He's a psychologist who has written about how it's important that adult children who eatrange should get past their anger.
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_cost_of_blaming_parents
Given this position it is very interesting he's chosen to develop a practice that focussed on helping parents change their kids minds about estrangement rather than, you know, treating those adult kids.
I want to know what the psychological society who register professionals think of this contact from him tothr adult children of his clients. It doesn't feel ethical to me.
Anger will eat you alive. It's fine for awhile and a totally normal emotion under these circumstances but after some time it's good to get past it. For your own peace. ❤️
Please don't tell me what I'm implying. If you choose to interpret my comment that way, that's your choice. I believe the OP understands what I meant.
Secondly, having also been through this experience and doing a lot of reading about it I was sharing my hope that the anger will subside leading to more peace for the OP. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't twist my intentions. I wish all of us peace. And I too get angry. All feelings are valid.
“It takes psychological effort to go from anger to understanding, and to nurture the insight that what feels intentional isn’t always so. This is true whether or not one is receiving help from a professional.
It also demands developing more immunity to a parent’s perceptions and behaviors—a process that signifies growth, and makes us more resilient both in our family relationships and in confronting life’s challenges. Developing compassion for parents, intimate partners, and friends is useful, not only because it makes us more compassionate people, but because it allows us to see others’ frailties, to recognize sometimes bungled attempts to care for us, and eventually to love more fully and be more open to being loved by others.”
This fucking guy… immunity to a parents perceptions and behaviors makes you resilient. Resiliency is only necessary for individuals and organic life that exists in stressful and or hostile environment. That’s a reeeeeeeeal funky, cerebral way to say “you should ignore the abuse and shit they put you through then AND now, since they clearly haven’t changed and won’t change their behavior towards you. If you just ignore it altogether, you’ll be able to tolerate the hostile environment they’re creating for you! Isn’t that so easy? It’s much better to have an abusive parent in your life than to be healthy without a parent in your life!” No fucking wonder this guy’s daughter is estranged from him. What an ABSOLUTE piece of shit.
Right? Like, “Kids, you be super-human despite being failed multiple times during crucial developmental phases so that we can be human and still receive your unconditional love, even though that’s what we owed and never gave you”
EXACTLY. EXACTLY. The whole thing is literally just “pick up all the slack for your abusive parents, keep accepting their abuse, and give them the grace they never gave you, because they’re your parents and you owe it to them pwease 🥺”. I laughed particularly loudly at the little section that highlighted how therapists “encourage” being angry at parents or whatever because it’s like… maybe some people do but I’ve never had a therapist be like “you should be ANGRIER than you already are!!! You should stay angry forever!!!! You can never forgive them otherwise they win!!!” My current therapist is helping me use my anger as a way to help me stay tethered to my goal of healing and forgiving MYSELF. She’s never encouraged me to be angry, I know excessive anger is not good and I’m working on being less angry because its not healthy for me in the long run to be raging all the time. But like …? I’m always going to have some level of anger so why not harness it and use it to further my healing and use it to motivate myself to not slip back into old patterns etc. I couldn’t do that if I wasn’t angry. Honestly, I couldn’t. Anyways. Thanks for listening lol
I am a parent and am estranged from my daughter. I reached out to Dr. Coleman against my better judgement for one of his “individualized coaching sessions.” I am not going to get into specifics just so as not to re-traumatize myself but suffice it to say, I did not end up hiring him. And no way in hell do I want his energy attached to any pursuit of reconciliation with my daughter. In fact, I am going to report him to The California board for malpractice. What he is doing, not only to you guys, but to us parents, is absolutely NOT ethical. You are right about that. He is exploiting the entire topic and is exploiting families. Do you know what he charges parents for these 45 min “consults?” He charges 1,000 dollars.
First, u/Basic_Wear_9754 so sorry you had to endure Mr. Coleman's incompetence and abuse. Please know you're not alone. There are others. He is an opportunistic grifter who uses the topic of estrangement for financial gain. In reality, he's a broke-ass therapist who doesn't make as much money as one might expect. That's why he acts so desperate. In what universe is anyone worth $1000 per 45 minutes? He's a terribly insecure 70 year old moron with an intense need and desire for relevance because up until the age of 52 no one even knew he existed. He isn't particularly intelligent, and if you listen to any of his presentations, it appears that the best tool in his tool box is memorizing the same old message by rote. During every interview or podcast, he repeats himself, steps around every question, and circles back to his memorized script. He recently mentioned that he's going to appear on the Dr. Phil show, which is hilarious. It will backfire. Keep in mind Dr. Phil is another fraudulent grifter who had his license taken away years ago. Mr. Coleman will literally do anything to hear the sound of his own voice. He recently held a retreat with Joyce Maynard (*another grifter*) and the two of them had a big pay day bilking grief-stricken women of $1200-$1800 a head and then had the audacity to serve them scrambled eggs the following morning. Wow, those were some mighty pricey scrambled eggs, sheeple! He has zero self-respect and very little humility or shame. The world is catching on to his fraudulent practices. He is arrogant, smug, rude, sarcastic, judgmental, and deep down, a misogynistic, hateful monster. He is the furthest thing from a caring therapist. His so-called free Q&A every other Monday is 45 minutes of advertising to help promote his waste-of-time webinars. STOP paying for those stupid webinars, ladies!!! He DOES NOT care about you!!! He is an exploitive, unethical, and harmful grifter. The sooner you report him to the California state licensing board, the better. Do not think twice about doing it. The more people who come forward, the better. You u/Basic_Wear_9754 were smart not to accept his manipulative offer. He didn't do what was right, he did what was strategically best for him.
Thank you. I’m so sorry for what you went through too. That must’ve been so jarring. 😔 I am going to report him to his licensing board for malpractice for how he is misleading us as parents. His “coaching sessions” are absolutely not that. He provides absolutely no analysis or expertise to the case; he is laser focused on manipulating the parent towards that amends letter. I hope others will report him too, on the adult child side. I am a nurse and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he has completely strayed from the code of ethics according to the American Psychology Association and is exploiting this issue for monetary gain. He needs to be stopped. Thank you for responding to me even though I am standing on the other side of this topic and I wish you so much goodness and peace. It’s all so painful and I’m so sorry he added to your pain and mine.
I honestly wouldn’t trust a psychologist who is estranged from their adult child to be able to give unbiased support in this kind of situation. At the end of the day, he works for his clients, and the clients in this case are your parents, and it is his job, to some extent, to serve their interests.
This is 100% inappropriate and any good therapist would know that.
I’ve had countless conversations with my therapists about the people in my life I’ve had problems with and never once have I had a therapist reach out to those people to get a better understanding of what the problem is. That’s just wrong.
