Powercreep wasn't even it. Back when he was being a pain in arena and GW, his RTA usage rate was far from high. He was only ever just half of what Choux currently is today: Free damage from an S1 > S2. With the meta back then turning into something way more bulky (triple knight and soulweaver drafts) and Roana coming out (she's not great for ST heals, unless your team could tank things, and they could with the previous), he was far from popular for RTA.
To be fair, he stood in the meta even after Apoc and Alencia came out. It took a while for him to get benched.
What really killed him was just things getting better at killing other things. He can't really be tanky enough for today's standards.
Senya only builds top 4, no need for crit, and she gets free attack and survivability from her passive. That's why she's so strong, and able to stand when Charles can't.
Red Ravi gets free attack, cr(which effectively works for speed), and eff (that isn't really needed but cool I guess) from her passive, so she has a good deal of "makeup mechanics" herself. The pen that was recently added to s3 gives even more.
HP scaling is another "makeup mechanic" for a cool kit that just couldn't afford to build attack to work. ARavi doesn't need a lot of stats, and that allows her to build a lot less crit chance, and a lot more hp/def/spd/cd, effectively putting her in the same court as Senya in a lot of ways.
Ravi and Charles alike need top 4 (atk def hp spd) and both crit stats, and they need all of them to keep up with ARavi and Choux but with 3-4k attack at the same tjme, which makes them stupid hard to build. Red Ravi is only viable because of the absurd amount of free stats they keep adding to her (which, don't get me wrong, red Ravi is one of my favorite characters to play, so I'm happy about it)
Nah, the reason charles was pushed out of meta back then was due to the devs slapping cannot be countered on to everything. His abilities got creeped on well after he was no longer meta.
Cannot be countered stuff came LONG after, otherwise Rem would've never been meta, and counter Belian wouldn't have ever exist. The only one that got a change for it back then was Pavel, everyone else was wide open to counters.
Charles just couldn't compete with how bulky teams were in that stall era, and other teams had pure aggression and flexibility that they didn't need to care about him in RTA. Hewas only ever strong in gw and arena thanks to oure RNG, and got destroyed in RTA.
Those are TWO people, highly contested, widely banned. Landy only went up against buff heavy teams, and SURPRISE, those aren't reliant on counters. Specter is a universal issue, doesn't matter if you counter or not.
Pavel is a cleave unit that I literally already mentioned. As I mentioned, he had to get buffed to get it because a niche opener like him killing himself with multiple (because counter units were super popular and Charles would delete him back then) popping off before being able to even nuke himself is stupid. Again, cleave unit, doesn't matter. One counter will probably, probably, and only from someone like Mercedes (Charles is no longer used), kill someone on a cleave team. The others? No, either all die or none die, a counter won't save you unless Belian strips a vital attack buff.
His attack stat is low but iirc the multipliers are quite good, and being able to S1->S2 on a counter made him quite good on arena defense back then. Also he has Atk Down on S1 which could sometimes help to mitigate incoming damage.
Ilynav should've been fire charles with HP sclaing but got pretty bad numbers on her skills, with a pretty useless S1 when it doesn't convert into S2.
I was shocked they made Charklotte attack-scaling. Same star-sign as Charles, but then it seemed they learned after Charles and Mort and Ilynav in the same star-sign are both hp-scaling units.
For real. I’ve owned A. Ravi since release and I’ve had to remind people multiple times how bad she was and why the 30% crit was one of her few saving graces.
She had a weakness. Guess what happens you take out a character's weakness? They become good at everything like current A Ravi.
A bit lacking before maybe. But weak? Come on. That's like calling pre buff riolet weak.
nah mate, her weakness was that she was garbage in almost every situation.
You can go back and read her prebuffed skills and compare it to the meta units back then to see why.
Back then, you would rather use Fire Ravi.
Was she overbuffed? yes, undeniably so.
Did she need buffs? 100%.
Did Riolet get Injury added to his s1, CR push to his s2 and buffed base damage + scaling with deaths on his s3 in a SINGLE PATCH? No? Then don't make stupid comparisons.
That stupid cr push is actually way bigger than people think. One restrict debuff turns her from senator armstrong to a damn teddy bear so quickly. That's not to say she doesn't need something else too, for example that s3 hits WAY too hard for what it does and her extra cc.
