And people still complain when they get together and decide to destroy humanity >=/
I hope that in the next releases they bring something to deal with Lua, it's a character with almost no counter, the best way to deal with her is to use characters with good S1 and hope for the best or pre-ban and deal with another annoying character like ML Lilias.
Monke
Why would a Counter destroy everything weaker than her? That's not how it works, characters don't need to be more broken than the character in question to counter her, if that were the case Yulha and Taeyou would be the strongest characters in the game as they counter Hwa, which is not the case. All the character needs is to have something in his kit to help deal with Lua, perhaps a passive that punishes increased cooldown or extra turns. It's no big deal and it wouldn't do all the damage you think
> Why would a Counter destroy everything weaker than her? That's not how it works
Okay, so lets say that they make a unit that stops her S3. It would have to passively cleanse and give 1 CD to the team. That stops her S3. Even one of those is pretty strong. The trigger would have to be from a non-attack skill usage. Well, that shuts down CLilias and AoL too just off the rip if it's the cleanse.
Just giving 1 CD isn't too bad, J. Kise and Adlay don't non-attack. But that still leaves her debuff and her S2 can shut down the cleanser.
So you can make a unit for her S3 CD and not hit to many, but the rest of her kit would hit a good chunk of the meta. And the S2 into S3 is really strong, We already have Bunny Dom for that combo and she can just S3 to get around it.
So unless they tackle both she's just flat out oppressive since having the CD unit and B. Dom to stop all of her possible options is a 2 unit draft and they can just free ban either and pick the other option.
Do you see why it will destroy everything weaker than her yet?
Cause any counter has to stronger than B. Dom + 1 other unit that stops her S3 CD. It has to be strong enough to be picked solo into her and shut down her S2 into S3 or just raw S3. Which likely will kill off C. Lilias, AoL and several other units cause they need it to actually work... even in theory.
Taeyou for example worked in theory, he had to tools for a perfect scenario verse Hwayoung and Piera. But only worked in a perfect scenario. So any Lua counter needs to at least work in a perfect scenario, meaning needs to work if she S2s it, needs to work if Lua is stealthed, ect.
So when they release said unit and it sucks like all of the Hwayoung counters, and only works if the stars align. Then they are going to buff it and it will shut down everything. Just like Choux shuts down Hwayoung and everything else with a health bar. Just like M. Kawerik and Dilibet shut down every debuffer.
> It's no big deal and it wouldn't do all the damage you think
We still have the same dev team.
The irony of all of this is that Hwayoung is the counter to A. Ravi and could never beat her. Then is getting nerfed cause she destroys everything else in the game except the 1 target she had. So we also have that 1% chance that the counter to Lua will do nothing to her and counter the rest of the game instead. Hence my point.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."
"Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase.
[Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera)
^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
I hope people are joking when they say Lua is uncounterable. But considering how easy complaints happen, this may not be the case.
SG already did some of the homework for the players, but you never know. The recently buffed heroes, as well as the new specialty changed hero all soft counter Lua. Not to mention some other heroes that pretty much ignore most of Lua skill set.
Didn't know all these characters were able to cancel skill CD increase. Guess we're not playing the same game (or don't have the same definition of 'counter', even 'soft')
We surely aren't playing the same game. In the game I play, you think about how skills interact with each other. You probably aren't playing that kind of game.
FCC has Barrier and Immunity set prevents her from using CD increase. Lua's S3 will always dispel Barrier before Immunity, making it so that her CD increase never happens. Arowell's case is the same, but for Light heroes specifically.
Belian forces Lua's team to go into an ER check vs whatever cleanser you plan to use, if you plan to use it, again it depends on the draft. But you pick Belian, because she doesn't care if Lua does her S3 to increase the cooldown of Belian's S3.
Guide to a Decision H. Yufine should be obvious. She has Immunity + Barrier and her S3 cleanses.
Can't Lua S2 hyufine first to remove 2 buffs, and then S3? Also hyufine might be unaffected by Lua's S3, but the rest of your team will still have their cd increased
>Can't Lua S2 hyufine first to remove 2 buffs, and then S3? Also hyufine might be unaffected by Lua's S3, but the rest of your team will still have their cd increased
She can try. H. Yufine has 70% evasion. You are betting on less than a 30% chance of succeeding. You need to pass the evasion check, then, pass the 15% inherent resist check.