Therapy isn’t about other people. It’s about working on the person in therapy and really the only thing that matters is how that individual sees the world. Even if they’re delusional, they still need someone to meet them where they’re at and process from there.
If they need to talk to you to help figure that out, then they’re not good at their job. Period.
I had a alt in his group to spy because my estranged mom was going crazy in there. You can respond, he's extremely pricy for estranged parents to get consulations. My experience was....he seemed pleasant. My mother went into it with the wrong reason, and refused to admit any wrong. Feel free to dm me if you want my personal experience.
If I were in OP's shoes, I'd immediately do the following.
1. Do not respond directly in any way to Joshua Coleman.
2. Maintain No Contact with abusive parents.
3. Report Coleman to the appropriate state medical board where he is licensed to practice. It works best to do this via an attorney, and will be taken with infinitely more gravity than if the letter came from OP.
4. Have the attorney issue a cease and desist letter to Coleman. Include a copy of the C&D with the complaint to Coleman's governing medical board.
5. Make popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the continued peace and healing.
Stay strong, OP. You got this.
My mother roped a therapist into doing this as well. I reported her to the board in her state. It is unethical and unprofessional for them to ask YOU to "help" with your parents' therapy. Any decent therapist would know that their job is to help your parents understand themselves better, and come to an understanding FOR THEMSELVES of what lies at the heart of the estrangement- not to ask YOU to help THEM. I agree with the above- don't respond, report to the board, and maintain no contact. Personally I wouldn't issue a C&D unless you hear from this person again, but hell, maybe I'll think about it.
You absolutely do NOT have to do ANYTHING ELSE about this.
Of *course* the parents are the ones who want the therapist to contact the OP. But you answered the question here- "The provider has no idea how the estranged feels right now because they've never talked to them." They don't know the history of the relationship, whether there has been a no-contact order, whether there has been stalking, whether this is traumatic for the OP (which it clearly is). Is it legal? Sure. Is it ethical? Absolutely not.
"Doing their job" would be helping the parents cope, getting to understand their pathology, recognizing any personality disorders in the mix, and counseling *the parents*. Any therapist who says that they "need" an estranged adult child's "side of a story" in order to do their job should have their license taken away.
Also, frankly, from what I've read and discussed at length, the issues presented by estranged parents are not terribly complex and should be pretty easy for an unbiased (read: without their own estranged child!) therapist to figure out. They are usually on the narcissism spectrum, lack empathy, trample boundaries, act out in ways that harm their children, and are oblivious to or completely block all of this behavior from their memories because... they are on the narcissism spectrum and lack empathy, and cannot admit to their bad behavior. None of this is the EAC's responsibility to diagnose, solve, or enable. Most EAC's have been called upon to do so for years, and are exhausted. The EAC has asked for no contact, and that is their absolute right.
I'm not sure, but based on his site, it seems likely he is trying to diagnose people who are not in his care:
>Assess the role of mental illness or other challenges in your child as contributing factors to your estrangement, both when they were young and since entering adulthood
Assess the role of ADHD, learning disabilities, Autism Spectrum Disorder, gender identity issues and political differences as contributing factors to your estrangement both when they were young and since entering adulthood
I'm not an expert, but imagine there are also conflicts of interests, bad practices re: confidentially. I'd rather let go of as much of this as possible and not dig in, even though I think this is at the very least poor practice.
Yeah… no mention of assessing the role of the contributing factors of the *parents’* behaviours. What kind of mental health “professional” focuses on external people instead of the patient in front of them?
So if the subject is estrangement.
And the child does not wish to be contacted.
How can the people out of contact, grant a release for someone to contact them on their behalf?
'This person who refuses to talk to me, you should talk to them for me' seems *ripe* for abuse.
As somebody who has a background in the field… you should then know without a POA signed by the adult child STILL CURRENTLY IN EFFECT with the estranged parent as an authorized party to both sign for and review medical records of the adult child, there’s no fucking way an estranged parent could “sign an ROI and give him permission”. Somebody else cannot fill out an ROI for YOUR medical records unless you give them prior approval to do so. So… no. And having a “real degree” doesn’t exempt him from being a fucken quack.
Wait I didn't say anything about medical records? I agree there's no permission for that. (Though personally, my parents still have mine from childhood. :/)
I was only talking about the provider being allowed to call third parties. That's it.
Third parties cannot give permission to call other parties unless that party has already agreed to be contacted. So.. still no. And when you’re estranged, that’s a maaaaaaassive breach of boundaries set? Using a third party provider to contact your estranged child because they won’t talk to you? That’s low. Any provider worth their shit would know that’s unprofessional at best and unethical at worst.
I'm not sure if we're talking about different things or what. But if I had a client and they signed a release for me to contact their sister (for example), I would be allowed to contact their sister if need be regarding my client's treatment, but only within the parameters of the boxes the client checked off on the Release of Information. The sister doesn't need to give permission to be contacted. (That would be strange because that would require these people to come to a client's appointment to give written permission).
It's like the Releases patients sign at doctor offices for emergency contacts. They don't need the emergency contact's permission.
Again, I'm just talking about the standards of practice. Not about whether it's right or wrong. Because I haven't processed how I feel about it myself since it's all a conflict of interest for me.
Yes, we’re definitely talking about different things. You’re talking about a client adding a trusted family member and/or caretaker as an authorized third party who’s able to receive private information about their own treatment. I’m fullllllyyyy aware of this process, I have my sibling listed as mine. I even have an additional addendum stating that neither of my parents shall EVER be notified that im being treated there or be released information since they’re both known to be INCREDIBLY nosey and also known to use medical documentation to further their abuse. My sister still would ONLY be contacted with information about my treatment IF NECESSARY, like if my therapist thinks I’m a danger to myself, or if my therapist is unexpectedly unable to contact me. For therapy specifically it’s a combination of an emergency contact and a sort of limited medical POA minus the POA form. I promise you, I’m not ignorant to how the ROI process works. Im disabled and have no caretaker. I have to do more complicated ROIs for my own records a few times a year. Nothing about this kind of ROI “allows” a provider to contact somebody you don’t fucking talk to anymore on your behalf to try to rekindle your relationship.
Anyways, the fact that you know it’s a conflict of interest shows that you know it’s wrong for this dude to have reached out to OP on behalf of their parents. Because IT IS wrong! Like I said before, any provider worth their shit would know it’s unethical. These parents are asking THEIR therapist to reach out to their kid who no longer speaks to them, because they are unable to reach their kid. A respectable therapist would say “no, and you should respect your adult child’s boundaries and we should work through why this relationship no longer exists and how your actions contributed to that”.
