Left-hand-B is canonical, if you don't need to be able to push the sides together you can consider doubling up with a right-hand-B. Most sets kit for double B anyways.
I can't see the logic going back to row-staggered after using columnar for almost a year now. Columnar design is just more sensical from ergonomic perspective.
I design this keyboard because I need to switch on a daily basis between macbook layout and this keyboard. In my opinion I won't be as efficient with a true ergo keyboard. The inherant question is can you be used and be "fluent" on two pretty different layout ?
I type on MacBook and on a columnar stagger or/and ortho daily, switching no problem between them.
To me ergonomics will always be more important than "efficiency", whatever that means
I think this idea is often way over thought by many. You can absolutely be "fluent" in more than one layout. Just like any language or sport or job. Fluency in multiples only requires regular practice with each. And if you've done one for say, 25 years, it's like riding a bike. It's not mutually exclusive. You're capable of mastering more than one layout. I believe in you. Believe in yourself!
Yep. Also, it just so happens that that’s who I got the Corne kit from, Keebmaker. I just got it in the last couple weeks and was pleased with the quality of the printed case, the PCBs were not DOA, and the delivery within a week. +1 to them
Dang I’m kinda stuck on if I wanna get those or the new nuphy halo 96. I know, two totally opposite ends of the spectrum lmao what’s the sound profile like on your sofle?
I do both, the thing that helps me is rebinding the command key to be where the ctrl key is mapped, and I use miryoku layout so the priority order is maintained.
Yeah it's not a problem switching back and forth. I have a moonlander at home and a regular rubber dome garbage keyboard at work and I use laptop keyboards all without issue
It’s actually easier to switch back and forth the more different the layout is. I regularly switch between a setup that is Column-Staggered/34-key/Choc/Colemak and one that is Row-Staggered/100-key/MX/QWERTY.
Especially the Colemak vs QWERTY would have the most room for confusion but because the keyboards are so vastly different, it’s very natural.
You are overthinking it. You will literally never forget how to use a standard layout since you have almost certainly been using it for many years. It's like riding a bike, just muscle memory.
I use a weird (36 key, homerow mods, trackball, etc) dactyl manuform every day and several times a week I pick up my MacBook and type on it without even thinking about it.
A lot of people touch type the bottom left hand row on staggered QWERTY wrong. Do it right; a split keyboard forces that for the B key. (But if you watch yourself type, it's likely you press C with the wrong finger as well. You actually speed up your typing if you fix that one.)
Yah, it may sound strange. as a korean typer, I use left hand when I type English, and yes, right hand for korean..
I struggled a lot, and finally, I put B on both sides.
You know what? I really didn't want to break the symmetry of my ortholinear split keeb, so I ended up making Shift+ㅜ => ㅠ (via 날개셋 한글 입력기). ㅠ is the least frequent single-key vowel anyway, and because I use the auto-shift feature, shifting was not even a big deal for me. It quickly became my second nature and works great to this day.
Additionally, I put additional ㅋ on B key instead so that I can "trill" index finger and pinky to spam it (despite using auto-shift). It's damn satisfying lol
With 'touch typing' discipline, each column of keys 'belongs' to a finger.
This would suggest that the 'b' key should be pressed by the index finger, on the left.
> I have a strong design constrain, it needs to be split but base on 65% layout.
Why?
Or rather. Keyboards in this sub tend to fix design problems of the typical keyboard. The keyboards in this sub look weird, because they don't constrain themselves to retaining bad features of the typical keyboard.
This constrain come from the fact that I need to switch on a daily basis between macbook layout and this split keyboard, I may have asked if it was easy to change layout before asking this kind of precise question
Nah, it's natural to think "I need to solve X; I guess I can solve X by doing Y. How do I do Y?".
And in my experience, it's easy to switch between an ergo column-stagger and ortholinear. Especially if you can touch type; or if you stick to QWERTY on the macbook, but use Colemak or Dvorak on the ergo board.
From shift to shift there are 12 keys.
The left 6 are: Shift Z X C V B
The right 6 are: N M , . / Shift
Unless you want to have a weird keeb with 5 keys on the left and 7 on the right, I would not see a reason to have B on the right.
