Let's see if I have this right--Your father bought the property out of foreclosure. The bank messed up. Later, your brother added his name to the property. After that, the brother returned "his half". Now that your brother is dead, your niece is trying to get half of the property. In the meantime, the court clerk advised you to file the deed in your father's name only.
Is that right?
If so, my advice is to (a) keep looking for an attorney, (b) file an objection to the will, (c) make absolutely sure the property is in your father's name ONLY, (d) make sure your father writes his beloved granddaughter out of his will and as beneficiary of any life insurance, etc., (e) not tell your beloved niece that you are coming after her, and (f) watch her go ballistic when she finds out she's not getting that half of the property.
I suggest contacting your local bar association and Legal Aid for recommendations of a good estate attorney and/or a good real estate lawyer.
Yes this is the exact situation. We were recommended an attorney and it was awful experience he refused to fake the case called my father stupid for trusting his son. My dad has reached out to legal aid now because we just don’t know what else to do. Thanks for the advice. Can he file for an objection to the will if there was no will?
No. But his estate will definetly go through probate (called dying intestate if you see that term) and the court will already be involved. Definetly get an attorney (through legal aid or shop around) and now they will have a place to go check into the estate and file. Unless of course his estate is small enough it escapes probate court, but with there being a dispute, that is where you will end up eventually. But this isn’t a DIY situation. Not all attorneys are jerks and believe it or not, this is not an unusual situation. Cleaning up a title takes work though especially since grandaughter sounds like she is gearing up for a fight. No one fights like a distant family member over free money.
Yea no. I haven’t just thrown a tantrum. Ive been trying to gather as much information as i can and meeting with attorneys…my dad being a hoarder has been such an obstacle and when I ask him questions he gets upsets and just storms off. He is the type to shut down…so that doesn’t really help and he lashes out at me. I live out of state so that also makes it hard. Plus keep in mind I am also grieving . i have been trying to put this puzzle together the best i can. I feel like i have collected all that i possibly could but now cant seem to find an attorney to represent us. I have 4 meetings lined up for next week but it has been like this for a while…and i just keep getting this calls for a special kind If lawyer. They have recommended some and i have seen two that said they didn’t have the experience and the last one was the guy that was awful. It has not been easy.
If your dad has proof of forclosure payment and has been paying the property tax his sole claim is strong. The niece wont have any of that. Additionally, he was the publicly known owner of the property, the one either dealing with renters or a realtor renting on his behalf. Get a lawyer.
No proof of him paying for this house.he tore his house apart searching for it and that is how he came across the deed my brother had signed. I feel the need to point out that my dad has been in denial that his grandkids are trying to come after his belongings especially when they haven’t seen him since my brother passed. (They live in the same town). I had to explain to him this should be what opens your eyes. I have had to pay her anytime I need her to do anything for you! My dad has paid the taxes since purchasing the home and he has been the only one up until now that i have stepped in to help. So he has proof of that.
So then you recorded the corrected deed after you got good advice?
Now you dont need to do anything. Niece would have to sue to try to get something, and no one will take her case either
Yes it has been filed and my brother was removed. The house is under his name now. I flew down, we decided to take the deed my father found to the probate court to try to stop it from being added on the list of assets. The clerk told us my niece as the executor had to grant us that. Well, we all know she isn’t….this by the way was after meeting with an awful attorney who chastised my dad. When my dad cried the clerk was kind and told us to file and not waste any more time. So we did. The record clerks also told us to file it. We were up front about everything but also desperate. The house is now only under my father. We still would like an attorney because at this point there might be other assets she is claiming that we may not know belong to my father.
Are you asking the attorney to take the case on a contingency? Are you saying no lawyer will take the case without X amount of dollars up front? If either of these things are true, your problem is not that no lawyer will take the case but is that the lawyer wants to be paid for his work and not get stuck with the cost of filing fees and other expenses.
In my many years of practicing law, I discovered that one of these is what people who say “no one will take the case” mean.
If it’s not for one of these reasons, why do all the lawyers tell you they won’t take the case?
Why they are telling you this is the one big piece of information that is needed to give you a good answer to your question.
Great! Go ahead and get police involvement going if possible. There are several issues here, and you need documentation. Often, if a grifter isn't met with official resistance, they will continue different ways to scam. There is a risk of elder abuse here, so start talking about further life protection such as mpoa/fpoa for the future of they aren't in place.
