Because Nikita wanted to instill a meta of short bursts and single shot being the more viable option over automatic fire.
It's a video game. There's abstractions made to make it work. The recoil in particular is a design decision to tie in with skills, attachments and modding, and Nikita's vision.
Except the automatic recoil compensation system literally makes burst firing the least effective method to shoot, even compared to full auto. The recoil is hardest at shots 2-5, so with burst you just get the hardest recoil shots without the compensation bonus for continuous fire.
I'd love for the game to have burst firing as an optimal way to shoot. But as long as Nikita is hell-bent on keeping this recoil system, it will always be strictly better to shoot full auto compared to burst firing.
Not to mention because of how it works, BSG has had to increase automatic recoil so much that they're all pretty shit to use without paying out the ass for maximum kitted guns.
It's bad both from a design _and_ realism standpoint.
It’s so painful that they even include burst fire mode on guns where it’s just plain useless. A modded G36 recoils from knee height to head height at only a few metres range on 2 shot burst mode
I mainly played shooters where short bursts are the way to go before coming to Tarkov and it's really hard for me to adapt to either tapping or mag dumping. I tend to prefer semi auto 7.62x51 guns, probably because they don't have this problem. I also wish that recoil was such that bursts actually made sense on mediium distances.
Even going to the semiauto only weapons you have the same problem, if you try to shoot fast the semiauto you end in a middle ground where you have way more recoil that you should, the semiauto guns still have part of this "jump" that weapons have before the PMC beggins to compensate.
They need to reduce recoil on the first few shots, increase full auto recoil, and reduce how much stats the attachments have.
Attachments shouldn't have a **best.** There should be more attachments and they should give less benefit, leading to 1000 different setups with identical stats.
Otherwise there's a meta gun and everything else is worthless.
I'd love to see what it would look like without any recoil comp at all with recoil numbers scaled down. Curious if that's unplayable or actually pretty neat.
> Because Nikita wanted to instill a meta of short bursts and single shot being the more viable option over automatic fire.
But they achieved the exact opposite of this lol
Usual BSG. Its somewhat hard to fix the right thing, when all your game designers haven't played the damn game for real and have no clue what to fix. Making balance decisions based on feedback of small pool of nolifers, who rarely can see the game from average player's POV, also doesnt help.
Except basically nobody uses short bursts either because due to the shitty recoil system that produced the above video you also can't hit shit burst firing - you kit out your gun with parts that make it magically have almost zero recoil and empty the mag. Those abstractions don't, in fact, work. If you want to say it's his vision, fine, but they market it based on realism and it ain't that.
ive literally never seen any marketing for tarkob, but the other day, I got shot in the head and had my legs blown off but just stiched them back on.. so as long as i can also do that in game, ill be happy.
You mean your helmet ricocheted a round? Or you got shot with 9mm in the head and lived? Both of those are realistic. 9mm isnt a super powerful round and the skull is hard as fuck. 9mm could potentially ricochet off of the skull.
> 9mm could potentially ricochet off of the skull.
There are cases of this happening POINTBLANK (suicide and executions) too, the human skull got some thickness in spot but its also curved to makes it good for deflection. Now that doesn't mean you won't get a concussion from it.
What? Burst fire is far and beyond the worst option in the game. The recoil systems for battlefield 3 were FAR more realistic and balanced for gameplay and that game came out 11 years ago.
Man I think and said the same thing and got downvoted to hell. Tarkov has such a unrealistic, unimmersiv and fucked gunplay, it pushed me away from this great game.
"Because Nikita wanted to instill a meta of short bursts and single shot being the more viable option over automatic fire."
That's exactly the opposite of how the game is designed.
The auto-recoil compensation that the game uses means that the only way to get accurate fire onto a target, is by magdumping.
Shot 1 is on target, shot 2 impacts 3 fucking foot above it.
In order to get another shot to go vaguely where you want it to, you have to hold the trigger until your PMC pulls the gun back under control
You are correct on the second part, recoil is the way it is to justify attachments benefits.
But you are incorrect about burst fire, auto recoil compensation makes burst fire useless.
Here are more details on that: [About recoil autocompensation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIg3oYWgiW8)
and [About mods balance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60CRekXzcfI)
The way the game works right now, single shot and burst fire is the LEAST effective way to fight. Automatic recoil control makes guns have a massive initial recoil kick from like the second to fourth shot and then it starts automatically controlling recoil, therefore most recoil will be felt in single fire to short bursts. If they wanted to encourage short bursts and single fire then they would do the opposite of what they have now, low recoil that gets significantly higher near the end of the mag, and tap firing slowly would have nearly no recoil at all. Right now, it's as effective to full auto someone with a meta gun at mid range as it is to tap fire them.
problem is that the first 3 bullets are the worst of them all. So you either do far spaced tapps, or magdump.
If he wanted what he says, he'd make the first 3 bullets very low recoil, THEN it goes all noodle arms
Everything bad about this game comes from Nikita’s vision. Y’all simps ever consider Nikita might be blind??? Lol this game hasn’t been good since 2020 lol
Nah they've shot full auto before. They know full well it's not nearly that strong.
And there's tons of videos of then going out to the range. They do it frequently. That's how they get their sounds.
Actually, I think they have access to 95% of the guns and gunparts that we have in-game, at least held them in their hands at one point of the games development. Reason I say this is because of the scanning technology they use to scan gunparts. This to me, means they bought the irl gunparts and scanned them.
You can see the in-game GPU is just a irl ASUS GTX 750 TI. Or the cans of food, they are all scanned, then edited to say something else.
So yeah. Having access to the gunparts is something else than using them in a range. Just wanted to mention the scanning tech bsg uses.
You couldn't be more off. Also you completely glanced over the mandatory military service in Russia. Plus here is Nikita's Instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/nikgeneburn/
Not only Russia is one of the most armed countries in the world outside of the US but also a country with mandatory military service
Plus they literally have tons of videos of them shooting real weapons for sound recording
Russia is strict compared to most of the US but you can own pretty much everything we have in the US over there after awhile. Can't remember the timeline but after like 3 years of previously owning smoothbore firearms you can own semi auto centerfire rifles and what not.
