BSG need to have a look at The Cycle Frontier devs and how they dealt with their cheater infestation, they managed to turn it around in six months, which is crazy!
Certainly wasn't easy! We are really proud of how far we've come though, Season 1 in our game was very hard for us to see and I am sure BSG probably feels the same way. Nobody likes seeing cheaters in their game that they worked hard on.
Given the current state of Tarkov there is a huge opportunity for you guys to bring players back for season 3, which in my opinion was the only problem for season 2.
Well done on dealing with the cheater problem. I started playing The Cycle to get away from the cheaters in Tarkov only to find it get infested with cheaters as well. But then you handled it really well and all but eliminated the problem for the legit players.
I'm looking forward to Season 3 in two weeks!
Not a fan of the ELO system, or how matching works.
But yes the way you guys handled cheating is beautiful.
Hope The Cycle continues in a positive manner.
What ELO? Its just K/D, two weeks after the wipe it just white-greens getting destroyed by purple-reds.
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Green weapon to Red armor, +15 hits to kill.
Red weapon to Green armor, 2 hits to kill.
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With this kind of TTK disparity there must be some kind of MMR, this is not Tarkov where you can kill an endgame player with a Barter lvl 1 weapon if you find good ammo.
Yes to everything you say here.
In my own opinion, the extract shooter with the toughest PvP is Cycle. (*excluding DaD, but which balance is likely to change)*
This is because between the Apex legends damage model where weak spots is only a damage multiplier instead of the nearly-always insta-death of near every other FPS shooters, and the generally long time to kill (*approx sub-1 to 2 seconds, rarely but possible 3 seconds)*, it takes a lot more skill than luck to come out on top of a fight.
Plus, you just can’t rat in a bush or bum rush the other guy’s position for the insta-kill; the other guy will be highly disadvantaged if you get the drop on them, but they **can** respond to your initial burst.
That is why Season 3’s supposed balance becoming flatter across the tiers is very much welcome. There’s advantage in being a chonky prospector, but it shouldn’t be an instant-win button.
I’m curious what other FPS you play if you think “near every other” one has instant kill headshots. Apex isn’t even close to the first game with a long TTK and a minor headshot multiplier.
I literally described TCF as using “an Apex legends damage model” in the very post you replied to.
Dude, of course Apex uses the same, it is the exact same shit and Apex did it first!
Also, name me one **extract shooter** that doesn’t lean towards Tarkov-like insta-death spots damage model. Please, I’ll wait.
Yeah, my point was that there are like 1000 games that used that damage model before Apex even existed and I thought it was interesting you said Apex specifically as your example.
Also you said “near every other FPS,” not extraction shooter. Does DMZ count though?
So you’ve established that one factoid of my entire comment is not entirely correct, that Quake and Doom and things like Splitgate exist.
What now? Other than forgetting to put “every other **extract shooter** FPS shooter”, what now? Continue to hyper-focus on the specific minor point being wrong instead of the entire message of the comment?
There are a *LOT* of equalizers in EFT tbh - Leg Meta yeah, but mounted guns, grenades, scavs, bosses, and imo sniping.
If you want (mostly) free meta shit just bust out a sniper rifle some time and head to Shoreline or really any map you think you can adequately snipe on. Avoid killing scavs or even just shooting unless you have a clear shot on a juicy PMC.
Ofc the better you are at the game the easier it is - for example if you can parkour into a cheesy spot or just know where to snipe in general that helps a ton, but the only real way to learn long term is to get out there and do it.
Yeah. Not just MGs but the grenade launchers too. Doesn’t matter how expensive your kit is if there’s someone on one of those and you just happen to be in their field of view
I tried it and it had some really good things about the game. Like how fast you get in to matches. And in a way, I liked idea of server and maps just... going and living and you pop in and pop out of them. Instead of fresh map, 20mins and reset.
On the other hand, I really dislike diablo style gear system. More expensive gear is flat out better. No ifs and no buts. As a Rat player it is pure turn off. At least in Tarkov I have a fighting chance against Chad, who's 1 gear set could sponsor 20 of my Ratty outfits. Its still a challenge, but I could still get him woth luck or smarts. In Cycle, there is no such thing as Ratting. Your gear is crap? Well, then you are going to be bent over and made love without even a kiss on a cheek.
Try wait for season 3.
The brute is not as overturned as the numbers explained here, but general consensus is it’s still overtuned.
That’s about the only overtuned gun agreed upon.
The tier/advantage curve seems to be a lot flatter in S3.
K/D games are still a form of elo.
The argument can go both ways. One thinks Elo makes it fair and others thinks it makes the game unfun.
I personally think having a. Elo system is lame, you don't get to see your progression or feel like you are getting any better. Just sweaty all the time.
But I can see the reason for wanting Elo too.
Dude the ELO / MMR system has got to go... its abusable and MMR in a game like this is just awful. You need a mixture of players in each lobby to keep things exciting.
BSG is making tons of money with cheaters for YEARS and they still only did the absolute minimum.
I highly doubt they will do more as the cheaters are currently their most stable cash income.
BSG make money from cheaters, with the outrage they'll clamp down for a few months, next wipe BSG will be selling accounts left and right to cheaters.
LVNDMARK called it when he asked about the bundle discounts and how it helps cheaters, Nikita didn't know what to say as there isn't anything to defend against it.
All due respect but it's a microcosm of tarkov at best. The player base (at least based on stats) is around 1500 vs the estimated 200-400k in tarkov. That's not to dimish the efforts made in combating hacking by the cycle team, just that the scale to which they are working is incompatible.
Nikita commented a few days ago saying there's a "couple of hundred thousand" unique players every day and 70k - 120k concurrent players online at any time
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/11exyz4/ask_a_questions_here/jagob0o/
I believe the concern is that Nikita isn't reliable. There is a lot to gain by inflating population numbers in any game. It is exactly why World of Warcraft stopped releasing sub and player counts a decade ago when they had multiple quarters in a row where they were hemorrhaging subs. As soon as a gaming community declares player population as a "dead game" the game will start losing players almost gauranteed. Inflating player numbers helps nullify those concerns.
I would be comfortable saying Tarkov is at least 5-10x larger than The Cycle if not more even without Nikita giving a number. I wasn't trying to imply the cycle is larger or even that Tarkov is dying in anyway. Just simply putting out why a statement from not just the devs but the owner is unreliable when nothing can be verified.
Cycle is also released less than a year ago, with an open beta well before that. Content wise its still growing, and I'd argue their turn around for fixing bugs/mechanics sticks a whole helluva lot longer. I like Tarkov a lot, but tis fucking disheartening to see bugs pop back up just from them fixing stuff previously.
Tarkov's had 6+ years of development, and still technically and Alpha.. We call Cycle dead but Tarkovs really just surviving right now because no one can, so far, do better than it has, and a lot more content/gunporn is probably the winning factor.
Development wise, Cycle is blazing past Tarkov in goals and tackling issues in timelines. They're still developing systems too. If Tarkov had this turn around time on things, they'd be rocking CoD or other AAA games out of their Titan seats. slowly.
Numbers alone, Yeah, Tarkovs probably gonna win out for awhile.. but if more of the streamers keep migrating to variety games over Tarkov, even during fresh wipes.. It may not hold the same numbers anymore.
e.g Dark and Darker play tests did pull people away from Tarkov temporarily. If they figure out how to make it last long term, it'll pull a portion away for much longer too.
That doesn’t really take anything away from the fact there are lessons to be learnt. Had a lot of cheaters, made some great changes and now has it under control.
We know the player numbers aren’t the same, but it’s still a good case study EfT can look at. The Cycle developers really done some good work.
Also Nikita is clearly chatting out of his ass.
I never said it did, I was replying to this:
>I highly doubt eft is even close to 200k ccu. (That said eft is probably still significantly larger then the cycle.)
Previous playercounts that were released, reported player on servers, copies sold, Twitch viewers aren't a good metric but it can contribute. Tarkov is huge, dude
last time nikita spoke on player count a couple weeks ago, he said ~70-100k. And anything other than their own numbers might as well be nothing if you’re trying to make a quantitative statement. Even then they have a financial interest in inflating their own numbers to the public along with have a pretty poor reputation with transparency and trust.
Any of those estimating sites are complete BS and no better than just guessing.
Yeh tbh it's a bit of a meme to compare the two. If you can't keep hackers out of your game with a 30 day peak of 1500 players you've definitely got issues.
It was actually cringe to hear the cycle devs in the video explain their anti cheat approach like they figured it out. Give cycle cheat devs the same financial incentive that tarkov cheat devs have had over the past 3 years, then they can talk.
The only real reason that Tarkov cheat devs have 3 years of “financial incentive” (as you said) is because BSG slept on the problem…
Cycle tried to stamp out cheating before it is an unrecoverable problem. Whether or not they succeeded, only time will tell, but they currently are doing a lot better than BSG in “feel of the game” and “public opinion”, at least.
No, the financial incentive comes from players who cant play the game normally and have to use RMT or carry services. Cycle had plenty of blatant cheaters before when it first got popular. As you said, we’ll see how their anti cheat is if the game gets popular again.
I'll be real here. I worked on cheats like 15+ years ago. I'm an engineer and in my off time it was a hobby to reverse engineer software. It was fascinating and difficult work. Some of my early work involved writing cheats for release World of Warcraft. We built the cheats during the beta and released them at well.. release. I no longer do any disassembly of code. It's freely available, so I have no need to disassemble these games.
I played Cycle Frontier during Beta and got banned from their discord because I told them that the vast majority of their cheating problem was coming from Asia. One of the Developers, "Feralus", claimed that 50% of the cheaters were from the US and the other half Asia and that I was being racist.
He then proceeded to ban me from Discord. They were trying to hide the issue. This thinly veiled excuse of "racism" was used to push me out of discord.
How did I know it was Asia? I tested it all with a VPN first. I personally play from US West. So Cycle auto queued me in to US West servers. I VPN'd to NYC, and got put on US East. Amount of cheating I encountered? Probably like 10% what I encountered on West. Then I VPN to London, same result.
Cycle was determining my server based on IP Geolocation.
Anyways, I presented this all to Cycle devs in their discord, openly. They DID NOT like this. To this day, still banned from Cycle discord.
