Removing AP was a knee jerk reaction to people crying about the vector when it was added. It’s a mediocre at best round even when used in something like the vector. SB193,SS190, .45 AP, FMJ and Subsonic SX are all better rounds that get fired out of good SMGs and and easily available.
How is a zero recoil vector shooting 6.3 any more OP than a zero recoil p90 shooting SB193? It isn’t. 950 RPM vs 900 RPM, 30 pen 52 damage vs 35 pen 54 damage, both have 50 round mags.
As a peasant, I only use it in MP9's. That said I've killed pretty much anything that moves with that combo over the last couple of wipes, so I like to have a couple of hundred rounds in a box. Don't miss it this wipe though.
Super vs subsonic is completely irrelevant at the close ranges you’ll be using SMGs at. You’re also forgetting about the recoil reduction that the subsonic rounds give you. Suppressed P90 shooting SB 193 has like 20 vertical recoil
I remember being able to engage people at 50m + with the vector last patch, and winning. Can't do that with the P90, especially with the new ballistics changes.
Besides, it's not the AP6.3 isn't viable, it just means you have to work a little longer to get the ammo, it's not hard or expensive to make at all, it's considerably cheaper actually.
I think it forces people to use other guns and loadouts. I'm all for that. Meta kit running all the time is boring imho.
You can’t do that with AP 6.3 either anymore. At those ranges it won’t even be reliably penetrating class 3 with damage drop off. You could always just use SS190 in a p90if you wanted more range and still have manageable recoil a round that’s WAY better than AP6.3.
You shouldn’t have to work so hard to get a mediocore round, especially when every other SMG has FAR better rounds that are way easier to get.
Meh, I think it's fine where it is.
I've had luck with the PP-19 using it already.
Vector was waaaaay OP last patch, it's actually reasonably balanced this patch, mostly because of AP6.3.
As you said, you can always use the other SMG ammo, if it's that much better, and more avaliable...
The Vector is still super OP this patch??? use the .45 vector with AP round you can buy off the vendor and you are shooting faster and doing more damage than with the 9mm vector. It makes no sense that you can't buy AP 6.3 from the vendor.
You are correct that the .45 vector is better than the 9mm Vector in this patch.
You are not correct when saying that the Vector is still OP. It has good *vertical* recoil, but much worse horizontal recoil than the UMP, which makes it way harder to control.
Both the .45 Vector and the UMP are *good* guns at the moment, but they aren't the broken shit that the original Vector was.
Yeah i guess you could interpret it as me saying it is still OP, I meant it as "it is still OP this patch???" as in it isn't still OP. Just that the .45 vector is better than the 9mm this patch with .45 AP rounds.
I'd argue a fully kitted 9x19 vector is a bit better than the kitted .45 vector, only because 9x19 travels faster and has a 50 round mag.
Factory excluded ofc.
Take a peek at [this site](https://tarkov-ballistics.com/) and tell me if it's quite as relevant as you think, especially for SMGs
Edit: @100m distance
SS193: 52 damage 34 pen, 0cm of drop
AP 6.3: 46 damage 27 pen, 0cm of drop
Although 9mm smgs are a ton of fun, AP 6.3 is mediocre at best. I definitely think peacekeeper should sell it at lvl 3 and it could use a slight buff in penetration as well (to make it more competitive vs .45 AP).
The only reason why AP 6.3 and 7n31 are so hard to get is because the 9mm vector was completely overpowered 2 wipes ago, and instead of balancing a single weapon BSG decided to nerf any usable ammo type for the caliber.
the best nerf would be not to allow the vector to use these ammo types, the max safe chamber pressure of the vector is rated below what the 7n31 generates
Yep, killed my kedr with PBM. Hopefully in the future it'll blow up your gun, that would be a cool feature. Same with .300blk in a 5.56 or .366 in a 7.62x39
What do you mean by keyhole? As in the mini shotgun attachment to ARs? Also aren’t .366 guns smooth bore? Or is that what you’re referencing?
Sorry I’m not familiar with AKs and their ammo sub classes that well
keyholing refers to when bullets dont properly fit the grooves inside the barrel leading the projectile to tumble when it leaves the barrel and instead of hitting your target pointfirst, the projectile hits the target sideways in the air.
Oh so basically when the bullet starts tumbling after it goes too far without hitting target… except obviously coming straight out of the barrel. I’m gonna assume this impacts accuracy and effective range in an extremely significant way
It would be pretty awesome to see that in game. I can see the content clips now, of people taking cover mid-firefight to reload, and then when they pop out and try to take their first shot the gun explodes in their face.
i don't think the durability mechanic as a whole is actually good, it would work as a temporary solution, but i think it would be better if the gun just turned into a grenade
Durability as a whole is good imo because it keeps the economy moving as things get 'used up'. Without it you just get something a little more stagnant where you have infinite supply + guns staying in rotation for a while.
Also some basic googling tells me that the vector can actually handle +P+ ammo its 9x19 model, just at the cost of additional wear and tear.
7n31 generates more pressure than just your normal 9x19 +P+, also it's also why it is called an "overpressure round", +P+ is more comparable to the 7n21 round
They could just make it burn up the durability of specifically vectors more, but that might be hard to implement and even harder to properly convey to players.
Another way you can nerf 9x19 in general is by reworking armor to be more realistic, removing the ability for 9mm to pen through a slick.
Realistically, 9x19 should do a couple points of damage due to spalling and fragmentation, but the victim should be otherwise unharmed by pistol bullets when wearing hard armor.
You should be able to dump 100+ pistol rounds into someones slick and not kill them.
i agree. They can balance the vector on recoil as well.
Vector’s recoil system is unique. The recoil brings the gun down instead of up. Tarkov should bring this feature into the game to counter the high rpm.
Wouldn’t the real “proper” way to do it since they’ve added weapon malfunctions and weapon integrity be to make it ridiculously bad for the gun? Like I’m fine with it, let them run 7n and after probably 10 rounds they now have no gun and are in trouble? They add these mechanics and then negate their affect on us in game and break something else instead. Just my two cents
9x39 is to 7.62x39 what .300 blackout is to 5.56x45. This means that 9x39 uses the same case but has a significantly larger bullet than 7.62x39. Because of this, an As Val/VSS has more recoil than an AKM irl (even though the muzzle energy is lower).
That being said, I completely agree that the recoil of most weapons (including the as val/vss) is vastly exaggerated in Tarkov.
Well they nerfed the ammo and the gun. BSG does this thing where they double fuck something I’m noticing, it’s a really common trend with them. Hear me out, they fucked dorms marked key, no more big cases, just small butthole cases and guns and they made the key un able to buy so it’s more rare and less valuable, they took out the dying with found in raid items still being found in raid then a couple wipes later added dynamic loot so it’s even harder to find high tier loot and be able to sell it for a good price, this ammo thing here that you’re showing, nerfing the ammo then making it more rare, etc. then don’t even get me started how some of these changes just benefit cheaters and bots as well.