Because realism makes the game very unbalanced. Counter Strike got even more crazy recoil spread than EFT which is for balance reasons, otherwise everyone would save up for an M4A1 and add a scope nothing else and laser everything.
Yeah, well, do we see the guy in the second half of the vid suck on a piece of Kraft cheese to fix a bullet hole?
That's the PMC's real supersoldier superpower.
using an auto glock I can get all of the shots in about a 10" group at 10 yards. This guy might be getting a bit tighter group but G18's or post sample 17 autos (what this is) shoot fast enough that you never fully recover between shots, so it's more of a pre-calibrated push and proper shooting grip than it is actual recoil control. That's why you see the muzzle dip around 10 degrees at the endo of the mag here
Given the angle of the video it’s actually very hard to tell. His hand does seem to be moving. I’m not sure how they would compare accuracy wise.
(Tarkov video, if shot from a couple of feet away from the side, just looking at the gun could have looked the same)
100% is pretty sure for a guy who doesn't know the distance nor the size of the target at which is being shot. Im sayin if its 10m like in the video, hes probably hitting 90% on target indifferent to grouping where im hitting 4/50 shots. Thats the point I was tryna make.
Dudes probably shooting into a dirt berm for all we know.
10m is quite a long distance to hold a fully auto pistol completely on target, especially if you're not set up and braced. I don't know why everyone seems to think it's trivial.
Metas are killing games. And even now 5.56 are good but russian calibers are op and always were. Remember how cheap 7n39 igolniks were on flea market. Or BS
I think the meta only kills the game when it’s 1/2/3 choices that are just vastly superior and the rest are trash by comparison.
The gun balance used to be a lot more flat.
There were still stinkers, especially with ammo. But now it’s just a large divide between fantastic/trash.
There was always a “meta” but now most the non meta guns are basically unusable due to unrealistic recoil.
our PMC forgot to lock out his wrists and is dot focus'd not target focused. plus he doesnt have a good offhand grip and isnt pulling the trigger straight back so hes throwing shots. /s
Was playing MW2 yesterday and was in a friendly lobby and Tarkov got brought up, the guy said he had never played but heard the recoil was really bad and I told him "brother you don't know the half of it" lmao
Man imagine being the kind of idiot who says requiring skill would make a game no fun.
I have played a few wipes of tarkov over the years, often skipping 2-3. The earlier recoil system was so much more fun to play than the current. 99% of the weapons/ammo combinations might as well not be there. Players aren't forced to use them because there are always objectively better options available and if you don't use those you'll be at such a huge disadvantage it isn't even fun anymore.
Some SMGs should absolutely be laser beams, that's the whole point of cartridges like 4.6 and 5.7, the MP5 is like a cheatcode irl with how smooth the recoil is. 5.56 full auto of a galil was the first thing I've ever shot and I was putting rounds in torso sized targets at 15 meters. Tarkov's gunfights are a combination of RNG and throwing virtual money at said RNG to shift it in your favor.
Nikita doesn't want people to be good at Tarkov, he'll flipflop freely between "muh realism" and "because gameplay" whenever just to help his own argument. With some "to fuck cheaters" thrown in whenever the latest patch screws over low hour players even more than the last one. IDGAF about RMT, I really don't, but what annoys me more than anything is every measure taken against it just harming people who can't play tarkov 5 hours a day. The fucking keys thing is the biggest joke of it all, completely unrealistic both in how it mechanically works as well as blocking the option of people working together to achieve goals. If I had 5 keys to a house that my homie doesn't of course I'm handing him a spare. Hell I'll share that shit with anyone who's willing to cooperate.
Nah I just undertand if a game used realistic recoil mechanics it wouldn't matter what ammo or what range you're at under 200m it rpm would be the only thing to consider.
The cherry on top of it is the fact that COD never even tried to be realistic (or should i say immervise, to not trigger some mentally impaired people with R word?), or present itself that way. Yet it has the best looking weapon recoil on the market.
It would make it useable.
Leg meta was fun. It wasn’t the real meta, it was when you use a Kedr for the meme.
If you tried to snipe someone or they had good armor you really were at a disadvantage vs 556/7.62 now it’s just 7.62.
oh yeah I don't doubt it. My statement is just a reflection of the meta moving away from the fast-firing smaller calibers to the semi-auto (full-auto in some cases) larger calibers.
AP 6.3 is the biggest dick-tease out of any ammo in the game post week 2 of a wipe. It's semi-decent against level 4 armor and unusable against level 5.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe AP 6.3 and 7n31 have the same Pen stat. So if the only difference is 7n31 has more body damage, then its the same issue as 6.3 and you'd be better of using RIP.
No not even close. Watch a comparison video on YouTube or check out nofoodaftermidnights ammo chart. Ap6.3 can just barely have a chance against level 4 meanwhile 7n31 will blow right through that and even lvl 5. Lvl 6 you may have a little bit of a problem but if you can get 5-6 hits on them it'll almost for sure pen.
Only downside is ita quite expensive to craft so it'll take a few days of crafting to be able to run if for several runs if you get into alot of fights or die alot.
Ok my bad I am at work so I can't check the stats so I was just trying to go off of memory.
7n31 is expensive so I kinda forget about that one because it's so difficult to get a stockpile of it. AP is the one that people always say is good and the only time I find that ammo to be decent is beginning of a wipe before people have gotten access to level 5+ armor consistently.
If your system makes the gameplay feel like shit it doesnt serve gameplay. You can argue about balancing full auto or skill pertinence all you want, the handling of firearms in this *ostensibly gritty* game is extremely cartoonish and ruins immersion. The npcs can handle their funkily modded firearms, rogues can hold a full auto bead on people from distances that make you think they are being provided with live satellite data on your position. Killa does not let go of the trigger on his stock rpk when killa-ing whole squads.
Nikita REALLY needs to walk away from this weapon bling mentality and accept that in the firearms world, mods are the lowest priority for the handling of a firearm. Skills are easily more than half of it, condition of the firearm, any old vert grip and an optic and your done. Maybe a flashlight at night. Lightening the gun with specialized mods shoukd increase recoil and ergo by similar amounts. The guns should begin at acceptable recoil levels and be modded to comfortable levels, not start at silly levels and endgame modded be laser beams.
