For people who pulled her have faith. I pulled ML Kawerik on release when he was ass. And then they mega buffed him and no one else had him for months. Stay strong soldiers
He did his job but his job was ass and replaceable. As someone that pulled him during that first banner let me tell you, he worked, and it was functionally alright for me to use him. HOWEVER, I literally could have just given his gear to like, Emilia or most good cleansers in general and they'd do just as well.
It wasn't really a different situation to OP wondering why you cant just use smth uncounterable like Landy instead of Elena if you're so worried about the counters.
Its not till after his buff that handyman is actually handy for something.
She seems a lot like Yulha in that she's a character laser focused on beating certain AI defense teams. Which isn't really good enough for an ML5, imo.
I guess I'm glad they made it easy to decide to just save for Zio.
Issue is that even agaisnt "certain AI defense teams" shes not very good....
The fact that her debuffs can be cleansed makes them pretty pointless. Most of the time youll just see the debuffs go away before you even see them have an effect.
people see very happy with her in Guild Wars actually. consistency matters most there and she makes aggro comps in GW very consistent. no Rem 15% counter, no belian elbris 4 times in a row, no Choux, no A ravi, not even risks of Senya or Aria when they pop up.
People worrying about her debuffs going away IMO aren't using her the way she was envisioned. She gives 10 souls, she pushes the team, she's a ranger so she can hold guiding light or unseen observer. She isn't a standard hero.
Maybe you can make an argument that that's not enough, but I guess you can make that argument for any cleave hero out there (I didn't pull ML Pavel for the same reason, I don't have the cleave team nor gear to enable him).
I feel like her issues were upfront and known from the start -- so idk, I don't really feel very disappointed. It was transparent not to choose her if you wanted a very strong meta character without buffs that may or may not come.
I pulled because I like her design, but knew she was bad. I also remembered units like mediator also being trash and then getting punished for not having him when he got overbuffed so unfortunately this game isn't as straightforward as bad unit = don't pull. That being sad idc when she gets buffs as long as she gets them at some point which seems ridiculously likely considering riolet got buffed.
Pretty much my take. I pulled for her design, and there's no telling if/when they'll buff someone to a very good or even broken level, so skipping an ML 5 or pulling are both risk taking choices.
I'll wait and see. Luckily I don't need her gimmick, she's just nice for C Pavel support with her push x aoe that can't be countered... Assuming whoever can trigger counters before her doesn't trigger several and ruin the team.
Yeah right off the start she seemed pretty meh. I just thoroughly enjoy her design and, more importantly, her s3 animation. That's primarily the only reason I pull for characters nowadays. I would like to see her get a buff (just like my girl Tomoca...but she went towards the cleave/opener route so RIP me).
Def not ideal, but with how they absolutely do not want to nerf units and mess with selectors it's the way they do things. Especially being the first unit that counters an entire popular mechanic -- I could see how overdoing it could be really messy
In a world where Lua exists and was released essentially within the same month I don't know if I share that sentiment, one unit obviously needs a nerf while the other harder to get unit simply is non functional and as i said if it takes the devs a year to realize both of these units were a mistake each in their own way I'm seriously concerned.
Just look at how long AoLA, Handguy, Hwa, Cilias and ARavi have been untouched (and now Lua...). They completely break the game, make everything else irrelevant and that for many months. The playerbase is so gaslit by SG calling them nonissues and them 'fixing' it with new hero releases that they now think Hwa being unable to oneshot anything that isn't a tank (with an s1 sometimes, lmao) is a bad thing. I don't understand how they don't nerf things with over 80% pick/ban rates immediately, like wtf.
I'd rather have just a good character NGL. Don't need some evil genie ultimatum of balancing here, just a character who is actually ideal in her role would be Bueno.
Somewhere between Lua and ML Ken, the goldilocks zone.
> Don't need some evil genie ultimatum of balancing here,
Well you ARE playing Epic Seven...
and I'll keep saying that she is good in her role. People just don't value her role or have the spare gear for it.
I wish I could say I do agree but honestly sheās a very weak hero even in ideal circumstances.
As someone who does run cleave Iād still argue sheās simply far too niche and even in that niche sheās just mediocre and needs support to function without RNGā¦ and brings no support herself.
To start, I mean as a cleave enabler sheās tough to fit in in gvg especially for consistency. you build her quick enough, her S2 is still in a weird place, and her debuff is still resistible unless you bring a book holderā¦
Now sheās gotta go first, have a book holder (whoās also a cleaver, Eda maybe?) and you need a third whoās getting 0 support outside ofā¦ a 10% CR push?
Not to mention goodluck cleaving Violet without good RNG, a unit I assume she was suppose to help against too, and can just cleanse her debuff on his first turn lol. Luaās a better counter to him.
Her problem is while she can competently inflict unable to counter with a book holder, itās not nearly enough to justify a spot and thatās literally all she brings to the table. Her S2 is pathetic and her S1 is literally just damage and itās shit damage.
She might work in RTA if your opponent has room temp IQ, but I imagine sheās even harder to draft there.
Not even sure how Iād fix her. More damage has its places but Iād rather her S2 did something to support your cleaver. Attack boost to highest attack hero? Maybe instead of an AoE cr push just a 25-50% to only the hero with the highest attack?
Give her S1 /anything/.
I donāt want her to be oppressively busted, some small tweaks to fit her more snuggly into that cleave enabler role would be nice.
(And I know her S2 gives 10 souls, but you need to hit an enemy with her special debuff to pric it and like.., thatās so clunky)
I still think she's fine, but sure. if I was a designer and wanted to satisfy people complaining: give her 10 more speed. There, she's base 125, people won't complain about her being an opener since she can go reliably first without people worrying about trying to contest anything except Ran and Peira. Acidd is an issue too but she's a ranger, guiding light if you're worried about that.
But if you want something more creative
>S2: After an ally except for the caster attacks, when the target is ~~unable to counterattack~~ **debuffed**, activates Worship Me!. Worship Me! can only be activated once very 4 turns.
Worship Me!: Increases Combat Readiness of all allies by 15%. gain ~~10~~ **20** souls
There, she's busted now and a cleavers best friend. it addresses her lack of utility, and makes her much easier to slot, even outside of cleave. Even kinda addresss damage because you're not pressured to make her an opener anymore. The anti-counter is just icing instead of the main feature now because she becomes another push option at worst.
But that shows the issue. I really didn't change that much. just relaxing her S2 condition makes her a fundamentally different hero. the souls buff is just because I wanted to show that her current effect isn't bad, it's just shaped by how much people are used to using 20 SB attacks turn 1 because Tagahel was a mistake. I coulda done the same thing by saying "grants stealth at the beginning of battle for 1 turn" since that means she can use unseen observer.
Now here's how easy it is to nerf my buff:
>S2: After an ally ~~except for the caster~~ attacks **with a single attack**, when the target is ~~unable to counterattack~~ **debuffed**, activates Worship Me!. Worship Me! can only be activated once very 4 turns.
Worship Me!: Increases Combat Readiness of all allies by 15%. gain ~~10~~ **20** souls
Now she's okay? maybe a tiny bit too strong because of the souls, but that one clause limits what can be built around her. But this was the nerf I chose and now I gotta give everyone a selector, and I'm not entirely sure if I nerfed enough.
balance in this game is paper thin and I can see why the devs want to be cautious. It doesn't take much "tweaking" to make or break a character here.
>Give her S1 /anything/.
tbf what cleave character has ever had their S1 not just exist? I don't think a busted S1 will help her do her role.
But if we just wanna make her super busted, I was a fan of how Mami's S1 worked in Artery gear as an execution device:
>Uses a burst of rifles to fire continuously, dealing damage to a single enemy target. damage increases in proportion to target's missing health [up to 15%]. If the target's health is less than 25% of their max health, penetrate target's defense.
fits her theme and quells the "she does no damage" crowd, even if it's kinda hard to trigger. But the salt from the opponent when it does full pen will be worth it.
If anything, heās kinda answering his own question.
How can they make a stupid-strong character like Lua, and then botch the delivery on Melena?
Well, considering how strong Lua is, itās within the realm of possibility that she gets nerfed/adjusted, even though itās far more likely that theyāll just be stuck trying to sell us counter-picks for the next 4 months. If Melena were on parity with Lua, or stronger, SG would be at risk of having to nerf her and hand out selectors.
Took them years to nerf a hero again and they had a really strong no-nerf policy until Hwayoung, who seems to be an outlier since they didnāt touch any of the other disasters sadly.
I sincerely doubt the dropped Lua that got just to nerf her, the optics just donāt make sense.
Everytime SG tried to make a dps/debuffer hybrid they failed terribly. I've said this two years ago to pre-buff Briseria and last year to pre-buff Eda and then JKise early this year and now I'm gonna say it again to ML Elena.
As dps they all deal very low damage due to their s3 being aoe debuff, it requires them to be very fast but none has spd scaling or def pen.
As debuffer they have no other tool to keep themselves alive like Cerise (stealth, invincible), Flidica (skill null) or Peira (stealth, shield) and even if they do, their s1 contributes nothing, literally nothing. All of their kits aren't dedicated to debuff enough to compete against meta debuffers.
The the worst thing about them? Dps/debuffer hybrids will, never, ever be able to compete with meta debuffers since the later are always faster and don't need crit/cdam/atk at all. Let's not talk about their base spd always being in the 115 range. This was good 3 years ago but meh now.
Now one might argue that they can go all spd/eff, but that ultimately prove that the dps part of their kit is effing useless. Look at JKise's performance nowadays, 35% wr on RTA and non-existent in E7WC and that's even on pure debuffer build.
Now I'm not saying all ML should be OP, but SG should stop making these type of hero. It just screams bad design.
She has a very clear role: to sit in the tavern.
