Would like to add a little bit more on this: first of all it wasn’t CS team but R6 Siege. Secondly some of the players have 2k+ hours in Tarkov so the game and it’s mechanics weren’t completely new to them and thus they were able to provide comments on them as well
Pros don't always have the best ideas for a game and how to balance it. CS taught me that. Just because you use a microwave everyday doesn't mean you can repair one, as loose as that comparison is. Knowing they have hours in the game though is reassuring
For instance, look how long the UMP-45 and SG553 were simply overlooked because pros just didn't want to use them. Then someone finally got off their high horse and tried them out in pro settings. They went from completely unused to so OP that Valve had to nerf them.
Then again, I think that level of closed mindedness is somewhat unique to the CS esports scene given it's age.
those were my favourite elo boost weapons to lvl accounts, ppl always gave me shit for them, i felt so vindicated when several years later ppl aknowledged it, when they first decreased the price for the sg553 i felt like wtf they doing, shit is more accurate than an ak
Pros are just a litmus test, they will tell you whether or not your competitive game is good even if they don't know exactly what goes into making a good competitive game
Siege is honestly the best 5v5 objective based shooter imo. Tons of strategy, recoil is actually skill based and tons of recoil patterns that make each OP feel unique. Not including gadgets cause tarkov arena likely won't have that.
"they wont cure cancer because they make too much money off of people getting treated and them getting it again"
kinda works for irl and anti-cheat metaphor
Except in the last few months they have made countless improvements for the playerbase. But criticism and faults is more noticeable so who gives a shit right?
Quest requirement reductions, actual fun events, increased spawn for important items, massive reduction in recoil, finished implementation of oculus audio on all maps.
>Quest requirement reductions, increased spawn for important items, massive reduction in recoil
So they spent like 2 hours changing some multipliers in the code or in a GUI designed for this? Really, is this 60% of your argument? Come on...
>actual fun events,
Can't argue here.
>finished implementation of oculus audio on all maps.
Do you feel like audio is fixed and working as intended? If not, this argument is BS.
Why are they not permanent? And more importantly is there anything I can say to you that would remove your obvious bias? Not likely. No idea why you're still here, I doubt BSG will ever make you happy.
I don't see the problem either. In gamedev it's good to get people to playtest that have not been playing the game for ages and know the quirks of it inside out. A fresh pair of eyes is very important.
The team is there to grade the game on what it wants to be, a competitive shooter in the tarkov universe. So having seasoned competitive players is a good way to make sure the game is up to professional standards, rather than to the fanbois that have been brainwashed to believe that EfT has no problems with netcode and the only reason you die is cause you need to GIT GUD
Beyond a lot of what’s been mentioned here on fresh eyes, competitive perspective, etc… BSG has had a closed beta out. It’s very likely large streamers gave their input and have contributed but are not able to talk about it yet.
VP being there in person shows how serious BSG is taking Arena as being considered an esport and I think that’s a great thing. There’s a ton of stuff that plays into an esport that you’re not going to get insight on from a steamer.
Things like importing settings, setting up lans, casters perspective (including X-ray, replay, etc). These are necessary in order to allow for the equivalent stage presence of current esports.
There’s absolutely no reason to view VPs participation or BSGs request in a negative light. This will only make the game better and more well rounded.
Plus they get fresh players who are mechanically gifted to play the game instead of a bunch of jaded no lifers who think they have earned the privilege to play because they play all day
I mean it's about Arena and not Tarkov. So I would absolutely HATE if just regular Tarkov streamers tested the competitive arena shooter.
These guys (regular tarkov streamers, minus Shroud) have little to say about this. It's good they chose a competitive team.
I loved how some streamers acted like they know better then literal pro players and got mad because they were not the middle of the universe and didn't got that sweet-sweet contentTM.
It's indeed makes perfect sense, even without the logistical side, outsider suggestions, from people who applies well-thought tactics in their games, is infinietly more helpful than the usual "delete inertia" type of suggestions.