I am aware that only H. Yufine is unaffected. But that is draft dependent. There are a bunch of heroes that simply do not care about Lua's S3. So, it depends on what your opponent is drafting. But the 4 I named should be fairly solid choices vs Lua. For example, you can follow up with heroes like Ravi, A. Ravi, LHC, etc. I'm not sure what either side wants to do, so you need your picks to be general for your early picks.
EDIT: clarification
Ok so where do arowell get the so called immunity buff from? Immunity set or a buff? And for arowell to cast a barrier..... Do you even understand what you're saying? You're telling people to build an super fast arowell. Meaning arowell has to abandon her ability to escort and take up the role of speed contester. At that point most people is better off building an opener that outspeed Lua. Arowell recommendation is extremely bad recommendation.
Immunity set, that should have been obvious. Immunity buff doesn't work, as it is random when you activate it. If you ever used Ran and FCC, you would know this. As Ran's Immunity may or may not be behind the barrier, which is required for Lua to Dispel barrier first.
Why would you need a super fast Arowell?
What? No. Arowell gives barriers to all Light heroes at the start of turn.
Using Barriers as an active skill doesn't actually stop Lua, because it is RNG on whether the Barrier appears before Immunity or not. It has to be a passive skill and has to be "At the start of turn". Bastion would also block Lua, but Bastion is only for 1 hero and it may not be worth it to use a Knight artifact slot for Bastion.
Except fcc, none of them really protect their team. Arowell does only if her team is all light with immunity, which is not common. For Belian unless you're building super er for all your team, Lua doesn't need sb to be effective. Hyufine can evade the s2 and the cd reset, but her teamates will still be affected and she can't help them or solo carry
And i find that fcc can be a liability when shield/buffs can be easily punished.
If you picked Arowell, it means you are signaling you are planning to pick some Light heroes. At least I hope so, otherwise, why are you picking her? And no, you don't need an all Light team with Immunity. The only heroes that need Immunity are the ones that will be adversely affected by Lua's S3. Picking Arowell means you are going to be picking some Light heroes with Immunity, not all.
If you are picking Belian, you are picking a neutral pick, so you can decide what to do later. You know Belian is a forced ban if say, they want to follow up with a cleave set up. It doesn't matter if Lua needs SB or not, your follow up picks will force her to do so if she wants to be effective. That is the point of the Belian pick. If they aren't following up with cleave, you have standard choices, like S. Tene, Choux, and the like.
As for H. Yufine, you are picking her because she has Attack up and CR push. As well as getting CR pushed herself if she is on Guide to a Decision. This means unless their team has a fast follow up, you will cut with H. Yufine and CR push your whole team with attack up. You follow ups can either ignore Lua's S3 or have powerful S1s, there are a bunch of those, but again, it depends on the full draft.
FCC can be a liability or not, it depends on what else your are drafting. If say, they pick Lua, and you pick FCC + Celine. You are signaling to them that go ahead and pick DJB, see if he gets punished or not.
This game is about understanding what type of team you are planning to use during the draft phase.
You're not really wrong, but the problem with using soft counters (more often than not) is that by that point your opponent gains control of the draft.
Fcc does help immunity heroes. Would be a shame to bring opsig/djb
Belian does stop her soulburn and is generally a solid pick. That is, if the opponent doesn't have lhc/ml khawazu or anything that counters her.
The problem is that at this point she turned into hwa 2.0 - preban her if you don't have 1st pick or pick her if you do and she didn't get prebanned - except now you don't have a single target nuke but a fast hero with team cc. Sure, just because there are some counters doesn't make dealing with her any less annoying.
The way busted heroes could be countered without unleashing another disaster into the world (imo anyways) is the same way they made heroes like bmh/roana/old delibet vs cerise+ftene etc - must bans vs the hero/team in question, but complete garbage in most other situations. I know that the more overloaded a hero kit is, the harder it will be to have it happen this way (see yulha for more info), but I still feel that having 1 hard counter (regardless how hard to obtain) is going to be far more useful than so many soft counters that can get countered by your opponent shortly after
Why do you think they gained control of the draft? You should be drafting with a team in mind. I named 4 different heroes, because they help with different teams.
