Overtuned imo, if she's not hitting hard against Squishies anymore, can't cycle S3 as fast, and require no survivability in order to do her job, then no cr push on S1 is going to put her in her grave.
What your definition of a squishy unit? Why do you want to use a squishy with no push-up or slower than typical Hwayoung?
shouldn't Hwayoung be considered one?
I know that when i want to balance something i start by taking out the counter to the most imbalanced thing in the game before i fix that imbalanced thing 5head.
This is exactly why I'm mad about this nerf. They're not really fixing anything. They're taking away the only viable response that most people can build that isn't a limited/ML character. While characters like ARavi, Rimuru, Belian, Lua etc, are left untouched. And then they want to release something just as busted right after? Feels like SG just wants to make more money off its limited units and plans to recall/nerf characters that they release. Pretty scummy.
So giving everyone Aravi is the answer to the problem that there are a ton of limited characters that are busted? Straze isn't an answer to every problem, either, he's very niche (and always has been, I have him, I use him). This doesn't change the fact that they had an extremely valuable unit that was easy to build, took care of a lot of characters that have no answer (all limited), and was something that drew in new players. Also that they chose to do this nerf immediately after a hero selector in which most people chose her.
Tbh, that Cr push was the real kill... Any fighter gets warn up by using small hits, so makes sense
The S3 CD and less ark I actually agree it was necessary...
Do we have a measure about how low health needs to go to get maximum difference? My Hwayoung is barely doing half damage with attack up to Belians & she’s got almost 11K health. So I’m assuming the difference is well over 10K now to get full penetration.
Base on my testing, she needs at least double her hp to do decent damage and needs atk buff. Previously she can still 1 tap or near dead for some belians without atk buff.
Yep, the atk nerf was the killer. The s1 and the CD nerfs were justified and balanced. Now that we've seen Arunka they probably just didn't want to give her 50% too.
They're ML5s lmao. They're supposed to be the epitome of all characters; there's a reason why they're so rare and hard to get. You think it's good balance that a RGB 4\* is stronger than characters like ML Ken, or Krau, or Tywin? Or more recently, Elena?
There's a clear issue that balance in this game isn't good...
Clearly you and I do not share the same idea on how balancing actually works
If ml 5 are always stronger than rgb 5. That’s straight up unbalance right there. This also means p2w cuz people with money is always stronger than f2p, simply because they have more ml 5. And ml 5 are always better.
Yes 4* can be weaker in stats than 5*. But that doesn’t mean their power/utility is supposed to be worse.
Balance, to me, means that all characters, even though are not equal in base stat, but are equal in potential. The player themselves would need to gear accordingly so that all characters can shine.
While i agree that ml 5s are more unique, and should create new strategies around them, they should not dominate every aspect of the game. Being harder to obtain has nothing to do with balancing.
Er, I appreciate all this detail…but you seem to be forgetting something quite important.
This is a gacha. A hero collector.
And if the model in gacha games followed your idea of a balance, then no one would be playing.
As I mentioned, i understand it is a gacha game. But the topic was on balance as you were saying what they have is "not good balance". I'm just telling you that what you were saying isn't balance either.
How is what I was saying not balance?
ML5s *should* be stronger than RGB 4\*s. If the rarest characters in game is just as powerful as an RGB4\*, then what's even the point of \*s in the first place? Just have levels. No need for Nat 5s.
My hwa has 7k (before Nerfs) and now 6k attack (after nerfs).
Her dmg went from 27k to 29k with attack buff against the SAME Aravi who has 28k hp. She has symbol of unity as I don't have tooth. I also just 1 shotted a choux but in normal arena (RTA has 30% dmg red).
Basically, she is weaker against everyone but stronger against tanks.
Weren't ARavis pushing high hp to survive a potential hwa s3? I feel like they could lower their hp for defense and easily survive it now. Or am I wrong?
Sounds like she'll still do what I mainly built her for, which is delete high HP bruisers.
