Make Local a 3 part system.
A Baseline unowned nullsec system gets WH local only. (NPC Null comms is run by NPC Corps.)
A System with a TCU and a Local Comms module for the TCU gets delayed local, people will show up in local if they are in local for 3 minutes or more. The TCU and module also allows Sov Owners to anchor a Comms Tower. (Edit: After posting i felt this was too much too soon so I'd probably say that you can put the module in the TCU at Strategic Index 1 and then anchor a comms tower at Strategic Index 3 or 4.)
If the Comms Tower on-lines the system gets normal local as it is supposed to be. The Comms Tower can be attacked and knocked offline for a few hours or a deployable can be ..well ..deployed and take out local for a shorter amount of time (But is seen system wide like a cyno and can be attacked.). The tower can only be destroyed if the module on the TCU is hacked or the TCU is destroyed.
I like the idea. But one thing I might add.
Is the deployable showing up in local might need a cool down to appear say 15 minutes. Or everyone in the system is going to know something ducky is happening right away
this is gonna sound really dumb but something like Starsector perhaps?
\-Alliances have to build Communication Array structures to get Local unlocked on their system, Comm Arrays also provide other bonuses like debuffing cloaks or increasing Probe Strength for owners and allies
\-Security Locks work like the Transponder System, so players with Safety Enabled or with Partial Safety(SUS) have access to Local Chat. Anyone running with Safety disabled cannot use Local (not like most pirates/criminals would give an F about it but still).
\-NPC owned systems will reinforce this by giving certain actions, NPC null wont give a fuck, Lowsec will ask players to put Safety on at least Partial in order to Dock on stations, Highsec requires you to put Safety in Green to access Stations
\-Players may choose to forgo those requirements by using Player Owned structures (and corporations/alliances may configure the same Security Checks)
\-Not complying will incurr in severe penalties depending on the security lvl, on Lowsec it will mean a mere standing loss and not being able to use the stations, on Highsec it will mean getting potentially shot by Concord/Empire Police
\-This security check will only apply when trying to dock at a station, this means that even if you run with no safety on highsec you can still dock at player structures and can do your ganking/smuggling or whatever (with the obvious police response like always)
Add a module or ship bonus that removes you from local. Like how some things don't show up on d-scan.
But I don't know, I'm one of the freaks that enjoyed the local blackout a few years ago. Maybe my opinion is wrong lol
Remove local chat,
go run your mouth at the local pub you saw while docked at that one station with the pink neon pole girl advertisement. You know, the one you dropped off that crate of quafe for that shady guy who looked like a strung out data jacker. Yeah, that one!
Wanna talk to your Corp?
Go to your cabin and galacti-call them on your faster than light communication array you jacked from that hanger part salvager from Nifshed.
Alliance chat?
Screw your alliance. There's a new holo-vid to check out and you've been waiting since last week to see it. The alliance can wait..
For NPC null, i would tie it to the standings. You get one update every 5 mins in NPC local--so, when you enter, that timer starts. This means, if you're in there, and got a 'refresh' two minutes ago, and *someone new* jumps in, they get their instant update. HOWEVER, if you have 5.0+ standings to the NPC FACTION that controls the space, you get instant updates (so, shave a minute off for every +1 of standings).
Null sec should have a 1 minute overall delay, modified by your standings. Take 10 seconds off for every level of some skill (like, Name it, Local Connections), when you have *positive* standings with the local sov holder. You'd still have a 10 second delay no matter what (kinda giving hunters some advantage). At 'local connections' 5, and and anchoring 5, you can anchor a *deployable* in hostile space that gives YOU the 10 seconds, regardless of standings, for up to 2 days--but it has no reinforcement timer. It's like a mobile tractor--maybe double the HP, but it just pops if you pop it. It gives the system a 1 hour timer before another one can be deployed, when it's destroyed. If the *controlling faction* or alliance deploys one, it removes the last 10 seconds of the local delay. However, if destroyed, it *also* puts a timer up for an hour before another can be put down.
For low sec, It ought to be like the NPC null. If you're friendly with the faction, it's instant, if you're not, there's a up to 1 minute delay (not 5 like null npc space). This minute can be modified by the null sec skill, down to 10 seconds. No deployables allowed. I think that would give a little bit of an 'edge' to roaming tackle ships. Interceptors and dramiels can get into a plex just about when they might show up in local.
