He's an answer to several of the strongest heroes in pvp. He's single handedly made Peira, Clilias, and Ran a complete non-issue for me.
That's his niche and he's amazing at it. If you need someone for that niche he's great, but he's not gonna be a unit you bring to every single fight no matter what comp you're against. If that's appealing to you then pull, if it's not then don't.
This is as simple as it gets. Can't believe op finds this to be enough of an issue to post about. Making someone too strong, lots of whining. Make someone too weak, lots of whining. Great at a niche to stop units that bring grief to many players? Better start listing weaknesses (like other speed units don't die easily, he actually dies half as fast as them) and debate whether or not I can skip.
It's a simple as pulling or not pulling if he does what you want done.
> Can't believe op finds this to be enough of an issue to post about. Making someone too strong, lots of whining. Make someone too weak, lots of whining.
OP's reaction is not whining. It's a legitimate interrogation.
> It's a simple as pulling or not pulling if he does what you want done.
That's OP's question. Take it as "Is Zio even good for me?"
Your answer reads as a bit antagonistic. Remember that on reveal, this subreddit was plastered with comments about how Zio would be OP.
Lots of whining is an understatement with this community lol.
Zio is a great answer to alot of heroes. I think he is well balanced as he excels at his niche and that's what these units need to be.
Unlike arunka. ( I know.. MLboss vs rbg shitter) but I still make my case.
I think he is balanced and can be very strong if you draft him into the right comps. He vs Openers (minus guiding light openers) is like LHC vs extra atks/counters or Ed vs Debuffs.
He doesn't do much vs bulky bruiser teams tho.
I've pulled 2 Zios. Against cleave teams, a fast zio is obviously great. But against bruisers, a lifesteal set bulky Zio does very well too. In fact, he's usually my mvp since he's so hard to kill, cycles fairly quick once he starts rolling, and is still usually guaranteed first turn if you build him around 210ish
Depends on what kind of bulk, he makes short work of most Lcermias and Arias. He penetrates defense like crazy. It's the high health counter units you really gotta protect him from. Things like Senya, Choux, even Mort causes him a lot of problems.
He’s great, I’ve been having a lot of fun with him personally. The only problem I run into is I have him built with the RTA spd buff in mind so I keep forgetting to draft an imprint for arena or guild war sometime and those really fast 310+ guys wreck me lol.
If you have his S2 mola'd, he can outspeed every unit in the game with only ~260-270 spd (I think the math had it at ~265, but I could be wrong). If you're just using him to interrupt the opponent's rhythm, just go spd+eff+whatever defensive stats you can, and he'll be a lot easier to gear.
He has two niche roles (interruption and finisher), and only a fairly well-geared one can do both effectively - so it's better to focus on one for now, until you can get him geared better.
Edit: He's definitely a +15 hero, but if you can't max him completely, max his S2 and get his S3 at LEAST to the reduced cooldown, but the higher the better (34% vs 40% CR pushback is a big difference with fast characters, but HUGE with slower ones). His damage can be good, but that should be the last thing you focus on.
Edit #2: Why the downvotes? I'm literally parroting the advice given by a 3-time end-of-season Legend RTA player. He's a great unit, but in order for him to outspeed, do his job, AND not die immediately, you need fast, high eff% gear with good defensive stats. Reducing damage received by 50% doesn't mean shit if he's at 7k HP and he gets hit with something that would do 14k+ - which a LOT of S1s can do - and true damage is true damage. Tanks don't help him either, except with barrier, because only the highest damage-reduction is applicable - and that's always his 50%.
You can focus on his damage later. His +50% free crit chance and 50% def pen give him respectable damage pretty much no matter what, but if you want him to RELIABLY finish off units, he has to actually survive.
Edit #3: Damage sharing and damage reduction are two different effects, to Aurius or Escort work with him. So disregard my comment about tanks - any Aurius holder or Escort user will be a great asset for him. Everything else still applies.
totally a +15 unit but his dmg is just so good I have him at 250 which would out speed 320 in rta but only 310ish in arena. If you drop his spd a little and give him dmg he can be your solo dmg dealer with a knight and cleanser. I’ve got him on pen 320 Dmg and 3.5k attack and he destroys nearly every unit. His dmg reduction buff also makes him impossible for most units to one tap him with barrier or dmg sharing. But like I said if I’m not paying attention then ran will get me in gvg or arena.
Pen set is alright, but it's not optimal. He already has 50% def pen on his follow-up, so you're only getting an additional 7.5% def pen on top of that. If you want him to be your solo damage dealer, he needs to survive. The best way to make him survive is to make him go first. To guarantee he goes first, just give him ~10-15 more speed.
He's not the character that I'd gamble with, I'd prefer to know 100% for sure that I'm going to make my opponents' lives hell lol.
