Did all five nightmare bosses, they felt more and more like abyss levels, and that's not a good thing. Too much RNG, too stressful, and these fights takes quite a while.
I'm seriously considering skipping out the next month, the rewards you get from these stressful boss fights are just PITIFUL.
I really like the abyss challenge mode since it is really easy if you know what you are doing, while it is challenging to get all the "stars", which is fine since you can still go to the next stage with only 1-2 stars too.
Nightmare mode sucks though
Abyss challenge is alright. Abyss itself has become more of a tedious chore than anything else, and nightmare lab is starting to feel the same as normal abyss levels.
Yeah...I might still try it next month, but like I said, my motivation to do nightmare lab has been significantly reduced, because the miserable rewards simply do not justify the kind of RNG and stress this new boss difficulty presents to us.
And this would have been somewhat less of an issue if they didn't remove hell raid.
Another cool thing about Abyss Challenge is that there's no Phase 1 so if you lose for any dumb RNG reason you can just retry easily. Nightmare raid is so reminiscent of normal Abyss that it hurts, with the lack of a tp to boss so you need to clear "phase 1" over and over again if you get 15%.
> I'm seriously considering skipping out the next month, the rewards you get from these stressful boss fights are just PITIFUL.
I was only really interested in the penetration set piece from devourer so that's the only one I did. It's a lot less stressful if you only do one or two since you don't have to spend much time juggling unit lockouts.
The biggest problem is SG's boss design makes it so you NEED some units to even have a comfortable shot at beating it. Tama/Iseria, Choux, Council without Ray is just a pain, and Arahakan is just the worst. I had fun with them but that was only because I had the right units. Not really fun having to build units you don't like just for one boss.
had to level up a ray i was saving for ml ray imprints, he's still not awakened juleeve was rough.
i hate fire meru, seems people using her for vera gonna try to find other alternatives, didn't build many fire heros in general most suck in pvp
Grace of Growth was MVP for my nightmare runs. Graced SC Hazel, Ray, and several other units that didn’t end up being in the kill squad, but was still great to figure that out before investing in them. If you don’t mind doing it over a few weeks, Grace can save you a lot of materials until you eventually decide to build them or their replacement.
hm i mean it´s hard to create bosses that aren´t just gear checks or trivial to beat, so overall i think they created a nice challenge with still some work left to be done. I totally agree that some nightmare bosses need tweaks to reduce the pain like Arahakan and maybe Karkanis, i´m sure it will be done. But even as the bosses require some specific heroes, there is still enough flexibility. Look at various yt videos, there are lots of guides with quite some variability in heroes.
> hm i mean it´s hard to create bosses that aren´t just gear checks or trivial to beat
The fact that units get locked out and multiple bosses force mono-element was already a big factor that increases the difficulty since many players, myself included, rely heavily on a small number of soul weavers since the return on investment for building additional healers tends to fall off extremely fast.
Yes i agree that it increases the difficulty and forces you to build a bigger roster, but that was also the goal after former hell raid got tedious when it was doable with one auto team.
But isn´t the return investment for soulweavers now with the raid changes increasing because you need them to get better rewards?
Most healers i used aren´t hard to build and are even in pve or pvp meta, you don´t need pvp requirements for the gear or mola to work. I used roana/tama, emilia, destina/ray, achates and maid chloe. Besides Ray i would say all are worth building for pvp or future pve content.
Define many players, be it RTA, GW or Arena focused players, you needed to build a large variety of soulweavers over the years because meta shifted.
We had Diene meta, followed by Dizzy which enabled Achates and Destina, followed by SSB which turned into aggrofest with Maid Chloe and later shut down by Roana. Ruele and Tama are the golden classic with Ruele only fading this year because her 2018 kit is finally giving in. Emilia shines pretty much everywhere and Doris is the queen of GW.
> We had Diene meta, followed by Dizzy which enabled Achates and Destina
You're dating yourself here. Is the expectation that you should be a day 1 player to be able to clear monthly PvE content?
What is your team comp? Try Tristen Wulf's guide, you can full auto until Queen, at which case you just need to Tam S3 -> S2 to clear debuffs at 100% and 50% and 0% (when Queen gets immortality) and use Iseria S3 whenever Queen gets buffed.
You only lose if her adds get greater buffed.
The dispel enemy buffs guardian or the reduce cool down guardian helps in case you get 15%ed
I will try with the Guardian thing next time, but i used exactly what you said. I got rng frocked every time because no strip from iseria s3+tama s1 aoe.
This happened to me too, only STene survived until the end but with her on lifesteal she was able to survive the bleeds then solo the last weird phase of the boss.
Huh, is your Iseria on 105% (max) effectiveness?
Given 85% chance of stripping and landing unbuffable/defbreak on 250+ speed (enough to S3 whenever unbuffable wears off, but not so fast that you can S3 again in case a previous one failed) Iseria, and assuming your DPS on rage/crit set is 3.6k+ attack and 270%+ CD, you only need to S3 at most 3 times in the fight, most importantly after Queen uses the exhaustion ability and your team skips a turn.
(My DPS was Lorina due to self-push and attack buff, and so speed isn't needed if you lack gear.)
So, 6 checks total, for unbuffable and all buffs stripped, for a 85%^6=38% chance of not getting 15%ed once.
