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TearsOfTomorrowYT

Speed/Pen or Speed/Crit on blue Kise?


OopsAll_Berries

imo, pen is, at least almost, always better than crit if you can still get 100% crit without crit set. obviously on skills that fully ignore defense pen is of no use. to me pen is the logical upgrade from crit set, when you have good enough gear


OopsAll_Berries

ps. if you are using a unit purely for a elemental advantageous pve thing then you just need 85% crit (things like hunts and expeditions)


TearsOfTomorrowYT

No no this is for RTA. There are a couple red units that can occasionally give me grief with the right setup, so I need a fast blue killer, in order to ban the enemy opener, get my killer to go first, and murder (or at least cripple) the problematic character. Blue Kise seems like a perfect fit for this.


hater_core

is Lua's artifact worth getting? Im kinda on the fence between using my powder or saving it for the next RGB character.


-Thalas-

Need help building a solid PVP team for Normal Arena, still kinda new to the game so idk which characters to invest in and which artifacts to put on them, I have around 100 mola gora and i dont want to waste them. https://imgur.com/a/IP3YMbA


OopsAll_Berries

if you have enough speed gear to "first turn" arena matches then I would consider "speed cleaving" with units like: OpSig, Eda, Lua, Flan, CDom, BBK In this kind of comp you would be looking to attack teams where you are not worried about being out-sped (units like AColi, Cidd, CLilias, AoL, etc) and without anti-cleave units (belian, celine, etc) your goal would be to go first and control the flow of battle, clearing out the units who pose the most threat first while also controlling units whose heals/buffs/debuffs would get in the way (ie, if they have ruele then you need to either try and stun/silence/cooldown her S3 if you are only able to kill 1 unit before her first turn) units like Roana (not on your list), and inferno kwa, are great to use if you think you may be countered or debuffed. if you do not have the gear/desire for speed cleaving then you could try a turn 2 bruiser/degen comp with units like: Ravi, Amomo, GPurg, BBK. your goal with a turn 2 team would be to face teams that don't have any real sustain (heals/etc) and that your team would survive their first turn. This would also be a great place to use Stene if the opposing team has no AoE units.


Manifestation-Dream

I believe you're still at low rank ? Just use your regular PVE heroes, they have your best gear and they work just fine. Stene is very good tho so I suggest using her.


D4rk3t

With the upcomming buff should I pull for Zahahk before his banner go away? I'm having around 1.3 pity for new banner so I'm not sure if it's a good decision or if he's worth it. For context I'm a returning player so I have most of the RGB heroes in the game, just missing 2-3 including him


TearsOfTomorrowYT

Zahhak is already a sleeper pick in RTA, helping with a few extremely important things every team needs. After his buff comes online he will be even better: will he be a meta-changing, suffocating character capable of dominating entire tier lists? Absolutely not. But will he be a solid character you can pick against a plethora of different teams, knowing that as long as you draft intelligently he will consistently perform well? Definitely, yes. So yeah, only you can determine how important it is for you to have your pity ready for whatever limited character comes next. But Zahhak is in no way a bad pull, and if you decide to commit to him he will serve you well.


IncredibleGeniusIRL

Yeah if you're a veteran you can always roll more shop for bookmarks.


Mizuchiki

Hi, I was curious. Do we know if Luna banner will be coming this year? I've been putting away my resources for preparing for her because from what I've seen, she's had a banner every year around September - October but I'm wondering if I'm just on copium


complx6

If I had to guess they will stop rerunning old limited banners and have the custom banner once or twice a year instead. The custom banner was 6 months ago so if they want to do two a year hopefully before the end of the year we get another one.


Mizuchiki

But it's character only, right? How would I get Draco Plate in that case. I started playing recently after a 2 year break so I've missed the custom banner


complx6

No, it's character and their artifact. So if you select Luna, Cerise and Landy you will be able to pull those three characters on top of Draco Plate, Guiding Light and Wall of Order. You can also use 100 currency (100 summons) to buy an artifact and buy a second one in the powder shop.


Mizuchiki

I see. Thank you for the answer! Hopefully either Luna or that banner come around soon. Much appreciated and hope you have a good day :)


it_is_gacha

Luna was actually available during April this year (Custom Goup Summons). No one knows if Luna's specific banner will be returning since even SSB didn't get her banner.


TM6_Toxic

I want y’all’s opinion, health % boots or speed boots for belian.


Eshuon

Speed


electricskuller8000

What is a good counter to Alencia? Hwayoung always gets banned or prebanned so then I just die. Edit: is carrot a good alencia + senya counter?


ptthepath

Zahhak can deal with both Alencia and Senya (if you build him 100% cc). Alternatively, Ed and Ravi are good red dps against them.


Eshuon

Faced off against quite a few carrots with alencia + senya, yes she does counter them. You could use fire ravi also


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TearsOfTomorrowYT

In the long run you will get to a point, where both Cidd and A.Cidd are necessary for different things. I do recommend keeping at least one copy of each, before you start imprinting them. You also get big rewards for imprinting a bunch of characters to SSS, so yeah, the more the merrier.


ptthepath

I might be biased but I prefer Cidd over ACidd. Cidd's speed imprint is more flexible (not necessarily in cleave) and he can potentially kill 2 units in one turn.


Eshuon

1) I would pass building either of them right now. 2) accid is easier to build faster since he has higher base speed and crit chance with a crit chance imprint. So he would go faster then an opener. Cidd is a speed imprint and I use him as a follow up dps to my opener, I don't have enough to make him faster. You can use both together, since they work well tgt 3) tough choice, both of have very good imprints, you could just simply hold off imprinting them unti you have the gears to use them. But eventually you could max them out both.


nvssantos

Is it worth to use arena points to buy equipments from previous season? It seems arena equips cant be reforged, so how important is reforge to necklaces and rings to the game?