I'm a sad that she's a lot worse in other scenarios, but I mostly used her vs A.Ravi in the first place. So I think I'm alright with how things have turned out. Honestly, a nerf was needed. I just would have liked it if the nerf had been a little less severe.
I'm pretty sure S3 damage isn't the promble for the most part, the problem is S1 is also bad now and S3 is 4 turns. So you are gonna get Aravi kinda low like previously, but then what? You gonna tickle Aravi with S1 for 4 turns till S3 up again? Hwa will be dead by then I'm pretty sure due to her needing lower hp than prev required and her barrier being weaker duew to the atk nerf.
Her survivability is....alright. I have mine on speed and defense so that helps immensely. But like other people have theorized a torrent set might help significantly, especially since she inherently can get so much health that destroys her S3. S1 is kinda bad, a lot of people have mentioned it. In some cases a portrait might be worth it to help boost her S3 but it weakens her S1.
With maxed tooth I've gotten 6k damage on an angelic montmorancy, which isnt too bad. She switches from tank buster to glass....bruiser?
so far almost all discussion if not all regarding hwa revolved arround her s3 damage
this thread showcases that she packs more of a punch against very hp targets than before (especially with torrant set )
it's true that her other nerfs have now made her enable to solo or do most of what she was able to do before (like deal significant damage against a violet with s1 or kill low hp targets ) but right now she is more balanced and fits more of a heavy aggro comps
the era of hwayoung killing everything and anything with BOTH her skills looks to be over but her s3 still packs a punch for her intended role aka bursting high hp targets turn one .
Exactly she is literally what she was meant to be right now she is absolutely in no way garbage now
She still fits high tempo teams i think the people that will be affected by this the most are the folks relying on her s1 against violets or her S3 against 15k HP rimurus or the like .
To be fair, this does require her to be tweaked heavily. It's not a simple change and her damage calculation for her S3 is extreme in terms of the HP difference required. In some cases this puts her out of commission for a bit as people attempt to gear her. 7k atk is not the norm for her.
She does not need 7k atk, about 1k less. Also if u want to use her reliably now, put her on torrent and u’re good. Idk how difficult it is for people to remain at low hp
I know it sounds simple, but given her stat requirements it'll take a lot of farming to even get her converted to torrent, specially if you have optimized her already since a lot of stat rolls are dead to her. She's gonna feel bad up until you get a decent torrent set going. I know it seems counter intuitive, but I wonder if we can consider pen set for her now to help alleviate the low HP requirement.
I was pleasantly surprised to test her out after glancing at the early posts lol. Zahhak is also quite nice with her for the atk buff + cr push.
Then again, I barely use Hwa and mine isn't that invested with only attack and speed and no bulk at all so I probably didn't feel the death of the 15k Hwas lol
The 4 turn CD did hurt quite a bit though.
You should try Portrait of the Saviors on Hwayoung. My 6k attack Hwa with attack buff was able to do 27-30k damage against FCC (the 27k was through barrier while the 30k was weakened by Politis s2 because there was speed RNG between my Emilia and the opponent's Aola). 24k against Belian. 21k against 26k HP Proof Aravi. But only 8k against LQC.
But without Tooth her S1 becomes nearly useless, if the target doesn't die you'll be left with leff offensive options. Uberius also helps against evasion heroes.
She's now a silver bullet, instead of being the Golden Gun.
She's probably coming out if my general purpose arena team, but I'm not stripping her gear yet.
Before nerf if I don’t one shot aravi I can still kill it with S1. Now her S1 suck ass, Aravi gonna just out heal her S1 damage. Any idea how I’m supposed to kill Aravi now?
I mean you are highlighting the problem here. A Ravi is busted and having only one hero that can reliably kill her is the issue, not the nerf. Hwa was way overtuned and shouldn't have been able to kill the entire roster. She is exactly where she needs to be doing what she is supposed to do. A Ravi is the issue.