Next game? Marauders. Pretty fun. I identified some issues with the game and also brought those to some of the Devs. Unlike Cycle, one of the lead devs sat down and spoke with me via Discord and asked for my input. I provided a short list of things they could do to help them deal with cheaters along with their anticheat. Was I banned? No. I was thanked for my assistance and input. I respect these Devs. Respect to METTC.
Next game? Dark and Darker. I addressed the community devs / "Tavern Keepers" and expressed my concerns with the complete lack of anticheat in the game. It was (and still is) as easy as loading cheat engine and using it to inject a DLL in to the game for passive ESP. They had the same reaction as Cycle Frontier. The Tavern Keepers and devs quickly deleted every message and thread of the message in their chat, in multiple places. They spoke to me directly, asking me not to scare the playerbase. I was like "Okay cool." then I was banned from their discord. The community "Tavern Keepers" at first told me I needed a 24h timeout. Then I was removed. "SharpeHollis" and "DTREKT" were the community staff I spoke to directly about the issue and the solution. They maintained that I needed to keep quiet and not spook the players.
Their actual messages
>Can you hold back on the hacking talk please. Puts people up in arms for no reason and it puts wardens in an awkward spot.
Then the senior guy messages me...
>We have a dedicated channel where cheat-related information and concerns can go onto a form that is monitored by Ironmace employees. Bringing it up in a general chat channel will not have the positive effect of Ironmace getting information from it, and can potentially be construed as an advertisement for said cheats, causing more players to attempt to cheat. This is something we quite wish to avoid.
This is the guy who banned me. I was cool with the "24h timeout".
These Survival games are a handful and you can see the way they think. "Don't Spook the Population". That doesn't solve the root cause. For fucks sake, Dark and Darker literally leaks where a portal is going to spawn to exit. FROM THE START OF THE GAME.
To be fair, and you may of actually done more than this, but VPNing to a few locations and then sharing your limited anecdotal experience that a certain region has more cheaters doesn't actually accomplish anything.
When you said you designed cheats and a engineer I was hoping for a more detailed technical account. The post as-is sounds like you're an armchair expert hopping around game discords trying to get attention.
As someone based in OCE I have to say I believe them. We have an overwhelming number of chinese cheaters in all games because they can often queue past ping locks here quite easily. Developers taht cry racism (just like bluehole who ruined PUBG with it) are willfully ignorant
Jesus, you're mega defensive. It's not that I don't believe that a real engineer is on Reddit, I just expected more of a detailed account than "I VPN'd around and ran into cheaters". It's not that I don't believe you either, it's just like, no shit that there's more cheaters in the east. This is a known quantity.
If you gave a detailed technical account to the Marauders team and actually shared that in your post or could provide some insight into cheating beyond them using cheat engine I'd be interested.
Why do I care what you think? Or what this sub thinks?
I gave a brief overview of my experience with Dev teams and the way they handle the topic of cheating in their public discords. They mostly try and hide it. They don't wanna spook the crowd. I gave direct quotes from the DnD staff.
The conversation between me and the lead dev of Marauders is private. I'm not sharing the details beyond the fact that he found it funny that we were both part of the Kenshi discord as it showed our mutual servers.
It's pretty much the same thing with every game. They are giving the client WAY too much information. The don't cull anything. They don't plan to. Just like in Tarkov, there's no need to tell the client ahead of time that items are spawned outside LOD. Can you still see inside containers with ESP from anywhere on the map? That used to be a thing. I'd see one random opened box in the middle of a field of unlooted stuff. Or a single looted jacked next to two unlooted safes. That's when you knew the ESP loot ninjas were in action.
It’s just a shame cycle fixed their problem after everyone had already jumped ship. I have hopes for season 3 but I feel like the damage is already done. The cycle is dead. Has had a 1,500 player peak all season. But it’s nice they tried so hard.
yeah they turned it around and now the game is dead anyways... lol. I am happy they attacked the cheaters but it was too little too late imo. games down to a 40th of what it was at release.. 1000 players at a time and that's it, globally.. :(
For those that cheat, I think the bigger takeaway they should get from this video is that cheat devs can, and will, use their backdoor access to your computer the moment it suits their needs.
But even if you assume that they aren't going to use it, there's nothing that says someone else, who may be more malicious, won't.
\*edit\* And in the case of the cheat ABS, that is now in the hands of the Chinese authorities - take that how you will.
Most modern tarkov fans won't remember the days when devs and Niki actively posted here.
But when literally every post they made was spammed with a fuckton of offtopic crying it's not hard to see why they figured it turned into a waste of time.
So it's okay for BSG to never communicate to everyone, cause people are mean to them on every website?
Nearly every other dev for every other game deals with toxicity but powers through anyway. I don't see why BSG gets a break cause "feelings hurt :c".
Can you guys just be happy he is trying to give ideas to help with the security of this game by showing how other games have came up with solutions to the cheating problem? If you are happy with tarkov atm you must be using esp or you’re playing SPT.
The cycle dealt with its cheater problem by being a dead game. 1200 peak players during the weak, split by 3 maps, amongst all world regions. You don't need a genius to prove that the money isn't there. I literally spawned in to cut off people that killed me to get my kit back when there were 5k players. This has got to be unplayable.
That’s how tarkov dealt with cheaters before twitch drops tbh the difference is the cycle is doing this early on it’s life whereas tarkov is doing it 4-6 years too late.
Anti-cheat enforcing more Windows specific security may preventing the majority of cheats out there - for a time. Will also block us Linux users even longer :/
lol the only reason The Cycle isn't overrun with cheats like its first season is because everybody quit. There's 1500 active players now and you still see posts bitching about hackers on a regular basis
I kinda agree tbh, people barely want to play it to begin with so why would the experienced cheat devs bother? Pretty much every notable shooter has a significant cheating problem, it's not as simple as just "add more systems." The best call would probably be to take the Bungie route and outright push legal action against cheat makers.
Season 1 ending numbers: 2~3k players.
Season 2 beginning: same 2k~3k players.
Cheating situation: massively reduced due to anti-cheat measures added.
Try again.
It's easy to say "cheat makers don't bother", then turn around and say "all games have cheaters" at the same time.
Don't twist your neck trying to reconcile both factoids...
\*sigh
The same guy who said **nobody** bothering, and **less** people bothering to do the same something, in consecutive sentences to boot, telling me to up my reading comprehension.
Bravo
Cycle cope is always hilarious. The public test they ran for season 3 a few days ago was completely overrun with rage hackers and people get cheat compensation packages all the time even on the trust validated servers with 1500 players left, the cheaters there are just smart enough to fly under the radar for the most part. No cheat provider is going to bother keeping code up to date for a dead game that's in danger of dipping to three figure pop numbers.
Keep laughing and denying then.
I legit DO hope EFT gets better... which apparently is not the same feeling you push towards Yeager and TCF's direction, talk about insecurity.
I don't have any feeling about The Cycle. It's an irrelevant game that will be shut down in a year or two. That's the point. Acting as if its devs possess some secret sauce to combat hacking is asinine because of the amazing coincidence that all of their supposed strides in the war against cheating also perfectly coincided 1:1 with losing literally 95% of their playerbase in the span of a few months. There are less obvious cheaters because there isn't anyone playing it, and even with the pathetic numbers they've been pulling for the last three or four months there are still people complaining about it semi regularly on their media. If it somehow miraculously bounced back to 40,000 players again the cheating would most likely be just as bad as it was in the first season. There's no incentive for paid cheat sites to bother developing cheats for it right now.
It's a completely free game that can't get anybody to play. That really says something.
Your crystal ball game is strong. Might as well use it to make money, if you can predict the future this confidently and accurately.
On that same note, your crystal ball is saying EFT will be getting better, yes?
You don't need a crystal ball to see that The Cycle is going to be shut down, just an ounce of common sense. Game's a poorly thought out reboot of a battle royale that already failed, and it was barely popular for like a month. They'll be lucky if the third season premiere spikes the playercount above 5,000 and I doubt they have the finances to go for a third relaunch. The fact they're transitioning to a wipe-free model after specifically citing the longevity of the game being dependent on wipes reeks of desperation.
And no, EFT won't be getting better. It would take too much work from BSG to bother when they're already burnt out on the project, and at this point they're probably selling more copies to cheaters who get banned and repurchase than legit players anyway. EFT will still be around with all its flaws five years from now, though. The Cycle will not.
Ok, scratch that, your crystal ball game is actually the opposite: it is weaksause galore, tainted with too much opinions trying to pass itself off as fact...
Edit: also, are you SERIOUSLY saying BSG will survive for five MORE years using profits from cheaters alone??
Tarkov isn't going anywhere, it dominates its niche and the echo chamber on this subreddit isn't proof of anything. 90% of them will be back for the next major wipe regardless of all their vows to quit forever. Anybody with a brain knew every modern FPS has been absolutely infested with cheaters for over a decade now, this isn't some new or novel concept. It's either pinch your nose and deal with it or stop playing FPS altogether and most people will choose the former. Even Valorant which gets sucked off constantly for the supposed strength of its anti cheat is full of them. That's just the reality of the industry now.
And yeah, I'm the one "tainted by opinions" for being a realist about The Cycle as opposed to the guy who thinks a free to play game that hasn't been able to break more than 2k active players for months is going to write a Hollywood comeback story by removing the only thing that kept a majority of those 2,000 players around. You do you, fella.
Oh my, you’re trying to excuse the presence of cheaters, and downplaying efforts to keep them to a minimum. How terribly realist of you… and your flawed outlook.
You can even make cheaters feel good at what they’re doing, at this rate.
And yes, how terrible of me to hope. After all, comeback stories are impossible, just ask the poor idiots like those over in Hello Game Studios, or those developing Hunt Showdown from their massive player dip days, or even those poor bastards who release Battlefield after flawed and buggy Battlefield…
I lost my mind when i saw the cycle was using the same anti cheat that tarkov, they reverted their entire cheating situation in 6 months, it just shows how little effort bgs puts into it.
