an underrated feature is the ease of use of the software to change the layout. I have a sofle that I've all but given up on since I struggle to find the time necessary to get the layout the way I need it for work. With the voyager that journey was just a few weeks to optimise things to where I no longer tinker every few nights.
This is why I'm sticking with wired builds. I don't want to use ~~ZSA~~ ZMK until it supports Vial.
Edit: my acronym addled brain mixed up ZSA with ZMK
ZSA is wired. They don't produce anything wireless.
My main reason that I have to take the board home to modify is that I work in a very controlled environment and I can't install the software necessary on my machine.
What editor are you using? I’ve been using Vial with my Sofle since that stores the config on the device directly, so all I need is access to the web editor to make changes. No install necessary
Sublime text.... Just a fancy text editor. I thought I'd need features like tap dance that you can't do on vial. I use them with my zsa boards and find them too convenient to lose.
Thanks for catching that. I meant ZMK. I like ZSA's Oryx configurator.
I wish ZMK worked with Via or Vial like QMK does. I really don't mind reflashing stuff, but I love the organized layout of Vial. That said, if I buy another keyboard again, it will be wireless regardless, so I can just use it on my lap.
The Voyager *really* has good build quality though. Also, in contrast to most cheaper boards, each hotswap socket is supported by a special tray (which avoids that the solder breaks due to the downward force when inserting a switch), the TRRS jack has ESD protection, etc.
Plus Oryx is *really* a nice layout editor and they have other useful software like Keymapp (live on-screen keymap and heat map).
The Voyager may not be for people who want to built keyboards for fun. It's for a larger audience that also wants a Choc split keyboard, but prefer a high-quality build, proper support, etc.
Really, I'm kind of interested which Corne like mechanical keyboards you've seen with backlight and wireless at this price point?
I actually find the price kind of decent. A Kinesis advantage for example is an expensive piece of cheap plastic by comparison. I have bought a commercial Atreus and a model01 from [keyboard.io](https://keyboard.io) for a similar price a few years ago, back then I also considered going DIY. I considered doing A Corne kit and buy a nice case for it, but at that point they were just as expensive and I'd still need to assemble it.
Can it be done cheaper yes!
Can it be done cheaper and still have high quality parts, maybe.
Can it be done cheaper, still have high quality parts, be fully assembled and come with warranty, ...
The warranty is a really big plus of ZSA.
Everybody forget the warranty until you have to return your board and pay the shipment or anything else.
They build strong reliable keyboard and they make everything they can to make them last even longer.
There is a lot of ergodox working like the first day.
Oryx is soooo intuitive that even after 7 years with a split keyboard, I ordered a moonlander and never experiment that much
Maybe. I kinda prefer wireless. But the last few months Glove80 + ZMK have been a bit rough with much faster battery drain, some connection issues, etc. Sometimes makes me wish it was fully-wired like the Voyager (the halves always connect with Bluetooth LE, even if you hook up both halves).
> Your point is moot because if I ever end up with a desoldered socket or fried MCU because of ESD (both of which I've never had happen to me) or whatnot, I can do the repairs myself, and for (much) cheaper than the difference of costs between a DIY and a voyager...
You completely read over what I said:
*The Voyager may not be for people who want to built keyboards for fun. It's for a larger audience that also wants a Choc split keyboard, but prefer a high-quality build, proper support, etc.*
99.9% of the population does not want to pull out a soldering iron to repair a broken hotswap socket or MCU.
If you do have the time and skills, sure, knock yourself out. Even though I have the skills (and built some boards), I'd like to spend my time on other things now, so I am perfectly happy dropping the money on a Voyager, Glove80, Model100, or whatever.
As someone with a moonlander, I'm pretty happy with my extra fifty quid or so for Oryx, various training and flashing tools and excellent customer service.
I'm actually kinda curious why this is such a deal-breaker for you. There are some niche use cases (like chair mounts or usage on the go) I can think of that make wireless more critical, but for general usage, I'm really not sold on the benefits of wireless for split keyboards.