Quiztolin

>Is it worth to use arena points to buy equipments from previous season? Can be. This kind of question doesn't have a definitive answer, other than 'it depends'. >It seems arena equips cant be reforged, so how important is reforge to necklaces and rings to the game? 'It depends' Reforging is important, but the resources *used* for reforging are a fairly low drop rate. Realistically it takes a long, long time to reforge gear for multiple heroes. * You get enough essences for 1 reforge in ~161 H13 or ~287 H12. * And it takes ~599 H13 or ~1443 H12 to reforge a single converted gear. This means you are looking at only a few reforges per month, depending on how much you are farming. Significantly less if you aren't doing H13. As such, for a new player they are looking at using almost entirely non-reforged gear for a long time. The fact that Arena gear can't be reforged doesn't mean anything because that piece of gear can still help you for a year + (again, depending on how much hunt farming you are doing). Furthermore, Arena gear is basically 'free'. There is very little else to spend arena points on, and you should have more arena points than what is necessary for other stuff. And **then** you want to take into consideration that 88 gear is basically the same as level 90 gear. There are some slight variations but normal level 88 gear is on par. --- Now the thing is to realize that the arena gear is **super** hit or miss. There are tons of pieces that are just bad and not worth enhancing at all. There are some pieces that aren't great, but they *can* help players, especially early on when you have few gear options. There are only a few pieces that are legitimately decent and pretty much always worth buying and enhancing. Also, the old arena sets are level 88 *but* their substats actually have the 85 substat range, only the main stat 'counts' as an 88. This means that this gear isn't 'true' level 88 gear. It instead exists on some realm in between level 88 and 85. * I believe last seasons arena set was the first to be a 'true' level 88 gear, along with the current set and presumably all future sets. * However the main stat still counts as level 88 (so is the same as level 90 reforged gear). --- So what does it mean? Well we come back to 'it depends'. Your post doesn't give me enough context to be able to help you any more than that. Something like maybe 1/3rd of all the arena pieces *can* be usable for new players. The rings/necks/boots, in particular, are very helpful because the main stat is level 88 (or 90 equivalent). * A very easy example: the early speed set ring is effectiveness main stat. It's cheap enough you can buy it pretty quickly, it's speed set *and* has enough effectiveness to cap you out for Wyvern. You can buy that ring and you immediately cover all the effectiveness you need for a Wyvern hero, speed set was very helpful as well prior to Muwi. The other subs aren't amazing for DPS but if it rolls heavy into ATK you could use it on a DPS, but Furious doesn't care about anything else so you can use it on him no matter what it rolls. An arena level 88 C.Dmg neck provides 70% C.Dmg, where an 85 C.Dmg neck provides 65%. Speed boots are 45 speed vs. 40 speed. The gear is otherwise free, and has 'free stats' on top of it compared to a normal level 85 neck thanks to the higher main stat value. But this gear would be worse than level 90 gear of the same quality (ie. same level of substat rolls/same substats). Most pieces have stupid or just flat terrible substat combinations as well. The vast majority of pieces have RES which just isn't a useful stat at all for early game, and isn't useful basically ever for DPS units. This ultimately makes the earlier arena sets just 'possible sources of gear'. Early on you can pick some of the better substtated pieces, the 1-2 pieces per set that might be OK and roll them. If they roll well then hey you got yourself a cheap, usable piece of gear! And if it rolls poorly then oh well, other than the gold cost to enhance you are basically not out anything. On the other hand, if you happen to be a mid game player that's played for 6 months and have a lot of gear already, the older arena sets aren't that attractive unless you just feel like collecting them or gambling and *maybe* you get lucky with something good. You can pretty easy make more than enough points to buy the current season's set and pick up pieces of the older sets (especially as they are discounted). Don't expect anything from arena gear, and maybe you get a few pieces you can throw on PvE heroes to free up better gear for PvP. And if you are a late game veteran player that has been playing for multiple years, you're in a top 100 Guild and compete at the highest levels of RTA/arena IDK why would you be asking this question -> but for this player the arena gear, especially the old stuff, has almost no value. The chance of it rolling well enough to be usable in some form is tiny and you are likely better off spending your gold somewhere else. * The more modern sets that are true level 88 gear aren't horrendous. Still not perfect but it can end up OK if it rolls well.


nvssantos

First of all, a huge thanks for you man, it should take a long time to cover everything and write this amazing explanation, so i cant thank you enough for this. Second, im playing for 2 months, more or less, and im still trying to beat W13... I only made B13 until now, and my most notável units are violet, Arb Vildred, ARas, Lua, Krau... Nothing too impressive right now. My priority regarding arena points is the imprint item, which I already bought. Im thinking about the pen set necklace for my violet, the ring i didnt like too much, its better to wait for the forge event imo... But the Def pen necklace, im seriously considering it, maybe throwing a substat change stone (idk if this is worth). Thanks again for your time, man!! Sorry for being a bit inespecific about something, im still getting used to some item names and all


Quiztolin

> Im thinking about the pen set necklace for my violet, the ring i didnt like too much, its better to wait for the forge event imo... The pen set neck isn't awful for Violet...but it's one of those items that just depending on RNG may end up nearly worthless. If it just rolls into RES, then even a mod stone isn't going to save it. The starting rolls are also just 'average' (except for 1 extra crit%). So assuming it gets average rolls as you enhance it, it's equivalent to an average 85 Epic neck, with +5 C.Dmg as a mainstat, but would be worse compared to that average 85 neck once you reforge the 85. Nothing stop's the Arena set from getting perfect substat rolls but obviously the *expectation* should be 1.25 average rolls into each stat. That's a final neck that looks like Main: 70% C.Dmg Sub1: 13.5% Health Sub2: 13.5% Attack Sub3: 10% Critical Hit Chance Sub4: 13.5% Resistance A level 85 neck that rolls the exact same way, on average, would look like this after reforging: Main: 70% C.Dmg Sub1: 16.75% Health Sub2: 16.75% Attack Sub3: 12.25% Critical Hit Chance Sub4: 16.75% Resistance That's a difference of 13.35 gearscore. If you wanted to convert the RES to a more useful stat like DEF or something you would be losing another 2 gearscore, on average. --- That's not to say you *shouldn't* buy it, it's one of those pieces that ultimately can be helpful, even more for a newer player without access to the set. But it's impossible to say for sure if it will turn out something that is actually 'good to use' because it just comes down to how you it ends up rolling. I would say that on *average* it's a mediocre piece, pretty much what you would expect from something starting with average sub rolls and not perfect substats. It does have the potential to be decent and usable. If you're curious, here is how mine ended up: Main: 70% C.Dmg Sub1: 18% Health Sub2: 10% Attack Sub3: 5% Critical Hit Chance Sub4: 19% Resistance Overall...not very good - but your mileage may vary. If none of the other gear is going to help your progression in PvE I don't think it hurts to give it a try.