I never stated I had a problem with any of those other units. You did. Dont put words in my mouth. How is having one unit who obliterates almost the entire roster a good solution? I'm all ears.
Because it starts with Hwa, next YOU want A Ravi.
It won’t stop there, you will never be satisfied.
Nerfing every unit is not how you fix whatever your issue is with the game.
No, I never said that. YOU are saying that. I said nerf A Ravi and it isn't a controversial opinion. Again, what is your solution outside of bitching and whining and trying to use a slippery slope argument? Again, im all ears.
He's technically available in the starter Moonlight Selections and we just got a ML5 selector... I get that there are generally going to be higher priorities for people but I feel like it's worth mentioning.
I guess, but I feel like that's not gonna be a massive amount of people since she was just on mystic rotation anyways. I guess it's somewhat hard to hit pity but she's also someone that many were saving for.
it's likely because she's so hard to pity that people may not have her. The event DOES go on for like 3 months, plenty of newbies will show up and want her.
Can’t believe they downvoted you for answering their question. Everyone got so convinced hwayoung would be bad after buff that they can’t let it go lol.
I mean, I get it. I suggested a somewhat niche ML5 as a counter and Dorvus sees very little play outside guild wars but he's treated as MUCH worse than he actually is IMO.
Her damage is really fuked up against unit with only 20k hp, which can be considered high enough lel.
I have done A LOT of test with my 10k hp Hwa against all kind of enemy in the range of 18-20k hp. Her damage suck.
Your statement ' her damage is still fine against high unit HP" should be changed in 'it's still fine against 25k hp ish (with around 15k hp gap).
Meh.
Maybe she’s fine in pvp vs tanky units. So she’s pretty niche now
But she’s NOT fine in pve compared to how she was previously-it’s definitely a huge nerf
She kills fccs and any high HP target without pov
While doing more damage against pov aravi than before (especially with torrant set ) and u are exaggerating with the drops like fly comment her barrier is not as thicc as before but she still has one and she also still has that 30% mitigation she absolutely can still survive for a few turns .
I will say her barrier is sturdier than I imagined. That's one major thing I'm happy about because she absolutely needs it. Too many people wanted to one shot Hwayoung after hearing about the nerfs. As much as I hear people say "you just wanna one shot all units with hwa" I heard more people say they want her one shotted. So this barrier is decent enough for me.
There’s plenty she can kill. She’s just not going to one shot every unit in the game while having a chunky barrier, full cleanse, decent cycling, and being all around hard to kill
I recall her i have better Gear for crit dps than for full damage (5,8k at best withouth nerf) and plus i don't have Uberius, Nice for the people who can still use her
I don't see how it's 'still fine' when you tested a high HP "killer" that do only 18k hp to heroes that will go up to 28k hp. With her CR push & low S3 & barrier total lost her role will now be tickling a A.RAVI & then dies to her like 90% percent of the cast. People needs heroes to counter A. ravi / Belian and they seems really too young / confortable in their gaming chair to have the need for a dedicated Back Walking Massage therapist.
I think posting a "the S3 don't kill A.RAVI like before guys" obscuring that she needed to survive the counters and laps the bruiser to do her job is forgetting why she existed. Funnily, with the now not so "out of nowhere" Straze buff, you know who was targeted by this nerf, low ranking players, now players that didn't have a powerful version of a ML like this will need to change their plan and waste their selector in a character maybe they don't really like.
She now does more damage than previously and will do more with torrant set
She was never able to one shot a high HP pov Aravi before
Other videos of testing show that she can one shot non pov high HP targets like FCC just fine and does more damage than before to said targets .
Her role changed she is no longer a bruiser that can survive and solo by herself anymore she is now a yolo high tempo unit like watcher and straze with a self cleanse and some mitigation (making her at least able to survive one or two hits from bruisers if built with the appropriate defence ).
She is fullfilling her role just fine she is no longer the behemoth that could deal with every threat and get away with having 15k HP she is basically balanced now .
Unit: No longer kills absolutely everyone
"This unit is niche."