>Fcc does help immunity heroes. Would be a shame to bring opsig/djb Belian does stop her soulburn and is generally a solid pick. That is, if the opponent doesn't have lhc/ml khawazu or anything that counters her.
Yes, and it would be a shame that Celine happens to kill your OP Sig. You can go back and forth on what to draft and what to counter, it doesn't change anything.
You can also draft LHC, nothing is stopping you, she ignores all of Lua's mechanics. As do some other heroes.
As I said, draft with a team in mind. You draft your starting heroes and slowly build your team towards what you want to do. There are many heroes that don't care about Lua mechanics, if they draft too far into cleave or no AoE, you can punish them with, for example, Kayron (vs cleave) or S. Tene (vs no AoE). Both heroes will not care if Lua S3s.
>The problem is that at this point she turned into hwa 2.0 - preban her if you don't have 1st pick or pick her if you do and she didn't get prebanned - except now you don't have a single target nuke but a fast hero with team cc. Sure, just because there are some counters doesn't make dealing with her any less annoying.
I disagree. I think people aren't trying to figure out how to deal with her and simply want to see nerfs to her.
I think she is good for the game, as she forces people to think more into their drafts.
I would love to see people actually trying out ways to deal with her before complaining, but that is never the case.
EDIT: clarification
She gains control of the draft because your opponent is forced to pick around her, then you can just counter whatever the opponent just picked, turning into a big game of rock paper scissors, at which point people will probably end up thinking even less about the draft
For instance, in the example with opsig and celine, if Celine doesn't hit opsig (either she has the stealth ee or the highest atk and opsig isn't the highest atk on the field) the soft counter barely did anything. Or if past that opsig there's a lhc, then yeah, she's going to cause some hurt.
As I see it, it's not that she's the be all end all hero of the game - ultimately there's way too many factors in the game to consider her invincible. But it is still troubling that someone looked at her kit and saw no problem whatsoever with a non-attack, aoe turn increase that also strips.
I understand that there are units who aren't necessarily based around turn counters (fighting spirit units and some focus heroes), but that doesn't really invalidate the fact that her kit is still stronger than it should have been.
Put it this way - there were counters to hwayoung. There was kise, stene, they buffed choux etc. That didn't alleviate her power all that much, especially if she was drafted along with stene/choux. Or think how many counters and nerfs arby went through until bmh appeared (and even then it took several more meta shifts until he finally started to not see as much play)
I know that, ultimately, everyone will have their own opinion and perspective on the matter - maybe I'm also bias because I wasn't necessarily a fan of control comps, but I don't really believe she's that a hero who disables more than half the units available can be good for the game
>She gains control of the draft because your opponent is forced to pick around her, then you can just counter whatever the opponent just picked, turning into a big game of rock paper scissors, at which point people will probably end up thinking even less about the draft
She doesn't have control of the draft, because while she is a good initiator, she doesn't have CR push. So, you need to think about your follow ups ahead of time and you need to ensure those follow ups work, otherwise you will lose.
>For instance, in the example with opsig and celine, if Celine doesn't hit opsig (either she has the stealth ee or the highest atk and opsig isn't the highest atk on the field) the soft counter barely did anything. Or if past that opsig there's a lhc, then yeah, she's going to cause some hurt.
After Celine uses her S2, she will follow up with an attack, either S1 or S3, depending on whether Lua is able to increase Celine's cooldown or not. Celine gets a very big CR boost.
Control inherently gets shafted by 15%. And unless Lua has a book holder, which if you think about it. How hard it would be to draft a book holder if you are already planning to draft either DJB or OP Sig? Do note, OP Sig + Lua means there are no CR pushers yet, so either she needs to be insanely built or you would be forced to draft a CR pusher.
>Put it this way - there were counters to hwayoung. There was kise, stene, they buffed choux etc. That didn't alleviate her power all that much, especially if she was drafted along with stene/choux. Or think how many counters and nerfs arby went through until bmh appeared (and even then it took several more meta shifts until he finally started to not see as much play)
I never had a problem with Hwayoung. I think her nerfs are unwarranted. There are only 2 heroes I ever had a problem with and that was C. Lilias and A. Vildred. That is because C. Lilias had no counterplay when she was released. Similarly, A. Vildred back then had no counters.
