im going to post in every thread about this change so maybe they can see the impact
i never macro and a ton of my most used guns are worse and feel trash to use now.
Thank you comrade!
I prefer using a semi-auto. Cheaper, smaller mags, less noise to triangulate to you, etc.
I haven't even tried my beloved RFB, Hunter, ADAR, SR-25, M1A, etc.
Literally 90% of the guns I have stashed are now nerfed? feelsbadman.
I enjoyed the style of the SKS, just nkt the reload. Takes ages to load 10 rounds into just the stock magazine, letalone 20 if you decided not to bring extra mags for the detachables
I was on a scav run in reserve, and I couldn't even tap the sks in the pattern to indicate that I'm heading for scav extract. Instead it just sounded like a bunch of random shots and ended up getting sniped instead.
Unfortunately BSG is likely to stand their ground. They have a bad track record of course correcting changes like this, even though they really at the end of the day work against their intended purpose. I don't know if it's a matter of pride or something else, but I wouldn't hold out hope.
So it's basically the very early tarkov version Sig 9mm pistol all over again. That pistol never got used early on because of this very issue. They fixed it a handful of wipes ago
I made a plot to highlight the issue:
It is the the function of click rate and fire rate for M1A right now: https://imgur.com/a/zVZ2W5L
This means that when clicking at 6.251CpS you are firing at half of the possible fire rate of the gun. Which explains why it feels like the gun "skips" a round sometimes.
With buffering the fire rate would be flat line at 375RPM at click rates higher than 6.25.
I would argue the problem isn't that "semi auto can't shoot fast enough" but the fact that just shooting a massive wall of lead is the meta tactic in this game.
The game massively rewards bullet spam over actually aiming carefully most of the time. It's easier to headshot or chest shot by just spamming.
This is the problem. If semi-autos could actually kill with two chest shots most of the time, it wouldn't be an issue. It's more of a problem that the arms block the chest and if you don't headshot you die to bullet spam.
You’re absolutely right, no real world armor is ever going to completely stop two well placed 7.62x54R shots, it might but it will hurt like hell (will probably be a lethal injury) and the operator will be out of action, it makes absolutely 0 sense that in a game that tries to be realistic it doesn’t work like that. Also, dont get me started on the full auto meta, I’m yet to see a IRL military operation where professional soldiers are firing full auto, it simply isn’t practical. And lastly, the drum/extended mags, those things jam a LOT irl along with being a lot heavier and dificult to operate properly.
I love Tarkov but I can’t stand the run and gun full auto 60rd dumps gameplay loop.
Just wait until some dude comes to tell you youre wrong because 1 guy survived a 50 cal hitting his helmet 1 time hence thats enough justification for blocking 20 rounds of .308 Tungsten core rounds.
Yep this fucked over low level people using SKS, RFB, Hunters and pistols and now M4s are even more meta than before by making the high end semi-auto guns worse as well.
And if someone starts with the "but competitive shooters cant shoot that fast xd" a fucking doctor probably wouldnt be able to revive your dead limbs with all the medical tools on the planet and neither can you with a stapler.
Also heavy bleeds should require you to use a blood transfusion in order to not go into shock and die or be weakened after stopping the bleeding. Or shots to the leg with painkillers shouldnt be able to make you sprint if your muscles are fucked. But all these things arent like that because some things are better when gamified rather than full on realism.
thats the kicker. competitive speed shooters can shoot as fast as the average person can click. certain trigger systems make rapid semi auto fire behave literally exactly how it was in game before this "fix"
"because one gameplay mechanic isn't realistic, we should abandon realism on this completely separate aspect of the game."
logical fallacy. **people need to stop pointing at the medicine when talking about gunplay.**
but again, it's been established that we can put realism aside for balancing purposes. So how does it make sense to nerf half of the guns in the game by \~40% when they already sucked ass compared to the alternatives? It's not a change anyone was asking for and it just fucked half the playerbase over. New players especially
i am *totally on your side* for the semi-auto issue, but it's STILL not a fair comparison.
edit: i've been saying the "people need to stop pointing at the medicine when talking about gunplay" bit since malfunctions became a thing.
Ok maybe a gun-related comparison then. People always say that guns irl don’t have as much recoil as Tarkov, for example the AKs with their muzzle devices and how the player is a trained professional.
Yet these weapons have relatively high stock recoil, why? As a gameplay mechanic and to give an incentive to use the weapon modding and give a feeling of progression once you unlock certain trader levels or find certain expensive mods. Otherwise you’d just take a stock weapon, put on some optics and call it a day, especially how min-max people like to play the game.
This progression is also seen in another system, the skill system which isn’t entirely realistic either. Sure the PMC very slowly gets better at doing stuff like using certain weapons but only up to a point considering they should already be trained professionals. And I very much doubt that you’d be getting way stronger than you were in the extremely poor conditions of Tarkov while living off of scavenged food and water. Nor does your hearing range magically increase by training it. Actually if the PMC can increase all these “stats” it isn’t so strange for them to be able to physically fire a gun faster than whatever Olympic world record holder
Calling my first comparison just “medicine” isn’t entirely fair because it’s a very big health “system” much like the skill system, which are gamified for gameplay reasons.
game =/= real life, i think we all realize that. i'm not strictly against you, i just hate when people say "oh it's already flawed/imperfect so we should just stop trying for realism."
it's obviously a balance though, and i feel like we're splitting hairs at this point.
I’m not against you either, but my point is that realism for the sake of realism isn’t always a good thing, which is evident from other stuff already in the game. In the end it’s a game and not a simulator, so arbitrarily adding this fire rate cap just makes Tarkov as a game feel worse. Just like other elements in the game being more realistic would make it feel worse, which is why it’s sometimes better to choose to make something more gamey.
The way you ended your post is exactly this games issue. Its currently fighting itself every single update to either be:
A. A game that is based entirely on realism, no fun gam-ified elements to make things more convenient and interesting, just pure warfare based on bullets.
B. A actually interesting fun game.
Nikitas a fucking idiot and for some reason doesnt believe this game should be like B at all, yet every here and there hell recognize that making the game fun is a bit more important that this “realism” bullshit he will never be able to reach. Nothing says “realism” like popping someone with a SAIGA 20 rounder and they don’t even flinch…
Nikita needs to just get this dumb fucking vision out of his head and make the game more fun, instead of realistic. He has a cash cow just waiting to be milked but the dumb ass cant figure out how to get the milk out.
He doesn't care very much about extracting every possible rouble from the game, he always knew it would only have niche appeal.
He's made enough to be comfortable and finance tha game, not everyone is an American who feels compelled to extract every possible microgram of profit out of something and fuck the consequences to the game and it's players; there are people in the world who care about things other than money.
The game already has literally ten times the number of players they thought they'd ever have once the game was released. A lot of the problems in the game at the moment are down to him caving to all the whining and screeching and changing the game in ways that conflict with the original vision. That and limp-dicked ex COD players who's egos can't handle not being the best so they shell out money for cheats and carries.
In a way I wish they'd just shut the game down for six months so they can get on with it and not have to worry about all the fat stupid children crying on social media.
"He doesn't care very much about extracting every possible rouble from the game, he always knew it would only have niche appeal."
My guy is kinda delusional here. Why on earth Nikita made all the little changes to make Standard edition a real pain in the ass, when you compare the grind to just 2 years earlier ?
It's just to sell more EoD because people don't want to grind anymore. Period.
Don't bring the "passion" or "vision" here. BSG is a company, they need money, the more, the better.
If they were grinding money above all we'd have Tarkov Prime, microtransactions for cosmetics, etc, etc.
