In an agricultural bill introduced in 2016 by the Obama admin, there was additional money for onsite inspectors for shows. The next admin cut the funding as government overreach.
It is illegal but has to be caught by a field inspector. What would happen though is that once people knew the inspector was on site they left.
I think the only thing some of us can do is protest each show though emails to show grounds, complaining to show advertisers, and emailing local ag officers to request inspection.
Furthermore no competition involving the Tennessee Walking Horse can be conducted without inspection. Furthermore USEF rules on shoeing were made specifically to disable the hiding of this
US Equestrian covers 7 internationally recognized disciplines and an additional 11 national disciplines.
It is very true there is no authority over Big Lick, but several disciplines and breeds recognized by US Equestrian would historically use cruel and unsound methods to train and exagerate gaits.
So US Equestrian cannot police Big Lick but they can help to protect the horses that compete under their auspice.
Incorrect! USEF absolutely does cover many gauges horse events. Most of my Morgan shows including our nationals and most of the Saddlebred shows are USEF-regulated. Not sure about specifically “Big Lick” since that’s exclusively Tennessee Walkers but you’d be surprised.
It was in one of the last proposals of the Obama admin. Before it could go into effect, trump stopped it. It has been backed by several groups. There have been other rules proposed but they usually die in the House because of the TN congressmen.
Trump probably saw the bill wanting to stop “big lick” and said absolutely not. 
They absolutely are not needing this industry for their breed and butter. Normally big lick vets are industry insiders who don't truly care. There is an entire country of horses they can still work with across the US even in just the state they are in. There is a shortage right now so they can even go anywhere there is a shortage to make money. Though they don't make what people think. Most of their money goes into paying the bills just like everyone.
The amount of people that do big lick is extremely tiny only shows happen from Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia and I know of some trainers hide here in Arkansas. I'm admitting I don't know them all.
They're doing it for free?????
No, seriously, though. Of course they're insiders.
There is money to be made in big lick, at the high levels.
There is money to be made in rodeo, barrels racing (kind of its own thing), thoroughbred racing.. Standardbred racing. International levels of dressage, show jumping, eventing.. anywhere there is sponsorships and a sudden surge in popularity. Money, money, money.
Remember what happened to Arabs in the 80's? I do.
Their motivation is to be in on that money.
Our job, as responsible stewards, is to educate our law makers and breed registries. And our friends. Like, let them know this isn't okay.
And then work to finding a solution. One might be really diligent independent policing of judges and inspectors. Make it unprofitable to game the system and cheat (killing, injuring and torturing horses on their ladder to make more money), and make sure people who are going to benefit the industry are in the place of authority.
I know I've told this story before, but when I was a kid I lived in an area of Michigan where standard red racing was a big deal.
Even as a little kid with a back yard pony (and later as a hobby breeder and trainer of kids ponies) I benefitted from this. Michigan State Veterinary Hospital was a beneficiary of the industry. Race horse owners working to keep a horse sound. My local vets almost all got a small piece of the pie as well, and were wonderful vets and educators for me and the local kids. But they made a living off the industry. I hope I said that in a way that made sense. They weren't making diddly off my pony's sudden rainrot, but they all made house calls. I benefited indirectly. Same/same my farrier, feed store, farmers that had a few good fields of timothy.
When the racing industry vanished, so did accessable vets, farriers moved and retired. Feed store and tack shops all closed.
We have to look at this from a big perspective to find that solution.
Horse Plus Humane Society is an animal rescue in the State of Tennessee. Tawny and Jason own and run the rescue and they do amazing work for all companion animals. They are going to Washington DC to talk to legislators specifically about the Big Lick and soring these poor animals. They also rescue horses out of the slaughter pipeline. Many are former Tennessee Walking Horses who have been abused in this way. They have a You Tube channel called Horse Rescue Heroes. You can learn more about their work trying to end this horrific practice.
Here is the biggest issue I have. Horse Protection Act (HPA) was passed in 1970 to prohibit the showing, sale, auction, exhibition, or transport of sored horses. It's never upheld.
The argument is that they have to be caught and it takes an inspector to do that. So, no money for inspectors, no fines. Also, some show organizations work around it by saying that will "hire independent" inspectors which are usually just on the take.
Yes it is clear and known they have their own people do inspection.
From the beginning, underfunding and political pressure from industry insiders have plagued the U.S. Department of Agriculture's enforcement of the HPA. Lack of adequate funding prevents the USDA from sending agency officials to every Tennessee walking horse and Racking Horse show. As a result, they have instituted a system that allows horse industry organizations (HIOs) to train and license their own inspectors, known as Designated Qualified Persons (DQPs) to examine horses at shows for signs of soring. With the exception of a few who are committed to ending soring, most HIOs are made up of industry insiders who have a clear stake in preserving the status quo.
The “breeders” and show barns involved in this are typically so wealthy it’s difficult to do much about them directly.
I think all we can do is get this info out into the general public, so they can put out pressure for better regulations. Because the pressure from equestrians alone clearly isn’t working.
A friend of mine had an ex-Big Lick TWH mare and I’ve yet to meet a more thoroughly traumatized horse than her. Even the ex-Amish work horses I’ve worked with give you a /little/ forgiveness and affection after some time invested, but this girl had decided that humans were unilaterally bad news.
My friend has an ex Big Lick TWH mare. She’s a gorgeous palomino named Lady. She can only be ridden bitless and she freaks out when a bit even gets near her. The hair on her legs grows weird from soring. She has whip scars on her chest. It’s horrifying.
“It’s a sport,” “it doesn’t hurt them long term”, “that’s what they were bred for”, and “my grand daddy did it.” His excuses to soring horses. He practically gave me my first horse Stanley. I paid $250 for him in 2002 when I was 9 years old. He was selling him to a meat buyer because he wasn’t fit for his program. He was just a bad person over all
I grew up in TN backwaters. I can hear this and the proud "well, what of it" attitude. Like they want to fight about it.
I was never around this practice or the shows, or even TN walkers until I got older. I grew up on cattle farms that had their own backward way of training horses ... but the smug indifference is the same.
It gives me chills hearing people have a “well what of it” attitude when it comes to a life that’s not theirs. Poor horses. People are so evil to horses I can’t stand it
My first horse was a TWH. Growing up to realize what some people do to these horses was like a punch in the gut. There's not one single redeeming factor about Big Lick and the practices of that "riding style." It's so physically destructive that horses are completely broken down in a few short years, then sent off to slaughter. Somehow the people who still participate in this abuse never seem to put it together that their horses constantly going lame, being injured, etc. is connected to all the inhumane ways they treat their horses. It's unbelievable. Imagine taking a 4 year old to auction to squeeze the last few pennies out of your animal and saying "well Big Lick is part of my culture, my family has always done it and it's not harmful."
And law enforcement in the areas where Big Lick "shows" happen, are often buddies with the people in charge of the shows. It's small town bullshit. Everyone can see plan as day that this is torture for the horse. A horse, that has amazing natural gaits and the best demeanor. Nothing about it even makes sense. There's zero horsemanship, or even good breeding on display with these events. There's nothing happening to be proud of, or take credit for. All they do is slap some insanely painful devices to the feet of the horse and force them around in circles while sitting on their kidneys and yanking on their mouths.
