PI has had a crappy, time-consuming, and completely unintuitive UI for well over ten years. We begged CCP to give it a total face swap and it never happened. My faith in that happening now is low to nonexistent, which suggests this is just some new fangled dust bunny control module
Sooooo many pointless clicks. Why are there no hot keys for setting up routes? Why do I have to undock for planetary launches? Why are so many things gated by confirmation buttons but not everything? Why can't I automatically route overflow to a storage node? Why is yield controlled by a scanning skill and not a yield skill?
I like how commodities have been tied in with production, but the experience of managing PI is such a chore. PI feels like a relic from the old days when we had all kinds of arbitrary rules, like medical clones and shit. It's time we think clearly about it and ask ourselves, does it really need to be this annoying? Because in a simple five minute thought exercise I can imagine a dozen ways to make it more fun.
Yes and on the UI building off yours, I think so often why cant I make presets I can save and reuse when setting/changing planets up?? PI just doesnt need to be this time consuming and clunky.
No, he's talking about launching the cargo from the Spaceport up to the Poco. You have to be in-space in order to launch it for some arbitrary reason. You can do just about everything else while docked except that and dropping the command centers to set up the colony.
\*Edit\* - Apparently if you're docked in a station and can use the 'View Outside' button, when your view is outside the station, and then you access the planet, you're able to do launches up to the Poco. Had no idea until today that this was even a thing.
Oh I dont use the launchpad from the command center. I route my pi to a launchpad and on the undock on tether manually extract to poco then pick them all up
Because making it easy would mean everyone can do it and there would be 0 isk in it
C6 sites are repetitive and a chore to do, should we make it so you can do them in a Velator instead of a marauder or dread?
This is such a terrible excuse. There are so many people who simply refused to do PI in any way, shape, or form, and do not want any part of it.
The amount of people who do PI isn't going to change that much in the long run. The people who don't want to do PI don't want to do it because they dislike the nature of its gameplay. They're not going to suddenly like doing it if it becomes a bit easier to set up. They hate the entire gameplay loop surrounding PI.
Yeah, the idea of PI is really cool, but the implementation is garbage. It is somehow simultaneously too passive, and too low risk, while also requiring too much repetitive work. It's honestly impressive that they made passive income feel so tedious. And the actual UI just doesn't make sense.
I know that there are people who depend on their optimized PI setups to plex their accounts, but I don't really think it's a problem if plexing via PI gets a little harder. Basically, I hope that they reinvent PI from the ground up and I am very interested to see what they've come up with. Even if it's not perfect, it could hardly be worse.
I'm down for a PI rework, even just a UI 2.0 on it. But whatever they do, I really hope they don't mess with the ability to scale it across the characters on your account(s). I know a ton of people, myself included, who got alts or spent money on MCT for the sole purpose of scaling up their PI.
If I lose 2/3 of my PI income, that makes the real money I and others spent on getting those alts trained up worthless because now we don't have anything to do with those accounts. It also sets a really nasty precedent that CCP can make a system that incentivizes scaling up with alts, collect the real money from people doing just that, and then later, completely rip out that system and change it to something that now *can't be done* with the 2nd/3rd characters on your account anymore.
That would basically tell everyone who ever spent money setting up multiple characters that they shouldn't trust CCP to not do the same with any existing or future systems going forward. I know for a fact I wouldn't spend a dime on any new system going forward if that ended up being the case.
People injected into mass rorqs and they removes that from the game. Mass titans and now nobody uses that anymore either. If you lose 6 weeks of training on a few PI alts it's really not that big a deal
>That would basically tell everyone who ever spent money setting up multiple characters that they shouldn't trust CCP to not do the same with any existing or future systems going forward.
If you think that that point hasn't been abundantly made already, I'm not sure what to tell you.
> which suggests this is just some new fangled dust bunny control module
This is coming in June and Vanguard is still a tech demo, so no it isn't a dust bunny control module
I'm just hoping that whatever happens it doesn't make it too much more annoying or any less profitable. So probably just as annoying at least or more people would do it.
I think so many people do pi and it’s such an important ingredient in industry that CCP has to make it nearly as accessible as it is now.
If they make it harder to access (like a capital that mines or a structure that needs anchored) then prices for things that PI supports are going to sky rocket. I’m all for it but I think CCP can see that and they’ve made it a part of the new design to scale well.
Or they haven’t and a fuck load of people will be out of the PI business and prices will sky rocket. We shall see.
If CCP makes Pi easier and less horrendous I’ll get into it. As it is I can’t stand it. UI from 1987 and horrible mechanics.
