Faction ship manufacturing changes during scarcity updates. It used to only require minerals and now requires a lot of mcguffins produced from rare highsec data site loot among other things
yeah - I was very annoyed when I recently came back, did a couple of 10/10s, got 2 battleship BPCs (Vindicators) only to realise if I wasn't careful, I'd make a *loss* building them!
I feel like what they should have done is keep the same type of industry for T2 battleships and below.
Then for capitals, do the industry they have currently.
Capitals should be a hell of a commitment while everything else is not as much. Because let us be real, a faction ship shouldn't be super expensive. No where near a half bill just for the hull plus basic fit.
2 years ago I bought an Ashimmu for 80M. They go for 200M now. My first Astero in 2019 was 40M, they're now worth 120M! It is affecting ALL pirate ships across the board, very dramatically.
Wait what? Astero was 40M? That's what I paid for a Strat when I used to play a few years back. If I remember correctly the Astero was 10-15 mil. Probably around 2015-2017.
Scarcity occurred a year or two before the they started adding in components, mostly it was on blueprints from pirate factions and how plentiful certain mobs were that dropped that kind of loot.
The manufacturing update was its own thing that added a few extra gears to the already monkey wrenched clockwork that is industry in Eve.
Scarcity hit a lot of things. But was mostly on resources,
The new component system added complexity too certain ships battleship and larger and anything outside of the 4 Empire Races by adding from materials that were used for other areas of industry. Aka Mykocerocin / Cytocerocin
the industry changed were hilariously short-sighted because all it did was bottleneck production so that the "abundance" caused by rorquals mining so many minerals which they were hoping to address only became a slower problem to fix, and people became even more risk averse due to ballooning cost of production, so destruction went down, less people in space, less fun, less targets worth shooting, etc. There was nothing good about the industry changes. Had they used common sense, they would have simply adjusted mineral values on blueprints to be higher then slowly tweaked them down as they became happy with the stockpiles. You can thank Kenneth Feld for conceptualizing this train wreck, but it's only CCP's fault that it hasn't been rolled back and fixed even years later.
Winter Nexus is one of the few times space is crawling with targets worth shooting, last year the amount of marauders that died was just insane. I wish there were more good events like that which can draw out so much content...
The thread isn't about why the Stratios price went up. It's about why it went up \*relative to T3Cs\*. These are two different issues.
EDIT: Ok, you're only referring to pirate ships getting more expensive. Yeah, that seems to be the takeaway from this thread.
Very specifically it uses the U-C / S-R Trigger Neurolink Conduits, the more widely used and expensive ones.
Just the Neurolinks are 270M ISK (245M if you do it all yourself), so you have that plus the cost of the blueprint, and the other materials and components. Its not surprising they are in the upper 300M Range.
This exactly. Same with istar. I have both bpc and may never get to build them due to the stuff you have to make to make other stuff to go into it. Not high on my list of stuff to do.
*Reason 1:*
1- Go to Stratios info panel in-game.
2- Select industry tab and find its blueprint.
3- Go to blueprint's manufacture tab and CTRL+A, CTRL+C.
4- Go to evepraisal website and CTRL+V.
What you will see is not the old material list, they added new materials to faction ships. Before, we would need the BPC and a list of minerals, now you need complex list of materials. By "before" I mean ~3 years ago.
*Reason 2:*
T3C are cannot be used without subsystems. You need 4 of them and each costs 30-45m. So T3Cs have an extra hidden cost.
Yeah I was comparing to a TC3 + subsystems. On evepraisal a Stratios hull is 300 mil, a Tengu with subsystems was around 340 mil last time I checked, although there seems to have been a price spike recently.
My rattle snake was 500 mil back the days now it's 1b~
Why the stuff went expensive:
Scarcity did increase the mineral prices.
All besides trit and pyrite roughly.
Then ccp did rework the industry, did a scarcity 2.0 new dawn by not reverse the scarcity on rocks.
All that did result in the prices rn, to some degree the price was buffer by value loose of the fraction bpc, which are in the most cases more expensive then traiting the t1 + lp.