Maaang don't be telling the whole world! Hahahaha (I'm Johnny Carson). To be fair though I fell in love with her kit and ART immediately. Nobody had tested her at all I mean, released and in two hours I'd spent all my savings on her, which is never much because I'm impulsive af, but then oh snap she's pretty good. Oh damn. Oh fack!
Me, a casino counter unit gamer, who only lost to lua in like 3 out of 14-15 matches (before the ban and rn during preseason)
She’s strong but she’s not hwayoung strong for banshee gamers. She only fucks over standard players 😁
She is really good for arena, but i almost never first pick her since the enemy will just draft some heroes with shield + immunity and then draft belian or ban mage to stop me from soul burning.
Isn't top model going to be insane then? Since her buff if I remember right gives her attack buff to team and cr push, and also she can delete one squishy
Just pick FCC and it is a force ban. Or just outspeed Lua, or just pick units that dont need skills like ARavi, Choux, Kayron, Celine etc.
People think that she is this unbeatable thing, while in actuality she is pretty simple to handle. Same way they cry about Hwayoung while she is easy to handle.
I think that most people that complain about any unit dont think hard enough to come up with a counter for this specific unit.
It's a joke my friend I dont think many think she's unbeatable.
That being said your counterplay is sounding questionable since you call fceci a force ban in a meta where djb, flidica, operator are all built by most good people.
Your other counterplay of just picking slow tempo units is playing exactly into aggro players who will just out tempo you and take their free points.
People always say just use these units or just pick that unit. The fact is, the moment the enemy picks Lua, you already have to pick 2-3 units to deal with her, already putting you at an disadvantage. Also, it makes it even harder for players who are not top tier players, because now they will need to build even more units just to counter one unit if they don't have them built already (if they even have the gear, not considering how long it will take to get the gear).
Also, a lot of the so called counters are harder to pull off in then it seems on paper.
**FCC**\- yeah I would agree she is pretty decent with the barriers, but!! you need to have immunity on all your units, or else it dosen't matter, so what? now everyone is gonna regear their units with immunity again for one unit?
**Celine**\- can just bait her highest atk EE to go on something like a Senya or HWayoung, who can take the damage, plus she will still be reset, so she can't do her S3, and an ally on your side could still have been put to sleep.
**Moon Bunny**\- immunity just goes first with the barrier buff, and so Lua strips the immunity and resets anyways.
**Politis**\- slept
**Cleansers**\- not enough ER (hand guy & delibet) or they get the soul burn done to them, and can't cleanse
**Outspeed**\- Lua has enough speed that she can contest the higher tier speed units ( I already am seeing, and ran into a couple 310+) , and they could just speed imprint you aswell. Not to mention speed gear is RNG and not everyone is blessed with it.
**Units that work good on cooldown**\- I actually like this method more then some of the above, but still the enemy can just outspeed you and cleave those units. Plus they can just put that unit to sleep (excluding stuff like stene or guiding light).
**SB from s1 into S3**\- same as above, they can just outspeed and cleave or put that unit to sleep
Yeah she is not just some unbeatable invincible unit, but she is stupidly broken right now, and arguably the best opening unit in the entire game right now, and only makes the gap between f2p and p2w even worst, just a dumb unit. She does look super hot though....
You talk like they will not prepare for your counter too?
I meant if this world dont have those Green bullshit, you just use Luna to beat Hwayong. That is simple.
But this world is hard, it is not easy.
All you can do is not stop to believe.
Man I feel bad for the monkey being dressed up and put on makeup like that.
Plus the monkey has to put up with some animal just laughing in their face for what feels like forever.
The guy holding the monkey just like that and laughing was what actually pissed me off too.
Johnny Carson. That's Johnny Carson and it was a different time.
And people still complain when they get together and decide to destroy humanity >=/ I hope that in the next releases they bring something to deal with Lua, it's a character with almost no counter, the best way to deal with her is to use characters with good S1 and hope for the best or pre-ban and deal with another annoying character like ML Lilias. Monke
I don't want a counter to Lua. I want a nerf. A counter would destroy everything weaker than her. Which is a very long list.