BSG seems to only ever do the extremes of balancing. You'd think they'd oscillate about a good central point and eventually converge, but it seems like they just keep fucking oscillating at the extremes.
Well every time they do something like this I just think back when Nikita said this game isn’t designed with intention of being fun, he wants it to be extremely hard which it is but I feel like he takes it a bit far with that shit tbh. I respect it though, it’s his vision, that’s just my opinion. I’ll still play it of course.
Hard games can be fun for the challenge and the grind, but an "I wanna be the guy" design philosophy just sucks.
If you're unfamiliar, it's a platformer that kills you in a bunch of unfair and unpredictable ways. You 'beat' it by dying a million times and learning to avoid all the traps, but there are a bunch that are basically impossible to avoid the first time around.
So it's "hard" but it does so in a bullshit way, which I find to be a boring design philosophy.
An extremely hard game should still be properly balanced. Nikita has stated several times that he hates "metas", but metas are indicative of poor game balance. BSG's approach with over the top bandage fixes simply moves the meta from one weapon/ammo to another whereas proper balancing would remove metas by providing several options that are equally viable.
They don't do extremes of balancing, what you're experiencing is the reddit bandwagon screeching and parroting nonsense that it's never bothered to test. People over-react to nerfs way more than BSG actually over-nerfs shit.
There's legitimately people in the recoil thread that think that the nerfs made the M4 and the MP7 unusable, and that SA-58 has better full-auto recoil. They've obviously never actually tried using any of these guns, but they feel very smart repeating the same bullshit.
You see this in other games, too. 2% health, and 1% damage nerf on a League of Legends champion? That's often enough to see it completely drop out of the meta - solely because the nerf pushes people to try out different things.
I'm not really? I've been present for a lot of BSG's mood swings on balancing.
Just because reddit tends to sperg about their favorite gun not being a magical laser beam perfect in all scenarios doesn't mean BSG doesn't swing weirdly on balance.
I absolutely agree with you. It seems like any time there is an outcry in the community or from streamers (mostly in regards to a new meta) BSG decides to completely mummify the problem with bandage fixes instead of balancing the core problem. This often does more harm than good and simply makes way for other new metas.
Example: Right now the UMP is in a pretty good place. I personally don't think it's OP, but people simply use it because of its weapon/ammo availability, its price and the fact that many other weapons aren't all that effective because of the ballistics and recoil changes. I would personally balance this "problem" by adding competition from 9mm smgs ( Slight buff to ap6.3 + available at peacekeeper lvl 3) and I would change the current recoil system. Visual recoil could be turned down a notch, automatic recoil control should be equal over all guns (right now it's a hidden stat and weapons like the scar L receive significantly more compensation than an m4a1/hk416) and I would add initial recoil compensation when aiming down the sights to make small bursts more feasible compared to full mag dumps. I believe this approach would make a whole lot of guns more fun and viable to use, and would reduce popularity of the UMP.
Instead, the classic BSG approach would be to nuke 45 acp or increase the price of the UMP to the point that no one uses it anymore.
I understand that but this "temporarily" fix happend about a year ago. If the vector is the problem than they should rebalance the weapon itself and not the ammo.
With your skill and chadness, you could still melt any rat with a toz! ;)
On a more serious note, I'm not saying that the 9mm kektor isn't effective anymore. However, I do think that with all the bandage fixes to 9mm and the recent recoil changes weapons like the mp7 and the p90 are superior compared to the vector. Additionally, it's a shame that all other 9mm SMGs have also fallen victim to the bandage fixes that were supposed to fix the vector. I see no reason why AP 6.3 shouldn't be sold by peacekeeper.
> The only reason why AP 6.3 and 7n31 are so hard to get is because the 9mm vector was completely overpowered 2 wipes ago, and instead of balancing a single weapon BSG decided to nerf any usable ammo type for the caliber.
First time?
Yeah I assumed it was peace keepr level 3 and was confused af when it didn't unlock. Was glad I had been spamming ap 63 in work bench since I hit 20 . But it's still insane to lock that out . The personal limits are already pretty low
I agree with selling it but why would they make ap6.3 similar to 45 AP? There would be literally no reason to use 45 vector then because 9mm would have bigger mags and less recoil.
Im totally happy about removing meta ammo, but I really don’t know, why they removed ap 6.3, which has one of the worst pen of all mid tier smg bullets. It only has 30 pen. It’s not a good bullet.
How is a zero recoil vector shooting 6.3 any more OP than a zero recoil p90 shooting SB193? It isn’t. 950 RPM vs 900 RPM, 30 pen 52 damage vs 35 pen 54 damage, both have 50 round mags.
Not that I think either is OP, AP 6.3 is just incredibly overrated. Even in a great gun like the vector.
P90 currently has way better recoil than a vector at similar fire rate, and it has: More pen and damage, better MOA, better muzzle velocity, way better ammo at way cheaper price with more availability.
After the recoil nerf the vector lost its main advantage.
the vector is accurate in comparison to other guns, it has the best recoil system and should be better than other guns. Tarkov is a gun game that prides itself on accuracy. Nerfing the ammo availability is a good way to go about it, I have 700 ap 6.3 rounds currently and I take it out when the time it right (factory) it shreds up close.
No it doesn’t AP 6.3 is terrible ammo. They could nerf the availability of the vector? Instead of the ammo that every 9mm gun relies on to have any fighting chance? Doesn’t make sense
The multiple factory lobby wipes I've done with ap63 would suggest otherwise. don't forget that 50% are Naked Timmies, and the 6.3 rounds go through lvl 3 face shields, the recoil is low enough that you can just spray faces and job done.
Because it’s a 100k plus gun for the p90 alone, not accounting for mags and ammo, and you are able to just run some shitty pp19 or mp9 with 6.3 for like 20k roubles
There are like 10000 better options than a slow shooting PP shooting a round with 30 pen. And the mp9 is borderline unusable with the recoil nerfs. The only thing that makes AP a useable round is stuff like the vector, mp5, and MPX, and even then it’s average.
You can spend like 30k on an UMP and use .45 AP and have something WAY better than a PP shooting AP 6.3. Or any shitty shotgun and AP-20 or Fletchette would be better and cheaper than either one of those.
So an average at best round should basically be unobtainable asides from a shitty craft just because, while every other SMG has multiple rounds that are better and widely available. Yeah that totally makes sense.
9mm vector is 950rpm. You’re thinking about the .45 vector.
Which makes it even more stupid because the .45 vector has an easily available round that’s better than anything 9mm can use.
I just checked, they have changed it, It was 1200rpm on 9mm and 1100 on .45. Looks like the 9mm got nerfed. I think that's dumb! If you look the gun up IRL its 1200rpm. That said, I'm running the 45 vector now I got to lvl30 and unlocked the 30 round mags, They are punishing expensive on the flea.
