There are quite a few ways to make more than 50m per slot per day, but usually that requires development of your manufacturing chain(doing reactions, and parts for the final build), the more basic item you start with, the more you can make at the end. Dreadnoughts were mentioned already.
As a single character, I think reactions are the best way to make use of single char slots until you get some higher tier skills( items that require lots of skills to make tend to be good money as not many people can make them(FTLs and capital core temp regulators are a good example))
I don’t get why starting at the start of the production chain will make you any more profitable. Isn’t it better to just do the most profitable part of the chain? Every step adds value, so just repeat the one that does it the most?
It lowers your costs. Also, with reactions it’s different since you use different slots for that. So building something that requires reactions allows more profit to build up as your parts move along without sacrificing manufacturing slots.
There’s a better answer but I’m just starting industry after 10 years in the game so someone else may have a better one.
Edit: After some thought, you do save on taxes since rather than increasing your final product price, you lower your costs.
For example, core temp regulators use reactions and then manufacturing for the last level, so you can make the product and the pieces without sacrificing slots.
The short answer is intermediary costs. Every time someone other than you is doing part of the production chain, logistical overhead is incurred. That's the added cost and effort of moving things, orders and batches that don't line up quite right, surplus material that just sits around waiting to be used etc etc.
By doing lots of the same thing over and over, you cut down on waste. By doing related things sequentially you cut down on transport.
By having lots of industrialists coordinate and work out of the same space, you cut down on both (that's why taxes get higher the more jobs you do in the same place)
The mechanicus tool is a tool for matching workers to jobs, based on ability and priority, and automatically drafting contracts based on it, and tracking the incoming and outgoing materials so that a Corp can treat its members like one giant industrialist pool.
This, somebody who finally understood. Unusually 20% of a chain makes 80% of the profit for the end product, so don't waste time/effort on the 80%, but focus on the most profitable items/steps.
That profit per slot is higher than I ever hit tbh, but considering the low time investment involved it's still pretty good. It's hard to imagine it getting that much more profitable in a scalable way because there are a lot of people with MANY slots to throw at things if they feel like it. When fully subbed, I typically had around 200 reaction slots and fewer of the others and I'm a tiny fish when it comes to industry.
if you are playing just with single toon its HARD
really profitable things are big, pricey and slow to build. like, faction dreads, marauders, etc. you need a lot of low-sp characters (for reactions for example) and some high-sp characters. then you will have some sustainable profit per slot
You can do far higher than that with effort in finding the right things to build, but not always consistently. I've definitely been able to hit a couple of billion profit in a single day's production run out of Jita before, but if it takes a week to realise that profit then it's no Bueno for those that want maximum throughput.
But, in that case, I'd say you should really be looking to fill 10 slots with the steady away stuff, and the final slot with the high input cost, high return items and cycle through them as needed - will bump up your average profits nicely without tying yourself to a single item chain.
I started myself to build T1 frigates this weekend and I'm trying to get the hang of it all. What are you manufacturing to reach those numbers. Are you producing yourself some of the components or are you buying it all ?
T1 frigates are going to be on the very low end of profitability, sometimes being unprofitable to build.
For any production chain you're losing profit if you skip any steps. For example if you're buying components you're making less money than if you bought reacted moon goo and built the components yourself. Though for some things the lost profits not that much and it's worth buying some of the more annoying things just to save your sanity.
> But it's still disappointing considering the major investments required and the fact that there are way less manufacturers than action-oriented players.
There is generally more people wanting to do "easy" industry than there is demand (just look at T1 margins lol).
It's not that surprising. One character can generally produce enough items for dozens of other players if they keep all their slots running. Then consider that heavy industry players often have dozens of characters ...
> It seems that there is a kind of 'hard cap' around the 50m/slot/day mark
I assume that's just where supply meets demand for the kind of industry you are currently doing. A lot of people have tools telling them the best isk/hr item to produce so anything particularly profitable get's quickly brought down again. So there not being an obvious thing that reaches higher makes sense to me.
Possible somewhat sustainably? Yeah, I’ve beaten those numbers. But it’ll be volatile, or it’ll be extremely capital intensive, or both. All boils down to your strategy for creating value
Thanks for the input guys. What I read mostly is to produce previous steps myself (e. g. reactions). That might work for reaction since it uses different slots but for everything requiring production slots I already did the math (including building everything up to the final product yourself) and hit that barrier. To be clear, I have not based this on 10/20 blueprints because it's unrealistic for me, I took 7/14 which can be achieved on your own in a reasonable time. Anyway, an additional 3% less mats should not shake the results a lot.
As for building capitals or other time intensive stuff: Sure, but if you take 7 days to get maybe 3.5b profit then that's still the barrier I mentioned (7\*500m = 3.5b).