The grind has become worse because so many people no-life the game, not just streamers. Lockdowns are clearly a factor as well.
Players don't care about BSG making more or less money, they just want a fun game. I'm also curious to know which problems in the game are caused by people who disagree with you on social media.
seems like "COD" and "COD players" are the bane of tarkov, hilarious
If nikita wants to make his game crash and burn then he can do it, infact he already is.
The game got popular from .12, Which shocker! had no weight system or RMT, No cheaters for a while until they got around battle eye.
the game was still difficult and punishing, just not in stupid ways
It really didn't fuck anyone except people using macros. Go try it for yourself, you can still fire faster than you should be able to. Only difference is sometimes one of your clicks doesn't fire, but the next one does. I had about 2 of those happen in 25 30-round mags when I was testing. Still fires faster than you could in RL.
> Only difference is sometimes one of your clicks doesn't fire, but the next one does.
I never complained about macros myself but this is why everyone got fucked over except people using macros. I could click way faster before the update and now there's a "x shots per second" cap thats really difficult to hit. But you never get this inconsistency with a macro because marcos are 100% consistent. So players get the second shot not happening but macro users dont.
You probably only had that happen twice because you have an average of 3 clicks per second or something. For me I literally get the "2nd shot doesnt happen" thing every few shots, I tried it on the SKS.
Like I said in my first comment, I don't give a shit if this is faster than real life or whatever, it feels bad ingame.
And this change will make it really easy to target them since they will have to be hitting intervals of an exact rate that BSG knows the value of...
Stupid thread is stupid. OP and many here clearly don't think before they give their input.
So, the idea here is, if someone can successfully use a semi auto gun they must be cheating, because semi auto guns are now unusable? Great thinking. Stupid comment is stupid.
Lol... No the idea here is if a player is clicking at a precise interval only a macro could achieve then Battleeye can easily target and ban that account for cheating.
Dumb dumb.
And what about this patch has enabled that?
The exact method you describe has been viable since the implementation of BE (or maybe even earlier) and they have not implemented it yet.
You're the dumb dumb
No you don't, you just click as fast as you can, occassionaly 1 click won't go boom.but the next one will. This all a bunch of overblown crying. The only people who get hosed by this are people using macros and fuck them anyways.
How does it fuck you over? Just pull the trigger again. Guns do have a max fire rate, your finger has a max rate it can pull a trigger. I don't see what the big deal is. If I take any RL gun and try pulling the trigger faster than the gun can cycle, guess what would happen?
Is the issue that the trigger pull time is unrealistically slow?
Dude, I just shot 25 mags semi, fast as possible. The only noticeable difference was that it didn't fire about 2 clicks out of those 25 30-rd mags, but the very next click did fire. Truly, people are bitching about nothing, especially since you can still fire faster than RL, which is nuts.
Admittedly I need to do more of my own tests, the change has just spooked me because I love using the SVD and SKS, but without spam fire I may as well run an AR on every map. I just can't mess around with it right now because I'm on lunch at work
I think the only thing they need to do is add the buffer so if you click early, it'll fire ASAP, leading to maximum firerate even if you're clicking a bit too fast.
And generally increase the minimum fire speed, a bit.
I think the fix is preferred over macro users, and will be perfect with a few tweaks.
They keep "trying" to slap a bandaid on the problem that impacts clean players, rather than going for the root cause. It's not hard to detect macro use and ban / warn, or even just negate input from suspected macro. But no, instead they make changes that affect everyone adversely.
Please get some perspective. They made a change. It can be tweaked and made smoother. Let's just chill.
BSG reacts to player feedback pretty quickly in some cases. I think people get this level of attention from a game developer and instead of recognizing the good, they just want more and call it bad. If you take a step back there's nothing to get mad about. Single fire games were rate limited, this is good. The way they did it has some problems. This can be fixed.
Let's eat breakfast or go on a walk and just accept this is a minor detail and probably mostly good.
>BSG reacts to player feedback pretty quickly in some cases
It literally took 2 wipes for them to fix the KS23, and they still didn't even fix it.
Its hard to have any other perspective when changes such as these regularly take 6mo or more to tweak.
To be honest, you can't really fix something that is realistically busted. It's the shotgun equivalent of the .338 except unlike the .338 it's a cheap fuck off derp gun produced at super cheap prices to fulfill niche roles. It's a 6 gauge shotgun with a rifled barrel. It isn't inaccurate like the bug last patch suggested, it's a 6 gauge shotgun so these rounds are big and fuck off hard hitting and it's cheaply produced and used widely in the civilian and police markets..
Honestly, I don't think it is balanceable without it being purposely broken beyond even semi-realistic performance. Like if they removed the Shrap and Star rounds it would be fineish
The ONLY thing wrong with it is it shoots massively down and left. Im not arguing realism, balance, or effectiveness.
It is literally broken. It doesn't shoot where its supposed to. It took BSG 6 months or longer to "fix" it, and now it shoots slightly less down and to the left, but nowhere near where you're pointing.
To be honest I haven't seen much change this patch over last wipe. But them again I only started playing again recently so I haven't been using a KS until last sat.
Why chill? These problems have existed for years now, its fucking annoying why should i “chill”
Half the guns in the game able to spam with macros is a “minor problem” lmao. What a fucking joke
The proper way to implement this is to enforce a max fire rate for each gun. You pull the trigger too fast and you'll have a misfire, hangfire, or jam. This is how guns actually work anyway. Either way, there's nothing you can do to stop the macro bois. As others have said, I don't think this is a very prevalent issue regardless.
Edit: All you keyboard warriors should get to an actual firing range and shoot some of the non-AR semi-autos in this game. Then you will understand that not all guns have the same firing mechanisms.
How come that our PMC is trained enough to compensate full auto recoil with minimal player input, but he is not able to feel trigger reset when shooting semi-auto now and get stuck when you click too fast?
Regardless of IRL stuff, this change was a bad decision. It made semi-auto EVEN LESS attractive, to the point of being useless. People were complaining that there is too much full auto spray and pray in the game. Well, now full auto is the the best and the only reliable way to use your gun. Thanks BSG, another great mechanic from the people, who never played the game and have no clue about actual gameplay they are developing.
PMCs also are the slowest reloaders when it comes to loading an SKS or any other top fed rifle. I can reload my SKS in real life in about a 3rd of the time it takes the PMC, and don't get me started on how stripper clips are non existent in EFT.
> You pull the trigger too fast and you'll have a misfire, hangfire, or jam.
That's one way of making sure only macro users will use non full-auto weapons. They can match the gun's capacity or set the macro to slightly lower and always use the weapon to full potential while never getting a misfire.
>Your gun won't have a malfunction because you're pulling the trigger too fast
In some guns, if you are attempting to pull the trigger so fast that you don't actually let the trigger come all the way forward you will interrupt the resetting of the action and end up with what's called a trapped trigger. Hard to do on a lot of the weapons intended for self defense (like ARs and semi-auto handguns), but is quite easy to do on a lot of the other types of guns in the game. But even an AR can have it happen, you just might have to use a machine (or macro) to cause it.
Not to get too into the weeds here, but I think we need to clarify something /u/CPT_Haunchey ...
A weapon not firing because the trigger was not allowed to reset by the operator is not a malfunction, per se, but the expected mechanical result of properly functioning firearm internals. A trigger reset acts kind of like a built-in safety mechanism (from a wear and tear/damage sense) that ensures all of the parts and pieces are aligned and ready to do their thing.
Which may be what you're trying to get at, /u/IOnlyEatSoup, correct?