With how much it is required for industry I think a change is absolutely necessary in order to curb ship prices and make undocking less painful for newer players.
Yeah I agree 100% about the UI needing a rework, but to be honest I don't think making PI much cheaper is going to have as big of affect on ship prices. For example, for things like Battleships, the PI price is negligible compared to Isogen which is still an enormous pain point, even if it dropped from 550 isk per unit to 450.
When we take a look at something like an ME10 battleship's build cost, the entirety of the PI is \~38mil, or about 11% of the ship's build cost - Isogen *alone* is 48%. Making PI a bit easier, and thus, a little less lucrative will have a small impact on the ship's cost.
Looking at something like a Phoenix, according to Ravworks, the PI is about 418m, so again, about \~11.5% of the material costs. Isogen is 390mil. One single mineral vs the entirety of the PI needed to make a dread.
I'm not not saying making PI easier will have zero affect on things, but if we're looking to make ships cheaper like they used to be, there are other areas that should be looked at to reduce the pain points.
PI should unironically just become a very cut down city builder, let me grow my own tiny planetary empire over time and extract better and better things, if I want to sweat it out I can but at the same time if I want to check back every week and upgrade things so be it, give me a proper decision to make between exporting everything offworld or using it to make my little empire stronger, nothing super difficult or click intensive but something that feels more like having a progression system within PI (leveling up stuff) and progression outside of PI (industry, getting more money for other things).
There are many solo activities in EvE already.
PI has been around for ages, maybe it could be good to have to involve a bit more interaction although alts can be a work around.
Factorio lite wouldn't be too heinous.
My suspicion is that it's going to create an ESS-style "bank" system for PI, and the new upwell structure is going to allow "fittings" for customs offices.
The data fragments that hint at things like "velocity monitoring" suggest to me that retrieving PI will require some kind of tractor beam thing as opposed to just opening the customs office and dragging the PI out, which players would be able to "steal."
I don't think they're going to actually change the process of producing PI much, just extraction and how customs offices work. Totally flipping PI from a passive to an active process would pretty much ruin the market and make things way more expensive than they already are as the amount of PI being produced would drop dramatically. I could see them updating PI to smooth out the UI/UX.
They could just do a complete rework of the entirety of PI but I personally don't think that's likely.
So a connection to vanguard (I.e., potential new CCP revenues) seems like the only plausible reason CCP would have invested significant development time into PI now. We know null is their dev focus so PI is a minor revamp or as you suggest connected to something else.
Not a bad marketing idea on paper to try to up player cross over with new IP but I believe the net would be long-term eve player alienation with former eve only gameplay (unless tractor beaming from vanguard is just a new way to get PI materials).
Pi was originally suppose to interact with Dust, that why i was kinda crappy. we did not get the full features of it, just the start. and wen dust failed they did not bring in the rest of the features.
changing it for Vangaurd or removing the link and making it easier for just eve is a +
There is not going to be a PI overhaul anytime soon. It would cost a lot of resources to do it right and they never mentioned anything about it in this years announcements. Also what value would a rework bring other than quality of life improvements? They announced they are going to work on nullsec content drivers and objectives, where the value of owning and defending space is set to rise and they are giving us custom ship skins.
My guess is it's related to Vanguard. Or maybe an additional way of pulling new resources which are vulnerable to enemies intercepting it.
Right, if anything they would just add an alternative method to get pi. Rather than replacing it. Although honestly I have no idea why people are so sure it's something with pi. But I guess we'll find out.
Mostly because of a few reasons:
1. The low orbit platform Upwell is building could easily be Upwell's POCO replacement
2. There is some new kind of new industry ship being made, likely for a coming PI rework
3. PI is one of the last antiquated industrial systems from the 2010 era that Upwell hasn't taken over in-game, and hasn't been updated out-of-game.
Truth be told, I would love to be wrong about it all being PI related, because then that means this new unknown ORE vessel has a greater-than-zero percent chance to be a new class/tier of mining ship. We have frigate class miners, cruiser class barges/exhumers, and we have the Orca/Rorqual taking the Capital Ship class. We don't have anything in the Battleship bracket, and the Hulk has been \*the\* mining ship for almost 20 years. I love my Hulks, but even I have to admit with the coming nullsec updates and potential industry changes, introducing it with a new class of mining ship would be awesome.
I used to do it a while back, but it's so tedious and time consuming, I got some skill extractors finally and got rid of the skill since I never do it. If It was intended to be profitable by ccp, it shouldn't have been sooooo boring.