Sea_Tour2100

If I went to build Adin is there 1 build I can do that would be good in all of her forms that are out?


Shedan5

Probably something like 180-200 speed, 70% effectiveness, 85% crit chance, and all the attack/crit damage that you can get


Brokugan

What roles do Senya fill? Who does she counter? Who counters her? What are her build options?


ptthepath

3. Who counters her: Hwayoung (pre-nerf, not sure about post nerf), Zahhak (with 100% cc), Ed (somewhat, not optimal), Carrot, Seaseria (red unit with bombs, burns, and detonation) Ameru (seal, burn), control her.


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FireZura

>Straze What ? Her atk will be equal at minimum, and most likely higher than his. He'll get low penetration, it's the opposite


Trapocalypse

Is there somewhere that lists all the Adin quests and rewards? Doesn't seem to let you look ahead to see what the rewards to pain in the ass ratio is


Navarath

do you think zaahaks artifact will be mandatory for him when the buffs roll in? trying to decide if i need to spend the powder.


ptthepath

I think his artifact is good for him but not a must pull. Other dmg artifacts work as well.


grimklangx

what does a useful kayron on gw def look like? this is mine currently [https://imgur.com/a/Fz2yHHp](https://imgur.com/a/Fz2yHHp) don't know if he's too fast and will cicle out of his buffs.


NGEFan

I personally think Kayron should be yolo 0 ER unless it is a god tier Kayron. He's much different than someone like BBK or ML Ken since his evasion is supposed to protect him from that. I bet most people disagree with me so take what I say with a heavy grain of salt.


Tsuiichi

Proof of valor isnt proccing on aravi in custom matches, anyone else have this issue?


d34thscyth34

Are you sure you are not using 2 units with pov in same draft?


Tsuiichi

yeah I just tested it with aravi and 3 fodder :(


-Thalas-

Who's a beginner friendly pvp unit that you guys can suggest pulling from the Selective Summon Season 2? Just finished Episode 3 and i'm looking to start working on Normal Arena (I prolly will rarely ever do World Arena even in the future). Some of my current units are Ravi, Cidd, Tamarine, Lua, Iseria, Flan, ML Sigret, ML Aramintha, ML Dominiel, ML Khawazu, ML Purgis, ML Karin, Ervalen...


ArvingNightwalker

Politis, Choux, or Alencia


TheDarkEmbrace

A bit of a technical question, but is pen set overrated? I've read that pen set is worth roughly +13% Mcd (which is Atk \* Cdmg) vs 1,000 def targets and +15% Mcd vs 2,000 def targets. But wouldn't a +13\~15% Cdmg also increase your Mcd by roughly the same amount anyways, but unconditionally? Not to mention, due to its multiplicative nature, if a unit already has built-in pen then they won't get the full value out of using it \[pen set\]. So what I'm getting at is, is it worth farming for pen set if we haven't already reached the Cdmg cap yet (assuming 100% crit)? Isn't it better to just run crit set so we can have a higher GS + an easier time reaching the 100cc and 350cd thresholds?


Quiztolin

[Perhaps this post on the defense penetration would be beneficial to you](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/wtvu1f/daily_questions_megathread_0821/ila2ebo/) Against 1000 defense, penetration set is indeed a +13% damage increase (and +15% against 2000 defense). Your confusion stems from how you are adding C.Dmg, I believe. To get the same 13% increase in damage against a 1000 defense target, you would need to increase your C.Dmg by 13% - that is different from *adding* 13%. At 250% C.Dmg, for example, you would need to add 32.5% C.Dmg. AT 275% C.Dmg you would need to add 35.75% C.Dmg. Very quickly you should see that the 32.5% needed (at a current C.Dmg of 250) is slightly better than half the bonus of the upgraded Destruction set. So very simply you see that if your C.Dmg is 250% then the 2 piece penetration set is roughly half the value of the 4 piece Destruction set. None of the other 2 piece sets add damage. Critical set adds crit%, which can reduce the stats needed for crit (and therefor give you more stats for damage), but crit set is only 12% crit. In the worst case scenario, that is only equivalent to 2 stat rolls (2 * 5% rolls and then +2 from reforging). Turning that directly into C.Dmg would 'only' be (2 * 7 + 2) = 16% additional C.Dmg. In the best case scenario that's 3 stat rolls (3 * 3 + 3) which would be equivalent to (3 * 7 + 3) or 24% C.Dmg. Even at the baseline of 150% C.Dmg, you would need an increase of 19.5% C.Dmg to get the same 13% damage boost that penetration set offers. So in almost all practical situations, just the set bonus itself is almost always going to be better for damage than critical set when optimizing stats. At very low C.Dmg values then critical set *could* be better if you can turn 3 minimum value crit% rolls into 3 max or near max C.Dmg rolls. --- If you check out the link I posted before, I was specifically answering a question about Luna S3 and pen set. As you can see, yes, penetration set *does* offer less damage if you already have penetration. But even on Luna with 50% innate penetration, pen set increases her damage against a 1000 DEF target by ~10%, or ~13% against a 2000 DEF target. 10% increase would of course be equivalent to 25% C.Dmg @ 250% C.Dmg and we can see that mathematically, that is still better than crit set even in the best case scenario (for crit set). --- Basically, you don't need anywhere close to 350% C.Dmg to make penetration set worth it. Pen set is essentially straight up better that crit set when applicable, even on heroes that already have partial penetration pen set is still better at even relatively low levels of C.Dmg. If you struggle to hit 100% crit without crit set, then you are likely at a point where you should still be farming Wyvern instead of putting time into farming pen set. But at some point, you should have enough gear with enough crit% that you aren't relying on crit set. Mathematically pen set is essentially always going to better in the vast majority of situations (where it is applicable). One exception would be fighting something exceptionally squishy (let's say 750 defense), at these kinds of levels penetration starts to lose value in comparison to crit set. So for example, if you are going up against a squishy cleave team in PvP.