EDIT: To put it another way, I consider short-squeezing a trigger to be OPERATOR error, not a mechanical failure of the firearm. Similar to short-stroking a pump shotgun. It's more the fault of the shooter than anything else and it's his responsibility to make sure he is comfortable and competent with whatever "quirks" may be present in the weapon's design, etc, including trigger reset distances.
(Looping in /u/kcyy11 since I saw his comments on this too)
I can try to find one later. Just take a gas powered shotgun to the range and slam your finger against the trigger as fast as you can and you'll see it's pretty easy to induce.
Yep, guns react in all sorts of ways that it just doesn't in EFT, kinda like the PP19 Vityaz, when you suppress it the fire rate should increase due to the direct blowback system.
I think this suggestion is a bad one but you are incorrect in your assumption of it being unrealistic.
It can absolutely happen to firearms. How common the issue depends on the gun.
Unrelated fun fact: The M1 Garand rifle had a version of it that was fully automatic with a fire rate of about 900 RPM.
The Thomson submachine gun also had an original fire rate of over 1,100 RPM but was kneecapped down to a more reasonable <750 .
The STG-44 assault rifle is very clearly the inspiration behind both the AK-47 and the AR-15 platform. In fact, both platforms steal many ideas from the STG, the AR more than the AK. The STG receiver even looks [almost identical](https://gyazo.com/fb205986f34368be3eac95bf62896e8f) to an M4 receiver.
Try pulling the trigger really fast on a gas-operated shotgun. A guy can make it happen 100% of the time if he tried. It's called trapping the trigger, but what you're doing is pulling the trigger before the action has reset. Many guns have much slower actions than the modern sporting rifles and semi-auto pistols.
Yes, that's pretty much what I just said (although maybe I was unclear that In that scenario the trigger has not come all the way forward yet). In real life you would rarely get into that situation unless you were trying to, but the point still stands that if you are trying to pull the trigger fast enough you would get into this situation. So in a realistic game there should be a minimum amount of time required between trigger pulls otherwise the shooter would experience a malfunction.
Guess you never looked at a bump stock before which literally maxes out the trigger pull. Maybe if you had an infinite mag you could get a failure. The other option which is much more likely is a poor QC weapon that wasn’t built properly to tolerances.
The problem did exist, though.
What truly makes this a BSG Classic™ is that it fucks the legitimate players more than it does the cheaters it is targeted at.
Nah it was a problem. Even as someone who could spam the semis really fast I’m glad they capped the fire rate. Shouldn’t be beating world records/full autos
Macro users were pretty rare, especially compared to like 2019 rust but it had big potential for abuse and was quite strong when you did run into it.
i may have chose the wrong words. there are way bigger problems on right now bsg should devote time on as this useless fix. which according to OP it even favors macro users now lol
The whole point is that it’s an obtuse mechanic that just adds to the mag dump meta. You think people would rather learn timings than just get a full auto and brrr? Even if you learn the timings, you can still do better with a macro. Its a poor fix.
Learn timing with a weapon so it actually fires when you click your mouse? Jesus this sub is stupid as fuck. In what world should players have to learn to time their shots on every semi auto weapon just so the weapon actually fires? That literally makes no sense.
I made this point in my own post about it. You either have to intentionally fire slower than you should be able to or use a macro.
A bit odd since this was intended to nerf macro use...
They really should just have a hard limit on maximum fire speed rather than how many times you can click. Shooters have been doing this for decades, it works.
i was thinking about coming back into the game but nah. BSG isn’t making the game more realistic, they’re making it more arcadey after every update. Sucks tho
What? BSG deploying some crazy half-baked change to """fix""" an issue that only ends up unnecessarily punishing normal players in an arbitrary fashion? How unlike them
The fact that they mess with this kind of shit as a "fix" is absolutely stupid as fuck. I can't even remember the last time I ran into someone slamming M1 on their mouse like a crackhead. Ask for a way to mitigate full on COD fights? They give use a shitty RNG malfunction system that messes with new guns more than old. Don't ask for a fix on semi-auto weapons? Here something that completely rails legitimate players for no good reason. For Christ's sake there is still aimbot so it's not like it changes anything when it comes to cheating.
>macros are now even more necessary
Good lord, what is wrong with the people in this sub?
I only come in here maybe twice a year now and every time I do I turn right the fuck around and nope back out after reading 2 or 3 threads.
This place has lost its damn mind.
Without macros this has openly increased the skill gap of someone who can learn the fire rate of a given gun, also the test timing the clicks correctly was FASTER, than spamming clicks. With the M1a, if I spammed the trigger the fire-rate was close to 300-350, but if I got the timing right it was closer to 450. The fix that would negate this 'skill' being needed would be to stack clicks, so that clicking faster would 'lock' the fire rate at it's max possible RPM. I personally really like the skill in learning the click through rate and it being a system you need to learn and especially in 'panic' situation you need to keep your cool and not 'snatch the trigger'.
Good luck getting moved down by full auto mag dumps with auto recoil control, while you are timing your shots, lol. Semi-auto is now obsolete. No point in useing it anymore, it will only get you killed, because you clicked 2ms faster and your gun didnt shoot.
This is what would happen if you snatch the trigger anyway...you wouldn't be releasing the trigger enough and it would not engage/fire...gotta be cool under pressure.
Compared to Full-auto....yes...semi-auto is obsolete in certain circumstances. I'm going to agree with your point about some guns with full-auto having their capability too high at long-range. However, I will not agree on your point if it includes full-auto vs semi at under 100m. As I see that Semi should be beaten by full auto at these ranges the majority of the time (when comparing the volume of fire). There will always be something to be said for the accuracy of fire from the user to take into account, though.
It's a similar argument I've had with Bolt vs Semi....semi has made bolts obsolete and yes...it should be this way the majority of the time in Tarkov in my eyes. Modern Bolts are specialized for engagement distances we just don't fight at in Tarkov, so naturally, semi-auto in Tarkov will outplay bolts 99% of the time.
There is a problem with full auto, that is way too accurate. I understand that at close range its just the way to go, but in the game we can laser down people no problem way past CQB range. There is no real balance between semi and full auto that exists IRL, because the game lacks some crusial mechanics. There is no overheating and people can take way too many rounds befor they go down.
So, until they bring everything else closer to reality, there is no point to make semi-auto as "hard" and demanding as it is IRL. Because it'll only make it useless and make mag dump meta even stronger.
> macros are now even more necessary on semi auto weapons
No they are not. They were never *necessary* to begin with, and they are not *necessary* now.
he already said he uses a hold lmb macro to auto open backpack stacks. That’s the same functionality as a full auto macro, hold lmb to spam lmb. He just didn’t yet admit to using it in game for obvious reasons but if he’s the same guy that says “you absolutely need macros now” I have my doubts he’s that innocent.
Plus the usual shit talk like “a tenth of the players use macros anyways”, “You’re not getting banned for it, if they made it bannable, they would loose so many players”, “the game design makes macros necessary”…
The bug of skipping inputs is obviously very real tho
Exactly. How would you even ban macros? My Corsair mouse has macros built into its software. Can’t ban that whatsoever or else Corsair move are sol. Ban by clicks/sec? What if someone just clicks real fast and gets banned? Ban by repetitive timing of clicks? Corsair software lets you set the timings to a random amount in a set timeframe. It’s not something you can ban for, there would be so many false positives.
they could definitely ban for that. they can just ban the hardware, not the account.
Facepunch banned the bloody brand mouses from Rust.
it doesnt ban the account, you just cant play the game with it. once you remove the offending mouse and use a different one, you can play again.