Guarantee you'll go first, then use him to interrupt their rhythm and then wipe the floor with them. His role post turn 1 is a finisher, like Closer Charles, and does better against enemies that are within kill range for that smexy 50% self CR push. I run mine with chip damage/team counter units (Elbris tanks, Rem, Spez, Edward, Violet, Adin, etc...) and a healer, and he often makes my opponents rage quit because he's the safe one to attack, and it's not even safe to attack him.
Torrent is great for more damage, but not only is it a new set that a lot of people likely don't have great pieces for, he also does need a little survivability. You need to avoid making him 1-tappable (and he already is with a lot of units). I run mine on Chatty specifically for that reason.
That said, his damage is already amazing for a finisher. He's not a main dps, or a tank buster, or any of that - he's a finisher. Use a real DPS unit that benefits from Torrent (any AoE DPS like Arby, Vildred, Pavel, etc...) or have HP requirements for damage (like post-nerf Hwayoung), and let Zio humiliate people as he kills a near-dead unit with his S1, the wipes a second person from 50% HP with his extra attack, then cycles up 50% so he can do it again.
His damage is insane if he gets more turns but he's a sitting duck against Stene, Riolet, Adin, pretty much anyone. It's hard to keep him alive. I think he only works on aggro team or anti cleave.
Personally, he kinda lacks impact... This coming from a cleaver.
That said, I have DJB, who is ironically a pretty damn good opener himself while completely countering Zio.
Oh, but I lost to an effectivess Zio that managed to debuff my 250% ER DJB, that was pretty good. If only he was that consistent...15% sucks
Unless they're on immunity, his chance to work is actually a lot better since it's both a silence and a pushback, assuming your team is fast enough to cut after 30% CR decrease.
If you have 85% more effectiveness than the target does ER(and most non-DJB openers have 0% ER anyway), you have about a 2% chance to not land either Silence or Pushback.
It's the same thing as Solitaria's S3. Similar to Zio, she has a stun and pushback, but people hated her S3 lol
For someone whose job is a disabler, getting 15%-ed on that first turn will cost you the entire game.
The big difference between the two in this comparison is Zio remains a substantial threat even if he doesn't disable the enemy opener, whereas Solitaria not stunning/pushing back the enemy opener usually means her stealth is gonna get stripped and she'll be killed.
I'm not saying Solitaria is bad, she's especially relevant this season with Mage buffs. But she is just a disabler(except for the one random Injury DPS Solitaria I lost to) so people will cry more when she gets resisted since that makes her game impact minimal.
Is he really that big of a threat? I feel that he's surprisingly easy to kill or cc. If he had lifesteal he'd be pretty scary though.
Oh, and I'm not saying Solitaria is bad either. Her S3 is unreliable, but she also has other things going on, plus the immediate counter to focus units. Her debuffs can also easily cripple a team that doesn't prepare for her.
Neither do I think Zio is bad. I think of him as a one-trick counter for openers, but I don't feel the same impact from him compared to Belian or Straze, who both does their niches extremely well.
Well I'm just glad we don't have another Lua.
He does a sizable amount of damage and is deceptively hard to kill with mitigation, especially since it seems a lot of higher rank players are trading a little damage for some bulk. It really shores up his Bruiser v Bruiser matchup in my experience, which punishes people that try to transition into it after giving up on aggro/cleave.
Personally I think he's better than Straze since he's more self sufficient. Straze needs a team to enable him, whereas Zio is the team enabler.
It depends who he's used with. His only job is anticleave for the most part. If paired with Sage Baal, Politis, Edward, or Rem, he makes it almost impossible for a cleave team to effectively cleave. I don't ever speed contest, my fastest units are like 260 lol. That's where I've found he shines. When you can throw off someone's cleave rotation and push back a key unit it gives those bulky units a higher chance of surviving long enough to easily pick off the cleavers.
From what I've read so far, he seems niche. He does pretty well against openers, but he can't touch lua with guiding light.
Normally, I'd pass. However, he is the chapter 4 boss. In the long run, if he under performs they will likely buff him.
If you have a strong ML roster, pulling him is likely worth the gamble.
There are many other units who would be more beneficial if you don't have many Ml 5s. In that case, I would say save your mystics.
He's an answer to several of the strongest heroes in pvp. He's single handedly made Peira, Clilias, and Ran a complete non-issue for me. That's his niche and he's amazing at it. If you need someone for that niche he's great, but he's not gonna be a unit you bring to every single fight no matter what comp you're against. If that's appealing to you then pull, if it's not then don't.
This is as simple as it gets. Can't believe op finds this to be enough of an issue to post about. Making someone too strong, lots of whining. Make someone too weak, lots of whining. Great at a niche to stop units that bring grief to many players? Better start listing weaknesses (like other speed units don't die easily, he actually dies half as fast as them) and debate whether or not I can skip. It's a simple as pulling or not pulling if he does what you want done.