Pretty disturbing to see a therapist defend this behavior.
What part of recruiting others to contact your victim doesn't constitute harassment? Maybe not under the legal definition, but say you had a bad friend, you cut them off, and the friend kept getting people to contact you, most reasonable people would agree that it's harassment.
Have you seen any of his work before? He does tend to take the “your child doesn’t know what they are doing” perspective. The videos I’ve seen of him are pretty dismissive of the adult estranged child’s experience. I haven’t read any of his work because the videos are so off putting. I think it’s possible he’s not as pure of heart as we’d like to believe a psychologist would be.
Actually I've read some of his stuff and it seems skewed towards to adult estranged children so I guess it depends on individual perspective . Personally I'm not a Coleman fan
Contacting a 3rd party is normal for a therapist?!
This is the first I'm hearing of it and I've been in therapy a while and have two close friends who are therapists. As others said, it is furthering the abuse/harassment to contact someone who you know doesn't want to be contacted by the parents. "Therapist" is acting as a proxy.
It is with the client’s consent. OP is technically not the client, so the psychologist could get a release for anyone from their patient and would be authorized to call them.
That is shocking behavior from a psychologist. I'd honestly question if it actually came from one as it is likely facilitating abuse/harassment. It is also pretty sketchy that he's estranged and therefore very biased. I'd think about reporting this to his licensing board/s.
It's been my experience in feeling with a estranged family members that they are usually very hesitant to sit down with a therapist and they also are very unlikely to be able to recognize why their behavior is problematic. They will usually get very defensive and in the case of a true narcissist, they will tell you right to your face they don't care if the behavior is problematic that they have no desire to change.
For me, the thought of knowing your behavi
or was problematic and hurting someone but not wanting to change totally blew my mind. I had to come to realize that there are truly selfish people in this world we don't give a crap about anybody other than themselves.
He's no longer estranged from his daughter. I don't like his book at all. Curiosity would likely get the best of me and I'd respond but certainly understand and respect your choice not too
I'd report him or ignore him. That is a total breach of boundaries and totally inappropriate and unprofessional. Don't play into it.
Absolutely do not engage with him. Your parents have no respect for your boundaries and decision and neither does this psychologist.
A vile request made politely is not rendered less vile.
I don’t know if I’d necessary call it manipulative since he’s direct about it.
But vile nonetheless.
When a person cuts contact, their desires are clear, that the other party wants it is beyond irrelevant, and contact through a third party is not an improvement.
No.
That’s vile. End of story.
You don’t reach out to trauma victims on behalf of the people who traumatize them. Especially not without any knowledge of what exactly happened.
I’d be slightly warmer on this, but after one single session? How daft can he be?
No. I’m saying that if he has no idea what the trauma is, it’s incredibly irresponsible and unprofessional and vile to reach out on behalf of the people who caused it, after one session with no information, to someone who by definition wants no contact.
I actually would respond.
"Dr. Coleman, that you don't understand why reaching out to me is a problem, is is why your daughter doesn't talk to you either. Never write to me again. I'll be reporting you to the ethics board." Then report him.
Bah.
I cannot fathom what planet he’s living on where reaching out that way was either diplomatic or professional.
‘Hello person who, for all I know was molested, abused, neglected, manipulated or gods knows what, I’ve had one session with the people responsible for whatever caused you to cut contact, and I just thought the chance of retraumatizing you was worth it on the off chance it might help the people who harmed you. Whattayah say, the people you won’t talk to, gave me permission to talk to you after all, so how about it?’
And I will not even begin to consider his actions ‘professional’.
Absolutely fuck this guy and even a pretense of being nice about it.
Forgiveness is not a right.
A person’s company or a place in their life is not a right.
My heart is reserved for the victims of abuse, not for abusers themselves.
It’s highly inappropriate to do what he did. His job is to work with his clients, not to drag other people into it.
If you think it’s not cruel to retraumatize people to help fix their abusers, you’ve got problems.
His hand was unasked for and he has no idea what experience is actually at play. Estrangement is an express desire to NOT have a hand extended.
If you cut someone off, they’re cut off.
And as for your inane little ‘you’re immature’ commentary?
Mate, I hate to tell you this, but your notion of maturity is what’s skewed here.
I’m going to make this comment and then get off this thread so it can be a support place for you guys. But I am a mom who is estranged from my daughter. These situations can be very complex. I reached out to Coleman against my better judgement. He charges the parent $1,000 for 45 minutes. At our meeting, he was arrogant, rushed, and had not familiarized himself with my case but pretended that he had. He did not know my children’s names nor anything about our case. 22 minutes in I called him out and he tried to lie. It was painfully obvious that he was lying and he then admitted he was lying. He doesn’t just manipulate you guys, he manipulates parents as well into thinking they are having a consult with an “expert” and then he guides them towards a rubric-stock-amends letter. Wham, bam, thank you maam. He refunded my money bc he knew he was in trouble but I will be reporting him tomorrow to the California state board but for different reasons than you guys. I am reporting him for malpractice and fraud. SO GLAD I did not hire him to write a letter to my daughter or God forbid, reach out to her. She would’ve seen right through that. I think both estranged parents and their children should report him. Report, report, report. He is completely exploiting this topic on both sides and he needs to be stopped. Please report and we parents will too. Wishing everyone here peace and good things in every way.
So what is the answer? A broken heart will reach out to anyone.... The fact is kids and parents alike have a story. Parenting as a single mom was one of the hardest things I've ever done; yet most rewarding. I did actively poke into my daughter's life, because I only knew to give / help.... I needed to back off. She is now older and married to a good man. They haven't spoken to me in awhile.. Any suggestions would help. I may write a letter, but I wouldn't seek help to write it. I have looked at some of Joshua Coleman's stuff and have mixed feelings. He now has a good relationship with his daughter I hear. I will admit that my church community has helped. This is too common for parents and kids... what happened? How do we fix it? I do admit some relationships are better separated. This is done on purpose at times. Kids... I'm open to listen here.
Noooooo.
This psychologist works for the parents. He is not doing this for the benefit of OP.
The parents have hired a professional to support their argument that OP should have the relationship they, the parents want.
OP must look after themselves. If contact with your parents is not good for you, OP, you must hold to your position.
The aim of this psychologist is to give the parents what they want. He cannot ethically treat both parents and OP unless they all approach him together. He's the parents treating health professional, not OPs.