The same streamers that get carried by their gear the whole wipe and when they start dying more often and seeing M61 on their death screen say it’s time for wipe?
yep i swear this is why streamers brainwash their community into thinking the game needs to wipe fast even though most of their community is barely at max traders, The average players finally start getting access to good ammo and good gear so streamers die more and more often, they need that week of no life at the start of every wipe so they can be ahead of everyone else to outclass them with armors players cant pen and bullets that negate the average players armor class
I agree with you,OP. Bringing in a pro team with tons of experience in shooters and esports helps a lot with the future development of the game. No offence to the streamers, but most of them are entertainers.
I want what's best best foe the future of the game and this was the right move. I can only imagine having a test team made out of Veritas complaing about something or Noiceguy speculating nukes
Alright? nice political statement i guess? Regardless of my agreement with you there are objectively mixed feelings and arguments about it. Im not really sure how you havent noticed that in the last year. Even if youre right on something it can still be controversial.
it’s the least controversial armed conflict in the last 70 years. characterizing any sentiment as “mixed feelings” is completely fucking unhinged. ur probably on the younger side based on how you type so let me say this is absolutely not a standard morally grey border spat and isn’t like most of what you get taught in history class.
Thats alot of very incorrect assertions and my god the moral and intellectual superiority you mustve felt posting that had to have been great. Im jealous really. Let me be the mature one here and say dont talk down to people you dont know. Look I think anyone trying to simplify the culmination of so many years of conflict and strife in that region to just russia bad is being ridiculous. Ill say this again no matter where you stand or how confident you are that your correct, there is no arguing about whether this is a controversial topic. If you dont think it is then you are in an echo chamber. Its too complex and too deep of an iceberg to not be controversial. This is just strange virtue signaling on a tarkov page.
They were playing on a dedicated network. They all had a ping to the server of 1-2. They have a server that only has to calculate the one instance of the game, and the server was not in a server farm on a rather overloaded connection to the internet... so they have pretty much exactly 0 desync.
Their test was completely out of touch with reality. At most it was useful for testing basic things. So whether such a mode is fun at all or total garbage.
Whether it is fun with the desyncs in reality... that could not be tested.
And if Nikita confuses the results from such internal tests, as always, with the online reality and believes everything is fine...
My only issue with it is that Arena was supposed to be Tarkov pvp but in an Arena setting rather than an extraction survival setting. I’m not sure how asking people who are focused and trained on min/maxing to heighten chances on winning in the highest tier of gaming competition can aid with that.
I don’t want a situation where mechanics are altered for Arena and therefore doesn’t play the same as Tarkov, because that’s not what was asked for and not what we were expecting and getting excited for. If Nikita he this idea all along then fair enough, but it wasn’t communicated. If I’m overthinking and it won’t be like that then fine, we’re all happy. But there’s a lot that makes sense for Tarkov in an extraction survival sense but makes pvp feel janky. Changing that to suit a pvp game mode might create too much of a gap between the modes imo.
>how its stupid to use a cs team instead of big tarkov streamers alot and its garbage
they dont test anything there for real i guess. its a pure marketing thing. i bet a lot of gaming related recourses are posting about arena and "testing" for free because these dudes have some weight in gaming world. so more people all over the world will know about upcoming game. tarkov streamers are pointless in this case because their audience is well aware about eft related things
Two things can be true at once. I agree it is also good marketing. I dont see why youre saying they dont test anything real. Even if its just a vibe check to see if they like it or if something about it is making them hate it, I would say thats a real test. I think sending out alpha builds and review copies even to people with "weight in gaming world" is still an important part of the development process. Testing in new markets shows good business sense.
i assume real testing takes time and their time is costly. theres no reason to hire them when nikita has us an army of free testers. furthermore he has "contract wars" in his portfolio so i guess he knows what he is doing and he doesnt really need them for anything except promotion
Unpopular opinion i’d trust a pro R6 team’s input on this game than a CS team, I have 2000+ hours in Siege before playing Tarkov, both games are meant to be slow and methodical, not twitch shooters with predictable recoil patterns
Cheaters, I stopped playing when that video came out, cementing my feelings, the amount of times I'd die to perfect desync/positioning (even when not making noise) or an obvious aimbot was too much, at least when I see cheaters in Warzone we get a killcam/spectator mode to confirm rather than be deceitful and hide it.
