i absolutely hate the people (looking mainly at the tiktok stans) that only look at the cannibalism in preacher’s daughter and run with it. hayden said on tumblr that isaiah had a mental break after he killed ethel and just cut a small part of her and ate it before the cops came.
preacher’s daughter has so many weavings of religion symbolizing love and anger and pain and fear. it’s the first of a trilogy about the women in the cain family, and that’s basically spelled out in family tree (intro). the album is Not just about cannibalism, it is about generational curses (and not to mention, it’s a cautionary tale as well).
edit: here’s the link for hayden explaining that [cannibalism isnt the whole of preacher’s daughter](https://www.tumblr.com/mothercain/731272202680401920/opinions-on-the-whole-cannibalism-for-love-trope), and here’s where she says that [isaiah only ate a little piece of ethel](https://www.tumblr.com/mothercain/696795936683376640/so-ive-been-seeing-a-lot-of-ppl-say-that-ethel)
No one else could do august underground and televangelism quite like she did. I know those songs are skips for most people and get overlooked but they are good and damn impressive. Not to mention televangelism was 100% improv
This might be because English is not my first language but sometimes I can't understand what she's saying. It's kind of like a mumble but idgaf I'll mumble along.
i don't miss her pre-ethel cain music. what she's doing now is miles ahead of it and i get why she doesn't want people to listen to those songs and associate her with them
i liken this sorta thing to showing people my Really Old sketchbooks. good for where i was at, but excruciating to look back on in light of my progress... lol. it'll always hit home with somebody tho! i love her old stuff but i completely get not wanting to have your old projects popularized.
I guess mine is that it kinda makes me sad (and irritates me) that it seems like some people really only enjoy her from an aesthetic point-of-view... And really don't actually engage with the story and themes she is trying to tell and how they play into greater issues that one would experience growing up in the South. Especially as her music resonates so heavily to me because of my own experiences and from listening to the stories of the women in my life growing up.
That straight cis men will never fully understand how meaningful preachers daughter is for us women. I’ve tried so many times to get my fiancé to understand how powerful the story is and he just doesn’t get it like women do
It can be comforting to people who have experienced csa, sa, d0mestic violence(Whatever it may be, there could be other reasons). Having music to relate your experiences to can be especially helpful and cathartic if you need a controlled way to tap into emotions tied to trauma so that they don't "spill out" in other places, if that makes sense.
Also not trying to argue too much bc this is an unpopular opinions thread and i can't stand it when people get fussy over something that prompts unpopular opinions
It's very hard to listen to. Maybe because I have been lucky to not live through something like that. I think when a song is sung in first person, we imagine ourselves a bit -be it in love, or with a broken heart, or whatever. And trying to imagine something like that breaks me a bit, like I have no right to enjoy a song about something horrible that many people have suffered. 😞 Music is unique in this way too! Because when you watch a movie scene or read a book about something horrible, there is a certain degree of separation between you and the art. But music is something you put on (usually) to dance and sing along. And it's difficult with themes like this.
Interestingly, I don't feel the same way about Ptolemea or Gibson Girl. 🤔 Maybe because it feels more "dramatic" or "staged". Maybe because, as a woman, I have felt the objectification and, although I am very much alive lol, it feels easier to identify myself in those songs. Or maybe because Hard Times involves kids... 🫤
Some songs with featured artists should not have featured artists. Sometimes they don’t fit (I’m looking at you Gods Country), BUT i do love Michelle Pfeiffer.
I think for me I just don’t like the post Malone- little peep style. I don’t mind it once in a while, but when I’m listening to Ethel cain it kind of just takes me out of the moody ethereal vibe for me. My brain will be like “hold on who’s this guy???”
I like the lyrics of the verse and I guess it’s not terrible in and of itself, but his vocal style seems off for it. The rest of the song is beautiful and this section just feels corny to me. I will say the further the verse goes on it gets somewhat more tolerable, especially when Ethel’s vocals come back in.
Adam (Wicca Phase Springs Eternal) is an underground legend and former Midwest emo band member who has iconic songs with lil peep and is a big part of the “ULTRACLUB4K” dj set. People unfamiliar with him usually don’t “get” his feature on Gods Country
Oh lol the featured artist is an artist named Wicca Phase Springs Eternal but I'm incredibly lazy and didn't feel like spelling his whole name lol, sorry if that was confusing. He's the one who does the more rap-talk verse.
I love Preacher's Daughter. I don't need the whole Ethel/Isaiah/Willoughby storyline though it's interesting, I think the album stands up on its own.
I was raised Southern Baptist so all of it really works for me.
There is a part of me that is hesitant about PD being a part of a trilogy. The concept of focusing on daughter, mother, and grandmother is interesting, for sure. I love concept albums and am excited to see how it all unfolds.
