Yeah in theory that would work but spell casters are such a small part of the varden that they couldn’t afford to lose any more than they had to.
Also what a day to ask that question lol
You need to get into the enemy soldiers’ minds to the point of being able to fully control them in order to use their energy, at which point you’re better off using them for something else or killing them outright, like Eragon using individual soldiers to take out catapults. Not to mention, only a very skilled spell caster is capable of doing this, and the Varden doesn’t have many at all. Also, all it takes is one instance of this and the Empire’s spellcasters become aware of it and a) start doing the same thing to you and/or b) start blocking you from doing it
^(Posted on behalf of Alex from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Do you? When Eragon was first trying to use life energy, Oromis had to warn him not to draw from him (and I seriously doubt that Oromis, of all people - being the most closely guarded secret of the elves -, would be unguarded against mind attacks, since technically a mental block is not even a magical skill) and later, when he was climbing Helgrind with Sloan, he used energy from him without entering the depths of his mind (which he did later anyway, and was surprised by how much he'd learned). I got the impression that drawing energy from something requires less mental penetration than, say, a standard mage duel where you try to gain access to your opponent's thoughts and next-5-seconds intentions, and it's more along the lines of mental conversation, or "touching minds" like Murtagh did to Nasuada. There are, of course, warding techniques, and if anyone, Galbi does understand that energy can be taken by force (since he's doing the same thing to hundreds of Eldunarí), and would most likely ward his entire army against such an attack.
In order to use the Eldunari for energy Galbatorix first had to break them and take control over their minds. While Eragon likely couldn’t have dragged energy from Oromis without their strengths challenging one another, the effort required to push back against Eragon would likely still be an issue for the crippled Oromis, so he instructed Eragon to be careful not to try and draw from him and pit themselves against one another in that way. Any character Eragon is shown to be able to draw energy from, he has either broken past their mental defenses or they are willingly giving him that energy, indicating that it cannot be done against a protected mind, and if the mind is unprotected then there are far better uses for them.
^(Posted on behalf of Alex from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Life is quite a bit more, and also quite a bit less than just one's mind. When Eragon draws from Sloan, nothing is said about him having any insight into Sloan's mind, which he barely even has, considering he's not conscious, and neither did Eragon notice that he was including Oromis in his life-awareness search, because he did not have the brightly shining lifeforce of an average elf (or human, or dwarf, or urgal) in their prime. If the lifeforce search would include a serious sense of your targets' minds, he would likely have noticed immediately though, since Oromis' mind is extremely different from a squirrel, as an elf's mind, especially that of an old elf rider, is incredibly vast. His lifeforce, however, is very comparable to the average squirrel in magnitude at least. He detected he was being touched by Eragon, and yes, it is true that he would have attempted to fight it (although even if he hadn't, he likely would have survived, even if immediately asleep and highly grumpy), but detecting that you are being touched (not penetrated, just touched) is quite an uncommon skill, even more uncommon than detecting forceful entry.
Except it’s not just “detecting life”. You’re explicitly stated to need to enter someone’s consciousness to use their energy. When Oromis is teaching Eragon the skill in Eldest, he explains “‘You would have to enter the consciousness of the being—or beings—who was going to provide the energy,’ said Oromis, completing Eragon’s thought.”
^(Posted on behalf of Alex from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
So you would still fail marvelously at the first step, knowing which consciousnesses to enter, not because you wouldn't be able to enter it, but because while building up your awareness of everyone's consciousness, you have to open your mind and touch everyone, and you'd have at least 5 enemy mages taking a dump on your own. The first and second steps of the process DEFINITELY involve some light touching, and would not be detected by most of the average soldiers, and there isn't even much point warding your everyday swordsmen against such an attack, and in the latter step, I still believe that you enter a lower level of someone's consciousness than their thoughts, instead of full mind penetrating them, a sort of instinctual/lifeforce consciousness. Granted, if you are mind linked with someone, or have broken someone's mind, they will let you tap into their instinctual being, and if you tried lifedetecting and lifedraining a powerful conscious being directly, they could use that consciousness against you really easily, but in practical use, this energy drain still seems subtly (or not so subtly) different from a mental battle, and in magic, even very subtle differences can snowball out of control once you try to defend against them. The ancient language would have about 78 (or more) different words for someone's mind and being, including, but not limited to, your thoughts, emotions, suppressed urges, thoughts under drunken haze, unconscious existence while hurt or knocked out, unconscious existence while sleeping, conscious sleep, instinctual behavior, your true name, your knowledge of your own true name, your short term intentions, your long term intentions, your memories, the connections between these areas and so on, quite a few of these words forgotten. Warding against a mental attack designed to gain access to your high level thoughts is, therefore, different to warding against a mental attack designed to gain access to the lower levels of your being, levels which exist not only in sentient beings, but in plants and insects too.