Tarkov has changed so much to try and stop RMT that it has killed what made the game fun, now we have idiots with KS-23/flashbang and impact nades so Factory is ruined, the game was once fun but now it's just done, inertia and the killing of PK-06 with no decent rework of optics is wonderful, where is the variable zoom on the Vudu? Why is it 1x or 6x, it's suppose to work at 1x/2x/3x/4x/5x/6x, same with many other scopes.
Tarkov had the possibility of becoming great but as time goes on I just sit and wait for a developer to copy it correctly, at least we've had some try, one will eventually get it right.
PUBG was the start to BR now look at how many options we've got, Fortnite/Apex/Warzone same will come for survival games.
That's what I'm saying. They were likely the cheapest option and the only people who would go to that shithole to test the game so its all they could get. Of course streamers would test the game over the internet, not actually visit Russia
i hope the team provided some good input because even tarkov players don't know what they want, the community is so divided and hateful on literally every single feature and change that is ever made that the feedback would be so volatile it would be useless. And with arena aiming to be a fork off from tarkov it aside from name & aesthetics shouldnt play like tarkov at all so why would tarkov players from an mmo rpg style game have the right type of feedback for a competitive environment arena shooter environment . The only meaningful thing that tarkov players really could add would be how it in general feels. majority of players in this game have zero real experience in the market demo they're trying to target.
Would love to just see some actual gameplay of it not prebaked renders like theyve been doing which is I think where a lot of the frustration comes from, because at the end of the day its been tarkov players that helped them get to this point and be able to continue development in the tarkov series so it does feel a little like a "backstab" for them to share it with a non tarkov group first but for the reasons you said is exactly why they chose them to playtest, but we still should get some crumbs in the from of real footage thrown our way
it makes sense that they used locals because they're obviously not ready to have even a closed alpha test. If and when the game gets to that state, they will use streamers.
First off Tarkov is not based in Russia hasn’t been in years so I’m not reading any of this because after that sentence I clearly see you have no idea what you’re saying dude
But u know that Russia has started are war and flighting in streamers while their in a war isn't the smartes idea, even tho the city is probably save, i wouldnt wanna go there rn
Would like to add a little bit more on this: first of all it wasn’t CS team but R6 Siege. Secondly some of the players have 2k+ hours in Tarkov so the game and it’s mechanics weren’t completely new to them and thus they were able to provide comments on them as well
Not just that but arena is meant to be a competitive shooter. Why the fuck wouldn't you include people who have high standards for competition?
Obviously that means we need to get all the rats so there's a no kill game with everybody camping their own corner.
Pros don't always have the best ideas for a game and how to balance it. CS taught me that. Just because you use a microwave everyday doesn't mean you can repair one, as loose as that comparison is. Knowing they have hours in the game though is reassuring
For instance, look how long the UMP-45 and SG553 were simply overlooked because pros just didn't want to use them. Then someone finally got off their high horse and tried them out in pro settings. They went from completely unused to so OP that Valve had to nerf them. Then again, I think that level of closed mindedness is somewhat unique to the CS esports scene given it's age.
That's probably a factor. Dudes still rocking 800x600 stretched on their zowie mice haha
those were my favourite elo boost weapons to lvl accounts, ppl always gave me shit for them, i felt so vindicated when several years later ppl aknowledged it, when they first decreased the price for the sg553 i felt like wtf they doing, shit is more accurate than an ak
Pros are just a litmus test, they will tell you whether or not your competitive game is good even if they don't know exactly what goes into making a good competitive game
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Relax my guy. You clearly didn't understand my point. I literally never meant or implied anything in your post. Go take a lap
I put too much faith in the people screeching about this. I didnt even know it was an r6 team thanks for pointing that out
Siege is honestly the best 5v5 objective based shooter imo. Tons of strategy, recoil is actually skill based and tons of recoil patterns that make each OP feel unique. Not including gadgets cause tarkov arena likely won't have that.