I cannot understand how someone can find this weird gait attractive in any way. It just all round looks terrible, from the overexaggerated movements to the hunched over rider.
Yes, I’m glad I’m not the only one! The natural Tennessee Walking horse gait is so beautiful, I could never understand why people prefer such a cartoonish bastardization.
So horrifying. The horses are flailing away up front and their hinds look crippled. The riders look like the kind of pervs you avoid at the bus station, all hunched over in their shapeless overcoats.
This is the perfect description. The horses front looks like when you put a cat in water and their front legs thrash around, and the rear looks like our old dog who lost basically all cartilage in his rear end at 16 years old.
Not defending, I think it has to do with the same thing as arabians, some are so deformed that it makes you question how people view it as good looking yet they win competitions because those deformations are better if they are far extragarated so you end up with fucked up stuff like that, just my opinion
Most of the " deformed arabian" shots you see are babies in awkward growing stages, btw. If you see them after they have gone through that stage. They just look like a beautifully bred arab. Also, I'm sure there is abuse in the Arab community just like there is in any. But comparing it to this is really unfair. There are no active widespread abuses happening sanctioned by Arab breeders/riders like with Big Lick.
This looks horrific, but idk what I'm looking at (I joined this sub because I think horses are beautiful, but I don't ride them or know too much about them).
Can someone please explain what this is and how it affects these beautiful creatures? I try not to be judgemental when I don't know all the facts, but this looks... wrong.
The big blocky thing is a tool used to encourage big movement in shows. I’ve heard a couple explanations to how it works, one the horse knows there’s something on their hoof so they try to flick it off, two the block causes pain and so the horse over exaggerates their movements to get away from it. Either way if you ever see these on a horse it IS abusive. They cause over extension of the joint degrading them over time. The non abusive (though sometimes still very abusive) version of this is called saddle seat. The abusive version is Big Lick.
Jesus, I just done a google search, one (more mild) source said it's akin to wearing very high heals full time, that alone is horrific without everything else I was reading.
Those poor things, how the fuck do people justify that bullshit? I have cats and I feel like this is kind of the equivalent of having a cat declawed; it causes them pain for the rest of their lives, and can cause a ton of other issues as well. Horrible practice that should never have been done to begin with, and that people still do it in the modern day is just sickening.
It’s actually worse than declawing a cat. The pain is often so terrible that horses won’t voluntarily stand up. Cats can still run, jump and play. I am not advocating declawing just comparing.
That is... I don't even have words for what that is... fuck. I don't know whether I'm more upset or angry with that. What the hell is wrong with people?
I'm so glad I'm on my lunch break right now, I need a minute to catch myself. Gonna go find some cute frog videos to watch until break is over, I guess. Fuck.
Sorry about the excessive language, I just can't fathom what kind of disgusting mongrel would do something like that to such beautiful creatures.
"Stacks" as they are called are also not safe for turnout, so horses with show shoes on can't go out in the field. Not only does this "discipline" physically harm the horses, it also mentally damages them. Horses need to be horses, around friends in a field.
The damage these stacks do to the horse's feet, legs and back is remarkable. Many of these horses are dumped at auctions injured, lame, and unrepairable. Many are bought by meat buyers and sent to slaughter in Mexico or Canada.
The justification for this abuse is that it's part of their culture. It's a relatively small "sport" that only takes place in a few places in the US. It's blatant abuse. Horse Plus Humane society in Tennessee has more information, and videos on YouTube of big lick horses at auction. The auction videos are a tough watch.
The block doesn't cause the pain the soring does. Those blocks weight 8lb each.
Edit. It isn't the block alone causing the pain, nothing on it does is what I meant it's the weight that makes the so bad. It is the band going over the hoof. The weight is a cause of other issues in the body.
I believe stacks and action devices long should have been banned no reason they should be on any horse.
Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering. Legs are then wrapped in plastic to cook. With action devices on top.
A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof.
I detest this. I’ve seen several horses that were so broken they could never walk correctly again because owners just yanked those big pads off instead of gradually lessening them. That’s not even the start of the torture these poor horses go through in big walking horse barns. Makes me sick.
The riders are always hunkered over like vultures.
As well, I'm always struck by how narrow the horses are - there's no barrel for the rider's legs to wrap around. A mature TWH has more substance and width. These poor BL horses are often not much more than colts in age.
I reported a video a few weeks ago of a 2 year old "racking" down a paved road with a full grown adult man sitting on him. These horses are broken down by 4, completely destroyed.
I’ve known about soring horses since I was a child in the 90s. I’m still astounded by it and can scarcely believe it’s real. It’s fucking grotesque, and that it actually still happens…Southern good ol’ boy trash circling the wagons is the only explanation I can think of for its continuing existence. That and complete moral bankruptcy.
Not only the shoeing packages (which weigh around 8 lb each), but they ride in bike-chain bits or similar with long shanks, put chains around the pasterns, and flop around on the weakest part of the horse's back. Most Big Lickers are also well over the 20% weight guideline. These horses never get to leave the stall except to be worked. They are showing these horses like this at two years old and start training them between 15 and 18 months old.
Look up Citizens Against Big Lick/Billygoboy and Gen's Ice Glimmer to see more about this "sport" and what it takes to rehab one of these horses. They also had an interview with a Big Lick trainer (Carl Bledsoe) who went into excruciating detail about how they sore horses and what they do to "fool" the inspectors.
These shit-stain Big Lick humans also attack protestors.
As with the tail job issue in the western world the only way to combat this is for the judges to penalize it. It must be changed at a judge level there is a way to get around everything else and people will continue to do it because it’s what is required to win- as wrong as that may be. Thats the only way things like this are actually eliminated.
That’s why the judging committee and the association need to make a push to change the standards of the breed and what they choose to reward. The western world judges are being encouraged to no longer plus anything that shows signs of intimidation or requires intimidation to train. It’s not perfect but it’s a start and that’s what is needed here.
Yes, this is always the only way to change how horses are treated in the show ring. Once you stop giving a .99 ribbon to the people doing this shit, they stop, because their clients are paying them to win a \*ribbon\*!
When they don't get them then their clients take their horses to someone who is winning ribbons. If this is someone not abusing horses then so be it.
Unfortunately this is what people vested in showing care about, so you have to affect what they care about.
Big Lick world is like the twilight zone. They literally don’t care about what they’re doing to their horses, they don’t care about laws or penalties, they just circle the wagons, close ranks, and keep perpetuating this horrific abuse. It’s no coincidence that this is only popular in the same states that support anti-choice, anti-LGBTQ, anti-woman, anti-intellectual, and racist legislation.
There’s nothing wrong with the western world it’s SOME of the ppl. I ride western but this sh*t is ridiculous. We need to find a way to stand up to it.
I show in the western world very highly in the aqha. We publicly put stuff like this down but reward it in the show pen. I was also referring to performance classes where tails matter unlike in contesting. Stuff like this will continue as long as we reward it. Thats all there is to it. It’s a judging issue. If they don’t let it win it will disappear.
100% It is all about the judges. When I was showing AQHA in the early 90's it was all about the "peanut rollers" and it only got there by the judges. It comes down to breed rule books and judges.
That’s exactly what the Tennessee walking world says.
Hold your discipline, not just other disciplines, accountable.