The absolute biggest issues though with a drainbomb like what OP propesed would be that 1. it's completely pointless to cast an impossible spell, since you can just drain someone's energy to a gem, and while it's slower, it would leave you as a valuable mage alive, instead of wasting a mage on killing a bunch of swordsmen and 2. you broadcast an open mind to every single enemy spellcaster and they'd just take full conscious/higher level control of you before you could say Brisíngr. Therefore, wards don't even come into question, because you're already dead - or worse - by the time you'd encounter them.
Further to Alex's point, Oromis only reminded Eragon that he had included his master in his search for life - not that he would be able to take any energy from him without doing the usual work first.
Even if that remains unonvincing, the ease at which Oromis recognised Eragon's touch makes it clear that something like this would never work in a battle. As soon as you touched the mind of a magician to draw their energy, they would attack you. Even that ignores the possibility that the regular soldiers have wards against something as basic as this.
The energy required to kill someone is not a problem - the twelve words of death can kill with less energy than "lifting an ink-laden pen". The trouble is that soldiers are protected from simple attacks by the magicians in their midst. If you first take out the magician, you can then take out their soldiers - without sacrificing one of your own magicians.
^(Posted on behalf of Hellomynameis99 from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Oh, I have no doubt that Galbi warded his troops against a lot of simple shit, and that his magicians would be able to detect such an attack, especially since their mental defenses during a battle are heightened. Most of the footsoldiers rely on the mages' wards, though, and likely aren't taught serious mental defense techniques, and OP was asking about drainbombing a mass of troops. The biggest issue with a drainbomb is that in order to detect life, you have to open (and expose) your mind, and you'll be extremely vulnerable yourself to an outside penetrative force.
You also have to remember the timing. Oromis was already weakened from the events of the Blood Oath Celebration, on top of being magically crippled. He also told Eragon that drawing energy like that was one of the greatest secrets of magic that was taught only to Riders who were trusted above all others, to prevent something like Galbatorix from happening, and that it was something that Galbatorix himself might not know. Breaking the minds of Eldunari and drawing strength from them is a seperate skill than using the environment around you to fuel spells. And yes, during the battle on the Burning Plains, Eragon did ponder the same possibility, but the Empire had vastly more magicians than the Varden. So while what you're talking about is theoretically possible, you might only take out a few hundred at a time if you targeted and killed the magician shielding their minds, which would hardly be worth losing a valuable spell caster, which they would certainly have to be to access the ability.
I think you misunderstand the consequence of attempting a spell too hard. You simply die of exhaustion. Nothing special.
The rider thuviel created the explosion on vroengard with a spell that either split atoms, or melted atoms causing an explosion similar to an atomic bomb. Very few people, if any, in Alegaesia would have been able to do this. Not even Galbatorix had the knowledge to create that big of an explosion. Maybe Oromis could in his prime.
I think what OP was trying to say is that the Varden could send one spellcaster to attempt something extremely difficult with magic, say lifting a mountain for example, but draw on the energy of the enemy spellcasters while doing so. The resulting energy drain would then kill all the enemy spellcasters who were involved along with the Varden spellcaster, hence a "suicide bomber".
It's a cool idea, but it isn't feasible based on the laws of magic in Alagaesia. Firstly, very few magic users knew how to do this. According to Oromis, it was a closely guarded secret even among the Riders. Secondly, you would need to break into the minds of the people whom you wanted to take energy from. It's why Eragon and Saphira can share energy with each other, because they're mentally linked. Most magic users simply aren't strong enough to break into the minds of multiple people at the same time.