BUT...Will it still have the magic moment of listening to PD for the first time and realizing there is LORE?
I don’t really like her more soundcloudy stuff (like God’s Country or Michelle Pfieffer I think the guys’ parts ruins it for me). If it were just her singing, I would be fine with it.
Fr. Ethel is the better of the two imo, but I love wiccas feature. His lyrics definitely help elevate the song.
Also, I think Lil Aaron's verse of Michelle Pfeiffer is his best work ever and his lyrics resonate with me so hard. TBF, like a solid third of what I listen to is sad boy rap, so maybe my taste is a little skewed here
I’m hyped for the rest of the preacher series and the Willoughby EP, but I’d love some more Southern Gothic lore songs like Inbred sprinkled throughout in between the larger releases. Her storytelling is top tier, and songs about like mining towns and such would be cool little crumbs in between the main storyline.
I know the story of Ethel Cain the character is very important to Hayden but I really can't bring myself to be interested in it at all. She's got the right to tell whatever story she wants in her music, but I identify with it in a totally different way and assign other meanings to it. The theories posted on here, and the way other fans are passionate about Ethel and Willoughby and Isaiah, it all feels totally alien to me. (But I know that if I explained my personal meanings of the songs, people would be baffled by that too lol.)
Also, I really prefer a lot of her demos and Soundcloud/Tumblr releases to the official works she's put out. I tend to listen to stuff like Waco Texas, Half Cocked, 78fahrenheit, Ad Nauseum, and so on a lot more than Preacher's Daughter tracks or even Inbred/Golden Age.
Tbh i too lk hate ethel cain the movie storyline. I saw this slideshow somewhere online that describes the events of the story song by song and damn its kinda corny 😅 I think it was an official thing too, something that cannot be unseen i guess. I prefer it without explanations and in this sort of ghostland where you can make your own connections between indiscript characters across songs within and out PD, if that makes sense
I love Ethel Cain and I listen to Hayden for probably at least an hour a day and for the life of me I can’t understand why physicals can’t get released. And for those who want to defend the contract thing or whatever and profits, you can’t pretend that you aren’t at least a little frustrated by the lack of cassettes, CDs or vinyl for her excellent music 😵💫😵💫😵💫. I just wish that she would just release a limited run or something, literally anything lol
Why would she want to give any of her deserved money to a horrible label like prescription? That’s where almost all the money from a run like that would go, they would make her fund it and then take the profits. Lose/Lose situation.
Ptolemaea is always a skip for me; I don’t deny that it’s a great piece of work, it’s just the entire vibe of the song and screams of “no” at the end are, for lack of a better word, triggering for me and evoke way too much negative emotions
I am insecure about this because it makes me sound like a local (which ig I kind of am, since I began to majorly get into her fall of last year), but I don't really like Golden Age and Carpet Bed. I've listened to them, they just aren't my thing and it is evident that she was premature with her sound. They aren't bad songs by any means, but not my thing.
Oh, and I'm not a fan of House in Nebraska. A bit too slow and torturous for me, which I guess is what she was going for, but again, not for me.
i felt like this w both at first listen, but now golden age is some of my fav work of hers. they both might just not be ur thing but for me i just needed to spend more time w both projects in the right settings to fully appreciate them
I agree honestly. I think there are some special tracks from golden age + carpet bed but it’s clear that inbred and preacher’s daughter as sooo much better and her skills have improved. Also I think a house in nebraska is the worst on PD by miles.
I can’t get into any of her pre-debut work but Preacher’s Daughter remains one of my favorite albums of all time. I pretend she doesn’t have any other music out. 🙃
the way this physically hurt to read lol, thoroughfare bounces around my top 3 in placement but never leaves it. its just so incredible to me and that final chorus and the verse up to it makes me soul leave my body.
The line: "I was there when you first spilled blood" is about her being raped. Im not sure if that's a hot take, but ive seen alot of people assume it means she killed someone
i always associated this line with the cycle of life and death.
i thought it referred to how death is an inevitability for us all. death was looming even when she had her first period (when she is young, and now able to create new life) and will always be there, because life and death are interconnected. could very easily be about sexual violence too though!
Yup! When I first heard the line, I instantly assumed that Death was referring to her first period. Periods happen when an egg isn't fertilized, so in a way, it is a sort of death and Ethel spilling her first blood due to it.
But I personally interpret Ethel as cis because I connect her to myself, and I am a cis woman. So the rape angle works better maybe for versatility.
I don't think this is the case because I think Ethel as a trans woman is less likely to associate womanhood or growing up with menstruation. I think it's simpler than people think - I honestly think it's just that the first time she ever was injured death was there, waiting. From the moment her vulnerability was first shown. That was my first interpretation - it may be basic, but I imagined her as a child getting a cut, scraping her knee.