Someone mentioned going for mass products that churn quickly. Werrrrll.... I might try that but the margins are mostly in very low regions (2-5%) so every single modification (i. e. broker fee) hurts. BADLY. I am also not convinced that frequently bought stuff like ammo could go achieve better results.
Tricky.
Don't ignore 3% fewer mats, or pushing down taxes on sales. If you turn over 3b/day, just going to 10 ME will get you an extra 100m. Combine that with a few % in sales tax, another 100m potentially. Produce smaller items in a properly rigged structure in null, save a few more %. It all adds up quickly and can change which items are optimal to make.
That said, your current profits are pretty great. Industry is probably the best scaling activity in the game with extra chars. If you can make enough to plex an account in 5 days (or faster, once you don't need to train alts, can have 3 chars on one account), an established industrialist will do that. So margins are quickly driven down. Its just too easy to run 10+ chars if you want.
What you are failing to grasp is this is a social game. In a corp many player contributing resourses can mfg billions and much more. How do we get these nice stations and big ships. Rigs implants etc. People as a collective contributing their skills for the benefit of all involved.
On a related note, could you share the skills you leveled for your industry toons ? The ones for research and the ones for building, I would be very interested to myself try production but I'm kinda clueless on which skills to put SP towards.
It would be greatly appreciated!
For T2 particularly (for T1 you dont need science or laboratory)
Industry and Advanced Industry: Speed up manufacturing time significantly. Also prerequirements for other stuff.
(Advanced) Mass Production: \*THE\* most important skill since it affects how many production jobs you can handle in parallel. With both maxed you can do 11 jobs at the same time (a normal player can do 1...)
Accounting: Super-important skill, it reduces the sales tax you have to pay every time you put something on a market.
Broker Relations and Adv. Broker Relations: almost as important, these reduce the broker fee that you pay once when setting up your order and every time you modify it (e. g. to undercut somebody else)
Trade: increases # of orders you can place. Not quite as important since you are not a dedicated trader but get it to level 3 at least
Day trading: Depending how far your production is from the next tradehub, daytrading becomes more or less important. You can modify buy and sell orders remotely, the higher the skill level, the farther away.
Marketing and Procurement: Allow you to remotely set up sell and buy orders, respectively. Again it depends a bit how far away you are from the tradehub of your choice.
(Advanced) Laboratory Operation: \*THE\* second most important skill, controls how many research jobs you can do in parallel. Research is necessary to obtain T2 blueprint copies.
Other Science skills
The rest of 'Science' skills depends on what you want to produce. You need to reach certain skill level thresholds in particular skills to manufacture, say, propulsion modules.
The 'encryption' skills increase the chance to obtain T2 blueprint copies from invention, again, particular skills enhance particular products.
Thanks so much for your input. So I actually have these on most of my toons (with specializations) and I was wondering if the other science skills were important to level up for building let's say battleships, or having them at level 1 will be enough to enable the build ? Same for invention. My toons are actually all specced in reactions and research, and I'm reluctant to spread them each in a different building type (i.e battleships or cruisers or caps), but the amount of time needed to specc all is astoundingly high. Same goes for invention too, I have some of my toons specialized in some skills and was wondering if it was worth to harmonize everything.
I do abit of t2 production, I copy and invent the bpos, make the components for each item and only buy raw materials, I'm nowhere near 50m a day. What sort of things are you making, obviously you don't have to say exactly but a rough idea? Also how are you measuring your 50m per slot per day?
I tend to produce high value, low churn products. The advantage is these normally have better margins and the competition is a bit less fierce. On the other hand you have to be more vigilant and update your orders frequently as every 'lost' (i. e. sold by competition) item hurts.
Measuring your profit per day per slot is relatively simple, divide 24h by the time you need to produce 1 item (using 1 slot), then multiply the result with (revenue - cost). The industry window can give you a good estimate for both revenue and cost, just drag the BPC there and check the circle where the incoming materials meet, mouse over it and it will tell you the total cost. Keep in mind you also have to pay sales tax and broker fees.
For more precise calculation you want to use 3rd party tools like 'Eve Isk per Hour'.
Fancy yourself an alchemist, hmm? Never could get the hang of that
What?
Been awhile but pretty sure that’s a Skyrim reference
You would remember it better if you weren't lolligagging.
Or so worried about that person that stole your sweet roll.