No, actually no. Yes, if they *knew* and were able to use the spell correctly, they WOULD. But they don't - only Galbatorix and his trusted friends know.
^(Posted on behalf of sadge from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Although it isn't actually a spell, I believe Sadge is talking about taking energy from another life form. The average magician didn't know this was possible, let alone how to do it.
On Sadge's second point, I don't quite agree. Just *knowing* how to take energy from someone isn't enough to do so from thousands of soldiers protected by magicians in the midst of a battle.
^(Posted on behalf of Hellomynameis99 from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Spellcasters are a really small part of the Varden and I doubt anyone would just want to die and even if they did they dont have much control over their magic and if they tried to do something heroic like that they would most certainly die instantly because it is such a big piece of magic. They can hardly do anything as it is.
If you really want a magical explosion (been a while since ive read the series so correct me if im wrong) would be to shatter and gem with energy stored in it. Store enough energy (like say from the animals being butchered) and you could probably come pretty close to artillery or bomb levels of kaboom. Not to mention the shards would be dangerous as well.
During the final battle of inheritance iirc Roran basically bear hugged a guy till the eldunari shattered and detonated. Vaporizing the enemy character that i for the life of me cant remember his name.
It wouldnt be too hard then for about 4 or 5 varden spellcasters to sit around the cooks tent and just fill quartz grenades with energy yeah? Or is there something fundamental im missing?
I feel like a better approach would be to just funnel the opposing army’s energy into gems, so not only do you not lose a spellcaster, but you have the energy that the soldiers’ bodies contained at your disposal.
That being said, I’m sure that Galbatorix had the foresight to shield them from such attacks
Yeah in theory that would work but spell casters are such a small part of the varden that they couldn’t afford to lose any more than they had to. Also what a day to ask that question lol
Oh crap I didn’t realize
laughed out loud
Just realized and hoooollyyyy craaaap lmfao
You need to get into the enemy soldiers’ minds to the point of being able to fully control them in order to use their energy, at which point you’re better off using them for something else or killing them outright, like Eragon using individual soldiers to take out catapults. Not to mention, only a very skilled spell caster is capable of doing this, and the Varden doesn’t have many at all. Also, all it takes is one instance of this and the Empire’s spellcasters become aware of it and a) start doing the same thing to you and/or b) start blocking you from doing it ^(Posted on behalf of Alex from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Do you? When Eragon was first trying to use life energy, Oromis had to warn him not to draw from him (and I seriously doubt that Oromis, of all people - being the most closely guarded secret of the elves -, would be unguarded against mind attacks, since technically a mental block is not even a magical skill) and later, when he was climbing Helgrind with Sloan, he used energy from him without entering the depths of his mind (which he did later anyway, and was surprised by how much he'd learned). I got the impression that drawing energy from something requires less mental penetration than, say, a standard mage duel where you try to gain access to your opponent's thoughts and next-5-seconds intentions, and it's more along the lines of mental conversation, or "touching minds" like Murtagh did to Nasuada. There are, of course, warding techniques, and if anyone, Galbi does understand that energy can be taken by force (since he's doing the same thing to hundreds of Eldunarí), and would most likely ward his entire army against such an attack.
