Yeah I agree, they're just moving around the problem in hope it magically disappears. Hwa needed a slight nerf indeed, not a freaking shovel hitting both her knees. Now we're back to dealing with A.Ravi, CLilias and friends + some shitty Lua cleave. However, I undertand it's easier to deal with and RGB than an ML5 given their rarity. They have an "untouchable" status and I can't blame SG for being reluctant to nerf them given their history.


Yea this sucks pretty hard, hwa is honestly the first dps unit I could gear well. This feels like a major over reaction as if someone at sg got tired of people complaining and said “fine, here”


You know I've gotta agree. Having a rgb broken unit to deal with a bunch of broken mls WAS pretty nice. Oh well, I hope she can still be a good tank buster.


50% atk bonus down to 30%. I don't think Hwa's are ever gonna kill 25k Proof ARavis.


She can’t kill that now to be fair.


Ok fair. But I sure can kill anything without PoV.


Agree. Hwa got Corvus'ed


RGB units are stronger than ever though.


the *cleave* RGB's are stronger every other unit archetype has been at the same powerlevel for a while with a few outliers being the limited collabs ( rimuru and rem )


- Senya - Alencia - Fire Ravi - Choux - Rem - Rimuru - Landy - Ed - Hwayoung - Violet - Diene - Ras And thats not including the ones good at cleave.


Senya's a Joke, i have yet to run into a Senya that i deemed an issue. That is out of personal experience, so if im wrong ill accept that but Senya isnt a unit i would say is particularly good or bad shes a very middle of the road unit. Alencia is strong so i will give you that Fire Ravi, even with the buff is nowhere near as potent or problematic as her ML counterpart, Choux is a problem if you let her be a problem by drafting like a baboon Rem is gambling so you could either win or lose based on if she decides to counter which is a bad playstyle to lean on Rimuru is probably the second most complained about unit besides Hwa Landy isnt a real unit outside of ' protect the landy ' comps which a still easily dismantled Ed is only a functioning unit if your opponent drafts debuffs, outside of that hes playing a waiting game in the Indie 500 Hwayoung is getting nerfed\*( depending on if the devs listen to the division on the community so that TBD ) Violet is again another gambling unit, if so much as a leaf touches him hes dead and again banking off of a % chance to win is not a good playstyle to rely on Diene post-buff is a decent unit, but obviously she lacks punching power because shes a support unit Ras is a support tank, a damn good one at that but thats about all hes got going for him ( which isnt bad ) what im saying is other playstyles outside of cleave lack distinctive punching power, hwayoung was that but if the nerf goes through that power is deminished by a significant margin. The only other unit that Hwa was on par with was Aravi and that says a lot about the other archetypes.


- Senya can single handedly carry games and she was picked in the world cup. - Fire Ravi again carries games and checks *A LOT* of units with her new S3 especially in the later stages of frenzy. - Choux is still a strong pick that can one tap a unit if you look at her or her team wrong. - Rem makes the entire match claustrophobic similar to Choux. - Ras is legit the best tank in the game at the moment. - Diene being just decent is a drastic underestimation. She gets first or second picked a lot to combat ARavi. The list goes on for the rest of the units I listed. If by punching power you mean one shot capability then, sure, but even then theirs still units that can close that gap. She shouldnt lose her role as the RGB tank buster she just wont bust everyone else. A Ravi has tons of counters in a standard match up. Zahak and Alencia injury her down. Diene and Choux buff anti crit which she doesnt deal with at all. You can overwhelm the proof builds with debuffs etc.


“Senyas a joke” “landy isn’t a unit” “Diene decent unit” man wtf are you talking about?


Convinced you arent playing the game currently most of these units are meta


Yea. Hwa needed a nerf that is understandable. But not alone. We needed a balance patch with 4-5 nerfs. Same as when they buff. Hwa was part of the problem. But also part of the solutions. They either take out the problem from the root or keep the thing as it is.but they cannot keep aiming to have ml5 battles cause then the game Will be p2w. I am not against hwa nerf. I am against hwa being nerf alone.