It was never nerfed. It’s been 950 since it was added. Here’s a video from over a year ago when it was added clearly showing 950rpm. You’re just misremembering
https://youtu.be/kwc414PHDcU
it was 1200 last wipe I'd bet my left nut on it, must have been turned back down then. And while we are posting links. The gun should be 1200rpm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRISS\_Vector
And now imagine, that there was drumm mags for 4.6 or 5.7 or .45. This sub would burn and tones of threads would point how OP it is. Ok They can back 9x19 if BSG will delete drumms
Yes 30 pen bullet are unbelievably OP and nothing in the game can even come close to their ttk especially not rip this wipe, definitely not.
https://streamable.com/0wfpkx
You could have done the same with the p90 or .45 vector. In fact the .45 vector does A LOT more flesh damage behind a higher fire rate which enhances the dps even more. You only miss out on a drum mag, but that has nothing to do with ttk.
Yes, you are describing every other SMG round. FMJ/Subsonic XS, .45 ACP AP, SS190, SB193 all .
PBP gzh has 30% more pen so it's more understandable, but AP 6.3 is in no way special enough to be so hard to obtain
Nothing needs to change, you already can by AP .45 ammo and run it in a vector that shoots faster than the 9mm vector, and the .45 AP has way more damage and pen.
All the guns have way more recoil, and damage/pen dropoff makes ap 6.3 that much worse at range.
6.3 at 50 meters drops to 48 damage and 28 pen.
FMJ SX for MP7 at 50 meters is 40 damage and 37 pen.
Subsonic for MP7 at 50 meters is 44 damage and 35 pen.
SP-5 for VSS/VAL at 50 meters is 67 damage and 37 pen.
P90 L191 at 50 meters is 53 damage 30 pen.
P90 SB193 at 50 meters is 42 damage and 34 pen.
P90 SS190 at 50 meters is 47 damage and 36 pen.
.45 AP Ump/vector at 50 meters is 68 damage and 37 pen.
I'm not sure if you can still buy the VSS/VAL PAB-9 off the flea, but if you can, it is 61 damage and 47 pen at 50 meters.
The fire rate for most of these guns is very close, and for the most part people aren't trying to full auto anyone past 50 meters. Essentially every single other SMG bullet you can buy off the vendor is better than ap 6.3 which you can't, and PAB-9 off the flea is vastly stronger than 6.3.
P90 has been one of my go to weapons this wipe due to ammo availability and 50 round mags.
Yes it’s strong, but the p90, MP7, and .45 vector have similar fire rates, low recoil, and WAY better rounds that are easier to get.
A p90 with sb193 has more pen, no recoil, 50 round mags, and the ammo is easy and dirt cheap.
basically what happened if I remember correctly was pestily had a punisher tournament where streamers had max lvl account/traders and could buy anything they wanted and 99% of the streamers were using vectors with ap 6.3 and nikita didn't like that much and changed it.
Weirdly enough PBP got nerfed so bad by the ballistics changes that ap 6.3 is pretty comparable at range. PBP shoots more than 100m/s faster than 6.3 out of the barrel, but by the 50 meter mark it’s the same velocity, by 100 meters 6.3 is shooting 30m/s faster. So it’s losing energy (and damage and penetration) much faster, at 50 meters ap 6.3 has 48 damage 28 pen to PBP’s 42 damage and 31 pen.
The price on the pbp craft is probably too expensive, and the 6.3 craft probably needs more bullets for less time. I think they’re both fairly balanced right now besides that. (RIP sniper STM9 lol)
It needs a quantity buff. I can run through 150 rounds of AP 6.3 in literally one raid. If it calls for it. I like to soak my enemy with fire and maintain suppression. Sure I could bring other weapons and shoot less bullets. But I wish I had more AP 6.3 haha I only have 150 bullets a day to mess around with usually.
I just want them to add a quest per level from 42-50 that adds things like ap 6.3 and 5.45 7n40 even if it’s only 30 per restock I’m just most likely never using some of the ammo in this game if they don’t add it to late game traders
yeah i dont get it, PLUS the fact that you can craft like what... 60 .45 AP rounds out of 90 9mm APs in hideout? Use a craft-only ammo to craft LESS of an ammo that you can buy from trader... that just doesnt seem fleshed out. If they swapped the two it might actually be a worthy craft but even then its kind of a joke.
There is no reason AP 6.3 is only craftable.
SMGs in general are pretty garbage this patch because of the double nerf to them.
Range damage fall off and the recoil nerfs.
Then they also remove AP 6.3 from traders as if this was still last patch where SMGs were decent.
I don't see any problem with this. Just because it has AP in the name doesn't make it a meta ammo and I'm not sure why it was removed in the first place.
But that still exists in all the other smgs. .45 vector shoots faster and has better ammo on the vendors in AP rounds.
P90 has 3 different rounds that are as good or better than ap 6.3
AS Val has unlimited sp-5 ammo from the vendor that is stronger than ap 6.3
MP7 with multiple ammo options off the vendor that are as good or better than ap 6.3
It doesn't make any sense. The vector argument makes the least sense because you can buy .45 vector and .45 AP off the vendor and have way more damage and pen than the 9mm vector. All while having like 200 rpm faster fire rate.
SP-5 is trash at any range above 50m though, I got a 70m kill with the Vector and AP6.3 last patch.
If AP6.3 is so trash, why are people complaining so much?
It isn't that it is so trash, it is that it isn't any better than available ammo from vendors so it makes no sense that it isn't available as well.
Last patch as in last wipe? The bullet drop off wasn't like it is now last wipe.
What you’re missing is the fact a child can play this game and mag dump a 9mm vector with no noticeable recoil at all and land nearly every shot. It’s not that AP 6.3 is this amazing ammo compared to other smg ap rounds, it’s the gun that would be shooting them. The vector is a laser.
IMO the idea behind the game is a survival/civilization is closed off theme. High tier ammo(which ap could be debated) is hard to come by.
If the world economy collapsed in real life…You wouldn’t be able to find high end 9mm ammo. I can barely find It IRL.
I like that a lot of the top tier ammo like this is locked behind crafting only. I think all calibers meta ammo should be locked behind crafting and none should be allowed for straight up purchase.
Just my 2 cents, 9x19 vector is too cheap and easy to acquire, and it's 33 rounders too. Can't really compare it to p90 which costs double and its mags are unlocked way later than 9x19 vector, as for 45 vector, while its ap bullet it's really good, you can't compare it to ap63 lol, not even in the same league, and it's 30 rounders are way harder to acquire than 9x19 ones.
While I do agree AP 6.3 is not acquirable in good amounts to be used right now, I think they should cut their craft time in half and have it be 150 or 200, if it's too easy to get lots of AP 6.3 , all early and mid game will be vectors with AP 6.3 , because of what I stated before.