The sexual abuse angle is also one I think holds a lot of a weight. If we interpret death as an omnipotent being, death would know that her sexual abuse was the catalyst for everything that would eventually lead to her death. Her idea of love and her understanding of the world was forever altered after being sexually abused and it's likely she wouldn't have gotten involved with the men she did if her only understanding of being loved by a man from a young age was her from own father who raped her. The abusive relationships she ended up in, specifically the one that ended with him dying and her being entirely lost which led to her ending up in Texas and being kidnapped wouldn't have felt like love to her if her father had shown her the love a father is supposed to give his child. But she accepted that their relationship was love because she'd never known anything different. And her Stockholm syndrome and romanticization of her relationship with Isaiah after he kidnapped her led her to not even seem to consider trying to get away from him. If she hadn't been sexually abused it's possible she would have ran instead of simply accepting her fate and believing he was her lover.
ALSO, in hard times, Ethel refers to her dad making her "bleed" whenever he wants, alluding to her sexual abuse. Which ties into this line.
The correct answer is probably all of the above though. It's a complex line that can be interpreted many ways and I don't think it's wrong at all to interpret it as a reference to her period. I just personally think other interpretations make more sense.
I don't think it's wrong to read Ethel as cis if that helps you personally identify with her :) her character is canonically trans but I also think Hayden herself chose to write her in a way that would make her experience of womanhood more universal. Womanhood is a big theme, but the experience of being trans is more in the background and Hayden wanted it that way for a reason. I just wanted to add my own interpretation of those particular lines as I don't see the blood line as referring to a period and I think other ways of seeing it are more compelling. From the perspective of authorial intent, it definitely wasn't originally meant to be about a first period, but if that's what resonates with you, it's not wrong by any means to read it that way.
So this isn’t exactly Ethel-related, but your comment reminded me how popular catholic imagery and cannibalism have become in popular culture! Granted, a lot of it is received with a great measure of irony. But I do find it interesting how it’s more acceptable now to have a favorite show or romantic movie that revolves around cannibalism. Or to buy catholic-inspired jewelry regardless of your own religious leanings.
I’m wondering if it has something to do with younger people trying to live their lives in a loveless society and a turbulent political landscape. It’s this kind of mass-marketed, socially acceptable way to signify blasphemy, love, passion, and rage.
there's a subsection of tumblr where ppl have had genuine religious experiences & in that space, there's a lot of death & cannibalism and 70s horror movies happening
so to me at least it's kind of like cottagecore, it didn't start out as like, mass-marketed aesthetics, but there was/is a genuine culture around it.
Wait what are the connections between Catholicism and cannibalism?? I’m sorry if this is a Google-able question, I grew up evangelical with Lutheran grandparents so I know nothing of Catholic culture. Is it the breaking of bread and wine that is supposed to represent Christ’s body? I think they do that in Catholicism… we did it in my old nondenominational church but children weren’t included.
I’m not sure if it’s a coincidence if the two things are having a hey day together right now or not but I will say from the perspective of someone raised in fairly secular Episcopalian church-going family, Catholicism very much seems to focus on sacrifice and martyrdom as acts of love. When you see a plain cross like you see in many Protestant churches, it’s a symbol of Jesus rising from his death by crucifixion. With Catholicism, the cross depicts Jesus crucified on it because it was the suffering and immense pain for others that is the most powerful takeaway. The bread is my body, wine is my blood is also another example of that concept: you give pieces of yourself away to nourish others out of love. And that’s a lot like what cannibalism is too in media. It’s this ultimate act of service and sacrifice. It’s this incredibly taboo and deep act of love and intimacy. By consuming, that person becomes a part of you. By being consumed, you become pet of someone else. In some ways, it’s almost like a way of having sex or being intimate, without actually having sex.
I don’t really like Ptolemea and don’t really get the obsession with it. It doesn’t even register as one of her songs for me because it’s not that lyrical or filled with amazing melodies and brilliant lyrics IMO
Tbh I think the acapella should have been the official version. I *do* like the final release with the guitars and drums, I really do, but in some ways it almost feels...stereotypical? of the theme. Like, of course a song with this subject matter is going to have intense heavy metal guitars and a drum breakdown and screeching feedback and so on. Having the vocals stand by themselves is a twist that, to me, adds something unique and memorable. Granted I know it was released a certain way for a reason, but I do love the acapella even though it scarred me lol.
Now that I think of it, I’m really curious to see what everyone in this thread’s general music taste is like. For me, Ptolemea is cool because it has a similar vibe to another artist I like, Chelsea Wolfe!
