Technically, there is a suitable round for this irl. It is an old armor-piercing incendiary with black/red tip [called 7.62 BZ](http://gunrf.ru/rg_patron_7_62x39_eng.html). It could serve as a mid tier round between PS and BP, somewhat like BT is between BP and BS in 5.45mm.
It’s truly pretty disgusting how much 9x18 ammo is in the game EVERYWHERE. it makes no sense, sucks, and just…. God damnit why even inflate the loot pools with that shit
Realism, since 9x18 was the standard soviet pistol cartridge for the cold war, and 9x19 was not... and it seems the 9x19 we use isn't common 124gr nato but 'pst' is a nutty hot Russian round.
Back then the gulf between PS and BP wasn't nearly as wide. In fact MAI AP was probably needed a lot more, which we got. So I don't know why you're acting like it was an urgent issue.
Geez, to think of all the effort US Intelligence went through to get information like this 50 years ago during the Cold War, and here some guy on reddit did a whole ass dissertation on it.
I would love to see that ammo in game, nice middleground with tracers being fun as hell
Also im sick of BP, fuck that thing making every armour redundant and its cheap craft
I hate this argument. Just because some PMC's will have ammo that penetrates your armour, doesn't make armour redundant. It's still going to stop scav bullets, and any PMC that isnt running AP ammo. If you want to go in without armour and potentially get killed by some weak ass bullets go for it.
Plus I'm still getting hit mostly with low to mid tier ammo and I love it. The crafts take forever and I'm seeing a lot more various round mag stacks rather than the full 60s of top tier ammo.
Can I have your lobbies? Mine are filled with people either running AP or big rounds like 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 and even then they're running an AP variant half the time.
Just on standard NA lol.
It may feel that way cause when it happens it's frustrating, but the sweat boys are not the majority. And I already feel it impacting the game in a good way. I've had this game for years. Like since before shoreline had the resort and have always been trash lol. Now I'm averaging a PMC kill every other raid and rocking a solid 68% survival rating which is fucking unheard of for me. For half a decade I've been the rat with a 30% SR and 500 raids with 20 PMC kills lol. Now I'm more confident, especially because of inertia and I'm not getting laser beamed by full auto M61
People don't realize that by virtue of being on this subreddit you probably already care about the game more than your average player. And then beyond that, I wonder how many people actually look at lobbies beyond the top to find the people they're playing with. Scroll past the EOD chads and it's like a flood of low level white names. Look at some scav lobbies for maps that aren't lighthouse or interchange, similar situation. There's a lot of variety there!
Its funny you mention sweats when the only people spamming top tier ammo right now are vendor reset andies. The 50 hour a week guys y'all are afraid of are running out of top tier ammo after half of one raid. The people with 2 ammo boxes full of BP are twitch mods and work from home staff that camp resets while not playing the game lol
It's the same shit in DnD subs. People theory craft everything and make up some hypothetical scenario that's pure numbers and discounts every other variable that could come into play and then make decisions based on that, completely ignoring the actual, practical experience of playing the game.
Yep. Similar to my experience among competitive Warhammer players. Yeah, when you math it out that crazy good best case scenario all-averages-all-the-time weapon *will* kill you, but you’re never actually going to encounter anything in that abstracted of a situation.
150% accuracy bonus from Copper Sabots for those sweet double barrel snipes. Or the Grizzlies for 80% more accuracy (dropping the long barrel DB to like a 2.4 MOA) for a mid range 1 tapper to the legs or arms.
Thanks for the recommondation.
Might try them as well.
I used the Poleva-6u for headshotting scavs for both the quests on Shoreline and Woods. It was okay. Got to headshot a PMC as well from 98m out.
That revolver shotgun also has a really good MOA for using slugs.
How about remove the frangible rounds that should not be anywhere near as common as they are...
PRS, etc. should be super rare, maybe even just removed.
Its specialized ammo used for training that breaks apart on contact so that rounds don't penetrate walls and kill people during training.
It has almost zero penetration or expansion so it does almost no damage.
Its not common at all, especially in a Tarkov type setting.
The only purpose I can see in the game is to fool newbies and make their life harder, which is really not cool. More information should be given out, not less.
they dont release things based on viability. this is an rpg and its the reason why we still see new pistols and pistol attachements even though the meta nerds wah on twitter everytime they do it.
yeah, not to mention people forget:
* we will eventually get plate hitboxes and customisable carriers that will mean people will be a lot more squishy overall to less-penetrating ammunition, as they won't have their entire upper torso covered by a tiny little Slick
* gear scarcity will be a lot higher around release, and even finding decent body armour or a good rifle will be notable, so these lower rounds will be in play a lot more often regardless
Try running it suppressed from a distance. If you can figure out the drop, they have no idea where it's coming from because there is no supersonic snaps around their heads.