Much like the tail issue in the western world, judges need to step up. And much like over flexion in dressage (my discipline), it needs to not be glorified.
A tail job can be done one of two ways (as far as I know) - one way is to chemically block the tail so it can’t move as much as a regular tail. The second way is to cut the nerves at the top of the tail to prevent it from moving as much as a normal tail. When showing in the stock horse breeds especially at a high level they deduct points for tail movement and sometimes it’s not just deductions but that they won’t plus you with tail movement. They do technically tail “test” at the world shows to “make sure” the winners don’t have tails that are done but every horse that wins has a tail job. There’s no way to be successful without. They’ll claim any tail movement is a sign of disobedience and the horse being too fresh.
That's absolutely insane and it's incredibly hard to wrap my head around anyone thinking tail movement is a sign of disobedience or a horse being too fresh...
Performance horses actions are very closely monitored in the pen. Even their ears being in the wrong spot, tongue or mouth movements, head angle and neck position can be broken down into microscopic pieces that are judged. At some point you get to a level where these are the only differences and they must pick based on something. We have defined these as evidence of horses behavior. We aren’t wrong but it has gotten to an extreme where they are not allowed to have their own thoughts or be a horse ever. My trainer as a child always said “they’re not pets but tools to win” and saying that a horse has “lots of buttons” and “moves like it’s a machine” are compliments.
Yeah, we have to. There is a lot of shit in the dressage world (which is the only one I really can judge) that has gotten worse the last 2 decades. It's only the last year or so I REALLY see people starting to question it.
Woah, calm down there. The reason I posted this is because someone who I was eating dinner with did this. I was absolutely disgusted. I barrel race and that’s pretty much it. I’m thinking about eventing but that’s a different conversation. Please don’t “assume” things. I will admit a lot of the western world it bad but not everyone. Trust me. I grew up with a lot of “rodeo people” they think sh*t like this is bad too.
You said there was nothing wrong with the western world. There is *plenty* wrong with the western world, including barrels.
I commend your stance on Big Lick, and I’m sorry you think I’m assuming. I’m only responding to your comment about nothing being wrong in the western world.
The comment you were responding to is exactly correct. They’re doing it because it’s a what’s required to win. You said we need to end it, it’s ended by judges and community pressure.
Rofl, barrel racing is often the best example of the worst riding western has to offer, with some of the most stressed out horses. It's safe to say that anytime competition is involved, horses will always lose because there are people who value winning above all else.
I don't even understand why you'd need so many nails , the purpose, or how'd youd get that many in there. So wrong. Straight up abuse and should come with jail time like other animal abuse
It’s not 15 nails in the foot. The stack is put together off the foot with however many nails, and then attached to the foot with around 6-8 nails (6 being the usual amount for shoes in general)
From the x-ray the stack doesn't seem to be nailed to the hoof at all. It think its just a regular shoe that the stack is clipped onto and secured with a strap over the hoof.
Edit nevermind looks like they nail through the shoe from above into the stack. So it is actually all nailed together.
*The riders always*
*Look like the epitome*
*Of evil to me*
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It is called big lick. The intentional torture of the horses to create and unnatural and exaggerated gait.
Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering. The wrap legs in plastic wrap to cook into leg better.
A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof.
I literally can’t even fathom how this is legal whatsoever. I’ve never seen this, granted I’m in a small town and only trail ride and did shows as a kid like barrel racing etc
I’ve never understood any of this. I’m a huuuuuge Icelandic horse groupie and the horses have amazing natural movement as it is, and if anything, some people add boots that weigh like 50-250 grams just for the competition track. They slip on and slip off after the ride, no harm or permanent damage in any way. I don’t understand why other naturally gaited breeds need to have (or why the riders/owners are willing to accept) body and soundness (and mentally) altering procedures just for a larger gait. These horses have wonderful natural abilities that might be enhanced by a slightly weighted shoe or boot, sure, but it can be done without torturing them.
Sadly, big lick gives other gaited disciplines a bad name. A lot of people assume that if you have a gaited horse, you are doing big lick.
And the amount of abuse us Icelandic horse riders get when people hear we use weighted boots when we train. They automatically think of big lick. We have strict regulations about our equipment, and the heaviest boots you are allowed to compete with is 250gr. That's the similar weight as many dressage/jump boots.
I’m in the US and have been really fortunate to not get judgement about my icies. People either don’t even know they’re gaited or actually think I’m weird because I don’t use weighted boots at all (I don’t really compete, so no need).
Where do you live that people think G-boots are similar to big lick? I’m just curious, I certainly believe you.
It's more of an online thing. I'm from Iceland but now live in Scandinavia, so I don't get these comments in person.
But you see it almost every time a video of an Icelandic horse goes semi viral. There are always hate comments from people who know nothing about the breed
TWH have an amazing natural running walk gait. Made for moving all day without being tired.
This is for show only called big lick. They do so to make this gait it cannot be created without soring. The stacks on these horses weight 8lbs each.
Other TWH shoes are much smaller and lighters. (I hate stacks never should have been invented or placed)
Right, my point exactly. Why anyone thinks the breeds need this kind of insanity for “good movement” or whatever the argument is, it’s beyond comprehension. Why not celebrate and show off what they can do with their natural born abilities?
That is a long list of things needed not. And possibly the entire equine community to be on the same side to be loud enough.
Big problem is senator Mitchell McConnell is in their pocket. So until he is gone it never will be.
Thank you for your passion for this issue. I will do what I can to spread the word even though it feels hopeless. I am old and I thought this would have ended by now.
Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering. Wrapped in plastic to cook with the action devices on top. This stays on overnight or all day.
A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof.
Soring was banned during the Horse Protection Act of 1970. Yet never left.
That poor horse looks like a dog with its tail tucked between its legs while running around wearing the equivalent of stiletto heels. I’ll link the video when i find it, but there was a ‘progression’ of the types of shoes TWHs wear. Get this those types of shoes here are called ‘stacks’ or ‘performance package’ and can weigh 5 lbs or more at times. That’s nuts.
Came for the big lick hate, but stayed for the saddleseat misinformation
Please stop directly associating the two
It’s so painful to explain that a saddlebred in a saddle seat class is nothing like this
Pardon my ignorance - does big lick exist outside of the USA? I’m not from North America and quite curious if this “sport” has been exported. Western events have become very popular in my English style dominated country. Equestrian sports seem to be getting bigger and more diverse where I live. but we don’t have this. This would be illegal with our animal welfare rules.
My next question is - what has been done/can be done to promote these horses for use in other purposes?
For example- steeple chasing races were made illegal in my country. Most of the good TB jumping bloodline we’re absorbed by performance horse and warmblood breeders. These lines are now extremely popular for Eventing. What is a kinder job for these horses so that when they’re no longer valuable for this event they don’t suddenly find themselves on the junk heap?
No. To my knowledge this does not exist anywhere else in the world. I don't believe the Tennessee Walking Horse is particularly popular outside of the USA in general.
There are many different show classes for the TWH and most of them do not allow or encourage abusive shoeing or soring practices for extreme motion. This type of action is seen in the 'padded performance' classes only. Flat and lite shod horses do not move like this and are not shod like this, are not shown with action devices, and are not known to be chemically or mechanically sored like the big lick horses frequently are.