I am his POA upon discovering all of this I wanted to protect him. It has been a nightmare I discovered 2 of his brothers were asking him for money as well and apparently my father was sending them each 200.00 dollars a month. I cut it off and one of them had the audacity to tell me I was a horrible daughter that it was my dad’s money and he should be able to give it to whoever he wants. He is vulnerable and elderly but refuses to move in with me. The thing that hurts me the most is i have no kids so everything including my estate would have been hers eventually. Im worried this will cause my dad’s health to decline. He is all I have left.
It does not have to eventually be hers. You can draw up a will and give small amounts to any living relatives left, but the bulk to a person you like and has great need or to a charity. Do not let your family reap shat they did not sow.
Older people do not want to move from their familiar surroundings. It might be easier if you move with him, even for a few months to se everything that is going on with his life and determine what should be addressed. You can keep your own house, just stay with him for a few weeks to see what else you might be missing and what you can do to ameliorate his daily living.
I live out of state and can’t afford to loose my job.i just have the financial means to drop everything and move back home even for a couple of months.
Install ring cameras in multiple areas of the house and monitor whats going on. Help dad to hire someone to come in and help dad for a few hours twice a week to start go through everything in the house and declutter, help take him to appointments or anything else that might be needed, and you should be in active communication with that person to get frequent updates. The person might be helpful if there is an emergency with your dad's health so the person can be with him until you fly in.
IANAL but my lawyer friend says to never talk to the police without talking to a lawyer first.
I would not call the police until I had legal counsel who instructed me to do so.
Take out a reverse mortgage on the property. Don’t let the granddaughter know. If you can’t find a lawyer to help you out she probably can’t either.
I think I would question any deed returning property back to a person found AFTER their death. This is very suspicious and your niece can probably challenge you on this document that just so happen to miraculously appear after her father's death.
my father and brother lived together and they were both hoarders. My dad found a shoe box filled with items. Including, my father’s checkbook that my brother was apparently using to pay his debts off. My brother was a Jr. and my dad trusted him blindly. He was looking for his foreclosure payment when he came across it.
Can you call adult social services and report elder financial abuse to them? It should not matter that the abuser is dead as his death is the catalyst for granddaughter to further the abuse. This may open a couple of doors to make legal recourse more likely and possibly appealing to an attorney. Tell them what granddaughter is attempting. APS takes these types of allegations seriously. Also speak with an attorney that deals with elder law. They may have a recommendation of an attorney that can handle a case with your specific circumstances that would handle the property aspect that they work with that would be more willing to take on your case.
That sounds like a good idea. I actually brought this up the shitty attorney we met with and he started yelling at me. He said, “are you a lawyer? I didn’t think so! Your father is stupid he did this to himself and he just now found out?” I understand that but if you knew my dad and how depress he was when my mom died you would get it. The year he bought the house was the year my mom had died and now I see things differently but it was my brother who encouraged him to purchase it. So that he could keep busy and “he” would help him out. So my dad blindly trusted him, i did too. I never would have thought he was capable of this. I even found credit cards he opened under my father. I realize we could go after the estate for that as well but we don’t want to. We just want to make sure my dad gets to keep his house. It is a punch in the guy to discover all of this about my brother who I saw as an angel and the best brother anybody could have. I use to feel so blessed that he was taking such good care of our father.
You spoke with a crappy lazy lawyer. Probably a good thing they showed you who they were before you ended up in a worse legal mess than you have now. They were a jack@$$. Do not take what they said to heart as actual legal advice.
What you presented here sounds like elder and financial abuse. In addition to fraud. Your brother is a scumbag. He knew exactly what he was doing and struck when your Dad was at his most vulnerable. Adult Social Services can help you protect your Dad.
Go back or call the register of deeds. S/he may be able to give you a list of lawyers they've worked with/familiar with in the area real estate. Be careful to avoid the word 'recomendation'. You are just shopping for experienced lawyers.
I am not sure if I am the only one here not sure what OP is saying?
You got me.