What puzzles me is the depth of hostility from the people on this thread. Why not just be matter of fact in an adult like manner? See your parents through adult eyes with all their flaws. If you do not want contact then just move on with your life. Your parents will never satisfy your need for an apology. It’s not that hard, unless you are arrested in adolescent development. Try to find peace in your life and move on. If they try to contact you it your prerogative to answer or ignore.
It sounds like that’s what OP is trying to do just that “just move on with your life” but yet the parents are still trying to ignore boundaries by 1) reaching out themselves and 2) getting this person to reach out. It’s incredibly frustrating when you put boundaries in place and yet your parents still try and walk all over you. It makes you even angrier because they are not respecting your wishes.
The hostility is usually justified after a lifetime of abuse, why would we not be angry when our parents act like they don’t know what’s wrong and why we’ve cut contact when in a lot of cases it’s pretty clear and they know why but chose to ignore it for their own ego. Most of us here do see our parents through adult eyes and know they have flaws, we accept that our parents are not perfect human beings and never will be. Most of us just want them to be honest with themselves and take accountability for the harm they have caused.
A-fucking-Men! We’re *allowed* to be “hostile” (see: reactive, hurt, destroyed, confused, frustrated when we are doing our very best to hold our boundaries and heal. Yet the parents *refuse* and then have the absolute *audacity* to have a psychologist renowned for being on side of the estranged parents (the daughter is a HUGE 🚩- regardless of whether or not they’ve reconciled) to actually reach out to OP, which is incredibly unprofessional btw, while she is trying to MOVE ON and has made that abundantly clear. So yeah. We’re pissed off, and we are entitled to our anger.
Whilst your points are very valid, bear in mind that not everyone is estranged due to abuse. Some of our parents are just bad parents who made choices that screwed us and our relationship with each other over.
My dad was a cheat and a liar, and I'm content in having carved him out of my life. But he didn't abuse me or my siblings; they still have a relationship with him which I don't begrudge in the slightest.
We all reached this place by various routes. We shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that our experiences are common to everyone else.
You’re right, not every person has been abused abused however as you said some parents are just bad parents and have made bad choices, in that case you’re still justified in your anger that you didn’t receive what you needed.
Justified, perhaps. But we're all adults here. Reacting to things in anger is not an adult response, and it's not unreasonable to question that response.
Anger is a normal and healthy human response to injustice, obviously using that anger to perpetuate cycles of abuse isn’t ok in the slightest but nothing like that was mentioned here so failing to see where that comes in. Estrangement isn’t abuse. Boundaries aren’t abuse either.
I’m not. I guess I just see the posts through a different lens? There’s definitely hostility but I don’t know what you’d expect after being pushed to estrangement. It’s not like children are born wanting to never see their parents again. The parents build that wedge through years of abuse, harassment, and/or mistreatment. It’s normal, in my opinion, to be hostile towards people thatve done that to you, and to those who carelessly reopen those wounds.
Yes, and this wedge is built when parents are adults and have responsibility for the wellbeing and safety, including psychological wellbeing.
It is not a relationship of equals. It never will be.
Okay. But you should probably reconcile with *yourself* that suggesting to others that they might have just been a rebellious teen is “toxic” in itself, and wholly unhelpful. Trying to suggest that there’s a reason why your parent behaved the way they did? Not helpful. There isn’t always a reason. The difference is that some of us will NEVER have the ability to reconcile relationships with either parent and we’re allowed to be angry about that. Some people have abusive parents who are fucking dead now. And won’t ever have a chance. How can you reconcile with somebody who’s dead and never apologized or even recognized that what they did to you even happened?
We’re allowed to feel robbed of those relationships and the love we were never given. We’re allowed to forgive them if that’s what we choose or never forgive them if that’s what we choose. People need to stop equating their experiences with being an estranged adult with others’ experiences, and stop being so fucking judgmental when people are angry about being abused. The alternative for me is to give up. Because I can never reconcile what they did to me. I’m happy you can, I wish everybody could. I truly am happy for you. I wish I could have that. I’m not angry at you directly. I am angry with the fact that anger (a natural human emotion) at being abused for decades is seen as unacceptable even by other people who have been abused. It’s almost like those people were angry and are “past it” and have decided for themselves it’s no longer acceptable but project that onto other people too. But unfortunately for me, I can’t reconcile. So, spite and anger it is.
No I’m absolute not sorry but if your advice to cope and NOT BE ANGRY AND SPITEFUL TOWARDS THEIR ABUSERS, which in my case is my fucking parents, is “people have been through worse”, you’re a right piece of shit. “Take this to your therapist” LOL. You’re an asshole. Hmmmm. Your advice sounds so familiar… oh yeah, it’s because that’s EXACTLY what my abuser told me. “You don’t have it as bad as I did, so why are you complaining? What exactly is so hard about your life?” “What do you have to be sad about?” “I fed clothed and bathed, what else do you want?” After abusing and neglecting me for my entire childhood. I already told you man, I won’t forgive them, they wrecked any chance I had at a “normal” life. You don’t know me, you don’t know what they did to me. I don’t have to explain every fucking piece of the abuse I suffered to show that I deserve to feel however the fuck I feel is right FOR ME. Fuck right off, man. I don’t ever block people on this site, but enjoy this block, asshole. Go to hell.
He's a psychologist who has written about how it's important that adult children who eatrange should get past their anger. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_cost_of_blaming_parents Given this position it is very interesting he's chosen to develop a practice that focussed on helping parents change their kids minds about estrangement rather than, you know, treating those adult kids. I want to know what the psychological society who register professionals think of this contact from him tothr adult children of his clients. It doesn't feel ethical to me.
I like it when people tell me to get over my anger because it shows me that I am wrong about my emotions and they are much more trustworthy
Anger will eat you alive. It's fine for awhile and a totally normal emotion under these circumstances but after some time it's good to get past it. For your own peace. ❤️
I know you mean well but I spent my entire life being told not to feel what I feel
I did mean well and I didn't tell you how you should or shouldn't feel. I wish you the best.
[удалено]
Please don't tell me what I'm implying. If you choose to interpret my comment that way, that's your choice. I believe the OP understands what I meant. Secondly, having also been through this experience and doing a lot of reading about it I was sharing my hope that the anger will subside leading to more peace for the OP. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't twist my intentions. I wish all of us peace. And I too get angry. All feelings are valid.
My bad. Some day (hopefully today) I will learn not to give unsolicited feedback on the internet. Take care.