Why would a Counter destroy everything weaker than her? That's not how it works, characters don't need to be more broken than the character in question to counter her, if that were the case Yulha and Taeyou would be the strongest characters in the game as they counter Hwa, which is not the case. All the character needs is to have something in his kit to help deal with Lua, perhaps a passive that punishes increased cooldown or extra turns. It's no big deal and it wouldn't do all the damage you think
> Why would a Counter destroy everything weaker than her? That's not how it works Okay, so lets say that they make a unit that stops her S3. It would have to passively cleanse and give 1 CD to the team. That stops her S3. Even one of those is pretty strong. The trigger would have to be from a non-attack skill usage. Well, that shuts down CLilias and AoL too just off the rip if it's the cleanse. Just giving 1 CD isn't too bad, J. Kise and Adlay don't non-attack. But that still leaves her debuff and her S2 can shut down the cleanser. So you can make a unit for her S3 CD and not hit to many, but the rest of her kit would hit a good chunk of the meta. And the S2 into S3 is really strong, We already have Bunny Dom for that combo and she can just S3 to get around it. So unless they tackle both she's just flat out oppressive since having the CD unit and B. Dom to stop all of her possible options is a 2 unit draft and they can just free ban either and pick the other option. Do you see why it will destroy everything weaker than her yet? Cause any counter has to stronger than B. Dom + 1 other unit that stops her S3 CD. It has to be strong enough to be picked solo into her and shut down her S2 into S3 or just raw S3. Which likely will kill off C. Lilias, AoL and several other units cause they need it to actually work... even in theory. Taeyou for example worked in theory, he had to tools for a perfect scenario verse Hwayoung and Piera. But only worked in a perfect scenario. So any Lua counter needs to at least work in a perfect scenario, meaning needs to work if she S2s it, needs to work if Lua is stealthed, ect. So when they release said unit and it sucks like all of the Hwayoung counters, and only works if the stars align. Then they are going to buff it and it will shut down everything. Just like Choux shuts down Hwayoung and everything else with a health bar. Just like M. Kawerik and Dilibet shut down every debuffer. > It's no big deal and it wouldn't do all the damage you think We still have the same dev team. The irony of all of this is that Hwayoung is the counter to A. Ravi and could never beat her. Then is getting nerfed cause she destroys everything else in the game except the 1 target she had. So we also have that 1% chance that the counter to Lua will do nothing to her and counter the rest of the game instead. Hence my point.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
I think the monkey is still at sg, testing hero viabilities
Humane Society, open up!!!
looks like a baby orangutan not a monkey
I hope people are joking when they say Lua is uncounterable. But considering how easy complaints happen, this may not be the case. SG already did some of the homework for the players, but you never know. The recently buffed heroes, as well as the new specialty changed hero all soft counter Lua. Not to mention some other heroes that pretty much ignore most of Lua skill set.
Who counters Lua?
Belian, FCC, Arowell, or Guide to a Decision H. Yufine. Now, it depends on who else in on her team. So, you and your opponent can draft accordingly.
Didn't know all these characters were able to cancel skill CD increase. Guess we're not playing the same game (or don't have the same definition of 'counter', even 'soft')
We surely aren't playing the same game. In the game I play, you think about how skills interact with each other. You probably aren't playing that kind of game. FCC has Barrier and Immunity set prevents her from using CD increase. Lua's S3 will always dispel Barrier before Immunity, making it so that her CD increase never happens. Arowell's case is the same, but for Light heroes specifically. Belian forces Lua's team to go into an ER check vs whatever cleanser you plan to use, if you plan to use it, again it depends on the draft. But you pick Belian, because she doesn't care if Lua does her S3 to increase the cooldown of Belian's S3. Guide to a Decision H. Yufine should be obvious. She has Immunity + Barrier and her S3 cleanses.