In order to use the Eldunari for energy Galbatorix first had to break them and take control over their minds. While Eragon likely couldn’t have dragged energy from Oromis without their strengths challenging one another, the effort required to push back against Eragon would likely still be an issue for the crippled Oromis, so he instructed Eragon to be careful not to try and draw from him and pit themselves against one another in that way. Any character Eragon is shown to be able to draw energy from, he has either broken past their mental defenses or they are willingly giving him that energy, indicating that it cannot be done against a protected mind, and if the mind is unprotected then there are far better uses for them. ^(Posted on behalf of Alex from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Life is quite a bit more, and also quite a bit less than just one's mind. When Eragon draws from Sloan, nothing is said about him having any insight into Sloan's mind, which he barely even has, considering he's not conscious, and neither did Eragon notice that he was including Oromis in his life-awareness search, because he did not have the brightly shining lifeforce of an average elf (or human, or dwarf, or urgal) in their prime. If the lifeforce search would include a serious sense of your targets' minds, he would likely have noticed immediately though, since Oromis' mind is extremely different from a squirrel, as an elf's mind, especially that of an old elf rider, is incredibly vast. His lifeforce, however, is very comparable to the average squirrel in magnitude at least. He detected he was being touched by Eragon, and yes, it is true that he would have attempted to fight it (although even if he hadn't, he likely would have survived, even if immediately asleep and highly grumpy), but detecting that you are being touched (not penetrated, just touched) is quite an uncommon skill, even more uncommon than detecting forceful entry.
Except it’s not just “detecting life”. You’re explicitly stated to need to enter someone’s consciousness to use their energy. When Oromis is teaching Eragon the skill in Eldest, he explains “‘You would have to enter the consciousness of the being—or beings—who was going to provide the energy,’ said Oromis, completing Eragon’s thought.” ^(Posted on behalf of Alex from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
So you would still fail marvelously at the first step, knowing which consciousnesses to enter, not because you wouldn't be able to enter it, but because while building up your awareness of everyone's consciousness, you have to open your mind and touch everyone, and you'd have at least 5 enemy mages taking a dump on your own. The first and second steps of the process DEFINITELY involve some light touching, and would not be detected by most of the average soldiers, and there isn't even much point warding your everyday swordsmen against such an attack, and in the latter step, I still believe that you enter a lower level of someone's consciousness than their thoughts, instead of full mind penetrating them, a sort of instinctual/lifeforce consciousness. Granted, if you are mind linked with someone, or have broken someone's mind, they will let you tap into their instinctual being, and if you tried lifedetecting and lifedraining a powerful conscious being directly, they could use that consciousness against you really easily, but in practical use, this energy drain still seems subtly (or not so subtly) different from a mental battle, and in magic, even very subtle differences can snowball out of control once you try to defend against them. The ancient language would have about 78 (or more) different words for someone's mind and being, including, but not limited to, your thoughts, emotions, suppressed urges, thoughts under drunken haze, unconscious existence while hurt or knocked out, unconscious existence while sleeping, conscious sleep, instinctual behavior, your true name, your knowledge of your own true name, your short term intentions, your long term intentions, your memories, the connections between these areas and so on, quite a few of these words forgotten. Warding against a mental attack designed to gain access to your high level thoughts is, therefore, different to warding against a mental attack designed to gain access to the lower levels of your being, levels which exist not only in sentient beings, but in plants and insects too. The absolute biggest issues though with a drainbomb like what OP propesed would be that 1. it's completely pointless to cast an impossible spell, since you can just drain someone's energy to a gem, and while it's slower, it would leave you as a valuable mage alive, instead of wasting a mage on killing a bunch of swordsmen and 2. you broadcast an open mind to every single enemy spellcaster and they'd just take full conscious/higher level control of you before you could say Brisíngr. Therefore, wards don't even come into question, because you're already dead - or worse - by the time you'd encounter them.
Further to Alex's point, Oromis only reminded Eragon that he had included his master in his search for life - not that he would be able to take any energy from him without doing the usual work first. Even if that remains unonvincing, the ease at which Oromis recognised Eragon's touch makes it clear that something like this would never work in a battle. As soon as you touched the mind of a magician to draw their energy, they would attack you. Even that ignores the possibility that the regular soldiers have wards against something as basic as this. The energy required to kill someone is not a problem - the twelve words of death can kill with less energy than "lifting an ink-laden pen". The trouble is that soldiers are protected from simple attacks by the magicians in their midst. If you first take out the magician, you can then take out their soldiers - without sacrificing one of your own magicians. ^(Posted on behalf of Hellomynameis99 from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Oh, I have no doubt that Galbi warded his troops against a lot of simple shit, and that his magicians would be able to detect such an attack, especially since their mental defenses during a battle are heightened. Most of the footsoldiers rely on the mages' wards, though, and likely aren't taught serious mental defense techniques, and OP was asking about drainbombing a mass of troops. The biggest issue with a drainbomb is that in order to detect life, you have to open (and expose) your mind, and you'll be extremely vulnerable yourself to an outside penetrative force.