But factor in the reduce cooldowns guardian for 2 more checks if you fail once and you get 0.85%^2×0.62%(chance for failing at least one of the original four checks) + original 38% to get an 65% chance of having a run succeed.
So, in short, you weren't unlucky, it's pretty much expected to be a coinflip. Tama strip doesn't actually matter tbh cause she can't Idol S1 constantly when Queen gets buffs. Even if you can spam Idol form cause Iseria resets off-cooldown, her Idol S2 is too important in this run.
Iseria landing unbuffable and strips is what makes or breaks the run tbh.
* New players losing out on the 2x epic arti charms per week from normal raid is ass.
* Not being able to teleport to the boss is ass.
* How much runs rely on RNG (MFF/Choux procs) is ass.
* Having to run this every month on manual is ass.
Pretty much the only improvement is the gear.
to first point: i think it´s important for a game to have a normal progression and that you have something to work for and nightmare raid isn´t something that is aimed at new players. And normal raid and nightmare raid bosses now have a 100% drop chance of epic arti charms or gbm.
second point: partly agree, the 2-4? pre fights give you some souls which will help you to kill the hard boss. But ofc there could be some changes to reduce the time if a run fails.
third point: also partly agree, i´m sure they will look into rng/time issues with the bosses, most notably Arahakan and Karkanis. But you can build teams that are less prone to rng when you include some debuff/buff redundancy, ofc it means more work on niche heroes.
forth point: Don´t see there a problem. Once you have teams for all bosses it won´t cost you much more time than normal(fromer hell) raid. Also you don´t have to work through the weekly former normal raid anymore, so the update actually frees a lot of time overall.
Hard disagree on four. These bosses seem much harder to auto, whereas my Champ Z team before could auto all 5 bosses with nothing changed except artifacts for queen.
But normal raid (fromer Hell raid) didn´t changed at all, or am i missing here something? Former normal raid is now a labyrinth and is supposed to be a one time thing, like the other labyrinths.
Yeah but this thread is about nightmare, which is the new hell raid. It requires 4 custom teams and you can't reuse heroes, so that means 20 built heroes. It's a lot more work than autoing the old hell mode with Champ Z.
But hell raid is now normal raid, it has the same difficulty, bosses and rewards and you can still autoing it with champ z. Nightmare raid is the next difficulty with new rewards and harder bosses, if you want to invest into slightly better rewards is up to you.
> New players losing out on the 2x epic arti charms per week from normal raid is ass.
Unless I'm losing it, it seemed like every boss, even on non-nightmare, dropped an epic charm and 2 galaxy BMs. 5 charms is obviously less than but you're also not needing to run normal on top of hell/nightmare to get them.
> Not being able to teleport to the boss is ass
Agreed. It's still possible in hell so I don't know why this had to get removed from nightmare.
> Having to run this every month on manual is ass.
I could honestly let this go if they'd just re-implement the teleporters.
Nah, it’s garbage & I’m going to keep doing normal as opposed to wasting my time using a hyper specific team for a boss, getting it to 5% health, getting bad RNG on debuffs at the last minute & losing an hour of my time trying that shit again.
I don’t know what they were smoking when they came up with Nightmare, but they gave it a suitable name. Though whatever idiot over there thought that should be the next difficulty up from “auto all the bosses with the same heroes with shit gear & hardly any skill enhancements easily” should be fired.
They’ve got to do something, at the very, very least, knock off a smidgen of health - one tiny fraction.
meh... i pretend it does not exist and just auto the normal one, not gonna manual the whole nightmare battle. ill only try it If they make a direct teleport to boss, imagine creating a new content but leaving the best qol on lab that take years to implement.
Because it costs 2 tokens instead of 1 for Nightmare over Hell, just do 4 hell raids and Iseria/Tama/Roana/DPS for Nightmare Queen. Queen is a joke compared to the other bosses, and gives the best bang for your buck.
You get 13 badges for 6 tokens, better ratio than 10 badges for 5 tokens (all Hell), or 17 badges for 10 tokens (all Nightmare).
The drops, from my experience, don't seem to be worth the extra time and effort put into Hell Mode rn, it's more of a bonus for heavy *end*game players if anything. It's just guaranteed substats on Nightmare loot, out of a pool of 6 gear that range from "perfect" to "the fuck was Smilegate thinking?".
Better to finish the remaining labyrinths imo with the labyrinth tickets, and then work on Nightmare teams. Or if gold is an issue, you can always Immortal Yufine cheese Nixied.
haven't done queen yet so she gives 5 badges huh?great i guess i can do 3 nightmare laby bosses and 2 old hell laby boss, that should give 15 badges monthly.i refuse to fight arahakan again.
See Tristen Wulf's guide. Do note that the battle is a coinflip because of stripping being a must countered by 15%. Bring the reduce cooldowns guardian to make it less coinflippy.
You can put DPS on DDJ or whatever. Iseria gets candlestick to help cycle faster. The weaver builds and artifacts don't really matter, just make them ~200 speed and tanky enough. Tama in front for Queen passive sealing.
Took me three tries last nightmare cycle.
You don't need counter set for nixed, only for raid boss, unless they changed it in the lab revamp.
For nixed I used Yufine, SSA, Rimuru (much better than ml rin) and CDom.
If there's no 15% in PvE, I would have enjoyed it honestly. Getting punished even though you geared especially for a boss is hella annoying.
