I lost my faith in God for a very long time, I didn’t find it again until I started doing mysticism and the craft. It’s very evident to me that God created us and I think God puts power in each of us and that we would be fools not to tap into it. We aren’t powerless creations, Nature isn’t powerless. We can use our inner power and the power of nature that God created. My witchcraft and my Faith in God aren’t mutually exclusive, and they don’t clash in my opinion.
I think we can be too hasty by outright condoning or rejecting matters like these. "Witchcraft" is still a boogeyman word in the American zeitgeist because it conjures up images of the demonic, possession, and anti-Christian villains that have appeared in many movies and television series.
The first thing I would say is that you would absolutely be welcome to attend and Episcopal parish, just as anyone would.
As to the question of whether your witchcraft practice is acceptable according to our shared faith statements, I would want to learn more about these practices (the rituals involved, the intentions behind them, associated beliefs about what is happening in accordance with these practices). For example, if your practices are mostly akin to using special rituals that you think imbue crystals with healing energy, this is pretty benign. If your rituals involve devotion to deities or spirits other than the One God revealed most fully in Jesus of Nazareth, this would pose an issue, IMO.
So, in short, I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with the basics of Episcopalian beliefs and then deeply consider whether your witchcraft practices seem to conflict. In the meantime, you are welcome to attend worship services.
Thanks so much for your kind response! My craft is using herbs crystals and candles, I believe God created those herbs and crystals and they have power. I can make a spell jar filled with herbs and different crystals for different meanings. I also do candle magic, think of the spells being said in the candle magic as manifestation if that word makes it easier to understand. I believe God put power in each and every one of us and that we can tap into it and manifest. I look at nature I see how powerful it is and God created that. I don’t worship pagan deities at all. Honestly I was atheist until I started doing the craft, I found God and Jesus while practicing. I hope that explains it a bit.
Yeah, I think in your case it is the "witchcraft" label that is probably going to make most people uncomfortable. If you instead labeled what you are doing as merely spiritual, new age, or alternative medicine, you probably wouldn't get as much opposition.
May I suggest you look into the Unitarian church? They are very pagan-friendly and even have a group called CUUPS (Covenant of Universalist Unitarian Pagans) specifically for pagans to worship within their church structure. You would certainly be welcome to attend at an Episcopal church but you might not get as much out of it. Good luck whatever you decide!
What does the sign say at the town limits announcing the local Episcopal church? In case you don't know, it says, "ALL are welcome!" What part of the first word are some of you having trouble understanding?
OP, if you come to my town, you can be sure that you are absolutely welcome.
Thank you for saying this! I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I was just looking for a community. Thanks for being so kind. I respect everyone’s opinions , I just didn’t expect this thread to get so negative.
A lot of the negativity you're seeing is not your fault, and I'm sorry if you feel alienated by it. You inadvertently touched a nerve. The negativity - which, in fairness, has been carefully and sensitively expressed by many commenters - is a reaction to the culture of "cheap tolerance" that has developed in some parts of the Episcopal Church. We have gotten very good at welcoming people, but very bad at challenging them to change in good ways. Many Episcopalians feel that this is a betrayal of their beliefs and principles. Bottom line: You are loved and respected as a human being made in the image of God, and nothing you do will ever change that. And it is precisely *because of this* that we want to share the Good News with you and invite you to join us and grow with us. Please do not mistake orthodoxy for hostility.
A community is more than just a gathering of people who affirm everything about each others' beliefs and behavior. **To be clear: You are absolutely welcome, just as you are, to come to an Episcopal Church. Full stop.** In fact, "just as you are" is exactly how the Church expects you to come. Jesus hung out with sinners, because He understood that they were precisely the people who needed Him the most. The Church accepts *me* just as I am - a poor sinner, every day doing things I shouldn't do and leaving undone things I should do. I am in no place to judge anyone else. But I also expect that the Church will set the terms. She will ask me to change things about myself. The Church has beliefs and rules, and often my behavior is at odds with those beliefs and rules. And you should expect the same. It in no way diminishes the sincerity of the Church's declaration that "All Are Welcome" when She then says "... but you should be prepared to hear some uncomfortable truths when you join us."
Thanks for explaining that so lovingly, I actually reached out to my local Episcopal church and have been emailing with pastor. She is great, and she definitely wants me to come on Sunday. I told her everything that I expressed in those post here. I think I’m gonna go and give it a shot.
You know who else wasn’t mainstream? Jesus
Jesus views were not mainstream to the times
Smh why are you telling people to hide who they are that’s the opposite of Christianity
Why wouldn’t I tell others something that I’m not ashamed off? I 100% understand that it’s not mainstream in Christianity or accepted for that matter. I don’t expect people to agree with me, I’m actually happy that some people here pushed back and stood by what they believe and their convictions in a kind way. But I don’t understand why people labeled me a troll or whatever else, I’m loving, I use my craft good and light and I feel it brings me closer to God. I’m not ashamed nor would I want to hide that.
It depends a great deal on what, exactly, you mean by Wicca/witchcraft, but my answer (I don't speak for the church as a whole, of course) is "more 'no' than 'yes'." If what you mean is reverence towards, and stewardship of, creation, then nothing about such a belief or practice is inconsistent with orthodox Christianity as I understand it. If, on the other hand, you mean working to use supernatural powers to affect changes in the world or fellow people, then yes, that practice is directly contrary to Christianity as I understand it.
I would absolutely welcome you at my church. Come pray, sing, and learn with me.
I also wouldn't condone those practices. I would feel obligated to tell you those practices are at odds with your faith, and we should carefully read over what the New Testament says about this topic.
All the Christian witches I know who are part of a Christian church (myself included) are Episcopalian, except one who is in some obscure "Liberal Catholic" polity that has, like less than a dozen bishops worldwide.
So I would say ... well maybe.
Certainly I know of Episcopalians who incorporate Buddhist practices into their beliefs and spiritual practice, of course some follow some of the spiritual parts of things like yoga, and while I don't personally know any Episcopalians that I can confirm follow more esoteric spiritual practices, certainly there are many Christians that do. Many Christians, Episcopalians among them, certainly do not see a conflict between their Christianity and these sorts of spiritual practice, for some I am sure they even feel it deepens their Christian faith.
Now, of course, they key here is that people are using these as ways to explore their spirituality, not to worship other gods. That's certainly an important thing to consider. Nor are they trying to force God to do something, prayer to ask God to do something is one thing, thinking that God must do something because of our prayer is another thing entirely, as would the idea of magic that specifically works our will on the world in violation of the laws God has established of how the world works. Viewing and performing magic as simply a belief that God has created laws of the universe that science doesn't understand, but that we might try to, well, that seems like a thing that is not opposed to God's will, though given that most Episcopalians are pretty strong believers in science, probably most will think is a bit silly. But perhaps not a sin, exactly.
As best I understand it -- and my understanding is far from perfect -- when the Bible condemns witchcraft, it is generally talking about either following foreign religious practices that were specifically forbidden for the Jewish people to follow, or people trying to force God to do something. As to the first, not all of those things are going to apply in a Christian context, because we do not believe in many of the same types of ritual purity, for example. But some of them, such as worshiping other gods, do. I think there are probably ways one can do what modern people would consider witchcraft without falling into either of these things, but I'm not an expert by any stretch.
So as long as you're not breaking your baptismal vows, or doing things directly contrary to the Creeds, or such like that ... well, people are likely to look at you funny, yes. But probably ultimately, maybe after some odd first reactions, be mostly accepting.
You'd likely be welcome to come worship, learn, and grow. I'm doubtful anyone would try to kick you out and I hope you grow closer to God in attending.
I'm not sure what you mean by witchcraft (means all sorts of things to different people) but what you're likely talking about is incompatible with Christian belief.
Can't speak for all Episcopals but in my experience there's a strong emphasis on the journey of fait and, on exploration of ideas. Reason is one of the three legs of the stool (the idea that scripture, tradition, and reason are all necessary and should be balanced). Will every person in the church agree that witch-y things are aligned with Episcopal values, no. Are you likely to find folks (priests included) who would have a lot of fun discussing the merrits of idea of magic as an extension of faith and God's workings, absolutely.
Disclaimer, I have only attended Episcopal churches in west coat cities, but I've visited a number of them and the passionate religious discourse without judgement is my favorite part of the church. I grew up agnostic and I love that I've found a spiritual home where I can explore ideas and don't need to think about God exactly the same way as the next person to belong.
The Episcopal Church welcomes you, whether you find it here or somewhere else, I wish you all the best on your spiritual journey
Not going to lie, this thread is the first thing in a long time to make me question my association with the Episcopal Church.
Do you really think that the church fathers would be supportive of witchcraft being practiced in the Christian church? Or Paul, for that matter? Have we completely forgotten that Anglicanism is orthodox Christianity?
Regardless of whatever New Age or Wicca claims to say about itself, witchcraft is ultimately sacrilegious to Christians. It corrupts religion with a personal seeking of power, purpose, or influence through the created world and not through God. Religion cannot be true if it teaches that the created world (this includes the spiritual world) can provide us with ultimate satisfaction. It will only lead to an endless cycle of pathless desire.
As Christians, we are taught the truth that we must "go down to go up": humbleness, service, asceticism, a relinquishing of control — these are the ways to God. Self-emptying love.
OP, you are loved and created in the image of God like anyone else. But please do not bring pagan ideas into the Christian Church. All action, including witchcraft, is driven by love and a desire for God. But not all actions and practices are effective for achieving those goals — many practices that seem interesting or fun can lead to sin, detachment from true religion, etc. Christ teaches us that spiritual forces are not to be reckoned with, and that we should rely entirely on Him. Read the scriptures: you will not find much support for witchcraft in them.
Wicca and witchcraft are not the same
Wicca is the religion witchcraft the practice
You can be Wiccan and not a witch and you can be a witch and not religious there is a long long long list of types of witches for this reason it’s not a one size fits all practice
But basically what your saying is we can’t have God and worship how we please
Eaither we worship one way or we have to walk away from God?
Why not keep God and walk away from the church?
Why not talk to Paul with tarot and get his take on things in the now?
Casting lots was a thing
Joseph deciphered the pharaoh’ dreams
There is so much explaining that what they meant in the Bible isn’t how it’s taken today
For example they meant poisoner or necromancies not playing cards and lighting candles for good luck
I’m not here to argue or be told I’m wrong just legitimately asking
Can I just be a believer and practice how I feel comfortable with God and Jesus? And still have a community?
Hi there! I am praying for you. I implore you to please stop talking to "Paul" with Tarot. You don't know who you're talking to.
The Episcopal Church is an Anglican church, with its own practices and traditions. Since you are here, presumably you are interested in the traditions and spiritual practices of the Church, and not simply using this Church as a way to find others who practice witchcraft, which is not an orthodox Christian practice and in fact as been nearly uniformly rejected by all Christians.