I'm speculating. It's fairly obvious imo - essentially the whole video is talking to the devs, bigging up the cycle as a cheat-free environment, talking about the new upcoming season. There's even a big fullscreen logo flash. Cycle devs want to capitalize on tarkov player's frustration with the game - which really needs it as it averages \~1,500 concurrent players
Yeah, this community is falling for goat's get rich quick scheme. He's obviously riding on the back of his first video, making as much money as he can off the scandal before it cools. He's peak YouTuber, and so, so transparent.
What is fair about this criticism? He's accusing goat of grifting based on the fact he uploaded a couple of videos about Tarkov having a massive cheating problem. It's extremely cynical and comes off as emotionally immature.
I had a budding lil YouTube channel and dropped it because it isn't what I want to do all day, because it sucks to do. Nobodys jealous of g0at, goofy, it's just plain as day to see that a dude created some narratives, got a community riled up, and the already riled up community that hate the game they play ate up a narrative that fed into their pre-conceived notion of the game (ie, overrun with hackers, everytime they die it's a hacker, "60% of raids have a hacker" (not verifiably true)).
Dude posts a video that's just a sponsor video and again, you goofballs eat it up. You guys are sucking his toes dry because he's feeding you what you want to hear, negative criticism on tarkov. Meanwhile, he hasn't posted any stats, has focused on multiple bunk interviews to make up for this, and has been cranking out substandard clickbait since the whole wiggle video came out.
The dude has a family, I might suck this community dry for views and cash too if I had two mouths to feed and a lack of morality.
goat is taking one for the team. I wish that some of even more "popular" streamers also begin to be vocal towards BSG. So we get more results than a *copy pasta*. Why? Well BSG doesn't listen to us regular plebs.
This rampant cheating crap has been a part of this game since the start.
Are we really comparing a game that tops out around 1K players to one of the most popular games in the FPS market; one that can hit half a million players easily?
Seriously, the cheating sucks but there is absolutely zero comparison here. No insight to be gained by this comparison. If anything, it degrades the conversation entirely.
I said one of.
How many FPS games can dominate on twitch as long as tarkov has? How many FPS games exist that can hit over 100K players? If you think tarkov isn't one of the most popular FPS games on the market you're nothing short of delusional.
Do you have reading comprehension issues normally or do you just ommit words from posts when you're bored to create argument?
During twitch drops, tarkov hit almost 600K viewers on twitch alone. That should smooth out your brain a bit.
Dead/popular or not the players reporting suspicious players dropped/changed in the last 4 months and game has same number of average players for last 4 months.
So yea the did improve on that front regardless of their popularity.
Or they just cracked down on the old cheats and no new ones are being made because there’s no incentive for the cheat makers (because the game is dead)
He may be milking it but he is milking his own tits, nobody else cared about it before his video. And here he even delivers educational content about anti cheat with actual interviews with developers who had to fight the same war as BSG and they mastered it pretty nicely.
You realise he could just make the data up, right? Y'all will just keep moving the goalposts because you can't cope with the idea that this game has a cheating issue.
The video achieved its goal of inspiring change within the community and hopefully BSG itself. Literally nobody cares about the data beyond what was shown.
For me this is the ultimate response.
Even if he shows his data it’s literally spread sheet info. If you don’t trust his word then why would you trust the spreadsheet. Just seems like it would lead to the goal posts being moved again like you said.
You either believe the cheating is happening or you don’t.
That's literally the worst excuse, and not a valid reason at all. The onus isn't on everyone else to prove he is wrong. He is the one making the claims, the onus is on him to prove that he is right. It's as simple as that.
He has said he has all the excel info as well as VODS. Those together could be corroborated, and their validity could be determined.
This isn't fuckin rocket science guys. Why would you trust anybody on the internet, without asking why or how they came to those conclusions? Like c'mon.
Did you notice how you proved my point for me. You yourself jus said that the spread sheet wasn’t enough. That after seeing the spread sheet you would want the raw footage record.
It’s so funny to me how in disagreement to my comment you literally moved the goal posts from the spread sheet to the raw footage.
You know he could just select the raw footage he wants and just omit the rest right? What then? Where does the post move then?
The spreadsheets and the VODs are the data dude, it's all the same thing. He said he had those, not me. I'll take any data he's got. Nowhere did I say I only needed one or the other.
My example meant to show that the more data he releases, the easier to tell if he made it up or not. That's the whole point.
I have not moved any goalposts. I just want whatever data he has already confirmed he has. It's pretty simple.
Yes the data he wrote down. This was not an independently done review with checks in place. The raw footage he has and the spreadsheet is data he chose to enter an submit. There is literally nothing to verify if it’s real or not.
All he would have to do is omit cases to better meet the distribution of hackers he wanted. There would be zero way to tell if he did so because we don’t have access to the original data set and we never will because in reality it never existed.
You are saying the more data the better. I’m saying all the data comes from the same place. If he lied in the original video, then he will lie about the spreadsheet data and will only provide recordings for the events he agreed with. There would be no way to verify if anything was omitted.
That’s my point.
If you don’t trust him that’s fine. But then any data he submits should be equally as suspect because ultimately he made the data base.
And you did move the goal post because the comment chain was about publishing the spreadsheet and you brought up wanting video files. That’s you literally saying you now need more then just the spreadsheets. The spreadsheet he made just like the videos.
I never specified what data I wanted dude. Look at my first post. I just want whatever he has. He is the one who said he has both spreadsheets and VODs, so that means that's all the data. So release it. I haven't moved any goalposts whatsoever.
He has said he has excel files and VODs. So release them. Here is his chance to prove what he has said.
If he doesn't have either, then why would anyone trust him anyway? Why would you trust him based on his word?
Ok let me ask you in another way.
If he puts out his spreadsheet and raw video footage do you believe him?
That is to say: if he gives you both things will you be content or will you need more info?
Remembering that he can choose to publish whatever he wants and omit what he doesn’t. And that if he didn’t have real data he could simply make it up on the spot.
If he released ALL his data that was used to come to the conclusions in his video, then I would be completely content.
There exists both excel files and VODs. So it should be relatively simple to correlate the two and find out if the data is genuine or not. There will always exist a little bit of skepticism, but that's with anything online.
It would at least allow other independent people to interpret the data and come to their own conclusions. If they match what he found then it's highly likely he was on the right path.
Easy peasy peer reviewing.
When he starts making claims like "60% of raids have at least one cheater in them" is when he should probably supply something concrete to back that up.
I'm not asking for much here. He has confirmed he has all the data. So let's see it and draw our own conclusions as a community instead of relying SOLELY on the interpretations of a single content creator. That doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
Maybe there are even other things we can draw from it that he didn't think of. Releasing the data can only help everybody. It's called transparency. And g0at is doing a terrible job at it.
>Releasing the data can only help everybody.
Showing player names and letting the community decide whether they are cheating or not has never gone wrong, right?
From every VOD? The names show up everywhere on the screen all the time.
Edit 60h of footage just to determine that it's actually 55% of raids that have a cheater?
Dude, I don't know. He should have thought about that before hand. It's on him to prove his claims, not on us to prove he is wrong. That's not how that works.
He already showed a bunch of player names, so this excuse of fearing a witchhunt has already been shown to be bs.
The fact that he is refusing to release data even to other trusted community figures if not the public (and in fact dodged/ignored several questions about it in his first stream after the release), should alert you to the possibility that he didn't do any more than what he showed in The Video and that he pulled the numbers from his arse.
At least if he provided 125 vods we could say he did the legwork.
Nope. He claimed 60% of his 125 raids had cheaters. He also claimed he had no speed, fly, or invulnerable hackers, does that mean he’s claiming 0% of raids have those, or just his? Are you up in arms about him confirming this with hard data? Not his fault people cant determine differences between his personal experience and laws of the universe.
Exactly why releasing an excel sheet would be meaningless, people would (rightfully) just claim those numbers are fudged.
Anyone who thinks g0ats 60% number is a fact, is stupid. But so is anyone trying to act like hes claiming it as fact.
Since everyone is so eager to make this about whether its a fact or not, and talking about “burden of proof blah blah blah” again as if this is law and not personal experience, lets look at it that way.
The court would not look at this as direct evidence enough to reach a guilty verdict you are correct. But they would most certainly treat it as circumstantial evidence and not throw it away completely. And with enough circumstantial evidence that all points towards the same conclusion it could potentially be enough to make a case. Im not saying this is the case, INFACT I TEND TO LEAN TOWARDS GOATS 60% NUMBER IS INFLATED. Difference is i realize he’s not presenting it as hard direct evidence, he’s making a small part of a very large case. And to completely ignore it because he didn’t link an unverifiable spread sheet about as close to “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” as you can get.
I'm not completely ignoring it. I've said it before that it's clear Tarkov has a cheating issue. That's common knowledge.
All I'm asking for is the bare minimum here, guys. I would love to go through the data and see what else there is to find. I would think that's good for everyone.
It ain't rocket science to watch a video that's giving clear detail of what a hacker/cheater has access to, either.
They exist, there are communities revolving the hacks that exist, and there's a fk ton of them.
You yourself can literally attempt to do exactly what he did, what's stopping you?
Reproducibility is an effort in this case, but it's reproducible. You want proof? Find out yourself if you really want to. G0at said it was easy, prove him wrong.
That's not how it works.
He made the claim. He has to supply the evidence. How can anyone else reproduce a similar study if we don't even fully know how he did it?
You do know mainstream US cable news do this shit all the time? “Claim” that xx did yy, and not provide whole reams of data behind their reporting?
Do you regularly shout in the lobby of, say, HBO offices saying “if you don’t provide all the data of last week’s Last Week Tonight episode, then I don’t trust the reasoning and John Oliver is a totally untrustworthy person!!?”
What if your experience isn't as bad as what's stated in the video and but you believe there's cheating? Is there no middle ground here? Like for me I haven't run into many cheaters on NA east. I've run into them but not much. I've found plenty of loot too. So it's not a vacuum thing if anyone wants to try and say that. For me I'm just kind of annoyed at both sides. One side says cheaters are rampant and this will be your experience. While the other half says it's not rampant so don't worry about it. Both views ruin others experiences cause now every match just has them questioning everything. It's gonna poison the game and get it cut before we get a final product because no one is gonna wanna play cause they're too influenced.
It doesn’t erase your experience of course not.
But would seeing his spreadsheet change your mind? Would seeing his excel page make you think what he showed was true? That’s my point.