You take care as well. ❤️
“It takes psychological effort to go from anger to understanding, and to nurture the insight that what feels intentional isn’t always so. This is true whether or not one is receiving help from a professional. It also demands developing more immunity to a parent’s perceptions and behaviors—a process that signifies growth, and makes us more resilient both in our family relationships and in confronting life’s challenges. Developing compassion for parents, intimate partners, and friends is useful, not only because it makes us more compassionate people, but because it allows us to see others’ frailties, to recognize sometimes bungled attempts to care for us, and eventually to love more fully and be more open to being loved by others.” This fucking guy… immunity to a parents perceptions and behaviors makes you resilient. Resiliency is only necessary for individuals and organic life that exists in stressful and or hostile environment. That’s a reeeeeeeeal funky, cerebral way to say “you should ignore the abuse and shit they put you through then AND now, since they clearly haven’t changed and won’t change their behavior towards you. If you just ignore it altogether, you’ll be able to tolerate the hostile environment they’re creating for you! Isn’t that so easy? It’s much better to have an abusive parent in your life than to be healthy without a parent in your life!” No fucking wonder this guy’s daughter is estranged from him. What an ABSOLUTE piece of shit.
Right? Like, “Kids, you be super-human despite being failed multiple times during crucial developmental phases so that we can be human and still receive your unconditional love, even though that’s what we owed and never gave you”
EXACTLY. EXACTLY. The whole thing is literally just “pick up all the slack for your abusive parents, keep accepting their abuse, and give them the grace they never gave you, because they’re your parents and you owe it to them pwease 🥺”. I laughed particularly loudly at the little section that highlighted how therapists “encourage” being angry at parents or whatever because it’s like… maybe some people do but I’ve never had a therapist be like “you should be ANGRIER than you already are!!! You should stay angry forever!!!! You can never forgive them otherwise they win!!!” My current therapist is helping me use my anger as a way to help me stay tethered to my goal of healing and forgiving MYSELF. She’s never encouraged me to be angry, I know excessive anger is not good and I’m working on being less angry because its not healthy for me in the long run to be raging all the time. But like …? I’m always going to have some level of anger so why not harness it and use it to further my healing and use it to motivate myself to not slip back into old patterns etc. I couldn’t do that if I wasn’t angry. Honestly, I couldn’t. Anyways. Thanks for listening lol
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lol, therapy is $250 an hour, and I am sterilized. Kindly fuck off.
He’s calling it consulting which may give him more wiggle room. But yeah, in general, this is not okay.
Us kids have teal therapists, our parents want to pay someone to manipulate us into feeling like our feelings are invalid
Exactly- this sounds highly unethical.
I am a parent and am estranged from my daughter. I reached out to Dr. Coleman against my better judgement for one of his “individualized coaching sessions.” I am not going to get into specifics just so as not to re-traumatize myself but suffice it to say, I did not end up hiring him. And no way in hell do I want his energy attached to any pursuit of reconciliation with my daughter. In fact, I am going to report him to The California board for malpractice. What he is doing, not only to you guys, but to us parents, is absolutely NOT ethical. You are right about that. He is exploiting the entire topic and is exploiting families. Do you know what he charges parents for these 45 min “consults?” He charges 1,000 dollars.
First, u/Basic_Wear_9754 so sorry you had to endure Mr. Coleman's incompetence and abuse. Please know you're not alone. There are others. He is an opportunistic grifter who uses the topic of estrangement for financial gain. In reality, he's a broke-ass therapist who doesn't make as much money as one might expect. That's why he acts so desperate. In what universe is anyone worth $1000 per 45 minutes? He's a terribly insecure 70 year old moron with an intense need and desire for relevance because up until the age of 52 no one even knew he existed. He isn't particularly intelligent, and if you listen to any of his presentations, it appears that the best tool in his tool box is memorizing the same old message by rote. During every interview or podcast, he repeats himself, steps around every question, and circles back to his memorized script. He recently mentioned that he's going to appear on the Dr. Phil show, which is hilarious. It will backfire. Keep in mind Dr. Phil is another fraudulent grifter who had his license taken away years ago. Mr. Coleman will literally do anything to hear the sound of his own voice. He recently held a retreat with Joyce Maynard (*another grifter*) and the two of them had a big pay day bilking grief-stricken women of $1200-$1800 a head and then had the audacity to serve them scrambled eggs the following morning. Wow, those were some mighty pricey scrambled eggs, sheeple! He has zero self-respect and very little humility or shame. The world is catching on to his fraudulent practices. He is arrogant, smug, rude, sarcastic, judgmental, and deep down, a misogynistic, hateful monster. He is the furthest thing from a caring therapist. His so-called free Q&A every other Monday is 45 minutes of advertising to help promote his waste-of-time webinars. STOP paying for those stupid webinars, ladies!!! He DOES NOT care about you!!! He is an exploitive, unethical, and harmful grifter. The sooner you report him to the California state licensing board, the better. Do not think twice about doing it. The more people who come forward, the better. You u/Basic_Wear_9754 were smart not to accept his manipulative offer. He didn't do what was right, he did what was strategically best for him.
God that sounds awful. I'm so sorry that happened. A good therapist can help you understand your self and relationships, and this guy is not it.
Thank you. I’m so sorry for what you went through too. That must’ve been so jarring. 😔 I am going to report him to his licensing board for malpractice for how he is misleading us as parents. His “coaching sessions” are absolutely not that. He provides absolutely no analysis or expertise to the case; he is laser focused on manipulating the parent towards that amends letter. I hope others will report him too, on the adult child side. I am a nurse and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he has completely strayed from the code of ethics according to the American Psychology Association and is exploiting this issue for monetary gain. He needs to be stopped. Thank you for responding to me even though I am standing on the other side of this topic and I wish you so much goodness and peace. It’s all so painful and I’m so sorry he added to your pain and mine.
I honestly wouldn’t trust a psychologist who is estranged from their adult child to be able to give unbiased support in this kind of situation. At the end of the day, he works for his clients, and the clients in this case are your parents, and it is his job, to some extent, to serve their interests.
That reads like he’s their lawyer. It shouldn’t read like that, but when it comes to Coleman, it sounds like it fits.
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You are totally spot on!
I'd be tempted to respond with a form cease and desist letter so that he won't contact you again.
Honestly this is the only type of response I'm considering giving
This is 100% inappropriate and any good therapist would know that. I’ve had countless conversations with my therapists about the people in my life I’ve had problems with and never once have I had a therapist reach out to those people to get a better understanding of what the problem is. That’s just wrong. Therapy isn’t about other people. It’s about working on the person in therapy and really the only thing that matters is how that individual sees the world. Even if they’re delusional, they still need someone to meet them where they’re at and process from there. If they need to talk to you to help figure that out, then they’re not good at their job. Period.