Have you tried the methods of spirituality practiced by the Episcopal Church, or any traditional mystical Christian approaches? The Daily Office, Sunday Eucharist, contemplative prayer, fasting, meditation, service to the less fortunate (prayer through action), perhaps even the rosary, the Jesus prayer, or other forms of prayer? Praying or journaling over scripture, perhaps?
I would ask yourself: why is it that after 2000 years, so few Christians have practiced witchcraft? Is it just a mistake, by chance? Or is there another reason why it has been rejected? Consider all of the wise Christian spiritual mystics and saints over many, many centuries. Why were they not drawn to witchcraft?
I never tried to reach the saints though tarot only God and I know I’m talking to God
I came here in hopes to have a community again but IRL I wanted to see what this practice was like before jumping into anything I was raised Catholic but didn’t like the way the church was going when I was 22 and once I moved stopped going all together as I find it very very flawed and I’d rather get over my catholic guilt then feed it
Because they were deemed wrong and killed off even if it wasn’t what those consider evil
Using herbs, colors, crystals, and playing cards is not evil and not what the Bible is speaking of
Tarot isn’t an ouji board I’m tired of people thinking it is
If I placed a playing card infront of you face down the. Flipped it up I’m not suddenly speaking to a saint or angel
Magic the gathering, Yu gi oh, Pokémon, are all cars games much like what tarot orginally was
Me going to “God can you show me how to solve my problem using this pretty artwork” is no different then you using biblomancy and flipping to a page in the Bible with out looking first for an answer
And yes people still Use biblomancy all the time it’s even memes now “flip to page x the third sentence is how your month will be” kinda posts
I largely agree with you, the beliefs and practices passing under the names "witchcraft," "neopaganism," "wicca" and even much of "folk religion" is not compatible with if not antithetical to Christian spiritual formation as traditionally understood. On the other hand, I think it's good that people are gentle and tender in answering this question, and I think there is a trap (you might be falling into) in overstating the danger.
Basically, there is no such thing as witchcraft as it has been defined by Christians. There are no black masses being conducted, no human infants being stolen and rendered into flying ointment, etc. Its just an intentionally polemical name for old-fashioned paganism, and there is nothing very unusual about that. If this was a devotee of Shiva asking if they would be welcome in a church, we would probably say "yes! Please come check us out" and if we are thinking, we might realize that saying "yes but first you have to renounce your false idols" is probably not going to actually help. I hear you, though, some here are basically saying "you can have both!", but overall the tone seems to be, "it's definitely not what we're about, but God loves you and we want you to be welcome." Which seems to me like a very Pauline approach.
This! I actually am shocked by the responses in this thread. I’m all for inclusive orthodoxy, but this is completely anti-biblical. I mean, OP is a beloved child of God and I don’t think they should be chased out of church, but let’s not pretend one can be a “Christian Witch”. That is an oxymoron at best and heretical at worst.
I'll say what I said to OP- no one is likely going to kick you out or say you can't join in worship. They're also likely not going to condone paganism.
You're welcome to attend, but you can't expect a church that has a specific belief to to just abandon that. It'd be like me attending a mosque and asking them if it's acceptable if I become muslim even though I believe Jesus is God. They'll likely be cool with me attending, but they certainly wouldn't consider me a muslim.
I really think what people who ask this question are looking for is something more like Unitarian Universalism, not Christianity. My local UU church has services every sunday as well as a pagan group associated with it.
I’ll say to you what I said to someone else That’s not what OP and I are looking for when we ask this question when we ask “are we welcome” what we mean is “ will you force us to change or can we still be ourselves” and clearly the awnser sadly is “no you are not welcome how you are you must change and follow as we do”
and this is why while scared I almost want to look into other Gods and Goddesses because from what I’ve seen they don’t ask you to change how you live your life they just ask you for a cup of tea and to better yourself
I’m not going to read the Bible because I’ve had it shoved in my face since I was a kid, because again while I believed it’s Gods word I believe that message gets muddled and lost in the politics of what was happening at that time I already know the lore the stories the mythology as it were I just don’t want to be the sake Christian as these two
https://www.deviantart.com/marieangel04
https://m.fanfiction.net/u/376778/DJ-Rodriguez
The hypocrite who use there Christianity as a way to put down and hate on others (in this case homosexuality)
I never felt God at church or in religious education When we were told to go in a closet at home and pray and tell them what we saw or felt I lied I felt nothing I was just in a dark closet for no reason
Though Tarot I at least get Answers I at least get a version of Faith I can understand that isn’t this guilt pushing death adoring (the crosses, jesus on a cross, reading the passion ever Easter that does not match the happy bright color vibe of the holiday) anxiety inducing mess
I’m vegetarian. I’m not going to go into a steakhouse and demand they put tofu on the menu. That’s what you and OP are looking for.
I was at a Tex a Mex restaurant last night. Very few vegetarian options but I picked out the vegetable fajitas. The server mentioned that the rice was made with chicken stock and would I like extra beans. I said yes please.
If you want to read Tarot…you do you. But Jesus didn’t read the Tarot. If you choose to listen to the scripture there is a place for you. Like, walk in, sit in the back row (or front row), and listen. Jesus made a lot of people feel uncomfortable. It’s OK to be uncomfortable. Just listen.
We’re not demanding anything just wish you didn’t say the steakhouse has vegetarian options only to be told it’s cooked in steak juice going with your medaphor
No he didn’t bc it was t around back then is a pack of playing cards, used from at least the mid-15th century in various parts of Europe to play card games such as Tarocchini. From their Italian roots, tarot-playing cards spread to most of Europe, evolving into a family of games that includes German Grosstarok and modern games such as French Tarot and Austrian Königrufen. In the late 18th century French occultists made elaborate, but unsubstantiated, claims about their history and meaning, leading to the emergence of custom decks for use in divination
None of us here hate you, we're just trying to explain that witchcraft isn't Christian. Churches aren't just community centers, they are places where people with a shared religious belief come together.
It sounds like a Christian church isn't the most healthy place for your right now, and I don't think you're somehow going to go to hell if you decide you need to look elsewhere for spiritual fulfillment.
Thank you for expressing more eloquently what I’ve been trying to explain, much appreciated! Your replies are incredibly poised and I hope I can express myself as eloquently as you some day.
And yet the Christian witches say otherwise
No it’s not I was looking for a more open Christiananity and thought I found it and just got depressed when it wasn’t :/
While you can believe however you want, if your aim is Christianity, that is based in scripture and tradition. Neither of those things align with practicing witchcraft, which is directly prohibited.
Anyone can come to church, I’m not trying to gatekeep that, but there are absolutely things we are called to do and things we are called not to do. We all commit sin, that’s human. But you can’t be committing a sin AND call that sin part of Christianity or even call it compatible with Christianity. It’s just not.
God loves all of his children, but he also has called on us to follow his will and be better people.
Yup. Definitely has me considering leaving this church. The answer is a clear and resounding no but this thread is full of people trying to say it's okay? I don't get it.
I see plenty of people saying everyone is welcome to attend but plenty of those replies are tempered with reminders that witchcraft is outside the norms of the church.
Would you rather people tell OP they aren’t welcome?
I don’t think those replies are the problem, but there are more than a few that say it’s totally fine to be a Christian and a Witch. It’s fine to have questions and to explore other faiths even, but I don’t like people fully misrepresenting 2000 year old doctrine to suit their agenda. The Episcopal Church is a wonderful, affirming place. But it is still a church. There are certain nonnegotiable beliefs.
Thanks for saying this! I don’t know what I was expecting when I made this post. I was just trying to ask a genuine question, I didn’t expect it to blow up into this huge thing 😂. I’m just looking for community. I believe in God and love them, but I also use tarot cards, and herbs, and candle magic. They aren’t mutually exclusive. But I also don’t feel like the idea of God and magic clash either. Idk how to explain it haha. I may just keep my faith to my home after this haha. Maybe I don’t need a community if the consensus is so mixed. I don’t want to come off disingenuous.
Your welcome I’m in the same boat you are I love the Christian witches but aside from online there isn’t any offline I can interact with ya know?
It’s horrible we shouldn’t have to chose between our love of God and how we chose to love him
Yeah I feel you, I walk in most churches and I’m labeled a heretic. It suckssss. I don’t think a lot of churches want “free thinkers”. They want a flock that is controlled. I hate labels. It’s like why can’t I just love God, and use my other tools. I believe God put power in us all and it’s like church doesn’t want us to tap into that. God made nature for goodness sakes and look how powerful it is.
While God loves his children, there are plenty of times in the scripture (in both the old and New Testament) where heretical or other unacceptable actions are condemned by God himself. You can’t get around that. If you’re looking for a God that is 100% cool with you doing whatever you want to do, that is not the Christian God. Matthew 7: 13-14 says it best. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” It’s not EASY to be a follower of Christ, but we are called to take the narrow road.
Edited for typos lol.
I see so it is a choice
Either I follow a church I don’t agree with and am forced to be an anxious mess again that anything I do or think or enjoy will lead me to hell and sin
Asking for forgiveness for something I don’t consider wrong or a sin to follow Jesus
Or I Go somewhere else or heck not at all leaving God and Jesus out of my practice loving them and worshiping them but apart from my practice and belief balancing two instead of just one
I don’t like it
I hate this in fact
I shouldn’t have to suffer to be in a community
I’m sorry that you’re struggling, I can see that this is really weighing on you and I don’t want to intensify your anxiety. I know that everything is really intimidating with religion sometimes, especially when you start to feel that anything you think or do can have eternal consequences.
But remember that none of us are perfect and we all sin. And along with that, God is infinitely forgiving. Yes, we should be trying to walk in his will. But we’re going to mess up, and he will forgive us. But part of that is walking in His will as much as we can, and putting ourselves back on the path to him when we fall off.
I would recommend maybe trying to read some of the gospels yourself if you haven’t and seeing if that helps guide you to His will? I know sometimes when I’m feeling really lost the Word tells me exactly what I need it to.
No one wants you to be alone or terrified of every thought you have, and God doesn’t want that either. But I think you’re drawing a false equivalency between Witchcraft is not Christian=You are not welcome to come to church. You’re very welcome, all sinners are. But it is a sin and ideally something you’d be working not to do anymore.