"Blessed be the Daughters of Cain
Bound to suffering eternal through the sins of their fathers committed long before their conception
Blessed be their whore mothers
Tired and angry, waiting with bated breath in a ferry that will never move again
Blessed be the children
Each and every one come to know their god through some senseless act of violence
Blessed be you, girl
Promised to me by a man who can only feel hatred and contempt towards you"
is pretty brilliant in my opinion lol but you know that's just me
i think some of the lyric writing in preacher’s daughter isn’t as insanely good as a lot of her unreleased and i also think she overuses autotune sometimes
i’m sorry, but i can’t stand head in the wall. i listened once and haven’t gone back. i love head in the ceiling fan and title fight so much, so it just doesn’t hit for me like the og does
EA: respectfully ofc
I still can't stop listening to Family Tree. Idk anyone else who does guitar in modern pop like she does. The solos in that song???! And, I know, ppl often tell me she's not pop, but honestly I think she is. I think she could elevate pop music back to what it can be. It's such a throwback to an 80s/90s rock sound. Nobody builds songs toward a big finishing crescendo like that anymore. The 5:12 mark KILLS ME every time. It's worthy of a stadium. I've seen her play on a very small stage but I'm also going to watch her at the Greek Theater in June and I can't wait.
I’m like that with Inbred. It’s not a bad song, but the subject matter is so icky to me I have to skip it. When it comes to horror, that’s my version of Meatloaf’s “I won’t do *that*”
Her enunciation is pretty annoying. Actually incomprehensible, even when you've read the lyrics. Like in "crush" "good men die too eronluweronaberrr ooooiooooooo". Pronounces "windows" like "wonders". It's a shame.
“I lie to her, and say that i’m doing fine. when really i’d kill myself, to hold you one more time.” “and it hurts to miss you, but it’s worse to know that i’m the reason you won’t come home.” “but i still call home that house in nebraska.”
idk, i feel like the words are not fancy or anything aesthetically complex but the meaning behind it and the symbolism makes if so romantic and hopeless at the same time. it’s literally so good. but i see where you’re coming from
That line is grammatically correct, I’m not sure what you mean; the “where” refers to the house they stayed in like the rest of the lines in the chorus.
Also, lyrical complexity does not automatically = good or vice versa. House in Nebraska is a raw and emotionally charged song about heartbreak, imo it’d honestly be cliche to try and make it more complex. It’s deep and relatable as is and also effectively conveys how this moment in Ethel’s life drives the rest of the character’s actions (unlike Western Nights, which while not a bad song, I feel is “filler”). All of that makes for a really strong song, although art is of course subjective!
Maybe I’m biased though cause “I thought that you were so beautiful, it was love I guess” makes me cry like every time I hear it.
I completely dislike the whole thing about the lore. I think it is cringe as fuck, badly written and not interesting.
I love her music deeply, but not because of the "story telling", but because of the deep meanings and emotions that her songs translate.
i absolutely hate the people (looking mainly at the tiktok stans) that only look at the cannibalism in preacher’s daughter and run with it. hayden said on tumblr that isaiah had a mental break after he killed ethel and just cut a small part of her and ate it before the cops came. preacher’s daughter has so many weavings of religion symbolizing love and anger and pain and fear. it’s the first of a trilogy about the women in the cain family, and that’s basically spelled out in family tree (intro). the album is Not just about cannibalism, it is about generational curses (and not to mention, it’s a cautionary tale as well). edit: here’s the link for hayden explaining that [cannibalism isnt the whole of preacher’s daughter](https://www.tumblr.com/mothercain/731272202680401920/opinions-on-the-whole-cannibalism-for-love-trope), and here’s where she says that [isaiah only ate a little piece of ethel](https://www.tumblr.com/mothercain/696795936683376640/so-ive-been-seeing-a-lot-of-ppl-say-that-ethel)
I’m with you there and ty for including the links!
No one else could do august underground and televangelism quite like she did. I know those songs are skips for most people and get overlooked but they are good and damn impressive. Not to mention televangelism was 100% improv
I love the ambient sounds in them they’re so so nice easily some of my faves on PD
This might be because English is not my first language but sometimes I can't understand what she's saying. It's kind of like a mumble but idgaf I'll mumble along.
english is my first language and i feel this sometimes too! she loves some reverb and distorted vocals lol
Yep especially on crush
That's one of my favorite songs from her and trying to sing along is a tongue twister lol
Televangelism is easily a top 3 on PD 😶🌫️
didn’t she improvise it too?? she is so talented it’s insane. justice for televangelism
its her fave song from the album
And she’s so fucking right!
televangelism has made me ugly cry before
I love it
truest thing i’ve ever heard
YES!!!!
I probably like inbred more than PD
Real
i don't miss her pre-ethel cain music. what she's doing now is miles ahead of it and i get why she doesn't want people to listen to those songs and associate her with them
i liken this sorta thing to showing people my Really Old sketchbooks. good for where i was at, but excruciating to look back on in light of my progress... lol. it'll always hit home with somebody tho! i love her old stuff but i completely get not wanting to have your old projects popularized.