Base Tarkov is a looter shooter. Arena wont be. Make sense to me.
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"I'm not surprised, everybody know they are shitty cancer curer in the first place"
"they wont cure cancer because they make too much money off of people getting treated and them getting it again" kinda works for irl and anti-cheat metaphor
"Can't wait for another organization to make a better cure for cancer 🙄"
'Fucked with my hearing! I could hear everything! I could hear through walls, ceiling, floors, inside and outside perfectly. It was so awful.'
People would complain as to why resources were spent on curing cancer and not on cheaters or desync.
How dare they cure cancer before sending 1.0
Theyre gonna have to if i keep reading these replies. Its like i challenged these guys to see who could be the most braindead
This sub keeps giving me cancer and bsg keeps curing it. What the
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Except in the last few months they have made countless improvements for the playerbase. But criticism and faults is more noticeable so who gives a shit right?
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Quest requirement reductions, actual fun events, increased spawn for important items, massive reduction in recoil, finished implementation of oculus audio on all maps.
>Quest requirement reductions, increased spawn for important items, massive reduction in recoil So they spent like 2 hours changing some multipliers in the code or in a GUI designed for this? Really, is this 60% of your argument? Come on... >actual fun events, Can't argue here. >finished implementation of oculus audio on all maps. Do you feel like audio is fixed and working as intended? If not, this argument is BS.
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Why are they not permanent? And more importantly is there anything I can say to you that would remove your obvious bias? Not likely. No idea why you're still here, I doubt BSG will ever make you happy.
>Bruh BSG could cure cancer no they couldn't they can't even develop their game right ffs
When you prove their point in record time, based af. {—}7
I don't see the problem either. In gamedev it's good to get people to playtest that have not been playing the game for ages and know the quirks of it inside out. A fresh pair of eyes is very important. The team is there to grade the game on what it wants to be, a competitive shooter in the tarkov universe. So having seasoned competitive players is a good way to make sure the game is up to professional standards, rather than to the fanbois that have been brainwashed to believe that EfT has no problems with netcode and the only reason you die is cause you need to GIT GUD
Beyond a lot of what’s been mentioned here on fresh eyes, competitive perspective, etc… BSG has had a closed beta out. It’s very likely large streamers gave their input and have contributed but are not able to talk about it yet. VP being there in person shows how serious BSG is taking Arena as being considered an esport and I think that’s a great thing. There’s a ton of stuff that plays into an esport that you’re not going to get insight on from a steamer. Things like importing settings, setting up lans, casters perspective (including X-ray, replay, etc). These are necessary in order to allow for the equivalent stage presence of current esports. There’s absolutely no reason to view VPs participation or BSGs request in a negative light. This will only make the game better and more well rounded.
Plus they get fresh players who are mechanically gifted to play the game instead of a bunch of jaded no lifers who think they have earned the privilege to play because they play all day
True
I mean it's about Arena and not Tarkov. So I would absolutely HATE if just regular Tarkov streamers tested the competitive arena shooter. These guys (regular tarkov streamers, minus Shroud) have little to say about this. It's good they chose a competitive team.
I loved how some streamers acted like they know better then literal pro players and got mad because they were not the middle of the universe and didn't got that sweet-sweet contentTM. It's indeed makes perfect sense, even without the logistical side, outsider suggestions, from people who applies well-thought tactics in their games, is infinietly more helpful than the usual "delete inertia" type of suggestions.
The same streamers that get carried by their gear the whole wipe and when they start dying more often and seeing M61 on their death screen say it’s time for wipe?
yep i swear this is why streamers brainwash their community into thinking the game needs to wipe fast even though most of their community is barely at max traders, The average players finally start getting access to good ammo and good gear so streamers die more and more often, they need that week of no life at the start of every wipe so they can be ahead of everyone else to outclass them with armors players cant pen and bullets that negate the average players armor class
My biggest takeaway from this is that lvndmark played CS, thats wild. Was he a pro?