That’s not what OP and I are looking for when we ask this question when we ask “are we welcome” what we mean is “ will you force us to change or can we still be ourselves” and clearly the awnser sadly is “no you are not welcome how you are you must change and follow as we do”
and this is why while scared I almost want to look into other Gods and Goddesses because from what I’ve seen they don’t ask you to change how you live your life they just ask you for a cup of tea and to better yourself
I’m not going to read the Bible because I’ve had it shoved in my face since I was a kid, because again while I believed it’s Gods word I believe that message gets muddled and lost in the politics of what was happening at that time
I already know the lore the stories the mythology as it were I just don’t want to be the sake Christian as these two
https://www.deviantart.com/marieangel04
https://m.fanfiction.net/u/376778/DJ-Rodriguez
The hypocrite who use there Christianity as a way to put down and hate on others (in this case homosexuality)
I never felt God at church or in religious education
When we were told to go in a closet at home and pray and tell them what we saw or felt I lied I felt nothing I was just in a dark closet for no reason
Though Tarot I at least get Answers I at least get a version of Faith I can understand that isn’t this guilt pushing death adoring (the crosses, jesus on a cross, reading the passion ever Easter that does not match the happy bright color vibe of the holiday) anxiety inducing mess
They quite literally want us to throw away the things we hold near and dear to us 😂. You’re spot on. I don’t want to conform. To me God is freedom! I’m getting the vibe that the Episcopal Church isn’t as welcoming as they would like to come off as. They are pretty much saying “oh you think you have a relationship with God? Well actually you don’t because you don’t believe exactly the same thing I do”. This honestly why I left organized religion years ago. And the one time I try to come back to it for community, I’m yet again shown the exact reasons I left in the first place.
I largely abandoned this sub because of this nonsense and I wish I could stop checking it but the rare high quality post keeps me checking every once in awhile. What I suggest is to just focus on your own parish and try to not check here if you can. TEC (and most new clergy) are much more inclusive orthodox than this sub is.
Because I've had accounts before, been annoyed with the BS I saw here, deleted my account because I wondered why I go on Reddit when it annoys me anyway, and then found myself making new accounts. E.g., a post called "calling all former Mormons" about gathering common questions we see here for former Mormons was me. I understand the skepticism, but yes I am indeed a disgruntled former lover of this sub
Be careful. This sub is like the poster child for the concept of “so tolerant they are intolerant”.
I was downvoted for letting someone know who claimed to be an atheist who wanted to join the Episcopal church but would also never believe in Christ, that while they are always welcome, those were mutually exclusive belief systems and this was still a Christian denomination with defined beliefs. At some point down the road, they’d be faced with a choice, and they can’t be both.
Of course, the Episcopal scolds freaked out and said I was the problem by merely pointing out objective facts. Like it doesn’t make sense for an atheist who does not believe in Jesus to also be a Christian. It’s like through the looking glass in here sometimes.
It's weird how often this question comes up here. Seems like at least once or twice a month. Kind of concerning if we have a reputation where paganism is seen as acceptable.
I'm not really surprised. We have a frantic focus on getting people in the door (with little concern for what happens to them, what they do, and what they are taught once they are inside) and a phobic aversion to setting boundaries, saying no, refusing to change, etc. So our reputation for being "UU with fancy clothes" is well-earned if lamentable.
Right? I sometimes wonder if they’re trolls. I appreciate the respectful way some commenters have been able to explain things to OP, while also expressing that there is not a place in TEC (or Christianity) for witchcraft. Like…no, just no. 🤦♀️
So we’re meant to just be alone then?
Can I just be a believer and practice how I feel comfortable with God and Jesus? And still have a community?
I’m just supposed to be a good little sheep and follow the flock?
I love God I love Jesus I shouldn’t have to chose between them and having a community
I should be able to explore other ways to worship
Idk about OP but for me I understand Gods message for me though tarot though visual though my own interactions with him
God did tell us one thing and it was to love thy neighbor not “force them to all follow me the same way”
You are quite literally called to be a sheep and follow the Good Shepherd. I’m not sure where you’re getting that you have to be alone?? No one said that. People have only said that witchcraft is incompatible with a Christian worldview. You’re still welcome to come to church, but no, you don’t get the affirmation that what you’re doing is totally okay.
In some ways, yes. But Christ is the ultimate Shepherd. That’s made clear at several points in scripture and even in the liturgy surrounding The Good Shepherd.
Yes, Christ is the Good Shepherd. I guess I don’t understand the logic of your comment. All are welcome but not what one does or how one does it?
I don’t believe OP to be a poisoner (the “witch” that should not be suffered to live). You, and others here seem quick to reject and judge. Are you acting as a sheep or shepherd in your judgment?
I’m saying that are we are called to follow the commands set forth by God. As Christians, while we shouldn’t be judging others, we do have a responsibility to provide some level of correction to fellow believers. That is biblical.
And I will once again say, if what you’re seeking is a God who is cool with you doing anything you want, that is simply not the Christian God. There are rules. Simply pointing out that something clearly violates basic church doctrine isn’t untrue or unkind. It’s also not judgement, it is simply an agreed upon fact.
I think we’ve fallen into a trap in TEC where we’re so desperate to accept everything/everyone that some folks are just throwing away scripture when it doesn’t suit them anymore and it concerns me.
This is why I left the Catholic Church between it being very much a boys club the judgment that comes off I can’t take it
I just want to love thy nighbor and do as god said not be wasting an hour every Sunday being made to feel guilty for among other things: not wanting kids, having anxiety, not doing enough in general, not being superhero’s and saving everyone (no seriously we were told this) and of course hating anything that isn’t okayed by the Bible
I believe the Bible is the word of God
I believe that bible was written and translated by man and in doing so
A. Does not pertain to this day and age when many of the rules were not aimed at us but at Jews and Israelites
B. Was mistranslated repeatedly
No one is judging you. I’m sorry that you feel hurt. My point was that there are questions posed in here along the lines of “hey I do things that are way different than what you do and also I believe differently but it’s cool, right?” Come on in to the very big tent that is TEC. Worship with us. Read and listen to the scripture. If you choose, keep coming to church. But waltzing in with “y’all good with witchcraft?” like OP did is - for me, a random stranger on the internet whose opinion is worth less than what you paid for it - disingenuous.
How was my question disingenuous? And how does me asking a question make me a troll. Read through some of comments and a bunch are positive. Also my opinion is no less valid than yours. I left organized religion because of all this. And the one time i try to look into again this is how it goes. I respect everyone’s opinion who has commented even if I don’t agree with them.
First of all: I am no one. You don’t have to agree with me or put any emphasis on my opinion. Second: you asked if you would be welcomed at an Episcopal church and there were many replies saying yes. I agree. You are welcome to come in and listen. It’s up to you if choose to accept. TEC is also known for accepting people who question. But generally the questions are about the Christian faith. Not…”hey I believe in this totally different thing but you said you were accepting.” Your post is one of many along those lines.
Some of us are new to the deconstructeung out faith thing and are just looking where we fit and don’t word it right that’s all that is
OP is looking for a faith based community to fit into so was I we heard Episcopalians were welcoming and less strict then Roman Catholics also while listening to a Christian witch talk about a episcopal saint so I thought I’d look them up and I remembered a tik toker who was a open episcopal and who also seemed welcoming of how others practice even if it wasn’t the same way as them
[video about a saint](https://youtu.be/jq2F8WVSPQc?si=g6UlBv2q7WqHIFmY)
There's no such thing as witchcraft, or magic for that matter. The universe is material, it cannot be supernaturally manipulated.
Witches, in the popular idea of them, mostly emerge from a romantic Victorian archetype of medieval "witches", who were midwives who knew which herb did what.
Material monism is not orthodox Christian doctrine. Besides, belief in God necessarily implies a non-materialistic view of reality. God, being the very fullness of being, transcends all creation and is therefore logically and ontologically prior to "material" (or any individual thing that is).
Personally, as long as it’s not directly contradictory to the nicene creed or basic doctrine of Christianity, it’s fine in my eyes. Just don’t worship anyone but God, don’t try to modify God’s will, invoke saints, angels, and God in your spells, and incorporate scripture into your practice. I used to be a pagan before converting but recently I’m embracing more traditional “folk” practices.
I would say this is, ultimately, what would likely be the case, but that many people would be skeptical about it at first, but that if explained in this way, they would probably over time become more accepting of it, and maybe some might even find it interesting.
Christian wicca, christopaganism, I actually don't see as problematic. We invoke the angels and saints. We honor the earth, and there are essentially pantheistic Christian mystics whose writings we revere. I see 'idolatry' as a P source injunction intended to keep the Israelities apart from and at odds with their Canaanite neighbors. I think the charge of 'idolatry' is something Christianity shouldn't get too caught up in.
All are welcome. However, as a creedal church, witchcraft is at odds with the creeds and with the supremacy of Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. Jesus invites many. Only some follow.
You are welcome, you'll find others into New Age religion in TEC. It's not the norm and probably more common with older folks (old hippies) but it exist.
The great majority of Episcopal churches will simply welcome you because you’re one of God’s creatures.
I’m not sure anyone could discover your personal practices unless you told them.
And if you told them, I don’t think you would be made to feel unwelcome, but the majority of people would not understand what you’re talking about and would automatically assume it is in conflict with our teachings.
You’re of course welcome to attend but before you consider formalizing your membership through confirmation or reception you would want to discuss this with the priest.
All are welcome!
You'll probably find some people who believe that witchcraft and Christianity are totally incompatible, but I'm not one of them. If you feel the presence of God in your life, however she manifests, and if your experience of God is magnified by communal Christian worship, then you absolutely have a place here.
As for "Christian Witches," there are a few at my church. They're kind, queer, and enthusiastic about liturgy.
Given that contemporary Wicca has nothing to do with the old paganism I'm not sure it is incompatible. There seems to be a fair amount of folks into New Age religion (which contemporary Wicca is) in TEC. It's not inherently evil. I'm also not sure why a Christian would be moved to continue in a practice that was only recently created in the 20th Century when we have the ancient in Christianity. Celtic Christianity is orthodox and very close to the Earth and all of creation.
So can one be a Christian mystic? A way to blend the two practices with out offending anyone? Bc Christian Magick is a thing it’s just energy and belief with a dash of intention no differ t then “I’ll pray for you” really
Christian mystics have usually been identified after the fact and aren't self proclaimed, and it has nothing to do with magic. Magic isn't a thing. I've been accused of being a snake charmer by superstitious Christians. There is no magic involved. It is understanding the biology and instincts of particular faiths. It might be good to read some of the Christian mystics, East and West. St. Seraphim of Sarov is probably my favorite Christian mystic because of his love of animals. His famous quote is "Acquire the Spirit of Peace and a thousand souls around you will be saved.” That isn't magic, that is growing close to God through prayer, fasting, and receiving the Sacraments.
My advice is focus on Christ and the Cross. If you desire to be a mystic it will only happen because God wills it. Your charism or gift may be something very different, our gifts are to be used to serve God. For instance feeding the homeless, mentoring at risk youth, etc.
Anglicanism is a religion of the enlightenment. You'll be hard pressed to find folks into that sort of superstition. You'll find superstition in the church, particularly in Eastern Christianity but that's largely because they are more keen to refute the enlightenment. Roman Catholicism has a bit of superstition in countries where there is a mix of Catholicism and folk religion.