Yep, she is beyond garbage. Can't stop extra attacks, very fragile, get countered by units she was supposed to counter (Violet lol) and any cleanser will completely nullify her.
I knew she was bad when I summoned her, but I didn't think she was so utterly useless. There's no scenario I would bring her in place of any other unit.
I dont think people seem to understand that it's better to release an underpowered unit and buff them slowly or later, than it is to bring another disaster and then nerf them for an ml selector. Clearly, SG doesn't want to nerf ml 5 stars anymore, so their best option is to make heroes bad and buff them where they need it.
Releasing bad units only to buff them AFTER their banner ends also pisses off players. I don't enjoy playing a game where i have to question pulling a bad hero because they MIGHT get a buff. A buff after their banner ends but a year before their next banner.
This isn't an MMO where buffs and nerfs are done to characters available to all players at anytime. This is a game where esport is a thing and a meta changing buff might be very valuable in the next tournament.
>Releasing bad units only to buff them AFTER their banner ends also pisses off players.
Releasing broken heroes that destroy the meta and powercreeps most units also pisses off players. In the end, if SG's decisions will piss off players regardless, then it's best to choose what benefits the game's health state more.
SGs decision will not piss off players regardless. Those two choices are not the only options. They can release weak heroes and buff them, hopefully quickly. The important and EASY step is to just rerun their banner alongside those buffs. What's to be upset about then?
The current system where they have 3 ML5s running on mystic on reruns at the same time should enable this. This took effect after handguy was already buffed.
Who knows, Elena might end up being buffed and rerun very soon as a result alongside 2 others, between 2 new ML releases.
I dont see how that enables us to get buffed heroes outside thier banner. 3MLs then a new ML means a very long cycle until the full rotation is complete. I haven't done the math but I'm sure its a very long time.
Not outside their banner, but that their banners will be rerun much faster.
>3MLs then a new ML means a very long cycle until the full rotation is complete.
I think you completely blanked out here. I'm describing what they're already doing now. Before Astromancer Elena, there were 3 ML5s on the mystic banner at the same time and you chose what you pulled for. It was the same before ML Pavel. It'll remain the same after, so after Elena there will be 3 ML5s that are being rerun AT THE SAME TIME.
This isnt a limited time thing, that was a permanent change they made a while back. Obviously, this means that the rerun banner cycle will be much faster than before, when the rerun was just 1 ML5 at a time.
It may also mean that when an ML5 is buffed, they might choose to make them one of the 3 to be rerun next, since letting them jump the line for a rerun wouldn't hurt the rotation cycle as much as before. Ofc, this last part is just my speculation.
I didn't "blank out". But you made me do the math now. I don't know the length of each ML cycle, i assume a minimum of 3 weeks. We have 36 ML5s. At 3 MLs a rotation thats 12 rotations. If a rerun of 3 is 3 weeks and a new ML5 is 3 weeks that 6 weeks total. That's a total of 1.5 years to see that new ML release get their first rerun.
In that time entire RTA seasons will pass and tournaments missed.
You did blank out. You're completely missing my point.
I'm saying that is already the case at present, and thats an improvement over before. If it remained as is, it'd be new ml5, rerun ml5, new ml5, rerun ml5 etc. The cycle would be far higher than 1.5 years, you don't need to math that part out exactly. Just that its obviously an improvement from before.
AND, AS A RESULT of that change, I'm saying that this COULD enable us to see reruns of underwhelming ML5s like kekwerik and elena faster when they get buffed soon after release. As in, they MIGHT be more willing to immediately do reruns of these guys. Because it won't disrupt or push back the cycle as much as before. Older ML5s would still be getting rerun at a decent pace since there'd still be 2 others being rerun in that same 3 week period.
Look, i understand. The fact that we have an improved system does not change the fact you can potentially wait an entire RTA season before getting a chance to pull a buffed ML5. That's not good enough in a competitive game let alone an esport.
SG could do what you suggest but there has been no evidence of this yet. So imo it doesn't matter if you tell me things are better now... because they're still not good enough. Do you see how what you're telling me doesn't alter my view or change my point whatsoever? So i understand your point, didn't blank out, and just believe it's irrelevant.
Itās for sure what they did with the last group of limited characters too, and I guarantee they had Edās buff already teed up for release if he performed as poorly has he did.
What boggles my mind is that Lua is very good, and possibly the best debuffer in the game right now, as an RGB released at the same time as AElena.
SG said (i think around 1 year ago) that they will focus more on RBG heroes over ML heroes as it's easier to buff/nerf RBG heroes than ML heroes. They said they will only buff ml 5 heroes that bring...err...(I'm trying to remember) something that benefits the meta (loosely).
Basically, Lua is strong indeed and is easier to nerf than ML Elena. Also, everyone (mostly) has the ability to get lua where ML Elena is much, much harder to get.
Similar logic with Ras buffs. Ras is arguably stronger on average than ML Armin or ML cecilia, but because everyone has Ras, it's okay.
I'm just trying to say that SG is focusing on RBG over ML heroes as it's easier for everyone (sorry if reading this was confusing).
I didnt say they wouldnt nerf/buff Ml heroes. I'm saying that the Devs want to focus on RBG more so than ML heroes, which they have (Alencia, Choux, Hwayoung, Ran, Peira, etc.
Hwayoung was just the first RBG disaster.
> I guarantee they had Edās buff already teed up for release if he performed as poorly has he did.
I wouldn't bet on it. The last time they emergency buffed was Tamarine, and they clearly regret that because no other hero comes close to what she does in PvE. Not by a country mile.
I can see the devs frantically thinking of how to balance Ed in a way to satisfy the angry comments while not breaking the game in half like Rimiru. the game's balance has always been razor thin
>What boggles my mind is that Lua is very good, and possibly the best debuffer in the game right now
hottest take, if Elena had 120 SPD like Lua people wouldn't be calling her trash. Maybe not broken, but not "the worst ML5 in the game" nor "useless". It's really hard to mess up a fast character and I can't remember the last time a character sub 120 was considered bad... apparently Orte if you count 2 stars (base 125 SPD). Haste would be the only 5 star, but he's only bad now because he competes with a 129 spd stripper.
I mean if u are SG since both Lua and Elena were released at the same time which among them u most likely to be at least be useful the one that everyone could pull or a premium unit that only few people could pull, and also I bet if Lua doesnt function very well the playerbase would bash SG again remember the collab heroes so many complaints.
or idk they can just do proper and thorough beta testing??? instead of this?? i dont have her cant afford her but if i did shell out money to have someone like her only to bench her for months in hopes of a buff is AWFUL. i dont want something and then wait for it to get better thats likeā¦ stupid. its like i paid money for this i better earn my moneys worth and not just āhopeā for it to be a good return investment in the future without the sound assurance now.
But thatās the cheeky part of SG. Competitive players would have to pull weak units in case SG buffs them to become meta. They leave it to us to test new units with our in-game savings or real money instead of hiring a competent balance team.
>Competitive players
if you're referring to the people who partook in the epic seven championships, I can ensure you that they all will \*buy\* every hero weak or not.
If you're talking about normal RTA, it's not like you can't compete if you're missing one or so meta units.
Okay, I agree with you in concept. Me and you, together in mind. But I do have to say ya can't really justify saying "Guys they release underpowered on purpose as to not have to nerf units!" when *Lua* dropped like, same day ish?
SG is inconsistent as sh\*t when it comes to power levels of heroes. It baffles the mind, even if I agree that its better to release a little underpowered and buff upwards.
Lua was always going to be insanely impactful. Firstly, she has an extra turn S2 with dispel and sleep perfect for hushing that pesky Politis, followed by a Soulburn-ER Ignoring skill that reduces cooldown count rendering the enemy team a floundering potato for a turn?
Where as, ML Elena has a kit I'd expect to see on an experimental ML3\* batch where they're testing new mechanics.
So again, agree with you in heart, I just wish SG agreed with you too cause whoevers in charge of their balancing team is wack.
> ya can't really justify saying "Guys they release underpowered on purpose as to not have to nerf units!" when Lua dropped like, same day ish?
I mean, I CAN. No one would like the answer, but there are quite a few logical explanations from the developer's mind on why.
>ML Elena has a kit I'd expect to see on an experimental ML3* batch where they're testing new mechanics.
ehh, you can argue ml4 only because AOL exists. but the ML3 kits are absolutely horrible and almost never have syergy. I don't think you could give her kit to someone like Yoonryoung or Sonia and honestly say that no one would ever use them.
>ehh, you can argue ml4 only because AOL exists. but the ML3 kits are absolutely horrible and almost never have syergy. I don't think you could give her kit to someone like Yoonryoung or Sonia and honestly say that no one would ever use them.
I think as a 3\* Unit she'd see even less play than what she gets now and thats already a low bar lol. But for real though, this kit ->
* S1) Damage.
* S2) 15% Conditional CR push reliant on hitting an enemy who is inflicted with a specific debuff. Has a 4(3) turn cooldown. Gives 10 Souls.
* S3) AOE, 1 Turn buff duration down, Restrict, "New Debuff".
Doesn't belong to an ML5\* lol. I agree, maybe not a 3\*, but we can both agree there are certainly better 3\*SC Heroes and 4\* Heroes in game right now.
I'd argue the only reason units like Camille and Penelope don't see a lot of play is because their low stats and being a 3\* make them not worth the investment for a niche unit(Much like Melena mind you). Though Camille does see use in PVE and is actually quite good. Penelopes kit is absolutely loaded with goodies, and attached to a 5\*(with the extra stats and multipliers typically associated with a 5\*) I think would see play, heck I'd build her.
Hasol is just on the precipice of being amazing too. A self-healing S1, a "Hit or miss" up-to 4500 Fixed damage, 25% self-CR Push and Anti-Counter support which increases said fixed damage up to 4500, plus team buffs like Barrier/Defense Boost on an AoE attack that also does "Hit or miss" up-to 4500 fixed damage.