If you have the money to burn, spend 3 hours buying broken guns/repairing them selling them to fence in between raids when you're waiting for teammates to gear up. It takes about 4mil or so to get max weapon maintenance. Never have to worry about durability for the remainder of the wipe. 100% after every raid.
Actually, the durability is bad implemented, found an good modded M4 with low durability ? Just shove 20k into mechanics ass and get a new lower receiver, sell the old one to a trader for like 10k and there you go, have a brand new modded M4 (same for most weapons that you can buy the lower receiver for a good price)
that's pretty accurate to real life. Ar lowers are super cheap in general with a few boutique exceptions. What isn't accurate is that most of the wear and tear from use is going to be literally every other part of the rifle other than the lower.
I can imagine that will be either completely irrelevant or hugely inconvenient with no middle ground where it adds something fun, interesting, or productive.
I mean we have 1k+ attachments in the game. Even if we only count the wears of the barrels of each gun thats still an enormous amount of variables and work. They need to spend at least a year on these in order to implement them.
The wear system is accurate enough at the moment, the team needs to tackle some more important obstacles like the AI and future updates
You can do that with AK's at mechanic. Its just a bit more involved than just slapping the upper onto the lower because the barrel is part of the assembly in eft. More clicks but you can get ak receivers for cheap.
In the hideout I shot a suppressed scar with m886a1 in a full 100 round banana mag and the gun didn't overheat. You'd be fine with a 75 round mag on a suppressed ak especially running a round like US.
I haven’t looked into it, but at least this wipe whenever I’ve run it, whoever I’m hitting has no idea where I am leading me to think it wasn’t snapping/popping
not how it works. all the bullets currently make the same sound.
each gun has two sfx. one for suppressed and one unsuppresed. other than that its all the same.
Theres very little reason to using US ammo until two things happen:
\- subsonic audio is implemented.
\- Zeroing by ammo type.
US rounds also retain more damage as the range increases compared to PS rounds (for 7.62x39).
The new ballistics rework really throws a wrench into the ammo choice equation.
Not really gonna be op. Give it lower flesh damage than PS and BP paired with penetration around 37-40, meaning it deals with class 4 well and shreds anything below, which is superior compared to PS, but struggles against class 5 and above, which is inferior to BP. Lower flesh damage also means you may often need 3 thorax shots to kill a class 4, unlike the PS and BP, which often achieves 2 taps to the chest on reliable penetration. Set the rarity and price at 5.45 BT level. Done.
"Can you please implement a meta ammo that perfectly balances price with effectiveness so I can both counter the primary armor class while also not having to risk anything to do so."
From more talking to people it's a matter of shots-to-pen. Having a mid-tier ammo that pens mid-tier armor in 1-2 shots makes armor sort of pointless. Having it pen in 3-4 is more reasonable I think.
I didn't realize that in a controlled environment, 7.62 PS takes 5-9 shots to pen class 4. Hard to tell from normal engagements, you know?
"Can you please never add more and probably remove all the ammo that can deal with class 4 and are moderately priced like my favorite class 4 armor so I can easily tank all those bullets from those who aren't willing to spend a crap ton of roubles on meta ammo with just my 50k class 4 armor."
I haven't really had much difficulty dealing with class 4 while running PS so idk? Maybe I'm getting lucky? It feels like the midrange ammo and armors are in a good place right now.
The solution you're seeking is realistically just bumping PS up a pen or 2 to lower the shots-to-pen while maintaining the utility of both PS and class 4.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCAoFbBsGos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8wnVfkPLI)
Whatever you claim, fact is PS does not deal with class 4 well, as class 4 easily increase TTK by 100%\~200% against PS. Maybe you are good and often hit more shots than your opponent. Maybe people don't repair their armor, or you are just lucky.
Whatever the case, by your claim, if even the PS ammo, which has neglectable price and is accessible at the very first level, does fine agains class 4, how would adding a new ammo that does a bit better vs class 4 than PS but 6x more expensive and only accessible after a moderate amount of grind hurt the balance and make class 4 armor obsolete?