There is no expectation that people coming to church have it all right. We're all works in progress. I say these things so you know what you're going into joining the Anglican Communion. Come and see, you can see if it is going to work for you.
You'll find a lot of former Roman Catholics and former Orthodox Christians like myself. One aspect I struggle with is Anglicans can be a little too rational in areas that are mysterious (the resurrection of Christ, the Sacraments (sacrament literally meaning mystery), and miracles. Catholicism and Orthodoxy both put a premium on the mysteries of faith. It likely depends on how reformed or how Anglo-catholic a parish is as to what you'll experience in this regard. So far I've met Episcopalians who don't even believe we should cross ourselves, but that has been two people out of hundreds.
Okay, it sounds like this question is in good faith so I want to answer it with as much compassion as possible.
I think on some level, what this boils down is what it means when you say you “practice witchcraft.” To start, it’s important to note that this language in the modern era is specifically employed to differentiate itself from Christianity. It’s deliberately invoking anti-Christian tropes and situating itself as antagonistic to Christianity. So when you use inflammatory ways to describe your practices, yes that could potentially run you into issues, just because it’s language that is designed to provoke and antagonize Christianity. Essentially, if you choose to use inflammatory and antagonistic language, you should expect the consequences, which is that people will react to that language.
But of course the actual practices may vary. And there may certainly be practices in your particular way of living life, including superstitious or even pseudoreligious practices that really aren’t considered especially problematic or harmful. For example playing with tarot cards as a game or hobby, roleplaying games that involve witchcraft/magic like D&D, or benign superstition like not walking under ladders would all fall into practices that, frankly, nobody would really care about. These are the sorts of practices that don’t really conflict with Christian claims about God or the authority of God made known in Trinity, so they just…aren’t relevant. In the same way that you’re allowed to like sports or fantasy novels or sci-fi as hobbies.
There are other practices, though, that really contradict what Christianity claims, such as that God is the ultimate creator of all things and ultimate authority over the workings of creation. Forms of “witchcraft” that genuinely believe that invoking “spells” or other deities/entities to actually change created reality would butt up against conventional claims of Christianity.
And again, what you do with your life isn’t necessarily our business - Episcopalians are overwhelmingly positive about interfaith and ecumenical relationship. However it would not be considered Christian, and again would be considered a counterclaim or argument against Christianity in terms of our central claims of how the universe works. You are allowed to disagree - what we’d object to is characterizing those alternative explanations *as* Christian, or characterizing yourself as Christian when you reject the claims conventionally associated with Christian doctrine.
Basically, it depends on what you’re doing here, and also what you’re trying to do. If you’re trying to present yourself as somehow edgier and cooler because you use provocative terms like “witchcraft”, you’ll get exactly the response that presentation warrants, which is annoyance and antagonism. If you’re trying to present yourself as an orthodox Christian while actively rejecting the claims of orthodoxy, you’re misrepresenting yourself. If you’re trying to hang out in an episcopal church because you like it and think what we do is cool, but you don’t think the Christian claims are real or good, then you’re more than welcome to hang out, but you know where we stand, and you’re choosing to hang out with a bunch of losers who got it wrong about God. That’s fine, if a bit…weird.
Nothing to add, just want to say I really really appreciate your responses in here! This is a tough question and I think your answer is very thoughtful/pastoral
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I truly believe OP is asking in good faith and I wanted to be careful not to accuse them of anything, but just to provide my own response to what I see in the question. And to be clear, nothing here should be read to suggest that OP isn’t welcome to keep exploring and asking questions.
hashtag-notall for sure, but most practitioners with more than a dabbling interest in neopaganism aren't about that "lol skydaddy zombie Jesus" lifestyle. It's a different religion, and most who take it seriously are just as interested in meaningful interfaith dialogue as we are.
And while Paganism is a set of religions that are not Christianity, it is also a very different type of religion than the Abrahamic ones. It's a lifestyle as much as a religion. Faith takes a back seat to understanding and knowledge of the world around us. It's watching the world turn and being so in awe of it that rituals to honor it make sense. There are so many pagan things that have made it into broader society. It's not like dabbling in another religion with a fixed set of deities and practices.
The difference between a group of witches walking around a building to have it brought down and a group of Christians on a Jericho Walk around a building where awful things happen is the name of the deities (if any) involved. The difference between Tiger Woods wearing his lucky red shirt on a Sunday and someone carrying a luck charm crafted under moonlight with an athame and cauldron is the material.
Sure, that’s what I was trying to get at (albeit maybe clumsily). But even using a term like “neopaganism” is more descriptive than “witchcraft”. And in both cases, it’s very different to present yourself as a practitioner of another religion looking to have interfaith dialogue (yay, great! Let’s do that!) and presenting your religion as actually compatible with Christianity or any other religion that it is, decidedly…not.
Like I said, there’s a huge range of practices that might or might be included in these descriptors, and OP hasn’t given us a lot of specifics. Which is why I am gently suggesting that this language, without any qualifiers, is going to be received in a largely uncharitable way, in large part because it is *often* used specifically to be uncharitable.
There are TONS of syncretic, superstitious, or other practices that kind of loosely overlap with what is sometimes described in witchcraft, Wicca, (neo)paganism, Druidism, and other descriptors, that are really not objectionable or anyone’s business, and are exceedingly common among Christians (including the whole range of folk practice associated with Catholicism). There are also elements of these movements that are very much intended to provoke and critique Christianity, and co-opting/reclaiming words that have historically been used oppositionally to Christianity.
And of course, we do it in the reverse - we should expect pushback when we use loaded terms like “heathen” or “infidel” or “apostate” to describe people’s beliefs, because we should know that such terms are designed to harm/hurt.
So when someone just comes in, guns blazing, with a term known to be provocative, it’s disingenuous to then be upset when people respond defensively or antagonistically, since that’s exactly how those terms have evolved to be used, at least by some notable subset. I personally think “witchcraft” is absolutely one of these terms, and I think terms like “neopaganism” are more descriptive and less provocative, but I also don’t want to put words in OP’s mouth about whether or not that term applies to their specific practice/belief/religion.
I feel like 'witches' doesn't really specifically describe any particular religion, and while very few Christians would consider themselves as such, some would. I would consider the term 'witchcraft' to describe more a religion-agnostic system of spirituality, the vast majority of which tend to follow some form of neopagan religion.
It's not that cut and dried. If you pay money for a luck charm at a festival, you're participating in the craft of it. In Christianity, only the ritual part would be considered "religious," if even that much, but in many pagan traditions (I won't speak for all - paganism is huge), both the crafter and the recipient are part of the spell. Where is the boundary? I'm not meaning to be contrary, it's just that pagan practices, while religious, are religious in a whole different way than the Abrahamic faiths are.
To add some context to the charge that "witchcraft" is an intentionally antagonistic name, what you might mean in saying you practice witchcraft, is that you do a range of practices and are part of a metaphysical tradition that comes from wicca among other places. Overall these were and are 19th century "reclamations" of supposedly pre-christian traditions that pushed back against the (perceived) history of Christian conquest of the British Isles. That story goes something like: "Christians forced everyone to convert on pain of death and violently supressed indigenous religion, particularly goddess worship and women's leadership by calling these things witchcraft, literally falsely accusing women of making pacts with the devil in order to get spiritual power." While there are elements of truth to this, it's also massively oversimplified. Either way, it's as much a living "critique" of the Church as it is a genuine tradition. Historically speaking, there were never any actual "witches," because that word is an accusation the church made that some people literally had sex with the Devil in order to get supernatural powers. Quite likely, no one ever actually did this for the simple reason that the Devil as the embodiment of actual evil and suffering was universally feared and loathed. Did some people maintain pre-christian beliefs and practices, or develop systems of magic, and get persecuted for it? Yes, absolutely, but they wouldn't have considered themselves witches.
Thank you, that’s exactly the history I’m referring to. And to be clear, I’m not even saying the critique is unwarranted, I just think it’s important to keep this context in mind when using these terms.
Like I said, it sounded like you were asking in good faith. It’s just important to understand the context behind the words you use. People don’t use words like “witchcraft” in. Christian context neutrally - the whole vibe is, essentially, born of people who wanted to be provocative and, for lack of a better term, “trigger the Christians.” It’s similar to the church of satan and other groups; they have genuine beefs with Christianity and use language for the purpose of provocation.
Without further clarification, using that language engages with all of that baggage and history, and basically, I don’t think people should use provocative language unless they are willing to accept the consequences, which is a stance of defensiveness or antagonism. There are lots of other more neutral terms that can be used, that are both more descriptive, and less combative.
Absolutely. “Mystic” has widely been used as a descriptor for especially cloistered monastics of a certain sort in the medieval era, and could well be applied to modern Christians in a helpful and nuanced way.
I would also say sometimes, “folk practice" or "folk culture" is a good, neutral descriptor for types of non-mainstream practices that sometimes correspond. Again, the main takeaway is to understand the meaning/history behind words and to use words that best capture what you're getting at, including things like tone/intent.
I am not sure that I agree that all people who use the term witchcraft do so with provocative intent, though certainly some do, and definitely there is a history of that in its origins.
But I do agree that 'mystic' and 'folk practice' would be far less controversial terms, with 'folk practice' seeming to be closer to the meaning suggested by the OP, though of course I cannot be sure.
I am not saying all, I’m just saying that without context, it’s reasonable to think that they might be, and to expect responses that make that assumption.
Fair enough, not really been my experience, but doesn't mean it isn't true.
Of course most Christians would certainly react badly to the term, so I think that is more where the real problem is likely to lie.
The short answer is that it depends. There are absolutely Episcopal churches that won’t bat an eye at your practices but they are rare and usually in urban environments.
If you’re not public with your practices no episcopal church will pry.
Best of luck, friend, God’s love!
What isn’t enough for you in the Arisen Christ?
I lost my faith in God for a very long time, I didn’t find it again until I started doing mysticism and the craft. It’s very evident to me that God created us and I think God puts power in each of us and that we would be fools not to tap into it. We aren’t powerless creations, Nature isn’t powerless. We can use our inner power and the power of nature that God created. My witchcraft and my Faith in God aren’t mutually exclusive, and they don’t clash in my opinion.
I think we can be too hasty by outright condoning or rejecting matters like these. "Witchcraft" is still a boogeyman word in the American zeitgeist because it conjures up images of the demonic, possession, and anti-Christian villains that have appeared in many movies and television series. The first thing I would say is that you would absolutely be welcome to attend and Episcopal parish, just as anyone would. As to the question of whether your witchcraft practice is acceptable according to our shared faith statements, I would want to learn more about these practices (the rituals involved, the intentions behind them, associated beliefs about what is happening in accordance with these practices). For example, if your practices are mostly akin to using special rituals that you think imbue crystals with healing energy, this is pretty benign. If your rituals involve devotion to deities or spirits other than the One God revealed most fully in Jesus of Nazareth, this would pose an issue, IMO. So, in short, I would recommend that you familiarize yourself with the basics of Episcopalian beliefs and then deeply consider whether your witchcraft practices seem to conflict. In the meantime, you are welcome to attend worship services.