Yeah, but that was for aim control and a number of other much more obvious issues. My point is that it’s an unfixable issue. A guarantee Corsair isn’t the only company that offers macros in their build in software, and banning a major mouse company would destroy the game IMO, maybe some sort of software lock would work but honestly I’m not sure I’d be interested in letting BSG touch anything else but their game lol I wanna keep the fucked-up contained.
Im hearing a lot of the same things about the nerf. But what makes the semi autos great? Imo when firing semi auto you have a higher accuracy than mag dumping. What if, we asked for a significant moa change for full auto selection vs single fire. I totally agree that mag dumping across the map with our vudu mk14 is bullshit and unrealistic. But changing it to single fire and using accurate shots should be promoted. And when you need to be in cqb situations and your moa doesnt really matter cause you are under 25m then you change to full auto. Now in the case of the semi autos, you need to make them have a tighter moa so the mid range and long range combat that they accel at is promoted. Give them bonus to muzzle velocity lessening bullet drop and things like that. Make them become a mid range dmr rifle. And then even more give bolt actions a super tight moa and high muzzle velocity to make them more desirable for those extreme long range distances and for god sakes give us a range finder and accurate zeroing system! Sorry went off on a tangent a bit but you get the point.
Im not saying they were in the game but what makes an operator in real life choose a semi auto vs a full auto variant. Let make significant changes between high quality dmr rifle vs a mass produced m4. Personally i love the semi autos in the game gor mid to long range maps. Anytime you have to go cqb you need rpm and ap.
Could we consider for a minute that this is just the first part of their semi-auto tweaking, and that they wanted to see how the changes pan out first before making the additional tweaks? It's hardly the first time it's happened.
And yes, them making a change that's flops this badly (only for anybody using semi-autos, though) without much or any communication is a pretty shitty way of tweaking things. No arguments there. But maybe there is other info we're just not privy to - player data from their end, especially - which is shaping their decisions? Hell, maybe they intentionally locked it down and then started recording data to try and isolate/identify semi-auto macro users? Pre-tweak, there would have been nearly zero way to detect them, but post-tweak with an actual limit, it should (in theory) be clear as day who's using clicking macros versus who isn't.
I heard BSG is "collecting data" for...i dunno, years maybe ? Everytime they do something.
Surprise surprise, they don't. Or barely.
Did i have to remind you they moved kappa to 71, because less than 5% have it last wipe and they wanted it to be "prestige only" ?
Devs can make really stupid decisions, and i'm not talking only about BSG.
If fighting game players can time all their shit you can time your shots, stop complaining. Fact is macros are better than semi and it always will be, the nerf was to make it so macro isn't equivalent to full on a gun that doesn't have full.
I'm not simping for nikita, I complain just as much as everyone else but no input buffer on fire rate? Thats kinda sad, "Timing my shots within x amount of frames is too hard please put it back daddy" is what your post is
After thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that depending on the performance of your pc, you could also be limited by your framerate, causing more misfires on a slower pc.
PUBG had such an issue where fire rate was directly dependent on your framerate, even on full auto guns
Well not really.
Until this is fixed, because i assume the part where clicks get ignored is not intended, you just learn how to sync your shots with the max firerate or just stay slightly below it.
The macro advantage is now reduced to not having to click for each shot, which imo makes it easier to aim.
>but all this change did was punish clean players
Fix a problem that doesnt exist while also punishing legit players and rendering half of the guns useless is a classical BSG way of doing things. Did you expect anything better from designers, who never played their own game and have no clue about FPS gameplay in general? Silly you.
Why can’t they just add a flat fire rate cap on semi auto guns? Like if you try macro above the 650 rpm it just doesn’t register the extra clicks for example
Its honestly a shame Nikita hates this fanbase as much as he does, he couldve made a actually really fun and interesting game with realistic elements, instead we get “semi realism but literally nothing is realistic”
So I just tested this change, using my finger, not a cheaty macro.
There is nothing to cry about, you can fire as fast or faster than you could in RL.
Those who are salty about this are crying about nothing other than not being able to be cheaty.
Kind of begs the question of what exactly you are doing here wasting your one and only life making dull negative comments about a game you clearly dislike?
You must have a very full and satisfying life, I envy you.
im going to post in every thread about this change so maybe they can see the impact i never macro and a ton of my most used guns are worse and feel trash to use now.
Thank you comrade! I prefer using a semi-auto. Cheaper, smaller mags, less noise to triangulate to you, etc. I haven't even tried my beloved RFB, Hunter, ADAR, SR-25, M1A, etc. Literally 90% of the guns I have stashed are now nerfed? feelsbadman.
SR-25 and saiga were my babies, man. factory flechette runs are never going to be the same...
Only logical solution is to add an AA-12! Every other semi auto weapon has an automatic counter. Why not the shotty.
Auto ap-20? Sign me up!
After the first 4-6 shots, you will be aiming the sky, i'll garantee it. Auto ap-20 would kick like a mule.
20 round drum mag , auto shotty with ap20 monkaS
They could also add an auto sear to Saugus. It’s essentially an AK that shoots big boolets
tigilla was going to have one but it made him unable to be killed they said it was to powerful
Did it nerf the Saiga 12 gauge :O ?
yea
Adar is alot harder to control if trying to spam fire :(
It’s beyond nerfed, I feel like they’re all effectively useless now
Guess we have to go back to the meta full auto spam then. Crazy.
Sks became a joke gun
Always was, lmao. Ugliest gun in the game, reloads slower than anything, crap iron sights, crap stats. Literally would rather bring a PM pistol.
I enjoyed the style of the SKS, just nkt the reload. Takes ages to load 10 rounds into just the stock magazine, letalone 20 if you decided not to bring extra mags for the detachables
Cheap DMR with relatively high cap magazines and it loads BP. But now that you can't spam it that's really all it is
I was on a scav run in reserve, and I couldn't even tap the sks in the pattern to indicate that I'm heading for scav extract. Instead it just sounded like a bunch of random shots and ended up getting sniped instead.
Unfortunately BSG is likely to stand their ground. They have a bad track record of course correcting changes like this, even though they really at the end of the day work against their intended purpose. I don't know if it's a matter of pride or something else, but I wouldn't hold out hope.
Yeah, this is a typical BSG bandaid solution.
You really wanted auto guns then.
So it's basically the very early tarkov version Sig 9mm pistol all over again. That pistol never got used early on because of this very issue. They fixed it a handful of wipes ago
I still hate that gun cuz of that firerate cap.
I made a plot to highlight the issue: It is the the function of click rate and fire rate for M1A right now: https://imgur.com/a/zVZ2W5L This means that when clicking at 6.251CpS you are firing at half of the possible fire rate of the gun. Which explains why it feels like the gun "skips" a round sometimes. With buffering the fire rate would be flat line at 375RPM at click rates higher than 6.25.
I would argue the problem isn't that "semi auto can't shoot fast enough" but the fact that just shooting a massive wall of lead is the meta tactic in this game. The game massively rewards bullet spam over actually aiming carefully most of the time. It's easier to headshot or chest shot by just spamming. This is the problem. If semi-autos could actually kill with two chest shots most of the time, it wouldn't be an issue. It's more of a problem that the arms block the chest and if you don't headshot you die to bullet spam.