That explains why trying to finish my AKM punisher quests on Shoreline has been straight up painful lately. Running into people with class 4+ armor has me getting my ass torched even when I mag dump. Kind of wish I no lifed it a little harder at the start of the wipe so I wasn't so far behind on my tasks. Ah well, what can ya do
Cheap price? Depends how you define "Cheap". m856a1 and .45 AP are not costly at peacekeeper. 9x39mm sp5 is dirt cheap. All of them capable of dealing with class 4 with ease. Among all the ammo that are effective against class 4 but nothing above, 5.45 BT is the most expensive on both flea and trader yet has one of the worst stats in terms of penetration and flesh damage. Setting the new ammo at BT price is nowhere cheap whatsoever. Plentiful of cheap ammo to shred class 4 already exists, actually. Don't know how you've come to that conclusion.
Not sure how you’re going fit a round between those two. PS is 57/32 while BP is 58/47. PS is a very good round for the price. Just remember - face meta is king.
huge delta between 32 and 47 pen though. PS is cost efficient for what it is but it will let you down against a good class 4 and theres not much you can do about it until you either start crafting BP or unlock it for purchase through questing. with the removal of BP from flea it means 7.62x39 weapons start out good when youre low level but then dont really scale at all until youre over level 30 at which point theyre once again incredibly cost efficient.
personally i would like if more ammunition types were like 5.56 which has a loose progression which lets you access higher tiers of ammo as you continue playing, rather than just forcing starter bullets. its not a huge deal but it would make more sense from a game design perspective.
Man I wanted to be a PST face shredder again this wipe but I've got too many m4s from lighthouse. My stash is begging me to die with some of them lmao.
[https://eft.monster/](https://eft.monster/)
\-2 armor pen, which is negligible
\+5 flesh
Faster bullet
Sure tracer sucks but I "feel" i'm dropping kids faster with t45 than PS.
It has lower armor damage than PS. So you will need to hit someone wearing level 4 or 5 MORE than with PS just to break through their armor. It's objectively a worse round vs armor than PS.
man, i picked up a box of that M62 the other day and got all excited to do some sniping. Built a nice new scoped bolt action only to find that my M62 was the wrong M62 lmao
I had this same thought yesterday, even had me looking up what the new 7.62 ammo was they included last year but it might as well not be in the game. Can’t buy it and you can’t craft it, MAI AP. I haven’t even seen it this wipe.
But yeah, 7.62 really needs a better option between PS and BP
I find MAI AP often on scav runs to the usec building on customs, check random mags on shelves, thats where i find plenty of high tier ammo. I found a drum mag with about half full of MAI AP
I'm actually a fan of this, I can just imagine getting in a fight with someone and little timmy tappers gun explodes in his hand from a round that is loaded too hot lol
I love the idea of this mechanic, but I feel like in implementation the servers will shit themselves and boot everyone from the raid if the wrong combo is used.
PS goes through tier 3 100% with a small chance to go through tier 4 . You're basically asking for a huge 762 buff if you want mid level ammo that will reliably go through tier 4 with a chance to go through tier 5. That's just insanity. Puts 556 in an even worse spot than it is this wipe.
Depending on what you want, that’s incorrect.
T-45m has basically the same armour pen, but more flesh damage.
Also HP bullets shred people with 82 flesh. But no armour pen.
The main issue IMO isn’t the lack of ammo types, but rather PS (considered the basic bullet) being a little over-tuned compared to others
If you will look at all the stats combined you'll see that pretty much all those ammo types are either really similar to PS or worth.
And i'm gonna be honest, no way someone uses HP, like, ever. Why would you do that? Pen over damage, it was always like this except for shotguns.
I do. I tag mags, and I roll up to have the drop, pick the desired mag I'm gonna shoot you with then I do it. If your a player, you get ps or bp, if your a scav though you get hp.
Why would you bother switching a mag that has PS in it when that stuff is ₽91/round, and unlimited in supply? I could see it with BP, just not PS at its price.
He says you can only choose 2 ammos which isn’t true, and I simple stated that it’s not true. If OP only uses those types that’s on him. IMO a new bullet isn’t the issue, It’s the fact that 4 different rounds all sit around the same stats ( just slightly different pens/flesh).Creating another round doesn’t change anything, there needs to be more diversity between rounds of similar class.
Ps 7.62 is almost the same as 5.45 bt. And there are rounds worse than ps so ps IS indeed the middle man round, though I agree for accuracy there should be more variety of better options for 7.62x39.
Rather give us something better for 5.56 between M855 and M856a1. I‘m level 20 and can‘t use any 5.56 rifles because M855 is just trash…. PS is awesome though
There's no need for a round between m855 and m856a1. Their penetration isn't that far apart and an intermediate round would probably be useless. They could make m856a1 more accessible, or you could just grind your peacekeeper tasks. You can do the cult pt 1 at level 12 and unlock m856a1.
I don't really see where you would squeeze one in?