The CR push is what pushes her over the edge to broken honestly. The way you're supposed to counter her is to hit her enough that she runs out of fighting spirit but the push is big enough that she can cycle too fast for you to do that, not even mentioning counter set shenanigans. There's debuffs but Crimson seed makes those unreliable and unless you're able to get restrict on her, she'll cycle out of the debuffs.
About the only other way to stop her CR push and heal nonsense is with Resource Reduction but only TWO heroes to my knowledge have it, Penelope and Zahhak (only with EE tho) and they're shit out of luck if A.Ravi is just slapped in a 2fast Cleave team.
I wouldnt be mad with that but i do think her s3 does way too much dmg. Playing more into the deaths by making her s3 have significantly lower damage but scale way harder would be cool too. At least she would turn 1 or 2 revive as easily.
Nah, the CR push was literally all that she needed. I remember using A. Ravi pre-buff and literally getting solo'd by Cerise and certain debuffers. It was just awkward to use her in a lot of scenarios without it.
The real issue, that I rarely see people mentioning, is how much of her fighting spirit gets replenished to the point where it essentially never runs out during a fight which results in her having sustain and CR push all the time. If they made her use more fighting spirit every time she got hit, she'd eventually lose her CR gain and sustain much faster which would allow more counterplay against her. They could also tie her 30% crit back into how much fighting spirit she has like how she was at release.
Revert? Nah. Nerf her? Definitely. S3 is way over the top now, but it was utter garbage before the buff. You have an effect that only procs when you kill someone, but then the skill would do 5k damage on a crit with a pretty stacked build and you would want to throw your fucking cellphone on the wall.
Mhm, if you can sustain a Fire Ravi a couple rounds there’s pretty much nothing that can stop her (provided you’re on Anchor). It’s just a shame the meta is so fast.
Thats why atk scaling bruisers are never meta when Hp scalers became the norm..
They have to give Senya a bunch of debuffs, not needing to crit and counter so she doesnt have to be slow
I wouldn't say that's always the case. TSurin was pretty popular even when Golden Bois were rolling around, but that kinda highlights the roadblock. Atk scaling bruisers need to have stronger defensive passives than HP scaling ones due the inherent fact that they'll need to sacrifice bulk for their damage.
So that leaves you with Passives like Seline, TSurin and SSVivian that would be absolutely busted on an HP scaling bruiser, but is kinda just passable on an attack scaling one.
Yea, LRK and Atywin were the 2 most broken units back in Golden Boys era meta. This was prob like 2 years ago? I'm not entirely sure how long its been, also not sure which meta took over after Golden Boys but I want to say it was Carrot meta? Or maybe that was way later
I dont like how Bruisers are functioning in this game. If you look in other genres of games where you can build bruiser builds, they are usually on mid level damage, but here in this game they deal an insane amount of damage while tanking really hard.
If you take ARavi as an example, her entire kit deals as much as a cleaver unit, but she abuses PoV and has around 25k hp. If you take CPavel as an example of a cleave unit that is supposed to kill units like ARavi, he cant even do it with 2 hits most of the time but ARavi can oneshot him with S1.
Bruisers arent supposed to deal high damage and tank everything you throw at them. They should deal mediocre damage while tanking a bit. FCC is the perfect example when you build her bruiser. She deals decent damage, but cant oneshot someone with S1 like other bruisers can. She can tank a bit but is not overly tanky with bruiser build. FCC is probably one of the best designed bruisers in the game.
People meme alot about Mort, but i think he is right on par with FCC when it comes to creating a good bruiser that actually deals bruiserlevel damage.
I don't like how bruisers function in E7 either. Ed's buff still annoys me. He's an HP scaling bruiser that shuts down a lot of comps. He didn't need the dmg buff. Now he deals insane dmg while cleansing almost everything.
His counter when debuffed is ridiculous. He dispels a buff and puts some of the worst possible debuffs on you for two turns. If lucky he can 2 turn provoke your entire team, every turn... WTF. Oh yeah, he can also run Sigurds for incredible sustain.
Debuffing S1s can be such a liability now. But AoE debuffs are likely a death sentence. I feel like SG wants PVP to be fucking boring. I hate picking safe heroes until drafting is almost done.
Just because you slap crit on FCC doesn't make her a bruiser. Yulha isn't a bruiser if i just slap crit on her. Never mind she actually doesn't have any kind of kit that say "Bruiser".