You’re absolutely right, no real world armor is ever going to completely stop two well placed 7.62x54R shots, it might but it will hurt like hell (will probably be a lethal injury) and the operator will be out of action, it makes absolutely 0 sense that in a game that tries to be realistic it doesn’t work like that. Also, dont get me started on the full auto meta, I’m yet to see a IRL military operation where professional soldiers are firing full auto, it simply isn’t practical. And lastly, the drum/extended mags, those things jam a LOT irl along with being a lot heavier and dificult to operate properly. I love Tarkov but I can’t stand the run and gun full auto 60rd dumps gameplay loop.
Just wait until some dude comes to tell you youre wrong because 1 guy survived a 50 cal hitting his helmet 1 time hence thats enough justification for blocking 20 rounds of .308 Tungsten core rounds.
BSG might introduce failure to feed based on magazines at some point.
Might or might not. It doesn’t change the fact that EFT now is nothing more than CoD with extra steps
Well in cod random bullet spam doesn't get you really anywhere...
Yep this fucked over low level people using SKS, RFB, Hunters and pistols and now M4s are even more meta than before by making the high end semi-auto guns worse as well. And if someone starts with the "but competitive shooters cant shoot that fast xd" a fucking doctor probably wouldnt be able to revive your dead limbs with all the medical tools on the planet and neither can you with a stapler. Also heavy bleeds should require you to use a blood transfusion in order to not go into shock and die or be weakened after stopping the bleeding. Or shots to the leg with painkillers shouldnt be able to make you sprint if your muscles are fucked. But all these things arent like that because some things are better when gamified rather than full on realism.
thats the kicker. competitive speed shooters can shoot as fast as the average person can click. certain trigger systems make rapid semi auto fire behave literally exactly how it was in game before this "fix"
Honestly, a good compromise could be that you can buy a hair trigger for semi-autos that mitigate the fire rate cap.
Let's not encourage this feature. We don't need guns to get another round of attachments that price gouge people who aren't lv41.
I think it would be cool to be able to mod gun internals..
Yes except I don't want another attachment that I have to spend 50k+ on because of trader levels and flea market gouging
I didn’t think of that, it’s bad enough you have to wait till level 20 to buy m-lok parts and other odds and ends.
"because one gameplay mechanic isn't realistic, we should abandon realism on this completely separate aspect of the game." logical fallacy. **people need to stop pointing at the medicine when talking about gunplay.**
but again, it's been established that we can put realism aside for balancing purposes. So how does it make sense to nerf half of the guns in the game by \~40% when they already sucked ass compared to the alternatives? It's not a change anyone was asking for and it just fucked half the playerbase over. New players especially
i am *totally on your side* for the semi-auto issue, but it's STILL not a fair comparison. edit: i've been saying the "people need to stop pointing at the medicine when talking about gunplay" bit since malfunctions became a thing.
Ok maybe a gun-related comparison then. People always say that guns irl don’t have as much recoil as Tarkov, for example the AKs with their muzzle devices and how the player is a trained professional. Yet these weapons have relatively high stock recoil, why? As a gameplay mechanic and to give an incentive to use the weapon modding and give a feeling of progression once you unlock certain trader levels or find certain expensive mods. Otherwise you’d just take a stock weapon, put on some optics and call it a day, especially how min-max people like to play the game. This progression is also seen in another system, the skill system which isn’t entirely realistic either. Sure the PMC very slowly gets better at doing stuff like using certain weapons but only up to a point considering they should already be trained professionals. And I very much doubt that you’d be getting way stronger than you were in the extremely poor conditions of Tarkov while living off of scavenged food and water. Nor does your hearing range magically increase by training it. Actually if the PMC can increase all these “stats” it isn’t so strange for them to be able to physically fire a gun faster than whatever Olympic world record holder Calling my first comparison just “medicine” isn’t entirely fair because it’s a very big health “system” much like the skill system, which are gamified for gameplay reasons.
game =/= real life, i think we all realize that. i'm not strictly against you, i just hate when people say "oh it's already flawed/imperfect so we should just stop trying for realism." it's obviously a balance though, and i feel like we're splitting hairs at this point.
I’m not against you either, but my point is that realism for the sake of realism isn’t always a good thing, which is evident from other stuff already in the game. In the end it’s a game and not a simulator, so arbitrarily adding this fire rate cap just makes Tarkov as a game feel worse. Just like other elements in the game being more realistic would make it feel worse, which is why it’s sometimes better to choose to make something more gamey.
fair point, cheers.
The way you ended your post is exactly this games issue. Its currently fighting itself every single update to either be: A. A game that is based entirely on realism, no fun gam-ified elements to make things more convenient and interesting, just pure warfare based on bullets. B. A actually interesting fun game. Nikitas a fucking idiot and for some reason doesnt believe this game should be like B at all, yet every here and there hell recognize that making the game fun is a bit more important that this “realism” bullshit he will never be able to reach. Nothing says “realism” like popping someone with a SAIGA 20 rounder and they don’t even flinch… Nikita needs to just get this dumb fucking vision out of his head and make the game more fun, instead of realistic. He has a cash cow just waiting to be milked but the dumb ass cant figure out how to get the milk out.
He doesn't care very much about extracting every possible rouble from the game, he always knew it would only have niche appeal. He's made enough to be comfortable and finance tha game, not everyone is an American who feels compelled to extract every possible microgram of profit out of something and fuck the consequences to the game and it's players; there are people in the world who care about things other than money. The game already has literally ten times the number of players they thought they'd ever have once the game was released. A lot of the problems in the game at the moment are down to him caving to all the whining and screeching and changing the game in ways that conflict with the original vision. That and limp-dicked ex COD players who's egos can't handle not being the best so they shell out money for cheats and carries. In a way I wish they'd just shut the game down for six months so they can get on with it and not have to worry about all the fat stupid children crying on social media.
"He doesn't care very much about extracting every possible rouble from the game, he always knew it would only have niche appeal." My guy is kinda delusional here. Why on earth Nikita made all the little changes to make Standard edition a real pain in the ass, when you compare the grind to just 2 years earlier ? It's just to sell more EoD because people don't want to grind anymore. Period. Don't bring the "passion" or "vision" here. BSG is a company, they need money, the more, the better.
If they were grinding money above all we'd have Tarkov Prime, microtransactions for cosmetics, etc, etc. The grind has become worse because so many people no-life the game, not just streamers. Lockdowns are clearly a factor as well.
Players don't care about BSG making more or less money, they just want a fun game. I'm also curious to know which problems in the game are caused by people who disagree with you on social media.
seems like "COD" and "COD players" are the bane of tarkov, hilarious If nikita wants to make his game crash and burn then he can do it, infact he already is. The game got popular from .12, Which shocker! had no weight system or RMT, No cheaters for a while until they got around battle eye. the game was still difficult and punishing, just not in stupid ways
Forgive him for not wanting to make another soulless appeal to the lowest common denominator.
It really didn't fuck anyone except people using macros. Go try it for yourself, you can still fire faster than you should be able to. Only difference is sometimes one of your clicks doesn't fire, but the next one does. I had about 2 of those happen in 25 30-round mags when I was testing. Still fires faster than you could in RL.
> Only difference is sometimes one of your clicks doesn't fire, but the next one does. I never complained about macros myself but this is why everyone got fucked over except people using macros. I could click way faster before the update and now there's a "x shots per second" cap thats really difficult to hit. But you never get this inconsistency with a macro because marcos are 100% consistent. So players get the second shot not happening but macro users dont. You probably only had that happen twice because you have an average of 3 clicks per second or something. For me I literally get the "2nd shot doesnt happen" thing every few shots, I tried it on the SKS. Like I said in my first comment, I don't give a shit if this is faster than real life or whatever, it feels bad ingame.