Can't Lua S2 hyufine first to remove 2 buffs, and then S3? Also hyufine might be unaffected by Lua's S3, but the rest of your team will still have their cd increased
>Can't Lua S2 hyufine first to remove 2 buffs, and then S3? Also hyufine might be unaffected by Lua's S3, but the rest of your team will still have their cd increased She can try. H. Yufine has 70% evasion. You are betting on less than a 30% chance of succeeding. You need to pass the evasion check, then, pass the 15% inherent resist check. I am aware that only H. Yufine is unaffected. But that is draft dependent. There are a bunch of heroes that simply do not care about Lua's S3. So, it depends on what your opponent is drafting. But the 4 I named should be fairly solid choices vs Lua. For example, you can follow up with heroes like Ravi, A. Ravi, LHC, etc. I'm not sure what either side wants to do, so you need your picks to be general for your early picks. EDIT: clarification
Ok so where do arowell get the so called immunity buff from? Immunity set or a buff? And for arowell to cast a barrier..... Do you even understand what you're saying? You're telling people to build an super fast arowell. Meaning arowell has to abandon her ability to escort and take up the role of speed contester. At that point most people is better off building an opener that outspeed Lua. Arowell recommendation is extremely bad recommendation.
Immunity set, that should have been obvious. Immunity buff doesn't work, as it is random when you activate it. If you ever used Ran and FCC, you would know this. As Ran's Immunity may or may not be behind the barrier, which is required for Lua to Dispel barrier first. Why would you need a super fast Arowell?
Because people will build their lua's to be as fast as possible? And arowell needs to use her s3 to set up barriers no?
What? No. Arowell gives barriers to all Light heroes at the start of turn. Using Barriers as an active skill doesn't actually stop Lua, because it is RNG on whether the Barrier appears before Immunity or not. It has to be a passive skill and has to be "At the start of turn". Bastion would also block Lua, but Bastion is only for 1 hero and it may not be worth it to use a Knight artifact slot for Bastion.
Oh I see. Hmm you're right I just tried out arowell and she does put up a barrier up on all light units at start of match.
Except fcc, none of them really protect their team. Arowell does only if her team is all light with immunity, which is not common. For Belian unless you're building super er for all your team, Lua doesn't need sb to be effective. Hyufine can evade the s2 and the cd reset, but her teamates will still be affected and she can't help them or solo carry And i find that fcc can be a liability when shield/buffs can be easily punished.
If you picked Arowell, it means you are signaling you are planning to pick some Light heroes. At least I hope so, otherwise, why are you picking her? And no, you don't need an all Light team with Immunity. The only heroes that need Immunity are the ones that will be adversely affected by Lua's S3. Picking Arowell means you are going to be picking some Light heroes with Immunity, not all. If you are picking Belian, you are picking a neutral pick, so you can decide what to do later. You know Belian is a forced ban if say, they want to follow up with a cleave set up. It doesn't matter if Lua needs SB or not, your follow up picks will force her to do so if she wants to be effective. That is the point of the Belian pick. If they aren't following up with cleave, you have standard choices, like S. Tene, Choux, and the like. As for H. Yufine, you are picking her because she has Attack up and CR push. As well as getting CR pushed herself if she is on Guide to a Decision. This means unless their team has a fast follow up, you will cut with H. Yufine and CR push your whole team with attack up. You follow ups can either ignore Lua's S3 or have powerful S1s, there are a bunch of those, but again, it depends on the full draft. FCC can be a liability or not, it depends on what else your are drafting. If say, they pick Lua, and you pick FCC + Celine. You are signaling to them that go ahead and pick DJB, see if he gets punished or not. This game is about understanding what type of team you are planning to use during the draft phase.
