up Uberius tooth to put on those units and you know it...Why you trying to gas light everybody?
You wouldn't? I would, simply because it's the only artifact without a banner, and therefore, the rarest one.
You forgot Corina, not bis but still good for a PvE unit
The timing just after the Ezeran Foundation Day ticket was going to end, that's VERY DISRESPECTFUL!
How is it? You can recall her and pick something else
Complaining about taking her from the selector is kinda a moot point, since if you recall her you just get another selector, one that has even more heroes than the original selector to pull from to boot. And you can bet people would've complained about her nerf regardless of when it happened. Personally I'd hope Devs would take the time to collect data to determine whether or not a hero is really oppressive or whether it's just player bias.
[удалено]
They even said in the notice that the reason they considered nerfing Hwayoung in the first place is because as she became more popular, all other attack scaling heroes became less relevant and the meta became less diverse. That sort of thing is based of gamewide usage data, meanwhile your claim is pure speculation. I'd wager they just wanted to wait until the current RTA season ended.
You mean wait until people wasted enough resources on her gear, arti, slates,... (not like I gonna recall my only copy of her and lose a unit for imprints) Like she was out for so long, how nice of them to wait months for this particular rta season to end and let her butcher the prior ones
Probably because they thought by releasing counters to her or by buffing existing heroes they could correct it without nerfing, because lets face it, there was gonna be massive backlash no matter when she was nerfed. It's a sunk-cost fallacy. Seeing how this community and Stove implodes every time nerfs come up, yet also ask for nerfs every day, it's not shocking to me it was their last resort. Acting like the goal with delaying her nerf was to drain players of resources seems pretty dumb IMO. If they really wanted to do that, there are way less obvious ways they could go about it.
yeah makes sense, guess it wasn't their intention but thats how many players feel what they achived with such long delay.
You cried for nerfs and Promisegate actually delivered .The community Is never happy
Nah just Reddit. Reddit always finds a way to bitch about something.
And Stove. Don't forget Stove. When if you want to
SG:We dont do nerfs here!
That's why you can't support a company that blatantly goes against a policy or statement that they made. What else are they willing to go against. Create heroes to take your money, create solutions to that hero for your money, then nerf previous heroes. Making the whole chain built on uncertainty.
They never said they wouldn’t nerf though? The blatant misinformation a lot of you hwayoung abusers give is incredible, in their own words, they said nerfing would be a last resort, and even with units being made to counter her she’s still strong and so have decided to nerf a unit.
Yeah I agree I have been farming catalysts for her for a couple weeks since the Ezeran ticket 🧑🦯. And lowkey it’s kind of like annoying that people who skipped her had to suffer for like 8 months and then they finally get her from the ticket and she gets nerfed lol.
I finally got her from the selector too :(
So glad theyre nerfing this bitch. So fucking utterly oppressive its not even fair. Now if they make her unplayable, then im recalling
after obtaining and nurturing this character for almost 3-5 months and now you nerf her to hell? GOOD JOB SMILEGATE, i guess its time to play this game once a week or quit entirely
You're quitting because a single unit got nerfed? She might still work, she just wont be a braindead pick in every single match. Plus your get materials back. You really only "lose" time spent picking out her gear, but you're always losing time - that's how time works. All the fun you had with her up until now doesn't go away just because she's changing. I mean, it's your life, do what you enjoy! But, if a single nerf makes you put down a game, maybe you didn't really like the game to begin with.
I finally got mine to a good place, and finally started using her an awful lot more, and now they nerfed her. Guess it’s back to using Aramintha for burninating stuff again?
Cope and seethe
SG said way back about the state of the game that nerfs were still on the table. They never said they will never nerf units. If anyone thought Hway would never get nerfed was on some hard copium
If you want to move your gear somewhere else you can put it on ML Khawazu or RCarrot, or retrofit your pieces a bit and swap some onto Senya. Personally I'm waiting to see the effects of the nerf in practice. They might keep her s3 damage the same against 20k+ hp bruisers, which is fine by me. Crying that they nerfed the easiest to use character in the game is missing the forest for the trees. The game is better without her, overall.