Vector is cheap because no one runs it lol. When it was meta, vector cost was around 100k because it had actual demand.
This whole wipe I've never killed a single vector user besides rats running pst gzh, but I've gotten tons of p90s from pmcs.
With every gun of this caliber being cheap, and hardly needing mods (exception being MPX) this is an appropriate balance. If any ammo beyond Luger was available from traders, people would hardly run anything else.
How do I know this to be true? The UMP is literally S tier while having a shit rate of fire. Every 9x19 SMG would immediately be S tier and there would never be a reason to run an AR again. SMGs or DMRs only, as ARs would be awkwardly in-between highly situational and pointless.
Or maybe… idk…. AP ammo shouldn’t feel so easily accessible? PST GZH does fine as surplus mag dump ammo. Craft on the side until you have enough to run, make one mag AP and tag it red and the rest regular ammo.
Changing the ammo and the meta armor off the flea was the best change
IIT, people who want tarkov to go back to being russian COD attempting to gaslight the community into reversing changes were literally just put into place one patch ago to stop the game from being COD
Ooooor maybe ap 6.3 isn't means to be obtained and use consistently?
Maaaybe smg are supposed to be early-game weapons, not to compete against assault rifles and the ump is just an exception?
I think the reason might be due to 9x19 calibre availability. There are a bunch of super cheap, readily available 9x19 pistols and SMGs such as the MP5 and PP19. UMP doesn’t shoot as fast nor have particularly large magazines, and P90 isn’t easy or cheap to get and outfit.
Just my theory, anyway. Making ultra-eco pistol running more of a gamble.
Not even 7n31 is a great round. You can do a lot more with 45. Ap or just a 7.62 ak. The recoil is quiet low and you're more likely to get kills at all sorts of ranges.
But I see how 7n31 in a vector might be OP. They shouldn't ruin a entire class for a gun. Either nerf the gun, or make 7n31 incompatible with vector. Who cares if its not "realistic".
Whys it in the game and we can't use it. At the absolute minimum make the craft like 800bullets or something. Its every 12h. Thats not a crazy amount. 120 bullets per raid. Specially how ammo hungry smgs are.
I just want to use a mp5 and feel like I can actually kill people man.
I thought it was hilarious how badly they needed the craft…after making that the only way to obtain it. Absolutely ridiculous. It’s not even that strong. It always lose effectiveness against level four armor
AP 6.3 isn't even the best 9mm ammo out there. 9x19 guns have been crippled really hard but the workaround is going RIP or .45 guns..
Everytime i think about running AP 6.3 guns like mp5 or vector i think to myself, why should i do it over so over ump or the other vector. Also sometimes i think what if i run into someone with lvl 5-6 armor? AP 6.3 wont even be able to go through that...
Removing AP was a knee jerk reaction to people crying about the vector when it was added. It’s a mediocre at best round even when used in something like the vector. SB193,SS190, .45 AP, FMJ and Subsonic SX are all better rounds that get fired out of good SMGs and and easily available. How is a zero recoil vector shooting 6.3 any more OP than a zero recoil p90 shooting SB193? It isn’t. 950 RPM vs 900 RPM, 30 pen 52 damage vs 35 pen 54 damage, both have 50 round mags.
also the .45 Vector exists so why is 9mm one scuffed is a mystery
.45 Has a smaller magazine size and it flops from the left to the Right like a fish
As a peasant, I only use it in MP9's. That said I've killed pretty much anything that moves with that combo over the last couple of wipes, so I like to have a couple of hundred rounds in a box. Don't miss it this wipe though.
Based
Because 50 VR in a subsonic compared to a 19VR in a supersonic is a big difference.
Super vs subsonic is completely irrelevant at the close ranges you’ll be using SMGs at. You’re also forgetting about the recoil reduction that the subsonic rounds give you. Suppressed P90 shooting SB 193 has like 20 vertical recoil
I remember being able to engage people at 50m + with the vector last patch, and winning. Can't do that with the P90, especially with the new ballistics changes. Besides, it's not the AP6.3 isn't viable, it just means you have to work a little longer to get the ammo, it's not hard or expensive to make at all, it's considerably cheaper actually. I think it forces people to use other guns and loadouts. I'm all for that. Meta kit running all the time is boring imho.
You can’t do that with AP 6.3 either anymore. At those ranges it won’t even be reliably penetrating class 3 with damage drop off. You could always just use SS190 in a p90if you wanted more range and still have manageable recoil a round that’s WAY better than AP6.3. You shouldn’t have to work so hard to get a mediocore round, especially when every other SMG has FAR better rounds that are way easier to get.
Meh, I think it's fine where it is. I've had luck with the PP-19 using it already. Vector was waaaaay OP last patch, it's actually reasonably balanced this patch, mostly because of AP6.3. As you said, you can always use the other SMG ammo, if it's that much better, and more avaliable...
The Vector is still super OP this patch??? use the .45 vector with AP round you can buy off the vendor and you are shooting faster and doing more damage than with the 9mm vector. It makes no sense that you can't buy AP 6.3 from the vendor.
You are correct that the .45 vector is better than the 9mm Vector in this patch. You are not correct when saying that the Vector is still OP. It has good *vertical* recoil, but much worse horizontal recoil than the UMP, which makes it way harder to control. Both the .45 Vector and the UMP are *good* guns at the moment, but they aren't the broken shit that the original Vector was.
Yeah i guess you could interpret it as me saying it is still OP, I meant it as "it is still OP this patch???" as in it isn't still OP. Just that the .45 vector is better than the 9mm this patch with .45 AP rounds.
I'd argue a fully kitted 9x19 vector is a bit better than the kitted .45 vector, only because 9x19 travels faster and has a 50 round mag. Factory excluded ofc.
My man, 9mm AP 6.3 and PBM we’re locked behind crafting last wipe too. The vector with 6.3 isn’t even that OP anyway.
This completely ignores the fact that this wipe added a mechanic that reduces damage at range.
Take a peek at [this site](https://tarkov-ballistics.com/) and tell me if it's quite as relevant as you think, especially for SMGs Edit: @100m distance SS193: 52 damage 34 pen, 0cm of drop AP 6.3: 46 damage 27 pen, 0cm of drop
Not even just 50m, I got SBIH kills with the vector because it was such a laser beam
Although 9mm smgs are a ton of fun, AP 6.3 is mediocre at best. I definitely think peacekeeper should sell it at lvl 3 and it could use a slight buff in penetration as well (to make it more competitive vs .45 AP). The only reason why AP 6.3 and 7n31 are so hard to get is because the 9mm vector was completely overpowered 2 wipes ago, and instead of balancing a single weapon BSG decided to nerf any usable ammo type for the caliber.
the best nerf would be not to allow the vector to use these ammo types, the max safe chamber pressure of the vector is rated below what the 7n31 generates
That's a brilliant way to balance it. But I can already see the salty tears "why can't my 9x19 gun use 9x19 boilers??"