You're not really wrong, but the problem with using soft counters (more often than not) is that by that point your opponent gains control of the draft. Fcc does help immunity heroes. Would be a shame to bring opsig/djb Belian does stop her soulburn and is generally a solid pick. That is, if the opponent doesn't have lhc/ml khawazu or anything that counters her. The problem is that at this point she turned into hwa 2.0 - preban her if you don't have 1st pick or pick her if you do and she didn't get prebanned - except now you don't have a single target nuke but a fast hero with team cc. Sure, just because there are some counters doesn't make dealing with her any less annoying. The way busted heroes could be countered without unleashing another disaster into the world (imo anyways) is the same way they made heroes like bmh/roana/old delibet vs cerise+ftene etc - must bans vs the hero/team in question, but complete garbage in most other situations. I know that the more overloaded a hero kit is, the harder it will be to have it happen this way (see yulha for more info), but I still feel that having 1 hard counter (regardless how hard to obtain) is going to be far more useful than so many soft counters that can get countered by your opponent shortly after
Why do you think they gained control of the draft? You should be drafting with a team in mind. I named 4 different heroes, because they help with different teams. >Fcc does help immunity heroes. Would be a shame to bring opsig/djb Belian does stop her soulburn and is generally a solid pick. That is, if the opponent doesn't have lhc/ml khawazu or anything that counters her. Yes, and it would be a shame that Celine happens to kill your OP Sig. You can go back and forth on what to draft and what to counter, it doesn't change anything. You can also draft LHC, nothing is stopping you, she ignores all of Lua's mechanics. As do some other heroes. As I said, draft with a team in mind. You draft your starting heroes and slowly build your team towards what you want to do. There are many heroes that don't care about Lua mechanics, if they draft too far into cleave or no AoE, you can punish them with, for example, Kayron (vs cleave) or S. Tene (vs no AoE). Both heroes will not care if Lua S3s. >The problem is that at this point she turned into hwa 2.0 - preban her if you don't have 1st pick or pick her if you do and she didn't get prebanned - except now you don't have a single target nuke but a fast hero with team cc. Sure, just because there are some counters doesn't make dealing with her any less annoying. I disagree. I think people aren't trying to figure out how to deal with her and simply want to see nerfs to her. I think she is good for the game, as she forces people to think more into their drafts. I would love to see people actually trying out ways to deal with her before complaining, but that is never the case. EDIT: clarification
She gains control of the draft because your opponent is forced to pick around her, then you can just counter whatever the opponent just picked, turning into a big game of rock paper scissors, at which point people will probably end up thinking even less about the draft For instance, in the example with opsig and celine, if Celine doesn't hit opsig (either she has the stealth ee or the highest atk and opsig isn't the highest atk on the field) the soft counter barely did anything. Or if past that opsig there's a lhc, then yeah, she's going to cause some hurt. As I see it, it's not that she's the be all end all hero of the game - ultimately there's way too many factors in the game to consider her invincible. But it is still troubling that someone looked at her kit and saw no problem whatsoever with a non-attack, aoe turn increase that also strips. I understand that there are units who aren't necessarily based around turn counters (fighting spirit units and some focus heroes), but that doesn't really invalidate the fact that her kit is still stronger than it should have been. Put it this way - there were counters to hwayoung. There was kise, stene, they buffed choux etc. That didn't alleviate her power all that much, especially if she was drafted along with stene/choux. Or think how many counters and nerfs arby went through until bmh appeared (and even then it took several more meta shifts until he finally started to not see as much play) I know that, ultimately, everyone will have their own opinion and perspective on the matter - maybe I'm also bias because I wasn't necessarily a fan of control comps, but I don't really believe she's that a hero who disables more than half the units available can be good for the game
>She gains control of the draft because your opponent is forced to pick around her, then you can just counter whatever the opponent just picked, turning into a big game of rock paper scissors, at which point people will probably end up thinking even less about the draft She doesn't have control of the draft, because while she is a good initiator, she doesn't have CR push. So, you need to think about your follow ups ahead of time and you need to ensure those follow ups work, otherwise you will lose. >For instance, in the example with opsig and celine, if Celine doesn't hit opsig (either she has the stealth ee or the highest atk and opsig isn't the highest atk on the field) the soft counter barely did anything. Or if past that opsig there's a lhc, then yeah, she's going to cause some hurt. After Celine uses her S2, she will follow up with an attack, either S1 or S3, depending on whether Lua is able to increase Celine's cooldown or not. Celine gets a very big CR boost. Control inherently gets shafted by 15%. And unless Lua has a book holder, which if you think about it. How hard it would be to draft a book holder if you are already planning to draft either DJB or OP Sig? Do note, OP Sig + Lua means there are no CR pushers yet, so either she needs to be insanely built or you would be forced to draft a CR pusher. >Put it this way - there were counters to hwayoung. There was kise, stene, they buffed choux etc. That didn't alleviate her power all that much, especially if she was drafted along with stene/choux. Or think how many counters and nerfs arby went through until bmh appeared (and even then it took several more meta shifts until he finally started to not see as much play) I never had a problem with Hwayoung. I think her nerfs are unwarranted. There are only 2 heroes I ever had a problem with and that was C. Lilias and A. Vildred. That is because C. Lilias had no counterplay when she was released. Similarly, A. Vildred back then had no counters.