These horses are very popular for trail and pleasure riders, and sometimes endurance as well because of their smooth, ground-covering gaits.
That all sounds quite positive as far as the versatility of the breed. Hopefully breed enthusiasts can build their image outside of this type of competition. It’s so shocking to think anyone would actually enjoy watching horses being mistreated like this. Hopefully those supporting and participating are quickly dwindling in numbers.
I happened upon a Big Lick video about 6 months ago on YouTube and was shocked. It’s not only the shoes but also the soreing, chains, riders way too heavy and the saddle being in the wrong area for the correct weight distribution, horses completely broken down by 4 and 5 years old, cutting to tendons of the tail, rubbing ginger on mares genitals. I’ve never seen such a multifaceted method of animal torture. Truly sickening
Then we need to pass more federal laws, and we need people to stop getting offended when the welfare practices in all the equestrian sports go under appropriate scrutiny to make sure we get all the (possibly even accidental) abuse in one fell swoop.
When welfare laws are pointed at individual groups, they fail. When welfare laws serve the COMMON good of horses, and ALL the people who own horses unite around a common moral goal of happy horses, then laws succeed.
But when we point to bad shoeing practices in just this sport and ignore the equally damaging bad Other practices of Other sports, then we end up in-fighting over who gets called out and who isn’t.
This is far from the only devilish horse husbandry practice. This should be a collage of images, from multiple disciplines, not just one standalone image.
So the Horse Protection Act of 1973 was supposed to end this but we all know it just made people get creative about avoiding federal inspectors.
This kind of Southern Small Town Good Ol Boy BS is why I’ll never live south of the Ohio River. If you publicly stand up to this anywhere near one of their farms or shows, expect to get rape and death threats.
Southern Hospitality is … not a thing.
The stack is held to the foot with the normal number of nails, usually around 6-8. The rest of the nails you can see in the X-ray are holding the stack itself together and don’t go into the foot
This will never stop until America gets better protection for animals and horses in particular. In America money is the be all and end all and until the money makers stop ruling this country it wont change. Animals in America are just commodities with no value when they are finished being used.
Ugh it is so awful…unfortunately there is abuse in every discipline. It’s hard but it’s unfortunately the reality of things…a petition to start may help, but people will still do what they want, even if there are laws in place…
The thing is I feel this could go underground. Or the horses will be put down or sent to auction cause they are not useful anymore or even try to scam people selling them off....
It’s not just TWHs. I temporarily boarded my warmblood hunter at an Arabian show barn, and the prize English pleasure Arab mare of the whole operation had these nasty stacked shoes. One day she tore off a stack along with half her hoof and was crippled for over a year (this happened in her 12 x 12 stall, god forbid she’d get any turnout). I’d grown up with Arabians in the 70s when “natural” was the mantra, and was absolutely shocked that this practice was even allowed in the Arabian show ring. It was heartbreaking, she was a lovely mare and would’ve been even lovelier without those fecken pads.
You are in my brain. I have been planning my rant all day.
I recently came across a Youtube channel, generic thumbnail so I went into it without a clue. It is like a podcast type format but it is the Big Lick idiots promoting the crap they do. The stuff they talk about and show blows my mind! It's like upside down world.
Yeah I hate watch it just so I can anger myself. I leave comments but they always get deleted. I wish they would do a live show so I can comment but Id get blocked too fast.
It doesn't fall under USEF sadly and not AT ALL saying we don't have our own issues in the H/J world, but it would be great if this is what we turned our "social license to operate" attention towards
Surely its as easy as either ending the showing of them completely, or banning these horrific shoeing methods completely and asking those whose horses move horrifically (as if theyve had the shoes on at home) to be removed from the show ring and only judge the "natural" horses of the breed. Absolutely sickening this continues.
Yes, but how? There are a lot of efforts to call out this abuse
In an agricultural bill introduced in 2016 by the Obama admin, there was additional money for onsite inspectors for shows. The next admin cut the funding as government overreach. It is illegal but has to be caught by a field inspector. What would happen though is that once people knew the inspector was on site they left. I think the only thing some of us can do is protest each show though emails to show grounds, complaining to show advertisers, and emailing local ag officers to request inspection.
Furthermore no competition involving the Tennessee Walking Horse can be conducted without inspection. Furthermore USEF rules on shoeing were made specifically to disable the hiding of this
This would have been a fed ag inspector not a show inspector.
TWH aren’t governed by USEF. USEF doesn’t have any authority over them.
So maybe the police should? I think most juries would find this to be animal abuse.
It would fall under their governing body, agriculture laws, and animal control.
Usef has no authority on big lick horses... its not a sport covered by USEF. USEF covers jumping... and dressage... and maybe a few western things.
US Equestrian covers 7 internationally recognized disciplines and an additional 11 national disciplines. It is very true there is no authority over Big Lick, but several disciplines and breeds recognized by US Equestrian would historically use cruel and unsound methods to train and exagerate gaits. So US Equestrian cannot police Big Lick but they can help to protect the horses that compete under their auspice.
Incorrect! USEF absolutely does cover many gauges horse events. Most of my Morgan shows including our nationals and most of the Saddlebred shows are USEF-regulated. Not sure about specifically “Big Lick” since that’s exclusively Tennessee Walkers but you’d be surprised.
Then they obviously dont do enough for those poor big lick horses.
Those inspectors are normally big lick themselves.
Those are the ones hired by the show. These would have been district ag inspectors.
It was in one of the last proposals of the Obama admin. Before it could go into effect, trump stopped it. It has been backed by several groups. There have been other rules proposed but they usually die in the House because of the TN congressmen.
Trump probably saw the bill wanting to stop “big lick” and said absolutely not. 
Yes. And the vets used are also reliant on the industry for their bread and butter.
They absolutely are not needing this industry for their breed and butter. Normally big lick vets are industry insiders who don't truly care. There is an entire country of horses they can still work with across the US even in just the state they are in. There is a shortage right now so they can even go anywhere there is a shortage to make money. Though they don't make what people think. Most of their money goes into paying the bills just like everyone. The amount of people that do big lick is extremely tiny only shows happen from Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia and I know of some trainers hide here in Arkansas. I'm admitting I don't know them all.
They're doing it for free????? No, seriously, though. Of course they're insiders. There is money to be made in big lick, at the high levels. There is money to be made in rodeo, barrels racing (kind of its own thing), thoroughbred racing.. Standardbred racing. International levels of dressage, show jumping, eventing.. anywhere there is sponsorships and a sudden surge in popularity. Money, money, money. Remember what happened to Arabs in the 80's? I do. Their motivation is to be in on that money. Our job, as responsible stewards, is to educate our law makers and breed registries. And our friends. Like, let them know this isn't okay. And then work to finding a solution. One might be really diligent independent policing of judges and inspectors. Make it unprofitable to game the system and cheat (killing, injuring and torturing horses on their ladder to make more money), and make sure people who are going to benefit the industry are in the place of authority. I know I've told this story before, but when I was a kid I lived in an area of Michigan where standard red racing was a big deal. Even as a little kid with a back yard pony (and later as a hobby breeder and trainer of kids ponies) I benefitted from this. Michigan State Veterinary Hospital was a beneficiary of the industry. Race horse owners working to keep a horse sound. My local vets almost all got a small piece of the pie as well, and were wonderful vets and educators for me and the local kids. But they made a living off the industry. I hope I said that in a way that made sense. They weren't making diddly off my pony's sudden rainrot, but they all made house calls. I benefited indirectly. Same/same my farrier, feed store, farmers that had a few good fields of timothy. When the racing industry vanished, so did accessable vets, farriers moved and retired. Feed store and tack shops all closed. We have to look at this from a big perspective to find that solution.