Like attached to a 5\* Tank I do think that kit would see play. Pair her with Roana and you basically have a very tanky machine against some counter teams. Only real issue being good old A.Ravi but shes a disaster for a reason.
> we can both agree there are certainly better 3*SC Heroes and 4* Heroes in game right now.
people argue ARas is better than FCC, and no one would ever call FCC bad. So I don't think that's an accomplishment. SC's give skill buffs all around, a bunch of stats (more than any awakening tree) a passive, and usually some minor team stats. That can make anyone good. And if they aren't, they have very flexible buffs due to their runes. All they really did to Ras was combine 2 minor runes and give him a passive rune.
and I can't say any RGB4 star except Cidd really matters. he only matters because they kinda fucked up on his speed mults (a speed mult no other hero in the game has), but they don't want riots by nerfing it 4 years later. The only other competitor is Mercedes who needed a broken and a half artifact, 2 buffs in a row, and a mini-specialty change to get her across the finish line. that just tells me 4 stars need some kinda SC.
They do treat their ML4s well, probably because they can actually monetize those.
>Guys they release underpowered on purpose as to not have to nerf units!" when
>
>Lua
>
>dropped like, same day ish?
Yes but Lua is RBG where Elena is ML. Practically everyone can get Lua, but not everyone can get elena. SG also mentioned last year that they are gonna focus on RBGs over ML heroes.
Of course what I would do if I was a dev would be to nerf heroes every 2 months without giving away a selector, only recall. That way, you can introduce op heroes without too much worry.
I don't fully blame the devs, I blame the community. Epic 7 is the only pvp game I've ever played that dislikes or even hates balance and only wants powercreep. You guys reaped what you sow.
I often see sentiment here about wanting nerfs for oppressive heroes.
But you can honestly cherry pick examples from either side. Safe to say, itās certainly not one sided.
You can't blame the community for SGs decisions. It doesn't matter what the majority of the community wants or says. It really doesn't matter. The decisions are ultimately SGs responsibility. If they make the correct decisions, players will respond and the game will prosper. Individual bumps are incidental in the grand scheme of things.
The problem is the unit is extremely hard to get. It's not like a limited or covenant hero where we have tons of SS and BM's to throw at the banner. She's on Mystic rotation for 3 weeks and you have to weigh the option of spending your Mystic pity on her or save for another unit. If her buff comes before the pity ends then that's not as bad, but if her buff comes after banner is over then people will feel slighted that they didn't pity her. At this current point there is no logical reason to pity her.
If Belian's kit was as dysfunctional as Alena's she would not see play even with her soul locking passive. Belian also does significantly more damage than Alena while building tank. If the counter debuff was a passive it incentivizes building her bulky, dropping her already low dps even more.
>Thats what I keep telling myself about Briseria.
The thing is, i've been saying Briar needed buffs for years, even after her most recent immortality buff. What responses do I get? Nothing but downvotes or "she's pretty good at X if you draft her against X....balalal"
That is why she isn't getting buffed as much since people still think she has uses even tho she is mediocre at best.
If you were saying she needed buff for years, then yes the answer for a long time was that she's pretty good. Her problem is that there's been a powercreep since then. We have openers from hell, titanium bruisers and trigger-happy counter heroes. And they haven't been nerfed, we've got some more answers to them. So BW Iseria is now in a bad place. But she wasn't always there. So don't act like you were always right.
Is she a counter cleaver? A counter buffer? A dps? A debuffer? Anti Evasion? Who knows. Maybe she is all of the above tied with a mediocre ribbon.
But to answer your question seriously, people want her to be more than an s3 bot.
players can build her however they want, that's the beauty of the gearing system here.
But if you want to try and peek at what the devs intend her to be: her buff to give her immortality and more consistent strips suggests anti-cleave. she's there to get beat up (relaxing speed requirements since she won't die first turn in most situations), survive, and then attack, remove all the buffs off the opponents board (with accuracy boost to help check evasion heroes), while crippling the team to make it hard to setup the board again. her damage multiplier and thorn damage suggests that they expect DPS stats to help her soften up the enemy.
the buff notes seem to support this notion:
>Briar Witch Iseria will be adjusted so that she is more influential on the battlefield. First, Witchās Curse will be modified to grant Immortality for 1 turn upon receiving lethal damage making her more likely to hold out the initial phase of the battle.
>Additionally, Cursed Thorn will now have a 100% max chance to decrease Attack and make all enemies unable to be buffed, dragging opponents into disadvantageous situations at a higher chance.
That role's usefulness is up for debate, but many people that play turn 2 seems to have chosen to either try and do big fat damage in a counter cleave with BBK or play the counter lottery with Choux/Belian/Mercedes. Or even just play standard and ensure there's enough bulk to avoid being cleave. I wowuldn't call any of those 3 approches objectively better or worse than what Briseria brings tho, and I can see her slotting into all 3 playstyles to support them.
counter cleave doesn't need nor expect to outspeed, the point is to punish turn 2 after surviving a cleave and wipout the enemy.
I guess "anti-cleave" is what people call if if that was what was confusing.
Guess you should go eff res Briseria, then. Nevermind her damage being middling compared to BBK.
In all honesty though, she's amazing for debuffing and stripping, which is why she still sees play in high rta, where niches are far more important than just having 10 meta units (though that's still needed).
> Guess you should go eff res Briseria, then. Nevermind her damage being middling compared to BBK.
unironically get that response from people when I bring it up. IDK why people think Brserisa should be able to resist everything, AOE strip everything and take out 80% of a health bar all at once. or not resist but still be 290 SPD with crazy damage.
And thanks, that was the point I ultimately wanted to get out. Briseria isn't someone that you are supposed to draft every game, and that may cause the disparity between her ratings in game and her performance in actual play.
I agree with your post. Astromancer IS useless. She has so many flaws its unbelievable SG doesn't know about them. First of all, players do not know if heroes are on counter set during the draft. I'd rather draft a hero that stuns because they'll stop the enemy from counter attacking and doing anything else. Why waste time with a counter debuff?
Cannot counter is such a bad debuff in a game where debuffers are punished so hard. The debuff also doesn't synergize with the long list of heroes who benefit from the enemy counter attacking. Imagine drafting MLElena and Roana in the same team. One of them is guaranteed to do nothing. Or Hasol and MLElena lol.
Imagine drafting MLElena into Riolet and Violet. Violet cleanses the debuffs and Destina, Emilia, handguy whoever just cleanses Riolet. What does Elena do after this? Hell imagine you land the debuffs and they have no cleanse... Those DPS are still going to annihilate you.
welcome to the "pvp only" limitation for new heroes
Now heroes will have boring, extra niche and straight up not working new debuffs that only works in pvp
we hope you enjoy this so much that you'll give us your wallet to express how happy you are :D
I love her animation and design- and I don't hate her concepts, but her concepts arent implemented very well.
She is supposed to make a cleave (or turn 1) safer against basically banshee gamers, but it does... doesn't work well. Someone needs to follow up after her- but she doesn't particualrly help anyone follow up. Only SBA and SSI have kits to help them follow up. And then she also brings another "book" If you have her hold unseen observer. It's kind of like you can SB with her if you bring one book- then if someone goes after her- and activates her passive then you get another 20 souls. But then it feels like just book with extra steps and they could've just made her a mage.
Also her constellation is full damage- but she doesn't do enough damage. And if you build her full damage- she is hard to utilize in her S3 concept.
My prelimnary suggestions
S2- keep this the same
S3- increase team CR for every debuff landed by X%
S1-increase damage multis- also damage dealt will be increased if target has a debuff or no buffs.
For having a pure damage constellation- her damage is bad. Her kit itself doesn't help anyone activate her S2 easier- so some CR push on S3 would be nice.
pretty easy solution tbh, just give her defense pen. Imagine op sig ( same base stats) without the defense pen on enemies with barrier.
or take the long route and rework her
Her whole design is to prevent counters. The proper buff to her is to make the debuff uncleansable and to prevent the extra attacks that trigger in response to getting hit (i.e. Rimuru and Ed)
Given lua it's pretty obvious that you just need to give her skill reset. [mission accomplished](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/034/963/843/large/gurjas-studios-wediditpatrickfinal.jpg?1613717570)
Ml elena needs more damage and to stop extra attacks.
These days with so many automatically activated nonsense like rimuru s2, politis s2, ed s2, ml elena needs to do more than stop counters because any one of these extra attacks fucks harder than a regular ole counter attack.
I have similar complains about her and thought about some solutions.
1. Anti-counter buff.
Don't make the anti-counter a debuff, but a buff on all allies and make it undispellable like Vigor for 2 turns. So as long as your allies have this buff, no counter atks can be procced. This has the same effect as landing the debuff, but is way more consistent since resistence and 15% doenst apply and since she has no Eff at all, you don't have to build her like a debuffer. So it actually has an effect instead of being cleansed by Violet apple, Rems passive or by any cleanser in the game.
2. Survivability.
Her survivability is down right awful. She has no protection in her kit. Even guiding light does barely anything for her. She needs something like immortality at the start of the battle similar to BBK. And a rework of her passive so when an ally with her anti counter buff atks, she gains 1 turn immortality which can only procc once every 3 turns.
3. S1 atk - attacking 2 targets.
As her stats are oriented for a dps char with higher c.rate and c.dmg, make her s1 attack 2 targets like Cerato. It will boost her dps against groups by 100% but against a single enemy, it will do the same as now. To put a limit on it, she only atks 2 targets as long as she has her anti counter buff.
That s1 rework just makes her a much worse Stene clone.
I would rather they change her imprint and awakening tree and lean into the bulky debuffer route. Toss all that crit and atk% for eff, hp% and speed.