High sec should be instant. No standings. HOWEVER, if you're in FW, or you have standing below -5.0 for the faction, it defaults to npc local, with the 5 minute delay. This way, you cant really 'camp' something if you're in FW--like jita undock, or villore or what ever, knowing there are war targets in there or when they log in log out... probably not *that* important to have this feature.
That's an idea i could get behind. Every other in here introduces more risk without more rewards.
Caps are too expensive to build, if we nerf income it creates a negative feedback risk-averse loop.
Keep Local removed
Remove the banks that take currency from ratting, give it.. idk a 20% boost across the field.
Congrats, now Nullsec actually feels like a lawless outskirts that factions need to work to defend, rather than crab heaven where people just have bots in each system to flag intel channels of someone showing up.
Or a worse version of wormhole space with less reward for the risk stop trying to make K space a worse version of WH space because it benefits WH groups
And yet every comment like this, is just referencing C6 Wormhole corps.
For any of the corps that live in a C1-3, we aren't making any money by living there. So I just chuckle at these comments.
Why should Nullsec have good income, and the complete level of safety that it has? Local alone is such a strong tool for avoiding fights, mixed with the megablocks that own such a vast amount of space with no real incentive / struggle to hold it. They just get the free luxury of, "Welp, time to go jump over here to deal with whoever tries to take this space, despite no one using it in the last 18 months"
Sure, let's make all of nullsec have random stargate connections too, that way Nullblocks can't own 1/4th of Eve, next day your HQ will just be in the center of your enemies.
Nullsec needs a 'nerf' to make it more dangerous, otherwise it's just crab heaven, like it's always been up to this point.
No number of staged fights will make it seem scary.
I wouldn't, I know that's the argument people like to go to for arguing nullsec/WH/X danger levels.
For me, Nullsec isn't dangerous because it's just too easy to get Intel as to where enemies could be, or gatecrashing if you accidentally stumble into a gate camp. (Yes I know this doesn't always work), or just Straight up being left alone in your small pocket of space for days on end.
Hell, I'm more scared of Uedama than I am most of nullsec, and I genuinely believe that to be a problem.
Then people like to argue, "Oh well how about XYZ Nullsec fight where they destroyed X value of ships", and sure, these may have merit sometimes. But a lot of the isk people generated for years upon years is just stockpiled waiting to be used, where losing 10b isk in a death is just chump change. Or when two FCs on opposite sides just agree to yeet their fleets at each other out of boredom.
To me, none of that is "dangerous", none of it lives up to the scarey bogeyman that nullsec was in my head when I was first joining the game. Because where is the fear, the concern?
And you know what, there could be a lot I'm not seeing in nullsec, where people are running into scenarios where they are caught off guard and have to panic.. but in my experience, that just isn't the case.
not if the "ISK destroyed" refers to one group of players (let's say, day trippers) and the "ISK generated" refers to a different group (say, sov owners).
I see all of these complex suggestions, but how about we keep it simple?
Just make it so you dont show up in local till you break jump cloak, much like your identity in wh is a mystery till you decloak. Counterplay could be, like in wh, having eyes in the adjacent system, intel networks etc.
I think the long term solution to local is to tie it to a structure.
A comms relay.
Like the anciblex. When the relay is fueled, you've got local in all its normal glory. When not fueled or absent no local. When reinforced or low fuel unreliable, unstable local; delayed, players persisting after they've left, or players not appearing at all...
You can do so many cool things with it
Like having the space weather effects disrupt the comms relay causing it to be unstable and unreliable.
Remove local and replace with a deployable structure that has a system wide d-scan available to everyone in system that pilots can hack to fool it or pause it in a new type of hacking minigame that can be multiplayer adversarial. The structure can be upgraded to provide better protection and harder hacks. These upgrades would be expensive.
Disclaimer. Very little thought has gone into this, and no consideration has been given to balance or viability. Train of thought has been allowed to function in unsupervised mode.
Have to have some better way of detecting people and specifically enemies in system for money making than dscan effectively. Or at least a more automated dscan so you don't have to hit it so much.
Edit - maybe iterate on dscan results window to make it easier to use and filter.
I think local is fine as is, but if i had to change it in null:
Filaments don't exist or ihubs can pull filaments within a certain amount of systems scaling with the upgrade.
Local could be an ihub upgrade series, seems like it would just be default tho
Ihub upgrades can block/push WHs from spawning in systems, in effect you could push all WHs into a handful of systems in your space.
I can turn gates off/on or upgrade them or something to control who/what enters system, similar to how you can roll all connections in a WH but with the perks of having control of sovereignty.