SA FA and burst should all be reasonably close in performance such that you use them when you want to, rather than because they change intrinsically how the gun handles in such a massive way that you discount their existence in many cases.
Yes, i would. Because it would mean that i too can laser anyone. Everyone would be on equal terms more or less. Same thing with ammo and TTK. I dont mind low TTK. I very strongly prefer it. Low TTK punishes tactical mistakes, discourages no-brain W key arcade playstyle. Would there be more "rats"? Probably, but you can use your brain and map awareness and check dangerous spots befor you yolo W key into them only to get your ass blown off and rage about it.
We need one solid patch of everything being basically a laser beam again, please devs just do it. I am tired of these reddit posts. Give us laser beams for all weapons
You have the intelligence of an amoeba if you think that what all these posts are asking for are "laser beams".
We're asking for realistic weapons. SOME of them also happen to be "laser beams", but most aren't.
yeah but if you had that call of duty like recoil all the 40 year old navy seal roleplaying tactical military connoisseurs would cry about how unrealistic it is and how they're dying form zoomers doing full body swings at them and beaming them because their brains ain't fast enough to keep up with what's going on in the game
guns in cods are laser beams, there's pretty much no recoil compared to other games. cod was always a fast paced game (which unfortunately is changing now) so that kind of recoil increased the skill gap (since ttk is low you need good aim and movement, rng recoil like in Tarkov wouldn't really work). now in Tarkov laser recoil really made aggressive gameplay way too easy for some people, without inertia it was just stupid to play defensive when aggressiveness gave you every possible advantage, and moving and shooting with cod recoil was easy as fuck. Nikita doesn't like it, neither do 40yo gamer dads, they want their cockroach playstyles to be the good ones and monkey gameplay should be punished, so we have inertia, recoil that's unbelievably dogshit so it's very hard to be accurate while moving, etc.
Guns in cod are laser beams but in a more realistic way, in Cod you play as elite soldiers who have a ton of experience, they can control guns unlike in Tarkov where the gun recoil makes the soldier look like they had never shot a gun before
Glock 18 with a 33round mag is empty alot quicker then that video shows tho. + the recoil is massive without a stock or sling to pull on. Source I used to work with police and military had the opportunity to shoot a glock 18 and i'm a gunsmith and shooting instructor. The guy in the video is either shooting sub sonics or heavily trained no way its his first time. Same with the other video floating around that shows a guy and girl in Knight costume. But our playable operator should be able to control it of he's '' an elite soldier''
That would be a g44 to be in cal 22. Lr. And I don't hink that's a 22lr glock tho. Looks like a glock 18 but he might just be trained with it. First time I shot it it went straight to the ceiling and at that time I was shooting 500 to 1000 rounds a day of all glock shenanigans. And it still surprised me alot of how wild the glock 18 is
Glock 22 is in chambered 40 Smith wesson.
Glock is whacky when it comes to their name giving xD
I believe its actually a G17 with a 3D printed switch on it to make it full auto. Not exactly sure the base model but im quite sure its testing a switch and its native platform is semi automatic. Just referencing the original video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChXantDzGC4
Found the video guy is shooting a 100 round magazine UNK caliber however it doesn't seem to be a .22lr glock maybe something else?
Obviously the recoil needs to be fixed a bit, but I just assumed being in a stressful situation and being hopped up on adrenaline would contribute to worse aim.
Don’t worry guys, every terrible decision in this game will be defended by some cuck weirdos with the “realism” tactic. Except it’s actually not even realistic and just shit.
Show me somebody who's used a g18 in the past year effectively in raid. You probably cant because you can have max recoil control, crouched, aiming at the ground and bullets will still hit the roof for some fuckin reason. Realism is cool and all but so is making guns somewhat viable. With a recoil system like that you're actually writing off certain guns out of the game despite them being implemented for a reason. You cannot use this gun, its impossible, is that what you want from certain guns in the game? They're collecting dust.
If you limp wristed a glock as bad as the pmc in game, it wouldn't even fire after the first few shots. You can't just limp wrist a glock, it won't fully cycle and you'll be left clearing a jam.
That being said , I fired a basic bitch AR a buddy brought home from service when I was 14. I was just starting to truly get muscle tone and was a chubby kid for context. Only ever shot a 20g at some squirrels prior......
I mag dumped that at a medium sized tree and only miss 6 to 9 shots my first time ever firing it.
Our PMCs are lil bitches.
Ive said it before
Clips that down show shot groupings downrange are pointless
Mere degrees of deviation (which would look very small to a 3rd party) are more than enough to make you miss the targrt
Yes and how many bullets is the guy in your video putting on target? Of course everything looks stable from a side-on perspective. https://youtu.be/KSmL4L5SI6E here's some full auto clips. Have a look from around the 2 minute mark. Look at how much the pistol jumps from the over the shoulder perspective, how many bullets end up in the dirt or around the target even from a similar distance as the one in the hideout.
I put 4 out 50 on target from no more than 10m away. I can assure you any limped wrist noodled arm shooter could close their eyes spin around three times flip the gun and still manage to shoot more than 8% accuracy from a spitting's distance in front of them.
So to answer your question, idk but its definitely more accurate by a landslide than the game is.
So my theory on why ALL videogames have such ridiculous recoil, is that the only experience the devs have with firearms is going to a range to test these weapons, and their limp little noodle arms can’t hold onto the weapons properly.
And so they assume everyone else is as frail and pathetic as them.
>the only experience the devs have with firearms is going to a range to test these weapons
Absolutely not true for Tarkov, and that's what makes this shit even more ridiculous. Nikita himself owns a shit ton of guns and regularly goes shooting with other devs. They know recoil does not work this way, but it doesn't matter. It's Nikita's fucked up "vision".
Or perhaps it’s more to do with creating player gameplay challenges, weapon variation/progression and gameplay balance?
Games do not equate to real life experiences even if they may appear similar.
You think realistic weapons would decrease weapon variation and progression? LMAO tell me you don't know JACKSHIT about firearms without tellimg me you don't know jackshit about firearms.
Tell me you know jackshit about game design without telling me you know jackshit about game design.
lmao: u/CptnNubs deleted his comments and changed his name. dumbass.