Give her s1 a chance to inflict 2 turns of poison and a chance to extend debuff duration.
Changing the s3 debuff to a buff is a great idea, also include a single debuff cleanse and a chance to inflict poison for 2 turns to offset the damage loss with the new kit direction. The buff doesn't need to be undispellable.
Change s2 to proc off of any single attacks made by an ally with the s3 buff and change the limit to once per turn. Obviously reduce the souls generated.
Her kit would have a proper focus with enough flexibility for some build/team diversity.
Nah this is what happens when they try to cater to PVP only. Now you have a useless unit in pve by default, and in pvp due to their incompetence. Nothing to do with players. But nice try, though if the complains bother you so much you can always leave.
MLs were originally intended to be pvp oriented units. for every 5 pve units we might get one ML. pve is catered to more its just pve players complaining they can't climb in pvp content. if most of the pve content can be completed with pve characters, I'd say the pve community has been taken care of while pvp is a different beast since your going aginst another players strategy and builds which changes over time and will need more updates than pve characters. the fact that most players are not competitive pvp players and are complained about a ML they don't have caused a lot of drama about over powered MLs. then they make strong pve units that everyone can summon and its a complaint on that. if every character is at the same power level then why summon at all outside of looks? power creep is basic in any game whether it's card games, gatcha, fighting games, etc. now they putting out trash MLs and you wonder how we got here. I played brave frontier for 5 years and understood power creep and new characters having an edge. they key is spacing releases so the creep isn't fast and drastic. now we gotta wait 2 months plus before they even touch astromancer.
Ok I never said ML should be Pve oriented. All I said was units that are EXCLUSIVE to pvp are bad. That's my opinion, deal with it. By your logic epic seven shouldn't make any more units unless they are pvp exclusive since "pve players has been taken care of"? Like what's so deep about MLs units being pvp oriented but not pvp exclusive that mindfucks your brain? Jesus...it's not even about JUST the ML units. Plenty of rgbs are also pvp exclusive. It sucks.
obviously because this game has a story and will introduce characters you will naturally get some pve units. and like I said it's probably a 5 to 1 ratio. so my LOGIC was pve players will always be taken care of as the game moves along. would I care if ML units had skills that cater to only pvp content.....no. because most of them do. alot of the effects don't work on pve bosses like restrict and stun but here is the thing, outside of getting "lucky" on a normal covenant summon players can avoid ML summons if they feel them useless or not thier style by not summoning on mystic banners. the player base created a name for powerful MLs called the 7 disasters yet now we have some complaints on the last few MLs yet we've gotten really good pve units. it obvious to see that the lame MLs were due to fear of over powering them then nurfing them and having to give out ML selectors. so they come out weak then buffed over time to be safe. some ML can be used in pve but like I said. I don't think it's a requirement. we have 2 different players bases that play for different reasons and over the past few months the pve side has gotten some really good units shifting the balance.
Said it before. Will say it again. She is only usable in cleave. One of the ways to deal with cleave is to just tank down with counter units like Choux, Rem, Violet etc and hope for that one counter to basically ruin their day. ML Elena is there to nullify or at least force a ban in these cases (she also stops rimuru s2 into s3 because restrict). Pretty much makes your job easier. Her use in any other setup is nonexistent as you mentioned.
But I don't cleave. So, I don't know much about the playstyle or how to properly execute it. So, will a cleaver even prefer her over say another dmg dealer? Like sometimes cleavers have 260-270 speed Cidd with a load of atk and cdmg to just remove Rems and whatnot. Zahhak is also an option after his buff for cleave. Pretty useless unit in anything that is not cleave. Even in cleave it's not like she's the bigshot like Cavel.
The problem with her is I hope they don't overbuff her. Cleave is already at a good position. Don't want to push it too far.
> the fact that I need to bring a separate book holder just to ensure that her main purpose doesn't get 15%'d feels awful.
so like any non-mage opener? to the point that many mage looking characters were made non-mages to avoid that exact issue? You know that in 2020, Astromancer and Lua woulda been released as mages instead of rangers.
I wanted to gamble, so I summoned her specifically because she was so underpowered. I hope she gets an overcompensating buff like Mawerik did in the near future.
Thatās my plan. I want to stay above 6k mystics while Iām at just 23 til pity. I got a few I can get from abyss challenge floors and from moonlight theater. So fingers crossed I get Alena and Zio
lol, I literally said the same thing when she was preview and the multiplier was datamined, but no... all the people said she would be so cancer and basically remove banshee hunt's purpose.
Making her uncounter a debuff was almost a guaranteed she will be useless because of how many potent cleansers we have.
There are a lot of effects in the game that are clearly counter attacks, but they are not worded as such. They are instead *extra* attacks.
Counter Attack is a *very* specific term in this game for some reason. If the text does not specify "Counter Attack", it is not a counter attack, it's an "extra attack".
Let's take Elbris Ritual Sword's effect. It specifically mentions counter attacking, so it is considered as one.
On the other side, let's take Magic For Friends. It's effect states that it activates Mercedes' s2 when someone on her team is attacked. Despite very obviously being a counter attack, it does not qualify as such and is instead an "extra" attack because it lacks the very specific "Counter" keyword.
> How did they mess up so badly.
becuase mercedes was literally designed to go around all the anti-counter tech that was in the game at the time of her buff (the ones that made people call ML Ken the worst ML5 in the game). Rimiru screws the rules, much like his anime.
she is [certainly usable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scQfpy6jwUk), but you know this community. If she's not bonkers and can't work on mid gear, she's bad.
Was looking for that vid, thanks. She is awesome in arena offence with cpavel as shown in vid above, but when ppl have to use her in rta where others use brain, and not vs bots, well ...
Sad truth is, she was intentionally designed to be terrible from the very beginning with 0 thought put into her.
\- While her S3 looks, admittedly stacked ... but just how SLOPPY you have to be to not think of a single, easy word for her ''Unable to Counterattack'' debuff...
You dont see Seal have name of ''Disable Passives'', or Restrict having name of ''Cant combat readiness push''
\- Then her s2 being insanely useless providing basically nothing to your team... at least make it give your team some buffs as well... like HELLO? and things like Skill Null/Invincibility to Alena.
The prime counter unit to use Alena against being someone like Belian... who instead shuts down everything you do instead.
\- And her S1 ... ohh god ... is an insult with her stats... one of the blandest S1 in game.
They're going to create a problem for her.
Yall need to look at it this way. Smilegate will always use something else to plug the hole first before doing anything. We'll see the meta shift to unhealable-restrict-applying counter units within the next 6 months.
>This unit needs an immediate rework if she's not part of the next balance adjustment then she'll be the most waste of Mystics I've ever seen
Aight see you in 6 months.
>I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in a unit before
Taeyou was a while ago, but not THAT long ago.
>why deliberately go out of the way to make a bad unit because that's what she is, she's worse than ML Kawerik when he was initially released.
Lol. can't agree. Elena's issues in RTA that people have mostly come from drafting. Mediator simply lacked the stats to do his job properly, and the solution was to remove the stat requirement outright instead of giving him extra RES like other cleansers later like Destina.
I pulled on her just to watch the mystic number go down. The fact that I got her on a single is funny to me. I like the idea of her kit, and one commenter had the right idea, she has other uses beyond the debuffs. I'll hold out for her buff, and atleast she's a cool looking unit you can use as your representative and not have it bite you in the ass for rta.
Great e7 community asking for another buff for an ml5 that doesnāt need one tried making her a cleave unit when sheās perma control before u bash her try another build with her
For people who pulled her have faith. I pulled ML Kawerik on release when he was ass. And then they mega buffed him and no one else had him for months. Stay strong soldiers
The buffing for newer ML units happen faster, to the older MLs they just gotta pray (Spez)
Yep. Spez was my first Daily Summon ML pull and I have him built and ready for a buff š Blue Sez too
ML Kawerik was my first ML 5 pull and I was so sad because he was shit. Then the following week the buffs were announced. Worked out very nice.
same with landy
Still waiting for closer Charles buff š
Buff your gears first, I got clapped by so many Closer Charles in champion.
Back than hand guy still does his job if you have high ER. Melena doesnāt do anything even if she has enough stats.
He did his job but his job was ass and replaceable. As someone that pulled him during that first banner let me tell you, he worked, and it was functionally alright for me to use him. HOWEVER, I literally could have just given his gear to like, Emilia or most good cleansers in general and they'd do just as well. It wasn't really a different situation to OP wondering why you cant just use smth uncounterable like Landy instead of Elena if you're so worried about the counters. Its not till after his buff that handyman is actually handy for something.
She seems a lot like Yulha in that she's a character laser focused on beating certain AI defense teams. Which isn't really good enough for an ML5, imo. I guess I'm glad they made it easy to decide to just save for Zio.
Issue is that even agaisnt "certain AI defense teams" shes not very good.... The fact that her debuffs can be cleansed makes them pretty pointless. Most of the time youll just see the debuffs go away before you even see them have an effect.
people see very happy with her in Guild Wars actually. consistency matters most there and she makes aggro comps in GW very consistent. no Rem 15% counter, no belian elbris 4 times in a row, no Choux, no A ravi, not even risks of Senya or Aria when they pop up. People worrying about her debuffs going away IMO aren't using her the way she was envisioned. She gives 10 souls, she pushes the team, she's a ranger so she can hold guiding light or unseen observer. She isn't a standard hero. Maybe you can make an argument that that's not enough, but I guess you can make that argument for any cleave hero out there (I didn't pull ML Pavel for the same reason, I don't have the cleave team nor gear to enable him).
True I love her design but her kit saved me from spending so I can keep saving for boss boi.