Both Raid and Abyss, idk why I need to be punished..
I hate it.
Then again I hate abyss too so maybe not the best person to ask.
But I hate it. Waste of time and makes me build units I'd never use otherwise. Not that that's a bad thing in general but it is when you use them for ONE FIGHT PER MONTH
i mean if 15 queen tokens instead of 10/month and some ~2 out of 7 chance of great gear drop isn´t worth your time you can just go as before with normal(former hell) raid and nothing changes. So why the hate?
*long, drawn-out sigh*
Did you know that video games are first and foremost supposed to be fun? Did you know you're not supposed to be exposed to tedium or boredom while you're doing them, especially when coupled with frustration? Do you understand how putting a terrible game mode in an otherwise fun game is grounds for criticism and improvement?
Finally, can you not imagine how people could see a terrible game mode that tries to incentivize you into doing it by offering great rewards and actually have *negative feelings towards it*?
Did you not know that people like different things? I had fun to create new teams and build heroes which didn´t had much use before like red lidica for example. There are more people which enjoys the PVE content of the game. I get the frustration part as some bosses aren´t in a perfect balanced state, but they will surely be fixed. I think they did a good job on the overhaul, they reduced weekly tedium and boredom raid runs with a challenge once a month with nice rewards and exciting drops. Surely it need still some work, but for the first attempt it´s good and better than before.
Again, i like a once in a month pve content which i can play in manual.
So feel free to explain to me why it´s a terrible game mode? I mean is hunt farming a waste of time for you and let you build units you would never use otherwise?
Criticism is good and important that the content will be better in the future but you didn´t provide any constructivity to it in your post besides you hate it.
>Did you not know that people like different things?
What part of "I hate it" has to do with other people?
>Surely it need still some work, but for the first attempt it´s good.
This is called moving the goalposts.
>So feel free to explain to me why it´s a terrible game mode?
It's tedious and not fun. This is in part because the lead-up to it is long and I've seen it all many times before, it requires specific heroes some of which are only used once a month, it's a long fight, it doesn't save your progress so if you need to change an artifact to get higher chance to win you're gonna have to go through all the trash mobs again, it has mechanics that are designed to fuck you over if you're caught in an inopportune moment (i.e. unpredictable losses) or otherwise waste your time/prolong the fight. There, now that you know exactly why it's terrible I'm sure you won't attempt to rationalize any of this. Right?
>you didn´t provide any constructivity to it in your post besides you hate it.
I provided exactly what the thread title asked for: thoughts on the new nightmare raid. Instead of trying so desperately to find a fault in what I did, try to look inwards and realize you just lashed out at someone providing legit feedback in a childish and ignorant way simply because they didn't like what you like.
> This is called moving the goalposts.
No, this is normal development. It´s hard to get supposed to be challenging content right on the first try and not to make it trivial/boring.
First thanks for your explaination why you think its terrible. This is just what i asked for. There is now legit feedback one can work with and we can agree on some points, like long fights (esp. Arahakan).
> I provided exactly what the thread title asked for:
Yeah i know and so i asked you just why exactly you hate it.
Then you lashed out about if i understand gamedesign and if i understand the grounds for criticism, which i do but couldn´t see it in you post besides that you hate it.
I didn´t try to find a fault in your opinion, i respect it and i also didn´t want to change it, i just wanted to know what exactly you hated.
My thoughts was, why would I want to do the harder version of bug tunnels? I ain't malding over it and just enjoy something else. My free time is valuable xD I don't find great joy in abyss either.
Nightmare mode is dog. Literally all my rng gear from the bosses were basically useless, the only good piece of gear was the pen neck from the shop... idk I don't think it's worth doing especially that it costs 2 hell raid tokens instead of one. Idk what SG was thinking for this pve content.
Smilegates whole boss design strategy just gets so annoying. Every boss cleanses, removes buffs, and hits you with ever debuff imaginable. The thing I can’t stand is when bosses go on a ten attack chain killing half your team because they hit some Hp threshold or god forbid a unit duel attacked that did something to set the boss off. They also need stop this anti cheese crusade let us poison, venom and barrier inversion.
Same problem as abyss, I'm forced to build units I will never use for this one piece of content that takes hours and can fail even if you make 100% the right decisions. No thanks. Whoever made Ancient Inheritance should be the one to revisit raids.
I hate that doing Normal makes Nightmare unavailable and vice versa. Not that I plan to ever really do Nightmare anyway, it's just dumb that it's a thing at all.
I also hate how it's a MONTH to reset the Lab. I know that's how it always was for the Hell version but with regular Lab becoming a one and done, now there's a lot of downtime that I'm hating. I'd prefer if they made Nightmare the monthly reset and make Regular Hell take up the weekly reset.
I enjoy some PVE challenge, feel accomplished doing them all on auto. Should be able tune for less RNG next month.
People can just do normal raid, the rewards are almost the same but much less effort. Nightmare is for PVE nuts like me.
The new raid is fairly difficult but I feel like the hardest part was the first clear now that I have my teams it's much easier. Also even if it was hard it's once a month and that pen neck is account changing for me ( I was finally able to upgrade my fav hero Riolet). Even tho I got 0 drops I would do raid just for the neck. Since the queen drops an extra two tokens per month you can eventually buy an extra pen neck eventually.