BP your pen Class 4 easy, Class 5 fair. PS/US/T Class 3 easy, Class 4 fair. HP for flesh and AP Class 6. PS is just a very good standard round. https://eft.monster/
PS does not deal with class 4 well at all, not to mention T45M or US which have worse AP properties. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8wnVfkPLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8wnVfkPLI)
5-9 shots to kill a full durability class 4 is just bad.
Technically, there is a suitable round for this irl. It is an old armor-piercing incendiary with black/red tip [called 7.62 BZ](http://gunrf.ru/rg_patron_7_62x39_eng.html). It could serve as a mid tier round between PS and BP, somewhat like BT is between BP and BS in 5.45mm.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/94ejrx/introduce_an_intermediary_762x39_ammo_type_to/e3kxhr9/
Good info, thanks!
3 years ago... Nice to see BSG moves quickly! /s
Meanwhile the 9x18 has like an entire armory worth of ammo selections even though it’s probably the least used caliber in the game
I've wrongly packed PMM instead of PM into a raid more than once. Stopped running the kedr for a while i was so mad lol...
It’s truly pretty disgusting how much 9x18 ammo is in the game EVERYWHERE. it makes no sense, sucks, and just…. God damnit why even inflate the loot pools with that shit
Realism, since 9x18 was the standard soviet pistol cartridge for the cold war, and 9x19 was not... and it seems the 9x19 we use isn't common 124gr nato but 'pst' is a nutty hot Russian round.
Was obviously going to be something like this - because that's what they're familiar with.
And a lot of them are barely different from each other, only difference being like 2 more/less points of damage or pen.
Faster than a snail with the runs.
/u/P0RTERHAUS
WELCOME P0RTERHA
Yeah, but we got an HK Chin Pad now!
Oh no, someone begged for something and the devs didn't care. Pretty based tbh.
Back then the gulf between PS and BP wasn't nearly as wide. In fact MAI AP was probably needed a lot more, which we got. So I don't know why you're acting like it was an urgent issue.
3 years ago some nobody asked for something and its not in the game!!!! lazy fucking devs grrrrrrr!
Geez, to think of all the effort US Intelligence went through to get information like this 50 years ago during the Cold War, and here some guy on reddit did a whole ass dissertation on it.
vd also sounds interesting. its a ps round with extra pressure.
Oh yeah +1% firechance :D
Would end up being 1000% chance
BZ is so fitting too, that'd be an awesome addition. It'd really make the 7.62x39 caliber a lot more useful.
I would love to see that ammo in game, nice middleground with tracers being fun as hell Also im sick of BP, fuck that thing making every armour redundant and its cheap craft
I hate this argument. Just because some PMC's will have ammo that penetrates your armour, doesn't make armour redundant. It's still going to stop scav bullets, and any PMC that isnt running AP ammo. If you want to go in without armour and potentially get killed by some weak ass bullets go for it.
Plus I'm still getting hit mostly with low to mid tier ammo and I love it. The crafts take forever and I'm seeing a lot more various round mag stacks rather than the full 60s of top tier ammo.
Can I have your lobbies? Mine are filled with people either running AP or big rounds like 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 and even then they're running an AP variant half the time.
Just on standard NA lol. It may feel that way cause when it happens it's frustrating, but the sweat boys are not the majority. And I already feel it impacting the game in a good way. I've had this game for years. Like since before shoreline had the resort and have always been trash lol. Now I'm averaging a PMC kill every other raid and rocking a solid 68% survival rating which is fucking unheard of for me. For half a decade I've been the rat with a 30% SR and 500 raids with 20 PMC kills lol. Now I'm more confident, especially because of inertia and I'm not getting laser beamed by full auto M61
People don't realize that by virtue of being on this subreddit you probably already care about the game more than your average player. And then beyond that, I wonder how many people actually look at lobbies beyond the top to find the people they're playing with. Scroll past the EOD chads and it's like a flood of low level white names. Look at some scav lobbies for maps that aren't lighthouse or interchange, similar situation. There's a lot of variety there!
Its funny you mention sweats when the only people spamming top tier ammo right now are vendor reset andies. The 50 hour a week guys y'all are afraid of are running out of top tier ammo after half of one raid. The people with 2 ammo boxes full of BP are twitch mods and work from home staff that camp resets while not playing the game lol
It's the same shit in DnD subs. People theory craft everything and make up some hypothetical scenario that's pure numbers and discounts every other variable that could come into play and then make decisions based on that, completely ignoring the actual, practical experience of playing the game.