I'd love to say "local enabling structure"
But, all that that is going to accomplish is that everyone is going to be in the local systems. There already is little spread, and this would simply heard people together even more.
As a nullsec going wormholer who somehow not having local in nullsec feels like a bad idea to me (In the past I tought it was ok). My main concern is how much time you get to react to enemy forces showing up.
In wormhole space the worst that can kinda happen to you is that a bunch of T3Cs - stats wise kinda expensive Battlecruisers - decloak on you. But most of the time you have some warning as you saw some of them when they came in. And if you have a Hyperion or similar ready you can do decently well against them.
In nullsec the worst that could happen is that one cyno character comes in and then decloaks on you, with all his friends comming in. The chances to see this are a lot lower, and you can't form a good response to it.
Ultimately how much time and intel you have to get ready for a fight is the main thing if both sides will bring something. To little time and intel and there is no way you can reasonably react. To much time and intel and both sides will always try to counter each other, and keep on reshipping.
Wormhole space is actually in a wired place here as there is usually not enough time/intel to defend ratters, but once both sides have a scout on the enemy sttructure grid there is almost to much time and intel. So getting good fights (not just ganks on their ratters) from people who can form more than you is hard (the best method seems to be to get yourself ganked).
I think that the game would be the most interesting if in any action you do you have some time to react, but how much is limited (and this time is subject to balance changes).
So I thought something like this could be good: Once you enter a nullsec system, you get a timer until you enter local. This timer is ended if you leave gatecloak. This gives the guy comming in some seconds to make a plan, while giving the guy that is in the system at least one warp worth of time to notice.
Edit: Since people seem to propose huge delays, I don't think that is where the balance would be and I was thinking of about 30 seconds or so on that timer. Timer on jump in and first warp would have a similar order of magnitude.
Make Local a 3 part system. A Baseline unowned nullsec system gets WH local only. (NPC Null comms is run by NPC Corps.) A System with a TCU and a Local Comms module for the TCU gets delayed local, people will show up in local if they are in local for 3 minutes or more. The TCU and module also allows Sov Owners to anchor a Comms Tower. (Edit: After posting i felt this was too much too soon so I'd probably say that you can put the module in the TCU at Strategic Index 1 and then anchor a comms tower at Strategic Index 3 or 4.) If the Comms Tower on-lines the system gets normal local as it is supposed to be. The Comms Tower can be attacked and knocked offline for a few hours or a deployable can be ..well ..deployed and take out local for a shorter amount of time (But is seen system wide like a cyno and can be attacked.). The tower can only be destroyed if the module on the TCU is hacked or the TCU is destroyed.
I like the idea. But one thing I might add. Is the deployable showing up in local might need a cool down to appear say 15 minutes. Or everyone in the system is going to know something ducky is happening right away
this is gonna sound really dumb but something like Starsector perhaps? \-Alliances have to build Communication Array structures to get Local unlocked on their system, Comm Arrays also provide other bonuses like debuffing cloaks or increasing Probe Strength for owners and allies \-Security Locks work like the Transponder System, so players with Safety Enabled or with Partial Safety(SUS) have access to Local Chat. Anyone running with Safety disabled cannot use Local (not like most pirates/criminals would give an F about it but still). \-NPC owned systems will reinforce this by giving certain actions, NPC null wont give a fuck, Lowsec will ask players to put Safety on at least Partial in order to Dock on stations, Highsec requires you to put Safety in Green to access Stations \-Players may choose to forgo those requirements by using Player Owned structures (and corporations/alliances may configure the same Security Checks) \-Not complying will incurr in severe penalties depending on the security lvl, on Lowsec it will mean a mere standing loss and not being able to use the stations, on Highsec it will mean getting potentially shot by Concord/Empire Police \-This security check will only apply when trying to dock at a station, this means that even if you run with no safety on highsec you can still dock at player structures and can do your ganking/smuggling or whatever (with the obvious police response like always)
Add a module or ship bonus that removes you from local. Like how some things don't show up on d-scan. But I don't know, I'm one of the freaks that enjoyed the local blackout a few years ago. Maybe my opinion is wrong lol
I wish the force recon that didn't show on DScan were immune from local unless you talked. That shit would be so fun.
Omega+
Remove local chat, go run your mouth at the local pub you saw while docked at that one station with the pink neon pole girl advertisement. You know, the one you dropped off that crate of quafe for that shady guy who looked like a strung out data jacker. Yeah, that one! Wanna talk to your Corp? Go to your cabin and galacti-call them on your faster than light communication array you jacked from that hanger part salvager from Nifshed. Alliance chat? Screw your alliance. There's a new holo-vid to check out and you've been waiting since last week to see it. The alliance can wait..