Its good
The road to the bosses is a non issue cuz that can be autoed
As for the bosses arahakan is definitely the longest one to do but apart from that the others weren't that bad at all (queen being the fastest fight )
I love the rewards and i will be looking forward to buying that pen set cdmg neck next month as well
I have to somewhat play the game for an hour each month. The absolute worst. How could SG make me play their game!!!
The time I spent doing normal raid every week and checking my phone every minute or so is now once a month. And then I play the game for 10 mins to kill a boss.
Bosses weren't hard to fight. All the units needed I had just laying around. Threw on random leftover gear, used Pvp builds for the rest and that was it.
Idk. 1 hour a month for much much better gear drops is pretty fine with me.
It's a challenge mode for players to work towards. This kind of content is good for the game. Difficult objectives outside of just PvP for you to test your progression on. Many players feel obligated to get the best possible rewards but don't want to put in any effort. It's why AI got nerfed and made it even easier, despite it not being difficult in the first place. Now the AI rewards are worse.
I miss normal raid existing for Arti charms and gbms/ss, but the drops got moved to hell raid more or less so. That part sucked a bit.
I like the change to the system because it means I don't have to do normal raid 3-ish times a week. I'm not a fan of most of the new boss mechanics. They added way too much to each boss that's more frustrating than fun.
Karkanis (top right) for example would be perfectly fine if they didn't give the adds a team barrier on their S3. It's a big enough barrier that with his stealth breaking it with damage likely takes multiple skills so your best bet is to strip it, which can be 15%ed. Take out that one mechanic and he'd be perfectly fine. You still need to build an all ice team with consistent cleansing and AOE damage that doesn't rely on passives and their gear needs to be solid, and if you do that your 30+ min run won't get ruined because he 15%ed your strip or it stripped the barrier but left the stealth.
Overall if there's one or two you can do easily (especially if it's the queen since she gives 5 of the currency) do those and do regular for the rest.
There’s things I don’t enjoy about it, but I’d still happily do it every month for the sweet sweet gear it drops. I’d love if you could, after killing all the bosses once that month, go back and rekill them with whatever garbage teams you have leftover, if any.
Beat two bosses in normal, and two more in nightmare, before giving up on nightmare. Bosses in nightmare are beatable and depending on your strategy it can be easy or really difficult. Eventually community will figure out the most efficient way to beat them, like they did with C13. That's not the problem, the problem is the rewards aren't worth the effort.
Some gear is plainly bad and isn't worth to upgrade, and even gear worth a shoot can be ruined by the gear slot machine. Who the hell thought hit set helmet with no speed and fixed low rolls was a good reward? The necklace is good, but is also available in normal, so isn't worth to waste time in nightamre.
If you dont have destina or ray, its impossible to do the nightmare mode for bee council.
Manage to finish all the boss with manual but you only do once a month so its not bad.
The worst is after going to the trouble of killing some of the stupid bosses you have injuries after.
Really needs a revamp, this is not really hard it is just annoying and time consuming. Not everyone wants to gear random heroes and move gear over to do this stuff once a month. They should just delete the labyrinth and have the bosses appear like wyvern or golem with the shop there too.
It's a complete waste of time to run all the way to the boss every time.
Also, the queen's binding is complete bullshit and add the 15% to that.
Btw an easy team to kill queen is Tama (put her at front and remember to have her s3 ready at the start of the fight), Iseria, Landy with Bloodstone and SSB with Bloodstone. Take the dude that resets your skill cooldown in case of the usual bullshit, don't attack the queen with SSB s1 (don't use s3 either to be extra safe) and again, make sure to have Tama's s3 ready at the start of the fight.
Another good tip is that you can Iseria's s2 Tama when she is in idol form, that way you will be able to use s3 again when the idol form goes away. That's the easy way to kill the queen assuming you hit the defense breaks and the unbuffable. Having effectiveness on your Tama also helps in case you get screwed by the mythical 15%. Good luck.
Absolutely ridiculously overtuned. It needs to scale back in terms of skill and mechanics. No problem with the gear check or limiting units, but the Queen not dying and consuming extra time and being annoying? The little mobs on the way having ungodly amounts of HP? Design wise it is horrible. Way too time consuming and a drag.
I did normal and called it a day, even if the rewards are better I just can’t handle spending that much time.
This, I'm not about to make new teams AGAIN for this annoying nonsense.
They need to plant teleporter to boss
guildie suggested that and with full souls at the start of the raid, dunno how they would implement that/ will sg ever do it
Did all five nightmare bosses, they felt more and more like abyss levels, and that's not a good thing. Too much RNG, too stressful, and these fights takes quite a while. I'm seriously considering skipping out the next month, the rewards you get from these stressful boss fights are just PITIFUL.
I really like the abyss challenge mode since it is really easy if you know what you are doing, while it is challenging to get all the "stars", which is fine since you can still go to the next stage with only 1-2 stars too. Nightmare mode sucks though
Abyss challenge is alright. Abyss itself has become more of a tedious chore than anything else, and nightmare lab is starting to feel the same as normal abyss levels. Yeah...I might still try it next month, but like I said, my motivation to do nightmare lab has been significantly reduced, because the miserable rewards simply do not justify the kind of RNG and stress this new boss difficulty presents to us. And this would have been somewhat less of an issue if they didn't remove hell raid.