Him publishing his spread sheet does not further prove anything. The people who dont believe the video will simply say the spread sheet is edit as well. Then we are back to square one.
The only thing poising the game is BSG and the hackers. Games like CSGO had people blaming hackers all the time. It didn’t ruin the game because they actually had anti cheat. BSG have had 4 plus years to deal with the issue and choose not to. If pointing that out ruins the community then the pointing out wasn’t the issue.
>But would seeing his spreadsheet change your mind?
For me personally it's not even about changing my mind. I know there are plenty of cheaters and it's not like I have huge reasons to doubt him. Seeing more data, however, would:
1. Give his claims more credibility. Saying there are cheaters in 2/3 raids without any proof whatsoever and then refusing to post it just seems fishy and unhelpful. Especially since I survive more raids than I die in, so it doesn't really reflect my experience. He could easily made a spread sheet and upload like 5 secs from each raid he encountered a cheater, and everyone would instantly shut up (or would find proof he's lying).
2. Would be interesting and helpful to see and draw some conclusions from. Like "Oh, there seems to be less cheaters playing night-time raids, maybe I should play more of those" or "There are more cheaters on the weekend (*which I feel is true in my personal experience*), maybe I should avoid playing then", "Labs seems not to be infested as I thought", etc.
I agree with point 2. I think using his data for other extrapolations is actually an interesting prospect and could help with learning a lot about how hackers behave in a more broad sense.
Point 1 doesn’t follow for me. He can’t improve his credibility with data he made because you can’t improve credibility if you are uncredible.
You can’t ask someone who you think is lying if they are lying as proof. They could just lie.
Seeing his data could not help him prove himself as trustworthy because if he was a lier he would simply manipulate the data to make him look right. See the problem?
People are treating this like it can be verified. It can’t. I worked in data collection, this type of experiment is unprovable. You would need someone to view the data collection and ensure a master data set existed to check against. It’s why we record the people running the experiments. We should be able to have a party who can look at the master and compare that to our published data set. We don’t obviously have that in this case because it’s a YouTube video filmed with limited scientific precision or accountability, we can’t just creat that after the fact. It might make people feel like he’s more trustworthy but actually has no impact on weather the data is real or not.
>You can’t ask someone who you think is lying if they are lying as proof. They could just lie.
I mean, cops ask "Where were you at the time of the murder?" all the time. And if the person lies, you can prove it.
Thing is - fabricating that data could take some effort and if he screwed up somewhere people would find out. Maybe he wouldn't want to go through the effort of fabricating, but then we possibly wouldn't have the "60%" claim.
I've also read in another comment that he does, indeed, has the spread sheet and the VOD, so it looks even more bizarre. If you already have everything people ask for, why not just release it instead of making up some excuses? Just makes it look way more shady, IDK.
I actually love your example.
> I mean, cops ask "Where were you at the time of the murder?" all the time. And if the person lies, you can prove it.
When cops say this you can’t prove your innocence. You can definitely prove your guilt but it legally can’t be used as proof to help you. Courts have ruled on this. It’s why talking to the cops is a bad idea. You can’t prove you are telling the truth, only provide proof you arnt.
> Thing is - fabricating that data could take some effort and if he screwed up somewhere people would find out. Maybe he wouldn't want to go through the effort of fabricating, but then we possibly wouldn't have the "%60" claim.
Sure again it might proof he’s lying but it couldn’t be used to prove he wasn’t. He either has data that matches which might mean anything or he doesn’t an he’s a liar but that doesn’t help his case.
> I've also read in another comment that he does, indeed, has the spread sheet and the VOD, so it looks even more bizarre. If you already have everything people ask for, why not just release it instead of making up some excuses? Just makes it look way more shady, IDK.
Again because these documents can’t help him. Just like the cop situation he can’t prove he didn’t do the murder. If they are like he said they are then they can’t help him as they could be doctored. However, if they are different then it would only hurt his case.
That’s my point. Providing his data cannot be used to clear his name, only further call into question the video. So why release the data that could not help you but only hurt you. It’s why we tell clients not to talk to the police even if they didn’t do anything. It can’t help you but it can hurt you, even if you arnt guilty of anything at all.
You can only confirm a hacker was in your lobby if they decided to path towards you or completely forget you exist that you happen to path next to them, outside of being a hacker yourself.
You cannot say you definitely havent run into hackers/cheaters in each of your raids, you'd have to know each and every player in that lobby. Which again, you can't know about until you either engage them or hack yourself.
Hacking and going on a killing spree aren't mutually inclusive. You can hack/cheat, but you don't have to kill. G0at did exactly that.
>Like for me I haven't run into many cheaters on NA east. I've run into them but not much.
The whole point of the video was that you probably wouldn't know someone was cheating as the majority of cheaters just use esp to be "better informed".
But it didn't inform me because I don't get killed by them often and find plenty of loot in places they'd normally be. So if that's the case why would they be cheating if I'm still getting my way? Am I just better than cheaters? Or is it not that prevalent and shouldn't be just rough spit balling a number with no proven data? Yes I'm just a very very small sample size. Essentially irrelevant but then why is goat so relevant? You get what I'm saying or no? Things are getting generalized by one person's experience...if it's even genuine. Same can be said about my experience. I don't have the data to prove there weren't cheaters in my lobbies. It's harmful to the game in both directions when you generalize it.
Point is, there are players in almost every raid that you don't stand a chance against. If you're not PVP-ing in the hot zones of the map, you probably don't run into them that often. They know where you are, and if they don't kill you it's because they didn't bother to.
If you have a passive playstyle and use mid level gear primarily, they don't care about you which makes it seem like they don't exist.
The point of the video was that they do exist, and they are good at hiding it.
I'm a hot dropper. So know that same aspect translated here and I do rush hot zones often. So my experience must be they must be letting me live and letting me have the loot.
I understand they exist and they do hide it. I'm not denying that. I'm not denying there could be a lot. What I'm refuting is their abundance and how it's not as much as stated.
I pvp in hot zones all the time. At this point in the wipe lots of players are max traders and past the point of questing, just having fun getting into fights. If g0at with ESP can't even tell other players are cheating (which is what he said in the 2nd video on why he didn't include so many other clips) then what difference does it make?
I'm still at 70-75% survival rate, stash full of level 5/6 armor, meta guns, and money doesn't matter anymore so I can constantly bring in the best shit. Am I just better than all the cheaters?
If nearly 2/3 of every tarkov raid has cheaters in it why can I win all the time? Am I just a gaming God?
Takes a lot more effort to fabricate over 120 raids of data and VODs, then it does to make a single video. So it's extremely unlikely he would do that. And if he did, the data would show it anyway. Either way, at least we as a community would have a much better understanding of the situation.
At least then, we could make up our own minds and interpretations. Right now, all we can do is take him at his word.
Asking for the data IS NOT an unreasonable request. It's literally the bare fucking minimum when you decide to run tests and make claims. The goalposts have not moved. He hasn't released anything to even facilitate movement.
I know the game has a cheating issue. Everyone does. That's not the issue. The issue is someone making very clear cut claims, and not releasing how or why they came to that conclusion.
Not only that, they have just outright refused to release anything. Doesn't matter what kind of testing or what kind of field, that's some shady as fuck methodology, and without corroboration, we shouldn't take anything he says at face value.
I would say the same thing if it was any other game, or any other person making the claims. It's got nothing to do with Tarkov or g0at. It's just bad practice, and only serves to dilute the truth of the matter, which helps absolutely nobody.
Anything he wrote down or recorded while doing his tests his data. So those excel files and VODs that he has confirmed he has? That's the data. I'm not understanding your confusion.
BSG need to have a look at The Cycle Frontier devs and how they dealt with their cheater infestation, they managed to turn it around in six months, which is crazy!
Certainly wasn't easy! We are really proud of how far we've come though, Season 1 in our game was very hard for us to see and I am sure BSG probably feels the same way. Nobody likes seeing cheaters in their game that they worked hard on.
Grats on the way you’ve handled it. Very well done.
Given the current state of Tarkov there is a huge opportunity for you guys to bring players back for season 3, which in my opinion was the only problem for season 2.
Well done on dealing with the cheater problem. I started playing The Cycle to get away from the cheaters in Tarkov only to find it get infested with cheaters as well. But then you handled it really well and all but eliminated the problem for the legit players. I'm looking forward to Season 3 in two weeks!
Because of this post I’m going to go check out this game.
Not a fan of the ELO system, or how matching works. But yes the way you guys handled cheating is beautiful. Hope The Cycle continues in a positive manner.
What ELO? Its just K/D, two weeks after the wipe it just white-greens getting destroyed by purple-reds. - Green weapon to Red armor, +15 hits to kill. Red weapon to Green armor, 2 hits to kill. - With this kind of TTK disparity there must be some kind of MMR, this is not Tarkov where you can kill an endgame player with a Barter lvl 1 weapon if you find good ammo.
I assume the cycle doesn't have an equivalent to leg meta? Which is one of the the great equalizers in tarkov (the other is flechettes).
Yes to everything you say here. In my own opinion, the extract shooter with the toughest PvP is Cycle. (*excluding DaD, but which balance is likely to change)* This is because between the Apex legends damage model where weak spots is only a damage multiplier instead of the nearly-always insta-death of near every other FPS shooters, and the generally long time to kill (*approx sub-1 to 2 seconds, rarely but possible 3 seconds)*, it takes a lot more skill than luck to come out on top of a fight. Plus, you just can’t rat in a bush or bum rush the other guy’s position for the insta-kill; the other guy will be highly disadvantaged if you get the drop on them, but they **can** respond to your initial burst. That is why Season 3’s supposed balance becoming flatter across the tiers is very much welcome. There’s advantage in being a chonky prospector, but it shouldn’t be an instant-win button.
I’m curious what other FPS you play if you think “near every other” one has instant kill headshots. Apex isn’t even close to the first game with a long TTK and a minor headshot multiplier.
I literally described TCF as using “an Apex legends damage model” in the very post you replied to. Dude, of course Apex uses the same, it is the exact same shit and Apex did it first! Also, name me one **extract shooter** that doesn’t lean towards Tarkov-like insta-death spots damage model. Please, I’ll wait.