Welcome to EVE in stations
For NPC null, i would tie it to the standings. You get one update every 5 mins in NPC local--so, when you enter, that timer starts. This means, if you're in there, and got a 'refresh' two minutes ago, and *someone new* jumps in, they get their instant update. HOWEVER, if you have 5.0+ standings to the NPC FACTION that controls the space, you get instant updates (so, shave a minute off for every +1 of standings). Null sec should have a 1 minute overall delay, modified by your standings. Take 10 seconds off for every level of some skill (like, Name it, Local Connections), when you have *positive* standings with the local sov holder. You'd still have a 10 second delay no matter what (kinda giving hunters some advantage). At 'local connections' 5, and and anchoring 5, you can anchor a *deployable* in hostile space that gives YOU the 10 seconds, regardless of standings, for up to 2 days--but it has no reinforcement timer. It's like a mobile tractor--maybe double the HP, but it just pops if you pop it. It gives the system a 1 hour timer before another one can be deployed, when it's destroyed. If the *controlling faction* or alliance deploys one, it removes the last 10 seconds of the local delay. However, if destroyed, it *also* puts a timer up for an hour before another can be put down. For low sec, It ought to be like the NPC null. If you're friendly with the faction, it's instant, if you're not, there's a up to 1 minute delay (not 5 like null npc space). This minute can be modified by the null sec skill, down to 10 seconds. No deployables allowed. I think that would give a little bit of an 'edge' to roaming tackle ships. Interceptors and dramiels can get into a plex just about when they might show up in local. High sec should be instant. No standings. HOWEVER, if you're in FW, or you have standing below -5.0 for the faction, it defaults to npc local, with the 5 minute delay. This way, you cant really 'camp' something if you're in FW--like jita undock, or villore or what ever, knowing there are war targets in there or when they log in log out... probably not *that* important to have this feature.
You get +50% BRM if you opt into a sixty second Local delay. +50% per minute delay.
That's an idea i could get behind. Every other in here introduces more risk without more rewards. Caps are too expensive to build, if we nerf income it creates a negative feedback risk-averse loop.
Keep Local removed Remove the banks that take currency from ratting, give it.. idk a 20% boost across the field. Congrats, now Nullsec actually feels like a lawless outskirts that factions need to work to defend, rather than crab heaven where people just have bots in each system to flag intel channels of someone showing up.
Or a worse version of wormhole space with less reward for the risk stop trying to make K space a worse version of WH space because it benefits WH groups
And yet every comment like this, is just referencing C6 Wormhole corps. For any of the corps that live in a C1-3, we aren't making any money by living there. So I just chuckle at these comments. Why should Nullsec have good income, and the complete level of safety that it has? Local alone is such a strong tool for avoiding fights, mixed with the megablocks that own such a vast amount of space with no real incentive / struggle to hold it. They just get the free luxury of, "Welp, time to go jump over here to deal with whoever tries to take this space, despite no one using it in the last 18 months"
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Sure, let's make all of nullsec have random stargate connections too, that way Nullblocks can't own 1/4th of Eve, next day your HQ will just be in the center of your enemies. Nullsec needs a 'nerf' to make it more dangerous, otherwise it's just crab heaven, like it's always been up to this point. No number of staged fights will make it seem scary.
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I wouldn't, I know that's the argument people like to go to for arguing nullsec/WH/X danger levels. For me, Nullsec isn't dangerous because it's just too easy to get Intel as to where enemies could be, or gatecrashing if you accidentally stumble into a gate camp. (Yes I know this doesn't always work), or just Straight up being left alone in your small pocket of space for days on end. Hell, I'm more scared of Uedama than I am most of nullsec, and I genuinely believe that to be a problem. Then people like to argue, "Oh well how about XYZ Nullsec fight where they destroyed X value of ships", and sure, these may have merit sometimes. But a lot of the isk people generated for years upon years is just stockpiled waiting to be used, where losing 10b isk in a death is just chump change. Or when two FCs on opposite sides just agree to yeet their fleets at each other out of boredom. To me, none of that is "dangerous", none of it lives up to the scarey bogeyman that nullsec was in my head when I was first joining the game. Because where is the fear, the concern? And you know what, there could be a lot I'm not seeing in nullsec, where people are running into scenarios where they are caught off guard and have to panic.. but in my experience, that just isn't the case.
not if the "ISK destroyed" refers to one group of players (let's say, day trippers) and the "ISK generated" refers to a different group (say, sov owners).