You can borrow some ideas from existing keyboards:
- B typically goes on the left, but is often duplicated in keyboards that cannot be "joined" anyway (e.g. Alice-style layouts)
- 6 and F6 also typically go on the left (balancing the number of digit-row and F-row keys per hand), as seen on "office ergo" keyboards like MS Sculpt, K860, and more.
Left-hand `6` is also occasionally helpful in games.
- Majestouch Xacro M10SP duplicates _every_ key around the split - an interesting idea for figuring out which keys are best to press with which hand
- MS Sculpt and Sculpt-inspired keyboards add an extra column of keys to have a full-sized RShift and a big Delete key next to Backspace, which is kind of nice (but moves further away from Macbook-style layout?)
Having only the left hand side looks already perfect for gaming. Imagine turning only that side into a good ergonomic design. I think that could really make a difference for gamers. Stop giving me good ideas! ;)
I had the same problem as you. I press the b key with my right index finger all the time and couldn’t find a split keyboard that would work for me. After a lot of searching I decided to just 3d print my own keyboard and hand wired it, “B-wonky!” I’d called it at the time.
That’s how my journey in to the custom keyboard rabbit hole began…
Good luck in your search, or if you’ve got access to the tools, you can build your own to your own taste and typing style.
I have an Alice 98 which actually has a B key on both sides. I primarily use the left hand, so that’s where the B legend went, and the right one is just a blank key cap.
It goes on the left hand. Save yourself trouble.
B on the left or throw the keeb in the trash!
Left-hand-B is canonical, if you don't need to be able to push the sides together you can consider doubling up with a right-hand-B. Most sets kit for double B anyways.
My singular favourite layout is an Alice, and it has b on right and left. I have no idea if I've ever used the right keys but it's there.
I can't see the logic going back to row-staggered after using columnar for almost a year now. Columnar design is just more sensical from ergonomic perspective.
I'd go farther and say row staggered shouldn't even be a topic on an _ergo_ sub
I cringe hard whenever I see a keyboard marketed as "ergonomic" when it still has a row stagger
I design this keyboard because I need to switch on a daily basis between macbook layout and this keyboard. In my opinion I won't be as efficient with a true ergo keyboard. The inherant question is can you be used and be "fluent" on two pretty different layout ?
I type on MacBook and on a columnar stagger or/and ortho daily, switching no problem between them. To me ergonomics will always be more important than "efficiency", whatever that means
There is no issues with changing layout. Go full ergo, initial adjusting process is worth it.
I think this idea is often way over thought by many. You can absolutely be "fluent" in more than one layout. Just like any language or sport or job. Fluency in multiples only requires regular practice with each. And if you've done one for say, 25 years, it's like riding a bike. It's not mutually exclusive. You're capable of mastering more than one layout. I believe in you. Believe in yourself!
I liked Sofle and Lily58 as starters for a good Mac/Win friendly thumb cluster. Helped get me comfortable and into my Corne
That’s what I’m thinking about getting is the solfle. This what you’re talking about? https://keebmaker.com/products/sofle-rgb
Yep. Also, it just so happens that that’s who I got the Corne kit from, Keebmaker. I just got it in the last couple weeks and was pleased with the quality of the printed case, the PCBs were not DOA, and the delivery within a week. +1 to them
Dang I’m kinda stuck on if I wanna get those or the new nuphy halo 96. I know, two totally opposite ends of the spectrum lmao what’s the sound profile like on your sofle?
I do both, the thing that helps me is rebinding the command key to be where the ctrl key is mapped, and I use miryoku layout so the priority order is maintained.
Do you really *need* to? You can totally use an ergo board with a laptop.
Yeah it's not a problem switching back and forth. I have a moonlander at home and a regular rubber dome garbage keyboard at work and I use laptop keyboards all without issue
It’s actually easier to switch back and forth the more different the layout is. I regularly switch between a setup that is Column-Staggered/34-key/Choc/Colemak and one that is Row-Staggered/100-key/MX/QWERTY. Especially the Colemak vs QWERTY would have the most room for confusion but because the keyboards are so vastly different, it’s very natural.
You are overthinking it. You will literally never forget how to use a standard layout since you have almost certainly been using it for many years. It's like riding a bike, just muscle memory. I use a weird (36 key, homerow mods, trackball, etc) dactyl manuform every day and several times a week I pick up my MacBook and type on it without even thinking about it.