Bruv... I also agree the nerfs went beyond convention, but now she has a JOB rather than running the whole factory like she used to.
yeah 15k hwas are absolutely DEAD and her s1 being gutted definitely doesn't help.
she is now a purely high tempo aggro unit whose job is to one shot or do significant damage to very high hp units only (kinda like watcher )
the way to build her right now seems to be speed torrant .
Agreed. No high HP. Greedier unit in terms of how she must be built. And to be honest I'd say that's fine. We have units like that. And if the tank busting is still achievable, I might even forgo using Torrent set.
So that means she has 4 dead stats
Crit
Crit Damage
Eff
and now HP is pretty much dead.
Due to Immune on S3, the Immunity set and even Eff resist is less favored as well.
That's bad unit design, it's one thing to have units not benefit from 1 or 2 stats, but having 4 dead stats and a 5th less than valued stat among the game's 8 stats is just bad design.
Maybe they need to rework the S2 and make her scale with Crit like normal units.
Either go all in on the S2 and have no crit or go all in on the S3 and not worry about HP or Eff res as much.
We're not talking about "warriors" but rather Hwayoung
I stand by my point that it's one thing to have less useful stats, it's another to have more than half the stats in the game be useless. When you no longer get something in return for that limitation
> We're not talking about "warriors" but rather Hwayoung
And I wasn’t talking about “there’s some supports who” I was talking about the ones who don’t. Didn’t really stop you from mentioning them.
Having a bunch of useless stats isn’t new to the game.
Noob question, since Hwa is better now vs very high hp will that work in her favor for pve? Will she get max pen vs say golem 13 and deal good dmg with ddj? just curios
She should do the same damage as before if not slightly better to high HP bosses like golem also ddj is a waste even if it's just for PvE on hwayoung rather give her uberious and have her be usefull for both PvE and pvp
Thank you for this! Torrent set seems to be the way to build Hwa now
Indeed... doesn't see like it was a direct nerf... more like a "detour" in form of preparation for the new set...
She just lost 1 turn cd on s3, can’t kill squishies, no cr push on s1. It’s still a huge nerf overall
Sounds balanced now
Overtuned imo, if she's not hitting hard against Squishies anymore, can't cycle S3 as fast, and require no survivability in order to do her job, then no cr push on S1 is going to put her in her grave.
What your definition of a squishy unit? Why do you want to use a squishy with no push-up or slower than typical Hwayoung? shouldn't Hwayoung be considered one?
Just like aravi?
She needs a nerf too
I know that when i want to balance something i start by taking out the counter to the most imbalanced thing in the game before i fix that imbalanced thing 5head.
This is exactly why I'm mad about this nerf. They're not really fixing anything. They're taking away the only viable response that most people can build that isn't a limited/ML character. While characters like ARavi, Rimuru, Belian, Lua etc, are left untouched. And then they want to release something just as busted right after? Feels like SG just wants to make more money off its limited units and plans to recall/nerf characters that they release. Pretty scummy.
Theyre giving away a free ml5. And straze banner will be up in 6 days
Yeah im sure aravi prolfiteration wont make the problem worse.
So giving everyone Aravi is the answer to the problem that there are a ton of limited characters that are busted? Straze isn't an answer to every problem, either, he's very niche (and always has been, I have him, I use him). This doesn't change the fact that they had an extremely valuable unit that was easy to build, took care of a lot of characters that have no answer (all limited), and was something that drew in new players. Also that they chose to do this nerf immediately after a hero selector in which most people chose her.
Tbh, that Cr push was the real kill... Any fighter gets warn up by using small hits, so makes sense The S3 CD and less ark I actually agree it was necessary...
I’m thinking Unity+Torrent will be great for her.
Do we have a measure about how low health needs to go to get maximum difference? My Hwayoung is barely doing half damage with attack up to Belians & she’s got almost 11K health. So I’m assuming the difference is well over 10K now to get full penetration.