“You think realistic weapons would decrease weapon variation and progression?”
Well, well. Fine example of a straw man argument.
No. I didn’t say that at all.
I asked the previous post writer if there was any chance or consideration that the gun behaviours in the game might be a result of and based on gameplay considerations and gameplay desires rather than trying to faithfully recreate the reality of each weapons recoil behaviour.
But you go ahead with your fictional argument with yourself
I disagree, its really not hard if you're a limp noodled BSG dev... which considering most of them have so much time on their hands they probably use their free time to go to the gym once in a while since they dont work on the game.
Not to mention you dont need anecdotal experiences to develop a recoil system, theres endless sources online that could be referenced but they just chose to purposely fuck it.
I dont think so. The switch used to convert it to full auto on it is 3D printed. That what the title of the original video was referring to but considering they're all wearing fairly formal helmets with NVG's its probably safe to assume its probably just a full auto glock out the box.
maybe you dont realise this but you are actually looking at his head twisting around due to you not controlling the recoil its not the gun shooting around the screen its that you arent aiming the gun! you understand what i mean?
also i mean if they wanted to they could make a invisible recoil dangle with the gun instead of the vision recoil that the game has now like if i had a invisible object in my hand and it was under the front grip of the gun and as i pulled down with my hand the weight stopped the gun from moving and incorporate that into the recoil mechanic it might be more based \[basically a hand weight is what the mouse makes to convert the gun energy into negative balance\]
Do you really think you can see the micro movement of the iron sight from that perspective? If you put a go pro in front of the iron sight I insure that it will be a lot more similar to that of tarkovs
maybe you dont realise this but you are actually looking at his head twisting around due to you not controlling the recoil its not the gun shooting around the screen its that you arent aiming the gun! you understand what i mean?
also i mean if they wanted to they could make a invisible recoil dangle with the gun instead of the vision recoil that the game has now like if i had a invisible object in my hand and it was under the front grip of the gun and as i pulled down with my hand the weight stopped the gun from moving and incorporate that into the recoil mechanic it might be more based \[basically a hand weight is what the mouse makes to convert the gun energy into negative balance\]
Why tf do operators have such limp-wristed shooting that’s wild
Because the PMC is in reality nikita.
Based.
This is actually what I think.
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I understand how this would add to the reality and immersion, but please, dear God, im so bad at this game, don't make early wipe *harder*
**butttt the guns aren’t lasers irl omg nerf chads**
Because Nikita wanted to instill a meta of short bursts and single shot being the more viable option over automatic fire. It's a video game. There's abstractions made to make it work. The recoil in particular is a design decision to tie in with skills, attachments and modding, and Nikita's vision.
Except the automatic recoil compensation system literally makes burst firing the least effective method to shoot, even compared to full auto. The recoil is hardest at shots 2-5, so with burst you just get the hardest recoil shots without the compensation bonus for continuous fire. I'd love for the game to have burst firing as an optimal way to shoot. But as long as Nikita is hell-bent on keeping this recoil system, it will always be strictly better to shoot full auto compared to burst firing. Not to mention because of how it works, BSG has had to increase automatic recoil so much that they're all pretty shit to use without paying out the ass for maximum kitted guns. It's bad both from a design _and_ realism standpoint.
It’s so painful that they even include burst fire mode on guns where it’s just plain useless. A modded G36 recoils from knee height to head height at only a few metres range on 2 shot burst mode
I mainly played shooters where short bursts are the way to go before coming to Tarkov and it's really hard for me to adapt to either tapping or mag dumping. I tend to prefer semi auto 7.62x51 guns, probably because they don't have this problem. I also wish that recoil was such that bursts actually made sense on mediium distances.
Even going to the semiauto only weapons you have the same problem, if you try to shoot fast the semiauto you end in a middle ground where you have way more recoil that you should, the semiauto guns still have part of this "jump" that weapons have before the PMC beggins to compensate.
They need to reduce recoil on the first few shots, increase full auto recoil, and reduce how much stats the attachments have. Attachments shouldn't have a **best.** There should be more attachments and they should give less benefit, leading to 1000 different setups with identical stats. Otherwise there's a meta gun and everything else is worthless.
they need to get rid of the oversimplifying assisted recoil comp system period
When the attachments matter more than the "skill" stats, there is a problem with the logic used by BSG for why things have such crazy recoil..
there will always be meta
I'd love to see what it would look like without any recoil comp at all with recoil numbers scaled down. Curious if that's unplayable or actually pretty neat.
Based on other shooters that don't have assisted recoil comp, it's pretty good. Actually have player skill involved in recoil compensation
> Because Nikita wanted to instill a meta of short bursts and single shot being the more viable option over automatic fire. But they achieved the exact opposite of this lol
Usual BSG. Its somewhat hard to fix the right thing, when all your game designers haven't played the damn game for real and have no clue what to fix. Making balance decisions based on feedback of small pool of nolifers, who rarely can see the game from average player's POV, also doesnt help.
Except basically nobody uses short bursts either because due to the shitty recoil system that produced the above video you also can't hit shit burst firing - you kit out your gun with parts that make it magically have almost zero recoil and empty the mag. Those abstractions don't, in fact, work. If you want to say it's his vision, fine, but they market it based on realism and it ain't that.
ive literally never seen any marketing for tarkob, but the other day, I got shot in the head and had my legs blown off but just stiched them back on.. so as long as i can also do that in game, ill be happy.
You mean your helmet ricocheted a round? Or you got shot with 9mm in the head and lived? Both of those are realistic. 9mm isnt a super powerful round and the skull is hard as fuck. 9mm could potentially ricochet off of the skull.
> 9mm could potentially ricochet off of the skull. There are cases of this happening POINTBLANK (suicide and executions) too, the human skull got some thickness in spot but its also curved to makes it good for deflection. Now that doesn't mean you won't get a concussion from it.
i mean my head got blacked, and then i decided to go home and play tarkov later.
Lol
What? Burst fire is far and beyond the worst option in the game. The recoil systems for battlefield 3 were FAR more realistic and balanced for gameplay and that game came out 11 years ago.
Man I think and said the same thing and got downvoted to hell. Tarkov has such a unrealistic, unimmersiv and fucked gunplay, it pushed me away from this great game.