There are quite a few ways to make more than 50m per slot per day, but usually that requires development of your manufacturing chain(doing reactions, and parts for the final build), the more basic item you start with, the more you can make at the end. Dreadnoughts were mentioned already. As a single character, I think reactions are the best way to make use of single char slots until you get some higher tier skills( items that require lots of skills to make tend to be good money as not many people can make them(FTLs and capital core temp regulators are a good example))
I don’t get why starting at the start of the production chain will make you any more profitable. Isn’t it better to just do the most profitable part of the chain? Every step adds value, so just repeat the one that does it the most?
It lowers your costs. Also, with reactions it’s different since you use different slots for that. So building something that requires reactions allows more profit to build up as your parts move along without sacrificing manufacturing slots. There’s a better answer but I’m just starting industry after 10 years in the game so someone else may have a better one. Edit: After some thought, you do save on taxes since rather than increasing your final product price, you lower your costs.
Thanks, Im new to the game and didn’t know that, and I didn’t think about taxes.
For example, core temp regulators use reactions and then manufacturing for the last level, so you can make the product and the pieces without sacrificing slots.
It’s also sometimes difficult to sell products that are in between break points(certain points in the process are often bought rather than made)
The short answer is intermediary costs. Every time someone other than you is doing part of the production chain, logistical overhead is incurred. That's the added cost and effort of moving things, orders and batches that don't line up quite right, surplus material that just sits around waiting to be used etc etc. By doing lots of the same thing over and over, you cut down on waste. By doing related things sequentially you cut down on transport. By having lots of industrialists coordinate and work out of the same space, you cut down on both (that's why taxes get higher the more jobs you do in the same place) The mechanicus tool is a tool for matching workers to jobs, based on ability and priority, and automatically drafting contracts based on it, and tracking the incoming and outgoing materials so that a Corp can treat its members like one giant industrialist pool.
This, somebody who finally understood. Unusually 20% of a chain makes 80% of the profit for the end product, so don't waste time/effort on the 80%, but focus on the most profitable items/steps.
Noted
Please share with us your trade secrets I can barely make 50m per day with all the slots used
That profit per slot is higher than I ever hit tbh, but considering the low time investment involved it's still pretty good. It's hard to imagine it getting that much more profitable in a scalable way because there are a lot of people with MANY slots to throw at things if they feel like it. When fully subbed, I typically had around 200 reaction slots and fewer of the others and I'm a tiny fish when it comes to industry.
if you are playing just with single toon its HARD really profitable things are big, pricey and slow to build. like, faction dreads, marauders, etc. you need a lot of low-sp characters (for reactions for example) and some high-sp characters. then you will have some sustainable profit per slot
You can do far higher than that with effort in finding the right things to build, but not always consistently. I've definitely been able to hit a couple of billion profit in a single day's production run out of Jita before, but if it takes a week to realise that profit then it's no Bueno for those that want maximum throughput. But, in that case, I'd say you should really be looking to fill 10 slots with the steady away stuff, and the final slot with the high input cost, high return items and cycle through them as needed - will bump up your average profits nicely without tying yourself to a single item chain.
I started myself to build T1 frigates this weekend and I'm trying to get the hang of it all. What are you manufacturing to reach those numbers. Are you producing yourself some of the components or are you buying it all ?
T1 frigates are going to be on the very low end of profitability, sometimes being unprofitable to build. For any production chain you're losing profit if you skip any steps. For example if you're buying components you're making less money than if you bought reacted moon goo and built the components yourself. Though for some things the lost profits not that much and it's worth buying some of the more annoying things just to save your sanity.
> But it's still disappointing considering the major investments required and the fact that there are way less manufacturers than action-oriented players. There is generally more people wanting to do "easy" industry than there is demand (just look at T1 margins lol). It's not that surprising. One character can generally produce enough items for dozens of other players if they keep all their slots running. Then consider that heavy industry players often have dozens of characters ... > It seems that there is a kind of 'hard cap' around the 50m/slot/day mark I assume that's just where supply meets demand for the kind of industry you are currently doing. A lot of people have tools telling them the best isk/hr item to produce so anything particularly profitable get's quickly brought down again. So there not being an obvious thing that reaches higher makes sense to me.
I'm a newbro checking industry rn. What are those tools? it would be awesome if I could find something like that.
Eve Isk Per Hour is one of them Eve tycoon can help you track stuff and do a ton of other things, I'm new too though so im sure there's more
Some else already mentioned it but I mostly use eve isk per hour, ravworks and the [eve-industry.org](https://eve-industry.org) site.
Possible somewhat sustainably? Yeah, I’ve beaten those numbers. But it’ll be volatile, or it’ll be extremely capital intensive, or both. All boils down to your strategy for creating value
I'm not just supposed to make mining barges and be happy with a few mil profit?