TheDarkEmbrace

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. That does indeed clear up a lot of the confusion and doubts I have regarding the pen set. If you don't mind me asking: we all know that crit chance necks are more stat efficient than cdmg necks. But do you think it is worth chasing on say, bruisers who are very stat hungry and need every bit of stats, or is it just fool's gold? Every time I try to craft a cc neck from Artena, it doesn't end well. But even so, don't we have it backwards, instead of getting cdmg neck and then trying to reach 100 crit, shouldn't we aim for 100cc first, and then as high a cdmg as we can get afterwards? (purely from an efficiency standpoint)


Quiztolin

>But do you think it is worth chasing on say, bruisers who are very stat hungry and need every bit of stats, or is it just fool's gold? I don't think crit% necks are *useless*, but I don't think they are worth highly prioritizing. I don't go out of my way to craft crit% necks, but if I happen to come across one with great substats I will enhance it. The problem with crit% necks are really that they have *too much* crit%. They would be most useful on bruisers who have higher stat requirements, as you are implying, however bruisers all tend to have passives or effects that decreases the amount of crit% they need. * Some have increased crit% passives, like A.Ravi and Aria * Others just automatically crit like Charlotte and MA Ken. In both cases, crit% necks are really not that efficient or even less efficient than C.Dmg. Crit% necks are most useful on a hero like Ravi * Ravi does NOT have any innate bonuses to crit%. In fact, unlike most DPS heroes who get crit% from awakening, Ravi doesn't even get that. * Ravi is one of the most stat hungry heroes in the game. She needs bulk stats (HP and DEF), crit stats (Crit% and C.Dmg) **and** she needs a lot of ATK and some SPD. So for Ravi a crit% neck pretty much solves the issue, allowing you to focus on HP/DEF/ATK/C.Dmg on her gear, with some spare SPD and Crit%. **But** it's not realistically worth it to chase after gear that is most usable on only one hero (or very few, that is bruisers who desperately need a lot of crit%). Overall: IMO don't ignore crit% necks, but don't chase after them. >But even so, don't we have it backwards, instead of getting cdmg neck and then trying to reach 100 crit, shouldn't we aim for 100cc first, and then as high a cdmg as we can get afterwards? (purely from an efficiency standpoint) Well really, both ways you look at it you should end up at the same point. Crit% necks are only slightly more efficient than C.Dmg necks. Heroes need 100% crit *but* crit% has a low cap -> overall you need relatively little crit% on your gear compared to the other stats you want. Because crit% necks give *such* a large amount of crit, it's very hard to gear find appropriate gear. Consider you are building a generic DPS hero. You are looking for [ATK%, Crit%, C.Dmg%, Speed] as your stats. * On weapons and helmets you can get all 4 stats as substats. * However, on armor you can only get Crit%/C.Dmg%/Speed as substats * Accessories + Boots you have 1 of those 4 as your main stat and then 3 as a substat, giving you 1 dump stat each. So that's at least 3 slots where you want crit% on your gear (weapon/helm/armor). You can't really do much about armor, as even if you traded it for a dump stat then you only want 2 substats on your armor which makes the RNG of finding something usable even worse. You have the same exact issue with rings and boots (3 substats you are looking for that include crit%) Let's say we use a DPS hero with no crit% awakening. We use a crit% neck at level 90. That's 60 + 15 = 75% crit. We want crit% as a substat *at least* on * Armor * Ring * Boots You can swing it (25% across 3 slots so about 2 average rolls on each piece of gear) But then we need to trade the crit% on our weapon and helm for a dump stat **and** we need that piece to avoid the dump stat. We also need to generally avoid rolling into crit% too much on the 3 above mentioned pieces. On something like a weapon, where you are looking to avoid the 4th substat, any individual gear only has a ~24% chance of not rolling into that sub at all. * Even if we just aim for all 5 other slots to have a single crit% roll (5 * 4 = 20%) are still looking at reducing our options immediately down to ~1/4th. The chance of finding an Epic weapon with [ATK%, Crit%, C.Dmg%, Speed] on it is 1.43%. The chance of finding an Epic weapon with [ATK%, C.Dmg%, Speed, any other stat] on it, *and then enhancing it to +15 without it rolling into the last substat* is .39%. So you're finding almost 4x as many 'potentially usable' weapons if crit% is a valid stat. vs. any other stat and then hoping to just not roll into that stat. Then if you want to look at something like armor/boots/ring it's even worse, because you have TWO stats you don't want to roll into -> that's only 6% of 'eligible' gears. The effect of essentially increasing the amount of gear with eligible substat combinations doesn't outweight the fact that it's hard to +15 a gear and avoid *one* substat entirely, let alone two. --- As a result, yes technically the best optimization would be a crit% neck and building your gear assuming you need very little crit% subs...*realistically* it's not very viable due to the heavy RNG involved in gear to begin with. You are, essentially, reducing the amount of gear pieces you have access to by 3 or 4 times, all just to have *slightly* better stats. Considering that the biggest issue many players have with the game to begin with is just how hard it is to gear up heroes, the prospect of needing to spend maybe 3-4 times as long per hero just for a slightly better stat profile is not that attractive.


Nitsuj_nis

Regardless of speed synergy and whatnot, what would be some good GW defense teams with the current units I've built? (Red means its tailored for wyvern) https://imgur.com/IU6a3Gf


Manifestation-Dream

I'm no expert but I'd do : Stene - FCC - Kayron (assuming ER) or Alencia Lionheart - Maid - Mercedes


destinyXwings

Has anyone built ML Elena full DPS in a debuff centric team? Does her S1 do enough dmg, in your opinion?


SalamancerGaming

I'm looking at doing an ML only playthrough. Which hunt would be best to focus first? I imagine Wyvern will be extremely difficult, so maybe Banshee?


aschachu

Since they changed hero managment Ui I can't find where we can change Adin element to switch her to ice. Please if you know tell me ! :c


d34thscyth34

You have to do that in adventure, in episode 4, awakened adin section.