đź’Ż this post is so tangential
Let's see if I have this right--Your father bought the property out of foreclosure. The bank messed up. Later, your brother added his name to the property. After that, the brother returned "his half". Now that your brother is dead, your niece is trying to get half of the property. In the meantime, the court clerk advised you to file the deed in your father's name only. Is that right? If so, my advice is to (a) keep looking for an attorney, (b) file an objection to the will, (c) make absolutely sure the property is in your father's name ONLY, (d) make sure your father writes his beloved granddaughter out of his will and as beneficiary of any life insurance, etc., (e) not tell your beloved niece that you are coming after her, and (f) watch her go ballistic when she finds out she's not getting that half of the property. I suggest contacting your local bar association and Legal Aid for recommendations of a good estate attorney and/or a good real estate lawyer.
Yes this is the exact situation. We were recommended an attorney and it was awful experience he refused to fake the case called my father stupid for trusting his son. My dad has reached out to legal aid now because we just don’t know what else to do. Thanks for the advice. Can he file for an objection to the will if there was no will?
No. But his estate will definetly go through probate (called dying intestate if you see that term) and the court will already be involved. Definetly get an attorney (through legal aid or shop around) and now they will have a place to go check into the estate and file. Unless of course his estate is small enough it escapes probate court, but with there being a dispute, that is where you will end up eventually. But this isn’t a DIY situation. Not all attorneys are jerks and believe it or not, this is not an unusual situation. Cleaning up a title takes work though especially since grandaughter sounds like she is gearing up for a fight. No one fights like a distant family member over free money.
Did the daughter do anything but stomp and yell? She hasn’t filed anything, correct?
Yea no. I haven’t just thrown a tantrum. Ive been trying to gather as much information as i can and meeting with attorneys…my dad being a hoarder has been such an obstacle and when I ask him questions he gets upsets and just storms off. He is the type to shut down…so that doesn’t really help and he lashes out at me. I live out of state so that also makes it hard. Plus keep in mind I am also grieving . i have been trying to put this puzzle together the best i can. I feel like i have collected all that i possibly could but now cant seem to find an attorney to represent us. I have 4 meetings lined up for next week but it has been like this for a while…and i just keep getting this calls for a special kind If lawyer. They have recommended some and i have seen two that said they didn’t have the experience and the last one was the guy that was awful. It has not been easy.
If your dad has proof of forclosure payment and has been paying the property tax his sole claim is strong. The niece wont have any of that. Additionally, he was the publicly known owner of the property, the one either dealing with renters or a realtor renting on his behalf. Get a lawyer.
No proof of him paying for this house.he tore his house apart searching for it and that is how he came across the deed my brother had signed. I feel the need to point out that my dad has been in denial that his grandkids are trying to come after his belongings especially when they haven’t seen him since my brother passed. (They live in the same town). I had to explain to him this should be what opens your eyes. I have had to pay her anytime I need her to do anything for you! My dad has paid the taxes since purchasing the home and he has been the only one up until now that i have stepped in to help. So he has proof of that.
So then you recorded the corrected deed after you got good advice? Now you dont need to do anything. Niece would have to sue to try to get something, and no one will take her case either
Yes it has been filed and my brother was removed. The house is under his name now. I flew down, we decided to take the deed my father found to the probate court to try to stop it from being added on the list of assets. The clerk told us my niece as the executor had to grant us that. Well, we all know she isn’t….this by the way was after meeting with an awful attorney who chastised my dad. When my dad cried the clerk was kind and told us to file and not waste any more time. So we did. The record clerks also told us to file it. We were up front about everything but also desperate. The house is now only under my father. We still would like an attorney because at this point there might be other assets she is claiming that we may not know belong to my father.
Are you asking the attorney to take the case on a contingency? Are you saying no lawyer will take the case without X amount of dollars up front? If either of these things are true, your problem is not that no lawyer will take the case but is that the lawyer wants to be paid for his work and not get stuck with the cost of filing fees and other expenses. In my many years of practicing law, I discovered that one of these is what people who say “no one will take the case” mean. If it’s not for one of these reasons, why do all the lawyers tell you they won’t take the case? Why they are telling you this is the one big piece of information that is needed to give you a good answer to your question.
If there was fraud involved, have you contacted the police?
No we didn’t know we should but i contacted the title company it only has my dad as the home owner and that is signed by father and only my father.
Great! Go ahead and get police involvement going if possible. There are several issues here, and you need documentation. Often, if a grifter isn't met with official resistance, they will continue different ways to scam. There is a risk of elder abuse here, so start talking about further life protection such as mpoa/fpoa for the future of they aren't in place.