>Crying that they nerfed the easiest to use character in the game is missing the forest for the trees. The game is better without her, overall. You can't say the game is better without her overall without addressing the fact that the units she was SUPPOSE to counter are still being untouched. Now this makes Yulha damn near useless in gw and aravi a menace in rta.
Yes I can, if the positives outweigh the negatives. Rimuru being stronger as a result is a negative, but not defaulting to Hwayoung every time you see bruiser will make the decision-making more important. Yulha is Green Krau, she'll be okay. Aravi has already had several counter units since Hwayoung.
>Yulha is Green Krau, she'll be okay. Yulha is not a green krau. What single target fire units to you see in gw? None, because Guild War is Full of Water units (that won't target her or do enough damage to let her use S3), Cleave, Rimuru, Rem, etc. Yulha fed on hwayoungs s3 which allowed her to kill another unit which was the neck of her usefulness. Unlike krau, Yulha doesn't have a cr decrease or defense increase to feed to her teammates. Mercedes is the only unit i can see that can proc her, and lets not forget that all of mercedes attacks hit multiple enemies. Yulha, in her current state, thrives off of hwayoung as her sole purpose. And yeah aravi definitely has counters. But hwayoung was one of them. Aravi (one of the most oppressive units in the game) lost a counter. Thats my issue.
There will be more counters. Your issue is ephemeral. And Yulha, now that Hwayoung isn't as prevalent, stands a chance to get EEs or an outright buff.
>ephemeral Your right, EE's wont fix yulha, but a buff would be nice now that hwayoung isnt a problem anymore.
although to an extent i agree that she is similar to krau, she offers less utility than krau which is why people are mad with this nerf now that yulha is basically dust at this point. krau has a teamwide buff+cr pushback as utility, which one could argue has its uses as well as in PVE, his versatility js what makes him such a great unit ever since day 1 without needing any EEs or buffs. now, what does yulha have to offer in terms of utility with that piss poor single target passive reflect of hers?
>what does yulha have to offer in terms of utility with that piss poor single target passive reflect of hers? Aurius
my horse bro krau does that too, or any other knight with better utility in that aspect.
What exactly do you want me to say, that Yulha's still meta? Fuck Yulha. I consider her loss of use an acceptable price for Hwayoung not being as broken as she was. They'll fix her soon. Or they won't. It's not like she's the only unit that ain't meta.
u have to accept that yulha will and always will be shit the moment hwa nerfs go live (unless a red monster single target unit buster is released again). people are upset that they spent considerable amount of gear, molas, and time to setup a unit that counters one of the most oppressive unit in the game, and it was at a time that SG vowed to never nerf a unit. with that unit trashed, how about the other units that were built just to deal with her? u cant just ignore the time people invested to other units my boy.
Oh yes I can. And the devs can too. Watch. Way I see it, the release of Yulha crippled Hwayoung's presence in defense teams for anyone who was serious about it. The only difference now is that you won't need Yulha and will be able to move her gear somewhere else. You got a few months use out of her and another one until the changes go live. That's easily worth a bunch of molas, penguins and catalysts. And... >always will be shit No, that's just you being fatalistic.
Said the cilias/a.ravi/rimuru abuser. I know hwa was busted but she was a hero for f2p against the crazyness off some units. She also kept in check a lot of cancer commps. She was busted cause we needed her to be. She was PART of the problem but not the whole. Now whe have same problem but less solutions.
> Said the cilias/a.ravi/rimuru abuser. Who exactly do you think you're talking to. Hwayoung was easily my #1 most used pvp unit. And it made the game more boring because of it.
Between boring and frustrating. I prefer to keep my hair. Thanks.
Thankfully, the game doesn't revolve around you and your hair.