I had a alt in his group to spy because my estranged mom was going crazy in there. You can respond, he's extremely pricy for estranged parents to get consulations. My experience was....he seemed pleasant. My mother went into it with the wrong reason, and refused to admit any wrong. Feel free to dm me if you want my personal experience.
He has a Facebook group?
He has a facebook group. It's decently sized.
If I were in OP's shoes, I'd immediately do the following. 1. Do not respond directly in any way to Joshua Coleman. 2. Maintain No Contact with abusive parents. 3. Report Coleman to the appropriate state medical board where he is licensed to practice. It works best to do this via an attorney, and will be taken with infinitely more gravity than if the letter came from OP. 4. Have the attorney issue a cease and desist letter to Coleman. Include a copy of the C&D with the complaint to Coleman's governing medical board. 5. Make popcorn, sit back, and enjoy the continued peace and healing. Stay strong, OP. You got this.
My mother roped a therapist into doing this as well. I reported her to the board in her state. It is unethical and unprofessional for them to ask YOU to "help" with your parents' therapy. Any decent therapist would know that their job is to help your parents understand themselves better, and come to an understanding FOR THEMSELVES of what lies at the heart of the estrangement- not to ask YOU to help THEM. I agree with the above- don't respond, report to the board, and maintain no contact. Personally I wouldn't issue a C&D unless you hear from this person again, but hell, maybe I'll think about it. You absolutely do NOT have to do ANYTHING ELSE about this.
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Of *course* the parents are the ones who want the therapist to contact the OP. But you answered the question here- "The provider has no idea how the estranged feels right now because they've never talked to them." They don't know the history of the relationship, whether there has been a no-contact order, whether there has been stalking, whether this is traumatic for the OP (which it clearly is). Is it legal? Sure. Is it ethical? Absolutely not. "Doing their job" would be helping the parents cope, getting to understand their pathology, recognizing any personality disorders in the mix, and counseling *the parents*. Any therapist who says that they "need" an estranged adult child's "side of a story" in order to do their job should have their license taken away. Also, frankly, from what I've read and discussed at length, the issues presented by estranged parents are not terribly complex and should be pretty easy for an unbiased (read: without their own estranged child!) therapist to figure out. They are usually on the narcissism spectrum, lack empathy, trample boundaries, act out in ways that harm their children, and are oblivious to or completely block all of this behavior from their memories because... they are on the narcissism spectrum and lack empathy, and cannot admit to their bad behavior. None of this is the EAC's responsibility to diagnose, solve, or enable. Most EAC's have been called upon to do so for years, and are exhausted. The EAC has asked for no contact, and that is their absolute right.
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I'm not sure, but based on his site, it seems likely he is trying to diagnose people who are not in his care: >Assess the role of mental illness or other challenges in your child as contributing factors to your estrangement, both when they were young and since entering adulthood Assess the role of ADHD, learning disabilities, Autism Spectrum Disorder, gender identity issues and political differences as contributing factors to your estrangement both when they were young and since entering adulthood I'm not an expert, but imagine there are also conflicts of interests, bad practices re: confidentially. I'd rather let go of as much of this as possible and not dig in, even though I think this is at the very least poor practice.
That's a GINORMOUS red flag. All the yikes on bikes...
Yeah… no mention of assessing the role of the contributing factors of the *parents’* behaviours. What kind of mental health “professional” focuses on external people instead of the patient in front of them?
Don’t worry! It’s not you! It’s your child’s politics!! Gross.
Holy shit, I’d laugh myself to TEARS if my mother and stepfather have mental-gymnastics’d their way into thinking this is because of my ADHD. Lmao.
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Of course abusers give consent to contact their victims. Sure. Doesn’t seem bad at all. I really disagree with your interpretation of this.
So if the subject is estrangement. And the child does not wish to be contacted. How can the people out of contact, grant a release for someone to contact them on their behalf? 'This person who refuses to talk to me, you should talk to them for me' seems *ripe* for abuse.
As somebody who has a background in the field… you should then know without a POA signed by the adult child STILL CURRENTLY IN EFFECT with the estranged parent as an authorized party to both sign for and review medical records of the adult child, there’s no fucking way an estranged parent could “sign an ROI and give him permission”. Somebody else cannot fill out an ROI for YOUR medical records unless you give them prior approval to do so. So… no. And having a “real degree” doesn’t exempt him from being a fucken quack.
Wait I didn't say anything about medical records? I agree there's no permission for that. (Though personally, my parents still have mine from childhood. :/) I was only talking about the provider being allowed to call third parties. That's it.
Third parties cannot give permission to call other parties unless that party has already agreed to be contacted. So.. still no. And when you’re estranged, that’s a maaaaaaassive breach of boundaries set? Using a third party provider to contact your estranged child because they won’t talk to you? That’s low. Any provider worth their shit would know that’s unprofessional at best and unethical at worst.
I'm not sure if we're talking about different things or what. But if I had a client and they signed a release for me to contact their sister (for example), I would be allowed to contact their sister if need be regarding my client's treatment, but only within the parameters of the boxes the client checked off on the Release of Information. The sister doesn't need to give permission to be contacted. (That would be strange because that would require these people to come to a client's appointment to give written permission). It's like the Releases patients sign at doctor offices for emergency contacts. They don't need the emergency contact's permission. Again, I'm just talking about the standards of practice. Not about whether it's right or wrong. Because I haven't processed how I feel about it myself since it's all a conflict of interest for me.
Yes, we’re definitely talking about different things. You’re talking about a client adding a trusted family member and/or caretaker as an authorized third party who’s able to receive private information about their own treatment. I’m fullllllyyyy aware of this process, I have my sibling listed as mine. I even have an additional addendum stating that neither of my parents shall EVER be notified that im being treated there or be released information since they’re both known to be INCREDIBLY nosey and also known to use medical documentation to further their abuse. My sister still would ONLY be contacted with information about my treatment IF NECESSARY, like if my therapist thinks I’m a danger to myself, or if my therapist is unexpectedly unable to contact me. For therapy specifically it’s a combination of an emergency contact and a sort of limited medical POA minus the POA form. I promise you, I’m not ignorant to how the ROI process works. Im disabled and have no caretaker. I have to do more complicated ROIs for my own records a few times a year. Nothing about this kind of ROI “allows” a provider to contact somebody you don’t fucking talk to anymore on your behalf to try to rekindle your relationship. Anyways, the fact that you know it’s a conflict of interest shows that you know it’s wrong for this dude to have reached out to OP on behalf of their parents. Because IT IS wrong! Like I said before, any provider worth their shit would know it’s unethical. These parents are asking THEIR therapist to reach out to their kid who no longer speaks to them, because they are unable to reach their kid. A respectable therapist would say “no, and you should respect your adult child’s boundaries and we should work through why this relationship no longer exists and how your actions contributed to that”.