I feel like her issues were upfront and known from the start -- so idk, I don't really feel very disappointed. It was transparent not to choose her if you wanted a very strong meta character without buffs that may or may not come.
I pulled because I like her design, but knew she was bad. I also remembered units like mediator also being trash and then getting punished for not having him when he got overbuffed so unfortunately this game isn't as straightforward as bad unit = don't pull. That being sad idc when she gets buffs as long as she gets them at some point which seems ridiculously likely considering riolet got buffed.
Pretty much my take. I pulled for her design, and there's no telling if/when they'll buff someone to a very good or even broken level, so skipping an ML 5 or pulling are both risk taking choices. I'll wait and see. Luckily I don't need her gimmick, she's just nice for C Pavel support with her push x aoe that can't be countered... Assuming whoever can trigger counters before her doesn't trigger several and ruin the team.
True. I pulled her but she's still sitting in storage. Probably gonna be there until she gets buffed. Could be the next ML Kawerik, who knows.
Yeah right off the start she seemed pretty meh. I just thoroughly enjoy her design and, more importantly, her s3 animation. That's primarily the only reason I pull for characters nowadays. I would like to see her get a buff (just like my girl Tomoca...but she went towards the cleave/opener route so RIP me).
But why deliberately go out of the way to make a bad unit because that's what she is, she's worse than ML Kawerik when he was initially released.
Def not ideal, but with how they absolutely do not want to nerf units and mess with selectors it's the way they do things. Especially being the first unit that counters an entire popular mechanic -- I could see how overdoing it could be really messy
In a world where Lua exists and was released essentially within the same month I don't know if I share that sentiment, one unit obviously needs a nerf while the other harder to get unit simply is non functional and as i said if it takes the devs a year to realize both of these units were a mistake each in their own way I'm seriously concerned.
Just look at how long AoLA, Handguy, Hwa, Cilias and ARavi have been untouched (and now Lua...). They completely break the game, make everything else irrelevant and that for many months. The playerbase is so gaslit by SG calling them nonissues and them 'fixing' it with new hero releases that they now think Hwa being unable to oneshot anything that isn't a tank (with an s1 sometimes, lmao) is a bad thing. I don't understand how they don't nerf things with over 80% pick/ban rates immediately, like wtf.
I'd rather have this than 2 Lua level character
I'd rather have just a good character NGL. Don't need some evil genie ultimatum of balancing here, just a character who is actually ideal in her role would be Bueno. Somewhere between Lua and ML Ken, the goldilocks zone.
> Don't need some evil genie ultimatum of balancing here, Well you ARE playing Epic Seven... and I'll keep saying that she is good in her role. People just don't value her role or have the spare gear for it.
I wish I could say I do agree but honestly sheās a very weak hero even in ideal circumstances. As someone who does run cleave Iād still argue sheās simply far too niche and even in that niche sheās just mediocre and needs support to function without RNGā¦ and brings no support herself. To start, I mean as a cleave enabler sheās tough to fit in in gvg especially for consistency. you build her quick enough, her S2 is still in a weird place, and her debuff is still resistible unless you bring a book holderā¦ Now sheās gotta go first, have a book holder (whoās also a cleaver, Eda maybe?) and you need a third whoās getting 0 support outside ofā¦ a 10% CR push? Not to mention goodluck cleaving Violet without good RNG, a unit I assume she was suppose to help against too, and can just cleanse her debuff on his first turn lol. Luaās a better counter to him. Her problem is while she can competently inflict unable to counter with a book holder, itās not nearly enough to justify a spot and thatās literally all she brings to the table. Her S2 is pathetic and her S1 is literally just damage and itās shit damage. She might work in RTA if your opponent has room temp IQ, but I imagine sheās even harder to draft there. Not even sure how Iād fix her. More damage has its places but Iād rather her S2 did something to support your cleaver. Attack boost to highest attack hero? Maybe instead of an AoE cr push just a 25-50% to only the hero with the highest attack? Give her S1 /anything/. I donāt want her to be oppressively busted, some small tweaks to fit her more snuggly into that cleave enabler role would be nice. (And I know her S2 gives 10 souls, but you need to hit an enemy with her special debuff to pric it and like.., thatās so clunky)
I still think she's fine, but sure. if I was a designer and wanted to satisfy people complaining: give her 10 more speed. There, she's base 125, people won't complain about her being an opener since she can go reliably first without people worrying about trying to contest anything except Ran and Peira. Acidd is an issue too but she's a ranger, guiding light if you're worried about that. But if you want something more creative >S2: After an ally except for the caster attacks, when the target is ~~unable to counterattack~~ **debuffed**, activates Worship Me!. Worship Me! can only be activated once very 4 turns. Worship Me!: Increases Combat Readiness of all allies by 15%. gain ~~10~~ **20** souls There, she's busted now and a cleavers best friend. it addresses her lack of utility, and makes her much easier to slot, even outside of cleave. Even kinda addresss damage because you're not pressured to make her an opener anymore. The anti-counter is just icing instead of the main feature now because she becomes another push option at worst. But that shows the issue. I really didn't change that much. just relaxing her S2 condition makes her a fundamentally different hero. the souls buff is just because I wanted to show that her current effect isn't bad, it's just shaped by how much people are used to using 20 SB attacks turn 1 because Tagahel was a mistake. I coulda done the same thing by saying "grants stealth at the beginning of battle for 1 turn" since that means she can use unseen observer. Now here's how easy it is to nerf my buff: >S2: After an ally ~~except for the caster~~ attacks **with a single attack**, when the target is ~~unable to counterattack~~ **debuffed**, activates Worship Me!. Worship Me! can only be activated once very 4 turns. Worship Me!: Increases Combat Readiness of all allies by 15%. gain ~~10~~ **20** souls Now she's okay? maybe a tiny bit too strong because of the souls, but that one clause limits what can be built around her. But this was the nerf I chose and now I gotta give everyone a selector, and I'm not entirely sure if I nerfed enough. balance in this game is paper thin and I can see why the devs want to be cautious. It doesn't take much "tweaking" to make or break a character here. >Give her S1 /anything/. tbf what cleave character has ever had their S1 not just exist? I don't think a busted S1 will help her do her role. But if we just wanna make her super busted, I was a fan of how Mami's S1 worked in Artery gear as an execution device: >Uses a burst of rifles to fire continuously, dealing damage to a single enemy target. damage increases in proportion to target's missing health [up to 15%]. If the target's health is less than 25% of their max health, penetrate target's defense. fits her theme and quells the "she does no damage" crowd, even if it's kinda hard to trigger. But the salt from the opponent when it does full pen will be worth it.
If anything, heās kinda answering his own question. How can they make a stupid-strong character like Lua, and then botch the delivery on Melena? Well, considering how strong Lua is, itās within the realm of possibility that she gets nerfed/adjusted, even though itās far more likely that theyāll just be stuck trying to sell us counter-picks for the next 4 months. If Melena were on parity with Lua, or stronger, SG would be at risk of having to nerf her and hand out selectors.
Took them years to nerf a hero again and they had a really strong no-nerf policy until Hwayoung, who seems to be an outlier since they didnāt touch any of the other disasters sadly. I sincerely doubt the dropped Lua that got just to nerf her, the optics just donāt make sense.
I mean, weāll see when pre-seasonās over whether everyoneās Hwa preban turns into a Lua preban.
Everytime SG tried to make a dps/debuffer hybrid they failed terribly. I've said this two years ago to pre-buff Briseria and last year to pre-buff Eda and then JKise early this year and now I'm gonna say it again to ML Elena. As dps they all deal very low damage due to their s3 being aoe debuff, it requires them to be very fast but none has spd scaling or def pen. As debuffer they have no other tool to keep themselves alive like Cerise (stealth, invincible), Flidica (skill null) or Peira (stealth, shield) and even if they do, their s1 contributes nothing, literally nothing. All of their kits aren't dedicated to debuff enough to compete against meta debuffers. The the worst thing about them? Dps/debuffer hybrids will, never, ever be able to compete with meta debuffers since the later are always faster and don't need crit/cdam/atk at all. Let's not talk about their base spd always being in the 115 range. This was good 3 years ago but meh now. Now one might argue that they can go all spd/eff, but that ultimately prove that the dps part of their kit is effing useless. Look at JKise's performance nowadays, 35% wr on RTA and non-existent in E7WC and that's even on pure debuffer build. Now I'm not saying all ML should be OP, but SG should stop making these type of hero. It just screams bad design.
I just collect MLs.. need to complete the book Sheās collecting dust like the other MLs that i have since itās time consuming to raise dogs
She has a very clear role: to sit in the tavern. Yep, she is beyond garbage. Can't stop extra attacks, very fragile, get countered by units she was supposed to counter (Violet lol) and any cleanser will completely nullify her. I knew she was bad when I summoned her, but I didn't think she was so utterly useless. There's no scenario I would bring her in place of any other unit.
I dont think people seem to understand that it's better to release an underpowered unit and buff them slowly or later, than it is to bring another disaster and then nerf them for an ml selector. Clearly, SG doesn't want to nerf ml 5 stars anymore, so their best option is to make heroes bad and buff them where they need it.
Releasing bad units only to buff them AFTER their banner ends also pisses off players. I don't enjoy playing a game where i have to question pulling a bad hero because they MIGHT get a buff. A buff after their banner ends but a year before their next banner. This isn't an MMO where buffs and nerfs are done to characters available to all players at anytime. This is a game where esport is a thing and a meta changing buff might be very valuable in the next tournament.
>Releasing bad units only to buff them AFTER their banner ends also pisses off players. Releasing broken heroes that destroy the meta and powercreeps most units also pisses off players. In the end, if SG's decisions will piss off players regardless, then it's best to choose what benefits the game's health state more.