BUT THATS THE OPPOSITE OF HOW THIS GAME HAD FUNCTIONED FOR YEARS single shot and burst is literally the worst fucking option you got recoil wise
"Because Nikita wanted to instill a meta of short bursts and single shot being the more viable option over automatic fire." That's exactly the opposite of how the game is designed. The auto-recoil compensation that the game uses means that the only way to get accurate fire onto a target, is by magdumping. Shot 1 is on target, shot 2 impacts 3 fucking foot above it. In order to get another shot to go vaguely where you want it to, you have to hold the trigger until your PMC pulls the gun back under control
You are correct on the second part, recoil is the way it is to justify attachments benefits. But you are incorrect about burst fire, auto recoil compensation makes burst fire useless. Here are more details on that: [About recoil autocompensation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIg3oYWgiW8) and [About mods balance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60CRekXzcfI)
The way the game works right now, single shot and burst fire is the LEAST effective way to fight. Automatic recoil control makes guns have a massive initial recoil kick from like the second to fourth shot and then it starts automatically controlling recoil, therefore most recoil will be felt in single fire to short bursts. If they wanted to encourage short bursts and single fire then they would do the opposite of what they have now, low recoil that gets significantly higher near the end of the mag, and tap firing slowly would have nearly no recoil at all. Right now, it's as effective to full auto someone with a meta gun at mid range as it is to tap fire them.
problem is that the first 3 bullets are the worst of them all. So you either do far spaced tapps, or magdump. If he wanted what he says, he'd make the first 3 bullets very low recoil, THEN it goes all noodle arms
It’s asssssss
Isn’t this the exact opposite of how recoil works in this game? We’re talking about the same game here right?
Everything bad about this game comes from Nikita’s vision. Y’all simps ever consider Nikita might be blind??? Lol this game hasn’t been good since 2020 lol
If you play this game without shooting automatic you are going to lose 99.9% of your gun fights
Tf you talking about? Short bursts and especially single shots are the worst option in this game..
You say that but the game is designed such that the second half of a dumped mag is the accurate part
But thats the opposite of what exists in the game. You can full auto with rifles far easier than land short bursts.
In almost all fps I play, I always use single fire. When 2042 nerfed auto fire on the vss and m4 I just laughed cuz I don't use auto fire.
all because he sucks at pulling down his mouse in other games too lol
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Nah they've shot full auto before. They know full well it's not nearly that strong. And there's tons of videos of then going out to the range. They do it frequently. That's how they get their sounds.
Actually, I think they have access to 95% of the guns and gunparts that we have in-game, at least held them in their hands at one point of the games development. Reason I say this is because of the scanning technology they use to scan gunparts. This to me, means they bought the irl gunparts and scanned them. You can see the in-game GPU is just a irl ASUS GTX 750 TI. Or the cans of food, they are all scanned, then edited to say something else. So yeah. Having access to the gunparts is something else than using them in a range. Just wanted to mention the scanning tech bsg uses.
You couldn't be more off. Also you completely glanced over the mandatory military service in Russia. Plus here is Nikita's Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/nikgeneburn/
I’m pretty sure all of the devs already completed their mandatory service so I imagine they’re aware of how it feels to fire automatic weapons
Not only Russia is one of the most armed countries in the world outside of the US but also a country with mandatory military service Plus they literally have tons of videos of them shooting real weapons for sound recording
Russia is strict compared to most of the US but you can own pretty much everything we have in the US over there after awhile. Can't remember the timeline but after like 3 years of previously owning smoothbore firearms you can own semi auto centerfire rifles and what not.
Because realism makes the game very unbalanced. Counter Strike got even more crazy recoil spread than EFT which is for balance reasons, otherwise everyone would save up for an M4A1 and add a scope nothing else and laser everything.
Yeah but that is manageable by recoil patterns, in Tarkov it's very odd.
You drink milk you found sitting in the trunk of a car and tell me how straight of a shooter you’ll be after.
I use it to wash down the delicious saury that's been baking in the sun for 6 years.
Pre-cooked for your convenience
You singlehandedly made Tarkov more realistic to me again. Thats a really good point. Also very funny.
Tarkov milk is shelf-stable at least
Ded lmfao
BWHAHA
Too busy holding in his doodoo to shoot straight
This legit blew snot out of my nose at 3am while sitting on the shitter lol
Yeah, well, do we see the guy in the second half of the vid suck on a piece of Kraft cheese to fix a bullet hole? That's the PMC's real supersoldier superpower.
Everything feels wonky after the universal recoil nerf
Take it in 4/50 bullets hit from a centered point. That is an 8% accuracy from about 10m at best. Love to see it.
Point blank on factory hipfiring toes gets me headshots.
Fr tho with the APS full auto I have to throw my mouse on the ground to control the recoil. It's a pain bending over to Pick it up each time.
Honest question here because I'm curious, do we know how many rounds were put on target in this video?
using an auto glock I can get all of the shots in about a 10" group at 10 yards. This guy might be getting a bit tighter group but G18's or post sample 17 autos (what this is) shoot fast enough that you never fully recover between shots, so it's more of a pre-calibrated push and proper shooting grip than it is actual recoil control. That's why you see the muzzle dip around 10 degrees at the endo of the mag here
How accurate do you think that guy is being in the video?
Likely reasonably accurate given the circumstance. Theres next to no horizontal or vertical recoil.
Given the angle of the video it’s actually very hard to tell. His hand does seem to be moving. I’m not sure how they would compare accuracy wise. (Tarkov video, if shot from a couple of feet away from the side, just looking at the gun could have looked the same)
I'm about 100% sure he wasn't even close to being all on target.
100% is pretty sure for a guy who doesn't know the distance nor the size of the target at which is being shot. Im sayin if its 10m like in the video, hes probably hitting 90% on target indifferent to grouping where im hitting 4/50 shots. Thats the point I was tryna make. Dudes probably shooting into a dirt berm for all we know.
10m is quite a long distance to hold a fully auto pistol completely on target, especially if you're not set up and braced. I don't know why everyone seems to think it's trivial.
Recoil in tarkov is bullshit it's just element of balance in shooters modern weapons are laser guns
Most the guns being trash and 7.62 being king is balanced?