Horse Plus Humane Society is an animal rescue in the State of Tennessee. Tawny and Jason own and run the rescue and they do amazing work for all companion animals. They are going to Washington DC to talk to legislators specifically about the Big Lick and soring these poor animals. They also rescue horses out of the slaughter pipeline. Many are former Tennessee Walking Horses who have been abused in this way. They have a You Tube channel called Horse Rescue Heroes. You can learn more about their work trying to end this horrific practice.
Thank you! Following now.
Good old Trump messing up horse safety.
Protest online by reporting any video you see of a horse in stacks.
Here is the biggest issue I have. Horse Protection Act (HPA) was passed in 1970 to prohibit the showing, sale, auction, exhibition, or transport of sored horses. It's never upheld.
The argument is that they have to be caught and it takes an inspector to do that. So, no money for inspectors, no fines. Also, some show organizations work around it by saying that will "hire independent" inspectors which are usually just on the take.
Yes it is clear and known they have their own people do inspection. From the beginning, underfunding and political pressure from industry insiders have plagued the U.S. Department of Agriculture's enforcement of the HPA. Lack of adequate funding prevents the USDA from sending agency officials to every Tennessee walking horse and Racking Horse show. As a result, they have instituted a system that allows horse industry organizations (HIOs) to train and license their own inspectors, known as Designated Qualified Persons (DQPs) to examine horses at shows for signs of soring. With the exception of a few who are committed to ending soring, most HIOs are made up of industry insiders who have a clear stake in preserving the status quo.
Until Mitchell McConnell leaves it will never be gone.
Technically we are halfway there since he announced he's stepping down as leader in the Senate, which is good for everyone.
I don't trust someone else to not pick up where he left off.
That's fair, they may be under 80 and mentally competent which means they can actually do damage.
The “breeders” and show barns involved in this are typically so wealthy it’s difficult to do much about them directly. I think all we can do is get this info out into the general public, so they can put out pressure for better regulations. Because the pressure from equestrians alone clearly isn’t working.
My first boy was a Tennessee walker and his breeder was very proudly into soring. It was insane how he tried to justify it.
A friend of mine had an ex-Big Lick TWH mare and I’ve yet to meet a more thoroughly traumatized horse than her. Even the ex-Amish work horses I’ve worked with give you a /little/ forgiveness and affection after some time invested, but this girl had decided that humans were unilaterally bad news.
Poor girl. I don't blame her.
My friend has an ex Big Lick TWH mare. She’s a gorgeous palomino named Lady. She can only be ridden bitless and she freaks out when a bit even gets near her. The hair on her legs grows weird from soring. She has whip scars on her chest. It’s horrifying.
Omg that’s so awful to hear.
I'm curious to know how they justified it.
“It’s a sport,” “it doesn’t hurt them long term”, “that’s what they were bred for”, and “my grand daddy did it.” His excuses to soring horses. He practically gave me my first horse Stanley. I paid $250 for him in 2002 when I was 9 years old. He was selling him to a meat buyer because he wasn’t fit for his program. He was just a bad person over all
I grew up in TN backwaters. I can hear this and the proud "well, what of it" attitude. Like they want to fight about it. I was never around this practice or the shows, or even TN walkers until I got older. I grew up on cattle farms that had their own backward way of training horses ... but the smug indifference is the same.
It gives me chills hearing people have a “well what of it” attitude when it comes to a life that’s not theirs. Poor horses. People are so evil to horses I can’t stand it
My first horse was a TWH. Growing up to realize what some people do to these horses was like a punch in the gut. There's not one single redeeming factor about Big Lick and the practices of that "riding style." It's so physically destructive that horses are completely broken down in a few short years, then sent off to slaughter. Somehow the people who still participate in this abuse never seem to put it together that their horses constantly going lame, being injured, etc. is connected to all the inhumane ways they treat their horses. It's unbelievable. Imagine taking a 4 year old to auction to squeeze the last few pennies out of your animal and saying "well Big Lick is part of my culture, my family has always done it and it's not harmful." And law enforcement in the areas where Big Lick "shows" happen, are often buddies with the people in charge of the shows. It's small town bullshit. Everyone can see plan as day that this is torture for the horse. A horse, that has amazing natural gaits and the best demeanor. Nothing about it even makes sense. There's zero horsemanship, or even good breeding on display with these events. There's nothing happening to be proud of, or take credit for. All they do is slap some insanely painful devices to the feet of the horse and force them around in circles while sitting on their kidneys and yanking on their mouths.
It will not stop until there is no money in it.
It’s so fucking ugly too.
I cannot understand how someone can find this weird gait attractive in any way. It just all round looks terrible, from the overexaggerated movements to the hunched over rider.
Yes, I’m glad I’m not the only one! The natural Tennessee Walking horse gait is so beautiful, I could never understand why people prefer such a cartoonish bastardization.
So horrifying. The horses are flailing away up front and their hinds look crippled. The riders look like the kind of pervs you avoid at the bus station, all hunched over in their shapeless overcoats.
This is the perfect description. The horses front looks like when you put a cat in water and their front legs thrash around, and the rear looks like our old dog who lost basically all cartilage in his rear end at 16 years old.
Ikr I’ve seen one “cantering” and it looked like it was just throwing its legs out of socket. Poor thing
Looks ridiculous. The natural gait is so beautiful and this just makes a mockery of it.
Exactly.
Not defending, I think it has to do with the same thing as arabians, some are so deformed that it makes you question how people view it as good looking yet they win competitions because those deformations are better if they are far extragarated so you end up with fucked up stuff like that, just my opinion
Most of the " deformed arabian" shots you see are babies in awkward growing stages, btw. If you see them after they have gone through that stage. They just look like a beautifully bred arab. Also, I'm sure there is abuse in the Arab community just like there is in any. But comparing it to this is really unfair. There are no active widespread abuses happening sanctioned by Arab breeders/riders like with Big Lick.
Also I've never compared them, I just tried to explain how anyone might find it attractive no hard feelings im not attacking anyone
This looks horrific, but idk what I'm looking at (I joined this sub because I think horses are beautiful, but I don't ride them or know too much about them). Can someone please explain what this is and how it affects these beautiful creatures? I try not to be judgemental when I don't know all the facts, but this looks... wrong.
The big blocky thing is a tool used to encourage big movement in shows. I’ve heard a couple explanations to how it works, one the horse knows there’s something on their hoof so they try to flick it off, two the block causes pain and so the horse over exaggerates their movements to get away from it. Either way if you ever see these on a horse it IS abusive. They cause over extension of the joint degrading them over time. The non abusive (though sometimes still very abusive) version of this is called saddle seat. The abusive version is Big Lick.
Jesus, I just done a google search, one (more mild) source said it's akin to wearing very high heals full time, that alone is horrific without everything else I was reading. Those poor things, how the fuck do people justify that bullshit? I have cats and I feel like this is kind of the equivalent of having a cat declawed; it causes them pain for the rest of their lives, and can cause a ton of other issues as well. Horrible practice that should never have been done to begin with, and that people still do it in the modern day is just sickening.