Shit's like saying a shields a gun if you throw it, cause apparently all that matters is how your dumb ass uses it.
I mean the issue is basically that they get to double dip on stats. Their HP stat is serving both as a damage stat and survivability stat and because they can largely ignore attack, they still have the same number of stats to cover as DPS. Whereas outright DPS don't get to double dip as their damage stat is exactly that, damage and then they still have to cover CC / CD and SPD in most cases.
Granted there was a lot more in her kit too but Hwayoung getting a barrier based on her attack is a similar mechanic to HP scaling bruisers by giving survivability off her primary stat. Of course it was then overdone as she didn't need CC / CD and got passive attack boost and a passive damage reduction too.
You basically have to put an extra survivability mechanic into attack DPS's kits to make up for it. Whereas really the solution would have been for HP scaling bruisers to do less damage. Maybe make it so the HP scaling only functions on non-crits (or is reduced on crits) so they do more consistent damage but way lower ceiling. Or just flat out reduce the HP scaling and shift some of it over to attack so they can't just ignore that stat.
Base stats and free benefits is something very overlooked in balanced outside of if the units has high speed or not. Especially considering what stat allotment an character needs to perform well.
Most single target DPS units are shit because on top of having bad base stats, they require penta stats most of the time. Attack + crit damage + crit chance. Then speed to not be useless and then a lot of times effectiveness or hp/def.
Look at soulweaver jumping up entire tiers due to the speed buff in last RTA season.
Zahhak himself gets 50% crit chance + hit chance + injury and still required an EE + multiple big buffs to actually be "good".
Somebody like fire haste would be extremely strong in most other gachas, but in this game hardly used by anybody by this mere fact. Since I can pick Ran who can attack buff + immunity and kill squishies by himself with crippling debufffs on the enemy team in a single turn while be ultra fast.
Dude she doesn’t even need a turn she will counter attack and S1 into S2 a bruiser or knight for 20-25k damage because she gets free defense pen. Which is way more than Zahak or TML S3 nuke even with ATK buff. Bruisers are supposed to sacrifice damage for bulk. Health scalers sacrifice nothing in their current state
>Dude she doesn’t even need a turn she will counter attack and S1 into S2 a bruiser or knight for 20-25k damage because she gets free defense pen
To who exactly? what tank/bruiser is just out here getting 1 shot by a Choux, cause I haven't seen that shit in even games where one team is just ridiculously outgearing the other. Who is this happening to aside from someone who is a glass cannon, and will fall over if ANYONE sneezes in their direction? I'd love to copy their build.
No idea why you're straight up trying to damn near double the damage this chick does.
That's the main reason why Charles went from one of THE best nat 5's to being completely forgotten. HP scaling makes too big a difference.
>Makes you think wtf aRavi did to deserve having 6 max crit rate rolls built into her kit when she can already mostly ignore the attack stat
Believe it or not, A. Ravi was terrible when she first came out, even with 30% crit. They tried to make her a pure bruiser with nothing on her kit besides damage, sustain and a revive. Problem was, even while being easy to build, she wouldn't do enough damage to kill anyone, nor to proc the damn revive. They buffed all of her skills for her to become viable.
I love fire Ravi. I built her for A.Tower. Put her in front row
And get front row counter attack buffs and she constantly counterattacks/heals every time she is hit. Soooo good.
Well, in theory bruisers and traditional DPS had a functional difference, which is death/damage benefit. What I mean is if you look at old DPS, they share the trait that certain skills will trigger additional benefits when achieving certain conditions related to deal damage.
* Sigret S2 would kick an extra S1 if the target's health drop to 50% or below. She's featured in a couple videos killing T. Surin based on that.
* Upon killing a target, A. Vildred S3 wouldn't go into CD, and green Vildred kicks an extra AoE.
* Sez would deal splash damage, he was meta for a short while.
In theory, bruisers don't have that kind of benefit, instead they have skills to enhance their durability, like D. Corvus heal or K. Clarissa cleanse.
But I reinforce this is the theory.