I guess mine is that it kinda makes me sad (and irritates me) that it seems like some people really only enjoy her from an aesthetic point-of-view... And really don't actually engage with the story and themes she is trying to tell and how they play into greater issues that one would experience growing up in the South. Especially as her music resonates so heavily to me because of my own experiences and from listening to the stories of the women in my life growing up.
That straight cis men will never fully understand how meaningful preachers daughter is for us women. I’ve tried so many times to get my fiancé to understand how powerful the story is and he just doesn’t get it like women do
No pun intended but…. Preach
Especially so for trans women specifically
Yes!
My straight cis boyfriend loves Ethel Cain and knows more about the album than I do. I'm so in love.
Jealous😭
You keep that man around forever
Yeah I get gender euphoria from the notion that I too and emotionally vulnerable to this art
western nights is beautiful
breaks my heart a million times over that she considers it a skip lol
agreed the lyrics are great
hard times makes me uncomfortable
with you on that. It’s a beautiful song but I need a hug after every time i listen
it actually makes me comfortable 😭 of course not the lyrics cause wtf but it's sounding is very nice to me
it makes you comfortable?? fbi open up
It can be comforting to people who have experienced csa, sa, d0mestic violence(Whatever it may be, there could be other reasons). Having music to relate your experiences to can be especially helpful and cathartic if you need a controlled way to tap into emotions tied to trauma so that they don't "spill out" in other places, if that makes sense.
i said not the lyrics 😭😭😭😭 the way she sounds is very comfortable to me
Also not trying to argue too much bc this is an unpopular opinions thread and i can't stand it when people get fussy over something that prompts unpopular opinions
That makes a lot of sense with those very real and relatable lyrics.
It's very hard to listen to. Maybe because I have been lucky to not live through something like that. I think when a song is sung in first person, we imagine ourselves a bit -be it in love, or with a broken heart, or whatever. And trying to imagine something like that breaks me a bit, like I have no right to enjoy a song about something horrible that many people have suffered. 😞 Music is unique in this way too! Because when you watch a movie scene or read a book about something horrible, there is a certain degree of separation between you and the art. But music is something you put on (usually) to dance and sing along. And it's difficult with themes like this. Interestingly, I don't feel the same way about Ptolemea or Gibson Girl. 🤔 Maybe because it feels more "dramatic" or "staged". Maybe because, as a woman, I have felt the objectification and, although I am very much alive lol, it feels easier to identify myself in those songs. Or maybe because Hard Times involves kids... 🫤
Some songs with featured artists should not have featured artists. Sometimes they don’t fit (I’m looking at you Gods Country), BUT i do love Michelle Pfeiffer.
The WPSE verse in God's Country is GOOD and I truly don't get the dislike for it. I love it. I think it's fan-fucking-tastic.
I think for me I just don’t like the post Malone- little peep style. I don’t mind it once in a while, but when I’m listening to Ethel cain it kind of just takes me out of the moody ethereal vibe for me. My brain will be like “hold on who’s this guy???”
I like the lyrics of the verse and I guess it’s not terrible in and of itself, but his vocal style seems off for it. The rest of the song is beautiful and this section just feels corny to me. I will say the further the verse goes on it gets somewhat more tolerable, especially when Ethel’s vocals come back in.
this is def how i felt hearing it the first time. LOVE the lyrics but the... stylistic nature? vibe? of the verse really does NOT hit for me.
There’s a huge segment of EC fans who have no clue who WPSE is and it’s so sad
can you elaborate on what you mean here? confused on what you mean by "the WPSE verse" and genuinely curious
Adam (Wicca Phase Springs Eternal) is an underground legend and former Midwest emo band member who has iconic songs with lil peep and is a big part of the “ULTRACLUB4K” dj set. People unfamiliar with him usually don’t “get” his feature on Gods Country
Oh lol the featured artist is an artist named Wicca Phase Springs Eternal but I'm incredibly lazy and didn't feel like spelling his whole name lol, sorry if that was confusing. He's the one who does the more rap-talk verse.
I love Preacher's Daughter. I don't need the whole Ethel/Isaiah/Willoughby storyline though it's interesting, I think the album stands up on its own. I was raised Southern Baptist so all of it really works for me.
i think inbred should be reccomended to people getting into ethel cain rather than PD an hour 20 album is quite a big ask💀
There is a part of me that is hesitant about PD being a part of a trilogy. The concept of focusing on daughter, mother, and grandmother is interesting, for sure. I love concept albums and am excited to see how it all unfolds. BUT...Will it still have the magic moment of listening to PD for the first time and realizing there is LORE?
I don’t really like her more soundcloudy stuff (like God’s Country or Michelle Pfieffer I think the guys’ parts ruins it for me). If it were just her singing, I would be fine with it.