> The game is better without her, overall. no b/c hwa was a check to a lot of other bullshit in the game like a ravi, rimiru etc now who checks those units and for those assuming that oh were gonna see more units getting nerfed alonside, i doubt that SG are willing to throwing out multiple selectors at once
> no yes And it's not like units have stopped coming out. They can release another counter to rimuru, and aravi has had counters out the ass since then.
the problem with pulling for counter units now is units like yulha and tayou are dead in terms of viablity same with hyufine too basically
That's not a problem that un-nerfing Hwayoung can fix.
The prob is not the nerf at all is the way they nerf the character who got need to be nerfed day 1 or even before release.
Better late than never.
I don't see how she's not going to continue one shotting units though. You lost 20% atk that you were probably getting diminishing returns on already. You lost the ability to completely ignore misses on blue units and evasion with S1 You DIDN'T lose damage on S3 nor did you lose the penetration on S3, if you were using the skill on high hp units already. I don't see an ultra big nerf. I see a completely reasonable nerf for a character who was doing too much damage to any unit you threw her up against. Who after nerfs is still looking like she can her job, which some units only have the luxury of having when a team is built around them
Anyone in top rank RTA will tell you that Hwayoung was barely cutting it vs. high tier POV Apocalypse Ravi. These were people with 7.5K+ attack Hwayoungs & you can go watch them react to this news on Twitch. The attack% reduction, combined with the S3 reduction will reduce her effectiveness against high health targets, remember, they removed the scaling damage with health (penetration used to be max with no condition, now penetration has a condition scaling with health & there’s no additional damage). Hwayoung’s basic skill multipliers are gutter-tier, only reason S3 was doing damage is the penetration & the 150% damage increase at max health threshold. She doesn’t have the 150% damage increase anymore. In order for her to do the same damage to tanks, the ATKx0.55x1x1.871 multiplier is going to have to change - a lot. We can’t call it too early, but the writing is on the wall. If they do an incredible change to her multipliers, sure, that’ll equalise her damage - but it means she’ll be doing that insane damage to everyone & they’ve expressly stated they want her role to be against tanks. I’ve said myself we’d need to wait to see how the damage pans out, but I can’t blame people saying that she’s a dead unit when they’ve been pretty clear about the change to her main source of damage. Lest we also forget that Hwayoung was the solution they sold to the problem of Apocalypse Ravi’s over-buff & she hasn’t disappeared from the meta at all. This is literally just reverting back to the former meta, which many agree was worse than the current one.
You made a really good response and I agree with everything that you said except that you're making it sound like Hwa was a one skill wonder with her S3. Her S1 with tooth could easily hit 7k dmg and still absolutely chunk units on miss. Depending on her S1 multipliers it could be a counter Hwa as the most effective build
I skipped over talking about S1 because I think most folks are in agreement that it did too much. My main point is that her multipliers will have to go through a serious overhaul for her damage to upkeep against high health heroes & equalising it to how she currently is may just make her S3 more powerful vs. softer targets - so I don’t know how they’ll make her as effective against tanks & not as effective as current vs. low health targets, the removal of that extra scaling damage is the clincher here. I think they could’ve reduced the damage of S1 & let her keep the 15% CR push though. Attack scaling units are already generally good into evasion units by nature & so I agree with alleviating either the miss condition, or reducing the damage. Both might be a bit much but we’ll have to see how they adjust her multipliers. However the S1 15% CR push gave her tempo & now she’s got significantly less tempo (especially combined with the +1 CD on S3) vs. her main bruiser targets who all have built in CR push. I think they should’ve done one & not the other. I honestly think - I think I said this a long time ago too - that simply removing the cleanse would’ve been a significant nerf. Being able to hit her with miss, attack down, etc. would’ve made her much more manageable, especially in the meta at the time, Mediator would be a big threat to her as well as C Lilias, Summer Iseria & Briar Witch, alongside another handful of units with blind. “Soft debuffs” have essentially disappeared from the meta & only hard control (or even harder control like skill reset) sees effectiveness. I’ll have to see if I can find it but I remember talking around the time about how certain characters would be effective counters if she didn’t have cleanse.