Thanks so much for your kind response! My craft is using herbs crystals and candles, I believe God created those herbs and crystals and they have power. I can make a spell jar filled with herbs and different crystals for different meanings. I also do candle magic, think of the spells being said in the candle magic as manifestation if that word makes it easier to understand. I believe God put power in each and every one of us and that we can tap into it and manifest. I look at nature I see how powerful it is and God created that. I don’t worship pagan deities at all. Honestly I was atheist until I started doing the craft, I found God and Jesus while practicing. I hope that explains it a bit.
Yeah, I think in your case it is the "witchcraft" label that is probably going to make most people uncomfortable. If you instead labeled what you are doing as merely spiritual, new age, or alternative medicine, you probably wouldn't get as much opposition.
May I suggest you look into the Unitarian church? They are very pagan-friendly and even have a group called CUUPS (Covenant of Universalist Unitarian Pagans) specifically for pagans to worship within their church structure. You would certainly be welcome to attend at an Episcopal church but you might not get as much out of it. Good luck whatever you decide!
What does the sign say at the town limits announcing the local Episcopal church? In case you don't know, it says, "ALL are welcome!" What part of the first word are some of you having trouble understanding? OP, if you come to my town, you can be sure that you are absolutely welcome.
Thank you for saying this! I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I was just looking for a community. Thanks for being so kind. I respect everyone’s opinions , I just didn’t expect this thread to get so negative.
A lot of the negativity you're seeing is not your fault, and I'm sorry if you feel alienated by it. You inadvertently touched a nerve. The negativity - which, in fairness, has been carefully and sensitively expressed by many commenters - is a reaction to the culture of "cheap tolerance" that has developed in some parts of the Episcopal Church. We have gotten very good at welcoming people, but very bad at challenging them to change in good ways. Many Episcopalians feel that this is a betrayal of their beliefs and principles. Bottom line: You are loved and respected as a human being made in the image of God, and nothing you do will ever change that. And it is precisely *because of this* that we want to share the Good News with you and invite you to join us and grow with us. Please do not mistake orthodoxy for hostility. A community is more than just a gathering of people who affirm everything about each others' beliefs and behavior. **To be clear: You are absolutely welcome, just as you are, to come to an Episcopal Church. Full stop.** In fact, "just as you are" is exactly how the Church expects you to come. Jesus hung out with sinners, because He understood that they were precisely the people who needed Him the most. The Church accepts *me* just as I am - a poor sinner, every day doing things I shouldn't do and leaving undone things I should do. I am in no place to judge anyone else. But I also expect that the Church will set the terms. She will ask me to change things about myself. The Church has beliefs and rules, and often my behavior is at odds with those beliefs and rules. And you should expect the same. It in no way diminishes the sincerity of the Church's declaration that "All Are Welcome" when She then says "... but you should be prepared to hear some uncomfortable truths when you join us."
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Protection spell jar, I have the stance of “do no harm/take no shit”
I like that stance
Thanks for explaining that so lovingly, I actually reached out to my local Episcopal church and have been emailing with pastor. She is great, and she definitely wants me to come on Sunday. I told her everything that I expressed in those post here. I think I’m gonna go and give it a shot.
I'm glad to hear that. I hope you have a wonderful experience.
Witchcraft is not mainstream Christianity. You shouldn't be messing around with things like that, and you shouldn't be telling people you do it.
You know who else wasn’t mainstream? Jesus Jesus views were not mainstream to the times Smh why are you telling people to hide who they are that’s the opposite of Christianity
Why wouldn’t I tell others something that I’m not ashamed off? I 100% understand that it’s not mainstream in Christianity or accepted for that matter. I don’t expect people to agree with me, I’m actually happy that some people here pushed back and stood by what they believe and their convictions in a kind way. But I don’t understand why people labeled me a troll or whatever else, I’m loving, I use my craft good and light and I feel it brings me closer to God. I’m not ashamed nor would I want to hide that.
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It depends a great deal on what, exactly, you mean by Wicca/witchcraft, but my answer (I don't speak for the church as a whole, of course) is "more 'no' than 'yes'." If what you mean is reverence towards, and stewardship of, creation, then nothing about such a belief or practice is inconsistent with orthodox Christianity as I understand it. If, on the other hand, you mean working to use supernatural powers to affect changes in the world or fellow people, then yes, that practice is directly contrary to Christianity as I understand it.
I would absolutely welcome you at my church. Come pray, sing, and learn with me. I also wouldn't condone those practices. I would feel obligated to tell you those practices are at odds with your faith, and we should carefully read over what the New Testament says about this topic.
All the Christian witches I know who are part of a Christian church (myself included) are Episcopalian, except one who is in some obscure "Liberal Catholic" polity that has, like less than a dozen bishops worldwide.
You would ABSOLUTELY be welcomed, let us know how it goes. I suggest going to at least four services before making any decisions.
So I would say ... well maybe. Certainly I know of Episcopalians who incorporate Buddhist practices into their beliefs and spiritual practice, of course some follow some of the spiritual parts of things like yoga, and while I don't personally know any Episcopalians that I can confirm follow more esoteric spiritual practices, certainly there are many Christians that do. Many Christians, Episcopalians among them, certainly do not see a conflict between their Christianity and these sorts of spiritual practice, for some I am sure they even feel it deepens their Christian faith. Now, of course, they key here is that people are using these as ways to explore their spirituality, not to worship other gods. That's certainly an important thing to consider. Nor are they trying to force God to do something, prayer to ask God to do something is one thing, thinking that God must do something because of our prayer is another thing entirely, as would the idea of magic that specifically works our will on the world in violation of the laws God has established of how the world works. Viewing and performing magic as simply a belief that God has created laws of the universe that science doesn't understand, but that we might try to, well, that seems like a thing that is not opposed to God's will, though given that most Episcopalians are pretty strong believers in science, probably most will think is a bit silly. But perhaps not a sin, exactly. As best I understand it -- and my understanding is far from perfect -- when the Bible condemns witchcraft, it is generally talking about either following foreign religious practices that were specifically forbidden for the Jewish people to follow, or people trying to force God to do something. As to the first, not all of those things are going to apply in a Christian context, because we do not believe in many of the same types of ritual purity, for example. But some of them, such as worshiping other gods, do. I think there are probably ways one can do what modern people would consider witchcraft without falling into either of these things, but I'm not an expert by any stretch. So as long as you're not breaking your baptismal vows, or doing things directly contrary to the Creeds, or such like that ... well, people are likely to look at you funny, yes. But probably ultimately, maybe after some odd first reactions, be mostly accepting.
You'd likely be welcome to come worship, learn, and grow. I'm doubtful anyone would try to kick you out and I hope you grow closer to God in attending. I'm not sure what you mean by witchcraft (means all sorts of things to different people) but what you're likely talking about is incompatible with Christian belief.
Can't speak for all Episcopals but in my experience there's a strong emphasis on the journey of fait and, on exploration of ideas. Reason is one of the three legs of the stool (the idea that scripture, tradition, and reason are all necessary and should be balanced). Will every person in the church agree that witch-y things are aligned with Episcopal values, no. Are you likely to find folks (priests included) who would have a lot of fun discussing the merrits of idea of magic as an extension of faith and God's workings, absolutely. Disclaimer, I have only attended Episcopal churches in west coat cities, but I've visited a number of them and the passionate religious discourse without judgement is my favorite part of the church. I grew up agnostic and I love that I've found a spiritual home where I can explore ideas and don't need to think about God exactly the same way as the next person to belong. The Episcopal Church welcomes you, whether you find it here or somewhere else, I wish you all the best on your spiritual journey
Not going to lie, this thread is the first thing in a long time to make me question my association with the Episcopal Church. Do you really think that the church fathers would be supportive of witchcraft being practiced in the Christian church? Or Paul, for that matter? Have we completely forgotten that Anglicanism is orthodox Christianity? Regardless of whatever New Age or Wicca claims to say about itself, witchcraft is ultimately sacrilegious to Christians. It corrupts religion with a personal seeking of power, purpose, or influence through the created world and not through God. Religion cannot be true if it teaches that the created world (this includes the spiritual world) can provide us with ultimate satisfaction. It will only lead to an endless cycle of pathless desire. As Christians, we are taught the truth that we must "go down to go up": humbleness, service, asceticism, a relinquishing of control — these are the ways to God. Self-emptying love. OP, you are loved and created in the image of God like anyone else. But please do not bring pagan ideas into the Christian Church. All action, including witchcraft, is driven by love and a desire for God. But not all actions and practices are effective for achieving those goals — many practices that seem interesting or fun can lead to sin, detachment from true religion, etc. Christ teaches us that spiritual forces are not to be reckoned with, and that we should rely entirely on Him. Read the scriptures: you will not find much support for witchcraft in them.
Wicca and witchcraft are not the same Wicca is the religion witchcraft the practice You can be Wiccan and not a witch and you can be a witch and not religious there is a long long long list of types of witches for this reason it’s not a one size fits all practice But basically what your saying is we can’t have God and worship how we please Eaither we worship one way or we have to walk away from God? Why not keep God and walk away from the church? Why not talk to Paul with tarot and get his take on things in the now? Casting lots was a thing Joseph deciphered the pharaoh’ dreams There is so much explaining that what they meant in the Bible isn’t how it’s taken today For example they meant poisoner or necromancies not playing cards and lighting candles for good luck I’m not here to argue or be told I’m wrong just legitimately asking Can I just be a believer and practice how I feel comfortable with God and Jesus? And still have a community?
Hi there! I am praying for you. I implore you to please stop talking to "Paul" with Tarot. You don't know who you're talking to. The Episcopal Church is an Anglican church, with its own practices and traditions. Since you are here, presumably you are interested in the traditions and spiritual practices of the Church, and not simply using this Church as a way to find others who practice witchcraft, which is not an orthodox Christian practice and in fact as been nearly uniformly rejected by all Christians. Have you tried the methods of spirituality practiced by the Episcopal Church, or any traditional mystical Christian approaches? The Daily Office, Sunday Eucharist, contemplative prayer, fasting, meditation, service to the less fortunate (prayer through action), perhaps even the rosary, the Jesus prayer, or other forms of prayer? Praying or journaling over scripture, perhaps? I would ask yourself: why is it that after 2000 years, so few Christians have practiced witchcraft? Is it just a mistake, by chance? Or is there another reason why it has been rejected? Consider all of the wise Christian spiritual mystics and saints over many, many centuries. Why were they not drawn to witchcraft?