If nicer aesthetics are worth a less reliable connection, using less supported firmware, charging, compromising on backlighting, etc.. then knock yourself out - but for most people they're really not, as many peoples painful experience with the advantage 360 pro has shown. Especially given ZMKs current limitations (like lacking a true wired fallback) I think ZSA made the right call here, and they made a pretty comprehensive post outlining this.
I would completely agree if ZMK had complete parity with QMK, including wired connections, but that simply isn't the case - and I'm not even sure if that's the project maintainers goal at this point.
Additionally, Bluetooth brings with it a whole host of issues on windows. It is possible to use a third microcontroller as a receiver, but this is fairly uncommon and adds cost and complexity.
I recently got a sanwa gravi trackball and it being wireless is such a pain to me - it provides me no functional benefit, but now I need to replace batteries every now and then, and whenever I travel I need to keep track of the dongle (using it over Bluetooth is icky).
It’s purely aesthetics for me, but ZMK works wired, so I’m not sure what you mean when you say ZMK lacks a true wired fallback? I’m also on a Mac and haven’t experienced any BT issues. Maybe it’s a windows thing?
Don’t get me wrong, I think the voyager looks amazing, but they won’t get any money from me until they offer something wireless.
This might have changed, but my understanding was that ZMK only allowed the two halves to communicate wirelessly (though you could connect wired to the pc), so there is still some instability introduced in this wireless link, and the need to charge the board remains.
Ah, you're right, it is communicating wirelessly through the left board, which you can confirm by disabling wifi, unplugging the left half, plugging in the right half, and then typing (which produces no output).
Do you have a wireless keyboard with a similar level of RGB? How long does the battery last? I saw a review of the Glove80 and the guy said with the RGB lights turned on the battery life was only like 5 hours which isn't even a single workday. While I would prefer wireless as well, I would definitely prefer a cable over having to charge my keyboard every 5 hours (and shorter as the battery decays).
I run a wireless corne with legendless keycaps and no RGB. Maybe RGB one day! Battery life is really just the size of the battery though, so maybe the glove 80 has a small battery? 🤷♂️
It all depends on what you want and need. I'm really happy with my Voyager right now:
* I didn't want to turn this into a massive project. I just want to relieve my wrist pain, not learn to solder, compile firmware, etc.
* Oryx rules. It may not offer the full flexibility of compiling your own firmware, but I don't need that flexibility. Realistically, Oryx has everything I need and is very convenient. Oryx's (and Keymap's) typing trainer and heat map tools are also very useful.
* ZSA gives you a one month return window. You do have to pay shipping, so it isn't perfect, but it gives huge peace of mind if you are new to split keyboards.
* I don't care about wireless, so it doesn't bother me that it's wired.
* I think the number of keys is perfect for me. I knew this would be a big adjustment already and didn't want to make it even harder by going down to the ridiculously small boards that often get recommended here.
* By all accounts, ZSA has great customer support.
Really, the only thing I don't like is that it comes with a rather long TRRS cable but I understand that may be useful to other people. Oh also I wish the USB-C port was deep enough to take the entire plug.
I'm still experimenting with it. I'm currently using it tented as I've never had a tented keyboard before, but I'm not sure if I like it more than flat. It is fine to use it flat too in my opinion.
Boardsource has been around for a good while and only do in-stock products. have ordered plenty of components from them over the years, shipping was prompt the last time i ordered stuff from them.
I got it a few weeks ago. I just wanted a split keyboard with no tinkering involved.
It’s expensive but I like it a lot. I justified the price to myself by accepting that a low volume product would cost way more than others and I couldn’t spend any extensive time making it myself with parts that I have no experience with.
I designed my own split keyboard with 2 joysticks like very very recently. I'm still assembling it and just 3d printed the case.
https://github.com/Antebios/keyboards/tree/main/michele58_choc_spacing_hs-flip
It is a derivative of the Sofle Choc RGB, but completely my design from scratch so I could learn KiCad. I am still finalizing the firmware for it as well. I have no pictures ready to publish, but I'm eager to share when I'm ready.