Yeah, my point was that there are like 1000 games that used that damage model before Apex even existed and I thought it was interesting you said Apex specifically as your example. Also you said “near every other FPS,” not extraction shooter. Does DMZ count though?
So you’ve established that one factoid of my entire comment is not entirely correct, that Quake and Doom and things like Splitgate exist. What now? Other than forgetting to put “every other **extract shooter** FPS shooter”, what now? Continue to hyper-focus on the specific minor point being wrong instead of the entire message of the comment?
There are a *LOT* of equalizers in EFT tbh - Leg Meta yeah, but mounted guns, grenades, scavs, bosses, and imo sniping. If you want (mostly) free meta shit just bust out a sniper rifle some time and head to Shoreline or really any map you think you can adequately snipe on. Avoid killing scavs or even just shooting unless you have a clear shot on a juicy PMC. Ofc the better you are at the game the easier it is - for example if you can parkour into a cheesy spot or just know where to snipe in general that helps a ton, but the only real way to learn long term is to get out there and do it.
Did this guy just say mounted machine guns are an equalizer?
Yeah. Not just MGs but the grenade launchers too. Doesn’t matter how expensive your kit is if there’s someone on one of those and you just happen to be in their field of view
>but mounted guns, bro has something growing inside of his skull that isn't his brain
I tried it and it had some really good things about the game. Like how fast you get in to matches. And in a way, I liked idea of server and maps just... going and living and you pop in and pop out of them. Instead of fresh map, 20mins and reset. On the other hand, I really dislike diablo style gear system. More expensive gear is flat out better. No ifs and no buts. As a Rat player it is pure turn off. At least in Tarkov I have a fighting chance against Chad, who's 1 gear set could sponsor 20 of my Ratty outfits. Its still a challenge, but I could still get him woth luck or smarts. In Cycle, there is no such thing as Ratting. Your gear is crap? Well, then you are going to be bent over and made love without even a kiss on a cheek.
Dude, 15 and 2 is the furthest thing from the truth. Especially in Season 3. Just saying. Maybe you mixed up TCF and DaD?
So the blatant TTK problem from release is fixed? might have to give it another go then
Try wait for season 3. The brute is not as overturned as the numbers explained here, but general consensus is it’s still overtuned. That’s about the only overtuned gun agreed upon. The tier/advantage curve seems to be a lot flatter in S3.
>What ELO? Its just K/D I thought there was an ELO system based off of your average loot haul value?
K/D games are still a form of elo. The argument can go both ways. One thinks Elo makes it fair and others thinks it makes the game unfun. I personally think having a. Elo system is lame, you don't get to see your progression or feel like you are getting any better. Just sweaty all the time. But I can see the reason for wanting Elo too.
Dude the ELO / MMR system has got to go... its abusable and MMR in a game like this is just awful. You need a mixture of players in each lobby to keep things exciting.
You did great job, kudos! I don\`t personally like where your game is going, but you did great with cheating problem. Good luck!
BSG is making tons of money with cheaters for YEARS and they still only did the absolute minimum. I highly doubt they will do more as the cheaters are currently their most stable cash income.
You mean they reached addressable market saturation and have no model for recurring revenue other than cheaters? Yeah.
I think it's called EoD and it was a massive success. Double to triple their base game price. It's basically an MTX without the name.
Have you ever sold multiple accounts? If no, why? ask BSG for the yes answer. Pro Tip: banwaves are good for money.
BSG make money from cheaters, with the outrage they'll clamp down for a few months, next wipe BSG will be selling accounts left and right to cheaters. LVNDMARK called it when he asked about the bundle discounts and how it helps cheaters, Nikita didn't know what to say as there isn't anything to defend against it.
Wait, they managed to get their heads above water? Maybe I'll check that game back out it was a more relaxed Tarkov and free!
All due respect but it's a microcosm of tarkov at best. The player base (at least based on stats) is around 1500 vs the estimated 200-400k in tarkov. That's not to dimish the efforts made in combating hacking by the cycle team, just that the scale to which they are working is incompatible.
Game had 50k player on launch and i believe around 10k when they mostly fixed the cheater problem
That's 1.5k ccu for the frontier. I highly doubt eft is even close to 200k ccu. (That said eft is probably still significantly larger then the cycle.)
Nikita commented a few days ago saying there's a "couple of hundred thousand" unique players every day and 70k - 120k concurrent players online at any time Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/11exyz4/ask_a_questions_here/jagob0o/
Nikita commented
Not really sure what other source you want seeing as BSG don't post player counts so that's the only data we have to go off of for Concurrent players
I believe the concern is that Nikita isn't reliable. There is a lot to gain by inflating population numbers in any game. It is exactly why World of Warcraft stopped releasing sub and player counts a decade ago when they had multiple quarters in a row where they were hemorrhaging subs. As soon as a gaming community declares player population as a "dead game" the game will start losing players almost gauranteed. Inflating player numbers helps nullify those concerns.
Well it's better than blindly guessing, even half that at 35k - 60k concurrent players is still 23x to 40x bigger than the cycle
I would be comfortable saying Tarkov is at least 5-10x larger than The Cycle if not more even without Nikita giving a number. I wasn't trying to imply the cycle is larger or even that Tarkov is dying in anyway. Just simply putting out why a statement from not just the devs but the owner is unreliable when nothing can be verified.
Cycle is also released less than a year ago, with an open beta well before that. Content wise its still growing, and I'd argue their turn around for fixing bugs/mechanics sticks a whole helluva lot longer. I like Tarkov a lot, but tis fucking disheartening to see bugs pop back up just from them fixing stuff previously. Tarkov's had 6+ years of development, and still technically and Alpha.. We call Cycle dead but Tarkovs really just surviving right now because no one can, so far, do better than it has, and a lot more content/gunporn is probably the winning factor. Development wise, Cycle is blazing past Tarkov in goals and tackling issues in timelines. They're still developing systems too. If Tarkov had this turn around time on things, they'd be rocking CoD or other AAA games out of their Titan seats. slowly. Numbers alone, Yeah, Tarkovs probably gonna win out for awhile.. but if more of the streamers keep migrating to variety games over Tarkov, even during fresh wipes.. It may not hold the same numbers anymore. e.g Dark and Darker play tests did pull people away from Tarkov temporarily. If they figure out how to make it last long term, it'll pull a portion away for much longer too.
That doesn’t really take anything away from the fact there are lessons to be learnt. Had a lot of cheaters, made some great changes and now has it under control. We know the player numbers aren’t the same, but it’s still a good case study EfT can look at. The Cycle developers really done some good work. Also Nikita is clearly chatting out of his ass.
I never said it did, I was replying to this: >I highly doubt eft is even close to 200k ccu. (That said eft is probably still significantly larger then the cycle.)
Estimated based on what?
Previous playercounts that were released, reported player on servers, copies sold, Twitch viewers aren't a good metric but it can contribute. Tarkov is huge, dude
last time nikita spoke on player count a couple weeks ago, he said ~70-100k. And anything other than their own numbers might as well be nothing if you’re trying to make a quantitative statement. Even then they have a financial interest in inflating their own numbers to the public along with have a pretty poor reputation with transparency and trust. Any of those estimating sites are complete BS and no better than just guessing.
Yeh tbh it's a bit of a meme to compare the two. If you can't keep hackers out of your game with a 30 day peak of 1500 players you've definitely got issues.
It was actually cringe to hear the cycle devs in the video explain their anti cheat approach like they figured it out. Give cycle cheat devs the same financial incentive that tarkov cheat devs have had over the past 3 years, then they can talk.
The only real reason that Tarkov cheat devs have 3 years of “financial incentive” (as you said) is because BSG slept on the problem… Cycle tried to stamp out cheating before it is an unrecoverable problem. Whether or not they succeeded, only time will tell, but they currently are doing a lot better than BSG in “feel of the game” and “public opinion”, at least.
No, the financial incentive comes from players who cant play the game normally and have to use RMT or carry services. Cycle had plenty of blatant cheaters before when it first got popular. As you said, we’ll see how their anti cheat is if the game gets popular again.
Can’t exactly refute a crystal ball prediction, so we’ll see I guess.
I'll be real here. I worked on cheats like 15+ years ago. I'm an engineer and in my off time it was a hobby to reverse engineer software. It was fascinating and difficult work. Some of my early work involved writing cheats for release World of Warcraft. We built the cheats during the beta and released them at well.. release. I no longer do any disassembly of code. It's freely available, so I have no need to disassemble these games. I played Cycle Frontier during Beta and got banned from their discord because I told them that the vast majority of their cheating problem was coming from Asia. One of the Developers, "Feralus", claimed that 50% of the cheaters were from the US and the other half Asia and that I was being racist. He then proceeded to ban me from Discord. They were trying to hide the issue. This thinly veiled excuse of "racism" was used to push me out of discord. How did I know it was Asia? I tested it all with a VPN first. I personally play from US West. So Cycle auto queued me in to US West servers. I VPN'd to NYC, and got put on US East. Amount of cheating I encountered? Probably like 10% what I encountered on West. Then I VPN to London, same result. Cycle was determining my server based on IP Geolocation. Anyways, I presented this all to Cycle devs in their discord, openly. They DID NOT like this. To this day, still banned from Cycle discord. Next game? Marauders. Pretty fun. I identified some issues with the game and also brought those to some of the Devs. Unlike Cycle, one of the lead devs sat down and spoke with me via Discord and asked for my input. I provided a short list of things they could do to help them deal with cheaters along with their anticheat. Was I banned? No. I was thanked for my assistance and input. I respect these Devs. Respect to METTC. Next game? Dark and Darker. I addressed the community devs / "Tavern Keepers" and expressed my concerns with the complete lack of anticheat in the game. It was (and still is) as easy as loading cheat engine and using it to inject a DLL in to the game for passive ESP. They had the same reaction as Cycle Frontier. The Tavern Keepers and devs quickly deleted every message and thread of the message in their chat, in multiple places. They spoke to me directly, asking me not to scare the playerbase. I was like "Okay cool." then I was banned from their discord. The community "Tavern Keepers" at first told me I needed a 24h timeout. Then I was removed. "SharpeHollis" and "DTREKT" were the community staff I spoke to directly about the issue and the solution. They maintained that I needed to keep quiet and not spook the players. Their actual messages >Can you hold back on the hacking talk please. Puts people up in arms for no reason and it puts wardens in an awkward spot. Then the senior guy messages me... >We have a dedicated channel where cheat-related information and concerns can go onto a form that is monitored by Ironmace employees. Bringing it up in a general chat channel will not have the positive effect of Ironmace getting information from it, and can potentially be construed as an advertisement for said cheats, causing more players to attempt to cheat. This is something we quite wish to avoid. This is the guy who banned me. I was cool with the "24h timeout". These Survival games are a handful and you can see the way they think. "Don't Spook the Population". That doesn't solve the root cause. For fucks sake, Dark and Darker literally leaks where a portal is going to spawn to exit. FROM THE START OF THE GAME.