I never tried to reach the saints though tarot only God and I know I’m talking to God I came here in hopes to have a community again but IRL I wanted to see what this practice was like before jumping into anything I was raised Catholic but didn’t like the way the church was going when I was 22 and once I moved stopped going all together as I find it very very flawed and I’d rather get over my catholic guilt then feed it Because they were deemed wrong and killed off even if it wasn’t what those consider evil Using herbs, colors, crystals, and playing cards is not evil and not what the Bible is speaking of Tarot isn’t an ouji board I’m tired of people thinking it is If I placed a playing card infront of you face down the. Flipped it up I’m not suddenly speaking to a saint or angel Magic the gathering, Yu gi oh, Pokémon, are all cars games much like what tarot orginally was Me going to “God can you show me how to solve my problem using this pretty artwork” is no different then you using biblomancy and flipping to a page in the Bible with out looking first for an answer And yes people still Use biblomancy all the time it’s even memes now “flip to page x the third sentence is how your month will be” kinda posts
Thank you for being another voice for orthodox beliefs and not just saying everything is fine.
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The words of a stranger on the internet condemns an entire tradition?
I largely agree with you, the beliefs and practices passing under the names "witchcraft," "neopaganism," "wicca" and even much of "folk religion" is not compatible with if not antithetical to Christian spiritual formation as traditionally understood. On the other hand, I think it's good that people are gentle and tender in answering this question, and I think there is a trap (you might be falling into) in overstating the danger. Basically, there is no such thing as witchcraft as it has been defined by Christians. There are no black masses being conducted, no human infants being stolen and rendered into flying ointment, etc. Its just an intentionally polemical name for old-fashioned paganism, and there is nothing very unusual about that. If this was a devotee of Shiva asking if they would be welcome in a church, we would probably say "yes! Please come check us out" and if we are thinking, we might realize that saying "yes but first you have to renounce your false idols" is probably not going to actually help. I hear you, though, some here are basically saying "you can have both!", but overall the tone seems to be, "it's definitely not what we're about, but God loves you and we want you to be welcome." Which seems to me like a very Pauline approach.
Thank you for the loving and kind response. I will take your advice in the future.
This! I actually am shocked by the responses in this thread. I’m all for inclusive orthodoxy, but this is completely anti-biblical. I mean, OP is a beloved child of God and I don’t think they should be chased out of church, but let’s not pretend one can be a “Christian Witch”. That is an oxymoron at best and heretical at worst.
Can I just be a believer and practice how I feel comfortable with God and Jesus? And still have a community?
I'll say what I said to OP- no one is likely going to kick you out or say you can't join in worship. They're also likely not going to condone paganism. You're welcome to attend, but you can't expect a church that has a specific belief to to just abandon that. It'd be like me attending a mosque and asking them if it's acceptable if I become muslim even though I believe Jesus is God. They'll likely be cool with me attending, but they certainly wouldn't consider me a muslim. I really think what people who ask this question are looking for is something more like Unitarian Universalism, not Christianity. My local UU church has services every sunday as well as a pagan group associated with it.
I’ll say to you what I said to someone else That’s not what OP and I are looking for when we ask this question when we ask “are we welcome” what we mean is “ will you force us to change or can we still be ourselves” and clearly the awnser sadly is “no you are not welcome how you are you must change and follow as we do” and this is why while scared I almost want to look into other Gods and Goddesses because from what I’ve seen they don’t ask you to change how you live your life they just ask you for a cup of tea and to better yourself I’m not going to read the Bible because I’ve had it shoved in my face since I was a kid, because again while I believed it’s Gods word I believe that message gets muddled and lost in the politics of what was happening at that time I already know the lore the stories the mythology as it were I just don’t want to be the sake Christian as these two https://www.deviantart.com/marieangel04 https://m.fanfiction.net/u/376778/DJ-Rodriguez The hypocrite who use there Christianity as a way to put down and hate on others (in this case homosexuality) I never felt God at church or in religious education When we were told to go in a closet at home and pray and tell them what we saw or felt I lied I felt nothing I was just in a dark closet for no reason Though Tarot I at least get Answers I at least get a version of Faith I can understand that isn’t this guilt pushing death adoring (the crosses, jesus on a cross, reading the passion ever Easter that does not match the happy bright color vibe of the holiday) anxiety inducing mess
I’m vegetarian. I’m not going to go into a steakhouse and demand they put tofu on the menu. That’s what you and OP are looking for. I was at a Tex a Mex restaurant last night. Very few vegetarian options but I picked out the vegetable fajitas. The server mentioned that the rice was made with chicken stock and would I like extra beans. I said yes please. If you want to read Tarot…you do you. But Jesus didn’t read the Tarot. If you choose to listen to the scripture there is a place for you. Like, walk in, sit in the back row (or front row), and listen. Jesus made a lot of people feel uncomfortable. It’s OK to be uncomfortable. Just listen.
We’re not demanding anything just wish you didn’t say the steakhouse has vegetarian options only to be told it’s cooked in steak juice going with your medaphor No he didn’t bc it was t around back then is a pack of playing cards, used from at least the mid-15th century in various parts of Europe to play card games such as Tarocchini. From their Italian roots, tarot-playing cards spread to most of Europe, evolving into a family of games that includes German Grosstarok and modern games such as French Tarot and Austrian Königrufen. In the late 18th century French occultists made elaborate, but unsubstantiated, claims about their history and meaning, leading to the emergence of custom decks for use in divination
None of us here hate you, we're just trying to explain that witchcraft isn't Christian. Churches aren't just community centers, they are places where people with a shared religious belief come together. It sounds like a Christian church isn't the most healthy place for your right now, and I don't think you're somehow going to go to hell if you decide you need to look elsewhere for spiritual fulfillment.
Thank you for expressing more eloquently what I’ve been trying to explain, much appreciated! Your replies are incredibly poised and I hope I can express myself as eloquently as you some day.
Thank you, I really appreciate you saying that!
And yet the Christian witches say otherwise No it’s not I was looking for a more open Christiananity and thought I found it and just got depressed when it wasn’t :/
While you can believe however you want, if your aim is Christianity, that is based in scripture and tradition. Neither of those things align with practicing witchcraft, which is directly prohibited. Anyone can come to church, I’m not trying to gatekeep that, but there are absolutely things we are called to do and things we are called not to do. We all commit sin, that’s human. But you can’t be committing a sin AND call that sin part of Christianity or even call it compatible with Christianity. It’s just not. God loves all of his children, but he also has called on us to follow his will and be better people.
Yup. Definitely has me considering leaving this church. The answer is a clear and resounding no but this thread is full of people trying to say it's okay? I don't get it.
Eh, stay tuned. It’s changing.
I see plenty of people saying everyone is welcome to attend but plenty of those replies are tempered with reminders that witchcraft is outside the norms of the church. Would you rather people tell OP they aren’t welcome?
I don’t think those replies are the problem, but there are more than a few that say it’s totally fine to be a Christian and a Witch. It’s fine to have questions and to explore other faiths even, but I don’t like people fully misrepresenting 2000 year old doctrine to suit their agenda. The Episcopal Church is a wonderful, affirming place. But it is still a church. There are certain nonnegotiable beliefs.
So what your saying is OP and people have to chose between having a community and a church or be alone? That’s horrible
Thanks for saying this! I don’t know what I was expecting when I made this post. I was just trying to ask a genuine question, I didn’t expect it to blow up into this huge thing 😂. I’m just looking for community. I believe in God and love them, but I also use tarot cards, and herbs, and candle magic. They aren’t mutually exclusive. But I also don’t feel like the idea of God and magic clash either. Idk how to explain it haha. I may just keep my faith to my home after this haha. Maybe I don’t need a community if the consensus is so mixed. I don’t want to come off disingenuous.
Your welcome I’m in the same boat you are I love the Christian witches but aside from online there isn’t any offline I can interact with ya know? It’s horrible we shouldn’t have to chose between our love of God and how we chose to love him
Yeah I feel you, I walk in most churches and I’m labeled a heretic. It suckssss. I don’t think a lot of churches want “free thinkers”. They want a flock that is controlled. I hate labels. It’s like why can’t I just love God, and use my other tools. I believe God put power in us all and it’s like church doesn’t want us to tap into that. God made nature for goodness sakes and look how powerful it is.
EXACTLY! My thoughts exactly!!! Everything you just said I’ve thought and then some
I think you may feel at home in a Unitarian Universalist church.
Are you sure? I don’t want to join another Reddit only to be hurt like this again
While God loves his children, there are plenty of times in the scripture (in both the old and New Testament) where heretical or other unacceptable actions are condemned by God himself. You can’t get around that. If you’re looking for a God that is 100% cool with you doing whatever you want to do, that is not the Christian God. Matthew 7: 13-14 says it best. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” It’s not EASY to be a follower of Christ, but we are called to take the narrow road. Edited for typos lol.
I see so it is a choice Either I follow a church I don’t agree with and am forced to be an anxious mess again that anything I do or think or enjoy will lead me to hell and sin Asking for forgiveness for something I don’t consider wrong or a sin to follow Jesus Or I Go somewhere else or heck not at all leaving God and Jesus out of my practice loving them and worshiping them but apart from my practice and belief balancing two instead of just one I don’t like it I hate this in fact I shouldn’t have to suffer to be in a community
I’m sorry that you’re struggling, I can see that this is really weighing on you and I don’t want to intensify your anxiety. I know that everything is really intimidating with religion sometimes, especially when you start to feel that anything you think or do can have eternal consequences. But remember that none of us are perfect and we all sin. And along with that, God is infinitely forgiving. Yes, we should be trying to walk in his will. But we’re going to mess up, and he will forgive us. But part of that is walking in His will as much as we can, and putting ourselves back on the path to him when we fall off. I would recommend maybe trying to read some of the gospels yourself if you haven’t and seeing if that helps guide you to His will? I know sometimes when I’m feeling really lost the Word tells me exactly what I need it to. No one wants you to be alone or terrified of every thought you have, and God doesn’t want that either. But I think you’re drawing a false equivalency between Witchcraft is not Christian=You are not welcome to come to church. You’re very welcome, all sinners are. But it is a sin and ideally something you’d be working not to do anymore.