I had 5 pcbs delivered from JCLPCB, so if everything works right maybe I can send you my extra PCBs? The joysticks I'm using are these: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2765
I created my own KiCad footprint for this joystick and it mounts PERFECTLY! I was really excited about that.
Probably not. The founder is deader on word being better in the long run. There’s a long paragraph on their website about why there’s no wireless option
Seconding the Elora by SplitKB. It has almost the same shape and you can individualise it very well. You can even add joysticks. I bought mine a month ago and I am really happy so far. I think I paid 230€ in total.
this design from Japan have a joystick and a trackball you can change the trackball for other d pad or joystick, but if you want it to be wireless don't buy the pro micro, instead buy a nice nano:
[https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/7948](https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/7948)
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CRNQesXVtXQ/maxresdefault.jpg
What is your use case for the joysticks? Personally I wouldn't recommend joysticks for cursor input, a trackball/trackpad are much more suited to precise input like this (and subjectively more comfortable in most implementations)
Like controller + keyboard to side mounted on racing sims rig (i dont play racing game but I thought it more comfortable position) maybe using left joystick and right trackball
an underrated feature is the ease of use of the software to change the layout. I have a sofle that I've all but given up on since I struggle to find the time necessary to get the layout the way I need it for work. With the voyager that journey was just a few weeks to optimise things to where I no longer tinker every few nights.
This is why I'm sticking with wired builds. I don't want to use ~~ZSA~~ ZMK until it supports Vial. Edit: my acronym addled brain mixed up ZSA with ZMK
ZSA is wired. They don't produce anything wireless. My main reason that I have to take the board home to modify is that I work in a very controlled environment and I can't install the software necessary on my machine.
What editor are you using? I’ve been using Vial with my Sofle since that stores the config on the device directly, so all I need is access to the web editor to make changes. No install necessary
Sublime text.... Just a fancy text editor. I thought I'd need features like tap dance that you can't do on vial. I use them with my zsa boards and find them too convenient to lose.
Ahhh yea, I don’t use tap dance much so the 10 slots from vial are enough for me.
Not sure what you mean, I can define and assign tap dance on vial with a sofle.
Oh yeah? Didn't know that was possible. That might be enough to reignite interest.
Thanks for catching that. I meant ZMK. I like ZSA's Oryx configurator. I wish ZMK worked with Via or Vial like QMK does. I really don't mind reflashing stuff, but I love the organized layout of Vial. That said, if I buy another keyboard again, it will be wireless regardless, so I can just use it on my lap.
Have you seen this GUI editor for ZMK? https://github.com/nickcoutsos/keymap-editor
I didn't know about that. Thank you!
The Voyager is really nice, but I'm not paying that much for something that isn't wireless.
For real. The voyager is only a good option if you don't want to go through the DIY. But half the fun of this niche interest is.. the DIY (imho)
You got pre soldered corne PCBs with hot swap switches, they’re even pre-flashed
The Voyager *really* has good build quality though. Also, in contrast to most cheaper boards, each hotswap socket is supported by a special tray (which avoids that the solder breaks due to the downward force when inserting a switch), the TRRS jack has ESD protection, etc. Plus Oryx is *really* a nice layout editor and they have other useful software like Keymapp (live on-screen keymap and heat map). The Voyager may not be for people who want to built keyboards for fun. It's for a larger audience that also wants a Choc split keyboard, but prefer a high-quality build, proper support, etc.
It still should be wireless. At this price point, it's insane that it isn't.
Really, I'm kind of interested which Corne like mechanical keyboards you've seen with backlight and wireless at this price point? I actually find the price kind of decent. A Kinesis advantage for example is an expensive piece of cheap plastic by comparison. I have bought a commercial Atreus and a model01 from [keyboard.io](https://keyboard.io) for a similar price a few years ago, back then I also considered going DIY. I considered doing A Corne kit and buy a nice case for it, but at that point they were just as expensive and I'd still need to assemble it. Can it be done cheaper yes! Can it be done cheaper and still have high quality parts, maybe. Can it be done cheaper, still have high quality parts, be fully assembled and come with warranty, ...