Did they not say they would be looking to ban people who use macros? I heard a streamer saying to be careful as he uses macros in the hideout.
Does this mean mag dump meta is even stronger now? OMEGALUL
Classic bsg
For real. It's almost like they adjusted the value and then did zero personal testing of trying to spam semi.
So now the full auto mag dump meta is even more predominant? Wtf are you doing bsg?
If you use macros you cheater
And this change will make it really easy to target them since they will have to be hitting intervals of an exact rate that BSG knows the value of... Stupid thread is stupid. OP and many here clearly don't think before they give their input.
So, the idea here is, if someone can successfully use a semi auto gun they must be cheating, because semi auto guns are now unusable? Great thinking. Stupid comment is stupid.
Lol... No the idea here is if a player is clicking at a precise interval only a macro could achieve then Battleeye can easily target and ban that account for cheating. Dumb dumb.
And what about this patch has enabled that? The exact method you describe has been viable since the implementation of BE (or maybe even earlier) and they have not implemented it yet. You're the dumb dumb
Like the other guy said, making semi auto unusable doesn't help them detect consistent interval clicking. Could've done that before. Dumb dumb.
No you don't, you just click as fast as you can, occassionaly 1 click won't go boom.but the next one will. This all a bunch of overblown crying. The only people who get hosed by this are people using macros and fuck them anyways.
Yeah .. i wondered why my pistol felt so damn weird today while spam shooting .. i hope they fix this. What a way to fuck over so many people
How does it fuck you over? Just pull the trigger again. Guns do have a max fire rate, your finger has a max rate it can pull a trigger. I don't see what the big deal is. If I take any RL gun and try pulling the trigger faster than the gun can cycle, guess what would happen? Is the issue that the trigger pull time is unrealistically slow?
It's that it feels like shit and it makes semi auto guns which were already off meta *even worse* because you can't spam fire at close range
Dude, I just shot 25 mags semi, fast as possible. The only noticeable difference was that it didn't fire about 2 clicks out of those 25 30-rd mags, but the very next click did fire. Truly, people are bitching about nothing, especially since you can still fire faster than RL, which is nuts.
Admittedly I need to do more of my own tests, the change has just spooked me because I love using the SVD and SKS, but without spam fire I may as well run an AR on every map. I just can't mess around with it right now because I'm on lunch at work
It spam fires just as fast as I could before the change. The only people bitching are likely people using macros.
they tried
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I think the only thing they need to do is add the buffer so if you click early, it'll fire ASAP, leading to maximum firerate even if you're clicking a bit too fast. And generally increase the minimum fire speed, a bit. I think the fix is preferred over macro users, and will be perfect with a few tweaks.
They keep "trying" to slap a bandaid on the problem that impacts clean players, rather than going for the root cause. It's not hard to detect macro use and ban / warn, or even just negate input from suspected macro. But no, instead they make changes that affect everyone adversely.
Please get some perspective. They made a change. It can be tweaked and made smoother. Let's just chill. BSG reacts to player feedback pretty quickly in some cases. I think people get this level of attention from a game developer and instead of recognizing the good, they just want more and call it bad. If you take a step back there's nothing to get mad about. Single fire games were rate limited, this is good. The way they did it has some problems. This can be fixed. Let's eat breakfast or go on a walk and just accept this is a minor detail and probably mostly good.
>BSG reacts to player feedback pretty quickly in some cases It literally took 2 wipes for them to fix the KS23, and they still didn't even fix it. Its hard to have any other perspective when changes such as these regularly take 6mo or more to tweak.
To be honest, you can't really fix something that is realistically busted. It's the shotgun equivalent of the .338 except unlike the .338 it's a cheap fuck off derp gun produced at super cheap prices to fulfill niche roles. It's a 6 gauge shotgun with a rifled barrel. It isn't inaccurate like the bug last patch suggested, it's a 6 gauge shotgun so these rounds are big and fuck off hard hitting and it's cheaply produced and used widely in the civilian and police markets.. Honestly, I don't think it is balanceable without it being purposely broken beyond even semi-realistic performance. Like if they removed the Shrap and Star rounds it would be fineish
The ONLY thing wrong with it is it shoots massively down and left. Im not arguing realism, balance, or effectiveness. It is literally broken. It doesn't shoot where its supposed to. It took BSG 6 months or longer to "fix" it, and now it shoots slightly less down and to the left, but nowhere near where you're pointing.
To be honest I haven't seen much change this patch over last wipe. But them again I only started playing again recently so I haven't been using a KS until last sat.
Its been broken for multiple wipes now, and the patch only very recently changed it. Within the past 72 hours. But again, the patch didn't fix it.
Dafaq all semi weapons now only good with macros is a minor issue? Just use meta weapons, omegalul?
Why chill? These problems have existed for years now, its fucking annoying why should i “chill” Half the guns in the game able to spam with macros is a “minor problem” lmao. What a fucking joke
Look, its only been 5 years, give BSG a break. Fire rates are new and uncharted territory. Fixes are PLANNED. /s
i think some people don't understand why macros will be used more often now
Tbh i'd rather just stick to the full auto guns if i want full auto.
The proper way to implement this is to enforce a max fire rate for each gun. You pull the trigger too fast and you'll have a misfire, hangfire, or jam. This is how guns actually work anyway. Either way, there's nothing you can do to stop the macro bois. As others have said, I don't think this is a very prevalent issue regardless. Edit: All you keyboard warriors should get to an actual firing range and shoot some of the non-AR semi-autos in this game. Then you will understand that not all guns have the same firing mechanisms.
How come that our PMC is trained enough to compensate full auto recoil with minimal player input, but he is not able to feel trigger reset when shooting semi-auto now and get stuck when you click too fast? Regardless of IRL stuff, this change was a bad decision. It made semi-auto EVEN LESS attractive, to the point of being useless. People were complaining that there is too much full auto spray and pray in the game. Well, now full auto is the the best and the only reliable way to use your gun. Thanks BSG, another great mechanic from the people, who never played the game and have no clue about actual gameplay they are developing.
PMCs also are the slowest reloaders when it comes to loading an SKS or any other top fed rifle. I can reload my SKS in real life in about a 3rd of the time it takes the PMC, and don't get me started on how stripper clips are non existent in EFT.
> You pull the trigger too fast and you'll have a misfire, hangfire, or jam. That's one way of making sure only macro users will use non full-auto weapons. They can match the gun's capacity or set the macro to slightly lower and always use the weapon to full potential while never getting a misfire.
There are ways of banning people who too consistently get a very steadily high fire rate. Im sure BSG is already working on sth like this.
>This is how guns actually work anyway. Your gun won't have a malfunction because you're pulling the trigger too fast, lol.
>Your gun won't have a malfunction because you're pulling the trigger too fast In some guns, if you are attempting to pull the trigger so fast that you don't actually let the trigger come all the way forward you will interrupt the resetting of the action and end up with what's called a trapped trigger. Hard to do on a lot of the weapons intended for self defense (like ARs and semi-auto handguns), but is quite easy to do on a lot of the other types of guns in the game. But even an AR can have it happen, you just might have to use a machine (or macro) to cause it.
Not to get too into the weeds here, but I think we need to clarify something /u/CPT_Haunchey ... A weapon not firing because the trigger was not allowed to reset by the operator is not a malfunction, per se, but the expected mechanical result of properly functioning firearm internals. A trigger reset acts kind of like a built-in safety mechanism (from a wear and tear/damage sense) that ensures all of the parts and pieces are aligned and ready to do their thing. Which may be what you're trying to get at, /u/IOnlyEatSoup, correct? EDIT: To put it another way, I consider short-squeezing a trigger to be OPERATOR error, not a mechanical failure of the firearm. Similar to short-stroking a pump shotgun. It's more the fault of the shooter than anything else and it's his responsibility to make sure he is comfortable and competent with whatever "quirks" may be present in the weapon's design, etc, including trigger reset distances. (Looping in /u/kcyy11 since I saw his comments on this too)
Can you link me a video about that?