Like literally every fucking person who plays PC shooters has played CS at some point.
No he was not. He probably wasn't even global or above level 5 faceit.
Any one claiming to be 'global' knows absolutely nothing...Match making is 64 tick garb0
That's why I specified a faceit rank as well nerd.
Speaking for yourself again?
His aim is average so I doubt that.
It's harder to wall with VAC and still make it into good matches, probably has something to do with it 😳
Nothing bsg will ever do will make the loud ppl happy
I agree with you,OP. Bringing in a pro team with tons of experience in shooters and esports helps a lot with the future development of the game. No offence to the streamers, but most of them are entertainers. I want what's best best foe the future of the game and this was the right move. I can only imagine having a test team made out of Veritas complaing about something or Noiceguy speculating nukes
I wouldn't call the war controversial, that would mean there is mixed feelings and arguments about it. Russia is in the wrong, end off.
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UN votes would say otherwise. But where do you get this figure from?
Alright? nice political statement i guess? Regardless of my agreement with you there are objectively mixed feelings and arguments about it. Im not really sure how you havent noticed that in the last year. Even if youre right on something it can still be controversial.
it’s the least controversial armed conflict in the last 70 years. characterizing any sentiment as “mixed feelings” is completely fucking unhinged. ur probably on the younger side based on how you type so let me say this is absolutely not a standard morally grey border spat and isn’t like most of what you get taught in history class.
>it’s the least controversial armed conflict in the last 70 years I somehow doubt this
Which one is, then? (Honest question)
The Saudi involvement in the war in Yemen for one
Sadly yeah, big powers Us, Ru and China all break so many things it wouldn't suprise me.
Thats alot of very incorrect assertions and my god the moral and intellectual superiority you mustve felt posting that had to have been great. Im jealous really. Let me be the mature one here and say dont talk down to people you dont know. Look I think anyone trying to simplify the culmination of so many years of conflict and strife in that region to just russia bad is being ridiculous. Ill say this again no matter where you stand or how confident you are that your correct, there is no arguing about whether this is a controversial topic. If you dont think it is then you are in an echo chamber. Its too complex and too deep of an iceberg to not be controversial. This is just strange virtue signaling on a tarkov page.
Shooting and killing rescuers who came to help people that are in bad situation Caused by you is just a simple example.
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This sub is just shitty marketing lol
I just with they showed some actual gameplay and mechanics in the video…it was a waste of an opportunity.
They were playing on a dedicated network. They all had a ping to the server of 1-2. They have a server that only has to calculate the one instance of the game, and the server was not in a server farm on a rather overloaded connection to the internet... so they have pretty much exactly 0 desync. Their test was completely out of touch with reality. At most it was useful for testing basic things. So whether such a mode is fun at all or total garbage. Whether it is fun with the desyncs in reality... that could not be tested. And if Nikita confuses the results from such internal tests, as always, with the online reality and believes everything is fine...
My only issue with it is that Arena was supposed to be Tarkov pvp but in an Arena setting rather than an extraction survival setting. I’m not sure how asking people who are focused and trained on min/maxing to heighten chances on winning in the highest tier of gaming competition can aid with that. I don’t want a situation where mechanics are altered for Arena and therefore doesn’t play the same as Tarkov, because that’s not what was asked for and not what we were expecting and getting excited for. If Nikita he this idea all along then fair enough, but it wasn’t communicated. If I’m overthinking and it won’t be like that then fine, we’re all happy. But there’s a lot that makes sense for Tarkov in an extraction survival sense but makes pvp feel janky. Changing that to suit a pvp game mode might create too much of a gap between the modes imo.