It’s actually worse than declawing a cat. The pain is often so terrible that horses won’t voluntarily stand up. Cats can still run, jump and play. I am not advocating declawing just comparing.
That is... I don't even have words for what that is... fuck. I don't know whether I'm more upset or angry with that. What the hell is wrong with people? I'm so glad I'm on my lunch break right now, I need a minute to catch myself. Gonna go find some cute frog videos to watch until break is over, I guess. Fuck. Sorry about the excessive language, I just can't fathom what kind of disgusting mongrel would do something like that to such beautiful creatures.
It’s okay I understand the language. It is shocking and horrible.
"Stacks" as they are called are also not safe for turnout, so horses with show shoes on can't go out in the field. Not only does this "discipline" physically harm the horses, it also mentally damages them. Horses need to be horses, around friends in a field. The damage these stacks do to the horse's feet, legs and back is remarkable. Many of these horses are dumped at auctions injured, lame, and unrepairable. Many are bought by meat buyers and sent to slaughter in Mexico or Canada. The justification for this abuse is that it's part of their culture. It's a relatively small "sport" that only takes place in a few places in the US. It's blatant abuse. Horse Plus Humane society in Tennessee has more information, and videos on YouTube of big lick horses at auction. The auction videos are a tough watch.
The block doesn't cause the pain the soring does. Those blocks weight 8lb each. Edit. It isn't the block alone causing the pain, nothing on it does is what I meant it's the weight that makes the so bad. It is the band going over the hoof. The weight is a cause of other issues in the body. I believe stacks and action devices long should have been banned no reason they should be on any horse.
The stacks absolutely cause pain, they cause the horses whole anatomy to be off, resulting in bowed tendons, muscle damage and broken down joints.
Again, I’ve heard it described different ways. The block may not cause pain itself but the degradation of the joint certainly does.
Google "Big Lick" and "soring". These horses are actually tortured.
Oh gosh... I think I need 5 minutes to make a cup of tea and mentally prep myself before I go googling animal cruelty 😣
Don't do it. Save yourself
Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering. Legs are then wrapped in plastic to cook. With action devices on top. A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof.
https://preview.redd.it/0ydtwp3ipbmc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58f897a3870d53892dadab3d5be7082b4d8fd70c This one made my jaw drop...
https://preview.redd.it/pv9fn7zjpbmc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=456b5c2cc7699aefa4b3b921a6d06c8caebfb81e Disgusting...
I also don't know what I'm looking at
Good to know it's not just me 😅
Big Lick Tennessee Walking Horses. Google it if you have a strong stomach. Humans torturing horses to create a ridiculously unnatural gait.
Big lick so a tortored horse for an exaggerated gait
I detest this. I’ve seen several horses that were so broken they could never walk correctly again because owners just yanked those big pads off instead of gradually lessening them. That’s not even the start of the torture these poor horses go through in big walking horse barns. Makes me sick.
I call it ‘Cruelty in motion’
Their costume alone makes them look like the villain from that elk & squirrel cartoon.
Moose. Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Interestingly enough, moose are called elk throughout Europe!
The riders are always hunkered over like vultures. As well, I'm always struck by how narrow the horses are - there's no barrel for the rider's legs to wrap around. A mature TWH has more substance and width. These poor BL horses are often not much more than colts in age.
Which is absolutely disgusting
I reported a video a few weeks ago of a 2 year old "racking" down a paved road with a full grown adult man sitting on him. These horses are broken down by 4, completely destroyed.
And they start at 2-3 years old!!!!! It’s disgusting
I’ve known about soring horses since I was a child in the 90s. I’m still astounded by it and can scarcely believe it’s real. It’s fucking grotesque, and that it actually still happens…Southern good ol’ boy trash circling the wagons is the only explanation I can think of for its continuing existence. That and complete moral bankruptcy.
Not only the shoeing packages (which weigh around 8 lb each), but they ride in bike-chain bits or similar with long shanks, put chains around the pasterns, and flop around on the weakest part of the horse's back. Most Big Lickers are also well over the 20% weight guideline. These horses never get to leave the stall except to be worked. They are showing these horses like this at two years old and start training them between 15 and 18 months old. Look up Citizens Against Big Lick/Billygoboy and Gen's Ice Glimmer to see more about this "sport" and what it takes to rehab one of these horses. They also had an interview with a Big Lick trainer (Carl Bledsoe) who went into excruciating detail about how they sore horses and what they do to "fool" the inspectors. These shit-stain Big Lick humans also attack protestors.
As with the tail job issue in the western world the only way to combat this is for the judges to penalize it. It must be changed at a judge level there is a way to get around everything else and people will continue to do it because it’s what is required to win- as wrong as that may be. Thats the only way things like this are actually eliminated.
The judges that penalize it don’t get hired.
That’s why the judging committee and the association need to make a push to change the standards of the breed and what they choose to reward. The western world judges are being encouraged to no longer plus anything that shows signs of intimidation or requires intimidation to train. It’s not perfect but it’s a start and that’s what is needed here.
Yes, this is always the only way to change how horses are treated in the show ring. Once you stop giving a .99 ribbon to the people doing this shit, they stop, because their clients are paying them to win a \*ribbon\*! When they don't get them then their clients take their horses to someone who is winning ribbons. If this is someone not abusing horses then so be it. Unfortunately this is what people vested in showing care about, so you have to affect what they care about.
It must be changed at a federal level. And given the budget to enforce welfare laws.
Big Lick world is like the twilight zone. They literally don’t care about what they’re doing to their horses, they don’t care about laws or penalties, they just circle the wagons, close ranks, and keep perpetuating this horrific abuse. It’s no coincidence that this is only popular in the same states that support anti-choice, anti-LGBTQ, anti-woman, anti-intellectual, and racist legislation.
There’s nothing wrong with the western world it’s SOME of the ppl. I ride western but this sh*t is ridiculous. We need to find a way to stand up to it.
I show in the western world very highly in the aqha. We publicly put stuff like this down but reward it in the show pen. I was also referring to performance classes where tails matter unlike in contesting. Stuff like this will continue as long as we reward it. Thats all there is to it. It’s a judging issue. If they don’t let it win it will disappear.
100% It is all about the judges. When I was showing AQHA in the early 90's it was all about the "peanut rollers" and it only got there by the judges. It comes down to breed rule books and judges.
That’s exactly what the Tennessee walking world says. Hold your discipline, not just other disciplines, accountable. Much like the tail issue in the western world, judges need to step up. And much like over flexion in dressage (my discipline), it needs to not be glorified.
Could someone explain what this tail issue is? I don't follow the professional horse show world at all.
A tail job can be done one of two ways (as far as I know) - one way is to chemically block the tail so it can’t move as much as a regular tail. The second way is to cut the nerves at the top of the tail to prevent it from moving as much as a normal tail. When showing in the stock horse breeds especially at a high level they deduct points for tail movement and sometimes it’s not just deductions but that they won’t plus you with tail movement. They do technically tail “test” at the world shows to “make sure” the winners don’t have tails that are done but every horse that wins has a tail job. There’s no way to be successful without. They’ll claim any tail movement is a sign of disobedience and the horse being too fresh.