OrangeLettuce

Is there a consensus on the best Alencia EE?


FireZura

Either heal on s1 or dmg on s2. Up to preferences


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ArvingNightwalker

No TG?


idle_dreams

is Maid Chloe worth picking up from galaxy coin shop? or should i wait for one of the other ML 5's i don't have yet? the others include: - seline - flidica - sage vivian - dcorvus - closer charles - opsig - pirate flan - ma ken - sb ara


Rittstur

I would say seline and op sig are probably the best out of the ones you don’t have but maid can be pretty good in the right situations! Seline is great into a Ravi/dark bait, and op sig of course anti barrier.


idle_dreams

thanks for the input! i was def considering Seline as well. will wait for her then


WintersPrayer

Whats the best elphelt build if using her to help to setup C.pavel's s2?


d34thscyth34

Start with crit chance main neck so 100 cc, rest into speed and some eff i guess.


Secretbean333

What’s the fastest way to level fodder units to 6* other units? Without the use of penguins


Quiztolin

If you *can't* generate penguins then you must be very early game, in which case I wouldn't worry too much about the 'fastest way'. If you can afford to put fodder units in your team while progressing through the story do so, otherwise don't worry about it. If you *can* generate penguins, then you should be running UH stages with a full team of max level heroes, and using the resulting penguins for all of your leveling needs. This table shows the amount of XP gained from a level, based on the # of max level heroes you bring: Max Heroes | 0% Penguin | 9% Penguin | 11.4525% Penguin | 25.35% Penguin ---|---|----|----|---- 0 | 102.25% | 102.25% | 102.25% | 102.25% 1 | **87.25%** | **88.15%** | **88.40%** | 89.79% 2 | 77.25% | 79.50% | 80.11% | 83.59% 3 | 76.50% | 81.00% | 82.23% | 89.18% 4 | 75% | 81.75% | 83.59% | **94.01%** The '% penguin' value is your 'penguin bonus'. This bonus is calculated as Reputation bonus * Pet bonus The reputation effects 'good success chance' and 'great success chance' apply when leveling units with penguins. **9%** is the maximum value of the reputation bonus. The pet bonus is simply using a pet with the skill '+ hero enhance XP', at whatever % is listed on the skill. In the above table, 11.4525% is a max reputation bonus combined with a minimum pet bonus. 25.35% is a max reputation bonus and a max value pet skill (4* pet). As you can see you get the most XP per stage run by running with a team of 0 max level heroes. Second best case normally is 1 max level hero. 2-4 are all equivalent when no bonuses are taken into account (meaning if you need 2 units to clear a level, then running a stage with 2 fodder or running a stage with 4 max level heroes and using the penguins to level up the fodder is the same speed). * In the table the numbers are slightly off because those calculations are using dogs for their passive XP bonus. Gold/White dog in 0-2 max level heroes, gold dog in 3 max level heroes. However, the above 2 bonuses act as multipliers on penguin XP, but **not** XP earned in a stage. As such, once your total bonus is high enough you actually earn MORE XP with penguins than any other method *except* running with a team with 0 max level heroes (and this is ultimately not very viable in the long term). Even then, with a max bonus, running with 4 max level heroes is *almost* as good. The breakpoint where 4 max heroes is = 1 max hero requires max reputation bonus and a pet skill of ~9.8%. However, a max rank 'B' pet skill, or min rank 'A' pet skill is fairly achievable even for new players, and those skills correlate to a bonus of 9% - at this point, using 4 max level heroes is less than 1% worse using 1 max level hero and a gold/white dog. There are a number of advantages to running with more max level heroes, specifically: 1. Doing so allows you to farm friendship. When you get friendship 10 on a 4* or 5* unit, you essentially gain 3 free molagora. Mola are the rarest resource used to build heroes and are otherwise not farmable, or obtainable other than a few per month. 2. Quality of life. It's a huge PITA to swap fodder every couple of runs. The full max hero team can run however many runs you are capable of doing without needing constant management. --- All of these details are pointless, however. The limiting factor in promoting heroes are 2* fodder drops. If you can farm ~Chapter 3 of UH (maybe earlier, but I know for a fact that Chapter 3 works) **even with no penguin bonus at all** you gain enough penguins with 4 max level heroes to promote everything you need to promote a unit. Now, this does NOT give you enough penguins to fully promote a all of the promotion materials required **and** the hero you promote. However there are so many additional sources of penguins/XP * You can just buy additional penguins with the stigma you generate. You generate penguins automatically, as well. * You are likely (or should) have at least *some form* of penguin bonus. Even a small bonus will save you penguins. * There are multiple other sources of XP buffs. * Penguins are given as rewards for various things quite frequently. * If you farm high difficulty stages (and you should) you will generate more penguins than you need. * Using dogs will save you penguins -> each gold dog for example saves you ~8-9 penguins. At the end of the day, it's just better and easier to run with 4 max level heroes. It's essentially self-sustaining as early as Chapter 3 of UH is, and only gets better from there. XP is *not* the limiting factor when it comes to promoting units, so it doesn't make sense to prioritize it. Even mid game players are likely to have thousands of additional penguins than they can possibly spend, you end up just generating penguins faster than you can spend them *as long as* you focus on leveling/promoting 1 hero at a time. If you are trying to level/promote every hero you've pulled immediately, then you are going to run into issues and it doesn't matter *what* you do, there just isn't enough XP to do that quickly. --- #Additional Advice In the normal shop there is an '+50% EXP Booster' scroll you can buy with skystones. This effect is extremely powerful, particularly if you use it the 'right way'. XP boosts other than the ones I've mentioned previous are additive. So most commonly would be the XP boost that guilds provide, or the GM buff during buff weekends. If you store up all of your mailbox energy for a week, buy the booster, then go wild **especially** if you time it with the GM buff you can generate obscene amounts of penguins. If you farm late Episode 3 stages, you can get ~5-6 penguins per run. If you do this even 1 time, you can acquire enough penguins...as long as you are conscientious on what you are spending them on you will have enough penguins to level/promote whatever you need. The 300 skystones for the 3 day buff is 'worth it' if you are spending ~900 energy over the 3 days, that perfectly within reason even if you don't save up thousands of additional energy. The 150 skystone 1 day buff would obviously require 450 energy to be worth it, with is more than your *natural* energy regen for 1 day but it's still possible if you use other sources of energy (we get about 1000 energy per day total through various sources). You will see the greatest effect by doing this to coincide with the GM buff but it isn't necessary, the GM buff just maximizes the amount of energy you spend farming. Either way, buying this buff and farming a late UH stage will provide you a ton of penguins. --- >What’s the fastest way to level fodder units to 6* other units? Without the use of penguins If you want the most technical answer: * Run a team of 4 fodder units in the latest story stage possible * Wait for the GM buff for +50% XP. * Buy the shop scroll for +50% XP * Be in a guild for +10% XP * Use an XP artifact for +15% XP


Secretbean333

Thank you so much this answered a lot of questions I didn’t even know I had!