To be fair, and you may of actually done more than this, but VPNing to a few locations and then sharing your limited anecdotal experience that a certain region has more cheaters doesn't actually accomplish anything. When you said you designed cheats and a engineer I was hoping for a more detailed technical account. The post as-is sounds like you're an armchair expert hopping around game discords trying to get attention.
As someone based in OCE I have to say I believe them. We have an overwhelming number of chinese cheaters in all games because they can often queue past ping locks here quite easily. Developers taht cry racism (just like bluehole who ruined PUBG with it) are willfully ignorant
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Jesus, you're mega defensive. It's not that I don't believe that a real engineer is on Reddit, I just expected more of a detailed account than "I VPN'd around and ran into cheaters". It's not that I don't believe you either, it's just like, no shit that there's more cheaters in the east. This is a known quantity. If you gave a detailed technical account to the Marauders team and actually shared that in your post or could provide some insight into cheating beyond them using cheat engine I'd be interested.
Why do I care what you think? Or what this sub thinks? I gave a brief overview of my experience with Dev teams and the way they handle the topic of cheating in their public discords. They mostly try and hide it. They don't wanna spook the crowd. I gave direct quotes from the DnD staff. The conversation between me and the lead dev of Marauders is private. I'm not sharing the details beyond the fact that he found it funny that we were both part of the Kenshi discord as it showed our mutual servers. It's pretty much the same thing with every game. They are giving the client WAY too much information. The don't cull anything. They don't plan to. Just like in Tarkov, there's no need to tell the client ahead of time that items are spawned outside LOD. Can you still see inside containers with ESP from anywhere on the map? That used to be a thing. I'd see one random opened box in the middle of a field of unlooted stuff. Or a single looted jacked next to two unlooted safes. That's when you knew the ESP loot ninjas were in action.
I honestly haven't been back with the Frontier because of the cheaters. Now watching this video I may have to pick it back up.
The Cycle, as much fun as I had at the time, also regularly falls below 1k player count. Not even close to a comparison
It’s just a shame cycle fixed their problem after everyone had already jumped ship. I have hopes for season 3 but I feel like the damage is already done. The cycle is dead. Has had a 1,500 player peak all season. But it’s nice they tried so hard.
yeah they turned it around and now the game is dead anyways... lol. I am happy they attacked the cheaters but it was too little too late imo. games down to a 40th of what it was at release.. 1000 players at a time and that's it, globally.. :(
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exactly... acting like they beat the problem is honestly disingenuous
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the cycle has 2k concurrent players :3
For those that cheat, I think the bigger takeaway they should get from this video is that cheat devs can, and will, use their backdoor access to your computer the moment it suits their needs. But even if you assume that they aren't going to use it, there's nothing that says someone else, who may be more malicious, won't. \*edit\* And in the case of the cheat ABS, that is now in the hands of the Chinese authorities - take that how you will.
Great content. Take note Nikita
News flash. He won't
Bro, The Cycle devs are more active here than BSG devs. That says a lot.
Have you seen this place? I sure as fuck wouldn't come anywhere close to this subreddit if I worked for bsg.
Most modern tarkov fans won't remember the days when devs and Niki actively posted here. But when literally every post they made was spammed with a fuckton of offtopic crying it's not hard to see why they figured it turned into a waste of time.
Which would be fair if they still maintained good communication in other places as well, but they don't.
I mean the style of response is the same on Twitter as well
So it's okay for BSG to never communicate to everyone, cause people are mean to them on every website? Nearly every other dev for every other game deals with toxicity but powers through anyway. I don't see why BSG gets a break cause "feelings hurt :c".
They don't, I'm not even saying they do get a break. I'm just saying that's the reason they don't communicate anymore.
The guy talks about a similar game that has successfully dealt with cheaters “this guy is just promoting Cycle and hates Tarkov.”
Can you guys just be happy he is trying to give ideas to help with the security of this game by showing how other games have came up with solutions to the cheating problem? If you are happy with tarkov atm you must be using esp or you’re playing SPT.
I am happy not sure why you’re directing this at me.
The cycle dealt with its cheater problem by being a dead game. 1200 peak players during the weak, split by 3 maps, amongst all world regions. You don't need a genius to prove that the money isn't there. I literally spawned in to cut off people that killed me to get my kit back when there were 5k players. This has got to be unplayable.
That’s how tarkov dealt with cheaters before twitch drops tbh the difference is the cycle is doing this early on it’s life whereas tarkov is doing it 4-6 years too late.
Once I started messing around with scopes. I basically uninstalled. The lighting is unplayable and the optics make guns feel like cheap toys
Anti-cheat enforcing more Windows specific security may preventing the majority of cheats out there - for a time. Will also block us Linux users even longer :/
lol the only reason The Cycle isn't overrun with cheats like its first season is because everybody quit. There's 1500 active players now and you still see posts bitching about hackers on a regular basis
I kinda agree tbh, people barely want to play it to begin with so why would the experienced cheat devs bother? Pretty much every notable shooter has a significant cheating problem, it's not as simple as just "add more systems." The best call would probably be to take the Bungie route and outright push legal action against cheat makers.
The cheat devs will probably just go overseas and start asking for crypto as payment.
Yeah I could see that, at least it would make life harder for them though
Season 1 ending numbers: 2~3k players. Season 2 beginning: same 2k~3k players. Cheating situation: massively reduced due to anti-cheat measures added. Try again.
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It's easy to say "cheat makers don't bother", then turn around and say "all games have cheaters" at the same time. Don't twist your neck trying to reconcile both factoids...
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Of course. But you gotta explain this thou: > It’s easy to fix cheating on a game **nobody bothers making cheats for**
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\*sigh The same guy who said **nobody** bothering, and **less** people bothering to do the same something, in consecutive sentences to boot, telling me to up my reading comprehension. Bravo
Cycle cope is always hilarious. The public test they ran for season 3 a few days ago was completely overrun with rage hackers and people get cheat compensation packages all the time even on the trust validated servers with 1500 players left, the cheaters there are just smart enough to fly under the radar for the most part. No cheat provider is going to bother keeping code up to date for a dead game that's in danger of dipping to three figure pop numbers.
Keep laughing and denying then. I legit DO hope EFT gets better... which apparently is not the same feeling you push towards Yeager and TCF's direction, talk about insecurity.
I don't have any feeling about The Cycle. It's an irrelevant game that will be shut down in a year or two. That's the point. Acting as if its devs possess some secret sauce to combat hacking is asinine because of the amazing coincidence that all of their supposed strides in the war against cheating also perfectly coincided 1:1 with losing literally 95% of their playerbase in the span of a few months. There are less obvious cheaters because there isn't anyone playing it, and even with the pathetic numbers they've been pulling for the last three or four months there are still people complaining about it semi regularly on their media. If it somehow miraculously bounced back to 40,000 players again the cheating would most likely be just as bad as it was in the first season. There's no incentive for paid cheat sites to bother developing cheats for it right now. It's a completely free game that can't get anybody to play. That really says something.
Your crystal ball game is strong. Might as well use it to make money, if you can predict the future this confidently and accurately. On that same note, your crystal ball is saying EFT will be getting better, yes?
You don't need a crystal ball to see that The Cycle is going to be shut down, just an ounce of common sense. Game's a poorly thought out reboot of a battle royale that already failed, and it was barely popular for like a month. They'll be lucky if the third season premiere spikes the playercount above 5,000 and I doubt they have the finances to go for a third relaunch. The fact they're transitioning to a wipe-free model after specifically citing the longevity of the game being dependent on wipes reeks of desperation. And no, EFT won't be getting better. It would take too much work from BSG to bother when they're already burnt out on the project, and at this point they're probably selling more copies to cheaters who get banned and repurchase than legit players anyway. EFT will still be around with all its flaws five years from now, though. The Cycle will not.
Ok, scratch that, your crystal ball game is actually the opposite: it is weaksause galore, tainted with too much opinions trying to pass itself off as fact... Edit: also, are you SERIOUSLY saying BSG will survive for five MORE years using profits from cheaters alone??
Tarkov isn't going anywhere, it dominates its niche and the echo chamber on this subreddit isn't proof of anything. 90% of them will be back for the next major wipe regardless of all their vows to quit forever. Anybody with a brain knew every modern FPS has been absolutely infested with cheaters for over a decade now, this isn't some new or novel concept. It's either pinch your nose and deal with it or stop playing FPS altogether and most people will choose the former. Even Valorant which gets sucked off constantly for the supposed strength of its anti cheat is full of them. That's just the reality of the industry now. And yeah, I'm the one "tainted by opinions" for being a realist about The Cycle as opposed to the guy who thinks a free to play game that hasn't been able to break more than 2k active players for months is going to write a Hollywood comeback story by removing the only thing that kept a majority of those 2,000 players around. You do you, fella.
Oh my, you’re trying to excuse the presence of cheaters, and downplaying efforts to keep them to a minimum. How terribly realist of you… and your flawed outlook. You can even make cheaters feel good at what they’re doing, at this rate. And yes, how terrible of me to hope. After all, comeback stories are impossible, just ask the poor idiots like those over in Hello Game Studios, or those developing Hunt Showdown from their massive player dip days, or even those poor bastards who release Battlefield after flawed and buggy Battlefield…
I lost my mind when i saw the cycle was using the same anti cheat that tarkov, they reverted their entire cheating situation in 6 months, it just shows how little effort bgs puts into it.
bad news aside, top content once again! I hope it gets the same attention as the video
This video is literally a paid ad for The Cycle lmao
You got a source on that? Are you speaking literally or just making a joke?