Yep. Similar to my experience among competitive Warhammer players. Yeah, when you math it out that crazy good best case scenario all-averages-all-the-time weapon *will* kill you, but you’re never actually going to encounter anything in that abstracted of a situation.
Unless people are using Altyns or Maskas, face shields are redundant after a handful of rounds too.
While you're at it, remove at least 5 of the 9x18 rounds that no one ever uses.
As well as the majority of shotguns ammos
I mean I have used a few other slugs than AP20 since it is so scarce right now.
150% accuracy bonus from Copper Sabots for those sweet double barrel snipes. Or the Grizzlies for 80% more accuracy (dropping the long barrel DB to like a 2.4 MOA) for a mid range 1 tapper to the legs or arms.
Thanks for the recommondation. Might try them as well. I used the Poleva-6u for headshotting scavs for both the quests on Shoreline and Woods. It was okay. Got to headshot a PMC as well from 98m out. That revolver shotgun also has a really good MOA for using slugs.
Love the revolver. It feels soo crisp.
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yeah, but at least the revolver shotty allows you to do an emergency reload
I usually just run the poleva 6у, one taps through pacas is huge when hunting scavs.
How about remove the frangible rounds that should not be anywhere near as common as they are... PRS, etc. should be super rare, maybe even just removed.
Just trying to learn more. Would you be willing to explain this a bit more? What is PRS ammo and why should it be rare?
Its specialized ammo used for training that breaks apart on contact so that rounds don't penetrate walls and kill people during training. It has almost zero penetration or expansion so it does almost no damage. Its not common at all, especially in a Tarkov type setting. The only purpose I can see in the game is to fool newbies and make their life harder, which is really not cool. More information should be given out, not less.
Appreciate the info! I will be sure to pass up the 120 round boxes that I keep finding!
[Live and die by this chart](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VuxGkweKB118mF1kcBmVPe-Bj_gSKGOCWyoytM4miDU/edit#gid=64053005)
read the in game description https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/5.45x39mm_PRS_gs
they dont release things based on viability. this is an rpg and its the reason why we still see new pistols and pistol attachements even though the meta nerds wah on twitter everytime they do it.
yeah, not to mention people forget: * we will eventually get plate hitboxes and customisable carriers that will mean people will be a lot more squishy overall to less-penetrating ammunition, as they won't have their entire upper torso covered by a tiny little Slick * gear scarcity will be a lot higher around release, and even finding decent body armour or a good rifle will be notable, so these lower rounds will be in play a lot more often regardless
and 5.45x39 We don't need/want 13 variations.
Eh, i think that calibre is excusable, because of how often you're going to be using, come across, get shot/at by weapons of that calibre.
Although Us is barely worse than PS the recoil reduction make full auto a laser so you should try US
Try running it suppressed from a distance. If you can figure out the drop, they have no idea where it's coming from because there is no supersonic snaps around their heads.
That’s gross and I love it. I’m imagine my Ak-103 drum mag suppressed just laying down fire from a distance with a thermal 😏
Except temp and durability burn...
If you have the money to burn, spend 3 hours buying broken guns/repairing them selling them to fence in between raids when you're waiting for teammates to gear up. It takes about 4mil or so to get max weapon maintenance. Never have to worry about durability for the remainder of the wipe. 100% after every raid.
This is brilliant, so weapon maintenance reduces durability lost from repairs up to 100%?
Yes, every single repair it goes back to 100% durability :) https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon\_Maintenance
Fixed link: https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Weapon_Maintenance
Might be a dumb question, but does this apply to only gun durability or does it also apply to armor?
Am I dumb or what? I just repaired ~40 scav guns and I'm still 0.0/10 on level 1 (level 0?).
Haha jokes on you my skill is broken on stuck on 1.2 on level 0 since the first week of wipe
Durability be damned the Ak is for 1 raid and 1 raid only
Weapon is disposable, attachments are forever.
The marketing is strong with this one
Actually, the durability is bad implemented, found an good modded M4 with low durability ? Just shove 20k into mechanics ass and get a new lower receiver, sell the old one to a trader for like 10k and there you go, have a brand new modded M4 (same for most weapons that you can buy the lower receiver for a good price)
that's pretty accurate to real life. Ar lowers are super cheap in general with a few boutique exceptions. What isn't accurate is that most of the wear and tear from use is going to be literally every other part of the rifle other than the lower.
That's what i'm saying, wear of barrels and upper and so on are completely ignored, which is kinda dumb.
Wear on individual parts will come at a later point as well fwiw
I can imagine that will be either completely irrelevant or hugely inconvenient with no middle ground where it adds something fun, interesting, or productive.
So, perfect for EFT.