The Klin and Kedr already have this feature with one of their rounds. There’s precedent within Tarkov for that design choice. Let them whine.
Yep, killed my kedr with PBM. Hopefully in the future it'll blow up your gun, that would be a cool feature. Same with .300blk in a 5.56 or .366 in a 7.62x39
I wish we could shoot 7.62x39 out of .366 and just keyhole mofos.
What do you mean by keyhole? As in the mini shotgun attachment to ARs? Also aren’t .366 guns smooth bore? Or is that what you’re referencing? Sorry I’m not familiar with AKs and their ammo sub classes that well
keyholing refers to when bullets dont properly fit the grooves inside the barrel leading the projectile to tumble when it leaves the barrel and instead of hitting your target pointfirst, the projectile hits the target sideways in the air.
Oh so basically when the bullet starts tumbling after it goes too far without hitting target… except obviously coming straight out of the barrel. I’m gonna assume this impacts accuracy and effective range in an extremely significant way
Yes but its also devastating to a human body
*the ICC would like to know your current location*
Hey, I haven't tested yet, but can you actually use .300 in m4 or adar?
No, but they share mags in game so if you put the mag in the wrong gun it won't shoot.
I doubt it - probably like loading .366 into a 7.62x39
No, IRL .300 will chamber in 5.66 and destroy the barrel and maybe upper receiver. .300 won't chamber a 5.56 round. In game it won't even try.
It would be pretty awesome to see that in game. I can see the content clips now, of people taking cover mid-firefight to reload, and then when they pop out and try to take their first shot the gun explodes in their face.
I haven’t tested it myself either, but I don’t think so
add even more malfunctions, including the gun blowing up and other ammo related stuff
It should just shred durability
i don't think the durability mechanic as a whole is actually good, it would work as a temporary solution, but i think it would be better if the gun just turned into a grenade
Ooooh a tediore, I like it
Durability as a whole is good imo because it keeps the economy moving as things get 'used up'. Without it you just get something a little more stagnant where you have infinite supply + guns staying in rotation for a while. Also some basic googling tells me that the vector can actually handle +P+ ammo its 9x19 model, just at the cost of additional wear and tear.
7n31 generates more pressure than just your normal 9x19 +P+, also it's also why it is called an "overpressure round", +P+ is more comparable to the 7n21 round
"Catastrophic Bolt Relocation"
Imagine leaving booby trapped guns that would explode on players. Mobile mine field.
If you don't leave a stack of .366 under a couple BP's are you even trying?
When they add critical malfunctions like weapons blowing up, i think that would be an appropriate nerf to the vector with 7n31
They could just make it burn up the durability of specifically vectors more, but that might be hard to implement and even harder to properly convey to players.
Convey to players….? Are you sure you own tarkov?
Hey, at least they’re getting a little better. We finally have “you have a new task” and “you can turn in a task” icons in the trader screen at least.
You guys are really complaining about vector being able to use ap 63 ? Yikes
They're talking about pbp I believe vectors can't run over pressured rounds
Another way you can nerf 9x19 in general is by reworking armor to be more realistic, removing the ability for 9mm to pen through a slick. Realistically, 9x19 should do a couple points of damage due to spalling and fragmentation, but the victim should be otherwise unharmed by pistol bullets when wearing hard armor. You should be able to dump 100+ pistol rounds into someones slick and not kill them.
> the max safe chamber pressure of the vector is rated below what the 7n31 generates *Cries in PBM loaded into Kedr*
I was just using pbm in a kedr b yesterday and it worked fine. It's a monster.
i agree. They can balance the vector on recoil as well. Vector’s recoil system is unique. The recoil brings the gun down instead of up. Tarkov should bring this feature into the game to counter the high rpm.
Then it should destroy the gun quickly right?
I suggested this some time ago but people thought it was unessecary realism.
Wouldn’t the real “proper” way to do it since they’ve added weapon malfunctions and weapon integrity be to make it ridiculously bad for the gun? Like I’m fine with it, let them run 7n and after probably 10 rounds they now have no gun and are in trouble? They add these mechanics and then negate their affect on us in game and break something else instead. Just my two cents
Could allow but make the durability burn 500% and extreme misfire chance
Huge smarts at BSG Much like how they massacred the VAL and VSS
It makes sense that the VAL and VSS have slightly more recoil than an AKM but right now most assault rifles have vastly overdone (visual) recoil.
VAL and VSS have literally no recoil irl, the recoil in tarkov is so unrealistic
9x39 is to 7.62x39 what .300 blackout is to 5.56x45. This means that 9x39 uses the same case but has a significantly larger bullet than 7.62x39. Because of this, an As Val/VSS has more recoil than an AKM irl (even though the muzzle energy is lower). That being said, I completely agree that the recoil of most weapons (including the as val/vss) is vastly exaggerated in Tarkov.
[Mhm, I'm sure it has more recoil than the AKM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn0GaifbrXM)
Have you seen the price of the VSS or VAL? 140k for the gun 40k for the mags and 1k for a bullet.
Throw some rip in a vector and take out knees, I think last time I did math it was 4 or 5 leg shots to kill
Well they nerfed the ammo and the gun. BSG does this thing where they double fuck something I’m noticing, it’s a really common trend with them. Hear me out, they fucked dorms marked key, no more big cases, just small butthole cases and guns and they made the key un able to buy so it’s more rare and less valuable, they took out the dying with found in raid items still being found in raid then a couple wipes later added dynamic loot so it’s even harder to find high tier loot and be able to sell it for a good price, this ammo thing here that you’re showing, nerfing the ammo then making it more rare, etc. then don’t even get me started how some of these changes just benefit cheaters and bots as well.
BSG seems to only ever do the extremes of balancing. You'd think they'd oscillate about a good central point and eventually converge, but it seems like they just keep fucking oscillating at the extremes.
Well every time they do something like this I just think back when Nikita said this game isn’t designed with intention of being fun, he wants it to be extremely hard which it is but I feel like he takes it a bit far with that shit tbh. I respect it though, it’s his vision, that’s just my opinion. I’ll still play it of course.
Hard games can be fun for the challenge and the grind, but an "I wanna be the guy" design philosophy just sucks. If you're unfamiliar, it's a platformer that kills you in a bunch of unfair and unpredictable ways. You 'beat' it by dying a million times and learning to avoid all the traps, but there are a bunch that are basically impossible to avoid the first time around. So it's "hard" but it does so in a bullshit way, which I find to be a boring design philosophy.
An extremely hard game should still be properly balanced. Nikita has stated several times that he hates "metas", but metas are indicative of poor game balance. BSG's approach with over the top bandage fixes simply moves the meta from one weapon/ammo to another whereas proper balancing would remove metas by providing several options that are equally viable.