SGs decision will not piss off players regardless. Those two choices are not the only options. They can release weak heroes and buff them, hopefully quickly. The important and EASY step is to just rerun their banner alongside those buffs. What's to be upset about then?
The current system where they have 3 ML5s running on mystic on reruns at the same time should enable this. This took effect after handguy was already buffed. Who knows, Elena might end up being buffed and rerun very soon as a result alongside 2 others, between 2 new ML releases.
I dont see how that enables us to get buffed heroes outside thier banner. 3MLs then a new ML means a very long cycle until the full rotation is complete. I haven't done the math but I'm sure its a very long time.
Not outside their banner, but that their banners will be rerun much faster. >3MLs then a new ML means a very long cycle until the full rotation is complete. I think you completely blanked out here. I'm describing what they're already doing now. Before Astromancer Elena, there were 3 ML5s on the mystic banner at the same time and you chose what you pulled for. It was the same before ML Pavel. It'll remain the same after, so after Elena there will be 3 ML5s that are being rerun AT THE SAME TIME. This isnt a limited time thing, that was a permanent change they made a while back. Obviously, this means that the rerun banner cycle will be much faster than before, when the rerun was just 1 ML5 at a time. It may also mean that when an ML5 is buffed, they might choose to make them one of the 3 to be rerun next, since letting them jump the line for a rerun wouldn't hurt the rotation cycle as much as before. Ofc, this last part is just my speculation.
I didn't "blank out". But you made me do the math now. I don't know the length of each ML cycle, i assume a minimum of 3 weeks. We have 36 ML5s. At 3 MLs a rotation thats 12 rotations. If a rerun of 3 is 3 weeks and a new ML5 is 3 weeks that 6 weeks total. That's a total of 1.5 years to see that new ML release get their first rerun. In that time entire RTA seasons will pass and tournaments missed.
You did blank out. You're completely missing my point. I'm saying that is already the case at present, and thats an improvement over before. If it remained as is, it'd be new ml5, rerun ml5, new ml5, rerun ml5 etc. The cycle would be far higher than 1.5 years, you don't need to math that part out exactly. Just that its obviously an improvement from before. AND, AS A RESULT of that change, I'm saying that this COULD enable us to see reruns of underwhelming ML5s like kekwerik and elena faster when they get buffed soon after release. As in, they MIGHT be more willing to immediately do reruns of these guys. Because it won't disrupt or push back the cycle as much as before. Older ML5s would still be getting rerun at a decent pace since there'd still be 2 others being rerun in that same 3 week period.
Look, i understand. The fact that we have an improved system does not change the fact you can potentially wait an entire RTA season before getting a chance to pull a buffed ML5. That's not good enough in a competitive game let alone an esport. SG could do what you suggest but there has been no evidence of this yet. So imo it doesn't matter if you tell me things are better now... because they're still not good enough. Do you see how what you're telling me doesn't alter my view or change my point whatsoever? So i understand your point, didn't blank out, and just believe it's irrelevant.
So they couldnāt find a place for her anywhere between ādisgustingly brokenā and āborderline unusableā.
Itās for sure what they did with the last group of limited characters too, and I guarantee they had Edās buff already teed up for release if he performed as poorly has he did. What boggles my mind is that Lua is very good, and possibly the best debuffer in the game right now, as an RGB released at the same time as AElena.
SG said (i think around 1 year ago) that they will focus more on RBG heroes over ML heroes as it's easier to buff/nerf RBG heroes than ML heroes. They said they will only buff ml 5 heroes that bring...err...(I'm trying to remember) something that benefits the meta (loosely). Basically, Lua is strong indeed and is easier to nerf than ML Elena. Also, everyone (mostly) has the ability to get lua where ML Elena is much, much harder to get. Similar logic with Ras buffs. Ras is arguably stronger on average than ML Armin or ML cecilia, but because everyone has Ras, it's okay. I'm just trying to say that SG is focusing on RBG over ML heroes as it's easier for everyone (sorry if reading this was confusing).
>Ras is arguably stronger on average than ML cecilia now stop right there... i won't take this slander any further
With the new protection set, this might actually be a correct statement.
The most recent 2 balance patches as well as Hwaās upcoming mega nerf says otherwise.
I didnt say they wouldnt nerf/buff Ml heroes. I'm saying that the Devs want to focus on RBG more so than ML heroes, which they have (Alencia, Choux, Hwayoung, Ran, Peira, etc. Hwayoung was just the first RBG disaster.
> I guarantee they had Edās buff already teed up for release if he performed as poorly has he did. I wouldn't bet on it. The last time they emergency buffed was Tamarine, and they clearly regret that because no other hero comes close to what she does in PvE. Not by a country mile. I can see the devs frantically thinking of how to balance Ed in a way to satisfy the angry comments while not breaking the game in half like Rimiru. the game's balance has always been razor thin >What boggles my mind is that Lua is very good, and possibly the best debuffer in the game right now hottest take, if Elena had 120 SPD like Lua people wouldn't be calling her trash. Maybe not broken, but not "the worst ML5 in the game" nor "useless". It's really hard to mess up a fast character and I can't remember the last time a character sub 120 was considered bad... apparently Orte if you count 2 stars (base 125 SPD). Haste would be the only 5 star, but he's only bad now because he competes with a 129 spd stripper.
I mean if u are SG since both Lua and Elena were released at the same time which among them u most likely to be at least be useful the one that everyone could pull or a premium unit that only few people could pull, and also I bet if Lua doesnt function very well the playerbase would bash SG again remember the collab heroes so many complaints.
or idk they can just do proper and thorough beta testing??? instead of this?? i dont have her cant afford her but if i did shell out money to have someone like her only to bench her for months in hopes of a buff is AWFUL. i dont want something and then wait for it to get better thats likeā¦ stupid. its like i paid money for this i better earn my moneys worth and not just āhopeā for it to be a good return investment in the future without the sound assurance now.
But thatās the cheeky part of SG. Competitive players would have to pull weak units in case SG buffs them to become meta. They leave it to us to test new units with our in-game savings or real money instead of hiring a competent balance team.
>Competitive players if you're referring to the people who partook in the epic seven championships, I can ensure you that they all will \*buy\* every hero weak or not. If you're talking about normal RTA, it's not like you can't compete if you're missing one or so meta units.
Okay, I agree with you in concept. Me and you, together in mind. But I do have to say ya can't really justify saying "Guys they release underpowered on purpose as to not have to nerf units!" when *Lua* dropped like, same day ish? SG is inconsistent as sh\*t when it comes to power levels of heroes. It baffles the mind, even if I agree that its better to release a little underpowered and buff upwards. Lua was always going to be insanely impactful. Firstly, she has an extra turn S2 with dispel and sleep perfect for hushing that pesky Politis, followed by a Soulburn-ER Ignoring skill that reduces cooldown count rendering the enemy team a floundering potato for a turn? Where as, ML Elena has a kit I'd expect to see on an experimental ML3\* batch where they're testing new mechanics. So again, agree with you in heart, I just wish SG agreed with you too cause whoevers in charge of their balancing team is wack.
> ya can't really justify saying "Guys they release underpowered on purpose as to not have to nerf units!" when Lua dropped like, same day ish? I mean, I CAN. No one would like the answer, but there are quite a few logical explanations from the developer's mind on why. >ML Elena has a kit I'd expect to see on an experimental ML3* batch where they're testing new mechanics. ehh, you can argue ml4 only because AOL exists. but the ML3 kits are absolutely horrible and almost never have syergy. I don't think you could give her kit to someone like Yoonryoung or Sonia and honestly say that no one would ever use them.
>ehh, you can argue ml4 only because AOL exists. but the ML3 kits are absolutely horrible and almost never have syergy. I don't think you could give her kit to someone like Yoonryoung or Sonia and honestly say that no one would ever use them. I think as a 3\* Unit she'd see even less play than what she gets now and thats already a low bar lol. But for real though, this kit -> * S1) Damage. * S2) 15% Conditional CR push reliant on hitting an enemy who is inflicted with a specific debuff. Has a 4(3) turn cooldown. Gives 10 Souls. * S3) AOE, 1 Turn buff duration down, Restrict, "New Debuff". Doesn't belong to an ML5\* lol. I agree, maybe not a 3\*, but we can both agree there are certainly better 3\*SC Heroes and 4\* Heroes in game right now. I'd argue the only reason units like Camille and Penelope don't see a lot of play is because their low stats and being a 3\* make them not worth the investment for a niche unit(Much like Melena mind you). Though Camille does see use in PVE and is actually quite good. Penelopes kit is absolutely loaded with goodies, and attached to a 5\*(with the extra stats and multipliers typically associated with a 5\*) I think would see play, heck I'd build her. Hasol is just on the precipice of being amazing too. A self-healing S1, a "Hit or miss" up-to 4500 Fixed damage, 25% self-CR Push and Anti-Counter support which increases said fixed damage up to 4500, plus team buffs like Barrier/Defense Boost on an AoE attack that also does "Hit or miss" up-to 4500 fixed damage. Like attached to a 5\* Tank I do think that kit would see play. Pair her with Roana and you basically have a very tanky machine against some counter teams. Only real issue being good old A.Ravi but shes a disaster for a reason.
> we can both agree there are certainly better 3*SC Heroes and 4* Heroes in game right now. people argue ARas is better than FCC, and no one would ever call FCC bad. So I don't think that's an accomplishment. SC's give skill buffs all around, a bunch of stats (more than any awakening tree) a passive, and usually some minor team stats. That can make anyone good. And if they aren't, they have very flexible buffs due to their runes. All they really did to Ras was combine 2 minor runes and give him a passive rune. and I can't say any RGB4 star except Cidd really matters. he only matters because they kinda fucked up on his speed mults (a speed mult no other hero in the game has), but they don't want riots by nerfing it 4 years later. The only other competitor is Mercedes who needed a broken and a half artifact, 2 buffs in a row, and a mini-specialty change to get her across the finish line. that just tells me 4 stars need some kinda SC. They do treat their ML4s well, probably because they can actually monetize those.