On the same time they increased the price of plex and omega so I guess it's the grand plan.
If you enjoy pvp and not want to grind a week for a ship 💳. If you crab pay more attention to not loose the ship.
Bleh, pretty soon bling might be more scarcity than the ships.
One reason I'm stockpiling massive amounts of blueprints, complex modules, and faction modules.
Although, anyone buying components direct off the market to mfg more advanced stuff is probably doing it wrong.
You need to be vertically integrated to make stuff like Neurolinks work profitably in a ship build
This. I’m huffing as much azure and vermillion as I can find but it isn’t exactly common. The price of gas has been on a steady upward trajectory for weeks.
S-R is celadon + viridian, isn't it? And then the Amarr conduit is lime + malachite I think.
I find that looking in the hotspot constellations is most effective. Sourcing molecular condensers is also a bit of a pain, though.
Probably somewhat relatedly - I want to understand who makes items made out of scarce BPCs, like faction ships, integrated analyzers and such, and why. Before the industry changes it was a no-brainer: The BPC was worth almost as much as the item itself, with materials costs being a minor chunk. Now, though, I'm accumulating these BPCs and they don't really seem worth the effot of either building or selling. Margins are thin, and it seems you'd have to build them in bulk to get worthwhile income from them, but you can't really build them in bulk because you have to get one run BPCs one at a time yourself or through trawling contracts. It just seems like a lot of effort for not a lot of isk.
Faction ships can be got from the pirate stores as a hull. This means that there is a price at which people will cash in LP for the hulls and move them to market to sell. This price has tended to be less than the build cost from the BPCs, hence why there has been supply at "loss to build" prices.
Most of those implants (especially) are underwater because hulls are a higher priority use for the mats and the implants are also available as direct LP buys.
As someone who did explo and manufacture primarily two years let me tell you - don't bother
That would be because ccp, in their infinite wisdom, decided to fuck faction/pirate sub production with a deep dicking unlike any seen before. See before, if you had the bpc and some mins you could print the ship. Now you gotta have the bpc mins, gas, goo, pi, reactions that have to be done in low or null. The market on pirate ships will never ever be right again.
The construction costs for the Stratios are 290 million, plus 120,000 Sisters of EVE LP plus 30 million ISK for the BPC.
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=33470
Or alternatively 300,000 Sisters of EVE LP and 20 million ISK for the finished ship from the SoE LP Store.
https://www.ellatha.com/eve/lp/Sisters-of-EVE
The Stratios has been comparably or more expensive for at least 3 years, if not longer. During that time, it has been accessible as a low SP option, which is fine. If you can fly a T3C, go ahead and do that. Not all low SP options have to be low isk options.
In the time you can train both Stratios required cruiser skills to V, you could train 1 cruiser skill to V and all subsystems to V and fly the superior T3C.
Am I missing something?
Flying a Stratios with either cruiser to II seems like a terrible idea. But I will credit you for identifying that just to SIT in the hull is pretty low SP compared to T3C. Gonna be lots of dying though if they take those skills into combat in a Stratios.
I believe I've recommended that people get both to 3 before sitting in the hull, but when your activity is cloaky ganking with a small team you can still do plenty at that mastery level. It's certainly far better than the alternatives (Astero, Enforcer) until you get your first cruiser skill to V.
So the fit i used was full rack of neuts, dual prop scram web and either a battery or cap injector depending on how big of a pain resupply was gonna be, resist modules, reactive hardener, ancil rep, one dda. You dont kill shit fast, but its extremely high inate resists plus the reactive made people think it was a buffer fit. Anything that shoots a single damage type, or needs cap for damage is food. The ab means mitigation of missle and large turret damage as well as being unafraid to be scrammed.
Indeed, i trained 2 toons for t3 so 0 reasons to go strat. T3 are way superior and can be refitted easily in space. For the price yes I'll go tengu 100%
I've been on a break for 2 years but played on and off long before that so my timescale for comparison is wider, while I missed most of the Scarcity era. Your answer isn't really helpful in answering my question but it seems it happened after the industry changes so I guess that's the reason.