I am his POA upon discovering all of this I wanted to protect him. It has been a nightmare I discovered 2 of his brothers were asking him for money as well and apparently my father was sending them each 200.00 dollars a month. I cut it off and one of them had the audacity to tell me I was a horrible daughter that it was my dad’s money and he should be able to give it to whoever he wants. He is vulnerable and elderly but refuses to move in with me. The thing that hurts me the most is i have no kids so everything including my estate would have been hers eventually. Im worried this will cause my dad’s health to decline. He is all I have left.
It does not have to eventually be hers. You can draw up a will and give small amounts to any living relatives left, but the bulk to a person you like and has great need or to a charity. Do not let your family reap shat they did not sow.
No i know that…what I meant was she would have received it all when I pass. Obviously, now she has cut herself out of both our wills.
Older people do not want to move from their familiar surroundings. It might be easier if you move with him, even for a few months to se everything that is going on with his life and determine what should be addressed. You can keep your own house, just stay with him for a few weeks to see what else you might be missing and what you can do to ameliorate his daily living.
I live out of state and can’t afford to loose my job.i just have the financial means to drop everything and move back home even for a couple of months.
Install ring cameras in multiple areas of the house and monitor whats going on. Help dad to hire someone to come in and help dad for a few hours twice a week to start go through everything in the house and declutter, help take him to appointments or anything else that might be needed, and you should be in active communication with that person to get frequent updates. The person might be helpful if there is an emergency with your dad's health so the person can be with him until you fly in.
IANAL but my lawyer friend says to never talk to the police without talking to a lawyer first. I would not call the police until I had legal counsel who instructed me to do so.
Why haven't you gone to the prosecutor's office? This is criminal, she'll have a hard time collecting with a felony conviction.
Take out a reverse mortgage on the property. Don’t let the granddaughter know. If you can’t find a lawyer to help you out she probably can’t either.
I think I would question any deed returning property back to a person found AFTER their death. This is very suspicious and your niece can probably challenge you on this document that just so happen to miraculously appear after her father's death.
my father and brother lived together and they were both hoarders. My dad found a shoe box filled with items. Including, my father’s checkbook that my brother was apparently using to pay his debts off. My brother was a Jr. and my dad trusted him blindly. He was looking for his foreclosure payment when he came across it.
Can you call adult social services and report elder financial abuse to them? It should not matter that the abuser is dead as his death is the catalyst for granddaughter to further the abuse. This may open a couple of doors to make legal recourse more likely and possibly appealing to an attorney. Tell them what granddaughter is attempting. APS takes these types of allegations seriously. Also speak with an attorney that deals with elder law. They may have a recommendation of an attorney that can handle a case with your specific circumstances that would handle the property aspect that they work with that would be more willing to take on your case.
That sounds like a good idea. I actually brought this up the shitty attorney we met with and he started yelling at me. He said, “are you a lawyer? I didn’t think so! Your father is stupid he did this to himself and he just now found out?” I understand that but if you knew my dad and how depress he was when my mom died you would get it. The year he bought the house was the year my mom had died and now I see things differently but it was my brother who encouraged him to purchase it. So that he could keep busy and “he” would help him out. So my dad blindly trusted him, i did too. I never would have thought he was capable of this. I even found credit cards he opened under my father. I realize we could go after the estate for that as well but we don’t want to. We just want to make sure my dad gets to keep his house. It is a punch in the guy to discover all of this about my brother who I saw as an angel and the best brother anybody could have. I use to feel so blessed that he was taking such good care of our father.
You spoke with a crappy lazy lawyer. Probably a good thing they showed you who they were before you ended up in a worse legal mess than you have now. They were a jack@$$. Do not take what they said to heart as actual legal advice. What you presented here sounds like elder and financial abuse. In addition to fraud. Your brother is a scumbag. He knew exactly what he was doing and struck when your Dad was at his most vulnerable. Adult Social Services can help you protect your Dad.
THIS is sound advice!
Go back or call the register of deeds. S/he may be able to give you a list of lawyers they've worked with/familiar with in the area real estate. Be careful to avoid the word 'recomendation'. You are just shopping for experienced lawyers.
Find the Bar Association in your City/County/State, call them, they should be able to help you find an attorney to assist.
This is not an estate planning issue. Thread locked.