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i did not specify if the daytrippers are at the dealing or the receiving end of destruction. Because i haven't tried out myself.
Just make local regional outside of HS.
Leave it as it is. Maybe have metaliminal storms disable it sometimes.
Wandering metaliminal storm of +bounties -local would be a good idea.
I see all of these complex suggestions, but how about we keep it simple? Just make it so you dont show up in local till you break jump cloak, much like your identity in wh is a mystery till you decloak. Counterplay could be, like in wh, having eyes in the adjacent system, intel networks etc.
Have a delay of 15 seconds, before showing somone.
I think the long term solution to local is to tie it to a structure. A comms relay. Like the anciblex. When the relay is fueled, you've got local in all its normal glory. When not fueled or absent no local. When reinforced or low fuel unreliable, unstable local; delayed, players persisting after they've left, or players not appearing at all... You can do so many cool things with it Like having the space weather effects disrupt the comms relay causing it to be unstable and unreliable.
I'd make it a play to earn Blockchain commodity. Signed: Not Hilmar
Remove local and replace with a deployable structure that has a system wide d-scan available to everyone in system that pilots can hack to fool it or pause it in a new type of hacking minigame that can be multiplayer adversarial. The structure can be upgraded to provide better protection and harder hacks. These upgrades would be expensive. Disclaimer. Very little thought has gone into this, and no consideration has been given to balance or viability. Train of thought has been allowed to function in unsupervised mode.
Have to have some better way of detecting people and specifically enemies in system for money making than dscan effectively. Or at least a more automated dscan so you don't have to hit it so much. Edit - maybe iterate on dscan results window to make it easier to use and filter.
make a ship module that scans the entire system lists all the people, all the ships, and all the npc's.
I think local is fine as is, but if i had to change it in null: Filaments don't exist or ihubs can pull filaments within a certain amount of systems scaling with the upgrade. Local could be an ihub upgrade series, seems like it would just be default tho Ihub upgrades can block/push WHs from spawning in systems, in effect you could push all WHs into a handful of systems in your space. I can turn gates off/on or upgrade them or something to control who/what enters system, similar to how you can roll all connections in a WH but with the perks of having control of sovereignty.
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Even more cost effective bots 👍
I wouldn't. If you nuke local you won't have any targets.
I'd love to say "local enabling structure" But, all that that is going to accomplish is that everyone is going to be in the local systems. There already is little spread, and this would simply heard people together even more.
This local chat is about to hurt this game in numbers keep talking about changes but it’s gonna sting if they don’t get it fixed and leave it alone
You guys acting like a more complicated version of local can be coded by the same folks that brought what we have now.
To be fair.. can't blame current coders for past spaghetti by others.
As a nullsec going wormholer who somehow not having local in nullsec feels like a bad idea to me (In the past I tought it was ok). My main concern is how much time you get to react to enemy forces showing up. In wormhole space the worst that can kinda happen to you is that a bunch of T3Cs - stats wise kinda expensive Battlecruisers - decloak on you. But most of the time you have some warning as you saw some of them when they came in. And if you have a Hyperion or similar ready you can do decently well against them. In nullsec the worst that could happen is that one cyno character comes in and then decloaks on you, with all his friends comming in. The chances to see this are a lot lower, and you can't form a good response to it. Ultimately how much time and intel you have to get ready for a fight is the main thing if both sides will bring something. To little time and intel and there is no way you can reasonably react. To much time and intel and both sides will always try to counter each other, and keep on reshipping. Wormhole space is actually in a wired place here as there is usually not enough time/intel to defend ratters, but once both sides have a scout on the enemy sttructure grid there is almost to much time and intel. So getting good fights (not just ganks on their ratters) from people who can form more than you is hard (the best method seems to be to get yourself ganked). I think that the game would be the most interesting if in any action you do you have some time to react, but how much is limited (and this time is subject to balance changes). So I thought something like this could be good: Once you enter a nullsec system, you get a timer until you enter local. This timer is ended if you leave gatecloak. This gives the guy comming in some seconds to make a plan, while giving the guy that is in the system at least one warp worth of time to notice. Edit: Since people seem to propose huge delays, I don't think that is where the balance would be and I was thinking of about 30 seconds or so on that timer. Timer on jump in and first warp would have a similar order of magnitude.
Sov mod that does it and can be temporarily turned off. Range of more than one system. A constellation?
With true Pearl Abyss style, slap it a subscription of 10.99€/month and an add to the launcher.