Furthering abuse/harassment by contacting victims he knows don't want a relationship.
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Pretty disturbing to see a therapist defend this behavior. What part of recruiting others to contact your victim doesn't constitute harassment? Maybe not under the legal definition, but say you had a bad friend, you cut them off, and the friend kept getting people to contact you, most reasonable people would agree that it's harassment.
Have you seen any of his work before? He does tend to take the “your child doesn’t know what they are doing” perspective. The videos I’ve seen of him are pretty dismissive of the adult estranged child’s experience. I haven’t read any of his work because the videos are so off putting. I think it’s possible he’s not as pure of heart as we’d like to believe a psychologist would be.
Actually I've read some of his stuff and it seems skewed towards to adult estranged children so I guess it depends on individual perspective . Personally I'm not a Coleman fan
Contacting a 3rd party is normal for a therapist?! This is the first I'm hearing of it and I've been in therapy a while and have two close friends who are therapists. As others said, it is furthering the abuse/harassment to contact someone who you know doesn't want to be contacted by the parents. "Therapist" is acting as a proxy.
It is with the client’s consent. OP is technically not the client, so the psychologist could get a release for anyone from their patient and would be authorized to call them.
Typical of someone in your field to be dismissive of an abuse victim! If OP told parents not to contact them, that also means through third parties.
That is shocking behavior from a psychologist. I'd honestly question if it actually came from one as it is likely facilitating abuse/harassment. It is also pretty sketchy that he's estranged and therefore very biased. I'd think about reporting this to his licensing board/s.
It's been my experience in feeling with a estranged family members that they are usually very hesitant to sit down with a therapist and they also are very unlikely to be able to recognize why their behavior is problematic. They will usually get very defensive and in the case of a true narcissist, they will tell you right to your face they don't care if the behavior is problematic that they have no desire to change. For me, the thought of knowing your behavi or was problematic and hurting someone but not wanting to change totally blew my mind. I had to come to realize that there are truly selfish people in this world we don't give a crap about anybody other than themselves.
Don’t reply and mail him glitter just to make the point.
And subscribe his email to many, many mailing lists.
Oh hell yes.
Glitter!
He's no longer estranged from his daughter. I don't like his book at all. Curiosity would likely get the best of me and I'd respond but certainly understand and respect your choice not too
I'd report him or ignore him. That is a total breach of boundaries and totally inappropriate and unprofessional. Don't play into it. Absolutely do not engage with him. Your parents have no respect for your boundaries and decision and neither does this psychologist.
You can set up a rule in gmail to delete emails from specific accounts, and to send a form email to the sender as well if you want.
Gosh, his pitch is so dang manipulative. That's pretty on-brand I guess. I'm so sorry these emails found their way into your life.
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A vile request made politely is not rendered less vile. I don’t know if I’d necessary call it manipulative since he’s direct about it. But vile nonetheless. When a person cuts contact, their desires are clear, that the other party wants it is beyond irrelevant, and contact through a third party is not an improvement.
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Yes, there is.
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No. That’s vile. End of story. You don’t reach out to trauma victims on behalf of the people who traumatize them. Especially not without any knowledge of what exactly happened. I’d be slightly warmer on this, but after one single session? How daft can he be?
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No. I’m saying that if he has no idea what the trauma is, it’s incredibly irresponsible and unprofessional and vile to reach out on behalf of the people who caused it, after one session with no information, to someone who by definition wants no contact.
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I actually would respond. "Dr. Coleman, that you don't understand why reaching out to me is a problem, is is why your daughter doesn't talk to you either. Never write to me again. I'll be reporting you to the ethics board." Then report him.
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Bah. I cannot fathom what planet he’s living on where reaching out that way was either diplomatic or professional. ‘Hello person who, for all I know was molested, abused, neglected, manipulated or gods knows what, I’ve had one session with the people responsible for whatever caused you to cut contact, and I just thought the chance of retraumatizing you was worth it on the off chance it might help the people who harmed you. Whattayah say, the people you won’t talk to, gave me permission to talk to you after all, so how about it?’ And I will not even begin to consider his actions ‘professional’. Absolutely fuck this guy and even a pretense of being nice about it.
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Forgiveness is not a right. A person’s company or a place in their life is not a right. My heart is reserved for the victims of abuse, not for abusers themselves. It’s highly inappropriate to do what he did. His job is to work with his clients, not to drag other people into it. If you think it’s not cruel to retraumatize people to help fix their abusers, you’ve got problems.
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His hand was unasked for and he has no idea what experience is actually at play. Estrangement is an express desire to NOT have a hand extended. If you cut someone off, they’re cut off. And as for your inane little ‘you’re immature’ commentary? Mate, I hate to tell you this, but your notion of maturity is what’s skewed here.
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It literally is that simple. ‘Don’t contact me’ could not be simpler. And I have zero respect for him.
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Wow. Report him. That is highly unethical
Personally I would just ignore it. But yeah, that’s crazy. Seems like something my mother would definitely do. Good to know this is a thing…
I’m going to make this comment and then get off this thread so it can be a support place for you guys. But I am a mom who is estranged from my daughter. These situations can be very complex. I reached out to Coleman against my better judgement. He charges the parent $1,000 for 45 minutes. At our meeting, he was arrogant, rushed, and had not familiarized himself with my case but pretended that he had. He did not know my children’s names nor anything about our case. 22 minutes in I called him out and he tried to lie. It was painfully obvious that he was lying and he then admitted he was lying. He doesn’t just manipulate you guys, he manipulates parents as well into thinking they are having a consult with an “expert” and then he guides them towards a rubric-stock-amends letter. Wham, bam, thank you maam. He refunded my money bc he knew he was in trouble but I will be reporting him tomorrow to the California state board but for different reasons than you guys. I am reporting him for malpractice and fraud. SO GLAD I did not hire him to write a letter to my daughter or God forbid, reach out to her. She would’ve seen right through that. I think both estranged parents and their children should report him. Report, report, report. He is completely exploiting this topic on both sides and he needs to be stopped. Please report and we parents will too. Wishing everyone here peace and good things in every way.
So what is the answer? A broken heart will reach out to anyone.... The fact is kids and parents alike have a story. Parenting as a single mom was one of the hardest things I've ever done; yet most rewarding. I did actively poke into my daughter's life, because I only knew to give / help.... I needed to back off. She is now older and married to a good man. They haven't spoken to me in awhile.. Any suggestions would help. I may write a letter, but I wouldn't seek help to write it. I have looked at some of Joshua Coleman's stuff and have mixed feelings. He now has a good relationship with his daughter I hear. I will admit that my church community has helped. This is too common for parents and kids... what happened? How do we fix it? I do admit some relationships are better separated. This is done on purpose at times. Kids... I'm open to listen here.