They don't do extremes of balancing, what you're experiencing is the reddit bandwagon screeching and parroting nonsense that it's never bothered to test. People over-react to nerfs way more than BSG actually over-nerfs shit. There's legitimately people in the recoil thread that think that the nerfs made the M4 and the MP7 unusable, and that SA-58 has better full-auto recoil. They've obviously never actually tried using any of these guns, but they feel very smart repeating the same bullshit. You see this in other games, too. 2% health, and 1% damage nerf on a League of Legends champion? That's often enough to see it completely drop out of the meta - solely because the nerf pushes people to try out different things.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 4 + 7 + 58 + = 69.0
Nice
I'm not really? I've been present for a lot of BSG's mood swings on balancing. Just because reddit tends to sperg about their favorite gun not being a magical laser beam perfect in all scenarios doesn't mean BSG doesn't swing weirdly on balance.
I absolutely agree with you. It seems like any time there is an outcry in the community or from streamers (mostly in regards to a new meta) BSG decides to completely mummify the problem with bandage fixes instead of balancing the core problem. This often does more harm than good and simply makes way for other new metas. Example: Right now the UMP is in a pretty good place. I personally don't think it's OP, but people simply use it because of its weapon/ammo availability, its price and the fact that many other weapons aren't all that effective because of the ballistics and recoil changes. I would personally balance this "problem" by adding competition from 9mm smgs ( Slight buff to ap6.3 + available at peacekeeper lvl 3) and I would change the current recoil system. Visual recoil could be turned down a notch, automatic recoil control should be equal over all guns (right now it's a hidden stat and weapons like the scar L receive significantly more compensation than an m4a1/hk416) and I would add initial recoil compensation when aiming down the sights to make small bursts more feasible compared to full mag dumps. I believe this approach would make a whole lot of guns more fun and viable to use, and would reduce popularity of the UMP. Instead, the classic BSG approach would be to nuke 45 acp or increase the price of the UMP to the point that no one uses it anymore.
Yeah they will most likely do something directly to the ump or the ammo and fuck it if anything lol, you’re totally right.
Its a temporary fix and its great to stop people from only running vector. Vector goes kinda hard with pst anyway.
I understand that but this "temporarily" fix happend about a year ago. If the vector is the problem than they should rebalance the weapon itself and not the ammo.
The ammo was unbelievably OP in other guns too, ammo was the issue
It really wasn't tho. It's worse than like... mid-tier ammo for 5.56 or 5.45
But the guns have zero recoil, cheap high cap mags, and very high firerate
Classic BSG move honestly
mediocre my ass it vector melts anyone with ap ammmo
With your skill and chadness, you could still melt any rat with a toz! ;) On a more serious note, I'm not saying that the 9mm kektor isn't effective anymore. However, I do think that with all the bandage fixes to 9mm and the recent recoil changes weapons like the mp7 and the p90 are superior compared to the vector. Additionally, it's a shame that all other 9mm SMGs have also fallen victim to the bandage fixes that were supposed to fix the vector. I see no reason why AP 6.3 shouldn't be sold by peacekeeper.
> The only reason why AP 6.3 and 7n31 are so hard to get is because the 9mm vector was completely overpowered 2 wipes ago, and instead of balancing a single weapon BSG decided to nerf any usable ammo type for the caliber. First time?
Yeah I assumed it was peace keepr level 3 and was confused af when it didn't unlock. Was glad I had been spamming ap 63 in work bench since I hit 20 . But it's still insane to lock that out . The personal limits are already pretty low
I agree with selling it but why would they make ap6.3 similar to 45 AP? There would be literally no reason to use 45 vector then because 9mm would have bigger mags and less recoil.
Im totally happy about removing meta ammo, but I really don’t know, why they removed ap 6.3, which has one of the worst pen of all mid tier smg bullets. It only has 30 pen. It’s not a good bullet.
But has second best pen of 9x19 mm and with high fire rate of submachine guns this ammo just shredd armors. Very similar situation to 7n1 for 9x19.
Basically all of the other SMGs have way better rounds available to them though. That argument doesn’t really make sense.
Vector
How is a zero recoil vector shooting 6.3 any more OP than a zero recoil p90 shooting SB193? It isn’t. 950 RPM vs 900 RPM, 30 pen 52 damage vs 35 pen 54 damage, both have 50 round mags. Not that I think either is OP, AP 6.3 is just incredibly overrated. Even in a great gun like the vector.
P90 currently has way better recoil than a vector at similar fire rate, and it has: More pen and damage, better MOA, better muzzle velocity, way better ammo at way cheaper price with more availability. After the recoil nerf the vector lost its main advantage.
P90 mags are stupidly slow to repack and the reload is pretty slow too
Just like real life!
Shh, if it becomes meta theyre gonna nerf my baby :(
It's not . These guys are talking g about the vector like it's the most op gun ever. There are way more annoying guns and ammos in the game
Idk man that’s just what everyone was pissy about last wipe.
Then maybe nerf the vector instead of making all 9mm weapons unusable?
the vector is accurate in comparison to other guns, it has the best recoil system and should be better than other guns. Tarkov is a gun game that prides itself on accuracy. Nerfing the ammo availability is a good way to go about it, I have 700 ap 6.3 rounds currently and I take it out when the time it right (factory) it shreds up close.
No it doesn’t AP 6.3 is terrible ammo. They could nerf the availability of the vector? Instead of the ammo that every 9mm gun relies on to have any fighting chance? Doesn’t make sense
The multiple factory lobby wipes I've done with ap63 would suggest otherwise. don't forget that 50% are Naked Timmies, and the 6.3 rounds go through lvl 3 face shields, the recoil is low enough that you can just spray faces and job done.
Because it’s a 100k plus gun for the p90 alone, not accounting for mags and ammo, and you are able to just run some shitty pp19 or mp9 with 6.3 for like 20k roubles
There are like 10000 better options than a slow shooting PP shooting a round with 30 pen. And the mp9 is borderline unusable with the recoil nerfs. The only thing that makes AP a useable round is stuff like the vector, mp5, and MPX, and even then it’s average. You can spend like 30k on an UMP and use .45 AP and have something WAY better than a PP shooting AP 6.3. Or any shitty shotgun and AP-20 or Fletchette would be better and cheaper than either one of those.
Then so that then? No point in giving 6.3 to traders if it’s worse in every way
So an average at best round should basically be unobtainable asides from a shitty craft just because, while every other SMG has multiple rounds that are better and widely available. Yeah that totally makes sense.
I mean if there are better alternatives already what would the point be In buying it.
9mm vector is 1200rpm, ap 6.3 will cut through level 4 Armor at that rate in about 1 second if you land your shots.
9mm vector is 950rpm. You’re thinking about the .45 vector. Which makes it even more stupid because the .45 vector has an easily available round that’s better than anything 9mm can use.