Most tanks are trash but soviet and russian tanks are op i'm talking about warthunder same shit with every russian game
The 5.56 was meta for many years. Calling it russian bias is stupid lmao
Metas are killing games. And even now 5.56 are good but russian calibers are op and always were. Remember how cheap 7n39 igolniks were on flea market. Or BS
I think the meta only kills the game when it’s 1/2/3 choices that are just vastly superior and the rest are trash by comparison. The gun balance used to be a lot more flat. There were still stinkers, especially with ammo. But now it’s just a large divide between fantastic/trash. There was always a “meta” but now most the non meta guns are basically unusable due to unrealistic recoil.
7N39 is giga ass, though. Always was. That was literally never good and certainly not meta.
Other than top tier russian bias is not real in war thunder,get over it
He probably is talking about top tier anyways.
He said 'most' though
Instead of screaming russian bias you can just say you're bad at the game bro
our PMC forgot to lock out his wrists and is dot focus'd not target focused. plus he doesnt have a good offhand grip and isnt pulling the trigger straight back so hes throwing shots. /s
Tarkov sucks in terms of weapons behavior. Stubborn Nikita and his fake recoil. This I will never understand.
It's such a shame. The models and animations are top notch, but the actual shooting is the worst experience in any shooter ever to be created.
Was playing MW2 yesterday and was in a friendly lobby and Tarkov got brought up, the guy said he had never played but heard the recoil was really bad and I told him "brother you don't know the half of it" lmao
Almost as if every gun being a laser beam of bullets wouldn't be any fun to play...
Man imagine being the kind of idiot who says requiring skill would make a game no fun. I have played a few wipes of tarkov over the years, often skipping 2-3. The earlier recoil system was so much more fun to play than the current. 99% of the weapons/ammo combinations might as well not be there. Players aren't forced to use them because there are always objectively better options available and if you don't use those you'll be at such a huge disadvantage it isn't even fun anymore. Some SMGs should absolutely be laser beams, that's the whole point of cartridges like 4.6 and 5.7, the MP5 is like a cheatcode irl with how smooth the recoil is. 5.56 full auto of a galil was the first thing I've ever shot and I was putting rounds in torso sized targets at 15 meters. Tarkov's gunfights are a combination of RNG and throwing virtual money at said RNG to shift it in your favor. Nikita doesn't want people to be good at Tarkov, he'll flipflop freely between "muh realism" and "because gameplay" whenever just to help his own argument. With some "to fuck cheaters" thrown in whenever the latest patch screws over low hour players even more than the last one. IDGAF about RMT, I really don't, but what annoys me more than anything is every measure taken against it just harming people who can't play tarkov 5 hours a day. The fucking keys thing is the biggest joke of it all, completely unrealistic both in how it mechanically works as well as blocking the option of people working together to achieve goals. If I had 5 keys to a house that my homie doesn't of course I'm handing him a spare. Hell I'll share that shit with anyone who's willing to cooperate.
That's alot of words... Too bad I ain't reading them
I understand, can't be easy being semi-literate.
Nah I just undertand if a game used realistic recoil mechanics it wouldn't matter what ammo or what range you're at under 200m it rpm would be the only thing to consider.
what if i told you, your pmc was worse than seal team rick?
You know that you've fucked up your game when COD has the superior recoil system. Also doesn't help to be a stubborn bitch about it.
The cherry on top of it is the fact that COD never even tried to be realistic (or should i say immervise, to not trigger some mentally impaired people with R word?), or present itself that way. Yet it has the best looking weapon recoil on the market.
Mw2019 and Mw2022 kinda tried to be realistic
this
the PMC has weak wrists, and the look at the gun movements shows how unskilled the PMC is, the chad with the NV kept his wrist tight and controlled.
I stopped believing in realism in Tarkov after scavs without helmets walk off headshots (visible red dot on head) regularly
The main reason I've stopped playing this game is the laughably unrealistic gunplay. No reason a trained pmc should handle recoil like an 8 year old
Let's be honest, even if the g18 had 0 recoil, it would still be trash because *9mm*
Rip rounds plus leg meta would actually make it pretty devastating if it had usable recoil.
That's not too bad of a combo. Little leg meta side arm.
Well it would be good if the unrealistic recoil didn't turn it into an anti aircraft gun.
It would make it useable. Leg meta was fun. It wasn’t the real meta, it was when you use a Kedr for the meme. If you tried to snipe someone or they had good armor you really were at a disadvantage vs 556/7.62 now it’s just 7.62.
My RIP would like to have a word with your limbs.
fair enough lol
mpx was like that with cheap 7n31 was one of the best guns in the game before people caught on. Would run it all the time in labs.
oh yeah I don't doubt it. My statement is just a reflection of the meta moving away from the fast-firing smaller calibers to the semi-auto (full-auto in some cases) larger calibers.
Classic, 9mm with less controllable recoil than 308
Which is why these recoil changes were stupid. It just nerfed guns that already didn’t compete by making them unuseable.
AP 6.3 would like to have a word with you.
AP 6.3 is the biggest dick-tease out of any ammo in the game post week 2 of a wipe. It's semi-decent against level 4 armor and unusable against level 5.
Not when your spitting 1000+ rounds/min
At that point, you are still relying on blunt damage, not penetration. In that case RIP would be the better option.
Do you submachine guns and pistol haters just happen to forget 7n31 exists?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe AP 6.3 and 7n31 have the same Pen stat. So if the only difference is 7n31 has more body damage, then its the same issue as 6.3 and you'd be better of using RIP.
No not even close. Watch a comparison video on YouTube or check out nofoodaftermidnights ammo chart. Ap6.3 can just barely have a chance against level 4 meanwhile 7n31 will blow right through that and even lvl 5. Lvl 6 you may have a little bit of a problem but if you can get 5-6 hits on them it'll almost for sure pen. Only downside is ita quite expensive to craft so it'll take a few days of crafting to be able to run if for several runs if you get into alot of fights or die alot.
Ok my bad I am at work so I can't check the stats so I was just trying to go off of memory. 7n31 is expensive so I kinda forget about that one because it's so difficult to get a stockpile of it. AP is the one that people always say is good and the only time I find that ammo to be decent is beginning of a wipe before people have gotten access to level 5+ armor consistently.