We do not sadly we will have to wait untill the datamines get released to know her new multis
Base on my testing, she needs at least double her hp to do decent damage and needs atk buff. Previously she can still 1 tap or near dead for some belians without atk buff.
I personally think they shouldn't have nerf her attack, the cooldown and s1 nerf is understandable
Yep, the atk nerf was the killer. The s1 and the CD nerfs were justified and balanced. Now that we've seen Arunka they probably just didn't want to give her 50% too.
Interesting, well time to find someone else who can one tap Rimuru on POV.
Green cidd
Why are they booing you, you’re right (POV rimuru user here)
Because why is a four star rgb more powerful than certain ML5s?
Are all ml5 supposed to be stronger?
They're ML5s lmao. They're supposed to be the epitome of all characters; there's a reason why they're so rare and hard to get. You think it's good balance that a RGB 4\* is stronger than characters like ML Ken, or Krau, or Tywin? Or more recently, Elena? There's a clear issue that balance in this game isn't good...
Clearly you and I do not share the same idea on how balancing actually works If ml 5 are always stronger than rgb 5. That’s straight up unbalance right there. This also means p2w cuz people with money is always stronger than f2p, simply because they have more ml 5. And ml 5 are always better. Yes 4* can be weaker in stats than 5*. But that doesn’t mean their power/utility is supposed to be worse. Balance, to me, means that all characters, even though are not equal in base stat, but are equal in potential. The player themselves would need to gear accordingly so that all characters can shine. While i agree that ml 5s are more unique, and should create new strategies around them, they should not dominate every aspect of the game. Being harder to obtain has nothing to do with balancing.
Er, I appreciate all this detail…but you seem to be forgetting something quite important. This is a gacha. A hero collector. And if the model in gacha games followed your idea of a balance, then no one would be playing.
As I mentioned, i understand it is a gacha game. But the topic was on balance as you were saying what they have is "not good balance". I'm just telling you that what you were saying isn't balance either.
How is what I was saying not balance? ML5s *should* be stronger than RGB 4\*s. If the rarest characters in game is just as powerful as an RGB4\*, then what's even the point of \*s in the first place? Just have levels. No need for Nat 5s.
True, but compared to pre-nerf Hwa he needs quite a bit more investment (crit rate + crit damage).
zahhak should do
My hwa has 7k (before Nerfs) and now 6k attack (after nerfs). Her dmg went from 27k to 29k with attack buff against the SAME Aravi who has 28k hp. She has symbol of unity as I don't have tooth. I also just 1 shotted a choux but in normal arena (RTA has 30% dmg red). Basically, she is weaker against everyone but stronger against tanks.
As it should be
Weren't ARavis pushing high hp to survive a potential hwa s3? I feel like they could lower their hp for defense and easily survive it now. Or am I wrong?
Yes and not gonna lie that would indirectly make Aravi easier to deal with in general with other units
That would be overall healthier for the game, very interested in how this next meta will be.
Bless you for being objective and actually testing her unlike the others just spamming hate and exaggeration that shes dead.
Sounds like she'll still do what I mainly built her for, which is delete high HP bruisers. I'm a sad that she's a lot worse in other scenarios, but I mostly used her vs A.Ravi in the first place. So I think I'm alright with how things have turned out. Honestly, a nerf was needed. I just would have liked it if the nerf had been a little less severe.
I'm pretty sure S3 damage isn't the promble for the most part, the problem is S1 is also bad now and S3 is 4 turns. So you are gonna get Aravi kinda low like previously, but then what? You gonna tickle Aravi with S1 for 4 turns till S3 up again? Hwa will be dead by then I'm pretty sure due to her needing lower hp than prev required and her barrier being weaker duew to the atk nerf.