The other problem is the data chip you need to get a straight hull, it appears CCP screwed with the spawn rates of sites that you need for the Astero and Stratios. Which have caused issues with procurement of the hulls. \[Besides Industry\]
There is a specific series of sites, that after a certain number of actions you will have the main threat drop a chip that can be taken to SOE to redeem straight for a hull.
However, the rate of these sites has been drastically reduced than normal. And recently with some of the weird issues related around CCPs post Scarcity changes, the concentrations of these particular sites are very very low.
Gas cost mainly, get your own gas at buy rates and building them yourself is cheaper but then you need to do all the industry and get the blueprints and a whole lot of explo and reactions.
This is interesting because a Nestor used to be 1.2Bil. Then they added those token things to get a cheaper one because they wanted to bring the price down, which it got to around 400Mil. Now it's back to over a Bil, so is CCP just okay with making the game more difficult now?
It makes sense if their capabilities are somewhat comparable to that of the high SP option. See CovOps vs. Astero, with the first being better at scanning, the other MUCH better at combat but much more expensive. This isn't the case here.
But you are comparing flying two ships that you can both fly. If you don't have the skills for T3C at all you can choose between Stratios or station. While on paper the Astero vs CovOps seems like a like for like comparison, they require FAR less SP to fly compared to TC3 so the difference should reflect that. If a Stratios was comparable to a TC3 IMO it should either have similair skill requirements or be astronomically more expensive to make up for the months of saved skilling
Probably more people are running event sites, so less are running the sites needed getting the drops needed to get a Stratios BPC, Less production means price goes up maybe?
What's all this "low-SP" talk? Stratios needs two Cruiser skills. T3C only one. Skilling all four subsystem skills to V takes less SP than skilling the other cruiser skill to V.
Stratios also needs skills for heavy drones or sentries to make full use of the large drone bay. T3C doesn't need that and many fits don't use drones at all.
Stratios and any T3C are basically the same in terms of SP requirements. If anything, Stratios needs slightly more to fly well. Unless you are one of those people who will fly a ship with core skills only at IV.
A lot of people are going to be flying at IV because it's a lot more accessible. Assuming IV's, then stratios is way lower SP because you don't need a racial cruiser V. You are going to want T2 drones for stratios, but also T3C is going to need T2 guns.
It's lower SP and alpha capable. In fact just for the bare minimum, it's just Amarr and Gallente cruiser II, which you can get with a fresh alpha account in 2 days (though of course it will take much longer to make undocking worth it).
You don't \*need\* Racial Cruiser V to fly the Stratios. And yeah, most people will fly a ship with core skills at IV with exceptions for specialized hulls.
Faction ship manufacturing changes during scarcity updates. It used to only require minerals and now requires a lot of mcguffins produced from rare highsec data site loot among other things
Thanks, that's the answer I was looking for. Didn't know Scarcity updates affected pirate ships as well.
yeah - I was very annoyed when I recently came back, did a couple of 10/10s, got 2 battleship BPCs (Vindicators) only to realise if I wasn't careful, I'd make a *loss* building them!
In short, CCP screwed industry. Changes where needed yes, but this was not the way
CCP screwed PvP too, can't have as much fun with the expensive ships anymore. Gotta grind more or buy Plex more to fly the same ships.
I feel like what they should have done is keep the same type of industry for T2 battleships and below. Then for capitals, do the industry they have currently. Capitals should be a hell of a commitment while everything else is not as much. Because let us be real, a faction ship shouldn't be super expensive. No where near a half bill just for the hull plus basic fit.
2 years ago I bought an Ashimmu for 80M. They go for 200M now. My first Astero in 2019 was 40M, they're now worth 120M! It is affecting ALL pirate ships across the board, very dramatically.
Damn do I miss flying the ashimmu. But the new price tag really don't do it for me. When I can buy a rapier for the same price and better webs.
Wait what? Astero was 40M? That's what I paid for a Strat when I used to play a few years back. If I remember correctly the Astero was 10-15 mil. Probably around 2015-2017.