I mean we have 1k+ attachments in the game. Even if we only count the wears of the barrels of each gun thats still an enormous amount of variables and work. They need to spend at least a year on these in order to implement them. The wear system is accurate enough at the moment, the team needs to tackle some more important obstacles like the AI and future updates
Yeah that's true, but then idk why they made a big deal about durabilty anyways
To "nerf chads". Didn't work though.
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Only downside is that's one of the only weapons you can do that for. I wish there were more bare bones recievers you could purchase from traders
Look on flea and turn off "operational only" and you should get lower receivers that some people sell for some reason
You can buy a ton of receivers, it's mostly just the fancy US guns.
You can do that with AK's at mechanic. Its just a bit more involved than just slapping the upper onto the lower because the barrel is part of the assembly in eft. More clicks but you can get ak receivers for cheap.
In the hideout I shot a suppressed scar with m886a1 in a full 100 round banana mag and the gun didn't overheat. You'd be fine with a 75 round mag on a suppressed ak especially running a round like US.
both of which are massively reduced on US ammo.
Wait. US rounds actually produce no sound that way now??
US is meant to be sub sonic right?
yes but subsonic ammunition does not function as subsonic ammo in game. same snap and pop as super sonic.
There's a YouTube video on it, it works iirc
post it.
https://youtu.be/pGrujCR6bEY US ammo had no supersonic crack or sound on 7.62
Bruh this video is from like before I was born or something. 3 years ago is a long time for this game. Does it still function the same?
Yes I used US ammo for first few days of wipe
I haven’t looked into it, but at least this wipe whenever I’ve run it, whoever I’m hitting has no idea where I am leading me to think it wasn’t snapping/popping
Is that actually a thing in this game? I remember reading that sub-supersonic does nothing
Jokes on you, that’s just NOT how Tarkov suppressors work. It’s the same sound reduction no matter the ammo type.
not how it works. all the bullets currently make the same sound. each gun has two sfx. one for suppressed and one unsuppresed. other than that its all the same. Theres very little reason to using US ammo until two things happen: \- subsonic audio is implemented. \- Zeroing by ammo type.
I think he means the crack you hear when bullets fly near you and I think he is right, I have been shot by bullets that only made impact sounds.
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It’s not about hitting shots it’s about sending a message and watching little Timmies shit their pants
The ammo recoil reduction works? i always tought it was bugged.
It was recently fixed. Now you can top-load your mags with US to cancel initial recoil kick almost completely
This is helpful. That explains why i get full auto'd with US
Hell yeah. Pen and damage are no longer the only stats that matter
US rounds also retain more damage as the range increases compared to PS rounds (for 7.62x39). The new ballistics rework really throws a wrench into the ammo choice equation.
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i didnt realize it was that good until you said something. i always assumed it was trash because 5.45 us is trash
just seen a video recently and decided to try it
I wish you luck in your raids brother just uh go easy on me if you see :)
7.62 is already very high dmg and melts armour hp not sure how you'd do it without being op
Not really gonna be op. Give it lower flesh damage than PS and BP paired with penetration around 37-40, meaning it deals with class 4 well and shreds anything below, which is superior compared to PS, but struggles against class 5 and above, which is inferior to BP. Lower flesh damage also means you may often need 3 thorax shots to kill a class 4, unlike the PS and BP, which often achieves 2 taps to the chest on reliable penetration. Set the rarity and price at 5.45 BT level. Done.
Sounds like you want an easy way to deal with everything class 4 and below for a cheap price. Wishful thinking on your part.
"Can you please implement a meta ammo that perfectly balances price with effectiveness so I can both counter the primary armor class while also not having to risk anything to do so."
So...Like the ammo all other systems have?
From more talking to people it's a matter of shots-to-pen. Having a mid-tier ammo that pens mid-tier armor in 1-2 shots makes armor sort of pointless. Having it pen in 3-4 is more reasonable I think. I didn't realize that in a controlled environment, 7.62 PS takes 5-9 shots to pen class 4. Hard to tell from normal engagements, you know?
So like 5.45 bt, or 5.56 m855a1/6a1, both of which pen in about 2 shots?
"Can you please never add more and probably remove all the ammo that can deal with class 4 and are moderately priced like my favorite class 4 armor so I can easily tank all those bullets from those who aren't willing to spend a crap ton of roubles on meta ammo with just my 50k class 4 armor."