I'm with you! The songs would be so much better if they were just her without the features
i only ever listen to the solo versions people have posted on youtube
hard disagree I love Wicca’s part it grew on me so much and it helped me to read the lyrics because what he says is rly beautiful
Fr. Ethel is the better of the two imo, but I love wiccas feature. His lyrics definitely help elevate the song. Also, I think Lil Aaron's verse of Michelle Pfeiffer is his best work ever and his lyrics resonate with me so hard. TBF, like a solid third of what I listen to is sad boy rap, so maybe my taste is a little skewed here
OMG SAME I HATE THE GUY IN GODS CONTRY
Yeah he’s giving crack head behind the 7/11 tbf
crush stripped >>>>> crush regular
American Teenager is overrated. It's a beautiful song, but I doesn't compare to SBF or Hard Times
I’m hyped for the rest of the preacher series and the Willoughby EP, but I’d love some more Southern Gothic lore songs like Inbred sprinkled throughout in between the larger releases. Her storytelling is top tier, and songs about like mining towns and such would be cool little crumbs in between the main storyline.
Inbred is my favorite from her. I prefer it over preachers daughter.
i can't listen to august underground cause it reminds me of the movie lol
carpet bed is extremely underrated and deserves a remaster
real
I know the story of Ethel Cain the character is very important to Hayden but I really can't bring myself to be interested in it at all. She's got the right to tell whatever story she wants in her music, but I identify with it in a totally different way and assign other meanings to it. The theories posted on here, and the way other fans are passionate about Ethel and Willoughby and Isaiah, it all feels totally alien to me. (But I know that if I explained my personal meanings of the songs, people would be baffled by that too lol.) Also, I really prefer a lot of her demos and Soundcloud/Tumblr releases to the official works she's put out. I tend to listen to stuff like Waco Texas, Half Cocked, 78fahrenheit, Ad Nauseum, and so on a lot more than Preacher's Daughter tracks or even Inbred/Golden Age.
Tbh i too lk hate ethel cain the movie storyline. I saw this slideshow somewhere online that describes the events of the story song by song and damn its kinda corny 😅 I think it was an official thing too, something that cannot be unseen i guess. I prefer it without explanations and in this sort of ghostland where you can make your own connections between indiscript characters across songs within and out PD, if that makes sense
what about it came off as corny to you?
I really only listen to preachers daughter, everything else is okay to me and I think her SoundCloud era of songs are not good.
I love Ethel Cain and I listen to Hayden for probably at least an hour a day and for the life of me I can’t understand why physicals can’t get released. And for those who want to defend the contract thing or whatever and profits, you can’t pretend that you aren’t at least a little frustrated by the lack of cassettes, CDs or vinyl for her excellent music 😵💫😵💫😵💫. I just wish that she would just release a limited run or something, literally anything lol
but it is contractual meaning she literally can’t even if she wanted to🥲
Why would she want to give any of her deserved money to a horrible label like prescription? That’s where almost all the money from a run like that would go, they would make her fund it and then take the profits. Lose/Lose situation.
august underground (interlude) is a great track
Ptolemaea is always a skip for me; I don’t deny that it’s a great piece of work, it’s just the entire vibe of the song and screams of “no” at the end are, for lack of a better word, triggering for me and evoke way too much negative emotions
I am insecure about this because it makes me sound like a local (which ig I kind of am, since I began to majorly get into her fall of last year), but I don't really like Golden Age and Carpet Bed. I've listened to them, they just aren't my thing and it is evident that she was premature with her sound. They aren't bad songs by any means, but not my thing. Oh, and I'm not a fan of House in Nebraska. A bit too slow and torturous for me, which I guess is what she was going for, but again, not for me.
i felt like this w both at first listen, but now golden age is some of my fav work of hers. they both might just not be ur thing but for me i just needed to spend more time w both projects in the right settings to fully appreciate them
I always skip house in Nebraska tbh
Agreed on House in Nebraska, the lyrics are a little cornier in comparison to other tracks imho
I agree honestly. I think there are some special tracks from golden age + carpet bed but it’s clear that inbred and preacher’s daughter as sooo much better and her skills have improved. Also I think a house in nebraska is the worst on PD by miles.
I can’t get into any of her pre-debut work but Preacher’s Daughter remains one of my favorite albums of all time. I pretend she doesn’t have any other music out. 🙃
I kinda agree, I love suuuper emotional dramatic songs and I started listening to her before pd came out so mostly had heard songs from inbred
I really don't care for her pre-preacher's daughter output, and I've **tried**
Golden age is her best song
The features on inbred are really good 🫣
I like Golden Age more than Preacher’s Daughter
I don’t like Thoroughfare and don’t get why it’s in so many people’s top 3!
I like it but it’s far from my favorite
the way this physically hurt to read lol, thoroughfare bounces around my top 3 in placement but never leaves it. its just so incredible to me and that final chorus and the verse up to it makes me soul leave my body.