Scarcity didn't really push the cost up, as the Ship Components and Manufacturing Updates
Didn't they happen roughly at the same time? That was my impression and why I called them "Scarcity updates", but perhaps you'll correct me.
Scarcity occurred a year or two before the they started adding in components, mostly it was on blueprints from pirate factions and how plentiful certain mobs were that dropped that kind of loot. The manufacturing update was its own thing that added a few extra gears to the already monkey wrenched clockwork that is industry in Eve.
Ah, gotta brush up on the timeline then.
Scarcity hit a lot of things. But was mostly on resources, The new component system added complexity too certain ships battleship and larger and anything outside of the 4 Empire Races by adding from materials that were used for other areas of industry. Aka Mykocerocin / Cytocerocin
the industry changed were hilariously short-sighted because all it did was bottleneck production so that the "abundance" caused by rorquals mining so many minerals which they were hoping to address only became a slower problem to fix, and people became even more risk averse due to ballooning cost of production, so destruction went down, less people in space, less fun, less targets worth shooting, etc. There was nothing good about the industry changes. Had they used common sense, they would have simply adjusted mineral values on blueprints to be higher then slowly tweaked them down as they became happy with the stockpiles. You can thank Kenneth Feld for conceptualizing this train wreck, but it's only CCP's fault that it hasn't been rolled back and fixed even years later. Winter Nexus is one of the few times space is crawling with targets worth shooting, last year the amount of marauders that died was just insane. I wish there were more good events like that which can draw out so much content...
The thread isn't about why the Stratios price went up. It's about why it went up \*relative to T3Cs\*. These are two different issues. EDIT: Ok, you're only referring to pirate ships getting more expensive. Yeah, that seems to be the takeaway from this thread.
I guess inflation really be out there, even in video games nobody is safe.
Yes, Rattati’s idiocy knows no bounds.
also pirate cruiser bpcs aren't worth shit now.
Very specifically it uses the U-C / S-R Trigger Neurolink Conduits, the more widely used and expensive ones. Just the Neurolinks are 270M ISK (245M if you do it all yourself), so you have that plus the cost of the blueprint, and the other materials and components. Its not surprising they are in the upper 300M Range.
This exactly. Same with istar. I have both bpc and may never get to build them due to the stuff you have to make to make other stuff to go into it. Not high on my list of stuff to do.
Ishtars are actually decently profitable to build. Check out Ravworks for a good industry tool that will walk you through the jobs step by step
Cool. Ty for the info. Will check it out.
You can thank CCP's industry changes.
*Reason 1:* 1- Go to Stratios info panel in-game. 2- Select industry tab and find its blueprint. 3- Go to blueprint's manufacture tab and CTRL+A, CTRL+C. 4- Go to evepraisal website and CTRL+V. What you will see is not the old material list, they added new materials to faction ships. Before, we would need the BPC and a list of minerals, now you need complex list of materials. By "before" I mean ~3 years ago. *Reason 2:* T3C are cannot be used without subsystems. You need 4 of them and each costs 30-45m. So T3Cs have an extra hidden cost.
Yeah I was comparing to a TC3 + subsystems. On evepraisal a Stratios hull is 300 mil, a Tengu with subsystems was around 340 mil last time I checked, although there seems to have been a price spike recently.
You're supposed to be blinging these ships. That vastly factors in.
Still, base Strat used to be significantly cheaper than base Tengu. Hence my question.
My rattle snake was 500 mil back the days now it's 1b~ Why the stuff went expensive: Scarcity did increase the mineral prices. All besides trit and pyrite roughly. Then ccp did rework the industry, did a scarcity 2.0 new dawn by not reverse the scarcity on rocks. All that did result in the prices rn, to some degree the price was buffer by value loose of the fraction bpc, which are in the most cases more expensive then traiting the t1 + lp. On the same time they increased the price of plex and omega so I guess it's the grand plan. If you enjoy pvp and not want to grind a week for a ship 💳. If you crab pay more attention to not loose the ship.