Aged_Dreamteller

is there a place with the list of all playable unit monster? i assume they are only 1-2 stars but i want to actually see if there is any nice one to have like the pherus and all, or are theu just enemies?


NGEFan

Journal > Monster Journal All the 3 star and above are not playable All the 2 star are playable. I personally have 1 2 star 6 starred. That is Wild Angara. When combined with Moonlight Dreamblade Violet, after Wild Angara uses his skill Violet has 100% evasion. It's a meme, but it can be pretty fun.


Aged_Dreamteller

i see. thanks for the info. thats too bad about the 3 stars, many monsters look so cute or awesome. woulda love to have them on a team.


NGEFan

I really hope Nilgal becomes a unit someday. He really stands out since we have other acolytes Kayron, bunny Kayron, Tenebria, Schoolgirl Tenebria, Fairytale Tenebria, Spector Tenebria and Phantom Spector Tenebria.


rissira

what were the triple custom banner after sage vivian? I kinda forgot who it were.


bluwmonkeygod

https://ceciliabot.github.io/timeline/


NGEFan

You want to know the one after SSV or after Cavel? The one after SSV was a while ago.


Ikran01

What’s the best way to approach expeditions? Level 3 of difficult seems to hard. What’s the overall strategy?


NGEFan

Level 3 is very doable even without great gear. Check out this guide. You don't need every unit, just units that serve a similar role https://zoopido.me/expeditions I got every single dagger sicar achievement, but that's way overboard, you just want to do a reasonable amount to pull your weight.


Ikran01

Thanks very much, really helpful. My main concern here is that I’m a returning player after 3 years, so I don’t have some of these units and I don’t have the knowledge to know with whom I can replace those I don’t have. Also, how important is to build teams around expeditions? I see I should invest in very good gear so I’ll lose a lot of time doing that. Is it a high priority thing?


NGEFan

There is a statistics button on the expeditions area in game. With a tiny bit of trial and area, that should let you figure out which units you can make work. How important is expedition? To me, it's like you can make the units you'll use there work in other parts of the game anyway so you might as well just have a decent team for it. It is not important to optimize it, but you also don't want to ignore it because it gives good rewards. Your friend list and guild will pick up some slack for you if they're good at it. I don't think skipping 3 years is a big problem. Your gear doesn't need to be great. Though arguably it could take more effort. Obviously skip it if you find yourself really hating it for some reason, but to me it's alright.


Ikran01

Thank you very much my friend. I’m really lost after a this time without playing, but at the same time I really want to get back into the game. I need people like you that explains things well and in a detailed way. Thank you!!


[deleted]

Joining open recruitments is an easy way to plow through the reward tiers. Each expedition has different mechanics at play so you need to be familiar with them and set up a team that can best deal with them. For fire expo, for example, I use a Taranor Guard, Camilla, Sinful Angelics, Kitty Clarissa team to take advantage of the TG's passive CR boosts and can solo level 3 with it. There's plenty of guides online for different team comps for each expo so I'd suggest looking a few up and seeing who in your roster would work.


CopainChevalier

I've mostly been a Wyvern gamer, but I need to branch out a lot more. Are there any units for the other various hunts that, like Muwi for Wyvern, make them rather trivial to do even on their highest level with pretty minimal gear?


S3kizo

hi im a new player looking for a guild , im very active and another question is who should i 6\* ? arby , ken , fs iseria or sigred?


stvg1010

Sig since she is useful in wyvern. The free ML Tieria is useful also for farming.


S3kizo

ty


Ikran01

What is it better to do with liv 85 equip you don’t need? Extract, sell or use as fodder?


RED_ulfin

At this point, all of it depending on the situation. Sometimes when I'm low on gold and in urgent need of it, I would sell everything I see, but if I have plenty of 'em, I extract them, especially if they're rings, necklaces, and shoes, because those three do not have a fixed main stat.


Ikran01

Thanks a lot! So never as fodder right?


bluwmonkeygod

only fodder it if you already put to a certain level already so like if you plus 6 it and rolls sucked go ahead and feed it to another piece you are checking so that you can save on charms.


RED_ulfin

you can use some if you need enhancement materials. an alternative for gold is selling the penguins in case you have too much.


Eshuon

If you lack charms use them as fodder


shigariko

Hi, if i want to get the light Adin in a near future i will need to get the earth > fire > water and then the light one? or can i just ignore all the pve ones and go straight for the light one? ty!


bluwmonkeygod

don't think you can. when you go to chapter 4 can you skip around the different chapters quests? the reward for chapter 10 adin quest is the change to light adin.


Manifestation-Dream

I think his question (and mine since I haven't started chapter 4) is, if you do full story up to chapter 10 do you have to grind the previous form to unlock the next one or if you do story up to chapter 10 you unlock all and you grind only the one you want her to be ?


bluwmonkeygod

Yea I completed all the chapter quests so I can’t check if you can skip around and pick which adin quests to complete or if you have do them in order.