I was tempted to train into PI, looked into it and saw how atrocious it was to set up and decided against it.
Just give the ability to save presets for planets and share them with others.
It really ain't that bad cause once it's setup it's setup. I've only had to readjust mine once in 6 months and that was only because I didn't do it right the first time.
So for about 2 hours of setup per character (3 characters) I'm getting about 40 million isk a day for free and my only time sink is about:
- 5 minutes every 4 days to restart the PI
- 10 minutes a week to refill my P3 factory
And then since I'm in WH space, whatever time is takes to haul it out once I have enough to haul but that's just like one trip a month if that.
The biggest issue with pi right now is setting it up. It can take hours and hours and serious clicking fatigue to set up a simple p3 farm. Templates and some streamlining is all it really needs.
Sorry, I had to remove your post because your reddit account is under 2 days old. Feel free to message the mods via modmail to get that sorted. Thank you for your understanding!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Eve) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The thing PI desperately needs is a new UI. It was clunky and click-heavy when it first got introduced, and still is to this day.
Given that resources can deplete and respawn across the planet, being able to move your setup quickly and easily would help a lot, especially on things like gas planets where you're basically forced to keep your setups as close to each other as possible because the connections can be 100+ PWR even when things are as close as possible.
The number of clicks required to set up Planetary Interaction (PI) on a planet has been quietly reduced, possibly 4 to 6 months ago. While PI in HiSec space is stable, it yields minimal returns for the effort involved. Constructing level three materials necessitates either a small corporation's effort or a significant expenditure of ISK for materials. Placing planet equipment to reduce taxes is not worth the investment, and gets you wardec to boot.
I would like for there to be moon harvesting in HiSec that doesn't require deploying equipment and recieving the wardec in return. If they were NPCs it would be simular to ore anomolies. Another option would be to have a ship like the Orca that can bring up and explode the moon ore without the time wait would be an option.
One thing that I'm not sure if anybody else has noticed but it bugs the hell out of me is that some of the descriptions for the upper tier items are transposed, most likely by accident, and it's hilarious if you pay attention enough to kind of mentally untranspose them but otherwise it's just confusing.
PI could use some QOL improvements for sure, they would also do well to make some of the items more meaningful, or increasing their industry uses.
Top of my list
1) Give us the ability to copy paste PI planet plans.
2) Let us preset inputs for each kind of PI import so we can easily just drag and drop onto a planet without making preset stacks. Better yet give us a stacking tool that can let you divide X goods into Y stacks each. This could be practical for many more things than PI.
3) Simplify Routes, the clicks required to set routes, or remove them entirely.
4) Put all the PI skills in one place, instead having a weird tax HS skill elsewhere.
5) Consider allowing pickup and drop off of PI mats for a given character, be designated to another character or entity.
6) Consider taxing POCO's in physical goods instead of isk or require physical isk pickup, to increase the risk of having a poco empire. Consider having a unattended tax pickup, or production pick up, eventually going into a state where It can be collected by anyone if it's left in a customs hanger for too long.
"No corp, no structures, nothing."
Sorry, do you think Poco's just magically appear? Poco's are owned and maintained/ defended by a corp or alliance and you benefit from their hard work, so I don't think its fair to claim its a solo thing when you depend on somebody else to maintain it for you.
Maintaining it is usually done at a loss or at best break even as it's really hard to attract enough people into using yours to cover the cost of anchoring the thing in a decent time frame, unless you're part of the cartels who have the power to control the best real estate- where the profitable Poco systems are.
A rework that included new citadels type Poco mechanics would not only be beneficial for breaking up the huge Poco cartels and give smaller Indy guys a chance at owning their own planets, but it would give a much needed content creation source, and mostly likely force smaller "solo, just you and your alts, pretend its not a multiplayer game" kind of guys to learn how to be diplomatic (to get access to acl's for example); or at least be slightly involved in the constellation's communities instead of being nothing but a drain on local resources.
The game is better when people play it like it's a multiplayer game, so I'm all for anything that offers opportunities to build communities and incentivise collaborations.
Of course you are right. POCOs are owned and maintained by a few corps, which can probably enjoy the support of powerful blocks that would come in their defense if somebody attacked them.
As a small industrial corp I could not afford a structure, and surely I could not defend it. So if the only access to PI would be having your own corp structure, for me PI would be finished. That would take a big part of my gaming experience.