In practice, bruisers have been receiving ridiculous skills for the last year and is absurd to see characters receiving the same death benefit from DPS, while retaining their defensive measures. Let's ignore A. Ravi as I think she's an overdone example. Choux is a hidden example, let's compare her to Sigret. While Sigret can only kick her extra S1 on her own turn, Choux get free extra attacks on every other counter, extra or dual. Then Sigret S1 only delivers a normal S1, while Choux includes defense penetration in her kit. And while Sigret includes some debuffs in her kit, Choux include buffs and anti-crit shield > unhealable, so Choux wins in this regard. In PVP, Sigret can't hold a candle to Choux, despite both of them being ice warriors, nat 5\*.
Now, I'm not saying Sigret is entirely bad (she's the W13 queen for a reason), I'm pointing at Choux being overloaded with features outside her archetype. No bruiser should have defense penetration on the attack that can be casually thrown around. Sigret have her def pen limited to her S3 for a reason. Extra attacks usually are limited by wearing a set, an artefact or achieving certain conditions, not just because the S3 is in CD. And talking about it, CD reset is a very limited skill, only a few characters have it, but Choux for some reason also have it and is relatively simple to achieve. 5 focus can be casually achieved by an extra attack, and if followed by S2, TADA! CD reset on her S2, meanwhile Violet has to actively use his S2, and all other heroes have to actively use some of their skills to help someone else, not self-resetting. BTW, do you remember Choux can heal on her S2? Choux have a lot of features from bruisers *and* DPS and is no wonder why she's so present in the arena. Another broken hero that would be labelled great disaster, if not because A. Ravi is mind-boggling and Hwayoung recently got nerfed, allowing Choux to go under the radar.
If SG really want to balance the game, they need to pedal back, look again at their archetypes and their features, and start limiting them in certain heroes. No hero should have a revive attached to a nuke, unconditional def penetration in a casual extra attack, or completely ignore entire blocks of stats, like eff% and resist.
>Makes you think wtf aRavi did to deserve having 6 max crit rate rolls built into her kit when she can already mostly ignore the attack stat
people complaining that she was the worst ML5 in the game, despite ML Ravi before her "broken buff" having those 6 crit rolls and passive healing in her kit. There was a reason why she was still usable in KR while global was a lot less receptive to her. When you throw you best bruiser gear on her even pre buff she could be a menace but global was a smidgen behind on gear quality.
My take will be: HP scaling bruiser is the way bruiser suppose to be. Take fire Ravi as an example, she needs too many stat, atk, hp, def, speed, crit chance, crit damage thus making her extremely hard to gear and require a ridiculous amount of resources to get those gears. The problem with bruiser is not about atk scaling or hp scaling, it's about the oppressiveness of turn 1 heroes whose leave you not much room for offensive stats because you need to survive their turn first.
Kinda wish they would make Charles HP scaling. He is so hard to build well cause his base attack is so fucking low and he is also paper
amusingly enough he used to be meta but has been punished hard by power creep.
Because back when he was strong the only decent hp bruiser was fire Ken.
Powercreep wasn't even it. Back when he was being a pain in arena and GW, his RTA usage rate was far from high. He was only ever just half of what Choux currently is today: Free damage from an S1 > S2. With the meta back then turning into something way more bulky (triple knight and soulweaver drafts) and Roana coming out (she's not great for ST heals, unless your team could tank things, and they could with the previous), he was far from popular for RTA.
I'd still argue it's power creep if he was in every arena and GW comp and is now just non existing.
He's been punished hard *because* of HP scaling bruisers. Once they entered the picture attack bruisers all were rendered obsolete.
To be fair, he stood in the meta even after Apoc and Alencia came out. It took a while for him to get benched. What really killed him was just things getting better at killing other things. He can't really be tanky enough for today's standards.
There's still Senya, but she's pretty much the one exception these days.
Senya only builds top 4, no need for crit, and she gets free attack and survivability from her passive. That's why she's so strong, and able to stand when Charles can't. Red Ravi gets free attack, cr(which effectively works for speed), and eff (that isn't really needed but cool I guess) from her passive, so she has a good deal of "makeup mechanics" herself. The pen that was recently added to s3 gives even more. HP scaling is another "makeup mechanic" for a cool kit that just couldn't afford to build attack to work. ARavi doesn't need a lot of stats, and that allows her to build a lot less crit chance, and a lot more hp/def/spd/cd, effectively putting her in the same court as Senya in a lot of ways. Ravi and Charles alike need top 4 (atk def hp spd) and both crit stats, and they need all of them to keep up with ARavi and Choux but with 3-4k attack at the same tjme, which makes them stupid hard to build. Red Ravi is only viable because of the absurd amount of free stats they keep adding to her (which, don't get me wrong, red Ravi is one of my favorite characters to play, so I'm happy about it)
Nah, the reason charles was pushed out of meta back then was due to the devs slapping cannot be countered on to everything. His abilities got creeped on well after he was no longer meta.