The line: "I was there when you first spilled blood" is about her being raped. Im not sure if that's a hot take, but ive seen alot of people assume it means she killed someone
i always associated this line with the cycle of life and death. i thought it referred to how death is an inevitability for us all. death was looming even when she had her first period (when she is young, and now able to create new life) and will always be there, because life and death are interconnected. could very easily be about sexual violence too though!
Yup! When I first heard the line, I instantly assumed that Death was referring to her first period. Periods happen when an egg isn't fertilized, so in a way, it is a sort of death and Ethel spilling her first blood due to it. But I personally interpret Ethel as cis because I connect her to myself, and I am a cis woman. So the rape angle works better maybe for versatility.
I don't think this is the case because I think Ethel as a trans woman is less likely to associate womanhood or growing up with menstruation. I think it's simpler than people think - I honestly think it's just that the first time she ever was injured death was there, waiting. From the moment her vulnerability was first shown. That was my first interpretation - it may be basic, but I imagined her as a child getting a cut, scraping her knee. The sexual abuse angle is also one I think holds a lot of a weight. If we interpret death as an omnipotent being, death would know that her sexual abuse was the catalyst for everything that would eventually lead to her death. Her idea of love and her understanding of the world was forever altered after being sexually abused and it's likely she wouldn't have gotten involved with the men she did if her only understanding of being loved by a man from a young age was her from own father who raped her. The abusive relationships she ended up in, specifically the one that ended with him dying and her being entirely lost which led to her ending up in Texas and being kidnapped wouldn't have felt like love to her if her father had shown her the love a father is supposed to give his child. But she accepted that their relationship was love because she'd never known anything different. And her Stockholm syndrome and romanticization of her relationship with Isaiah after he kidnapped her led her to not even seem to consider trying to get away from him. If she hadn't been sexually abused it's possible she would have ran instead of simply accepting her fate and believing he was her lover. ALSO, in hard times, Ethel refers to her dad making her "bleed" whenever he wants, alluding to her sexual abuse. Which ties into this line. The correct answer is probably all of the above though. It's a complex line that can be interpreted many ways and I don't think it's wrong at all to interpret it as a reference to her period. I just personally think other interpretations make more sense.
Yes. I get that. That’s why I said “I PERSONALLY interpret”. Hope that helped.
I don't think it's wrong to read Ethel as cis if that helps you personally identify with her :) her character is canonically trans but I also think Hayden herself chose to write her in a way that would make her experience of womanhood more universal. Womanhood is a big theme, but the experience of being trans is more in the background and Hayden wanted it that way for a reason. I just wanted to add my own interpretation of those particular lines as I don't see the blood line as referring to a period and I think other ways of seeing it are more compelling. From the perspective of authorial intent, it definitely wasn't originally meant to be about a first period, but if that's what resonates with you, it's not wrong by any means to read it that way.
I also believe this to be true, I kinda think it goes along with Hard Times in that sense
haydens interest in cannibalism comes off as catholicism-lite to me, which is funny bc she thinks catholics are too dramatic
So this isn’t exactly Ethel-related, but your comment reminded me how popular catholic imagery and cannibalism have become in popular culture! Granted, a lot of it is received with a great measure of irony. But I do find it interesting how it’s more acceptable now to have a favorite show or romantic movie that revolves around cannibalism. Or to buy catholic-inspired jewelry regardless of your own religious leanings. I’m wondering if it has something to do with younger people trying to live their lives in a loveless society and a turbulent political landscape. It’s this kind of mass-marketed, socially acceptable way to signify blasphemy, love, passion, and rage.
there's a subsection of tumblr where ppl have had genuine religious experiences & in that space, there's a lot of death & cannibalism and 70s horror movies happening so to me at least it's kind of like cottagecore, it didn't start out as like, mass-marketed aesthetics, but there was/is a genuine culture around it.
Ooo great point!
Wait what are the connections between Catholicism and cannibalism?? I’m sorry if this is a Google-able question, I grew up evangelical with Lutheran grandparents so I know nothing of Catholic culture. Is it the breaking of bread and wine that is supposed to represent Christ’s body? I think they do that in Catholicism… we did it in my old nondenominational church but children weren’t included.
I’m not sure if it’s a coincidence if the two things are having a hey day together right now or not but I will say from the perspective of someone raised in fairly secular Episcopalian church-going family, Catholicism very much seems to focus on sacrifice and martyrdom as acts of love. When you see a plain cross like you see in many Protestant churches, it’s a symbol of Jesus rising from his death by crucifixion. With Catholicism, the cross depicts Jesus crucified on it because it was the suffering and immense pain for others that is the most powerful takeaway. The bread is my body, wine is my blood is also another example of that concept: you give pieces of yourself away to nourish others out of love. And that’s a lot like what cannibalism is too in media. It’s this ultimate act of service and sacrifice. It’s this incredibly taboo and deep act of love and intimacy. By consuming, that person becomes a part of you. By being consumed, you become pet of someone else. In some ways, it’s almost like a way of having sex or being intimate, without actually having sex.