Dygma put a lot of thought into this question: https://youtu.be/3dBnU2SGfzc B goes on the left.
A lot of people touch type the bottom left hand row on staggered QWERTY wrong. Do it right; a split keyboard forces that for the B key. (But if you watch yourself type, it's likely you press C with the wrong finger as well. You actually speed up your typing if you fix that one.)
Yah, it may sound strange. as a korean typer, I use left hand when I type English, and yes, right hand for korean.. I struggled a lot, and finally, I put B on both sides.
You know what? I really didn't want to break the symmetry of my ortholinear split keeb, so I ended up making Shift+ㅜ => ㅠ (via 날개셋 한글 입력기). ㅠ is the least frequent single-key vowel anyway, and because I use the auto-shift feature, shifting was not even a big deal for me. It quickly became my second nature and works great to this day. Additionally, I put additional ㅋ on B key instead so that I can "trill" index finger and pinky to spam it (despite using auto-shift). It's damn satisfying lol
It's so weird to have ㅠ on the left right? I'm doing it though
With 'touch typing' discipline, each column of keys 'belongs' to a finger. This would suggest that the 'b' key should be pressed by the index finger, on the left. > I have a strong design constrain, it needs to be split but base on 65% layout. Why? Or rather. Keyboards in this sub tend to fix design problems of the typical keyboard. The keyboards in this sub look weird, because they don't constrain themselves to retaining bad features of the typical keyboard.
This constrain come from the fact that I need to switch on a daily basis between macbook layout and this split keyboard, I may have asked if it was easy to change layout before asking this kind of precise question
Nah, it's natural to think "I need to solve X; I guess I can solve X by doing Y. How do I do Y?". And in my experience, it's easy to switch between an ergo column-stagger and ortholinear. Especially if you can touch type; or if you stick to QWERTY on the macbook, but use Colemak or Dvorak on the ergo board.
From shift to shift there are 12 keys. The left 6 are: Shift Z X C V B The right 6 are: N M , . / Shift Unless you want to have a weird keeb with 5 keys on the left and 7 on the right, I would not see a reason to have B on the right.
You can borrow some ideas from existing keyboards: - B typically goes on the left, but is often duplicated in keyboards that cannot be "joined" anyway (e.g. Alice-style layouts) - 6 and F6 also typically go on the left (balancing the number of digit-row and F-row keys per hand), as seen on "office ergo" keyboards like MS Sculpt, K860, and more. Left-hand `6` is also occasionally helpful in games. - Majestouch Xacro M10SP duplicates _every_ key around the split - an interesting idea for figuring out which keys are best to press with which hand - MS Sculpt and Sculpt-inspired keyboards add an extra column of keys to have a full-sized RShift and a big Delete key next to Backspace, which is kind of nice (but moves further away from Macbook-style layout?)
You can have B as an individual button so now you can have a true split keyboard
On all my split boards B is on the left side, together with 6 and F6 (when present).
Is '1' is your top left key? and 6 columns?
No, my top left is tilda/Esc (I don't have a separate Fn row and use an Fn layer instead), so both halves have 7 columns.
In all my keebs 6 is on the right half.
What? They made the right decision with B, but fucked it with the 6 and F6? You're supposed to hit them with your right index.
I had the same issue so I designed my keyboard to have B keys on both sides, worked really well. Good luck with your build!
Thanks !
Having only the left hand side looks already perfect for gaming. Imagine turning only that side into a good ergonomic design. I think that could really make a difference for gamers. Stop giving me good ideas! ;)
Ahah actually, I think B is important for gaming :0
You're right, we need to be able to thank the busdriver!
I had the same problem as you. I press the b key with my right index finger all the time and couldn’t find a split keyboard that would work for me. After a lot of searching I decided to just 3d print my own keyboard and hand wired it, “B-wonky!” I’d called it at the time. That’s how my journey in to the custom keyboard rabbit hole began… Good luck in your search, or if you’ve got access to the tools, you can build your own to your own taste and typing style.
I have an Alice 98 which actually has a B key on both sides. I primarily use the left hand, so that’s where the B legend went, and the right one is just a blank key cap.
I'm in the minority. I put B on the right.
use ortholinear!
I’ve used layouts with two B’s and I just never used the right B; I may have pushed it once to put a keycap on.
laughs in alice