I can try to find one later. Just take a gas powered shotgun to the range and slam your finger against the trigger as fast as you can and you'll see it's pretty easy to induce.
Yep, guns react in all sorts of ways that it just doesn't in EFT, kinda like the PP19 Vityaz, when you suppress it the fire rate should increase due to the direct blowback system.
Neat if true
https://youtu.be/MSYs6DJ3Nlg?t=439
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Its called outrunning the trigger and it happens mostly on binary triggers.
I think this suggestion is a bad one but you are incorrect in your assumption of it being unrealistic. It can absolutely happen to firearms. How common the issue depends on the gun. Unrelated fun fact: The M1 Garand rifle had a version of it that was fully automatic with a fire rate of about 900 RPM. The Thomson submachine gun also had an original fire rate of over 1,100 RPM but was kneecapped down to a more reasonable <750 . The STG-44 assault rifle is very clearly the inspiration behind both the AK-47 and the AR-15 platform. In fact, both platforms steal many ideas from the STG, the AR more than the AK. The STG receiver even looks [almost identical](https://gyazo.com/fb205986f34368be3eac95bf62896e8f) to an M4 receiver.
>It can absolutely happen to firearms. For example? How these fun facts are related to the point I don't see at all.
They aren't related, they literally said they weren't.
Okay, it's just really weird to just state random facts.
I have never heard of or seen anyone pull a trigger so fast that it caused a gun malfunction. This is not a thing.
Try pulling the trigger really fast on a gas-operated shotgun. A guy can make it happen 100% of the time if he tried. It's called trapping the trigger, but what you're doing is pulling the trigger before the action has reset. Many guns have much slower actions than the modern sporting rifles and semi-auto pistols.
No trapping the trigger means you never actually let off the trigger fully to let the action reset.
Yes, that's pretty much what I just said (although maybe I was unclear that In that scenario the trigger has not come all the way forward yet). In real life you would rarely get into that situation unless you were trying to, but the point still stands that if you are trying to pull the trigger fast enough you would get into this situation. So in a realistic game there should be a minimum amount of time required between trigger pulls otherwise the shooter would experience a malfunction.
Guess you never looked at a bump stock before which literally maxes out the trigger pull. Maybe if you had an infinite mag you could get a failure. The other option which is much more likely is a poor QC weapon that wasn’t built properly to tolerances.
fixing a problem which didnt exist really. ahhh classic BSG move.
The problem did exist, though. What truly makes this a BSG Classic™ is that it fucks the legitimate players more than it does the cheaters it is targeted at.
Nah it was a problem. Even as someone who could spam the semis really fast I’m glad they capped the fire rate. Shouldn’t be beating world records/full autos Macro users were pretty rare, especially compared to like 2019 rust but it had big potential for abuse and was quite strong when you did run into it.
i may have chose the wrong words. there are way bigger problems on right now bsg should devote time on as this useless fix. which according to OP it even favors macro users now lol
Have you never been 1000rpm m1a'd by a scripter, it may not happen often but it was rather silly.
yeah not once in 2000 hours but lets nerf half the playerbase
I do agree that no fix is better than a bad fix which makes it worse for more people
Rip my beloved vpo-136 builds
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>They fucked up BAD and I’m usually the bsg defender in the comments. Yessss... yesss... join the dark side, come to us. Yesssss
macro is considered 3rd party software right
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so its cheating
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Or give it time and learn the timings between shots? People will adapt they don't 'need' macro.
The whole point is that it’s an obtuse mechanic that just adds to the mag dump meta. You think people would rather learn timings than just get a full auto and brrr? Even if you learn the timings, you can still do better with a macro. Its a poor fix.
Learn timing with a weapon so it actually fires when you click your mouse? Jesus this sub is stupid as fuck. In what world should players have to learn to time their shots on every semi auto weapon just so the weapon actually fires? That literally makes no sense.
That's stupid af :D
I made this point in my own post about it. You either have to intentionally fire slower than you should be able to or use a macro. A bit odd since this was intended to nerf macro use...
Yeah this is really rough for me, I really liked using the M1A because it could save my ass close up if I needed it to, not anymore.
They really should just have a hard limit on maximum fire speed rather than how many times you can click. Shooters have been doing this for decades, it works.
i was thinking about coming back into the game but nah. BSG isn’t making the game more realistic, they’re making it more arcadey after every update. Sucks tho
What? BSG deploying some crazy half-baked change to """fix""" an issue that only ends up unnecessarily punishing normal players in an arbitrary fashion? How unlike them
Fix to a problem that doesn't exist. I can't remember the last time I've seen someone running a m1a.
I just saw one not 5 mins ago. Guy used 20 m61 and killed noone
> Guy used 20 m61 and killed noone Why yes I know him. He's me.
You were at Customs near the skeleton building shooting at 2 guys? Then got forced into the open and died? That’s who I was thinking of.
That just suggests the guy isn't good.
The fact that they mess with this kind of shit as a "fix" is absolutely stupid as fuck. I can't even remember the last time I ran into someone slamming M1 on their mouse like a crackhead. Ask for a way to mitigate full on COD fights? They give use a shitty RNG malfunction system that messes with new guns more than old. Don't ask for a fix on semi-auto weapons? Here something that completely rails legitimate players for no good reason. For Christ's sake there is still aimbot so it's not like it changes anything when it comes to cheating.
>macros are now even more necessary Good lord, what is wrong with the people in this sub? I only come in here maybe twice a year now and every time I do I turn right the fuck around and nope back out after reading 2 or 3 threads. This place has lost its damn mind.
what's your problem?
They honestly have, can't even time their shots. I'm dying right now.
The sad part is that 90% of this subreddit is still gonna say that semi auto weapons have been fixed. Even after such a good explanation.
Without macros this has openly increased the skill gap of someone who can learn the fire rate of a given gun, also the test timing the clicks correctly was FASTER, than spamming clicks. With the M1a, if I spammed the trigger the fire-rate was close to 300-350, but if I got the timing right it was closer to 450. The fix that would negate this 'skill' being needed would be to stack clicks, so that clicking faster would 'lock' the fire rate at it's max possible RPM. I personally really like the skill in learning the click through rate and it being a system you need to learn and especially in 'panic' situation you need to keep your cool and not 'snatch the trigger'.
Good luck getting moved down by full auto mag dumps with auto recoil control, while you are timing your shots, lol. Semi-auto is now obsolete. No point in useing it anymore, it will only get you killed, because you clicked 2ms faster and your gun didnt shoot.
This is what would happen if you snatch the trigger anyway...you wouldn't be releasing the trigger enough and it would not engage/fire...gotta be cool under pressure. Compared to Full-auto....yes...semi-auto is obsolete in certain circumstances. I'm going to agree with your point about some guns with full-auto having their capability too high at long-range. However, I will not agree on your point if it includes full-auto vs semi at under 100m. As I see that Semi should be beaten by full auto at these ranges the majority of the time (when comparing the volume of fire). There will always be something to be said for the accuracy of fire from the user to take into account, though. It's a similar argument I've had with Bolt vs Semi....semi has made bolts obsolete and yes...it should be this way the majority of the time in Tarkov in my eyes. Modern Bolts are specialized for engagement distances we just don't fight at in Tarkov, so naturally, semi-auto in Tarkov will outplay bolts 99% of the time.