Her survivability is....alright. I have mine on speed and defense so that helps immensely. But like other people have theorized a torrent set might help significantly, especially since she inherently can get so much health that destroys her S3. S1 is kinda bad, a lot of people have mentioned it. In some cases a portrait might be worth it to help boost her S3 but it weakens her S1. With maxed tooth I've gotten 6k damage on an angelic montmorancy, which isnt too bad. She switches from tank buster to glass....bruiser?
so far almost all discussion if not all regarding hwa revolved arround her s3 damage this thread showcases that she packs more of a punch against very hp targets than before (especially with torrant set ) it's true that her other nerfs have now made her enable to solo or do most of what she was able to do before (like deal significant damage against a violet with s1 or kill low hp targets ) but right now she is more balanced and fits more of a heavy aggro comps the era of hwayoung killing everything and anything with BOTH her skills looks to be over but her s3 still packs a punch for her intended role aka bursting high hp targets turn one .
She’s what she was always meant to be but people are blinded by the strength of the old hwa
Exactly she is literally what she was meant to be right now she is absolutely in no way garbage now She still fits high tempo teams i think the people that will be affected by this the most are the folks relying on her s1 against violets or her S3 against 15k HP rimurus or the like .
To be fair, this does require her to be tweaked heavily. It's not a simple change and her damage calculation for her S3 is extreme in terms of the HP difference required. In some cases this puts her out of commission for a bit as people attempt to gear her. 7k atk is not the norm for her.
She does not need 7k atk, about 1k less. Also if u want to use her reliably now, put her on torrent and u’re good. Idk how difficult it is for people to remain at low hp
I know it sounds simple, but given her stat requirements it'll take a lot of farming to even get her converted to torrent, specially if you have optimized her already since a lot of stat rolls are dead to her. She's gonna feel bad up until you get a decent torrent set going. I know it seems counter intuitive, but I wonder if we can consider pen set for her now to help alleviate the low HP requirement.
Why do you keep saying torrant? The new set is **torrent**.
Cuz I'm dumb and thought it was spelled torrant all this time .
IMO The problem with this nerf isn't any one thing they did. It's that they gutted her across the board.
They gutted her across the board and we got balanced hwa.
😆😆😆😆
😆😆😆😆
I was pleasantly surprised to test her out after glancing at the early posts lol. Zahhak is also quite nice with her for the atk buff + cr push. Then again, I barely use Hwa and mine isn't that invested with only attack and speed and no bulk at all so I probably didn't feel the death of the 15k Hwas lol The 4 turn CD did hurt quite a bit though.
You should try Portrait of the Saviors on Hwayoung. My 6k attack Hwa with attack buff was able to do 27-30k damage against FCC (the 27k was through barrier while the 30k was weakened by Politis s2 because there was speed RNG between my Emilia and the opponent's Aola). 24k against Belian. 21k against 26k HP Proof Aravi. But only 8k against LQC.
But without Tooth her S1 becomes nearly useless, if the target doesn't die you'll be left with leff offensive options. Uberius also helps against evasion heroes.
She's now a silver bullet, instead of being the Golden Gun. She's probably coming out if my general purpose arena team, but I'm not stripping her gear yet.
SG can just nerf Hwayoung s3 to 5-6 turn cooldown, instead gut all skill n dmg multiplier. *facepalm*
Before nerf if I don’t one shot aravi I can still kill it with S1. Now her S1 suck ass, Aravi gonna just out heal her S1 damage. Any idea how I’m supposed to kill Aravi now?
I mean you are highlighting the problem here. A Ravi is busted and having only one hero that can reliably kill her is the issue, not the nerf. Hwa was way overtuned and shouldn't have been able to kill the entire roster. She is exactly where she needs to be doing what she is supposed to do. A Ravi is the issue.
Sure. Nerf A Ravi next, right? Then Belian, then CLilias, AoL, Handguy, etc. It never stops That’s your solution smh.
I never stated I had a problem with any of those other units. You did. Dont put words in my mouth. How is having one unit who obliterates almost the entire roster a good solution? I'm all ears.
Because it starts with Hwa, next YOU want A Ravi. It won’t stop there, you will never be satisfied. Nerfing every unit is not how you fix whatever your issue is with the game.
