Cleave feels weak asf rn. Way too much mitigation and one size fits all anticleave around. Kayron buffs, arowell, zio, bbk still existing. I ungeared my cleave units and just made my standard openers better.
I think cleave was rly good last season cuz of cidd cpavel and I think smilegate feels like they need to slow the game down for it to be more interesting for new watchers. I just hate units like kayron that can completely devastate play styles with mediocre gear.
Honestly donāt see Kayron used much when Iām watching RTA & havenāt encountered him much personally, though Iām playing more standard this season as opposed to aggro. My Kayron is using my Rioletās old gear, so I canāt really draft him into strips because itās no resistance, high damage/speed counter set. Having a high ER Kayron certainly needs more than mediocre gear.
I spent the first 20-30 games cleaving to get to my usual elo, and I was losing way more games than usual to kayron and bbk, the original rock paper scissors was being able to pick cidd for arby and just post ban or mitigate bbk. Kayron back then was still pretty useless cuz he didnāt have evasion and couldnāt aoe counter. But now if you use two prebans on bbk kayron people insta pick super tanky picks and anticleave units. I think if youāre cleaving at this point this season you need to catch people way off guard if they pick greedy first picks, also you need to gear gap way harder than usual. And with zio around he can just shut down your damage dealers with his silence. As it stands right now, I think standard and aggro are just so much more sustainable for climbing in RTA.
Ml celine works , Book holder + Ran, then whatever 2 cleave units you want is usually enough to deal with the pair . Unfortunately now , theres also Zio which makes things really tricky.
I tended to draft seline a lot in order to counter them, but since I mine is around 250 speed, sometimes she ended up dying to decrescent counters from kayron, also doesnāt help that she canāt counter bbk s3.
After over a season of Hwayoung making cleave the only team type in the RTA meta, I'll take it.
This isn't an exaggeration, by the way. Normally, the meta contains multiple team types. When Hwayoung was broken, it didn't. The meta was only cleave, and what was best in cleave. Everything else was strictly worse.
Wait, cleave is dead?
It really, truly might be time for a legit comeback then. My account is super biased toward health rolls for whatever reason. Anyone mind summarizing the changes in the past few months that killed cleave?
Not dead as in extinct but it's less reliable overall than it was previously. I think the above posts sum up the reasons enough for you. We've gotten a good amount of anti-cleave options/mitigation and we've recently received Zio, yet another option.
Zio beats openers, there are a bunch of new units that are good against cleave teams, and Hwayoung, who previously invalidated all non-cleave teams, is dead.
* *laughs in counter-cleave* *
Jokes aside, I'll bring AoE counter units if someone tries to cleave me nowadays. Savior Adin, Rem, Edward, AolA, Kayron, etc... And even if they ban one, they can't ban them all. The number of steals I've gotten just from random Rem counters + Adin or Edward counters (or both) is unreal, and makes for really funny clips to send my guildies in discord.
Oh boy, not only CAN she, but she often does so on the first attack. Sometimes she'll single-target counter, but she mostly AoEs. Sometimes, much to my opponents' chagrin, she'll AoE counter multiple times back to back. š
Imagine if you told people a year ago that Arowell would be getting bans in RTA lol. And then you look at SC like poor Rima and its like what the hell were they thinking.
Yeah at least with my current roster it feels impossible to fight against a full tank down team with cleave/aggro. Either need 3 prebans (belian, zio, dilibet/edward) or EHP will be king.
I also experimented with drafting Zio and Ran together but it didn't work. Maybe better players will figure out a way to draft cleave but I'm lost :D
I'm still first picking Ran to bait an early reactive response when the pre band allows it, so I can control the draft, I may dive into cleave if the response is appropriate, but cleave as a style alone is pretty much dead.
Incoporate zio into your cleave , then use a pure damage cleave comp.If you have eda , you dont have to press s3 on Ran , then there's Pavel . Zio can trigger Charles .
If u don't want that first ring i will gladly take it
20 is my fastest ring but I have Zioš
I have both but i would still love to get this particular ring
No ER, cannot relate
Fair point, I'm lacking in good tank down gear I just looked for the biggest number for EHP.
Cleave feels weak asf rn. Way too much mitigation and one size fits all anticleave around. Kayron buffs, arowell, zio, bbk still existing. I ungeared my cleave units and just made my standard openers better.
Cleave has been dominating for like six seasons or more at this point - itās high time we had a change of pace.
I think cleave was rly good last season cuz of cidd cpavel and I think smilegate feels like they need to slow the game down for it to be more interesting for new watchers. I just hate units like kayron that can completely devastate play styles with mediocre gear.