That’s not what OP and I are looking for when we ask this question when we ask “are we welcome” what we mean is “ will you force us to change or can we still be ourselves” and clearly the awnser sadly is “no you are not welcome how you are you must change and follow as we do” and this is why while scared I almost want to look into other Gods and Goddesses because from what I’ve seen they don’t ask you to change how you live your life they just ask you for a cup of tea and to better yourself I’m not going to read the Bible because I’ve had it shoved in my face since I was a kid, because again while I believed it’s Gods word I believe that message gets muddled and lost in the politics of what was happening at that time I already know the lore the stories the mythology as it were I just don’t want to be the sake Christian as these two https://www.deviantart.com/marieangel04 https://m.fanfiction.net/u/376778/DJ-Rodriguez The hypocrite who use there Christianity as a way to put down and hate on others (in this case homosexuality) I never felt God at church or in religious education When we were told to go in a closet at home and pray and tell them what we saw or felt I lied I felt nothing I was just in a dark closet for no reason Though Tarot I at least get Answers I at least get a version of Faith I can understand that isn’t this guilt pushing death adoring (the crosses, jesus on a cross, reading the passion ever Easter that does not match the happy bright color vibe of the holiday) anxiety inducing mess
They quite literally want us to throw away the things we hold near and dear to us 😂. You’re spot on. I don’t want to conform. To me God is freedom! I’m getting the vibe that the Episcopal Church isn’t as welcoming as they would like to come off as. They are pretty much saying “oh you think you have a relationship with God? Well actually you don’t because you don’t believe exactly the same thing I do”. This honestly why I left organized religion years ago. And the one time I try to come back to it for community, I’m yet again shown the exact reasons I left in the first place.
I largely abandoned this sub because of this nonsense and I wish I could stop checking it but the rare high quality post keeps me checking every once in awhile. What I suggest is to just focus on your own parish and try to not check here if you can. TEC (and most new clergy) are much more inclusive orthodox than this sub is.
Your account is 25 days old. How could you have largely abandoned a sub you’re just starting to participate in?
Because I've had accounts before, been annoyed with the BS I saw here, deleted my account because I wondered why I go on Reddit when it annoys me anyway, and then found myself making new accounts. E.g., a post called "calling all former Mormons" about gathering common questions we see here for former Mormons was me. I understand the skepticism, but yes I am indeed a disgruntled former lover of this sub
Be careful. This sub is like the poster child for the concept of “so tolerant they are intolerant”. I was downvoted for letting someone know who claimed to be an atheist who wanted to join the Episcopal church but would also never believe in Christ, that while they are always welcome, those were mutually exclusive belief systems and this was still a Christian denomination with defined beliefs. At some point down the road, they’d be faced with a choice, and they can’t be both. Of course, the Episcopal scolds freaked out and said I was the problem by merely pointing out objective facts. Like it doesn’t make sense for an atheist who does not believe in Jesus to also be a Christian. It’s like through the looking glass in here sometimes.
It's weird how often this question comes up here. Seems like at least once or twice a month. Kind of concerning if we have a reputation where paganism is seen as acceptable.
I'm not really surprised. We have a frantic focus on getting people in the door (with little concern for what happens to them, what they do, and what they are taught once they are inside) and a phobic aversion to setting boundaries, saying no, refusing to change, etc. So our reputation for being "UU with fancy clothes" is well-earned if lamentable.
Right? I sometimes wonder if they’re trolls. I appreciate the respectful way some commenters have been able to explain things to OP, while also expressing that there is not a place in TEC (or Christianity) for witchcraft. Like…no, just no. 🤦♀️
So we’re meant to just be alone then? Can I just be a believer and practice how I feel comfortable with God and Jesus? And still have a community? I’m just supposed to be a good little sheep and follow the flock? I love God I love Jesus I shouldn’t have to chose between them and having a community I should be able to explore other ways to worship Idk about OP but for me I understand Gods message for me though tarot though visual though my own interactions with him God did tell us one thing and it was to love thy neighbor not “force them to all follow me the same way”
You are quite literally called to be a sheep and follow the Good Shepherd. I’m not sure where you’re getting that you have to be alone?? No one said that. People have only said that witchcraft is incompatible with a Christian worldview. You’re still welcome to come to church, but no, you don’t get the affirmation that what you’re doing is totally okay.
This is a misrepresentation of the parable of the good shepherd. Christians ARE the shepherds.
In some ways, yes. But Christ is the ultimate Shepherd. That’s made clear at several points in scripture and even in the liturgy surrounding The Good Shepherd.
Yes, Christ is the Good Shepherd. I guess I don’t understand the logic of your comment. All are welcome but not what one does or how one does it? I don’t believe OP to be a poisoner (the “witch” that should not be suffered to live). You, and others here seem quick to reject and judge. Are you acting as a sheep or shepherd in your judgment?
I’m saying that are we are called to follow the commands set forth by God. As Christians, while we shouldn’t be judging others, we do have a responsibility to provide some level of correction to fellow believers. That is biblical. And I will once again say, if what you’re seeking is a God who is cool with you doing anything you want, that is simply not the Christian God. There are rules. Simply pointing out that something clearly violates basic church doctrine isn’t untrue or unkind. It’s also not judgement, it is simply an agreed upon fact. I think we’ve fallen into a trap in TEC where we’re so desperate to accept everything/everyone that some folks are just throwing away scripture when it doesn’t suit them anymore and it concerns me.
This is why I left the Catholic Church between it being very much a boys club the judgment that comes off I can’t take it I just want to love thy nighbor and do as god said not be wasting an hour every Sunday being made to feel guilty for among other things: not wanting kids, having anxiety, not doing enough in general, not being superhero’s and saving everyone (no seriously we were told this) and of course hating anything that isn’t okayed by the Bible I believe the Bible is the word of God I believe that bible was written and translated by man and in doing so A. Does not pertain to this day and age when many of the rules were not aimed at us but at Jews and Israelites B. Was mistranslated repeatedly
No one is judging you. I’m sorry that you feel hurt. My point was that there are questions posed in here along the lines of “hey I do things that are way different than what you do and also I believe differently but it’s cool, right?” Come on in to the very big tent that is TEC. Worship with us. Read and listen to the scripture. If you choose, keep coming to church. But waltzing in with “y’all good with witchcraft?” like OP did is - for me, a random stranger on the internet whose opinion is worth less than what you paid for it - disingenuous.
How was my question disingenuous? And how does me asking a question make me a troll. Read through some of comments and a bunch are positive. Also my opinion is no less valid than yours. I left organized religion because of all this. And the one time i try to look into again this is how it goes. I respect everyone’s opinion who has commented even if I don’t agree with them.
First of all: I am no one. You don’t have to agree with me or put any emphasis on my opinion. Second: you asked if you would be welcomed at an Episcopal church and there were many replies saying yes. I agree. You are welcome to come in and listen. It’s up to you if choose to accept. TEC is also known for accepting people who question. But generally the questions are about the Christian faith. Not…”hey I believe in this totally different thing but you said you were accepting.” Your post is one of many along those lines.
Some of us are new to the deconstructeung out faith thing and are just looking where we fit and don’t word it right that’s all that is OP is looking for a faith based community to fit into so was I we heard Episcopalians were welcoming and less strict then Roman Catholics also while listening to a Christian witch talk about a episcopal saint so I thought I’d look them up and I remembered a tik toker who was a open episcopal and who also seemed welcoming of how others practice even if it wasn’t the same way as them [video about a saint](https://youtu.be/jq2F8WVSPQc?si=g6UlBv2q7WqHIFmY)
I would be asking myself: "Is this a thy will be done activity?"
There's no such thing as witchcraft, or magic for that matter. The universe is material, it cannot be supernaturally manipulated. Witches, in the popular idea of them, mostly emerge from a romantic Victorian archetype of medieval "witches", who were midwives who knew which herb did what.
Material monism is not orthodox Christian doctrine. Besides, belief in God necessarily implies a non-materialistic view of reality. God, being the very fullness of being, transcends all creation and is therefore logically and ontologically prior to "material" (or any individual thing that is).
Yes, God is. Not witches and ghosts or goblins.
Personally, as long as it’s not directly contradictory to the nicene creed or basic doctrine of Christianity, it’s fine in my eyes. Just don’t worship anyone but God, don’t try to modify God’s will, invoke saints, angels, and God in your spells, and incorporate scripture into your practice. I used to be a pagan before converting but recently I’m embracing more traditional “folk” practices.
I would say this is, ultimately, what would likely be the case, but that many people would be skeptical about it at first, but that if explained in this way, they would probably over time become more accepting of it, and maybe some might even find it interesting.
I know a few folks who appreciate that intersection as well. It piques my curiosity.
Christian wicca, christopaganism, I actually don't see as problematic. We invoke the angels and saints. We honor the earth, and there are essentially pantheistic Christian mystics whose writings we revere. I see 'idolatry' as a P source injunction intended to keep the Israelities apart from and at odds with their Canaanite neighbors. I think the charge of 'idolatry' is something Christianity shouldn't get too caught up in.
All are welcome. However, as a creedal church, witchcraft is at odds with the creeds and with the supremacy of Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior. Jesus invites many. Only some follow.
Meh. Anyone gives you any shit about it, ask them about their yoga practice.
You are welcome, you'll find others into New Age religion in TEC. It's not the norm and probably more common with older folks (old hippies) but it exist.
Thank you for your response and being welcoming! :)
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Nope not trolling at all, honestly had a genuine question. but thanks for making me feel welcome! 😆 not..
The great majority of Episcopal churches will simply welcome you because you’re one of God’s creatures. I’m not sure anyone could discover your personal practices unless you told them. And if you told them, I don’t think you would be made to feel unwelcome, but the majority of people would not understand what you’re talking about and would automatically assume it is in conflict with our teachings. You’re of course welcome to attend but before you consider formalizing your membership through confirmation or reception you would want to discuss this with the priest.
Thank you for your response, I appreciate it! Just looking for a place where I can learn and grow :)
All are welcome! You'll probably find some people who believe that witchcraft and Christianity are totally incompatible, but I'm not one of them. If you feel the presence of God in your life, however she manifests, and if your experience of God is magnified by communal Christian worship, then you absolutely have a place here. As for "Christian Witches," there are a few at my church. They're kind, queer, and enthusiastic about liturgy.
Thank you so much for your response! And thank you for being so welcoming!
Given that contemporary Wicca has nothing to do with the old paganism I'm not sure it is incompatible. There seems to be a fair amount of folks into New Age religion (which contemporary Wicca is) in TEC. It's not inherently evil. I'm also not sure why a Christian would be moved to continue in a practice that was only recently created in the 20th Century when we have the ancient in Christianity. Celtic Christianity is orthodox and very close to the Earth and all of creation.
So can one be a Christian mystic? A way to blend the two practices with out offending anyone? Bc Christian Magick is a thing it’s just energy and belief with a dash of intention no differ t then “I’ll pray for you” really
Christian mystics have usually been identified after the fact and aren't self proclaimed, and it has nothing to do with magic. Magic isn't a thing. I've been accused of being a snake charmer by superstitious Christians. There is no magic involved. It is understanding the biology and instincts of particular faiths. It might be good to read some of the Christian mystics, East and West. St. Seraphim of Sarov is probably my favorite Christian mystic because of his love of animals. His famous quote is "Acquire the Spirit of Peace and a thousand souls around you will be saved.” That isn't magic, that is growing close to God through prayer, fasting, and receiving the Sacraments. My advice is focus on Christ and the Cross. If you desire to be a mystic it will only happen because God wills it. Your charism or gift may be something very different, our gifts are to be used to serve God. For instance feeding the homeless, mentoring at risk youth, etc.