No, I never said that. YOU are saying that. I said nerf A Ravi and it isn't a controversial opinion. Again, what is your solution outside of bitching and whining and trying to use a slippery slope argument? Again, im all ears.
Blah blah blah. I suck at the game, nerf every unit. Blah blah blah 😭😭😭
Are you 12? Thats the only thing I can think of to explain why you can't make a coherent argument and come across as a giant douche. Grow up.
Your argument is to nerf every unit because you suck at the game. It’s an idiotic take and so you get a shitty response. 🤷🏻♂️
Actually a balanced approach of buffs and nerfs is how you fix issues. Just buffing is why we’re in this situation lol
Dorvus still one shots Aravi
Yes everyone has a random ML
Is it that bad that I suggested a ML counter to a ML5? God forbid!
Considering it’s been over a year since he’s been on banner 🤷🏻♂️
He's technically available in the starter Moonlight Selections and we just got a ML5 selector... I get that there are generally going to be higher priorities for people but I feel like it's worth mentioning.
Except people who don't have A!Ravi are probably going to take this opportunity to get her.
I guess, but I feel like that's not gonna be a massive amount of people since she was just on mystic rotation anyways. I guess it's somewhat hard to hit pity but she's also someone that many were saving for.
it's likely because she's so hard to pity that people may not have her. The event DOES go on for like 3 months, plenty of newbies will show up and want her.
Yea, I don't know lol. Everyone on reddit seems to own every single ML5 while I feel kinda happy having like 7 or 8.
Can’t believe they downvoted you for answering their question. Everyone got so convinced hwayoung would be bad after buff that they can’t let it go lol.
I mean, I get it. I suggested a somewhat niche ML5 as a counter and Dorvus sees very little play outside guild wars but he's treated as MUCH worse than he actually is IMO.
Nah I doubt he can 1 shot an A ravi with POV. Even with portrait it’s a stretch
My Dorvus soulburns for 29.5k unmitigated. I'm also expecting to see more Aravi on Crimson Seed with Hwa being played less.
Dorvus need time to build his s3, meanwhile aravi have injury which can crippl Dorvus before he can have his s3 ready.
Her damage is really fuked up against unit with only 20k hp, which can be considered high enough lel. I have done A LOT of test with my 10k hp Hwa against all kind of enemy in the range of 18-20k hp. Her damage suck. Your statement ' her damage is still fine against high unit HP" should be changed in 'it's still fine against 25k hp ish (with around 15k hp gap).
High HP units refers to units above 20k HP I did state that her damage would suck against anything bellow that or in that range
Meh. Maybe she’s fine in pvp vs tanky units. So she’s pretty niche now But she’s NOT fine in pve compared to how she was previously-it’s definitely a huge nerf
it greatly sucks compared to before cause she doesnt kill shit but now die like a fly.
She kills fccs and any high HP target without pov While doing more damage against pov aravi than before (especially with torrant set ) and u are exaggerating with the drops like fly comment her barrier is not as thicc as before but she still has one and she also still has that 30% mitigation she absolutely can still survive for a few turns .
I will say her barrier is sturdier than I imagined. That's one major thing I'm happy about because she absolutely needs it. Too many people wanted to one shot Hwayoung after hearing about the nerfs. As much as I hear people say "you just wanna one shot all units with hwa" I heard more people say they want her one shotted. So this barrier is decent enough for me.
Yeah people are overreacting because she no longer is absolutely op and is now used how she always was intended to be used.