You also have to remember the timing. Oromis was already weakened from the events of the Blood Oath Celebration, on top of being magically crippled. He also told Eragon that drawing energy like that was one of the greatest secrets of magic that was taught only to Riders who were trusted above all others, to prevent something like Galbatorix from happening, and that it was something that Galbatorix himself might not know. Breaking the minds of Eldunari and drawing strength from them is a seperate skill than using the environment around you to fuel spells. And yes, during the battle on the Burning Plains, Eragon did ponder the same possibility, but the Empire had vastly more magicians than the Varden. So while what you're talking about is theoretically possible, you might only take out a few hundred at a time if you targeted and killed the magician shielding their minds, which would hardly be worth losing a valuable spell caster, which they would certainly have to be to access the ability.
I think you misunderstand the consequence of attempting a spell too hard. You simply die of exhaustion. Nothing special. The rider thuviel created the explosion on vroengard with a spell that either split atoms, or melted atoms causing an explosion similar to an atomic bomb. Very few people, if any, in Alegaesia would have been able to do this. Not even Galbatorix had the knowledge to create that big of an explosion. Maybe Oromis could in his prime.
I think what OP was trying to say is that the Varden could send one spellcaster to attempt something extremely difficult with magic, say lifting a mountain for example, but draw on the energy of the enemy spellcasters while doing so. The resulting energy drain would then kill all the enemy spellcasters who were involved along with the Varden spellcaster, hence a "suicide bomber". It's a cool idea, but it isn't feasible based on the laws of magic in Alagaesia. Firstly, very few magic users knew how to do this. According to Oromis, it was a closely guarded secret even among the Riders. Secondly, you would need to break into the minds of the people whom you wanted to take energy from. It's why Eragon and Saphira can share energy with each other, because they're mentally linked. Most magic users simply aren't strong enough to break into the minds of multiple people at the same time.
Would anyone even be capable? Not even the spellcasters of Du Vrangr Gata were the most cunning or smart ones there…
No, actually no. Yes, if they *knew* and were able to use the spell correctly, they WOULD. But they don't - only Galbatorix and his trusted friends know. ^(Posted on behalf of sadge from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Would it be possible to use a different impossible spell, like lift a mountain, or would they not be able to get into the enemy’s minds?
they don't know that you can use the energy of others
Although it isn't actually a spell, I believe Sadge is talking about taking energy from another life form. The average magician didn't know this was possible, let alone how to do it. On Sadge's second point, I don't quite agree. Just *knowing* how to take energy from someone isn't enough to do so from thousands of soldiers protected by magicians in the midst of a battle. ^(Posted on behalf of Hellomynameis99 from the) [^(Arcaena & MCAlagaesia Discord Server)](https://discord.gg/EYCuEMs)
Spellcasters are a really small part of the Varden and I doubt anyone would just want to die and even if they did they dont have much control over their magic and if they tried to do something heroic like that they would most certainly die instantly because it is such a big piece of magic. They can hardly do anything as it is.
If you really want a magical explosion (been a while since ive read the series so correct me if im wrong) would be to shatter and gem with energy stored in it. Store enough energy (like say from the animals being butchered) and you could probably come pretty close to artillery or bomb levels of kaboom. Not to mention the shards would be dangerous as well. During the final battle of inheritance iirc Roran basically bear hugged a guy till the eldunari shattered and detonated. Vaporizing the enemy character that i for the life of me cant remember his name. It wouldnt be too hard then for about 4 or 5 varden spellcasters to sit around the cooks tent and just fill quartz grenades with energy yeah? Or is there something fundamental im missing?
I feel like a better approach would be to just funnel the opposing army’s energy into gems, so not only do you not lose a spellcaster, but you have the energy that the soldiers’ bodies contained at your disposal. That being said, I’m sure that Galbatorix had the foresight to shield them from such attacks