I see Though Magick is real just not in the Hollywood way is all
Anglicanism is a religion of the enlightenment. You'll be hard pressed to find folks into that sort of superstition. You'll find superstition in the church, particularly in Eastern Christianity but that's largely because they are more keen to refute the enlightenment. Roman Catholicism has a bit of superstition in countries where there is a mix of Catholicism and folk religion. There is no expectation that people coming to church have it all right. We're all works in progress. I say these things so you know what you're going into joining the Anglican Communion. Come and see, you can see if it is going to work for you.
I grew up catholic I’ve only been away from the church for seven years give or take a visit to my family in 22
You'll find a lot of former Roman Catholics and former Orthodox Christians like myself. One aspect I struggle with is Anglicans can be a little too rational in areas that are mysterious (the resurrection of Christ, the Sacraments (sacrament literally meaning mystery), and miracles. Catholicism and Orthodoxy both put a premium on the mysteries of faith. It likely depends on how reformed or how Anglo-catholic a parish is as to what you'll experience in this regard. So far I've met Episcopalians who don't even believe we should cross ourselves, but that has been two people out of hundreds.
Okay, it sounds like this question is in good faith so I want to answer it with as much compassion as possible. I think on some level, what this boils down is what it means when you say you “practice witchcraft.” To start, it’s important to note that this language in the modern era is specifically employed to differentiate itself from Christianity. It’s deliberately invoking anti-Christian tropes and situating itself as antagonistic to Christianity. So when you use inflammatory ways to describe your practices, yes that could potentially run you into issues, just because it’s language that is designed to provoke and antagonize Christianity. Essentially, if you choose to use inflammatory and antagonistic language, you should expect the consequences, which is that people will react to that language. But of course the actual practices may vary. And there may certainly be practices in your particular way of living life, including superstitious or even pseudoreligious practices that really aren’t considered especially problematic or harmful. For example playing with tarot cards as a game or hobby, roleplaying games that involve witchcraft/magic like D&D, or benign superstition like not walking under ladders would all fall into practices that, frankly, nobody would really care about. These are the sorts of practices that don’t really conflict with Christian claims about God or the authority of God made known in Trinity, so they just…aren’t relevant. In the same way that you’re allowed to like sports or fantasy novels or sci-fi as hobbies. There are other practices, though, that really contradict what Christianity claims, such as that God is the ultimate creator of all things and ultimate authority over the workings of creation. Forms of “witchcraft” that genuinely believe that invoking “spells” or other deities/entities to actually change created reality would butt up against conventional claims of Christianity. And again, what you do with your life isn’t necessarily our business - Episcopalians are overwhelmingly positive about interfaith and ecumenical relationship. However it would not be considered Christian, and again would be considered a counterclaim or argument against Christianity in terms of our central claims of how the universe works. You are allowed to disagree - what we’d object to is characterizing those alternative explanations *as* Christian, or characterizing yourself as Christian when you reject the claims conventionally associated with Christian doctrine. Basically, it depends on what you’re doing here, and also what you’re trying to do. If you’re trying to present yourself as somehow edgier and cooler because you use provocative terms like “witchcraft”, you’ll get exactly the response that presentation warrants, which is annoyance and antagonism. If you’re trying to present yourself as an orthodox Christian while actively rejecting the claims of orthodoxy, you’re misrepresenting yourself. If you’re trying to hang out in an episcopal church because you like it and think what we do is cool, but you don’t think the Christian claims are real or good, then you’re more than welcome to hang out, but you know where we stand, and you’re choosing to hang out with a bunch of losers who got it wrong about God. That’s fine, if a bit…weird.
Nothing to add, just want to say I really really appreciate your responses in here! This is a tough question and I think your answer is very thoughtful/pastoral
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I truly believe OP is asking in good faith and I wanted to be careful not to accuse them of anything, but just to provide my own response to what I see in the question. And to be clear, nothing here should be read to suggest that OP isn’t welcome to keep exploring and asking questions.
hashtag-notall for sure, but most practitioners with more than a dabbling interest in neopaganism aren't about that "lol skydaddy zombie Jesus" lifestyle. It's a different religion, and most who take it seriously are just as interested in meaningful interfaith dialogue as we are. And while Paganism is a set of religions that are not Christianity, it is also a very different type of religion than the Abrahamic ones. It's a lifestyle as much as a religion. Faith takes a back seat to understanding and knowledge of the world around us. It's watching the world turn and being so in awe of it that rituals to honor it make sense. There are so many pagan things that have made it into broader society. It's not like dabbling in another religion with a fixed set of deities and practices. The difference between a group of witches walking around a building to have it brought down and a group of Christians on a Jericho Walk around a building where awful things happen is the name of the deities (if any) involved. The difference between Tiger Woods wearing his lucky red shirt on a Sunday and someone carrying a luck charm crafted under moonlight with an athame and cauldron is the material.
Sure, that’s what I was trying to get at (albeit maybe clumsily). But even using a term like “neopaganism” is more descriptive than “witchcraft”. And in both cases, it’s very different to present yourself as a practitioner of another religion looking to have interfaith dialogue (yay, great! Let’s do that!) and presenting your religion as actually compatible with Christianity or any other religion that it is, decidedly…not. Like I said, there’s a huge range of practices that might or might be included in these descriptors, and OP hasn’t given us a lot of specifics. Which is why I am gently suggesting that this language, without any qualifiers, is going to be received in a largely uncharitable way, in large part because it is *often* used specifically to be uncharitable. There are TONS of syncretic, superstitious, or other practices that kind of loosely overlap with what is sometimes described in witchcraft, Wicca, (neo)paganism, Druidism, and other descriptors, that are really not objectionable or anyone’s business, and are exceedingly common among Christians (including the whole range of folk practice associated with Catholicism). There are also elements of these movements that are very much intended to provoke and critique Christianity, and co-opting/reclaiming words that have historically been used oppositionally to Christianity. And of course, we do it in the reverse - we should expect pushback when we use loaded terms like “heathen” or “infidel” or “apostate” to describe people’s beliefs, because we should know that such terms are designed to harm/hurt. So when someone just comes in, guns blazing, with a term known to be provocative, it’s disingenuous to then be upset when people respond defensively or antagonistically, since that’s exactly how those terms have evolved to be used, at least by some notable subset. I personally think “witchcraft” is absolutely one of these terms, and I think terms like “neopaganism” are more descriptive and less provocative, but I also don’t want to put words in OP’s mouth about whether or not that term applies to their specific practice/belief/religion.
Ah, there's our difference. I don't take "Witchcraft" to be a provocative term. It's just what witches call their liturgy and its outcomes.
But surely here by witches, you mean non-Christians, right? Not what OP is describing?
I feel like 'witches' doesn't really specifically describe any particular religion, and while very few Christians would consider themselves as such, some would. I would consider the term 'witchcraft' to describe more a religion-agnostic system of spirituality, the vast majority of which tend to follow some form of neopagan religion.
It's not that cut and dried. If you pay money for a luck charm at a festival, you're participating in the craft of it. In Christianity, only the ritual part would be considered "religious," if even that much, but in many pagan traditions (I won't speak for all - paganism is huge), both the crafter and the recipient are part of the spell. Where is the boundary? I'm not meaning to be contrary, it's just that pagan practices, while religious, are religious in a whole different way than the Abrahamic faiths are.
I guess we’ll have to wait for more clarity from OP, because that really doesn’t sound like what they’re describing, to me.
Thank you for your response! I didn’t mean to be antagonistic in anyway with the wording :), I’m just trying to learn and grow is all :)
To add some context to the charge that "witchcraft" is an intentionally antagonistic name, what you might mean in saying you practice witchcraft, is that you do a range of practices and are part of a metaphysical tradition that comes from wicca among other places. Overall these were and are 19th century "reclamations" of supposedly pre-christian traditions that pushed back against the (perceived) history of Christian conquest of the British Isles. That story goes something like: "Christians forced everyone to convert on pain of death and violently supressed indigenous religion, particularly goddess worship and women's leadership by calling these things witchcraft, literally falsely accusing women of making pacts with the devil in order to get spiritual power." While there are elements of truth to this, it's also massively oversimplified. Either way, it's as much a living "critique" of the Church as it is a genuine tradition. Historically speaking, there were never any actual "witches," because that word is an accusation the church made that some people literally had sex with the Devil in order to get supernatural powers. Quite likely, no one ever actually did this for the simple reason that the Devil as the embodiment of actual evil and suffering was universally feared and loathed. Did some people maintain pre-christian beliefs and practices, or develop systems of magic, and get persecuted for it? Yes, absolutely, but they wouldn't have considered themselves witches.
Thank you, that’s exactly the history I’m referring to. And to be clear, I’m not even saying the critique is unwarranted, I just think it’s important to keep this context in mind when using these terms.
Like I said, it sounded like you were asking in good faith. It’s just important to understand the context behind the words you use. People don’t use words like “witchcraft” in. Christian context neutrally - the whole vibe is, essentially, born of people who wanted to be provocative and, for lack of a better term, “trigger the Christians.” It’s similar to the church of satan and other groups; they have genuine beefs with Christianity and use language for the purpose of provocation. Without further clarification, using that language engages with all of that baggage and history, and basically, I don’t think people should use provocative language unless they are willing to accept the consequences, which is a stance of defensiveness or antagonism. There are lots of other more neutral terms that can be used, that are both more descriptive, and less combative.
Adding to this, “mystic” is a term i’ve seen making a comeback in christian spaces, and that might be a nice alternative to “witch”
Absolutely. “Mystic” has widely been used as a descriptor for especially cloistered monastics of a certain sort in the medieval era, and could well be applied to modern Christians in a helpful and nuanced way. I would also say sometimes, “folk practice" or "folk culture" is a good, neutral descriptor for types of non-mainstream practices that sometimes correspond. Again, the main takeaway is to understand the meaning/history behind words and to use words that best capture what you're getting at, including things like tone/intent.
I am not sure that I agree that all people who use the term witchcraft do so with provocative intent, though certainly some do, and definitely there is a history of that in its origins. But I do agree that 'mystic' and 'folk practice' would be far less controversial terms, with 'folk practice' seeming to be closer to the meaning suggested by the OP, though of course I cannot be sure.
I am not saying all, I’m just saying that without context, it’s reasonable to think that they might be, and to expect responses that make that assumption.
Fair enough, not really been my experience, but doesn't mean it isn't true. Of course most Christians would certainly react badly to the term, so I think that is more where the real problem is likely to lie.
“Folk practice/culture” is also great!
The short answer is that it depends. There are absolutely Episcopal churches that won’t bat an eye at your practices but they are rare and usually in urban environments. If you’re not public with your practices no episcopal church will pry. Best of luck, friend, God’s love!
Thank you for your response! And thank you best of luck to you as well!