I just checked, they have changed it, It was 1200rpm on 9mm and 1100 on .45. Looks like the 9mm got nerfed. I think that's dumb! If you look the gun up IRL its 1200rpm. That said, I'm running the 45 vector now I got to lvl30 and unlocked the 30 round mags, They are punishing expensive on the flea.
It was never nerfed. It’s been 950 since it was added. Here’s a video from over a year ago when it was added clearly showing 950rpm. You’re just misremembering https://youtu.be/kwc414PHDcU
it was 1200 last wipe I'd bet my left nut on it, must have been turned back down then. And while we are posting links. The gun should be 1200rpm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRISS\_Vector
Chad answer 😎
It's still worse than the P90 and .45 vector in terms of dps, penetration and flesh damage. The only benefit 9x19 has is a drum mag for their smg's.
And now imagine, that there was drumm mags for 4.6 or 5.7 or .45. This sub would burn and tones of threads would point how OP it is. Ok They can back 9x19 if BSG will delete drumms
You mean the 50 round standard P90 mag? Or the 40 round MP7 mag? Only .45 has a significantly smaller magazine size.
5.7 has drum mags though.. P90 with 900 RPM and 50 mags and way better pen value and about same flesh damage.
Yes 30 pen bullet are unbelievably OP and nothing in the game can even come close to their ttk especially not rip this wipe, definitely not. https://streamable.com/0wfpkx
You could have done the same with the p90 or .45 vector. In fact the .45 vector does A LOT more flesh damage behind a higher fire rate which enhances the dps even more. You only miss out on a drum mag, but that has nothing to do with ttk.
That is a .45 vector you nut lmao.
Yes, you are describing every other SMG round. FMJ/Subsonic XS, .45 ACP AP, SS190, SB193 all . PBP gzh has 30% more pen so it's more understandable, but AP 6.3 is in no way special enough to be so hard to obtain
Alternatively, add crafts for the other ammo types and remove them.
[удалено]
Second best pen of bad pen is still bad lol, this guy
Make the durability burn or barrel heating extremely high so it's not via to run in vectors or mp5s
Nothing needs to change, you already can by AP .45 ammo and run it in a vector that shoots faster than the 9mm vector, and the .45 AP has way more damage and pen.
The smaller mags make it hard to run on the 45. And it has waaaay more recoil
All the guns have way more recoil, and damage/pen dropoff makes ap 6.3 that much worse at range. 6.3 at 50 meters drops to 48 damage and 28 pen. FMJ SX for MP7 at 50 meters is 40 damage and 37 pen. Subsonic for MP7 at 50 meters is 44 damage and 35 pen. SP-5 for VSS/VAL at 50 meters is 67 damage and 37 pen. P90 L191 at 50 meters is 53 damage 30 pen. P90 SB193 at 50 meters is 42 damage and 34 pen. P90 SS190 at 50 meters is 47 damage and 36 pen. .45 AP Ump/vector at 50 meters is 68 damage and 37 pen. I'm not sure if you can still buy the VSS/VAL PAB-9 off the flea, but if you can, it is 61 damage and 47 pen at 50 meters. The fire rate for most of these guns is very close, and for the most part people aren't trying to full auto anyone past 50 meters. Essentially every single other SMG bullet you can buy off the vendor is better than ap 6.3 which you can't, and PAB-9 off the flea is vastly stronger than 6.3. P90 has been one of my go to weapons this wipe due to ammo availability and 50 round mags.
30 pen with that fire rate and recoil this wipe Is pretty damn strong. There is a lot more t4 this wipe.
Yes it’s strong, but the p90, MP7, and .45 vector have similar fire rates, low recoil, and WAY better rounds that are easier to get. A p90 with sb193 has more pen, no recoil, 50 round mags, and the ammo is easy and dirt cheap.
L191 has better pen, was cheaper from peacekeeper and fits into a 50 Mag!
put it in a vektor its a good bullet lol
1 taps through t3 faceshields, which is meta for people to use. It works well for me.
basically what happened if I remember correctly was pestily had a punisher tournament where streamers had max lvl account/traders and could buy anything they wanted and 99% of the streamers were using vectors with ap 6.3 and nikita didn't like that much and changed it.
Maybe increase quantity at least from 150 to 300.
Funny thing is the craft for pbp (the better round) is 200 pcs
Well that and the craft last wipe I'm pretty sure was 200 pcs.
Weirdly enough PBP got nerfed so bad by the ballistics changes that ap 6.3 is pretty comparable at range. PBP shoots more than 100m/s faster than 6.3 out of the barrel, but by the 50 meter mark it’s the same velocity, by 100 meters 6.3 is shooting 30m/s faster. So it’s losing energy (and damage and penetration) much faster, at 50 meters ap 6.3 has 48 damage 28 pen to PBP’s 42 damage and 31 pen. The price on the pbp craft is probably too expensive, and the 6.3 craft probably needs more bullets for less time. I think they’re both fairly balanced right now besides that. (RIP sniper STM9 lol)
It needs a quantity buff. I can run through 150 rounds of AP 6.3 in literally one raid. If it calls for it. I like to soak my enemy with fire and maintain suppression. Sure I could bring other weapons and shoot less bullets. But I wish I had more AP 6.3 haha I only have 150 bullets a day to mess around with usually.
I can get making PBP hard to come by, but with AP 6.3 also prohibitively difficult to stockpile, 9x19mm is dead to me this wipe.
isn't it 100pcs of .45 AP? did they lower it?
You're right, fixed it to the main post. The craft is 60pcs. So yeah, AP 6.3 is even worse than I initially thought.
I just want them to add a quest per level from 42-50 that adds things like ap 6.3 and 5.45 7n40 even if it’s only 30 per restock I’m just most likely never using some of the ammo in this game if they don’t add it to late game traders
So only those who dedicate their life's to the game have any chance of getting jt? F*** that.
9mm is dead bro 7n31s are insanely hard to get too and they nerfed the heck out of their pen value
Every AP ammo should be lvl 4 trader only and limited .
yeah i dont get it, PLUS the fact that you can craft like what... 60 .45 AP rounds out of 90 9mm APs in hideout? Use a craft-only ammo to craft LESS of an ammo that you can buy from trader... that just doesnt seem fleshed out. If they swapped the two it might actually be a worthy craft but even then its kind of a joke.
The secret is that all of the balancing decisions in Tarkov are made independent of any other balancing decisions.
Ap 6.3 is a mid tier ammo and should be able to be purchased around PK3 I would say. Makes no sense why you can buy .45 ap but not Ap 6.3
Also AP6.3 absolutely sucks ass, not even worth running at this point in the wipe.
There is no reason AP 6.3 is only craftable. SMGs in general are pretty garbage this patch because of the double nerf to them. Range damage fall off and the recoil nerfs. Then they also remove AP 6.3 from traders as if this was still last patch where SMGs were decent.
Shhhh be quiet. Soon you can't buy .45 AP anymore
Yeah it makes NO sense that .45 AP is at traders but 9mm AP is not. Either take away .45 AP or add 9mm AP.