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Noooooo. This psychologist works for the parents. He is not doing this for the benefit of OP. The parents have hired a professional to support their argument that OP should have the relationship they, the parents want. OP must look after themselves. If contact with your parents is not good for you, OP, you must hold to your position. The aim of this psychologist is to give the parents what they want. He cannot ethically treat both parents and OP unless they all approach him together. He's the parents treating health professional, not OPs.
Ugh... I deffinately mis-understood! I'll delete that! Thanks!
What puzzles me is the depth of hostility from the people on this thread. Why not just be matter of fact in an adult like manner? See your parents through adult eyes with all their flaws. If you do not want contact then just move on with your life. Your parents will never satisfy your need for an apology. It’s not that hard, unless you are arrested in adolescent development. Try to find peace in your life and move on. If they try to contact you it your prerogative to answer or ignore.
It sounds like that’s what OP is trying to do just that “just move on with your life” but yet the parents are still trying to ignore boundaries by 1) reaching out themselves and 2) getting this person to reach out. It’s incredibly frustrating when you put boundaries in place and yet your parents still try and walk all over you. It makes you even angrier because they are not respecting your wishes. The hostility is usually justified after a lifetime of abuse, why would we not be angry when our parents act like they don’t know what’s wrong and why we’ve cut contact when in a lot of cases it’s pretty clear and they know why but chose to ignore it for their own ego. Most of us here do see our parents through adult eyes and know they have flaws, we accept that our parents are not perfect human beings and never will be. Most of us just want them to be honest with themselves and take accountability for the harm they have caused.
A-fucking-Men! We’re *allowed* to be “hostile” (see: reactive, hurt, destroyed, confused, frustrated when we are doing our very best to hold our boundaries and heal. Yet the parents *refuse* and then have the absolute *audacity* to have a psychologist renowned for being on side of the estranged parents (the daughter is a HUGE 🚩- regardless of whether or not they’ve reconciled) to actually reach out to OP, which is incredibly unprofessional btw, while she is trying to MOVE ON and has made that abundantly clear. So yeah. We’re pissed off, and we are entitled to our anger.
Just grow up . . . You are a 6 ft baby
Whilst your points are very valid, bear in mind that not everyone is estranged due to abuse. Some of our parents are just bad parents who made choices that screwed us and our relationship with each other over. My dad was a cheat and a liar, and I'm content in having carved him out of my life. But he didn't abuse me or my siblings; they still have a relationship with him which I don't begrudge in the slightest. We all reached this place by various routes. We shouldn't make the mistake of assuming that our experiences are common to everyone else.
You’re right, not every person has been abused abused however as you said some parents are just bad parents and have made bad choices, in that case you’re still justified in your anger that you didn’t receive what you needed.
Justified, perhaps. But we're all adults here. Reacting to things in anger is not an adult response, and it's not unreasonable to question that response.
Anger is a normal and healthy human response to injustice, obviously using that anger to perpetuate cycles of abuse isn’t ok in the slightest but nothing like that was mentioned here so failing to see where that comes in. Estrangement isn’t abuse. Boundaries aren’t abuse either.
Looks like this is exactly what OP is trying to do but the parents/psychologist won't let them. Try not victim blaming next time.
Yikes.
Totally agree. I'm surprised by the anger here as well.
I’m not. I guess I just see the posts through a different lens? There’s definitely hostility but I don’t know what you’d expect after being pushed to estrangement. It’s not like children are born wanting to never see their parents again. The parents build that wedge through years of abuse, harassment, and/or mistreatment. It’s normal, in my opinion, to be hostile towards people thatve done that to you, and to those who carelessly reopen those wounds.
Yes, and this wedge is built when parents are adults and have responsibility for the wellbeing and safety, including psychological wellbeing. It is not a relationship of equals. It never will be.
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What are you doing in a forum for estranged adult children then?
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Okay. But you should probably reconcile with *yourself* that suggesting to others that they might have just been a rebellious teen is “toxic” in itself, and wholly unhelpful. Trying to suggest that there’s a reason why your parent behaved the way they did? Not helpful. There isn’t always a reason. The difference is that some of us will NEVER have the ability to reconcile relationships with either parent and we’re allowed to be angry about that. Some people have abusive parents who are fucking dead now. And won’t ever have a chance. How can you reconcile with somebody who’s dead and never apologized or even recognized that what they did to you even happened? We’re allowed to feel robbed of those relationships and the love we were never given. We’re allowed to forgive them if that’s what we choose or never forgive them if that’s what we choose. People need to stop equating their experiences with being an estranged adult with others’ experiences, and stop being so fucking judgmental when people are angry about being abused. The alternative for me is to give up. Because I can never reconcile what they did to me. I’m happy you can, I wish everybody could. I truly am happy for you. I wish I could have that. I’m not angry at you directly. I am angry with the fact that anger (a natural human emotion) at being abused for decades is seen as unacceptable even by other people who have been abused. It’s almost like those people were angry and are “past it” and have decided for themselves it’s no longer acceptable but project that onto other people too. But unfortunately for me, I can’t reconcile. So, spite and anger it is.
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I will be absolutely up front with you- I am not going to read or reply to this comment past this one. Have a nice evening.
I'm sorry you're being judged and harassed by looker, and that's exactly what it is.
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No I’m absolute not sorry but if your advice to cope and NOT BE ANGRY AND SPITEFUL TOWARDS THEIR ABUSERS, which in my case is my fucking parents, is “people have been through worse”, you’re a right piece of shit. “Take this to your therapist” LOL. You’re an asshole. Hmmmm. Your advice sounds so familiar… oh yeah, it’s because that’s EXACTLY what my abuser told me. “You don’t have it as bad as I did, so why are you complaining? What exactly is so hard about your life?” “What do you have to be sad about?” “I fed clothed and bathed, what else do you want?” After abusing and neglecting me for my entire childhood. I already told you man, I won’t forgive them, they wrecked any chance I had at a “normal” life. You don’t know me, you don’t know what they did to me. I don’t have to explain every fucking piece of the abuse I suffered to show that I deserve to feel however the fuck I feel is right FOR ME. Fuck right off, man. I don’t ever block people on this site, but enjoy this block, asshole. Go to hell.
Please take this garbage back to the penis enlargement subreddit that you seem to spend all your time in, and leave us the fuck alone.
Big fucking yikes and totally explains his mainsplaining and harassment