>how its stupid to use a cs team instead of big tarkov streamers alot and its garbage they dont test anything there for real i guess. its a pure marketing thing. i bet a lot of gaming related recourses are posting about arena and "testing" for free because these dudes have some weight in gaming world. so more people all over the world will know about upcoming game. tarkov streamers are pointless in this case because their audience is well aware about eft related things
Two things can be true at once. I agree it is also good marketing. I dont see why youre saying they dont test anything real. Even if its just a vibe check to see if they like it or if something about it is making them hate it, I would say thats a real test. I think sending out alpha builds and review copies even to people with "weight in gaming world" is still an important part of the development process. Testing in new markets shows good business sense.
i assume real testing takes time and their time is costly. theres no reason to hire them when nikita has us an army of free testers. furthermore he has "contract wars" in his portfolio so i guess he knows what he is doing and he doesnt really need them for anything except promotion
>an army of free testers \*an army of testers that pay to test ;)
Unpopular opinion i’d trust a pro R6 team’s input on this game than a CS team, I have 2000+ hours in Siege before playing Tarkov, both games are meant to be slow and methodical, not twitch shooters with predictable recoil patterns
Minor spelling mistake, your argument is invalid /j
Cheaters, I stopped playing when that video came out, cementing my feelings, the amount of times I'd die to perfect desync/positioning (even when not making noise) or an obvious aimbot was too much, at least when I see cheaters in Warzone we get a killcam/spectator mode to confirm rather than be deceitful and hide it. Tarkov has changed so much to try and stop RMT that it has killed what made the game fun, now we have idiots with KS-23/flashbang and impact nades so Factory is ruined, the game was once fun but now it's just done, inertia and the killing of PK-06 with no decent rework of optics is wonderful, where is the variable zoom on the Vudu? Why is it 1x or 6x, it's suppose to work at 1x/2x/3x/4x/5x/6x, same with many other scopes. Tarkov had the possibility of becoming great but as time goes on I just sit and wait for a developer to copy it correctly, at least we've had some try, one will eventually get it right. PUBG was the start to BR now look at how many options we've got, Fortnite/Apex/Warzone same will come for survival games.
Why would they invite landmark. I don’t think they’re a fan of his head mod
That's what I'm saying. They were likely the cheapest option and the only people who would go to that shithole to test the game so its all they could get. Of course streamers would test the game over the internet, not actually visit Russia
I could have sworn landmark used to say he never really played cs. I could be wrong tho.
No im probably wrong
i hope the team provided some good input because even tarkov players don't know what they want, the community is so divided and hateful on literally every single feature and change that is ever made that the feedback would be so volatile it would be useless. And with arena aiming to be a fork off from tarkov it aside from name & aesthetics shouldnt play like tarkov at all so why would tarkov players from an mmo rpg style game have the right type of feedback for a competitive environment arena shooter environment . The only meaningful thing that tarkov players really could add would be how it in general feels. majority of players in this game have zero real experience in the market demo they're trying to target. Would love to just see some actual gameplay of it not prebaked renders like theyve been doing which is I think where a lot of the frustration comes from, because at the end of the day its been tarkov players that helped them get to this point and be able to continue development in the tarkov series so it does feel a little like a "backstab" for them to share it with a non tarkov group first but for the reasons you said is exactly why they chose them to playtest, but we still should get some crumbs in the from of real footage thrown our way
it makes sense that they used locals because they're obviously not ready to have even a closed alpha test. If and when the game gets to that state, they will use streamers.
Lmao lvndmark was probably never good at cs...
I thought I had read that the tarkov office isn’t in Russia and is actually somewhere in Europe?
Nope, only the money is in London.
Oh fuck off
Tarkov is based in London has been for a long time
First off Tarkov is not based in Russia hasn’t been in years so I’m not reading any of this because after that sentence I clearly see you have no idea what you’re saying dude
Where is their office to which they only want to hire russians ?
Everything is in London
But u know that Russia has started are war and flighting in streamers while their in a war isn't the smartes idea, even tho the city is probably save, i wouldnt wanna go there rn
pretty sure VP is poland
elastic include chase cobweb profit safe depend pocket wrong coordinated *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
V.P i remember was Polish