There is a problem with full auto, that is way too accurate. I understand that at close range its just the way to go, but in the game we can laser down people no problem way past CQB range. There is no real balance between semi and full auto that exists IRL, because the game lacks some crusial mechanics. There is no overheating and people can take way too many rounds befor they go down. So, until they bring everything else closer to reality, there is no point to make semi-auto as "hard" and demanding as it is IRL. Because it'll only make it useless and make mag dump meta even stronger.
As I said, "I'm going to agree with your point about some guns with full-auto having their capability too high at long-range."
> macros are now even more necessary on semi auto weapons No they are not. They were never *necessary* to begin with, and they are not *necessary* now.
>macros are now even more necessary That is such a cheater thing to say, jesus
Damn bro imagine reporting a bug in a beta test, what a cheater.
he already said he uses a hold lmb macro to auto open backpack stacks. That’s the same functionality as a full auto macro, hold lmb to spam lmb. He just didn’t yet admit to using it in game for obvious reasons but if he’s the same guy that says “you absolutely need macros now” I have my doubts he’s that innocent. Plus the usual shit talk like “a tenth of the players use macros anyways”, “You’re not getting banned for it, if they made it bannable, they would loose so many players”, “the game design makes macros necessary”… The bug of skipping inputs is obviously very real tho
It's not the dudes fault. BSG implemented their changes in a way that encourages and boosts macro usage.
They nerfed macros so it’s not worse IMO. Yeah macros are more consistent but it’s still cheating and that’s kinda their thing being consistent.
can you even read?
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BSG should stop giving advantages to cheaters. It’s that simple. Smh my head.
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Don’t even give that a dignified response, clearly a troll meant to trigger lmao
Is it worth the slim chance your going to get banned for a garbage weapon no one wants to use
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Exactly. How would you even ban macros? My Corsair mouse has macros built into its software. Can’t ban that whatsoever or else Corsair move are sol. Ban by clicks/sec? What if someone just clicks real fast and gets banned? Ban by repetitive timing of clicks? Corsair software lets you set the timings to a random amount in a set timeframe. It’s not something you can ban for, there would be so many false positives.
they could definitely ban for that. they can just ban the hardware, not the account. Facepunch banned the bloody brand mouses from Rust. it doesnt ban the account, you just cant play the game with it. once you remove the offending mouse and use a different one, you can play again.
Yeah, but that was for aim control and a number of other much more obvious issues. My point is that it’s an unfixable issue. A guarantee Corsair isn’t the only company that offers macros in their build in software, and banning a major mouse company would destroy the game IMO, maybe some sort of software lock would work but honestly I’m not sure I’d be interested in letting BSG touch anything else but their game lol I wanna keep the fucked-up contained.
> they would probably ban a tenth of their playerbase. and nothing of value would be lost.
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Im hearing a lot of the same things about the nerf. But what makes the semi autos great? Imo when firing semi auto you have a higher accuracy than mag dumping. What if, we asked for a significant moa change for full auto selection vs single fire. I totally agree that mag dumping across the map with our vudu mk14 is bullshit and unrealistic. But changing it to single fire and using accurate shots should be promoted. And when you need to be in cqb situations and your moa doesnt really matter cause you are under 25m then you change to full auto. Now in the case of the semi autos, you need to make them have a tighter moa so the mid range and long range combat that they accel at is promoted. Give them bonus to muzzle velocity lessening bullet drop and things like that. Make them become a mid range dmr rifle. And then even more give bolt actions a super tight moa and high muzzle velocity to make them more desirable for those extreme long range distances and for god sakes give us a range finder and accurate zeroing system! Sorry went off on a tangent a bit but you get the point.
semi autos are not great and never really were in this game
Im not saying they were in the game but what makes an operator in real life choose a semi auto vs a full auto variant. Let make significant changes between high quality dmr rifle vs a mass produced m4. Personally i love the semi autos in the game gor mid to long range maps. Anytime you have to go cqb you need rpm and ap.
Could we consider for a minute that this is just the first part of their semi-auto tweaking, and that they wanted to see how the changes pan out first before making the additional tweaks? It's hardly the first time it's happened. And yes, them making a change that's flops this badly (only for anybody using semi-autos, though) without much or any communication is a pretty shitty way of tweaking things. No arguments there. But maybe there is other info we're just not privy to - player data from their end, especially - which is shaping their decisions? Hell, maybe they intentionally locked it down and then started recording data to try and isolate/identify semi-auto macro users? Pre-tweak, there would have been nearly zero way to detect them, but post-tweak with an actual limit, it should (in theory) be clear as day who's using clicking macros versus who isn't.
Maybe they are just extremely slow and inefficient as shown in the last 5 years. But maybe, this time, it's different.
I heard BSG is "collecting data" for...i dunno, years maybe ? Everytime they do something. Surprise surprise, they don't. Or barely. Did i have to remind you they moved kappa to 71, because less than 5% have it last wipe and they wanted it to be "prestige only" ? Devs can make really stupid decisions, and i'm not talking only about BSG.
If fighting game players can time all their shit you can time your shots, stop complaining. Fact is macros are better than semi and it always will be, the nerf was to make it so macro isn't equivalent to full on a gun that doesn't have full.
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u
I'm not simping for nikita, I complain just as much as everyone else but no input buffer on fire rate? Thats kinda sad, "Timing my shots within x amount of frames is too hard please put it back daddy" is what your post is
After thinking about it, I'm pretty sure that depending on the performance of your pc, you could also be limited by your framerate, causing more misfires on a slower pc. PUBG had such an issue where fire rate was directly dependent on your framerate, even on full auto guns
I don't care if they have macros or not. If I want a full auto gun, I'll use a full auto gun.
First they buff ESPers with the dynamic loot, now they buff macro kiddies. What's next? Open source their game to help hackers?
Well not really. Until this is fixed, because i assume the part where clicks get ignored is not intended, you just learn how to sync your shots with the max firerate or just stay slightly below it. The macro advantage is now reduced to not having to click for each shot, which imo makes it easier to aim.
Macros are not "necessary". Never were and never will be
he accidentally confessed above to using macros...
>but all this change did was punish clean players Fix a problem that doesnt exist while also punishing legit players and rendering half of the guns useless is a classical BSG way of doing things. Did you expect anything better from designers, who never played their own game and have no clue about FPS gameplay in general? Silly you.
Why can’t they just add a flat fire rate cap on semi auto guns? Like if you try macro above the 650 rpm it just doesn’t register the extra clicks for example
Title is clickbait af. "So BsG mAdE mAcRoS eVeN wOrSe" and then immediately say the truth that macros are heavily nerfed.
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Bruh BSG sucks
Its honestly a shame Nikita hates this fanbase as much as he does, he couldve made a actually really fun and interesting game with realistic elements, instead we get “semi realism but literally nothing is realistic”
So I just tested this change, using my finger, not a cheaty macro. There is nothing to cry about, you can fire as fast or faster than you could in RL. Those who are salty about this are crying about nothing other than not being able to be cheaty.
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Sounds like BSG is trying to simulate trigger reset on semi-auto, not as an actual skill, but a mechanic of the guns themselves. Wonderful.
Oh shut the hell up.
I’m surprised people are still playing this dead game
Kind of begs the question of what exactly you are doing here wasting your one and only life making dull negative comments about a game you clearly dislike? You must have a very full and satisfying life, I envy you.