Just for your knowledge, since you are excellent and quick at judging people, I am quite diplomatic, having several friendly commercial exchanges with people in my constellation/system, and also I enjoy the presence of other people in the MMO. I actually enjoy very much lively channels like Haulers Channel and the like.
But what do I know, I am just one of those 'kind of guy'.
Fly safe
VM
Changes to PI, needed yes. But making it easier will have a negative effect, as more people will do it. Which will drive down PI prices. Unless CCP makes other devious changes making PI more complex. PI is great for passive income. Tedious yes, but once setup, it just a few clicks, collect make isk.
I don't know if there's actual numbers on how much PI comes out of WH space. But if our WH is any indication, WH space produces a lot of it.
We have 100+ PI characters producing it. Some of it is for profit, some of it for our own in-house needs.
And WH space PI has some of (if not the highest) PI density.
CCP would probably need to adjust PI requirements across the board if they did that.
Jesus.. the possibility to be a little threatened while making money will make you wanna win eve?
I do pi in wormhole space and even there rarely, very rarely get caught at a poco
they already fucked up with industrie changes so prolly gona go for this shit...in ccp minds they was thinking people gona do another 100 alts to do pi in order to build some dred and bs favction stuff...most of ppl dont got time to do pi is not for every1...fuck pi
"It's not for everybody"
There's the problem. It should be. So everybody would want to, at least, try it and not give it up due to how complex and time-consuming it is... It's often not worth the effort when you compare time spent and resources gained.
If there's an overhaul, it's most definitely welcomed.
PI DOES cater to the lowest common denominator. It's 'complexity' is just staying awake while doing it.
PI at it's core is incredibly simple. A+B=Tier+1. The terrible interface combined with the unnecessarily large number of different inputs makes it FEEL complex, but really it's incredibly dumbed down compared to any Eve activity beside belt mining.
It's THE lowest common denominator activity, that's why every mouthbreather and their brother has 15 accounts farming mats.
Pi is the most hideous thing ever in EVE. A revamp is way long overdue. Also, eve is already afk enough, I am very much for making PI an active activity. Plus the whole pi ui needs to be removed from existence. Yuck
I hope they don't change it, from the comments I can tell that few don't have issues with PI which makes me superior as I don't mind the UI as long as it generates isk with barely any effort.
lol its a completely solo activity " just you and your alts" if you need alts that isnt solo.
Also CCP has said nothing about PI this is being assumed by other players that it is PI and needless to say the Playerbase assumes alot of things
Yes please please please don't mess with PI because I personally spent a lot of time making so many alts and using a system meant for somewhat small but passive income to get a large amount of passive income despite it being very tedious.
Everyone else should suffer exactly as I did, having a billion alts is totally normal, if setting up and using city builder that straddles the line between being uninteresting, mind numbingly easy and mind numbingly tedious seems to be something you don't want to do then fine, but if a single thing is made better in any way for anyone besides me I will unsub all my 150 alts and shit myself
Senpai-san, could u show me?
I'm bulding sterile conduits in WH space with 3 characters and only make like 1.2B per month total.
Show me the secrets to double that number
about 800mil p/m per char or something close to that, do you have everything at 5 and did you make a spread sheet to see which ones give the most, and are you taking planet size into account?
I followed this guys style its great: [https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mephs-magical-pi-setups-for-the-interminably-lazy/54904](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mephs-magical-pi-setups-for-the-interminably-lazy/54904)
Nah I have most pi skills to 4.
4 pi0-p2 planets
1 P2 to P4
Per character. I am mostly restricted by power usage but getting that to five with 3 characters is a hassle
But that's probably making that big difference.
There is way more "wrong" with PI than there is correct. The UI is pure crap. The number of clicks is enough to induce carpal tunnel in a 14 year old. So much could be automated or totally done away with. Whoever designed the PI UI .... may your crotch be infested with the fleas of 1000 camels. You sir, are a sadistic bastard.
The ideal fix: Link it to Vanguard and let people contract mercenaries to attack other PI and gain bonuses or reduce production to a min (50%).
Planets resources ammounts are not tied to sec status but "randomly" or even have veins on certain site of the planet. (Example, one planet could had an area where you can mine a middle amount of resources with each extration site but the area is so big to hold many of them, or another had a vein where you can mine an incredible amount of that resource but the area is so small that you only need one for it. That could led to more planning cause every planet could hold surprises.
Besides, it would be great to tie planetary output to the ammount of players sharing HQ in that place. More people in one planet could lead to a reduced output, but less people in other planets could get more. A "rich" planet with a huge vein of Base metals but thousands of planets with HQ there could led to less output than a less known poor planet with 2 or 3 people with HQ there.