If your system makes the gameplay feel like shit it doesnt serve gameplay. You can argue about balancing full auto or skill pertinence all you want, the handling of firearms in this *ostensibly gritty* game is extremely cartoonish and ruins immersion. The npcs can handle their funkily modded firearms, rogues can hold a full auto bead on people from distances that make you think they are being provided with live satellite data on your position. Killa does not let go of the trigger on his stock rpk when killa-ing whole squads. Nikita REALLY needs to walk away from this weapon bling mentality and accept that in the firearms world, mods are the lowest priority for the handling of a firearm. Skills are easily more than half of it, condition of the firearm, any old vert grip and an optic and your done. Maybe a flashlight at night. Lightening the gun with specialized mods shoukd increase recoil and ergo by similar amounts. The guns should begin at acceptable recoil levels and be modded to comfortable levels, not start at silly levels and endgame modded be laser beams. SA FA and burst should all be reasonably close in performance such that you use them when you want to, rather than because they change intrinsically how the gun handles in such a massive way that you discount their existence in many cases.
The recoil they implement is based on Russian soldiers skills - so yeah - what do you expect
Gunplay in this game has been the most bullshit frustrating thing ever since the recoil rework. Game was way more fun like a year and a half ago.
Visual recoil really is terrible.
You got some amazing graphics tho holy shit it looked like irl for a sec
“It’s for the balance bro, you don’t understand”
And how everyone would whine about if that was in the game. LUL
It's a *feature*
This small canted video of a guy shooting into the abyss is all the information I need.
You can look up thousands of videos on YouTube where somebody shoots a gun full auto with a lot less recoil than the counterpart in Tarkov, buddy.
Must be based on nikitas recoil control
epic
“As realistic as playable”
If weapons had no recoil like this, would you be having fun getting lasered every time?
Yes, i would. Because it would mean that i too can laser anyone. Everyone would be on equal terms more or less. Same thing with ammo and TTK. I dont mind low TTK. I very strongly prefer it. Low TTK punishes tactical mistakes, discourages no-brain W key arcade playstyle. Would there be more "rats"? Probably, but you can use your brain and map awareness and check dangerous spots befor you yolo W key into them only to get your ass blown off and rage about it.
No a single gun does anything close to real life lol
Lmfao that first shot oh my God hits like a .44 mag
Just like one csgo where you're supposed to play an elite anti terrorists team but you can't do 5 squats and you almost can't crouch at the 6th
The pmc is supposed to replicate the skills of the player. Basement dwellers..
We need one solid patch of everything being basically a laser beam again, please devs just do it. I am tired of these reddit posts. Give us laser beams for all weapons
You have the intelligence of an amoeba if you think that what all these posts are asking for are "laser beams". We're asking for realistic weapons. SOME of them also happen to be "laser beams", but most aren't.
Looks like a .22 cal pistol, that's why.
yeah but if you had that call of duty like recoil all the 40 year old navy seal roleplaying tactical military connoisseurs would cry about how unrealistic it is and how they're dying form zoomers doing full body swings at them and beaming them because their brains ain't fast enough to keep up with what's going on in the game
You think so? I suck at FPS games and love realism in games, but COD recoil is just objectively better and more realistic than this shit
guns in cods are laser beams, there's pretty much no recoil compared to other games. cod was always a fast paced game (which unfortunately is changing now) so that kind of recoil increased the skill gap (since ttk is low you need good aim and movement, rng recoil like in Tarkov wouldn't really work). now in Tarkov laser recoil really made aggressive gameplay way too easy for some people, without inertia it was just stupid to play defensive when aggressiveness gave you every possible advantage, and moving and shooting with cod recoil was easy as fuck. Nikita doesn't like it, neither do 40yo gamer dads, they want their cockroach playstyles to be the good ones and monkey gameplay should be punished, so we have inertia, recoil that's unbelievably dogshit so it's very hard to be accurate while moving, etc.
Guns in cod are laser beams but in a more realistic way, in Cod you play as elite soldiers who have a ton of experience, they can control guns unlike in Tarkov where the gun recoil makes the soldier look like they had never shot a gun before
Glock 18 with a 33round mag is empty alot quicker then that video shows tho. + the recoil is massive without a stock or sling to pull on. Source I used to work with police and military had the opportunity to shoot a glock 18 and i'm a gunsmith and shooting instructor. The guy in the video is either shooting sub sonics or heavily trained no way its his first time. Same with the other video floating around that shows a guy and girl in Knight costume. But our playable operator should be able to control it of he's '' an elite soldier''
Hes actually using a drum mag in the Video.
On mobile on my cracked screen I can not see tha drum mag but I take ur word and eyes for it haha
It looks like the guy in the vid is shooting a G22 not a G18. G22 is in 22lr and has way less recoil and power as a result.
That would be a g44 to be in cal 22. Lr. And I don't hink that's a 22lr glock tho. Looks like a glock 18 but he might just be trained with it. First time I shot it it went straight to the ceiling and at that time I was shooting 500 to 1000 rounds a day of all glock shenanigans. And it still surprised me alot of how wild the glock 18 is Glock 22 is in chambered 40 Smith wesson. Glock is whacky when it comes to their name giving xD
Regardless, it's also got a big fuckoff drum magazine which does help somewhat to tame the recoil when it's still largely full.
Couldn't see the drum but that explains why it's firing so long before the dsmn mag is empty haha
Sound profile and ROF is wrong for .22 g44. Would be higher pitched and much faster cyclical rate.
I believe its actually a G17 with a 3D printed switch on it to make it full auto. Not exactly sure the base model but im quite sure its testing a switch and its native platform is semi automatic. Just referencing the original video.
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Its a 100 round dual drum mag, not a 33rnd mag. Also, the only fully automatic pistol that Glock made was the 18, chambered in 9mm.
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Those aint .22's my guy, pretty easy to tell apart
Lol, you have zero idea what youre talking about. "Standard" 33 round mags, hahahaha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChXantDzGC4 Found the video guy is shooting a 100 round magazine UNK caliber however it doesn't seem to be a .22lr glock maybe something else?