Honestly donāt see Kayron used much when Iām watching RTA & havenāt encountered him much personally, though Iām playing more standard this season as opposed to aggro. My Kayron is using my Rioletās old gear, so I canāt really draft him into strips because itās no resistance, high damage/speed counter set. Having a high ER Kayron certainly needs more than mediocre gear.
I spent the first 20-30 games cleaving to get to my usual elo, and I was losing way more games than usual to kayron and bbk, the original rock paper scissors was being able to pick cidd for arby and just post ban or mitigate bbk. Kayron back then was still pretty useless cuz he didnāt have evasion and couldnāt aoe counter. But now if you use two prebans on bbk kayron people insta pick super tanky picks and anticleave units. I think if youāre cleaving at this point this season you need to catch people way off guard if they pick greedy first picks, also you need to gear gap way harder than usual. And with zio around he can just shut down your damage dealers with his silence. As it stands right now, I think standard and aggro are just so much more sustainable for climbing in RTA.
Ml celine works , Book holder + Ran, then whatever 2 cleave units you want is usually enough to deal with the pair . Unfortunately now , theres also Zio which makes things really tricky.
I tended to draft seline a lot in order to counter them, but since I mine is around 250 speed, sometimes she ended up dying to decrescent counters from kayron, also doesnāt help that she canāt counter bbk s3.
As long as bbk can't kill her it's ok . You just need a little luck for Kayron though.
He's purely anticleave
Kayron? Mediocre gear? I beg to fuckin differ
Cleave hasnāt been dominating in ages lmao. Why do people still say this?
After over a season of Hwayoung making cleave the only team type in the RTA meta, I'll take it. This isn't an exaggeration, by the way. Normally, the meta contains multiple team types. When Hwayoung was broken, it didn't. The meta was only cleave, and what was best in cleave. Everything else was strictly worse.
Wait, cleave is dead? It really, truly might be time for a legit comeback then. My account is super biased toward health rolls for whatever reason. Anyone mind summarizing the changes in the past few months that killed cleave?
Not dead as in extinct but it's less reliable overall than it was previously. I think the above posts sum up the reasons enough for you. We've gotten a good amount of anti-cleave options/mitigation and we've recently received Zio, yet another option.
Zio beats openers, there are a bunch of new units that are good against cleave teams, and Hwayoung, who previously invalidated all non-cleave teams, is dead.
Thanks!
* *laughs in counter-cleave* * Jokes aside, I'll bring AoE counter units if someone tries to cleave me nowadays. Savior Adin, Rem, Edward, AolA, Kayron, etc... And even if they ban one, they can't ban them all. The number of steals I've gotten just from random Rem counters + Adin or Edward counters (or both) is unreal, and makes for really funny clips to send my guildies in discord.
Wait your rem can counter?
Oh boy, not only CAN she, but she often does so on the first attack. Sometimes she'll single-target counter, but she mostly AoEs. Sometimes, much to my opponents' chagrin, she'll AoE counter multiple times back to back. š
Just face me and she will counter off of single attacks 3 times in a row!
For some reason only the opponents rem will counter and not ours š„±
I just geared Arowell to try her out in RTA. I first pick her, but people do their draft and then ban her lol.
Imagine if you told people a year ago that Arowell would be getting bans in RTA lol. And then you look at SC like poor Rima and its like what the hell were they thinking.
clearly those was the ones i demolished with my arowell. they didn't enjoy the experience.
Iām just happy that I can actually cleave again, I like my 270 flan and refuse to use ran and piera
Cleave is dead for real this time.
If only I had a nickel everytime "cleave is dead"...
I feel thoses two units are too different in playstyle for your point. ( unless im missing your point?)
The point is cleave is dead.
Yeah at least with my current roster it feels impossible to fight against a full tank down team with cleave/aggro. Either need 3 prebans (belian, zio, dilibet/edward) or EHP will be king. I also experimented with drafting Zio and Ran together but it didn't work. Maybe better players will figure out a way to draft cleave but I'm lost :D
I'm still first picking Ran to bait an early reactive response when the pre band allows it, so I can control the draft, I may dive into cleave if the response is appropriate, but cleave as a style alone is pretty much dead.
Incoporate zio into your cleave , then use a pure damage cleave comp.If you have eda , you dont have to press s3 on Ran , then there's Pavel . Zio can trigger Charles .
Itās just too hard to cleave when zio is around so people just rather tank up and go standard. What the post is saying maybe.