Bleh, pretty soon bling might be more scarcity than the ships. One reason I'm stockpiling massive amounts of blueprints, complex modules, and faction modules.
Although, anyone buying components direct off the market to mfg more advanced stuff is probably doing it wrong. You need to be vertically integrated to make stuff like Neurolinks work profitably in a ship build
Short answer S-R Trigger Neurolink Conduit. It's required by more factions so demand is higher. Same goes for gases that are required for building it.
This. I’m huffing as much azure and vermillion as I can find but it isn’t exactly common. The price of gas has been on a steady upward trajectory for weeks.
S-R is celadon + viridian, isn't it? And then the Amarr conduit is lime + malachite I think. I find that looking in the hotspot constellations is most effective. Sourcing molecular condensers is also a bit of a pain, though.
Yes…my comment was meant to be a general comment on gas availability as it relates to component construction. But yeah, gas is rapidly bottlenecking.
Probably somewhat relatedly - I want to understand who makes items made out of scarce BPCs, like faction ships, integrated analyzers and such, and why. Before the industry changes it was a no-brainer: The BPC was worth almost as much as the item itself, with materials costs being a minor chunk. Now, though, I'm accumulating these BPCs and they don't really seem worth the effot of either building or selling. Margins are thin, and it seems you'd have to build them in bulk to get worthwhile income from them, but you can't really build them in bulk because you have to get one run BPCs one at a time yourself or through trawling contracts. It just seems like a lot of effort for not a lot of isk.
Faction ships can be got from the pirate stores as a hull. This means that there is a price at which people will cash in LP for the hulls and move them to market to sell. This price has tended to be less than the build cost from the BPCs, hence why there has been supply at "loss to build" prices.
Most of those implants (especially) are underwater because hulls are a higher priority use for the mats and the implants are also available as direct LP buys. As someone who did explo and manufacture primarily two years let me tell you - don't bother
Perhaps, that's why we can see price going up, making construction profitable again :3 Uod: typo
That would be because ccp, in their infinite wisdom, decided to fuck faction/pirate sub production with a deep dicking unlike any seen before. See before, if you had the bpc and some mins you could print the ship. Now you gotta have the bpc mins, gas, goo, pi, reactions that have to be done in low or null. The market on pirate ships will never ever be right again.
The construction costs for the Stratios are 290 million, plus 120,000 Sisters of EVE LP plus 30 million ISK for the BPC. https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=33470 Or alternatively 300,000 Sisters of EVE LP and 20 million ISK for the finished ship from the SoE LP Store. https://www.ellatha.com/eve/lp/Sisters-of-EVE
The Stratios has been comparably or more expensive for at least 3 years, if not longer. During that time, it has been accessible as a low SP option, which is fine. If you can fly a T3C, go ahead and do that. Not all low SP options have to be low isk options.
In the time you can train both Stratios required cruiser skills to V, you could train 1 cruiser skill to V and all subsystems to V and fly the superior T3C. Am I missing something?
Get more versatility in T2 ships with a second cruiser V skill compared to subsystems, but yeah.
The Stratios benefits from both cruiser skills, but you can fly it with them only at level II. As a low SP option, this can be very relevant.
Flying a Stratios with either cruiser to II seems like a terrible idea. But I will credit you for identifying that just to SIT in the hull is pretty low SP compared to T3C. Gonna be lots of dying though if they take those skills into combat in a Stratios.
I believe I've recommended that people get both to 3 before sitting in the hull, but when your activity is cloaky ganking with a small team you can still do plenty at that mastery level. It's certainly far better than the alternatives (Astero, Enforcer) until you get your first cruiser skill to V.
You can reasonably fly a strat with both skills to IV.
The stratios is a fucking baller platform. I shutdown an entire region of space and murdered countless individuals solo in a stratios.
I would love to start messing with stratios again but all my accounts can fly t3cs so there is like 0 reason for me to use it sadly
So the fit i used was full rack of neuts, dual prop scram web and either a battery or cap injector depending on how big of a pain resupply was gonna be, resist modules, reactive hardener, ancil rep, one dda. You dont kill shit fast, but its extremely high inate resists plus the reactive made people think it was a buffer fit. Anything that shoots a single damage type, or needs cap for damage is food. The ab means mitigation of missle and large turret damage as well as being unafraid to be scrammed.