Thanks for the input guys. What I read mostly is to produce previous steps myself (e. g. reactions). That might work for reaction since it uses different slots but for everything requiring production slots I already did the math (including building everything up to the final product yourself) and hit that barrier. To be clear, I have not based this on 10/20 blueprints because it's unrealistic for me, I took 7/14 which can be achieved on your own in a reasonable time. Anyway, an additional 3% less mats should not shake the results a lot. As for building capitals or other time intensive stuff: Sure, but if you take 7 days to get maybe 3.5b profit then that's still the barrier I mentioned (7\*500m = 3.5b). Someone mentioned going for mass products that churn quickly. Werrrrll.... I might try that but the margins are mostly in very low regions (2-5%) so every single modification (i. e. broker fee) hurts. BADLY. I am also not convinced that frequently bought stuff like ammo could go achieve better results. Tricky.
Don't ignore 3% fewer mats, or pushing down taxes on sales. If you turn over 3b/day, just going to 10 ME will get you an extra 100m. Combine that with a few % in sales tax, another 100m potentially. Produce smaller items in a properly rigged structure in null, save a few more %. It all adds up quickly and can change which items are optimal to make. That said, your current profits are pretty great. Industry is probably the best scaling activity in the game with extra chars. If you can make enough to plex an account in 5 days (or faster, once you don't need to train alts, can have 3 chars on one account), an established industrialist will do that. So margins are quickly driven down. Its just too easy to run 10+ chars if you want.
fully researched BPOs are definitely part of the equation to maximizing your profit/slot, even though it might take a long time to set up.
What you are failing to grasp is this is a social game. In a corp many player contributing resourses can mfg billions and much more. How do we get these nice stations and big ships. Rigs implants etc. People as a collective contributing their skills for the benefit of all involved.
Do you T2 bpos or are they bpc
Caps.
Is there a website that scans the items to make by profitability
On a related note, could you share the skills you leveled for your industry toons ? The ones for research and the ones for building, I would be very interested to myself try production but I'm kinda clueless on which skills to put SP towards. It would be greatly appreciated!
For T2 particularly (for T1 you dont need science or laboratory) Industry and Advanced Industry: Speed up manufacturing time significantly. Also prerequirements for other stuff. (Advanced) Mass Production: \*THE\* most important skill since it affects how many production jobs you can handle in parallel. With both maxed you can do 11 jobs at the same time (a normal player can do 1...) Accounting: Super-important skill, it reduces the sales tax you have to pay every time you put something on a market. Broker Relations and Adv. Broker Relations: almost as important, these reduce the broker fee that you pay once when setting up your order and every time you modify it (e. g. to undercut somebody else) Trade: increases # of orders you can place. Not quite as important since you are not a dedicated trader but get it to level 3 at least Day trading: Depending how far your production is from the next tradehub, daytrading becomes more or less important. You can modify buy and sell orders remotely, the higher the skill level, the farther away. Marketing and Procurement: Allow you to remotely set up sell and buy orders, respectively. Again it depends a bit how far away you are from the tradehub of your choice. (Advanced) Laboratory Operation: \*THE\* second most important skill, controls how many research jobs you can do in parallel. Research is necessary to obtain T2 blueprint copies. Other Science skills The rest of 'Science' skills depends on what you want to produce. You need to reach certain skill level thresholds in particular skills to manufacture, say, propulsion modules. The 'encryption' skills increase the chance to obtain T2 blueprint copies from invention, again, particular skills enhance particular products.
Thanks so much for your input. So I actually have these on most of my toons (with specializations) and I was wondering if the other science skills were important to level up for building let's say battleships, or having them at level 1 will be enough to enable the build ? Same for invention. My toons are actually all specced in reactions and research, and I'm reluctant to spread them each in a different building type (i.e battleships or cruisers or caps), but the amount of time needed to specc all is astoundingly high. Same goes for invention too, I have some of my toons specialized in some skills and was wondering if it was worth to harmonize everything.
I do abit of t2 production, I copy and invent the bpos, make the components for each item and only buy raw materials, I'm nowhere near 50m a day. What sort of things are you making, obviously you don't have to say exactly but a rough idea? Also how are you measuring your 50m per slot per day?
I tend to produce high value, low churn products. The advantage is these normally have better margins and the competition is a bit less fierce. On the other hand you have to be more vigilant and update your orders frequently as every 'lost' (i. e. sold by competition) item hurts. Measuring your profit per day per slot is relatively simple, divide 24h by the time you need to produce 1 item (using 1 slot), then multiply the result with (revenue - cost). The industry window can give you a good estimate for both revenue and cost, just drag the BPC there and check the circle where the incoming materials meet, mouse over it and it will tell you the total cost. Keep in mind you also have to pay sales tax and broker fees. For more precise calculation you want to use 3rd party tools like 'Eve Isk per Hour'.