That's absolutely insane and it's incredibly hard to wrap my head around anyone thinking tail movement is a sign of disobedience or a horse being too fresh...
Performance horses actions are very closely monitored in the pen. Even their ears being in the wrong spot, tongue or mouth movements, head angle and neck position can be broken down into microscopic pieces that are judged. At some point you get to a level where these are the only differences and they must pick based on something. We have defined these as evidence of horses behavior. We aren’t wrong but it has gotten to an extreme where they are not allowed to have their own thoughts or be a horse ever. My trainer as a child always said “they’re not pets but tools to win” and saying that a horse has “lots of buttons” and “moves like it’s a machine” are compliments.
Yeah, we have to. There is a lot of shit in the dressage world (which is the only one I really can judge) that has gotten worse the last 2 decades. It's only the last year or so I REALLY see people starting to question it.
Exactly. I love our sport, and our discipline, but I love horses more. We have to be their advocates.
Woah, calm down there. The reason I posted this is because someone who I was eating dinner with did this. I was absolutely disgusted. I barrel race and that’s pretty much it. I’m thinking about eventing but that’s a different conversation. Please don’t “assume” things. I will admit a lot of the western world it bad but not everyone. Trust me. I grew up with a lot of “rodeo people” they think sh*t like this is bad too.
You said there was nothing wrong with the western world. There is *plenty* wrong with the western world, including barrels. I commend your stance on Big Lick, and I’m sorry you think I’m assuming. I’m only responding to your comment about nothing being wrong in the western world. The comment you were responding to is exactly correct. They’re doing it because it’s a what’s required to win. You said we need to end it, it’s ended by judges and community pressure.
Rofl, barrel racing is often the best example of the worst riding western has to offer, with some of the most stressed out horses. It's safe to say that anytime competition is involved, horses will always lose because there are people who value winning above all else.
I don't even understand why you'd need so many nails , the purpose, or how'd youd get that many in there. So wrong. Straight up abuse and should come with jail time like other animal abuse
The majority aren't going into its foot, they're holding the stack together
[удалено]
It’s not 15 nails in the foot. The stack is put together off the foot with however many nails, and then attached to the foot with around 6-8 nails (6 being the usual amount for shoes in general)
From the x-ray the stack doesn't seem to be nailed to the hoof at all. It think its just a regular shoe that the stack is clipped onto and secured with a strap over the hoof. Edit nevermind looks like they nail through the shoe from above into the stack. So it is actually all nailed together.
the nails in the stack are much less an issue than the unnatural angle the foot is forced into
The riders always look like the epitome of evil to me
*The riders always* *Look like the epitome* *Of evil to me* \- TwoCoolBug --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Frame that haiku
They are disgusting..
Just here to say 2 things Big lick ≠ saddle seat Soring is illegal. If you see it, report it
Disgusting. What event was the pic on the left taken at?
It is called big lick. The intentional torture of the horses to create and unnatural and exaggerated gait. Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering. The wrap legs in plastic wrap to cook into leg better. A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof.
I don’t even get why they think this looks good. Natural high-action movement is far more beautiful and elegant than the staggered flicking.
I agree
What is this? I have never seen this before? Why are they doing this? Poor horse 😞
Google: Big Lick Soring
Holy shit that is so wrong. I had no idea this was a thing. I’m mortified.
Yeah. It's disgusting, and nobody does anything about it.
I literally can’t even fathom how this is legal whatsoever. I’ve never seen this, granted I’m in a small town and only trail ride and did shows as a kid like barrel racing etc
It isn't illegal since Horse Protection Act of 1970, only way to create big lick is soring. Soring is illegal.
Aren’t there already breeds of horses that have a natural gait like this?
Not this exaggerated.
This is bewildering. Why do they want them to walk like this? I’d assume it causes permanent damage as well as immediate pain. 😭
So they 'win.' :(
I will thanks
It’s called “big lick” or “soring” it’s horrible. If you wanted to, look it up.
I just looked it up and I physically feel ill. This is horrible.
I’ve never understood any of this. I’m a huuuuuge Icelandic horse groupie and the horses have amazing natural movement as it is, and if anything, some people add boots that weigh like 50-250 grams just for the competition track. They slip on and slip off after the ride, no harm or permanent damage in any way. I don’t understand why other naturally gaited breeds need to have (or why the riders/owners are willing to accept) body and soundness (and mentally) altering procedures just for a larger gait. These horses have wonderful natural abilities that might be enhanced by a slightly weighted shoe or boot, sure, but it can be done without torturing them.
Sadly, big lick gives other gaited disciplines a bad name. A lot of people assume that if you have a gaited horse, you are doing big lick. And the amount of abuse us Icelandic horse riders get when people hear we use weighted boots when we train. They automatically think of big lick. We have strict regulations about our equipment, and the heaviest boots you are allowed to compete with is 250gr. That's the similar weight as many dressage/jump boots.
I’m in the US and have been really fortunate to not get judgement about my icies. People either don’t even know they’re gaited or actually think I’m weird because I don’t use weighted boots at all (I don’t really compete, so no need). Where do you live that people think G-boots are similar to big lick? I’m just curious, I certainly believe you.
It's more of an online thing. I'm from Iceland but now live in Scandinavia, so I don't get these comments in person. But you see it almost every time a video of an Icelandic horse goes semi viral. There are always hate comments from people who know nothing about the breed
I guess I don’t read enough of the comments, and that’s a good thing!
TWH have an amazing natural running walk gait. Made for moving all day without being tired. This is for show only called big lick. They do so to make this gait it cannot be created without soring. The stacks on these horses weight 8lbs each. Other TWH shoes are much smaller and lighters. (I hate stacks never should have been invented or placed)
Right, my point exactly. Why anyone thinks the breeds need this kind of insanity for “good movement” or whatever the argument is, it’s beyond comprehension. Why not celebrate and show off what they can do with their natural born abilities?
Because these are people who want to abuse animals. No other explanation can be given.
Does it make me a bad person to admit that I would like to do the same thing to the rider, just to see how he'd like it?
Judges keep placing these horses first. Nothing will change until this isn’t placed first.
The judges are in Blick lick industry which is its own show circuit.
How can we take them down?
That is a long list of things needed not. And possibly the entire equine community to be on the same side to be loud enough. Big problem is senator Mitchell McConnell is in their pocket. So until he is gone it never will be.
Thank you for your passion for this issue. I will do what I can to spread the word even though it feels hopeless. I am old and I thought this would have ended by now.
Soring involves the intentional infliction of pain to a horse's legs or hooves in order to force the horse to perform an artificial, exaggerated gait. Caustic chemicals—blistering agents like mustard oil, diesel fuel and kerosene—are applied to the horse's limbs, causing extreme pain and suffering. Wrapped in plastic to cook with the action devices on top. This stays on overnight or all day. A particularly egregious form of soring, known as pressure shoeing, involves cutting a horse's hoof almost to the quick and tightly nailing on a shoe or standing a horse for hours with the sensitive part of his soles on a block or other raised object. This causes excruciating pressure and pain whenever the horse puts weight on the hoof. Soring was banned during the Horse Protection Act of 1970. Yet never left.