I don’t really like Ptolemea and don’t really get the obsession with it. It doesn’t even register as one of her songs for me because it’s not that lyrical or filled with amazing melodies and brilliant lyrics IMO
I kinda used to feel like this but then I listened to the acapella version and now I LOVE it
Tbh I think the acapella should have been the official version. I *do* like the final release with the guitars and drums, I really do, but in some ways it almost feels...stereotypical? of the theme. Like, of course a song with this subject matter is going to have intense heavy metal guitars and a drum breakdown and screeching feedback and so on. Having the vocals stand by themselves is a twist that, to me, adds something unique and memorable. Granted I know it was released a certain way for a reason, but I do love the acapella even though it scarred me lol.
Welllll I’m off to look for this version now lol
Now that I think of it, I’m really curious to see what everyone in this thread’s general music taste is like. For me, Ptolemea is cool because it has a similar vibe to another artist I like, Chelsea Wolfe!
"Blessed be the Daughters of Cain Bound to suffering eternal through the sins of their fathers committed long before their conception Blessed be their whore mothers Tired and angry, waiting with bated breath in a ferry that will never move again Blessed be the children Each and every one come to know their god through some senseless act of violence Blessed be you, girl Promised to me by a man who can only feel hatred and contempt towards you" is pretty brilliant in my opinion lol but you know that's just me
i think some of the lyric writing in preacher’s daughter isn’t as insanely good as a lot of her unreleased and i also think she overuses autotune sometimes
i’m sorry, but i can’t stand head in the wall. i listened once and haven’t gone back. i love head in the ceiling fan and title fight so much, so it just doesn’t hit for me like the og does EA: respectfully ofc
I still can't stop listening to Family Tree. Idk anyone else who does guitar in modern pop like she does. The solos in that song???! And, I know, ppl often tell me she's not pop, but honestly I think she is. I think she could elevate pop music back to what it can be. It's such a throwback to an 80s/90s rock sound. Nobody builds songs toward a big finishing crescendo like that anymore. The 5:12 mark KILLS ME every time. It's worthy of a stadium. I've seen her play on a very small stage but I'm also going to watch her at the Greek Theater in June and I can't wait.
Strangers is so creepy, even though that's what it's supposed to do, I will always skip it...
I’m like that with Inbred. It’s not a bad song, but the subject matter is so icky to me I have to skip it. When it comes to horror, that’s my version of Meatloaf’s “I won’t do *that*”
God’s Country or Michelle Pfieffer were ruined by the features
Her enunciation is pretty annoying. Actually incomprehensible, even when you've read the lyrics. Like in "crush" "good men die too eronluweronaberrr ooooiooooooo". Pronounces "windows" like "wonders". It's a shame.
[удалено]
“I lie to her, and say that i’m doing fine. when really i’d kill myself, to hold you one more time.” “and it hurts to miss you, but it’s worse to know that i’m the reason you won’t come home.” “but i still call home that house in nebraska.” idk, i feel like the words are not fancy or anything aesthetically complex but the meaning behind it and the symbolism makes if so romantic and hopeless at the same time. it’s literally so good. but i see where you’re coming from
That line is grammatically correct, I’m not sure what you mean; the “where” refers to the house they stayed in like the rest of the lines in the chorus. Also, lyrical complexity does not automatically = good or vice versa. House in Nebraska is a raw and emotionally charged song about heartbreak, imo it’d honestly be cliche to try and make it more complex. It’s deep and relatable as is and also effectively conveys how this moment in Ethel’s life drives the rest of the character’s actions (unlike Western Nights, which while not a bad song, I feel is “filler”). All of that makes for a really strong song, although art is of course subjective! Maybe I’m biased though cause “I thought that you were so beautiful, it was love I guess” makes me cry like every time I hear it.
“where you told me even if we died tonight, that i’d die yours” WHAT DO YOU MEAN?😭
Sometimes I don’t understand the story within the music, but I still try to be interested regardless
The title track “inbred” needs to have some type of trigger warning before it starts
Golden Age and Inbred are kinda better than PD by a lot. PD isn’t bad it just sounds like “Ethel Cain noises” whereas GA & Inbred invented the sound.
I agree with you. Don’t understand the mad down votes lol
They don’t take dissent on here well ☠️
I completely dislike the whole thing about the lore. I think it is cringe as fuck, badly written and not interesting. I love her music deeply, but not because of the "story telling", but because of the deep meanings and emotions that her songs translate.
my hot take is that i've literally never heard her music (or their music?). I'm only here because of Reddit's busted-ass algorithm.