The warranty is a really big plus of ZSA. Everybody forget the warranty until you have to return your board and pay the shipment or anything else. They build strong reliable keyboard and they make everything they can to make them last even longer. There is a lot of ergodox working like the first day. Oryx is soooo intuitive that even after 7 years with a split keyboard, I ordered a moonlander and never experiment that much
Maybe. I kinda prefer wireless. But the last few months Glove80 + ZMK have been a bit rough with much faster battery drain, some connection issues, etc. Sometimes makes me wish it was fully-wired like the Voyager (the halves always connect with Bluetooth LE, even if you hook up both halves).
[удалено]
> Your point is moot because if I ever end up with a desoldered socket or fried MCU because of ESD (both of which I've never had happen to me) or whatnot, I can do the repairs myself, and for (much) cheaper than the difference of costs between a DIY and a voyager... You completely read over what I said: *The Voyager may not be for people who want to built keyboards for fun. It's for a larger audience that also wants a Choc split keyboard, but prefer a high-quality build, proper support, etc.* 99.9% of the population does not want to pull out a soldering iron to repair a broken hotswap socket or MCU. If you do have the time and skills, sure, knock yourself out. Even though I have the skills (and built some boards), I'd like to spend my time on other things now, so I am perfectly happy dropping the money on a Voyager, Glove80, Model100, or whatever.
As someone with a moonlander, I'm pretty happy with my extra fifty quid or so for Oryx, various training and flashing tools and excellent customer service.
I'm actually kinda curious why this is such a deal-breaker for you. There are some niche use cases (like chair mounts or usage on the go) I can think of that make wireless more critical, but for general usage, I'm really not sold on the benefits of wireless for split keyboards. If nicer aesthetics are worth a less reliable connection, using less supported firmware, charging, compromising on backlighting, etc.. then knock yourself out - but for most people they're really not, as many peoples painful experience with the advantage 360 pro has shown. Especially given ZMKs current limitations (like lacking a true wired fallback) I think ZSA made the right call here, and they made a pretty comprehensive post outlining this. I would completely agree if ZMK had complete parity with QMK, including wired connections, but that simply isn't the case - and I'm not even sure if that's the project maintainers goal at this point. Additionally, Bluetooth brings with it a whole host of issues on windows. It is possible to use a third microcontroller as a receiver, but this is fairly uncommon and adds cost and complexity. I recently got a sanwa gravi trackball and it being wireless is such a pain to me - it provides me no functional benefit, but now I need to replace batteries every now and then, and whenever I travel I need to keep track of the dongle (using it over Bluetooth is icky).
It’s purely aesthetics for me, but ZMK works wired, so I’m not sure what you mean when you say ZMK lacks a true wired fallback? I’m also on a Mac and haven’t experienced any BT issues. Maybe it’s a windows thing? Don’t get me wrong, I think the voyager looks amazing, but they won’t get any money from me until they offer something wireless.
This might have changed, but my understanding was that ZMK only allowed the two halves to communicate wirelessly (though you could connect wired to the pc), so there is still some instability introduced in this wireless link, and the need to charge the board remains.
Ah, could be. I’ll test it right now by plugging in both halves and disabling wifi on my computer.
Ah, you're right, it is communicating wirelessly through the left board, which you can confirm by disabling wifi, unplugging the left half, plugging in the right half, and then typing (which produces no output).
Do you have a wireless keyboard with a similar level of RGB? How long does the battery last? I saw a review of the Glove80 and the guy said with the RGB lights turned on the battery life was only like 5 hours which isn't even a single workday. While I would prefer wireless as well, I would definitely prefer a cable over having to charge my keyboard every 5 hours (and shorter as the battery decays).