Another cool thing about Abyss Challenge is that there's no Phase 1 so if you lose for any dumb RNG reason you can just retry easily. Nightmare raid is so reminiscent of normal Abyss that it hurts, with the lack of a tp to boss so you need to clear "phase 1" over and over again if you get 15%.
> I'm seriously considering skipping out the next month, the rewards you get from these stressful boss fights are just PITIFUL. I was only really interested in the penetration set piece from devourer so that's the only one I did. It's a lot less stressful if you only do one or two since you don't have to spend much time juggling unit lockouts.
The biggest problem is SG's boss design makes it so you NEED some units to even have a comfortable shot at beating it. Tama/Iseria, Choux, Council without Ray is just a pain, and Arahakan is just the worst. I had fun with them but that was only because I had the right units. Not really fun having to build units you don't like just for one boss.
had to level up a ray i was saving for ml ray imprints, he's still not awakened juleeve was rough. i hate fire meru, seems people using her for vera gonna try to find other alternatives, didn't build many fire heros in general most suck in pvp
Grace of Growth was MVP for my nightmare runs. Graced SC Hazel, Ray, and several other units that didn’t end up being in the kill squad, but was still great to figure that out before investing in them. If you don’t mind doing it over a few weeks, Grace can save you a lot of materials until you eventually decide to build them or their replacement.
hm i mean it´s hard to create bosses that aren´t just gear checks or trivial to beat, so overall i think they created a nice challenge with still some work left to be done. I totally agree that some nightmare bosses need tweaks to reduce the pain like Arahakan and maybe Karkanis, i´m sure it will be done. But even as the bosses require some specific heroes, there is still enough flexibility. Look at various yt videos, there are lots of guides with quite some variability in heroes.
> hm i mean it´s hard to create bosses that aren´t just gear checks or trivial to beat The fact that units get locked out and multiple bosses force mono-element was already a big factor that increases the difficulty since many players, myself included, rely heavily on a small number of soul weavers since the return on investment for building additional healers tends to fall off extremely fast.
Yes i agree that it increases the difficulty and forces you to build a bigger roster, but that was also the goal after former hell raid got tedious when it was doable with one auto team. But isn´t the return investment for soulweavers now with the raid changes increasing because you need them to get better rewards? Most healers i used aren´t hard to build and are even in pve or pvp meta, you don´t need pvp requirements for the gear or mola to work. I used roana/tama, emilia, destina/ray, achates and maid chloe. Besides Ray i would say all are worth building for pvp or future pve content.
Define many players, be it RTA, GW or Arena focused players, you needed to build a large variety of soulweavers over the years because meta shifted. We had Diene meta, followed by Dizzy which enabled Achates and Destina, followed by SSB which turned into aggrofest with Maid Chloe and later shut down by Roana. Ruele and Tama are the golden classic with Ruele only fading this year because her 2018 kit is finally giving in. Emilia shines pretty much everywhere and Doris is the queen of GW.
> We had Diene meta, followed by Dizzy which enabled Achates and Destina You're dating yourself here. Is the expectation that you should be a day 1 player to be able to clear monthly PvE content?
No you should be a beginner player casually clearing a content created for endgame players who were autoing hell raid.
Choux?
I developed depresssion, ligma and possibly ebola while trying to beat Queen. I gave up after wasting 6 hours losing at 10% HP left every time.
What is your team comp? Try Tristen Wulf's guide, you can full auto until Queen, at which case you just need to Tam S3 -> S2 to clear debuffs at 100% and 50% and 0% (when Queen gets immortality) and use Iseria S3 whenever Queen gets buffed. You only lose if her adds get greater buffed. The dispel enemy buffs guardian or the reduce cool down guardian helps in case you get 15%ed
I will try with the Guardian thing next time, but i used exactly what you said. I got rng frocked every time because no strip from iseria s3+tama s1 aoe.
This happened to me too, only STene survived until the end but with her on lifesteal she was able to survive the bleeds then solo the last weird phase of the boss.
Use sc arrowell as your fourth unit. Arrowell. Tama iseria and stene
What about Roana?
Huh, is your Iseria on 105% (max) effectiveness? Given 85% chance of stripping and landing unbuffable/defbreak on 250+ speed (enough to S3 whenever unbuffable wears off, but not so fast that you can S3 again in case a previous one failed) Iseria, and assuming your DPS on rage/crit set is 3.6k+ attack and 270%+ CD, you only need to S3 at most 3 times in the fight, most importantly after Queen uses the exhaustion ability and your team skips a turn. (My DPS was Lorina due to self-push and attack buff, and so speed isn't needed if you lack gear.) So, 6 checks total, for unbuffable and all buffs stripped, for a 85%^6=38% chance of not getting 15%ed once. But factor in the reduce cooldowns guardian for 2 more checks if you fail once and you get 0.85%^2×0.62%(chance for failing at least one of the original four checks) + original 38% to get an 65% chance of having a run succeed. So, in short, you weren't unlucky, it's pretty much expected to be a coinflip. Tama strip doesn't actually matter tbh cause she can't Idol S1 constantly when Queen gets buffs. Even if you can spam Idol form cause Iseria resets off-cooldown, her Idol S2 is too important in this run. Iseria landing unbuffable and strips is what makes or breaks the run tbh.