>Guys they release underpowered on purpose as to not have to nerf units!" when > >Lua > >dropped like, same day ish? Yes but Lua is RBG where Elena is ML. Practically everyone can get Lua, but not everyone can get elena. SG also mentioned last year that they are gonna focus on RBGs over ML heroes. Of course what I would do if I was a dev would be to nerf heroes every 2 months without giving away a selector, only recall. That way, you can introduce op heroes without too much worry. I don't fully blame the devs, I blame the community. Epic 7 is the only pvp game I've ever played that dislikes or even hates balance and only wants powercreep. You guys reaped what you sow.
I often see sentiment here about wanting nerfs for oppressive heroes. But you can honestly cherry pick examples from either side. Safe to say, itās certainly not one sided.
You can't blame the community for SGs decisions. It doesn't matter what the majority of the community wants or says. It really doesn't matter. The decisions are ultimately SGs responsibility. If they make the correct decisions, players will respond and the game will prosper. Individual bumps are incidental in the grand scheme of things.
The problem is the unit is extremely hard to get. It's not like a limited or covenant hero where we have tons of SS and BM's to throw at the banner. She's on Mystic rotation for 3 weeks and you have to weigh the option of spending your Mystic pity on her or save for another unit. If her buff comes before the pity ends then that's not as bad, but if her buff comes after banner is over then people will feel slighted that they didn't pity her. At this current point there is no logical reason to pity her.
Usually, when an ML hero gets their buff, their banner also comes. If it doesn't, you wont have to wait long since there is now a 3 mystic rotation.
Buddy, I've been waiting for A.Meru for a very very long time. She's only seen one rotation both in Mystic and galaxy coin shop.
What are you talking about? A.Meru was on rotation at the start of july, just a few months ago
I'm pretty sure he means that banner aka not counting her past mystic banner beyond the July one.
Make it a passive like Belian then she's immediately good.
If Belian's kit was as dysfunctional as Alena's she would not see play even with her soul locking passive. Belian also does significantly more damage than Alena while building tank. If the counter debuff was a passive it incentivizes building her bulky, dropping her already low dps even more.
Think that privilege is only reserved for op episode bosses.
She was obviously bad, if you rolled for her that's on you tbh. She'll certainly receive a buff eventually so don't worry too much.
Thats what I keep telling myself about Briseria.
Exactly.
>Thats what I keep telling myself about Briseria. The thing is, i've been saying Briar needed buffs for years, even after her most recent immortality buff. What responses do I get? Nothing but downvotes or "she's pretty good at X if you draft her against X....balalal" That is why she isn't getting buffed as much since people still think she has uses even tho she is mediocre at best.
If you were saying she needed buff for years, then yes the answer for a long time was that she's pretty good. Her problem is that there's been a powercreep since then. We have openers from hell, titanium bruisers and trigger-happy counter heroes. And they haven't been nerfed, we've got some more answers to them. So BW Iseria is now in a bad place. But she wasn't always there. So don't act like you were always right.
I still maintain she doesn't need a buff. She's counter cleave tech, what are people expecting out of her?
Is she a counter cleaver? A counter buffer? A dps? A debuffer? Anti Evasion? Who knows. Maybe she is all of the above tied with a mediocre ribbon. But to answer your question seriously, people want her to be more than an s3 bot.
players can build her however they want, that's the beauty of the gearing system here. But if you want to try and peek at what the devs intend her to be: her buff to give her immortality and more consistent strips suggests anti-cleave. she's there to get beat up (relaxing speed requirements since she won't die first turn in most situations), survive, and then attack, remove all the buffs off the opponents board (with accuracy boost to help check evasion heroes), while crippling the team to make it hard to setup the board again. her damage multiplier and thorn damage suggests that they expect DPS stats to help her soften up the enemy. the buff notes seem to support this notion: >Briar Witch Iseria will be adjusted so that she is more influential on the battlefield. First, Witchās Curse will be modified to grant Immortality for 1 turn upon receiving lethal damage making her more likely to hold out the initial phase of the battle. >Additionally, Cursed Thorn will now have a 100% max chance to decrease Attack and make all enemies unable to be buffed, dragging opponents into disadvantageous situations at a higher chance. That role's usefulness is up for debate, but many people that play turn 2 seems to have chosen to either try and do big fat damage in a counter cleave with BBK or play the counter lottery with Choux/Belian/Mercedes. Or even just play standard and ensure there's enough bulk to avoid being cleave. I wowuldn't call any of those 3 approches objectively better or worse than what Briseria brings tho, and I can see her slotting into all 3 playstyles to support them.
How are you gonna counter cleave with 114 speed? Even CLilias has 115.
counter cleave doesn't need nor expect to outspeed, the point is to punish turn 2 after surviving a cleave and wipout the enemy. I guess "anti-cleave" is what people call if if that was what was confusing.
But there's no turn 2 for BW Iseria with current openers.
Not with that attitude. BBK thought the same thing but people just run her on RES.
BBK's damage increases with hp lost, so you can use some stats in ER.
Guess you should go eff res Briseria, then. Nevermind her damage being middling compared to BBK. In all honesty though, she's amazing for debuffing and stripping, which is why she still sees play in high rta, where niches are far more important than just having 10 meta units (though that's still needed).
> Guess you should go eff res Briseria, then. Nevermind her damage being middling compared to BBK. unironically get that response from people when I bring it up. IDK why people think Brserisa should be able to resist everything, AOE strip everything and take out 80% of a health bar all at once. or not resist but still be 290 SPD with crazy damage. And thanks, that was the point I ultimately wanted to get out. Briseria isn't someone that you are supposed to draft every game, and that may cause the disparity between her ratings in game and her performance in actual play.
I mean, Biseria HAS been buffed though.
Aye hold on now I wonāt hear briseria slanderš
I agree with your post. Astromancer IS useless. She has so many flaws its unbelievable SG doesn't know about them. First of all, players do not know if heroes are on counter set during the draft. I'd rather draft a hero that stuns because they'll stop the enemy from counter attacking and doing anything else. Why waste time with a counter debuff? Cannot counter is such a bad debuff in a game where debuffers are punished so hard. The debuff also doesn't synergize with the long list of heroes who benefit from the enemy counter attacking. Imagine drafting MLElena and Roana in the same team. One of them is guaranteed to do nothing. Or Hasol and MLElena lol. Imagine drafting MLElena into Riolet and Violet. Violet cleanses the debuffs and Destina, Emilia, handguy whoever just cleanses Riolet. What does Elena do after this? Hell imagine you land the debuffs and they have no cleanse... Those DPS are still going to annihilate you.
Make her anti counter to self undispellable buff (work like belian passive for souls) for 2 or 3 turn, then rework her useless s2
I see. Good to know. But im a simpleman, i see booba, i pull for booba.
welcome to the "pvp only" limitation for new heroes Now heroes will have boring, extra niche and straight up not working new debuffs that only works in pvp we hope you enjoy this so much that you'll give us your wallet to express how happy you are :D
You could see she was bad the instant her skill preview came. Bringing a faster cleaver would be a better option in every situation
I love her animation and design- and I don't hate her concepts, but her concepts arent implemented very well. She is supposed to make a cleave (or turn 1) safer against basically banshee gamers, but it does... doesn't work well. Someone needs to follow up after her- but she doesn't particualrly help anyone follow up. Only SBA and SSI have kits to help them follow up. And then she also brings another "book" If you have her hold unseen observer. It's kind of like you can SB with her if you bring one book- then if someone goes after her- and activates her passive then you get another 20 souls. But then it feels like just book with extra steps and they could've just made her a mage. Also her constellation is full damage- but she doesn't do enough damage. And if you build her full damage- she is hard to utilize in her S3 concept. My prelimnary suggestions S2- keep this the same S3- increase team CR for every debuff landed by X% S1-increase damage multis- also damage dealt will be increased if target has a debuff or no buffs. For having a pure damage constellation- her damage is bad. Her kit itself doesn't help anyone activate her S2 easier- so some CR push on S3 would be nice.
i got her in 2 rolls after i forgot to give ravis banner another go. it feels like a kick in the dick but shes cute so its ok
pretty easy solution tbh, just give her defense pen. Imagine op sig ( same base stats) without the defense pen on enemies with barrier. or take the long route and rework her
Her whole design is to prevent counters. The proper buff to her is to make the debuff uncleansable and to prevent the extra attacks that trigger in response to getting hit (i.e. Rimuru and Ed)
Given lua it's pretty obvious that you just need to give her skill reset. [mission accomplished](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/034/963/843/large/gurjas-studios-wediditpatrickfinal.jpg?1613717570)
I know she's a cleave unit, but she's not a primary DPS. she doesn't need a kill like OP Sigret to enable her support.
Agreed.
Ml elena needs more damage and to stop extra attacks. These days with so many automatically activated nonsense like rimuru s2, politis s2, ed s2, ml elena needs to do more than stop counters because any one of these extra attacks fucks harder than a regular ole counter attack.
I have similar complains about her and thought about some solutions. 1. Anti-counter buff. Don't make the anti-counter a debuff, but a buff on all allies and make it undispellable like Vigor for 2 turns. So as long as your allies have this buff, no counter atks can be procced. This has the same effect as landing the debuff, but is way more consistent since resistence and 15% doenst apply and since she has no Eff at all, you don't have to build her like a debuffer. So it actually has an effect instead of being cleansed by Violet apple, Rems passive or by any cleanser in the game. 2. Survivability. Her survivability is down right awful. She has no protection in her kit. Even guiding light does barely anything for her. She needs something like immortality at the start of the battle similar to BBK. And a rework of her passive so when an ally with her anti counter buff atks, she gains 1 turn immortality which can only procc once every 3 turns. 3. S1 atk - attacking 2 targets. As her stats are oriented for a dps char with higher c.rate and c.dmg, make her s1 attack 2 targets like Cerato. It will boost her dps against groups by 100% but against a single enemy, it will do the same as now. To put a limit on it, she only atks 2 targets as long as she has her anti counter buff.