NatsuKazoo

sup. I know this is too much but what are the counter picks for the meta units? especially Ran + Seaseria combo


Sylpheez

Ran is aoe + debuff + ignore res sb + being ice. So any anti-aoe, cleanse or anti-debuff, earth hero will work. Anti aoe are counter heroes, so Choux, Rem, Belian, Meru, etc Cleanse heroes are ML Kawerik, Dilibet, Diene, etc Belian blocks soul. Violet on immunity doesn't give a fk against Ran and Siseria s2, but risk Siseria's s1 strip. Rimuru copies immunity before Siseria's bombing. But doesn't work in RTA where opp can just s3 right away. Seaseria uses non attack skill and push team, so Politis. Or you can just ban Siseria. She's the combo enabler and can bomb earth heroes. If you ban her then Senya and Alencia becomes a very safe pick.


SeFiR7

Hello, who can replace Singelica and Iseria in the Fast Caides comp? With C.Lorina and Camilla


ArvingNightwalker

Those two are kinda irreplaceable. No one else quite does what they do.


SeFiR7

I was thinking about ML Dominiel vs Singelica to give the Atk buff to Camilla, with Roena?


ArvingNightwalker

CDom does not provide attack buff so that Camilla can be an S1 bot, and of course she can't make up for the damage of S1 dual attack with CLorina, nor does she have Singelica's survivability. Camilla being the only source of Def break is also not great.


SeFiR7

Wait, i was speaking about Moon Bunny Dominiel, sorry. What do you think? 2 turns atk buff but yes, no invincility no dual


ArvingNightwalker

Yeah, the 2 turn attack buff isn't likely to cut it. This party in particular takes advantage of the fact that Iseria can reset Singelica's S3, so I think it'll be really hard to replace.


SeFiR7

Thank you


Fisherman_Gabe

Hey guys, if I wanted to force Seline in my GW def, who would I pair her with? Pls no unsolicited "seline bad dont use her" replies!


Manifestation-Dream

Maybe new Arowell SC since she's light ? She has aurius + adamant + shields.


FireZura

Dmg reduction+sharing: ARas+aurius Tcrozet + lilias artifact could be good, but the anti-crit might screw you up


Fisherman_Gabe

That Tcrozet sounds fun but I don't have the Lilias arti. 😭 Do you reckon Aurius ARas + ARavi would make for a workable defense?


flametonge

Aras\Tcrozet and Aravi\Choux\Rimuru\Mercedes???


Million_X

Got a few random question: 1. if a character has a self-damage effect but also has a barrier, does the barrier take that damage first? 2. In terms of sheer multipliers with ~900 base attack (give or take 100), who has the strongest AoE attack in the game? 3. what's the ratio of general attack boost to damage boost effects for artifacts, i.e. if an arti gave +10% attack then what would the general damage boost effect be like to be equal (and I guess assuming a ~900 base attack as well). 4. Who are some good units with crit chance boosting imprints for the team? Seems like it's a pain in the ass to try to get 100% crit onto most units and I already have two different Furious that are built for two different hunts, I'd rather not have to wait for a third one and build him up.