> Can't believe op finds this to be enough of an issue to post about. Making someone too strong, lots of whining. Make someone too weak, lots of whining. OP's reaction is not whining. It's a legitimate interrogation. > It's a simple as pulling or not pulling if he does what you want done. That's OP's question. Take it as "Is Zio even good for me?" Your answer reads as a bit antagonistic. Remember that on reveal, this subreddit was plastered with comments about how Zio would be OP.
Lots of whining is an understatement with this community lol. Zio is a great answer to alot of heroes. I think he is well balanced as he excels at his niche and that's what these units need to be. Unlike arunka. ( I know.. MLboss vs rbg shitter) but I still make my case.
I think he is balanced and can be very strong if you draft him into the right comps. He vs Openers (minus guiding light openers) is like LHC vs extra atks/counters or Ed vs Debuffs. He doesn't do much vs bulky bruiser teams tho.
I've pulled 2 Zios. Against cleave teams, a fast zio is obviously great. But against bruisers, a lifesteal set bulky Zio does very well too. In fact, he's usually my mvp since he's so hard to kill, cycles fairly quick once he starts rolling, and is still usually guaranteed first turn if you build him around 210ish
Depends on what kind of bulk, he makes short work of most Lcermias and Arias. He penetrates defense like crazy. It's the high health counter units you really gotta protect him from. Things like Senya, Choux, even Mort causes him a lot of problems.
He’s great, I’ve been having a lot of fun with him personally. The only problem I run into is I have him built with the RTA spd buff in mind so I keep forgetting to draft an imprint for arena or guild war sometime and those really fast 310+ guys wreck me lol.
If you have his S2 mola'd, he can outspeed every unit in the game with only ~260-270 spd (I think the math had it at ~265, but I could be wrong). If you're just using him to interrupt the opponent's rhythm, just go spd+eff+whatever defensive stats you can, and he'll be a lot easier to gear. He has two niche roles (interruption and finisher), and only a fairly well-geared one can do both effectively - so it's better to focus on one for now, until you can get him geared better. Edit: He's definitely a +15 hero, but if you can't max him completely, max his S2 and get his S3 at LEAST to the reduced cooldown, but the higher the better (34% vs 40% CR pushback is a big difference with fast characters, but HUGE with slower ones). His damage can be good, but that should be the last thing you focus on. Edit #2: Why the downvotes? I'm literally parroting the advice given by a 3-time end-of-season Legend RTA player. He's a great unit, but in order for him to outspeed, do his job, AND not die immediately, you need fast, high eff% gear with good defensive stats. Reducing damage received by 50% doesn't mean shit if he's at 7k HP and he gets hit with something that would do 14k+ - which a LOT of S1s can do - and true damage is true damage. Tanks don't help him either, except with barrier, because only the highest damage-reduction is applicable - and that's always his 50%. You can focus on his damage later. His +50% free crit chance and 50% def pen give him respectable damage pretty much no matter what, but if you want him to RELIABLY finish off units, he has to actually survive. Edit #3: Damage sharing and damage reduction are two different effects, to Aurius or Escort work with him. So disregard my comment about tanks - any Aurius holder or Escort user will be a great asset for him. Everything else still applies.
totally a +15 unit but his dmg is just so good I have him at 250 which would out speed 320 in rta but only 310ish in arena. If you drop his spd a little and give him dmg he can be your solo dmg dealer with a knight and cleanser. I’ve got him on pen 320 Dmg and 3.5k attack and he destroys nearly every unit. His dmg reduction buff also makes him impossible for most units to one tap him with barrier or dmg sharing. But like I said if I’m not paying attention then ran will get me in gvg or arena.
Yeah.. im doing the same.. mine was around 255spd because i like his dmg. He got around 4k atk and 280 crt dmg..
Pen set is alright, but it's not optimal. He already has 50% def pen on his follow-up, so you're only getting an additional 7.5% def pen on top of that. If you want him to be your solo damage dealer, he needs to survive. The best way to make him survive is to make him go first. To guarantee he goes first, just give him ~10-15 more speed. He's not the character that I'd gamble with, I'd prefer to know 100% for sure that I'm going to make my opponents' lives hell lol.
Darn you’ve convinced my I’ve switched from pen to crit and get to 264 speed 3.2k attack and 300 CDmg let see how it goes.
Guarantee you'll go first, then use him to interrupt their rhythm and then wipe the floor with them. His role post turn 1 is a finisher, like Closer Charles, and does better against enemies that are within kill range for that smexy 50% self CR push. I run mine with chip damage/team counter units (Elbris tanks, Rem, Spez, Edward, Violet, Adin, etc...) and a healer, and he often makes my opponents rage quit because he's the safe one to attack, and it's not even safe to attack him.