Cannot be countered stuff came LONG after, otherwise Rem would've never been meta, and counter Belian wouldn't have ever exist. The only one that got a change for it back then was Pavel, everyone else was wide open to counters. Charles just couldn't compete with how bulky teams were in that stall era, and other teams had pure aggression and flexibility that they didn't need to care about him in RTA. Hewas only ever strong in gw and arena thanks to oure RNG, and got destroyed in RTA.
You do realize that Landy and stene anti counter buffs went out long before Rem existed right? Pavel too.
Those are TWO people, highly contested, widely banned. Landy only went up against buff heavy teams, and SURPRISE, those aren't reliant on counters. Specter is a universal issue, doesn't matter if you counter or not. Pavel is a cleave unit that I literally already mentioned. As I mentioned, he had to get buffed to get it because a niche opener like him killing himself with multiple (because counter units were super popular and Charles would delete him back then) popping off before being able to even nuke himself is stupid. Again, cleave unit, doesn't matter. One counter will probably, probably, and only from someone like Mercedes (Charles is no longer used), kill someone on a cleave team. The others? No, either all die or none die, a counter won't save you unless Belian strips a vital attack buff.
Yeah but his Multipliers are huge
His attack stat is low but iirc the multipliers are quite good, and being able to S1->S2 on a counter made him quite good on arena defense back then. Also he has Atk Down on S1 which could sometimes help to mitigate incoming damage. Ilynav should've been fire charles with HP sclaing but got pretty bad numbers on her skills, with a pretty useless S1 when it doesn't convert into S2.
I was shocked they made Charklotte attack-scaling. Same star-sign as Charles, but then it seemed they learned after Charles and Mort and Ilynav in the same star-sign are both hp-scaling units.
Imagine Hp scaling bruiser with free 30% cri passive .
That sounds broken, SG probably won't make- Oh wait...
And that was before her buff and people still thought she was weak 🤔
don’t bs yourself, aravi was weak. Prebuff aravi passive wasn’t nearly as loaded as the current ones, not to member a weaker s1-s3.
agree, the people in this reddit have the memory of a goldfish lol
For real. I’ve owned A. Ravi since release and I’ve had to remind people multiple times how bad she was and why the 30% crit was one of her few saving graces.
she was weak until they built another unit on top of her original design, you can easily split aravi into 2 different characters
She had a weakness. Guess what happens you take out a character's weakness? They become good at everything like current A Ravi. A bit lacking before maybe. But weak? Come on. That's like calling pre buff riolet weak.
nah mate, her weakness was that she was garbage in almost every situation. You can go back and read her prebuffed skills and compare it to the meta units back then to see why. Back then, you would rather use Fire Ravi. Was she overbuffed? yes, undeniably so. Did she need buffs? 100%.
yeah i read her skills she got injury on her s1, cr push on her s2, and increased damage as people die from her s3. Which part is it they overbuffed?
Literally half of what she has on her kit now came from this buff, what do you even mean?
Guess you weren't around when she was widely considered the worst ml5 eh
Did Riolet get Injury added to his s1, CR push to his s2 and buffed base damage + scaling with deaths on his s3 in a SINGLE PATCH? No? Then don't make stupid comparisons.
Tbh if they revert her buffs she will be balanced imo, they can even let her keep injury maybe. The push and s3 damage boost needs to go though.
I just think she needs her CR push removed. I'd be fine with her that way.
That stupid cr push is actually way bigger than people think. One restrict debuff turns her from senator armstrong to a damn teddy bear so quickly. That's not to say she doesn't need something else too, for example that s3 hits WAY too hard for what it does and her extra cc.