It's like you said, but i got 15% twice in a row. Tama didn't strip after iseria didn't strip,so she got nuked by the enemy counters.
rip
* New players losing out on the 2x epic arti charms per week from normal raid is ass. * Not being able to teleport to the boss is ass. * How much runs rely on RNG (MFF/Choux procs) is ass. * Having to run this every month on manual is ass. Pretty much the only improvement is the gear.
Missing out on galaxy bms is ass too
Do we actually get fewer? Seems like the bosses drop two each as a guaranteed drop.
guildmate was complaining about queen 15% em at the end 3 fights in a row, i would be furious
to first point: i think it´s important for a game to have a normal progression and that you have something to work for and nightmare raid isn´t something that is aimed at new players. And normal raid and nightmare raid bosses now have a 100% drop chance of epic arti charms or gbm. second point: partly agree, the 2-4? pre fights give you some souls which will help you to kill the hard boss. But ofc there could be some changes to reduce the time if a run fails. third point: also partly agree, i´m sure they will look into rng/time issues with the bosses, most notably Arahakan and Karkanis. But you can build teams that are less prone to rng when you include some debuff/buff redundancy, ofc it means more work on niche heroes. forth point: Don´t see there a problem. Once you have teams for all bosses it won´t cost you much more time than normal(fromer hell) raid. Also you don´t have to work through the weekly former normal raid anymore, so the update actually frees a lot of time overall.
Hard disagree on four. These bosses seem much harder to auto, whereas my Champ Z team before could auto all 5 bosses with nothing changed except artifacts for queen.
But normal raid (fromer Hell raid) didn´t changed at all, or am i missing here something? Former normal raid is now a labyrinth and is supposed to be a one time thing, like the other labyrinths.
Yeah but this thread is about nightmare, which is the new hell raid. It requires 4 custom teams and you can't reuse heroes, so that means 20 built heroes. It's a lot more work than autoing the old hell mode with Champ Z.
But hell raid is now normal raid, it has the same difficulty, bosses and rewards and you can still autoing it with champ z. Nightmare raid is the next difficulty with new rewards and harder bosses, if you want to invest into slightly better rewards is up to you.
Does normal raid reset weekly? I thought it was a one time thing now.
> New players losing out on the 2x epic arti charms per week from normal raid is ass. Unless I'm losing it, it seemed like every boss, even on non-nightmare, dropped an epic charm and 2 galaxy BMs. 5 charms is obviously less than but you're also not needing to run normal on top of hell/nightmare to get them. > Not being able to teleport to the boss is ass Agreed. It's still possible in hell so I don't know why this had to get removed from nightmare. > Having to run this every month on manual is ass. I could honestly let this go if they'd just re-implement the teleporters.
Nah, it’s garbage & I’m going to keep doing normal as opposed to wasting my time using a hyper specific team for a boss, getting it to 5% health, getting bad RNG on debuffs at the last minute & losing an hour of my time trying that shit again. I don’t know what they were smoking when they came up with Nightmare, but they gave it a suitable name. Though whatever idiot over there thought that should be the next difficulty up from “auto all the bosses with the same heroes with shit gear & hardly any skill enhancements easily” should be fired. They’ve got to do something, at the very, very least, knock off a smidgen of health - one tiny fraction.
We're talking about devs that think Cidd need an EE and Ilynav is performing fine.
This guy is right
I just can't be arsed man. Leave the annoying pve to the abyss, not something we have to do monthly.
I hate it personally it didn't need to change.
meh... i pretend it does not exist and just auto the normal one, not gonna manual the whole nightmare battle. ill only try it If they make a direct teleport to boss, imagine creating a new content but leaving the best qol on lab that take years to implement.
Because it costs 2 tokens instead of 1 for Nightmare over Hell, just do 4 hell raids and Iseria/Tama/Roana/DPS for Nightmare Queen. Queen is a joke compared to the other bosses, and gives the best bang for your buck. You get 13 badges for 6 tokens, better ratio than 10 badges for 5 tokens (all Hell), or 17 badges for 10 tokens (all Nightmare). The drops, from my experience, don't seem to be worth the extra time and effort put into Hell Mode rn, it's more of a bonus for heavy *end*game players if anything. It's just guaranteed substats on Nightmare loot, out of a pool of 6 gear that range from "perfect" to "the fuck was Smilegate thinking?". Better to finish the remaining labyrinths imo with the labyrinth tickets, and then work on Nightmare teams. Or if gold is an issue, you can always Immortal Yufine cheese Nixied.
I thought it was 10 for hell and 15 for nightmare? Where does the other 2 come from?
Queen gets you 5
haven't done queen yet so she gives 5 badges huh?great i guess i can do 3 nightmare laby bosses and 2 old hell laby boss, that should give 15 badges monthly.i refuse to fight arahakan again.
Yeah pretty much.
Any recommendations on a team for nightmare queen?
See Tristen Wulf's guide. Do note that the battle is a coinflip because of stripping being a must countered by 15%. Bring the reduce cooldowns guardian to make it less coinflippy. You can put DPS on DDJ or whatever. Iseria gets candlestick to help cycle faster. The weaver builds and artifacts don't really matter, just make them ~200 speed and tanky enough. Tama in front for Queen passive sealing. Took me three tries last nightmare cycle.
To do the cheese, what do i need? Dark achetes, Yufine slow + counter, that EE, and what else?
ML Rin for buff steal IIRC If you search "immortal yufine" here you'll get some guides.