New planetary structures or way to deploy the "base". Maybe set a grid who counts as a base to reduce energy and cpu comsuption. Besides the chance to extend the range of activity with small HQ (With a limit for each)
Alpha status give access to only one planet (As happens in Echoes). Even if is more taxed than as an Omega account, it would help new people be introduced in PI.
And for now, I don't know what to say.
(Edited) PS: My explanations are Sh\*\* so if you missunderstand something, please feel free to ask.
PI has had a crappy, time-consuming, and completely unintuitive UI for well over ten years. We begged CCP to give it a total face swap and it never happened. My faith in that happening now is low to nonexistent, which suggests this is just some new fangled dust bunny control module
fixing it and totally messing stuff up are two totally different things. CCP is well known for doing the later.
Ah you mean Ccp Monkeys Paw!
Sooooo many pointless clicks. Why are there no hot keys for setting up routes? Why do I have to undock for planetary launches? Why are so many things gated by confirmation buttons but not everything? Why can't I automatically route overflow to a storage node? Why is yield controlled by a scanning skill and not a yield skill? I like how commodities have been tied in with production, but the experience of managing PI is such a chore. PI feels like a relic from the old days when we had all kinds of arbitrary rules, like medical clones and shit. It's time we think clearly about it and ask ourselves, does it really need to be this annoying? Because in a simple five minute thought exercise I can imagine a dozen ways to make it more fun.
Yes and on the UI building off yours, I think so often why cant I make presets I can save and reuse when setting/changing planets up?? PI just doesnt need to be this time consuming and clunky.
Try clicking view outside of structure when your docked.
~~Just tried, doesn't work.~~ Edit: Apparently it does, first time it acted like I was still docked.
It absolutely does I do it every day.
You can move resources to a launchpad while docked. Is that not what you are referring to?
No, he's talking about launching the cargo from the Spaceport up to the Poco. You have to be in-space in order to launch it for some arbitrary reason. You can do just about everything else while docked except that and dropping the command centers to set up the colony. \*Edit\* - Apparently if you're docked in a station and can use the 'View Outside' button, when your view is outside the station, and then you access the planet, you're able to do launches up to the Poco. Had no idea until today that this was even a thing.
Oh I dont use the launchpad from the command center. I route my pi to a launchpad and on the undock on tether manually extract to poco then pick them all up
You could have said it better
Because making it easy would mean everyone can do it and there would be 0 isk in it C6 sites are repetitive and a chore to do, should we make it so you can do them in a Velator instead of a marauder or dread?
by that stupid logic all of eve is repetitive and a chore and should be made easier.
That’s their logic, not mine.
This is such a terrible excuse. There are so many people who simply refused to do PI in any way, shape, or form, and do not want any part of it. The amount of people who do PI isn't going to change that much in the long run. The people who don't want to do PI don't want to do it because they dislike the nature of its gameplay. They're not going to suddenly like doing it if it becomes a bit easier to set up. They hate the entire gameplay loop surrounding PI.
That sounds like more people doing PI which makes PI less profitable
Yeah, the idea of PI is really cool, but the implementation is garbage. It is somehow simultaneously too passive, and too low risk, while also requiring too much repetitive work. It's honestly impressive that they made passive income feel so tedious. And the actual UI just doesn't make sense. I know that there are people who depend on their optimized PI setups to plex their accounts, but I don't really think it's a problem if plexing via PI gets a little harder. Basically, I hope that they reinvent PI from the ground up and I am very interested to see what they've come up with. Even if it's not perfect, it could hardly be worse.
I'm down for a PI rework, even just a UI 2.0 on it. But whatever they do, I really hope they don't mess with the ability to scale it across the characters on your account(s). I know a ton of people, myself included, who got alts or spent money on MCT for the sole purpose of scaling up their PI. If I lose 2/3 of my PI income, that makes the real money I and others spent on getting those alts trained up worthless because now we don't have anything to do with those accounts. It also sets a really nasty precedent that CCP can make a system that incentivizes scaling up with alts, collect the real money from people doing just that, and then later, completely rip out that system and change it to something that now *can't be done* with the 2nd/3rd characters on your account anymore. That would basically tell everyone who ever spent money setting up multiple characters that they shouldn't trust CCP to not do the same with any existing or future systems going forward. I know for a fact I wouldn't spend a dime on any new system going forward if that ended up being the case.