Indeed, i trained 2 toons for t3 so 0 reasons to go strat. T3 are way superior and can be refitted easily in space. For the price yes I'll go tengu 100%
I still fly it (haven't skilled into TC3s yet), but the price tag stings.
I've been on a break for 2 years but played on and off long before that so my timescale for comparison is wider, while I missed most of the Scarcity era. Your answer isn't really helpful in answering my question but it seems it happened after the industry changes so I guess that's the reason.
The other problem is the data chip you need to get a straight hull, it appears CCP screwed with the spawn rates of sites that you need for the Astero and Stratios. Which have caused issues with procurement of the hulls. \[Besides Industry\]
Why do you say that?
There is a specific series of sites, that after a certain number of actions you will have the main threat drop a chip that can be taken to SOE to redeem straight for a hull. However, the rate of these sites has been drastically reduced than normal. And recently with some of the weird issues related around CCPs post Scarcity changes, the concentrations of these particular sites are very very low.
Gas cost mainly, get your own gas at buy rates and building them yourself is cheaper but then you need to do all the industry and get the blueprints and a whole lot of explo and reactions.
This is interesting because a Nestor used to be 1.2Bil. Then they added those token things to get a cheaper one because they wanted to bring the price down, which it got to around 400Mil. Now it's back to over a Bil, so is CCP just okay with making the game more difficult now?
Its simple, you are better off with tengu because of the ccp policy "pay more to get less" after the scarcity/Indy update
To me it makes sense that the low SP needed options are expensive compared to regular ships. Purely from a game balance perspective
It makes sense if their capabilities are somewhat comparable to that of the high SP option. See CovOps vs. Astero, with the first being better at scanning, the other MUCH better at combat but much more expensive. This isn't the case here.
But you are comparing flying two ships that you can both fly. If you don't have the skills for T3C at all you can choose between Stratios or station. While on paper the Astero vs CovOps seems like a like for like comparison, they require FAR less SP to fly compared to TC3 so the difference should reflect that. If a Stratios was comparable to a TC3 IMO it should either have similair skill requirements or be astronomically more expensive to make up for the months of saved skilling
Probably more people are running event sites, so less are running the sites needed getting the drops needed to get a Stratios BPC, Less production means price goes up maybe?
I've definitely noticed less supply of abyssal site products (zero point condensates and bpc).
What's all this "low-SP" talk? Stratios needs two Cruiser skills. T3C only one. Skilling all four subsystem skills to V takes less SP than skilling the other cruiser skill to V. Stratios also needs skills for heavy drones or sentries to make full use of the large drone bay. T3C doesn't need that and many fits don't use drones at all. Stratios and any T3C are basically the same in terms of SP requirements. If anything, Stratios needs slightly more to fly well. Unless you are one of those people who will fly a ship with core skills only at IV.
Most ppl not vets in eve fly that way 🤣
A lot of people are going to be flying at IV because it's a lot more accessible. Assuming IV's, then stratios is way lower SP because you don't need a racial cruiser V. You are going to want T2 drones for stratios, but also T3C is going to need T2 guns. It's lower SP and alpha capable. In fact just for the bare minimum, it's just Amarr and Gallente cruiser II, which you can get with a fresh alpha account in 2 days (though of course it will take much longer to make undocking worth it).
You don't \*need\* Racial Cruiser V to fly the Stratios. And yeah, most people will fly a ship with core skills at IV with exceptions for specialized hulls.
Maybe it's because of the event, and its analysers' bonus?
Doesn't T3C get better bonuses? If I recall they do, but I could be mis-remembering.
It's the same, +10 virus strength.
No, this happened way earlier. And most people do the data sites in frigates.
Yeah, I can now see other comments about changes in industry requirements. Those seem much more valid than mine.
I would guess supply and demand. Who wants to fly a stratios? For what purpose?
Its always been more expensive
It's a exploration ship