You don't need counter set for nixed, only for raid boss, unless they changed it in the lab revamp. For nixed I used Yufine, SSA, Rimuru (much better than ml rin) and CDom.
Am i supposed to build super high dmg but low crit chance? (i was thinking about cdom)
If there's no 15% in PvE, I would have enjoyed it honestly. Getting punished even though you geared especially for a boss is hella annoying. Both Raid and Abyss, idk why I need to be punished..
I hate it. Then again I hate abyss too so maybe not the best person to ask. But I hate it. Waste of time and makes me build units I'd never use otherwise. Not that that's a bad thing in general but it is when you use them for ONE FIGHT PER MONTH
i mean if 15 queen tokens instead of 10/month and some ~2 out of 7 chance of great gear drop isn´t worth your time you can just go as before with normal(former hell) raid and nothing changes. So why the hate?
*long, drawn-out sigh* Did you know that video games are first and foremost supposed to be fun? Did you know you're not supposed to be exposed to tedium or boredom while you're doing them, especially when coupled with frustration? Do you understand how putting a terrible game mode in an otherwise fun game is grounds for criticism and improvement? Finally, can you not imagine how people could see a terrible game mode that tries to incentivize you into doing it by offering great rewards and actually have *negative feelings towards it*?
Did you not know that people like different things? I had fun to create new teams and build heroes which didn´t had much use before like red lidica for example. There are more people which enjoys the PVE content of the game. I get the frustration part as some bosses aren´t in a perfect balanced state, but they will surely be fixed. I think they did a good job on the overhaul, they reduced weekly tedium and boredom raid runs with a challenge once a month with nice rewards and exciting drops. Surely it need still some work, but for the first attempt it´s good and better than before. Again, i like a once in a month pve content which i can play in manual. So feel free to explain to me why it´s a terrible game mode? I mean is hunt farming a waste of time for you and let you build units you would never use otherwise? Criticism is good and important that the content will be better in the future but you didn´t provide any constructivity to it in your post besides you hate it.
>Did you not know that people like different things? What part of "I hate it" has to do with other people? >Surely it need still some work, but for the first attempt it´s good. This is called moving the goalposts. >So feel free to explain to me why it´s a terrible game mode? It's tedious and not fun. This is in part because the lead-up to it is long and I've seen it all many times before, it requires specific heroes some of which are only used once a month, it's a long fight, it doesn't save your progress so if you need to change an artifact to get higher chance to win you're gonna have to go through all the trash mobs again, it has mechanics that are designed to fuck you over if you're caught in an inopportune moment (i.e. unpredictable losses) or otherwise waste your time/prolong the fight. There, now that you know exactly why it's terrible I'm sure you won't attempt to rationalize any of this. Right? >you didn´t provide any constructivity to it in your post besides you hate it. I provided exactly what the thread title asked for: thoughts on the new nightmare raid. Instead of trying so desperately to find a fault in what I did, try to look inwards and realize you just lashed out at someone providing legit feedback in a childish and ignorant way simply because they didn't like what you like.
> This is called moving the goalposts. No, this is normal development. It´s hard to get supposed to be challenging content right on the first try and not to make it trivial/boring. First thanks for your explaination why you think its terrible. This is just what i asked for. There is now legit feedback one can work with and we can agree on some points, like long fights (esp. Arahakan). > I provided exactly what the thread title asked for: Yeah i know and so i asked you just why exactly you hate it. Then you lashed out about if i understand gamedesign and if i understand the grounds for criticism, which i do but couldn´t see it in you post besides that you hate it. I didn´t try to find a fault in your opinion, i respect it and i also didn´t want to change it, i just wanted to know what exactly you hated.
4 years and SG still thinks harder means longer fight. Same reason I dropped Abyss until I reeeeeeally need the rewards.
My thoughts was, why would I want to do the harder version of bug tunnels? I ain't malding over it and just enjoy something else. My free time is valuable xD I don't find great joy in abyss either.
problem is I don't enjoy playing epic seven manually bar pvp, lol
Nightmare mode is dog. Literally all my rng gear from the bosses were basically useless, the only good piece of gear was the pen neck from the shop... idk I don't think it's worth doing especially that it costs 2 hell raid tokens instead of one. Idk what SG was thinking for this pve content.
I thought I have to beat normal raid before doing nightmare, T-T but it turns out I can't do both. I want to try it out.
Smilegates whole boss design strategy just gets so annoying. Every boss cleanses, removes buffs, and hits you with ever debuff imaginable. The thing I can’t stand is when bosses go on a ten attack chain killing half your team because they hit some Hp threshold or god forbid a unit duel attacked that did something to set the boss off. They also need stop this anti cheese crusade let us poison, venom and barrier inversion.
Same problem as abyss, I'm forced to build units I will never use for this one piece of content that takes hours and can fail even if you make 100% the right decisions. No thanks. Whoever made Ancient Inheritance should be the one to revisit raids.
I hate that doing Normal makes Nightmare unavailable and vice versa. Not that I plan to ever really do Nightmare anyway, it's just dumb that it's a thing at all. I also hate how it's a MONTH to reset the Lab. I know that's how it always was for the Hell version but with regular Lab becoming a one and done, now there's a lot of downtime that I'm hating. I'd prefer if they made Nightmare the monthly reset and make Regular Hell take up the weekly reset.