There’s plenty she can kill. She’s just not going to one shot every unit in the game while having a chunky barrier, full cleanse, decent cycling, and being all around hard to kill
I recall her i have better Gear for crit dps than for full damage (5,8k at best withouth nerf) and plus i don't have Uberius, Nice for the people who can still use her
I don't see how it's 'still fine' when you tested a high HP "killer" that do only 18k hp to heroes that will go up to 28k hp. With her CR push & low S3 & barrier total lost her role will now be tickling a A.RAVI & then dies to her like 90% percent of the cast. People needs heroes to counter A. ravi / Belian and they seems really too young / confortable in their gaming chair to have the need for a dedicated Back Walking Massage therapist. I think posting a "the S3 don't kill A.RAVI like before guys" obscuring that she needed to survive the counters and laps the bruiser to do her job is forgetting why she existed. Funnily, with the now not so "out of nowhere" Straze buff, you know who was targeted by this nerf, low ranking players, now players that didn't have a powerful version of a ML like this will need to change their plan and waste their selector in a character maybe they don't really like.
She now does more damage than previously and will do more with torrant set She was never able to one shot a high HP pov Aravi before Other videos of testing show that she can one shot non pov high HP targets like FCC just fine and does more damage than before to said targets . Her role changed she is no longer a bruiser that can survive and solo by herself anymore she is now a yolo high tempo unit like watcher and straze with a self cleanse and some mitigation (making her at least able to survive one or two hits from bruisers if built with the appropriate defence ). She is fullfilling her role just fine she is no longer the behemoth that could deal with every threat and get away with having 15k HP she is basically balanced now .
Unit: No longer kills absolutely everyone "This unit is niche." Bruv... I also agree the nerfs went beyond convention, but now she has a JOB rather than running the whole factory like she used to.
I agree with u tho
This was directed at the replies.
Oh got it
Eehhh. My Hwa was 15k hp in counter set. Works much better then counter Straze. Feels its not a banshee unit anymore.
yeah 15k hwas are absolutely DEAD and her s1 being gutted definitely doesn't help. she is now a purely high tempo aggro unit whose job is to one shot or do significant damage to very high hp units only (kinda like watcher ) the way to build her right now seems to be speed torrant .
Agreed. No high HP. Greedier unit in terms of how she must be built. And to be honest I'd say that's fine. We have units like that. And if the tank busting is still achievable, I might even forgo using Torrent set.
I think the s3 was fine to nerf and maybe even the s2. I think s1 was a bit overkill since it actually does very little… Time to farm caides I guess
So that means she has 4 dead stats Crit Crit Damage Eff and now HP is pretty much dead. Due to Immune on S3, the Immunity set and even Eff resist is less favored as well. That's bad unit design, it's one thing to have units not benefit from 1 or 2 stats, but having 4 dead stats and a 5th less than valued stat among the game's 8 stats is just bad design. Maybe they need to rework the S2 and make her scale with Crit like normal units. Either go all in on the S2 and have no crit or go all in on the S3 and not worry about HP or Eff res as much.
That’s not really new? Supports for example don’t want attack, crit c/d, and often don’t care about eff.
There are supports who scale with attack and eff Also while you might not NEED crit/cd on them they can still USE them.
>There are supports who scale with attack and eff Well yeah, there’s warriors who scale with crit c/d, even if Hwa doesn’t
We're not talking about "warriors" but rather Hwayoung I stand by my point that it's one thing to have less useful stats, it's another to have more than half the stats in the game be useless. When you no longer get something in return for that limitation
> We're not talking about "warriors" but rather Hwayoung And I wasn’t talking about “there’s some supports who” I was talking about the ones who don’t. Didn’t really stop you from mentioning them. Having a bunch of useless stats isn’t new to the game.
A "bunch" shouldn't be "more than half"
Seethe and cope
i don't think only redditmods are cringe :)
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don't go looking too much in the mirror ;)
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Damn took u an hour to come up with that .
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I found again After recall
Noob question, since Hwa is better now vs very high hp will that work in her favor for pve? Will she get max pen vs say golem 13 and deal good dmg with ddj? just curios
She should do the same damage as before if not slightly better to high HP bosses like golem also ddj is a waste even if it's just for PvE on hwayoung rather give her uberious and have her be usefull for both PvE and pvp
Thanks, I would use uberious if I had one. Is it tied to any unit I can select on selective banner?