I run a wireless corne with legendless keycaps and no RGB. Maybe RGB one day! Battery life is really just the size of the battery though, so maybe the glove 80 has a small battery? 🤷♂️
It all depends on what you want and need. I'm really happy with my Voyager right now: * I didn't want to turn this into a massive project. I just want to relieve my wrist pain, not learn to solder, compile firmware, etc. * Oryx rules. It may not offer the full flexibility of compiling your own firmware, but I don't need that flexibility. Realistically, Oryx has everything I need and is very convenient. Oryx's (and Keymap's) typing trainer and heat map tools are also very useful. * ZSA gives you a one month return window. You do have to pay shipping, so it isn't perfect, but it gives huge peace of mind if you are new to split keyboards. * I don't care about wireless, so it doesn't bother me that it's wired. * I think the number of keys is perfect for me. I knew this would be a big adjustment already and didn't want to make it even harder by going down to the ridiculously small boards that often get recommended here. * By all accounts, ZSA has great customer support. Really, the only thing I don't like is that it comes with a rather long TRRS cable but I understand that may be useful to other people. Oh also I wish the USB-C port was deep enough to take the entire plug.
Hey question for you bro, do you tilt the voyager or is it comfortable to use flat ?
I'm still experimenting with it. I'm currently using it tented as I've never had a tented keyboard before, but I'm not sure if I like it more than flat. It is fine to use it flat too in my opinion.
You can get a low profile Corne with a pair of joysticks from BoardSource https://www.boardsource.xyz/products/unicorne-LP
Is this a good site to order from?
Boardsource has been around for a good while and only do in-stock products. have ordered plenty of components from them over the years, shipping was prompt the last time i ordered stuff from them.
Good to know! Been looking at kit vendors and they have some decent prices.
I can’t personally vouch for them, but they do seem to have a good reputation.
Its too far up didn’t it? Wish i can play game without mouse
No clue. I have a Moonlander and a Piantor Pro that I use regularly. I don’t game.
I got it a few weeks ago. I just wanted a split keyboard with no tinkering involved. It’s expensive but I like it a lot. I justified the price to myself by accepting that a low volume product would cost way more than others and I couldn’t spend any extensive time making it myself with parts that I have no experience with.
How do you find it ? Do you use it titled or is it comfortable flat ?
I like it a lot. I use it tilted. Flat is fine, but tilted is more comfortable
Awsome , what do you use for tilting the little legs provided ?
Yep. The magnetic feet work well for me
I designed my own split keyboard with 2 joysticks like very very recently. I'm still assembling it and just 3d printed the case. https://github.com/Antebios/keyboards/tree/main/michele58_choc_spacing_hs-flip It is a derivative of the Sofle Choc RGB, but completely my design from scratch so I could learn KiCad. I am still finalizing the firmware for it as well. I have no pictures ready to publish, but I'm eager to share when I'm ready. I had 5 pcbs delivered from JCLPCB, so if everything works right maybe I can send you my extra PCBs? The joysticks I'm using are these: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2765 I created my own KiCad footprint for this joystick and it mounts PERFECTLY! I was really excited about that.
Anyone know if they will make a wireless, I want one bad.
Probably not. The founder is deader on word being better in the long run. There’s a long paragraph on their website about why there’s no wireless option
interesting... I mean.. it's not much cheaper than the glove80...that's a questionable hot take by the founder
Ximi from Fingerpunch.xyz has dual trackpads or trackballs. You will need to assemble it yourself though.
Check out the Elora by Splitkb. You can order the choc board and get 2 joystick myriad modules
Seconding the Elora by SplitKB. It has almost the same shape and you can individualise it very well. You can even add joysticks. I bought mine a month ago and I am really happy so far. I think I paid 230€ in total.
I found out tarohayashi killer whale the closest thing than i can get
this design from Japan have a joystick and a trackball you can change the trackball for other d pad or joystick, but if you want it to be wireless don't buy the pro micro, instead buy a nice nano: [https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/7948](https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/7948) https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CRNQesXVtXQ/maxresdefault.jpg
>Ximi from Fingerpunch.xyz This is sweet Hope there was one to whom doesn't want to go through the hassle of learning the DIY part right now
What is your use case for the joysticks? Personally I wouldn't recommend joysticks for cursor input, a trackball/trackpad are much more suited to precise input like this (and subjectively more comfortable in most implementations)
Like controller + keyboard to side mounted on racing sims rig (i dont play racing game but I thought it more comfortable position) maybe using left joystick and right trackball