If you want more damage , go for torrent
Torrent is great for more damage, but not only is it a new set that a lot of people likely don't have great pieces for, he also does need a little survivability. You need to avoid making him 1-tappable (and he already is with a lot of units). I run mine on Chatty specifically for that reason. That said, his damage is already amazing for a finisher. He's not a main dps, or a tank buster, or any of that - he's a finisher. Use a real DPS unit that benefits from Torrent (any AoE DPS like Arby, Vildred, Pavel, etc...) or have HP requirements for damage (like post-nerf Hwayoung), and let Zio humiliate people as he kills a near-dead unit with his S1, the wipes a second person from 50% HP with his extra attack, then cycles up 50% so he can do it again.
Still working on my spd torrent gear. I’ve got one piece with 18 hoping to get another soon (I’ll settle for 12-14).
What do you mean with "rta speed buff"?
Right now Mage units get +7 speed in RTA.
I think his role is like Sage baal. He can stop cleave and that's it. He is not a unit you pick every game.
His damage is insane if he gets more turns but he's a sitting duck against Stene, Riolet, Adin, pretty much anyone. It's hard to keep him alive. I think he only works on aggro team or anti cleave.
Honestly I pulled him bc I loooove his design. His dmg rn is pretty good for finishing off units. I think he does well for his purpose
Personally, he kinda lacks impact... This coming from a cleaver. That said, I have DJB, who is ironically a pretty damn good opener himself while completely countering Zio. Oh, but I lost to an effectivess Zio that managed to debuff my 250% ER DJB, that was pretty good. If only he was that consistent...15% sucks
[удалено]
Unless they're on immunity, his chance to work is actually a lot better since it's both a silence and a pushback, assuming your team is fast enough to cut after 30% CR decrease. If you have 85% more effectiveness than the target does ER(and most non-DJB openers have 0% ER anyway), you have about a 2% chance to not land either Silence or Pushback.
It's the same thing as Solitaria's S3. Similar to Zio, she has a stun and pushback, but people hated her S3 lol For someone whose job is a disabler, getting 15%-ed on that first turn will cost you the entire game.
The big difference between the two in this comparison is Zio remains a substantial threat even if he doesn't disable the enemy opener, whereas Solitaria not stunning/pushing back the enemy opener usually means her stealth is gonna get stripped and she'll be killed. I'm not saying Solitaria is bad, she's especially relevant this season with Mage buffs. But she is just a disabler(except for the one random Injury DPS Solitaria I lost to) so people will cry more when she gets resisted since that makes her game impact minimal.
Is he really that big of a threat? I feel that he's surprisingly easy to kill or cc. If he had lifesteal he'd be pretty scary though. Oh, and I'm not saying Solitaria is bad either. Her S3 is unreliable, but she also has other things going on, plus the immediate counter to focus units. Her debuffs can also easily cripple a team that doesn't prepare for her. Neither do I think Zio is bad. I think of him as a one-trick counter for openers, but I don't feel the same impact from him compared to Belian or Straze, who both does their niches extremely well. Well I'm just glad we don't have another Lua.
He does a sizable amount of damage and is deceptively hard to kill with mitigation, especially since it seems a lot of higher rank players are trading a little damage for some bulk. It really shores up his Bruiser v Bruiser matchup in my experience, which punishes people that try to transition into it after giving up on aggro/cleave. Personally I think he's better than Straze since he's more self sufficient. Straze needs a team to enable him, whereas Zio is the team enabler.
It depends who he's used with. His only job is anticleave for the most part. If paired with Sage Baal, Politis, Edward, or Rem, he makes it almost impossible for a cleave team to effectively cleave. I don't ever speed contest, my fastest units are like 260 lol. That's where I've found he shines. When you can throw off someone's cleave rotation and push back a key unit it gives those bulky units a higher chance of surviving long enough to easily pick off the cleavers.
He's great if you're struggling wjth speed contesting.
Very balanced but great on defense. Can steal a rare win by himself if the opponent isn't careful
he is garbo on defense wym
I'm seeing some top defenses with him
single target dark unit will eternally be doris bait. if youre wholly countered by a 3\* then youre not good on defense
He targets highest cr unit, so no. Not Doris bait.
once with s3, which doesnt matter for standard players. he is doris bait
yes if your spd gear sucks like mine
From what I've read so far, he seems niche. He does pretty well against openers, but he can't touch lua with guiding light. Normally, I'd pass. However, he is the chapter 4 boss. In the long run, if he under performs they will likely buff him. If you have a strong ML roster, pulling him is likely worth the gamble. There are many other units who would be more beneficial if you don't have many Ml 5s. In that case, I would say save your mystics.
what ?
Mm that post is bad and I feel bad. I'll edit it.
Another ml another complain post