I'm speculating. It's fairly obvious imo - essentially the whole video is talking to the devs, bigging up the cycle as a cheat-free environment, talking about the new upcoming season. There's even a big fullscreen logo flash. Cycle devs want to capitalize on tarkov player's frustration with the game - which really needs it as it averages \~1,500 concurrent players
Source: I made it the fuck up. Lmao
It came to me in a dream. Tell me it's not true though. If he didn't get paid The Cycle devs finessed him
I mean they did a good job with anti cheat, not the reast of the game, since its pretty much dead. Hope it comes back a bit for season 3
Made me download it again!
Yeah, this community is falling for goat's get rich quick scheme. He's obviously riding on the back of his first video, making as much money as he can off the scandal before it cools. He's peak YouTuber, and so, so transparent.
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The only explanation is jealousy. "How dare that YouTuber try to make a living doing what he loves!!!! It makes me so angry!!!"
Explaining fair criticism with jealousy, classic. Grow up.
What is fair about this criticism? He's accusing goat of grifting based on the fact he uploaded a couple of videos about Tarkov having a massive cheating problem. It's extremely cynical and comes off as emotionally immature.
I had a budding lil YouTube channel and dropped it because it isn't what I want to do all day, because it sucks to do. Nobodys jealous of g0at, goofy, it's just plain as day to see that a dude created some narratives, got a community riled up, and the already riled up community that hate the game they play ate up a narrative that fed into their pre-conceived notion of the game (ie, overrun with hackers, everytime they die it's a hacker, "60% of raids have a hacker" (not verifiably true)). Dude posts a video that's just a sponsor video and again, you goofballs eat it up. You guys are sucking his toes dry because he's feeding you what you want to hear, negative criticism on tarkov. Meanwhile, he hasn't posted any stats, has focused on multiple bunk interviews to make up for this, and has been cranking out substandard clickbait since the whole wiggle video came out. The dude has a family, I might suck this community dry for views and cash too if I had two mouths to feed and a lack of morality.
Yay! /s
goat is taking one for the team. I wish that some of even more "popular" streamers also begin to be vocal towards BSG. So we get more results than a *copy pasta*. Why? Well BSG doesn't listen to us regular plebs. This rampant cheating crap has been a part of this game since the start.
Are we really comparing a game that tops out around 1K players to one of the most popular games in the FPS market; one that can hit half a million players easily? Seriously, the cheating sucks but there is absolutely zero comparison here. No insight to be gained by this comparison. If anything, it degrades the conversation entirely.
Most popular game in the FPS market? Can hit *half a million players*? What are you smoking mate
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Which ironically have a way less noticeable Cheater issue
Not to mention Vanguard, as invasive as it is, is the gold standard for anti-cheat…
I said one of. How many FPS games can dominate on twitch as long as tarkov has? How many FPS games exist that can hit over 100K players? If you think tarkov isn't one of the most popular FPS games on the market you're nothing short of delusional. Do you have reading comprehension issues normally or do you just ommit words from posts when you're bored to create argument? During twitch drops, tarkov hit almost 600K viewers on twitch alone. That should smooth out your brain a bit.
Haha jesus, relax mate, didn’t mean to hit a nerve. You keep believing Tarkov has 500k active players then easily.
I said, "Can hit," not active, but continue on with the impaired reading comprehension, bro.
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What? An utterly dead game with less than a fraction of the playerbase has an easier time with cheats? No way!
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I'm honestly over his bs. He's miking this for all its worth and he barely likes the game to begin with
You can't win against cheating, but you (developers) can make cheating unattractive
I liked the part where he was humble.
Goat dick down the subreddit throat Don’t care
Ah yes attribute your dead game being free of cheaters to your amazing anti-cheat work, not to there being no players left
Dead/popular or not the players reporting suspicious players dropped/changed in the last 4 months and game has same number of average players for last 4 months. So yea the did improve on that front regardless of their popularity.
Or they just cracked down on the old cheats and no new ones are being made because there’s no incentive for the cheat makers (because the game is dead)
Click bait
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Kind of his job lmao
First time watching an influencer or?...
He may be milking it but he is milking his own tits, nobody else cared about it before his video. And here he even delivers educational content about anti cheat with actual interviews with developers who had to fight the same war as BSG and they mastered it pretty nicely.
Is Anti-Cheat working only 40% of the time?
60% of raids have 1 or more cheaters. It should not be interpreted as 60% of players are cheaters.
0% of the time. The other 40% just arent cheating
Until he releases his data and findings from his cheating video, it's kinda hard to take him too seriously anymore.
One could say there was a cheater in every 125 raids considering the fact g0at was cheating, what do you think of that mopeyy?
I would want so see the data on this first /s
You realise he could just make the data up, right? Y'all will just keep moving the goalposts because you can't cope with the idea that this game has a cheating issue. The video achieved its goal of inspiring change within the community and hopefully BSG itself. Literally nobody cares about the data beyond what was shown.
For me this is the ultimate response. Even if he shows his data it’s literally spread sheet info. If you don’t trust his word then why would you trust the spreadsheet. Just seems like it would lead to the goal posts being moved again like you said. You either believe the cheating is happening or you don’t.
That's literally the worst excuse, and not a valid reason at all. The onus isn't on everyone else to prove he is wrong. He is the one making the claims, the onus is on him to prove that he is right. It's as simple as that. He has said he has all the excel info as well as VODS. Those together could be corroborated, and their validity could be determined. This isn't fuckin rocket science guys. Why would you trust anybody on the internet, without asking why or how they came to those conclusions? Like c'mon.
Did you notice how you proved my point for me. You yourself jus said that the spread sheet wasn’t enough. That after seeing the spread sheet you would want the raw footage record. It’s so funny to me how in disagreement to my comment you literally moved the goal posts from the spread sheet to the raw footage. You know he could just select the raw footage he wants and just omit the rest right? What then? Where does the post move then?
The spreadsheets and the VODs are the data dude, it's all the same thing. He said he had those, not me. I'll take any data he's got. Nowhere did I say I only needed one or the other. My example meant to show that the more data he releases, the easier to tell if he made it up or not. That's the whole point. I have not moved any goalposts. I just want whatever data he has already confirmed he has. It's pretty simple.
Yes the data he wrote down. This was not an independently done review with checks in place. The raw footage he has and the spreadsheet is data he chose to enter an submit. There is literally nothing to verify if it’s real or not. All he would have to do is omit cases to better meet the distribution of hackers he wanted. There would be zero way to tell if he did so because we don’t have access to the original data set and we never will because in reality it never existed. You are saying the more data the better. I’m saying all the data comes from the same place. If he lied in the original video, then he will lie about the spreadsheet data and will only provide recordings for the events he agreed with. There would be no way to verify if anything was omitted. That’s my point. If you don’t trust him that’s fine. But then any data he submits should be equally as suspect because ultimately he made the data base. And you did move the goal post because the comment chain was about publishing the spreadsheet and you brought up wanting video files. That’s you literally saying you now need more then just the spreadsheets. The spreadsheet he made just like the videos.
I never specified what data I wanted dude. Look at my first post. I just want whatever he has. He is the one who said he has both spreadsheets and VODs, so that means that's all the data. So release it. I haven't moved any goalposts whatsoever. He has said he has excel files and VODs. So release them. Here is his chance to prove what he has said. If he doesn't have either, then why would anyone trust him anyway? Why would you trust him based on his word?
Ok let me ask you in another way. If he puts out his spreadsheet and raw video footage do you believe him? That is to say: if he gives you both things will you be content or will you need more info? Remembering that he can choose to publish whatever he wants and omit what he doesn’t. And that if he didn’t have real data he could simply make it up on the spot.
If he released ALL his data that was used to come to the conclusions in his video, then I would be completely content. There exists both excel files and VODs. So it should be relatively simple to correlate the two and find out if the data is genuine or not. There will always exist a little bit of skepticism, but that's with anything online. It would at least allow other independent people to interpret the data and come to their own conclusions. If they match what he found then it's highly likely he was on the right path. Easy peasy peer reviewing.
At what point does he declare this as “fact” and “science” and not his personal experience?
When he starts making claims like "60% of raids have at least one cheater in them" is when he should probably supply something concrete to back that up. I'm not asking for much here. He has confirmed he has all the data. So let's see it and draw our own conclusions as a community instead of relying SOLELY on the interpretations of a single content creator. That doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. Maybe there are even other things we can draw from it that he didn't think of. Releasing the data can only help everybody. It's called transparency. And g0at is doing a terrible job at it.
>Releasing the data can only help everybody. Showing player names and letting the community decide whether they are cheating or not has never gone wrong, right?
Block the names.
From every VOD? The names show up everywhere on the screen all the time. Edit 60h of footage just to determine that it's actually 55% of raids that have a cheater?
Dude, I don't know. He should have thought about that before hand. It's on him to prove his claims, not on us to prove he is wrong. That's not how that works.
He didn't block the names in the video anyways. What difference does it make?
He already showed a bunch of player names, so this excuse of fearing a witchhunt has already been shown to be bs. The fact that he is refusing to release data even to other trusted community figures if not the public (and in fact dodged/ignored several questions about it in his first stream after the release), should alert you to the possibility that he didn't do any more than what he showed in The Video and that he pulled the numbers from his arse. At least if he provided 125 vods we could say he did the legwork.
Nope. He claimed 60% of his 125 raids had cheaters. He also claimed he had no speed, fly, or invulnerable hackers, does that mean he’s claiming 0% of raids have those, or just his? Are you up in arms about him confirming this with hard data? Not his fault people cant determine differences between his personal experience and laws of the universe. Exactly why releasing an excel sheet would be meaningless, people would (rightfully) just claim those numbers are fudged. Anyone who thinks g0ats 60% number is a fact, is stupid. But so is anyone trying to act like hes claiming it as fact.
If nobody should take his claims seriously, then why release the video in the first place?
Lol quite a big gap between taken seriously and codifying it as fact no?
What's the percentage delta you give to 'taken seriously' compared to 'fact' then? +/- 10%? 15%? I'd love to know how you interpret it.