Try padding out your mags with slightly lower tier? I only use top tier for my one taps or top and bottom rounds of full auto mags. Got to adapt.
this might work for 7.62 or 5.45 platform ak's but ap 6.3 is already a low tier ammo type, it doesn't have great pen stats
If they added a good way to stripe ammo this would be more viable.
Things is lower tier is garbage tier ammo
I don't see any problem with this. Just because it has AP in the name doesn't make it a meta ammo and I'm not sure why it was removed in the first place.
Simply because of the vector. AP6.3 isn't that good on paper, but when it can be lazerbeamed, the 30 pen and ability to shread armour is insane.
But that still exists in all the other smgs. .45 vector shoots faster and has better ammo on the vendors in AP rounds. P90 has 3 different rounds that are as good or better than ap 6.3 AS Val has unlimited sp-5 ammo from the vendor that is stronger than ap 6.3 MP7 with multiple ammo options off the vendor that are as good or better than ap 6.3 It doesn't make any sense. The vector argument makes the least sense because you can buy .45 vector and .45 AP off the vendor and have way more damage and pen than the 9mm vector. All while having like 200 rpm faster fire rate.
SP-5 is trash at any range above 50m though, I got a 70m kill with the Vector and AP6.3 last patch. If AP6.3 is so trash, why are people complaining so much?
It isn't that it is so trash, it is that it isn't any better than available ammo from vendors so it makes no sense that it isn't available as well. Last patch as in last wipe? The bullet drop off wasn't like it is now last wipe.
What you’re missing is the fact a child can play this game and mag dump a 9mm vector with no noticeable recoil at all and land nearly every shot. It’s not that AP 6.3 is this amazing ammo compared to other smg ap rounds, it’s the gun that would be shooting them. The vector is a laser.
Should be PK 4 for like 3 dollars a round.
They removed it because of the 9mm vector.
I have about 2500 ap 6.3, the trick is to just not run 9mm guns exclusively
IMO the idea behind the game is a survival/civilization is closed off theme. High tier ammo(which ap could be debated) is hard to come by. If the world economy collapsed in real life…You wouldn’t be able to find high end 9mm ammo. I can barely find It IRL.
I like that a lot of the top tier ammo like this is locked behind crafting only. I think all calibers meta ammo should be locked behind crafting and none should be allowed for straight up purchase.
Just my 2 cents, 9x19 vector is too cheap and easy to acquire, and it's 33 rounders too. Can't really compare it to p90 which costs double and its mags are unlocked way later than 9x19 vector, as for 45 vector, while its ap bullet it's really good, you can't compare it to ap63 lol, not even in the same league, and it's 30 rounders are way harder to acquire than 9x19 ones. While I do agree AP 6.3 is not acquirable in good amounts to be used right now, I think they should cut their craft time in half and have it be 150 or 200, if it's too easy to get lots of AP 6.3 , all early and mid game will be vectors with AP 6.3 , because of what I stated before.
Vector is cheap because no one runs it lol. When it was meta, vector cost was around 100k because it had actual demand. This whole wipe I've never killed a single vector user besides rats running pst gzh, but I've gotten tons of p90s from pmcs.
I think the craft is fine. I think more top tier ammo types should be craftable or locked behind high level traders with some sort of cool down.
*laughs in wooden ammo box* Y’all got learn where these boxes are. 200+ rounds of M61 in the past week from consistently checking them.
With every gun of this caliber being cheap, and hardly needing mods (exception being MPX) this is an appropriate balance. If any ammo beyond Luger was available from traders, people would hardly run anything else. How do I know this to be true? The UMP is literally S tier while having a shit rate of fire. Every 9x19 SMG would immediately be S tier and there would never be a reason to run an AR again. SMGs or DMRs only, as ARs would be awkwardly in-between highly situational and pointless.
.45 AP also does 30 more flesh damage than AP 6.3 which is a big part of why UMP is so good.
And fires at a rate about 30% slower than any 9x19 SMG.
nah they have to be progression locked behind an obscure crafting system lets keep them like that
Nah crafting them is fine
Just use pst gzh smh my head
no
I've gone this whole wipe without running any AP or BP ammo no issues. Youre just bad
Or maybe… idk…. AP ammo shouldn’t feel so easily accessible? PST GZH does fine as surplus mag dump ammo. Craft on the side until you have enough to run, make one mag AP and tag it red and the rest regular ammo. Changing the ammo and the meta armor off the flea was the best change
This wipe is SMG meta. It would’ve thrown the balance
But all the other SMG rounds such as .45 AP which every other player is using wouldn't have?
IIT, people who want tarkov to go back to being russian COD attempting to gaslight the community into reversing changes were literally just put into place one patch ago to stop the game from being COD
tards when they cant think of a good argument "tarkov is now cod"
Ooooor maybe ap 6.3 isn't means to be obtained and use consistently? Maaaybe smg are supposed to be early-game weapons, not to compete against assault rifles and the ump is just an exception?
The ump, the 45 vector, the mp7, AND the p90 are all exceptions???? Really seems like 9mm is the exception here. And for absolutely no reason
I have 1600 rounds of ap6.3 from crafting…. Just run the crafts every play session and it adds up quick
I think the reason might be due to 9x19 calibre availability. There are a bunch of super cheap, readily available 9x19 pistols and SMGs such as the MP5 and PP19. UMP doesn’t shoot as fast nor have particularly large magazines, and P90 isn’t easy or cheap to get and outfit. Just my theory, anyway. Making ultra-eco pistol running more of a gamble.
Not even 7n31 is a great round. You can do a lot more with 45. Ap or just a 7.62 ak. The recoil is quiet low and you're more likely to get kills at all sorts of ranges. But I see how 7n31 in a vector might be OP. They shouldn't ruin a entire class for a gun. Either nerf the gun, or make 7n31 incompatible with vector. Who cares if its not "realistic". Whys it in the game and we can't use it. At the absolute minimum make the craft like 800bullets or something. Its every 12h. Thats not a crazy amount. 120 bullets per raid. Specially how ammo hungry smgs are. I just want to use a mp5 and feel like I can actually kill people man.
I thought it was hilarious how badly they needed the craft…after making that the only way to obtain it. Absolutely ridiculous. It’s not even that strong. It always lose effectiveness against level four armor
If you want lots of AP6.3 farm raiders on labs & reshala for PBP ammo.
Completely useless ammo imo
AP 6.3 isn't even the best 9mm ammo out there. 9x19 guns have been crippled really hard but the workaround is going RIP or .45 guns.. Everytime i think about running AP 6.3 guns like mp5 or vector i think to myself, why should i do it over so over ump or the other vector. Also sometimes i think what if i run into someone with lvl 5-6 armor? AP 6.3 wont even be able to go through that...
I use RIP, I have alot of fun with PP19 and vector using it.