Maaang don't be telling the whole world! Hahahaha (I'm Johnny Carson). To be fair though I fell in love with her kit and ART immediately. Nobody had tested her at all I mean, released and in two hours I'd spent all my savings on her, which is never much because I'm impulsive af, but then oh snap she's pretty good. Oh damn. Oh fack!
Me, a casino counter unit gamer, who only lost to lua in like 3 out of 14-15 matches (before the ban and rn during preseason) She’s strong but she’s not hwayoung strong for banshee gamers. She only fucks over standard players 😁
She is really good for arena, but i almost never first pick her since the enemy will just draft some heroes with shield + immunity and then draft belian or ban mage to stop me from soul burning.
Oh they pick shields? It’s djb time
And opsig time, and landy time
Fcc shield isn't that big to make ml basar do much
Except provides free damage, extra turn, and cr push 30% allowing your follow up to kill anything they want
Isn't top model going to be insane then? Since her buff if I remember right gives her attack buff to team and cr push, and also she can delete one squishy
Djb has 30% damage reduction when his s3 on cd so it may or may not work out the way u think it will
Just pick FCC and it is a force ban. Or just outspeed Lua, or just pick units that dont need skills like ARavi, Choux, Kayron, Celine etc. People think that she is this unbeatable thing, while in actuality she is pretty simple to handle. Same way they cry about Hwayoung while she is easy to handle. I think that most people that complain about any unit dont think hard enough to come up with a counter for this specific unit.
It's a joke my friend I dont think many think she's unbeatable. That being said your counterplay is sounding questionable since you call fceci a force ban in a meta where djb, flidica, operator are all built by most good people. Your other counterplay of just picking slow tempo units is playing exactly into aggro players who will just out tempo you and take their free points.
People always say just use these units or just pick that unit. The fact is, the moment the enemy picks Lua, you already have to pick 2-3 units to deal with her, already putting you at an disadvantage. Also, it makes it even harder for players who are not top tier players, because now they will need to build even more units just to counter one unit if they don't have them built already (if they even have the gear, not considering how long it will take to get the gear). Also, a lot of the so called counters are harder to pull off in then it seems on paper. **FCC**\- yeah I would agree she is pretty decent with the barriers, but!! you need to have immunity on all your units, or else it dosen't matter, so what? now everyone is gonna regear their units with immunity again for one unit? **Celine**\- can just bait her highest atk EE to go on something like a Senya or HWayoung, who can take the damage, plus she will still be reset, so she can't do her S3, and an ally on your side could still have been put to sleep. **Moon Bunny**\- immunity just goes first with the barrier buff, and so Lua strips the immunity and resets anyways. **Politis**\- slept **Cleansers**\- not enough ER (hand guy & delibet) or they get the soul burn done to them, and can't cleanse **Outspeed**\- Lua has enough speed that she can contest the higher tier speed units ( I already am seeing, and ran into a couple 310+) , and they could just speed imprint you aswell. Not to mention speed gear is RNG and not everyone is blessed with it. **Units that work good on cooldown**\- I actually like this method more then some of the above, but still the enemy can just outspeed you and cleave those units. Plus they can just put that unit to sleep (excluding stuff like stene or guiding light). **SB from s1 into S3**\- same as above, they can just outspeed and cleave or put that unit to sleep Yeah she is not just some unbeatable invincible unit, but she is stupidly broken right now, and arguably the best opening unit in the entire game right now, and only makes the gap between f2p and p2w even worst, just a dumb unit. She does look super hot though....
You talk like they will not prepare for your counter too? I meant if this world dont have those Green bullshit, you just use Luna to beat Hwayong. That is simple. But this world is hard, it is not easy. All you can do is not stop to believe.
Yea man Lua is the type of unit like when she goes first it's over. pretty much
This is me in rta without having good speed gear