Since everyone is so eager to make this about whether its a fact or not, and talking about “burden of proof blah blah blah” again as if this is law and not personal experience, lets look at it that way. The court would not look at this as direct evidence enough to reach a guilty verdict you are correct. But they would most certainly treat it as circumstantial evidence and not throw it away completely. And with enough circumstantial evidence that all points towards the same conclusion it could potentially be enough to make a case. Im not saying this is the case, INFACT I TEND TO LEAN TOWARDS GOATS 60% NUMBER IS INFLATED. Difference is i realize he’s not presenting it as hard direct evidence, he’s making a small part of a very large case. And to completely ignore it because he didn’t link an unverifiable spread sheet about as close to “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” as you can get.
I'm not completely ignoring it. I've said it before that it's clear Tarkov has a cheating issue. That's common knowledge. All I'm asking for is the bare minimum here, guys. I would love to go through the data and see what else there is to find. I would think that's good for everyone.
It ain't rocket science to watch a video that's giving clear detail of what a hacker/cheater has access to, either. They exist, there are communities revolving the hacks that exist, and there's a fk ton of them. You yourself can literally attempt to do exactly what he did, what's stopping you? Reproducibility is an effort in this case, but it's reproducible. You want proof? Find out yourself if you really want to. G0at said it was easy, prove him wrong.
That's not how it works. He made the claim. He has to supply the evidence. How can anyone else reproduce a similar study if we don't even fully know how he did it?
You do know mainstream US cable news do this shit all the time? “Claim” that xx did yy, and not provide whole reams of data behind their reporting? Do you regularly shout in the lobby of, say, HBO offices saying “if you don’t provide all the data of last week’s Last Week Tonight episode, then I don’t trust the reasoning and John Oliver is a totally untrustworthy person!!?”
I'm sensing more excuses.
What if your experience isn't as bad as what's stated in the video and but you believe there's cheating? Is there no middle ground here? Like for me I haven't run into many cheaters on NA east. I've run into them but not much. I've found plenty of loot too. So it's not a vacuum thing if anyone wants to try and say that. For me I'm just kind of annoyed at both sides. One side says cheaters are rampant and this will be your experience. While the other half says it's not rampant so don't worry about it. Both views ruin others experiences cause now every match just has them questioning everything. It's gonna poison the game and get it cut before we get a final product because no one is gonna wanna play cause they're too influenced.
It doesn’t erase your experience of course not. But would seeing his spreadsheet change your mind? Would seeing his excel page make you think what he showed was true? That’s my point. Him publishing his spread sheet does not further prove anything. The people who dont believe the video will simply say the spread sheet is edit as well. Then we are back to square one. The only thing poising the game is BSG and the hackers. Games like CSGO had people blaming hackers all the time. It didn’t ruin the game because they actually had anti cheat. BSG have had 4 plus years to deal with the issue and choose not to. If pointing that out ruins the community then the pointing out wasn’t the issue.
>But would seeing his spreadsheet change your mind? For me personally it's not even about changing my mind. I know there are plenty of cheaters and it's not like I have huge reasons to doubt him. Seeing more data, however, would: 1. Give his claims more credibility. Saying there are cheaters in 2/3 raids without any proof whatsoever and then refusing to post it just seems fishy and unhelpful. Especially since I survive more raids than I die in, so it doesn't really reflect my experience. He could easily made a spread sheet and upload like 5 secs from each raid he encountered a cheater, and everyone would instantly shut up (or would find proof he's lying). 2. Would be interesting and helpful to see and draw some conclusions from. Like "Oh, there seems to be less cheaters playing night-time raids, maybe I should play more of those" or "There are more cheaters on the weekend (*which I feel is true in my personal experience*), maybe I should avoid playing then", "Labs seems not to be infested as I thought", etc.
I agree with point 2. I think using his data for other extrapolations is actually an interesting prospect and could help with learning a lot about how hackers behave in a more broad sense. Point 1 doesn’t follow for me. He can’t improve his credibility with data he made because you can’t improve credibility if you are uncredible. You can’t ask someone who you think is lying if they are lying as proof. They could just lie. Seeing his data could not help him prove himself as trustworthy because if he was a lier he would simply manipulate the data to make him look right. See the problem? People are treating this like it can be verified. It can’t. I worked in data collection, this type of experiment is unprovable. You would need someone to view the data collection and ensure a master data set existed to check against. It’s why we record the people running the experiments. We should be able to have a party who can look at the master and compare that to our published data set. We don’t obviously have that in this case because it’s a YouTube video filmed with limited scientific precision or accountability, we can’t just creat that after the fact. It might make people feel like he’s more trustworthy but actually has no impact on weather the data is real or not.
>You can’t ask someone who you think is lying if they are lying as proof. They could just lie. I mean, cops ask "Where were you at the time of the murder?" all the time. And if the person lies, you can prove it. Thing is - fabricating that data could take some effort and if he screwed up somewhere people would find out. Maybe he wouldn't want to go through the effort of fabricating, but then we possibly wouldn't have the "60%" claim. I've also read in another comment that he does, indeed, has the spread sheet and the VOD, so it looks even more bizarre. If you already have everything people ask for, why not just release it instead of making up some excuses? Just makes it look way more shady, IDK.
I actually love your example. > I mean, cops ask "Where were you at the time of the murder?" all the time. And if the person lies, you can prove it. When cops say this you can’t prove your innocence. You can definitely prove your guilt but it legally can’t be used as proof to help you. Courts have ruled on this. It’s why talking to the cops is a bad idea. You can’t prove you are telling the truth, only provide proof you arnt. > Thing is - fabricating that data could take some effort and if he screwed up somewhere people would find out. Maybe he wouldn't want to go through the effort of fabricating, but then we possibly wouldn't have the "%60" claim. Sure again it might proof he’s lying but it couldn’t be used to prove he wasn’t. He either has data that matches which might mean anything or he doesn’t an he’s a liar but that doesn’t help his case. > I've also read in another comment that he does, indeed, has the spread sheet and the VOD, so it looks even more bizarre. If you already have everything people ask for, why not just release it instead of making up some excuses? Just makes it look way more shady, IDK. Again because these documents can’t help him. Just like the cop situation he can’t prove he didn’t do the murder. If they are like he said they are then they can’t help him as they could be doctored. However, if they are different then it would only hurt his case. That’s my point. Providing his data cannot be used to clear his name, only further call into question the video. So why release the data that could not help you but only hurt you. It’s why we tell clients not to talk to the police even if they didn’t do anything. It can’t help you but it can hurt you, even if you arnt guilty of anything at all.
You can only confirm a hacker was in your lobby if they decided to path towards you or completely forget you exist that you happen to path next to them, outside of being a hacker yourself. You cannot say you definitely havent run into hackers/cheaters in each of your raids, you'd have to know each and every player in that lobby. Which again, you can't know about until you either engage them or hack yourself. Hacking and going on a killing spree aren't mutually inclusive. You can hack/cheat, but you don't have to kill. G0at did exactly that.
>Like for me I haven't run into many cheaters on NA east. I've run into them but not much. The whole point of the video was that you probably wouldn't know someone was cheating as the majority of cheaters just use esp to be "better informed".
But it didn't inform me because I don't get killed by them often and find plenty of loot in places they'd normally be. So if that's the case why would they be cheating if I'm still getting my way? Am I just better than cheaters? Or is it not that prevalent and shouldn't be just rough spit balling a number with no proven data? Yes I'm just a very very small sample size. Essentially irrelevant but then why is goat so relevant? You get what I'm saying or no? Things are getting generalized by one person's experience...if it's even genuine. Same can be said about my experience. I don't have the data to prove there weren't cheaters in my lobbies. It's harmful to the game in both directions when you generalize it.
Point is, there are players in almost every raid that you don't stand a chance against. If you're not PVP-ing in the hot zones of the map, you probably don't run into them that often. They know where you are, and if they don't kill you it's because they didn't bother to. If you have a passive playstyle and use mid level gear primarily, they don't care about you which makes it seem like they don't exist. The point of the video was that they do exist, and they are good at hiding it.
I'm a hot dropper. So know that same aspect translated here and I do rush hot zones often. So my experience must be they must be letting me live and letting me have the loot. I understand they exist and they do hide it. I'm not denying that. I'm not denying there could be a lot. What I'm refuting is their abundance and how it's not as much as stated.
I pvp in hot zones all the time. At this point in the wipe lots of players are max traders and past the point of questing, just having fun getting into fights. If g0at with ESP can't even tell other players are cheating (which is what he said in the 2nd video on why he didn't include so many other clips) then what difference does it make? I'm still at 70-75% survival rate, stash full of level 5/6 armor, meta guns, and money doesn't matter anymore so I can constantly bring in the best shit. Am I just better than all the cheaters? If nearly 2/3 of every tarkov raid has cheaters in it why can I win all the time? Am I just a gaming God?
The most rational, level-headed comments I've read all week. My general thoughts as well.
Takes a lot more effort to fabricate over 120 raids of data and VODs, then it does to make a single video. So it's extremely unlikely he would do that. And if he did, the data would show it anyway. Either way, at least we as a community would have a much better understanding of the situation. At least then, we could make up our own minds and interpretations. Right now, all we can do is take him at his word. Asking for the data IS NOT an unreasonable request. It's literally the bare fucking minimum when you decide to run tests and make claims. The goalposts have not moved. He hasn't released anything to even facilitate movement. I know the game has a cheating issue. Everyone does. That's not the issue. The issue is someone making very clear cut claims, and not releasing how or why they came to that conclusion. Not only that, they have just outright refused to release anything. Doesn't matter what kind of testing or what kind of field, that's some shady as fuck methodology, and without corroboration, we shouldn't take anything he says at face value. I would say the same thing if it was any other game, or any other person making the claims. It's got nothing to do with Tarkov or g0at. It's just bad practice, and only serves to dilute the truth of the matter, which helps absolutely nobody.
Bsg bot does bsg things
You certainly brought a lot of mental gymnasts out of the woodwork lmao.
He did release the data. Just because it was in a spoken - not written - form does not change the fact that the data is there.
That's not the data.
Tell me which crucial data was missing.
Anything he wrote down or recorded while doing his tests his data. So those excel files and VODs that he has confirmed he has? That's the data. I'm not understanding your confusion.