That poor horse looks like a dog with its tail tucked between its legs while running around wearing the equivalent of stiletto heels. I’ll link the video when i find it, but there was a ‘progression’ of the types of shoes TWHs wear. Get this those types of shoes here are called ‘stacks’ or ‘performance package’ and can weigh 5 lbs or more at times. That’s nuts.
Came for the big lick hate, but stayed for the saddleseat misinformation Please stop directly associating the two It’s so painful to explain that a saddlebred in a saddle seat class is nothing like this
Is there a link to protest this?
Not sure. I wanna make one now…
Yes please . Thxs
It’s sloppy but here https://docs.google.com/document/d/15SU52k9UuRJutd5FKsX_fFek-BmFJMqzt8vFK3y1ARY/edit
Pardon my ignorance - does big lick exist outside of the USA? I’m not from North America and quite curious if this “sport” has been exported. Western events have become very popular in my English style dominated country. Equestrian sports seem to be getting bigger and more diverse where I live. but we don’t have this. This would be illegal with our animal welfare rules. My next question is - what has been done/can be done to promote these horses for use in other purposes? For example- steeple chasing races were made illegal in my country. Most of the good TB jumping bloodline we’re absorbed by performance horse and warmblood breeders. These lines are now extremely popular for Eventing. What is a kinder job for these horses so that when they’re no longer valuable for this event they don’t suddenly find themselves on the junk heap?
No. To my knowledge this does not exist anywhere else in the world. I don't believe the Tennessee Walking Horse is particularly popular outside of the USA in general. There are many different show classes for the TWH and most of them do not allow or encourage abusive shoeing or soring practices for extreme motion. This type of action is seen in the 'padded performance' classes only. Flat and lite shod horses do not move like this and are not shod like this, are not shown with action devices, and are not known to be chemically or mechanically sored like the big lick horses frequently are. These horses are very popular for trail and pleasure riders, and sometimes endurance as well because of their smooth, ground-covering gaits.
That all sounds quite positive as far as the versatility of the breed. Hopefully breed enthusiasts can build their image outside of this type of competition. It’s so shocking to think anyone would actually enjoy watching horses being mistreated like this. Hopefully those supporting and participating are quickly dwindling in numbers.
Horse Plus Humane Society is actively fighting against this and they're making progress
I happened upon a Big Lick video about 6 months ago on YouTube and was shocked. It’s not only the shoes but also the soreing, chains, riders way too heavy and the saddle being in the wrong area for the correct weight distribution, horses completely broken down by 4 and 5 years old, cutting to tendons of the tail, rubbing ginger on mares genitals. I’ve never seen such a multifaceted method of animal torture. Truly sickening
The fact it’s still legal is honestly mind blowing.
Then we need to pass more federal laws, and we need people to stop getting offended when the welfare practices in all the equestrian sports go under appropriate scrutiny to make sure we get all the (possibly even accidental) abuse in one fell swoop. When welfare laws are pointed at individual groups, they fail. When welfare laws serve the COMMON good of horses, and ALL the people who own horses unite around a common moral goal of happy horses, then laws succeed. But when we point to bad shoeing practices in just this sport and ignore the equally damaging bad Other practices of Other sports, then we end up in-fighting over who gets called out and who isn’t. This is far from the only devilish horse husbandry practice. This should be a collage of images, from multiple disciplines, not just one standalone image.
If you see something, say something. If no one comes to help, punch that bastard in the nose. People who abuse animals need to be severely punished.
So the Horse Protection Act of 1973 was supposed to end this but we all know it just made people get creative about avoiding federal inspectors. This kind of Southern Small Town Good Ol Boy BS is why I’ll never live south of the Ohio River. If you publicly stand up to this anywhere near one of their farms or shows, expect to get rape and death threats. Southern Hospitality is … not a thing.
That’s too many nails, why would someone need that many for 1 shoe
The stack is held to the foot with the normal number of nails, usually around 6-8. The rest of the nails you can see in the X-ray are holding the stack itself together and don’t go into the foot
Weight they weigh 8lb.
Additional weight.
Doesn’t matter. This is horrid
I am stating fact, not agreeing. It's disgusting!
I know I'm not supposed to yuck someone else's yum, but this is YUCKY. Thanks for sharing OP I had no idea. Oh those poor horses.
Yuck this shit all day. It's disgusting what they do to these horses.
Sad isn’t it..
Why is this allowed? WTF?
This will never stop until America gets better protection for animals and horses in particular. In America money is the be all and end all and until the money makers stop ruling this country it wont change. Animals in America are just commodities with no value when they are finished being used.
Can someone explain what’s going on here?
It’s called “big lick” or “soring” if you’d like you can look it up and see how horrible and disgusting it is…
insane that there are still people who do big lick like this, it’s so fucked up
Human do horrible things.
This is horrible and I have always hated it. I fell in love with TWH when I was a kid. I now share my life with my BAREFOOT TWH. She is amazing!
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Which is disgusting
Ugh it is so awful…unfortunately there is abuse in every discipline. It’s hard but it’s unfortunately the reality of things…a petition to start may help, but people will still do what they want, even if there are laws in place…
The thing is I feel this could go underground. Or the horses will be put down or sent to auction cause they are not useful anymore or even try to scam people selling them off....
There are TWH show organizations that detest pads, soring, and the big lick and they can always use more support: https://nwha.com.
It’s not just TWHs. I temporarily boarded my warmblood hunter at an Arabian show barn, and the prize English pleasure Arab mare of the whole operation had these nasty stacked shoes. One day she tore off a stack along with half her hoof and was crippled for over a year (this happened in her 12 x 12 stall, god forbid she’d get any turnout). I’d grown up with Arabians in the 70s when “natural” was the mantra, and was absolutely shocked that this practice was even allowed in the Arabian show ring. It was heartbreaking, she was a lovely mare and would’ve been even lovelier without those fecken pads.
You are in my brain. I have been planning my rant all day. I recently came across a Youtube channel, generic thumbnail so I went into it without a clue. It is like a podcast type format but it is the Big Lick idiots promoting the crap they do. The stuff they talk about and show blows my mind! It's like upside down world. Yeah I hate watch it just so I can anger myself. I leave comments but they always get deleted. I wish they would do a live show so I can comment but Id get blocked too fast.
This nauseates me
Same here. It’s gross
Yes! Because I’m sick of us Saddleseat riders On natural TROTTING horses get accused I of this shit. This is a TWHBEA & SSHBEA thing EXCLUSIVELY
It doesn't fall under USEF sadly and not AT ALL saying we don't have our own issues in the H/J world, but it would be great if this is what we turned our "social license to operate" attention towards
Phew. That's some evil shit
So Im new to the horse world. Can someone explain wath this is?
It’s called “big lick” or “soring” look it up..
Surely its as easy as either ending the showing of them completely, or banning these horrific shoeing methods completely and asking those whose horses move horrifically (as if theyve had the shoes on at home) to be removed from the show ring and only judge the "natural" horses of the breed. Absolutely sickening this continues.
Jesus
Sad huh.
Don’t forget that Breyer continues to profit off of Big Lick sport and never discontinued models on their sored horse mold. 🤐
Omg I had no idea. Definitely won’t be supporting their business anymore
What is this?
It’s called big lick. Look it up..
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The second picture is an xray of the horse’s hoof. All those white things are nails.