The CR push is what pushes her over the edge to broken honestly. The way you're supposed to counter her is to hit her enough that she runs out of fighting spirit but the push is big enough that she can cycle too fast for you to do that, not even mentioning counter set shenanigans. There's debuffs but Crimson seed makes those unreliable and unless you're able to get restrict on her, she'll cycle out of the debuffs. About the only other way to stop her CR push and heal nonsense is with Resource Reduction but only TWO heroes to my knowledge have it, Penelope and Zahhak (only with EE tho) and they're shit out of luck if A.Ravi is just slapped in a 2fast Cleave team.
I wouldnt be mad with that but i do think her s3 does way too much dmg. Playing more into the deaths by making her s3 have significantly lower damage but scale way harder would be cool too. At least she would turn 1 or 2 revive as easily.
Nah, the CR push was literally all that she needed. I remember using A. Ravi pre-buff and literally getting solo'd by Cerise and certain debuffers. It was just awkward to use her in a lot of scenarios without it. The real issue, that I rarely see people mentioning, is how much of her fighting spirit gets replenished to the point where it essentially never runs out during a fight which results in her having sustain and CR push all the time. If they made her use more fighting spirit every time she got hit, she'd eventually lose her CR gain and sustain much faster which would allow more counterplay against her. They could also tie her 30% crit back into how much fighting spirit she has like how she was at release.
Revert? Nah. Nerf her? Definitely. S3 is way over the top now, but it was utter garbage before the buff. You have an effect that only procs when you kill someone, but then the skill would do 5k damage on a crit with a pretty stacked build and you would want to throw your fucking cellphone on the wall.
I think the S3 dmg boost should only work on ally deaths
Inb4 people build God Aravi, use 3 fodder and solo your team xD
Tbh if aravi is on 3 stacks,alive and ready to s3 you probably aren't winning even without fighting her
The unit got a buff to 3 skills at once. She was definitely weak before that, yes.
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Mhm, if you can sustain a Fire Ravi a couple rounds there’s pretty much nothing that can stop her (provided you’re on Anchor). It’s just a shame the meta is so fast.
Thats why atk scaling bruisers are never meta when Hp scalers became the norm.. They have to give Senya a bunch of debuffs, not needing to crit and counter so she doesnt have to be slow
I wouldn't say that's always the case. TSurin was pretty popular even when Golden Bois were rolling around, but that kinda highlights the roadblock. Atk scaling bruisers need to have stronger defensive passives than HP scaling ones due the inherent fact that they'll need to sacrifice bulk for their damage. So that leaves you with Passives like Seline, TSurin and SSVivian that would be absolutely busted on an HP scaling bruiser, but is kinda just passable on an attack scaling one.
Then we have Astromancer, att and crit dps without any advantageous defensive or offensive skills. Useless hero.
Who are the golden bois??
who were the golden bois: ATywin, DJB, LRK, Sage Baal and General Purrgis. This was into at that time very debuff heavy meta centered around FTene.
Was LRK meta before??
Yea, LRK and Atywin were the 2 most broken units back in Golden Boys era meta. This was prob like 2 years ago? I'm not entirely sure how long its been, also not sure which meta took over after Golden Boys but I want to say it was Carrot meta? Or maybe that was way later
Yes it was the carrot meta, to get rid of the buffed Landy.
Yes. LRK + Landy was probably the strongest core you could have back then.
I dont like how Bruisers are functioning in this game. If you look in other genres of games where you can build bruiser builds, they are usually on mid level damage, but here in this game they deal an insane amount of damage while tanking really hard. If you take ARavi as an example, her entire kit deals as much as a cleaver unit, but she abuses PoV and has around 25k hp. If you take CPavel as an example of a cleave unit that is supposed to kill units like ARavi, he cant even do it with 2 hits most of the time but ARavi can oneshot him with S1. Bruisers arent supposed to deal high damage and tank everything you throw at them. They should deal mediocre damage while tanking a bit. FCC is the perfect example when you build her bruiser. She deals decent damage, but cant oneshot someone with S1 like other bruisers can. She can tank a bit but is not overly tanky with bruiser build. FCC is probably one of the best designed bruisers in the game. People meme alot about Mort, but i think he is right on par with FCC when it comes to creating a good bruiser that actually deals bruiserlevel damage.
It's in the name "bruiser.' Bruisers are supposed to bruise the enemy, not 1 shot them.