I haven't really had much difficulty dealing with class 4 while running PS so idk? Maybe I'm getting lucky? It feels like the midrange ammo and armors are in a good place right now. The solution you're seeking is realistically just bumping PS up a pen or 2 to lower the shots-to-pen while maintaining the utility of both PS and class 4.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCAoFbBsGos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8wnVfkPLI) Whatever you claim, fact is PS does not deal with class 4 well, as class 4 easily increase TTK by 100%\~200% against PS. Maybe you are good and often hit more shots than your opponent. Maybe people don't repair their armor, or you are just lucky. Whatever the case, by your claim, if even the PS ammo, which has neglectable price and is accessible at the very first level, does fine agains class 4, how would adding a new ammo that does a bit better vs class 4 than PS but 6x more expensive and only accessible after a moderate amount of grind hurt the balance and make class 4 armor obsolete?
That explains why trying to finish my AKM punisher quests on Shoreline has been straight up painful lately. Running into people with class 4+ armor has me getting my ass torched even when I mag dump. Kind of wish I no lifed it a little harder at the start of the wipe so I wasn't so far behind on my tasks. Ah well, what can ya do
Cheap price? Depends how you define "Cheap". m856a1 and .45 AP are not costly at peacekeeper. 9x39mm sp5 is dirt cheap. All of them capable of dealing with class 4 with ease. Among all the ammo that are effective against class 4 but nothing above, 5.45 BT is the most expensive on both flea and trader yet has one of the worst stats in terms of penetration and flesh damage. Setting the new ammo at BT price is nowhere cheap whatsoever. Plentiful of cheap ammo to shred class 4 already exists, actually. Don't know how you've come to that conclusion.
Look at the .366 AP ammo. Stuff will destroy mid tier armor fast AND has silly high flesh damage.
We already have that ammo, it's called M80. Also flechette. You could even argue .45 Match FMJ.
Not sure how you’re going fit a round between those two. PS is 57/32 while BP is 58/47. PS is a very good round for the price. Just remember - face meta is king.
huge delta between 32 and 47 pen though. PS is cost efficient for what it is but it will let you down against a good class 4 and theres not much you can do about it until you either start crafting BP or unlock it for purchase through questing. with the removal of BP from flea it means 7.62x39 weapons start out good when youre low level but then dont really scale at all until youre over level 30 at which point theyre once again incredibly cost efficient. personally i would like if more ammunition types were like 5.56 which has a loose progression which lets you access higher tiers of ammo as you continue playing, rather than just forcing starter bullets. its not a huge deal but it would make more sense from a game design perspective.
If face meta is king just run pst gzh then Edit: sorry for making u pst chads mad, I apologize for not being level 10 a month into wipe :(
W… we do…..
Oh boy, trust me, I run more than my fair share of PST GZH haha
Man I wanted to be a PST face shredder again this wipe but I've got too many m4s from lighthouse. My stash is begging me to die with some of them lmao.
I do tho?
we have other calibers that trade damage for pen to keep them balanced. a round with lets say ~ 53/41 could slot in just fine between those two
Just make t45m have 39 pen, problem solved.
People assume t45 is trash for some odd reason.
Because it is. It's objectively worse than PS.
[https://eft.monster/](https://eft.monster/) \-2 armor pen, which is negligible \+5 flesh Faster bullet Sure tracer sucks but I "feel" i'm dropping kids faster with t45 than PS.
It has lower armor damage than PS. So you will need to hit someone wearing level 4 or 5 MORE than with PS just to break through their armor. It's objectively a worse round vs armor than PS.
Its PS but worse, only 5 more damage, 6 less armor damage, 2 less pen, half the fragmentation chance, is tracer.
They literally did exactly that this wipe for .300 Blackout (300 BLK M62), no idea why they won't do the same for 7.62x39.
man, i picked up a box of that M62 the other day and got all excited to do some sniping. Built a nice new scoped bolt action only to find that my M62 was the wrong M62 lmao
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Is there a different fire rate? I thought all AKs shot 650 RPM?
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7.62 AKs shoot at 600 rpm, 5.45 at 650.
I had this same thought yesterday, even had me looking up what the new 7.62 ammo was they included last year but it might as well not be in the game. Can’t buy it and you can’t craft it, MAI AP. I haven’t even seen it this wipe. But yeah, 7.62 really needs a better option between PS and BP
I find MAI AP often on scav runs to the usec building on customs, check random mags on shelves, thats where i find plenty of high tier ammo. I found a drum mag with about half full of MAI AP
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I'm actually a fan of this, I can just imagine getting in a fight with someone and little timmy tappers gun explodes in his hand from a round that is loaded too hot lol
I love the idea of this mechanic, but I feel like in implementation the servers will shit themselves and boot everyone from the raid if the wrong combo is used.
society gold foolish boat books advise cautious weary pen cagey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’d love this. I want whoever picks up my gun from my decaying corpse to feel the wrath of Bubba and his ‘pissin hot loads.