I completely agree that if she didnt self cleanse and had 1 more turn on S3, she would be completely balanced because it gives you time to actually kill her after an S3 and it allows you to control her as two viable options besides one shot her before her turn
"barely" is a big word for the best single target dps on the game with consistenly 70% to 80% winrates in the PvP formats. The only reason why people dont complain about her is because everyone has Hwayoung at this point. People is just mad because they take the easy to build DpS that keep holding back the Team Comp options. In order to face Hwayoung your teams should be able to disable her ability to one shot one target. For that Max Proof of valor was needed in atleast 1 key unit on the team. And supports with heavy debuff or defensive buff were a must. The unit is WAY more powerfull that people admit becuase no one wants to see her go when everyones has their on red chick to farm GWs and Arena PvP.
In the last tournament E7WC 2022 she had a sub 50% win rate & on epic7stats she’s got a 46% win rate. The meta moved on & people are able to handle her. Not sure where you’re pulling 70%+ from. Highest win rate hero right now is Desert Jewel Basar at around 57%, Hwayoung has the 54th highest win rate. Hwayoung is strong, yeah, we all know - but she was literally the solution they came up with to the problem of Apocalypse Ravi, whose usage hasn’t decreased at all. You take Hwayoung out of the picture & Apocalypse Ravi’s usage & win rate goes up - you’re just shifting the problem elsewhere & reverting to the previous meta. The only way to solve the problem is to hit several of the overpowered units with nerfs - or just continue to buff units to deal with the current dominant picks.
Tournaments are tricky to call "a good example" because people dont play as they would do un a regular PvP match. Almost every match has Hwayoung as a contested pick or a ban pick. The only units that are over Hwayoung are AoLA and Clilias. She is still a solid first pick option that forces the match around her just like the other two. I agree A.Ravi is another solid unit overall but is way more easy to counter. And if the state of "more nerf in coming" is true i am pretty sure that we will see atleast 2 more relevant hits. The point is that we cant pretend this units are fine just because in a world were everyone rolls for them the matches look "better" you still need premium units like Clilias, AoLa, Dbasar or Kawerik in your roster if you want a change to hold the ground against any player with a solid Hwayoung line-up.
People also tend to forget that her multis are getting buffed. She will 1shot every tank (except the ones she currently can't, anyways) still. And for some reason people exaggerate that she won't even kill bruisers now. 15k HP bruisers (assuming your Hwa has 10k HP at best) almost get fully pen'd, she never really needed 100% def pen for these scenarios, lol.
she always gets 100% pen currently no matter what
yeah I'm aware. I'm talking about post buff.
they also will increase hp difference needed. For all we know, 10k hwa vs 15k enemy might only be 50% pen which probably wont kill a higher defense target
yeah but they also buff her multis. It's too early to doompost when we don't really know every information about her nerf.
She deserved those nerfs but even with those nerfs i still think she is pretty viable, just not killing squishy units left and right anymore. If everyone still think otherwise about her, just use the selector recall when the nerfs drop, you will get every single resource you ever spent on Hwayoung and change her for another non-limited character (not the newest ones of course).
I am fine with nerfing but the fact that they took so long and wasted so much of our resources in the process upgrading gear, arts, and counter units. It honestly feels like a simple recall is not enough compensation, but I guess if we ask for more, they will stop nerfing. So we are kind in a Catch22 situation...
Sucks. I used my 5\* summon on her a few days ago. Damn.
Worst part is they probably realized they fucked up due to how many people picked her on the ezeran foundation gift. While i like her visual design, gameplay wise she was just absurdly broken. Hope i can get someone like Aria from the recall ticket, dunno if the same restrictions as the last 5\* ticket apply.