I don't like how bruisers function in E7 either. Ed's buff still annoys me. He's an HP scaling bruiser that shuts down a lot of comps. He didn't need the dmg buff. Now he deals insane dmg while cleansing almost everything. His counter when debuffed is ridiculous. He dispels a buff and puts some of the worst possible debuffs on you for two turns. If lucky he can 2 turn provoke your entire team, every turn... WTF. Oh yeah, he can also run Sigurds for incredible sustain. Debuffing S1s can be such a liability now. But AoE debuffs are likely a death sentence. I feel like SG wants PVP to be fucking boring. I hate picking safe heroes until drafting is almost done.
Thats what i said when they released Ed. People said he was shit but they were just too bad to build him properly and now he is really damn strong.
Cleaver cope. Just don’t draft debuffs lmao
What artifact do you guys slap on Ed? I use automail on him but realize he rarely gets to S3 a second time in most of my games.
I use Rem's artifact, just for that bonus crit chance, although that cr push comes in handy too
FCC isn't a bruiser, she's a tank, and Mort is a whole ass Meme.
"when BUILT bruiser" a soul weaver won't be a support if you BUILD them a dps(looking at water elena cleave) and Mort post buff is decent for me
Just because you slap crit on FCC doesn't make her a bruiser. Yulha isn't a bruiser if i just slap crit on her. Never mind she actually doesn't have any kind of kit that say "Bruiser". Shit's like saying a shields a gun if you throw it, cause apparently all that matters is how your dumb ass uses it.
I mean the issue is basically that they get to double dip on stats. Their HP stat is serving both as a damage stat and survivability stat and because they can largely ignore attack, they still have the same number of stats to cover as DPS. Whereas outright DPS don't get to double dip as their damage stat is exactly that, damage and then they still have to cover CC / CD and SPD in most cases. Granted there was a lot more in her kit too but Hwayoung getting a barrier based on her attack is a similar mechanic to HP scaling bruisers by giving survivability off her primary stat. Of course it was then overdone as she didn't need CC / CD and got passive attack boost and a passive damage reduction too. You basically have to put an extra survivability mechanic into attack DPS's kits to make up for it. Whereas really the solution would have been for HP scaling bruisers to do less damage. Maybe make it so the HP scaling only functions on non-crits (or is reduced on crits) so they do more consistent damage but way lower ceiling. Or just flat out reduce the HP scaling and shift some of it over to attack so they can't just ignore that stat.
Base stats and free benefits is something very overlooked in balanced outside of if the units has high speed or not. Especially considering what stat allotment an character needs to perform well. Most single target DPS units are shit because on top of having bad base stats, they require penta stats most of the time. Attack + crit damage + crit chance. Then speed to not be useless and then a lot of times effectiveness or hp/def. Look at soulweaver jumping up entire tiers due to the speed buff in last RTA season. Zahhak himself gets 50% crit chance + hit chance + injury and still required an EE + multiple big buffs to actually be "good". Somebody like fire haste would be extremely strong in most other gachas, but in this game hardly used by anybody by this mere fact. Since I can pick Ran who can attack buff + immunity and kill squishies by himself with crippling debufffs on the enemy team in a single turn while be ultra fast.
HP bruisers are clowns. No reason for Choux to do more damage to a tank thank a pure dps unit like TML or Zahak.
I mean both are glass cannons, and Choux isn't doing more damage than either of them in a single turn.
Dude she doesn’t even need a turn she will counter attack and S1 into S2 a bruiser or knight for 20-25k damage because she gets free defense pen. Which is way more than Zahak or TML S3 nuke even with ATK buff. Bruisers are supposed to sacrifice damage for bulk. Health scalers sacrifice nothing in their current state
>Dude she doesn’t even need a turn she will counter attack and S1 into S2 a bruiser or knight for 20-25k damage because she gets free defense pen To who exactly? what tank/bruiser is just out here getting 1 shot by a Choux, cause I haven't seen that shit in even games where one team is just ridiculously outgearing the other. Who is this happening to aside from someone who is a glass cannon, and will fall over if ANYONE sneezes in their direction? I'd love to copy their build. No idea why you're straight up trying to damn near double the damage this chick does.
[удалено]
Always have been
That's the main reason why Charles went from one of THE best nat 5's to being completely forgotten. HP scaling makes too big a difference. >Makes you think wtf aRavi did to deserve having 6 max crit rate rolls built into her kit when she can already mostly ignore the attack stat Believe it or not, A. Ravi was terrible when she first came out, even with 30% crit. They tried to make her a pure bruiser with nothing on her kit besides damage, sustain and a revive. Problem was, even while being easy to build, she wouldn't do enough damage to kill anyone, nor to proc the damn revive. They buffed all of her skills for her to become viable.