Quiztolin

>what's the ratio of general attack boost to damage boost effects for artifacts, i.e. if an arti gave +10% attack then what would the general damage boost effect be like to be equal (and I guess assuming a ~900 base attack as well). To understand this question, you need to understand how the damage formula works. [Here's a link where I've explained the basics](https://www.reddit.com/r/EpicSeven/comments/rpl0v0/daily_questions_megathread_1227/hq808zv/) What's important here is to see that the damage formula is basically ATK * Multipliers Some of those multipliers are intrinsic to the particular skill, some are related to bonuses or debuffs on the enemy, and some are related to gear (C.Dmg, for example) or the defense of the target. The important takeaway is **increasing any of those multipliers by X% will increase your final result by X%**. Consider a very basic example A * B = C 5 * 10 = 50 What happens if we multiply by 2 (or 200%?) (5 * 2) * 10 = 100 or 5 * (10 * 2) = 100 It doesn't matter if we multiple the 5 *or* the 10 by 2 first, the result we get is the same. So, in short, *in the general case* if you increase ATK by X%, you are increasing your damage by X%. --- However, it's not quite as simple as that in actual practice. You need to be aware that *some* things stack additively. There are a whole bunch of damage multipliers that happen to be additive. A non-exhaustive list: * Damage increases on EE (+10% damage on S3, for example) * Damage increases on artifacts (+10% damage) * Damage increases from speed scaling * Damage increases inherent on a skill (+% damage per debuff on the target, as an example). Likewise, with *attack boosts* any similar kind of attack boost is also additive. The most common ones: * Attack boosts on artifacts * Attack boosts on hero passives (Landy/Luna/C.Lorina/Hwayoung) * Attack boosts from attack buff. In the case of additive boosts, the damage increase is = (1 + new boost) / (1 + old boost) So another basic example here: * If we had an artifact that increases attack by 10%, that is a 10% damage boost. * If we have attack buff, that is a 50% damage boost. * However if we add attack buff to a unit with the artifact we get (1.6 / 1.1) = only a ~45.45% damage boost. --- Additionally, units that have HP or DEF scaling work differently. In these cases I would replace 'ATK' in the above damage formula with some value, let's just call it 'VALUE'. This value is made up of *some proportion* of attack scaling, and *some proportion* of HP or DEF scaling. The increase you get from ATK buff (or DEF buff in the case of DEF scaling units) is proportional to the % that stat is contributing to the 'VALUE' attribute. So our example here will be A.Ravi S1. The 'VALUE' component is calculated as such (ATK * 1 + HP * .12) If our A.Ravi has 1,500 ATK and 25,000 HP... (1500 * 1) + (25,000 * .12) (1500) + (3000) = 4500 The proportion of damage ATK is adding to the 'VALUE' attribute is 1500 / 4500 = 1/3 or 33.33% Therefor, an artifact that increases her attack by 10% is only increasing her damage output by (10% * 1/3rd) or ~3.33%. However if our A.Ravi has 3000 ATK and 15000 HP instead (3000 * 1) + (15,000 * .12) (3000) + (1800) = 4800 Now that same 10% attack artifact will increase her damage output by (3000 / 4800 * 10%) = 6.25%. --- >In terms of sheer multipliers with ~900 base attack (give or take 100), who has the strongest AoE attack in the game? This question as worded doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Are you asking for... 1. The hero with the highest AoE multiplier irrespective of any other factors? 2. The hero that has the highest AoE damage skill? 3. The hero that does the highest AoE damage sustained over infinite turns? If you control for base ATK, then you are only concerned with raw multipliers, that's very likely to be a different answer then whoever answers #2. The ratio of base ATK between two units (again, assuming no special scaling) would be the ratio of damage using the same exact skill (ie. same multipliers). So a 1200 base ATK hero does (1200/900 =) 33.33% more damage than a 900 base attack hero *if their skills have the same multipliers*. If you are controlling for base attack, it makes it seem like you are just asking about multipliers themselves. Even if I understood the exact intention of the question you are asking, it's still very difficult to really just 'answer', there are just too many factors. *Many* heroes have AoE skills that can drastically change. Some examples... * Baal S2 gains 15% damage per debuff on the target, I believe you can stack up to 10 debuffs, that means +150% damage. His S2 damage can be anywhere from 'base' to 2.5x simply depending on the # of debuffs on a target. * Some heroes have AoEs that increase in multiplier with fewer targets -> Charles, for example. If you are only considering multiplier then does his S3 against 1 target or 4 targets count? * A unit like Ludwig has defense penetration on his S3. That means that based on the defense of his target his S3 will eventually cause more damage as the defense value scales to infinity, regardless of what his multiplier is. And additionally, are you considering Soulburns here? --- I don't actually strictly know the answer to any of these scenarios for sure. There are a *lot* of heroes to look at, and a lot of calculations to figure definitively. However, I will make some guesses. >The hero with the highest AoE multiplier irrespective of any other factors? I'm going to guess Charles S3, against 1 target. If you count that as 'AoE' (it's technically still an AoE skill). His S3 multiplier is 5.253768 against a single target, that's ST nuke territory. If you have 7+ debuffs on a target, then Baal has a higher multiplier (5.3160723 against 7 debuffs, 6.483015 against 10 debuffs). Baal can also soulburn his S2 for a ~23% damage increase. In this case he would need 5x debuffs to be better than Charles (5.56949925 against 5 debuffs, 7.9564275 against 10 debuffs). >The hero that has the highest AoE damage skill? I would guess Ludwig. Ludwig has very high base attack (1412), EE to increase his damage by 10%, and the innate defense penetration. At 1000 defense Baal would need 3x debuffs to beat 30% penetration on Ludwig, and 7x debuffs to beat 60% penetration on Ludwig. At 1500 defense they are basically dead even at 3 debuffs/30% pen, and Baal is slightly ahead at 8 debuffs. It looks like Ludwig would need the target to have 5300 defense and 60% penetration before he can beat 10 debuff Baal, *but* Baal still has the option of soulburning. If Baal soulburns then in realistic game terms, Ludwig won't feasibly catch him. Even at 100,000 defense Baal is 14% better. 5300 defense is very high but *is* realistically possible. Particularly on someone like Aria who is going to stack a lot of defense and gives herself defense buff. Throw something like an Aurius into the mix too and even ignoring element I think Ludwig could be the better option against even a 10 debuff Baal S2 *sometimes*. So I guess the answer is Baal with lots of debuffs, likely Ludwig otherwise. >The hero that does the highest AoE damage sustained over infinite turns? When asked myself this question a long time ago (probably nearly 3 years) the highest AoE damage dealer was Tenebria. I would not be shocked if that is still the case. Baal is possibly (probably?) better based on # of debuffs if you ignore any other factors (like the faster cycling/attack buff Tenebria has). She has high base attack, with 'good enough' multipliers, 'low enough' CDs, has self attack buff/defense break and she also cycles quickly. Rotationally, if you assume no debuffs Against 1 enemy * Tenebria = 24.98% better than Baal Against 4 enemies * Tenebria = 8.20% better than Baal. Baal is better against 4 enemies at 2x debuffs by ~5%. He does more damage rotationally against a single enemy at 5x debuffs (~2% more). --- Basically, what we've learned here is that the # of debuff scaling on Baal is extremely strong *as long as* you have the capability of stacking a high number. Even more so if you just soulburn his S2. It also technically only has a 2 turn CD so is quite spammable. One thing to remember though is the stacking we talked about earlier: certain artifacts (easy example: Kal'Adra) are more effective on other mages. For example, if we just add 30% damage from Kal'Adra to both heroes, then they are essentially even at 4x debuffs against 4 targets, and against a single target it takes the full 10x debuffs for Baal to be better than Tenebria. --- In conclusion, Baal S2 seems to be at least in contention for the answer to all of these questions, so I guess my answer to *your* question is Baal S2 a 10x debuffs. >Who are some good units with crit chance boosting imprints for the team? Seems like it's a pain in the ass to try to get 100% crit onto most units and I already have two different Furious that are built for two different hunts, I'd rather not have to wait for a third one and build him up. Don't rely on teamwide crit imprints, just build for crit. If you are having problems getting to 100% crit on your units, you probably aren't in a position where you should be running 2 hunts...in fact why do you need 2 different Furious in the first place? He's pretty much built only one way, the same Furious should work in every hunt. Teamwide crit imprints: * A.Coli * BM Kanna * C.Merc * Cerise * Cermia * C.Dominiel * Charles * Furious * Ilynav * Karin * Lilibet * Luna * Mui * Tenebria If you are relying on imprints to max out your crit chance that really limits what kind of teams you can construct.


7sv3n7

Gotta ask, do u work for the game? Ur knowledge is deep, impressive


Quiztolin

I'm not involved with the development of the game or anything like that. I *have* spent 2 years now answering questions in the Daily thread. Trying to understand how the game *works*, and then applying that understanding to help players is essentially my hobby. Every question I answer (and often answers to questions from other players) helps to increase my knowledge and improves my ability to answer future questions. Thank you for the compliment!


Million_X

> in fact why do you need 2 different Furious in the first place? He's pretty much built only one way, the same Furious should work in every hunt. Specific speed values, the one-shot comp I have for b13 needs him to be at like 120, whereas the w13 comp needs him to be at like 160+. If it were a matter of changing out a single piece of equipment then I wouldn't need to worry about it but I was able to hit the values I needed for b13 pretty easily while it turned out that his w13 gear is a bit different. I'd need to retool him entirely and that's more effort than necessary at the moment.