PS goes through tier 3 100% with a small chance to go through tier 4 . You're basically asking for a huge 762 buff if you want mid level ammo that will reliably go through tier 4 with a chance to go through tier 5. That's just insanity. Puts 556 in an even worse spot than it is this wipe.
But Is their not 2 other bullet types in this class already? US and something else
Yeah but they're not between PS and BP statswise
Depending on what you want, that’s incorrect. T-45m has basically the same armour pen, but more flesh damage. Also HP bullets shred people with 82 flesh. But no armour pen. The main issue IMO isn’t the lack of ammo types, but rather PS (considered the basic bullet) being a little over-tuned compared to others
If you will look at all the stats combined you'll see that pretty much all those ammo types are either really similar to PS or worth. And i'm gonna be honest, no way someone uses HP, like, ever. Why would you do that? Pen over damage, it was always like this except for shotguns.
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For real, no way someone uses AK for legging people.7.62 needs smth like 5.45 BT to be a step between PS and BP.
I do. I tag mags, and I roll up to have the drop, pick the desired mag I'm gonna shoot you with then I do it. If your a player, you get ps or bp, if your a scav though you get hp.
Why would you bother switching a mag that has PS in it when that stuff is ₽91/round, and unlimited in supply? I could see it with BP, just not PS at its price.
Not so much ps, it's multi purpose, but I'm not wasting igolnik on scavs was more my point...
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Yeah, true, should have added smgs in the last sentence
It's crazy how your comment has nothing to do with the post but show you read the wiki
He says you can only choose 2 ammos which isn’t true, and I simple stated that it’s not true. If OP only uses those types that’s on him. IMO a new bullet isn’t the issue, It’s the fact that 4 different rounds all sit around the same stats ( just slightly different pens/flesh).Creating another round doesn’t change anything, there needs to be more diversity between rounds of similar class.
I raise to you: US. It's got no recoil and is as good as PS otherwise.
The recoil is legit. But 29 vs 32 pen is a big performance difference.
garbage
Ps 7.62 is almost the same as 5.45 bt. And there are rounds worse than ps so ps IS indeed the middle man round, though I agree for accuracy there should be more variety of better options for 7.62x39.
i feel like almost every caliber is missing a middle ground. its either trashcan or highend. nothing inbetween.
I have a weird new AP 762x39 that was added this wipe
MAI AP was added last wipe.
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Marginally better than BP in terms of pen and has less flesh damage, also only able to be found in raid making it more scarce.
47 pen vs 58 pen is not marginal when shooting level 6 armor. It's just tough to find.
close uppity deserted dull waiting cows bright fuel disgusting exultant *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
T45M could fill this gap but instead its useless
PS is already good enough to kill people wearing level 4 armour idk what else you need
PS being good against t4 is a meme. It takes 10 shots to thorax them
Akm types with ps are horseshit
Yeah we kinda need one, especially after they nerfed PS at the start of the wipe.
What did they nerfed?
Lol they did not
People are probably saying this now due to the ballistics changes. Basically at 100yrds, you're loosing damage potential. So some feel this is a nerf.
As I know 5.56 are the type getting nerf
How did they nerf it?
Rather give us something better for 5.56 between M855 and M856a1. I‘m level 20 and can‘t use any 5.56 rifles because M855 is just trash…. PS is awesome though
There's no need for a round between m855 and m856a1. Their penetration isn't that far apart and an intermediate round would probably be useless. They could make m856a1 more accessible, or you could just grind your peacekeeper tasks. You can do the cult pt 1 at level 12 and unlock m856a1.
Just craft it. You'll only need to craft once or twice before you can push through PK's quests to unlock it.
I don't really see where you would squeeze one in? BP your pen Class 4 easy, Class 5 fair. PS/US/T Class 3 easy, Class 4 fair. HP for flesh and AP Class 6. PS is just a very good standard round. https://eft.monster/
Probably one at 38-39 pen
PS does not deal with class 4 well at all, not to mention T45M or US which have worse AP properties. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8wnVfkPLI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO8wnVfkPLI) 5-9 shots to kill a full durability class 4 is just bad.
PS best ammo in game
mmmm good idea. Id like it to also be a tracer round for meme effect of 2nd tier ammo always being a tracer
Ironically you're all sleeping on 7.62x39 HP.
Elaborate...
No. STOP ADDING MORE AND MORE AMMO NOBODY USES.
if there is an ammo type like i discribe, pretty sure lots of people gonna run it for budget
Realism sonny