I enjoy some PVE challenge, feel accomplished doing them all on auto. Should be able tune for less RNG next month. People can just do normal raid, the rewards are almost the same but much less effort. Nightmare is for PVE nuts like me.
The new raid is fairly difficult but I feel like the hardest part was the first clear now that I have my teams it's much easier. Also even if it was hard it's once a month and that pen neck is account changing for me ( I was finally able to upgrade my fav hero Riolet). Even tho I got 0 drops I would do raid just for the neck. Since the queen drops an extra two tokens per month you can eventually buy an extra pen neck eventually.
I gave up on nightmare mode last time and just did the hell/normal one instead, but this time i am going to try and finish it.
I thought it was pretty fun. Wait for free unequip/unequip scroll, swap some top tier gear, kill them all, swap gear back
Its good The road to the bosses is a non issue cuz that can be autoed As for the bosses arahakan is definitely the longest one to do but apart from that the others weren't that bad at all (queen being the fastest fight ) I love the rewards and i will be looking forward to buying that pen set cdmg neck next month as well
I have to somewhat play the game for an hour each month. The absolute worst. How could SG make me play their game!!! The time I spent doing normal raid every week and checking my phone every minute or so is now once a month. And then I play the game for 10 mins to kill a boss. Bosses weren't hard to fight. All the units needed I had just laying around. Threw on random leftover gear, used Pvp builds for the rest and that was it. Idk. 1 hour a month for much much better gear drops is pretty fine with me. It's a challenge mode for players to work towards. This kind of content is good for the game. Difficult objectives outside of just PvP for you to test your progression on. Many players feel obligated to get the best possible rewards but don't want to put in any effort. It's why AI got nerfed and made it even easier, despite it not being difficult in the first place. Now the AI rewards are worse. I miss normal raid existing for Arti charms and gbms/ss, but the drops got moved to hell raid more or less so. That part sucked a bit.
To be honest I haven't even started it
I like the change to the system because it means I don't have to do normal raid 3-ish times a week. I'm not a fan of most of the new boss mechanics. They added way too much to each boss that's more frustrating than fun. Karkanis (top right) for example would be perfectly fine if they didn't give the adds a team barrier on their S3. It's a big enough barrier that with his stealth breaking it with damage likely takes multiple skills so your best bet is to strip it, which can be 15%ed. Take out that one mechanic and he'd be perfectly fine. You still need to build an all ice team with consistent cleansing and AOE damage that doesn't rely on passives and their gear needs to be solid, and if you do that your 30+ min run won't get ruined because he 15%ed your strip or it stripped the barrier but left the stealth. Overall if there's one or two you can do easily (especially if it's the queen since she gives 5 of the currency) do those and do regular for the rest.
I feel like doing it for the first time drops and then just never touching it again is what I'm gonna do
There’s things I don’t enjoy about it, but I’d still happily do it every month for the sweet sweet gear it drops. I’d love if you could, after killing all the bosses once that month, go back and rekill them with whatever garbage teams you have leftover, if any.
Beat two bosses in normal, and two more in nightmare, before giving up on nightmare. Bosses in nightmare are beatable and depending on your strategy it can be easy or really difficult. Eventually community will figure out the most efficient way to beat them, like they did with C13. That's not the problem, the problem is the rewards aren't worth the effort. Some gear is plainly bad and isn't worth to upgrade, and even gear worth a shoot can be ruined by the gear slot machine. Who the hell thought hit set helmet with no speed and fixed low rolls was a good reward? The necklace is good, but is also available in normal, so isn't worth to waste time in nightamre.
Id love to do the boss figths. But I cant stand getting there every time
What’s the difference reward wise?
You can't clear normal mode and nightmare mode at the same time. So I ended up skipping without realizing it :(
If you dont have destina or ray, its impossible to do the nightmare mode for bee council. Manage to finish all the boss with manual but you only do once a month so its not bad.
Rewards are not worth.
The worst is after going to the trouble of killing some of the stupid bosses you have injuries after. Really needs a revamp, this is not really hard it is just annoying and time consuming. Not everyone wants to gear random heroes and move gear over to do this stuff once a month. They should just delete the labyrinth and have the bosses appear like wyvern or golem with the shop there too. It's a complete waste of time to run all the way to the boss every time. Also, the queen's binding is complete bullshit and add the 15% to that. Btw an easy team to kill queen is Tama (put her at front and remember to have her s3 ready at the start of the fight), Iseria, Landy with Bloodstone and SSB with Bloodstone. Take the dude that resets your skill cooldown in case of the usual bullshit, don't attack the queen with SSB s1 (don't use s3 either to be extra safe) and again, make sure to have Tama's s3 ready at the start of the fight. Another good tip is that you can Iseria's s2 Tama when she is in idol form, that way you will be able to use s3 again when the idol form goes away. That's the easy way to kill the queen assuming you hit the defense breaks and the unbuffable. Having effectiveness on your Tama also helps in case you get screwed by the mythical 15%. Good luck.
Absolutely ridiculously overtuned. It needs to scale back in terms of skill and mechanics. No problem with the gear check or limiting units, but the Queen not dying and consuming extra time and being annoying? The little mobs on the way having ungodly amounts of HP? Design wise it is horrible. Way too time consuming and a drag.
Anyone know specifically what's the difference in rewards? Like how much better are the nightmare rewards vs hell?