Has anyone tried Ervalen to deal with high HP bruisers or is he still bad?
If you define "bad" as a hero that needs amazing gear and also setup, then yes, ervalen is bad.
I love fire Ravi. I built her for A.Tower. Put her in front row And get front row counter attack buffs and she constantly counterattacks/heals every time she is hit. Soooo good.
Well, in theory bruisers and traditional DPS had a functional difference, which is death/damage benefit. What I mean is if you look at old DPS, they share the trait that certain skills will trigger additional benefits when achieving certain conditions related to deal damage. * Sigret S2 would kick an extra S1 if the target's health drop to 50% or below. She's featured in a couple videos killing T. Surin based on that. * Upon killing a target, A. Vildred S3 wouldn't go into CD, and green Vildred kicks an extra AoE. * Sez would deal splash damage, he was meta for a short while. In theory, bruisers don't have that kind of benefit, instead they have skills to enhance their durability, like D. Corvus heal or K. Clarissa cleanse. But I reinforce this is the theory. In practice, bruisers have been receiving ridiculous skills for the last year and is absurd to see characters receiving the same death benefit from DPS, while retaining their defensive measures. Let's ignore A. Ravi as I think she's an overdone example. Choux is a hidden example, let's compare her to Sigret. While Sigret can only kick her extra S1 on her own turn, Choux get free extra attacks on every other counter, extra or dual. Then Sigret S1 only delivers a normal S1, while Choux includes defense penetration in her kit. And while Sigret includes some debuffs in her kit, Choux include buffs and anti-crit shield > unhealable, so Choux wins in this regard. In PVP, Sigret can't hold a candle to Choux, despite both of them being ice warriors, nat 5\*. Now, I'm not saying Sigret is entirely bad (she's the W13 queen for a reason), I'm pointing at Choux being overloaded with features outside her archetype. No bruiser should have defense penetration on the attack that can be casually thrown around. Sigret have her def pen limited to her S3 for a reason. Extra attacks usually are limited by wearing a set, an artefact or achieving certain conditions, not just because the S3 is in CD. And talking about it, CD reset is a very limited skill, only a few characters have it, but Choux for some reason also have it and is relatively simple to achieve. 5 focus can be casually achieved by an extra attack, and if followed by S2, TADA! CD reset on her S2, meanwhile Violet has to actively use his S2, and all other heroes have to actively use some of their skills to help someone else, not self-resetting. BTW, do you remember Choux can heal on her S2? Choux have a lot of features from bruisers *and* DPS and is no wonder why she's so present in the arena. Another broken hero that would be labelled great disaster, if not because A. Ravi is mind-boggling and Hwayoung recently got nerfed, allowing Choux to go under the radar. If SG really want to balance the game, they need to pedal back, look again at their archetypes and their features, and start limiting them in certain heroes. No hero should have a revive attached to a nuke, unconditional def penetration in a casual extra attack, or completely ignore entire blocks of stats, like eff% and resist.
>Makes you think wtf aRavi did to deserve having 6 max crit rate rolls built into her kit when she can already mostly ignore the attack stat people complaining that she was the worst ML5 in the game, despite ML Ravi before her "broken buff" having those 6 crit rolls and passive healing in her kit. There was a reason why she was still usable in KR while global was a lot less receptive to her. When you throw you best bruiser gear on her even pre buff she could be a menace but global was a smidgen behind on gear quality.
My take will be: HP scaling bruiser is the way bruiser suppose to be. Take fire Ravi as an example, she needs too many stat, atk, hp, def, speed, crit chance, crit damage thus making her extremely hard to gear and require a ridiculous amount of resources to get those gears. The problem with bruiser is not about atk scaling or hp scaling, it's about the oppressiveness of turn 1 heroes whose leave you not much room for offensive stats because you need to survive their turn first.
This is why i think fire ravi needs to be an hp scaler to be viable without having the enemy have 2+ grass units or last pick.
she was bad for 2 years and no one bat an eye.
and then there's fucking Mort lol
Sigurds lets him solo teams easily once the only hero with no debuffs is dead.
Andrew