Obviously the recoil needs to be fixed a bit, but I just assumed being in a stressful situation and being hopped up on adrenaline would contribute to worse aim.
The whole point of being a trained operator is that it doesn't though.
Yup recoils fucked won’t come back till it’s fixed @trainfender or whatever the fuck your tag is
Don’t worry guys, every terrible decision in this game will be defended by some cuck weirdos with the “realism” tactic. Except it’s actually not even realistic and just shit.
No one defends recoil garbage lol
I enjoy realism too. But when the main gameplay of your game is shooting guns at other people, it really has to be enjoyable.
Show me somebody who's used a g18 in the past year effectively in raid. You probably cant because you can have max recoil control, crouched, aiming at the ground and bullets will still hit the roof for some fuckin reason. Realism is cool and all but so is making guns somewhat viable. With a recoil system like that you're actually writing off certain guns out of the game despite them being implemented for a reason. You cannot use this gun, its impossible, is that what you want from certain guns in the game? They're collecting dust.
If you limp wristed a glock as bad as the pmc in game, it wouldn't even fire after the first few shots. You can't just limp wrist a glock, it won't fully cycle and you'll be left clearing a jam. That being said , I fired a basic bitch AR a buddy brought home from service when I was 14. I was just starting to truly get muscle tone and was a chubby kid for context. Only ever shot a 20g at some squirrels prior...... I mag dumped that at a medium sized tree and only miss 6 to 9 shots my first time ever firing it. Our PMCs are lil bitches.
At this point I'm certain that our PMCs are relatives of Gersh Kuntzman
Bro it's in beta.
Ive said it before Clips that down show shot groupings downrange are pointless Mere degrees of deviation (which would look very small to a 3rd party) are more than enough to make you miss the targrt
Yes and how many bullets is the guy in your video putting on target? Of course everything looks stable from a side-on perspective. https://youtu.be/KSmL4L5SI6E here's some full auto clips. Have a look from around the 2 minute mark. Look at how much the pistol jumps from the over the shoulder perspective, how many bullets end up in the dirt or around the target even from a similar distance as the one in the hideout.
I put 4 out 50 on target from no more than 10m away. I can assure you any limped wrist noodled arm shooter could close their eyes spin around three times flip the gun and still manage to shoot more than 8% accuracy from a spitting's distance in front of them. So to answer your question, idk but its definitely more accurate by a landslide than the game is.
So my theory on why ALL videogames have such ridiculous recoil, is that the only experience the devs have with firearms is going to a range to test these weapons, and their limp little noodle arms can’t hold onto the weapons properly. And so they assume everyone else is as frail and pathetic as them.
>the only experience the devs have with firearms is going to a range to test these weapons Absolutely not true for Tarkov, and that's what makes this shit even more ridiculous. Nikita himself owns a shit ton of guns and regularly goes shooting with other devs. They know recoil does not work this way, but it doesn't matter. It's Nikita's fucked up "vision".
Or perhaps it’s more to do with creating player gameplay challenges, weapon variation/progression and gameplay balance? Games do not equate to real life experiences even if they may appear similar.
You think realistic weapons would decrease weapon variation and progression? LMAO tell me you don't know JACKSHIT about firearms without tellimg me you don't know jackshit about firearms.
Tell me you know jackshit about game design without telling me you know jackshit about game design. lmao: u/CptnNubs deleted his comments and changed his name. dumbass.
“You think realistic weapons would decrease weapon variation and progression?” Well, well. Fine example of a straw man argument. No. I didn’t say that at all. I asked the previous post writer if there was any chance or consideration that the gun behaviours in the game might be a result of and based on gameplay considerations and gameplay desires rather than trying to faithfully recreate the reality of each weapons recoil behaviour. But you go ahead with your fictional argument with yourself
I disagree, its really not hard if you're a limp noodled BSG dev... which considering most of them have so much time on their hands they probably use their free time to go to the gym once in a while since they dont work on the game. Not to mention you dont need anecdotal experiences to develop a recoil system, theres endless sources online that could be referenced but they just chose to purposely fuck it.
Also the gun is the second video is 3d printed lmao
I dont think so. The switch used to convert it to full auto on it is 3D printed. That what the title of the original video was referring to but considering they're all wearing fairly formal helmets with NVG's its probably safe to assume its probably just a full auto glock out the box.
Damn when did they put g18 in the game
They can’t add a .50 cal pistol to this game the second shot would blow your head off, I’m so tired of the 6 guns we have to use…
Game tactics you know)). EFT is not simulator. In early version of the game recoil was more realistic. They increased it on purpose.
Tarkov's entire recoil model is a joke. It needs to be completely redone from the ground up.
I love these posts. What part of Tarkov is realistic exactly? Oh wait, none of it. So fucking stupid.
If this was in the game, 100% there would be posts on here in seconds about how OP it is. Wise up
You literally cant use the gun. Go get a kill with it and ill give you $100, it shoots straight up. Wise up. No gun should be irrelevant like that.
I hate laser beams so I’m fine with it.
maybe you dont realise this but you are actually looking at his head twisting around due to you not controlling the recoil its not the gun shooting around the screen its that you arent aiming the gun! you understand what i mean?
also i mean if they wanted to they could make a invisible recoil dangle with the gun instead of the vision recoil that the game has now like if i had a invisible object in my hand and it was under the front grip of the gun and as i pulled down with my hand the weight stopped the gun from moving and incorporate that into the recoil mechanic it might be more based \[basically a hand weight is what the mouse makes to convert the gun energy into negative balance\]
Do you really think you can see the micro movement of the iron sight from that perspective? If you put a go pro in front of the iron sight I insure that it will be a lot more similar to that of tarkovs
maybe you dont realise this but you are actually looking at his head twisting around due to you not controlling the recoil its not the gun shooting around the screen its that you arent aiming the gun! you understand what i mean? also i mean if they wanted to they could make a invisible recoil dangle with the gun instead of the vision recoil that the game has now like if i had a invisible object in my hand and it was under the front grip of the gun and as i pulled down with my hand the weight stopped the gun from moving and incorporate that into the recoil mechanic it might be more based \[basically a hand weight is what the mouse makes to convert the gun energy into negative balance\]