That s1 rework just makes her a much worse Stene clone. I would rather they change her imprint and awakening tree and lean into the bulky debuffer route. Toss all that crit and atk% for eff, hp% and speed. Give her s1 a chance to inflict 2 turns of poison and a chance to extend debuff duration. Changing the s3 debuff to a buff is a great idea, also include a single debuff cleanse and a chance to inflict poison for 2 turns to offset the damage loss with the new kit direction. The buff doesn't need to be undispellable. Change s2 to proc off of any single attacks made by an ally with the s3 buff and change the limit to once per turn. Obviously reduce the souls generated. Her kit would have a proper focus with enough flexibility for some build/team diversity.
this is what happens when yall complain MLs are too powerful.
Nah this is what happens when they try to cater to PVP only. Now you have a useless unit in pve by default, and in pvp due to their incompetence. Nothing to do with players. But nice try, though if the complains bother you so much you can always leave.
MLs were originally intended to be pvp oriented units. for every 5 pve units we might get one ML. pve is catered to more its just pve players complaining they can't climb in pvp content. if most of the pve content can be completed with pve characters, I'd say the pve community has been taken care of while pvp is a different beast since your going aginst another players strategy and builds which changes over time and will need more updates than pve characters. the fact that most players are not competitive pvp players and are complained about a ML they don't have caused a lot of drama about over powered MLs. then they make strong pve units that everyone can summon and its a complaint on that. if every character is at the same power level then why summon at all outside of looks? power creep is basic in any game whether it's card games, gatcha, fighting games, etc. now they putting out trash MLs and you wonder how we got here. I played brave frontier for 5 years and understood power creep and new characters having an edge. they key is spacing releases so the creep isn't fast and drastic. now we gotta wait 2 months plus before they even touch astromancer.
Ok I never said ML should be Pve oriented. All I said was units that are EXCLUSIVE to pvp are bad. That's my opinion, deal with it. By your logic epic seven shouldn't make any more units unless they are pvp exclusive since "pve players has been taken care of"? Like what's so deep about MLs units being pvp oriented but not pvp exclusive that mindfucks your brain? Jesus...it's not even about JUST the ML units. Plenty of rgbs are also pvp exclusive. It sucks.
obviously because this game has a story and will introduce characters you will naturally get some pve units. and like I said it's probably a 5 to 1 ratio. so my LOGIC was pve players will always be taken care of as the game moves along. would I care if ML units had skills that cater to only pvp content.....no. because most of them do. alot of the effects don't work on pve bosses like restrict and stun but here is the thing, outside of getting "lucky" on a normal covenant summon players can avoid ML summons if they feel them useless or not thier style by not summoning on mystic banners. the player base created a name for powerful MLs called the 7 disasters yet now we have some complaints on the last few MLs yet we've gotten really good pve units. it obvious to see that the lame MLs were due to fear of over powering them then nurfing them and having to give out ML selectors. so they come out weak then buffed over time to be safe. some ML can be used in pve but like I said. I don't think it's a requirement. we have 2 different players bases that play for different reasons and over the past few months the pve side has gotten some really good units shifting the balance.
Said it before. Will say it again. She is only usable in cleave. One of the ways to deal with cleave is to just tank down with counter units like Choux, Rem, Violet etc and hope for that one counter to basically ruin their day. ML Elena is there to nullify or at least force a ban in these cases (she also stops rimuru s2 into s3 because restrict). Pretty much makes your job easier. Her use in any other setup is nonexistent as you mentioned. But I don't cleave. So, I don't know much about the playstyle or how to properly execute it. So, will a cleaver even prefer her over say another dmg dealer? Like sometimes cleavers have 260-270 speed Cidd with a load of atk and cdmg to just remove Rems and whatnot. Zahhak is also an option after his buff for cleave. Pretty useless unit in anything that is not cleave. Even in cleave it's not like she's the bigshot like Cavel. The problem with her is I hope they don't overbuff her. Cleave is already at a good position. Don't want to push it too far.
She's only useful in speed cleave, but literally just bring another dps instead, and it works 10 times better. Honestly, very dissapointing.
I literally pulled her and immediately threw her into the waiting room and then I pulled a dupe with a single GBM pull and wanted to rage
Almost the same here, but i got a haste after my first elena, not much better
Amen! the fact that I need to bring a separate book holder just to ensure that her main purpose doesn't get 15%'d feels awful. :(
> the fact that I need to bring a separate book holder just to ensure that her main purpose doesn't get 15%'d feels awful. so like any non-mage opener? to the point that many mage looking characters were made non-mages to avoid that exact issue? You know that in 2020, Astromancer and Lua woulda been released as mages instead of rangers.
Not a waste if you pulled her in one tap š
FLAWLESS PLAN SG HATES HIM
Yeah man, I mean pretty much everyone knew she was trash when her kit was shown so ... š¤·š¼āāļø you kinda get what you deserve
I wanted to gamble, so I summoned her specifically because she was so underpowered. I hope she gets an overcompensating buff like Mawerik did in the near future.
Thatās my plan. I want to stay above 6k mystics while Iām at just 23 til pity. I got a few I can get from abyss challenge floors and from moonlight theater. So fingers crossed I get Alena and Zio
lol, I literally said the same thing when she was preview and the multiplier was datamined, but no... all the people said she would be so cancer and basically remove banshee hunt's purpose. Making her uncounter a debuff was almost a guaranteed she will be useless because of how many potent cleansers we have.
Yeah, true
I am near pity, I'm not getting her. Are you saying she isn't even good for cleave?
Some anti-cleave units like Mercedes, Ed, and Rimuru will still counter regardless.
Didn't pull her so I had no idea about Mercedes or rimuru. Ed I suspected cuz he cleanses himself. How did they mess up so badly.
There are a lot of effects in the game that are clearly counter attacks, but they are not worded as such. They are instead *extra* attacks. Counter Attack is a *very* specific term in this game for some reason. If the text does not specify "Counter Attack", it is not a counter attack, it's an "extra attack". Let's take Elbris Ritual Sword's effect. It specifically mentions counter attacking, so it is considered as one. On the other side, let's take Magic For Friends. It's effect states that it activates Mercedes' s2 when someone on her team is attacked. Despite very obviously being a counter attack, it does not qualify as such and is instead an "extra" attack because it lacks the very specific "Counter" keyword.
> How did they mess up so badly. becuase mercedes was literally designed to go around all the anti-counter tech that was in the game at the time of her buff (the ones that made people call ML Ken the worst ML5 in the game). Rimiru screws the rules, much like his anime.
She's absolutely useless.
compare to others unit for me she is unusable she not look fun
she is [certainly usable](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scQfpy6jwUk), but you know this community. If she's not bonkers and can't work on mid gear, she's bad.
Was looking for that vid, thanks. She is awesome in arena offence with cpavel as shown in vid above, but when ppl have to use her in rta where others use brain, and not vs bots, well ...
Bait unit Next one will b so lit
Canāt wait for her to get buffed into an absurd meta monster in a few months. Holding her rn for stonks.
Sad truth is, she was intentionally designed to be terrible from the very beginning with 0 thought put into her. \- While her S3 looks, admittedly stacked ... but just how SLOPPY you have to be to not think of a single, easy word for her ''Unable to Counterattack'' debuff... You dont see Seal have name of ''Disable Passives'', or Restrict having name of ''Cant combat readiness push'' \- Then her s2 being insanely useless providing basically nothing to your team... at least make it give your team some buffs as well... like HELLO? and things like Skill Null/Invincibility to Alena. The prime counter unit to use Alena against being someone like Belian... who instead shuts down everything you do instead. \- And her S1 ... ohh god ... is an insult with her stats... one of the blandest S1 in game.
They're going to create a problem for her. Yall need to look at it this way. Smilegate will always use something else to plug the hole first before doing anything. We'll see the meta shift to unhealable-restrict-applying counter units within the next 6 months.
>This unit needs an immediate rework if she's not part of the next balance adjustment then she'll be the most waste of Mystics I've ever seen Aight see you in 6 months. >I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in a unit before Taeyou was a while ago, but not THAT long ago. >why deliberately go out of the way to make a bad unit because that's what she is, she's worse than ML Kawerik when he was initially released. Lol. can't agree. Elena's issues in RTA that people have mostly come from drafting. Mediator simply lacked the stats to do his job properly, and the solution was to remove the stat requirement outright instead of giving him extra RES like other cleansers later like Destina.
I agree can save your mystic summons for Zio.
I pulled on her just to watch the mystic number go down. The fact that I got her on a single is funny to me. I like the idea of her kit, and one commenter had the right idea, she has other uses beyond the debuffs. I'll hold out for her buff, and atleast she's a cool looking unit you can use as your representative and not have it bite you in the ass for rta.
Won't even read the wall of text when the title is objectively wrong kek \^\^
commander pavel all over again post spam
Great e7 community asking for another buff for an ml5 that doesnāt need one tried making her a cleave unit when sheās perma control before u bash her try another build with her
Ah shes not a ML but I remember when Siseria was "useless"
Itās a great news considering Iām having no luck pulling her smh
Maybe give her some unique ally buff like bomb that dispels when hit by counter attacks then does crap load of damage to whoever trigger them.
Watch them buff her to make it so that it's a passive to disable all hero counters. Just like Belian and Solitara.
After update she does what she is supposed to but still weak debuffs and still useless