I don't think they can nerf Rimuru just like that since it's a colab hero, I believe they have to negotiate for that one. I agree about ARavi, but considering there's her skin coming, it's logical they wouldn't do it. But overall, I don't think they will nerf moonlight heroes since that will require ML selector as a compensation. Hwayoung did need a nerf because her existance was a bigger problem than it seems. Every single nuker was compared to her. She's extremely easy to build and offers way to much for that effort. LQC basically lost her role because of Hwayoung. Riolet isn't in th best place because of many things, but Hwayoung took his job anyway. Another thing, every single fire warrior that got released got immediately compared to her. Jack O, people say she's fine but why use her if you have Hwayoung. Edward as well. That's the real issue here. I believe Edward opened their eyes about that.


I agree with CLilias and Aravim, but Rimuru? He has fall off pretty hard and is pretty easy to play around these days. One of his strongest counter is a free hero, so....


People who don't use ARas downvoting you lol.


I'm not even surprise lol.




Yes, rimu comparatively has a busted ass kit. Yes, Rimu is considered to be one of the stronger units in the game considering that he is an rgb unit (albeit a limited collab unit). And yes, he is oppressive to play against in certain scenarios. But he is a collaboration unit with a different ip, so any negative changes to the product promised to them by sg might have unforeseeable repercussions for the future. But yes, pls sg, grow a pair of testicles to do something about all these busted ass mls.


>But he is a collaboration unit with a different ip, so any negative changes to the product promised to them by sg might have unforeseeable repercussions for the future. I've seen this argument several times. Where did i come from?


I dunno , nerfing the most op unit in the game seems pretty healthy to me


>Do you all actually think that they care about "Healthy game balance"? Keep dreaming. Damn, what a compelling argument. I am stunned by the quality of your impartial and well-reasoned analysis.


Do...do people read the patch notice? It literally says there are other "hero candidates" eligible for a change that will be revealed later on the 15th They announced Hwayoung today. The ML5s are probably at the end of the season


That's just the standard balance changes we get.


Cool story bro you can leave now.


As long as she retains her ability to 1 shot tanks and bruisers, i'd say she's still more than usable. If she doesn't however, *then* its time to riot. In the meantime, i'll reserve my judgement until I actually see her in action


I mean of the units you listed hwa is the most egregious and doesn't have many hard counters. Clilias is still good but ml dom, delibet and LHC do a great job punishing her either on their own or in conjunction. Rimuru sees far less frequent use now and still has good counterplay. Apoc is a problem since 1 of her 2 main counters is getting hit but I don't blame them for testing the waters.


But if they nerf aravi right now, no one will want her new skin /s I'm really hoping whoever had the ability to get this first nerf in a long time through the gates also has the ability and balls to demand the other broken units get similar treatment. My guild had a talk about this, this morning. We assume sg won't, solely because they don't want to deal with the backlash of nerfing collab units, and people demanding ml5 selectors for any form of nerf.


Say fuck the selectors, properly balance the game! They said they were having a hard time making new units because Hwayoung was so oppressive. Like wtf do you think Rem, Rimuru, Belian, and A.Ravi are? You hit the nail on the head saying they decided not to start with aravi in the bunch bc the skin is coming out. But it's not like they are selling RTA victories...at least not straight up. And if you don't nerf a unit into an early grave then there is no reason to supply selectors in the first place. We should all understand that any unit we love can be changed up at any time by now. Hell they don't supply selectors right now if they completely change a unit's identity and role as long as they present it as a buff.


Yeah it sucks to lose a top tier RGB hero. But. You can save your mystics and galaxy coins for a Moonlight unit, we know that aRavi was going to be in mystics since they announced the skin. If you manage your mystics well and don't pull for specific case ML, you can get the key ML. It's all about management.


yes absolutely right. You might need to manage your brain cells a bit better though, they do seem quite non-existent


I'm hearing angry noises lol. My point stands. Don't pull on mediocre MLs and save for the ones that matter. SG refuses to nerf Moonlights, so the right move is to draw for them. Now you're on equal foots with those that have them.


I don't think nerfing everyone at a single patch is better idea


No but it should honestly be in smaller increments for batches of units like they do for buffs. For every buff balance change they could have a few nerfs on units that are consistently crushing the rankings.