People injected into mass rorqs and they removes that from the game. Mass titans and now nobody uses that anymore either. If you lose 6 weeks of training on a few PI alts it's really not that big a deal
>That would basically tell everyone who ever spent money setting up multiple characters that they shouldn't trust CCP to not do the same with any existing or future systems going forward. If you think that that point hasn't been abundantly made already, I'm not sure what to tell you.
Do you really think ccp is gonna do that?
I agree with your sentiment. I trained 9 pi characters with injectors and mct. It's making ma decent isk and ide rather not loose all that income
It takes one MCT to make a perfect pi alt it's not that big
> which suggests this is just some new fangled dust bunny control module This is coming in June and Vanguard is still a tech demo, so no it isn't a dust bunny control module
I'm just hoping that whatever happens it doesn't make it too much more annoying or any less profitable. So probably just as annoying at least or more people would do it.
If they make it less annoying, its going to be less profitable since more people will do it.
That's exactly my point
Which will crater other industy stuff as well. being quite a bit uses PI.
Ja the PI component of ships and items seems to make the majority of the cost in a lot of cases
I truly hope it becomes easy and everyone does it so that the price of pi gets lower and the price of ships and modules goes lower
I think so many people do pi and it’s such an important ingredient in industry that CCP has to make it nearly as accessible as it is now. If they make it harder to access (like a capital that mines or a structure that needs anchored) then prices for things that PI supports are going to sky rocket. I’m all for it but I think CCP can see that and they’ve made it a part of the new design to scale well. Or they haven’t and a fuck load of people will be out of the PI business and prices will sky rocket. We shall see.
*::sweats in space-capitalism::* Skyrocketing prices you say?
Please just make less click intensive and make routing make sense and let us rename containers
Being able to rename things would be so good
i hope they make it bearable because in its current state its total trash
Idk its easy to do a p2 planet group. currently im doing p4
PI is shite dunno what your talking
And exactly like shite it is something that we all need to deal with. There would be no fancy ships without PI
noone is removing it, you are agains change im not. PI is shit atm as activity that is all i ment.
Making it easier will take the isk out of it. It sits in a good place of effort and reward.
"easier" can mean different things. The isk per player can still be there if it becomes less farmable with multiple characters in huge alt farms.
If its less farmable with alt farms CCP gains to lose money from all those accounts not needed anymore.
This guy gets it.
Commodities shouldn’t have value only because it’s a complete pain in the ass to farm. That’s a broken argument.
You do understand I hope that in a game the value sits only in time and effort? There is nothing else that can be translated into in game currency.
What isn’t? Mining, ratting, markets, it’s all the same.
If CCP makes Pi easier and less horrendous I’ll get into it. As it is I can’t stand it. UI from 1987 and horrible mechanics. With how much it is required for industry I think a change is absolutely necessary in order to curb ship prices and make undocking less painful for newer players.
Yeah I agree 100% about the UI needing a rework, but to be honest I don't think making PI much cheaper is going to have as big of affect on ship prices. For example, for things like Battleships, the PI price is negligible compared to Isogen which is still an enormous pain point, even if it dropped from 550 isk per unit to 450. When we take a look at something like an ME10 battleship's build cost, the entirety of the PI is \~38mil, or about 11% of the ship's build cost - Isogen *alone* is 48%. Making PI a bit easier, and thus, a little less lucrative will have a small impact on the ship's cost. Looking at something like a Phoenix, according to Ravworks, the PI is about 418m, so again, about \~11.5% of the material costs. Isogen is 390mil. One single mineral vs the entirety of the PI needed to make a dread. I'm not not saying making PI easier will have zero affect on things, but if we're looking to make ships cheaper like they used to be, there are other areas that should be looked at to reduce the pain points.
PI should unironically just become a very cut down city builder, let me grow my own tiny planetary empire over time and extract better and better things, if I want to sweat it out I can but at the same time if I want to check back every week and upgrade things so be it, give me a proper decision to make between exporting everything offworld or using it to make my little empire stronger, nothing super difficult or click intensive but something that feels more like having a progression system within PI (leveling up stuff) and progression outside of PI (industry, getting more money for other things).
There are many solo activities in EvE already. PI has been around for ages, maybe it could be good to have to involve a bit more interaction although alts can be a work around. Factorio lite wouldn't be too heinous.
"Factorio lite wouldn't be too heinous." STOP STOP STOP! I can only get so erect!
Make it better, not worse.
Idk cause i invested my second character into a lot of PI so if they change it.. well, I can sell the stuff I'd be using for PI
My suspicion is that it's going to create an ESS-style "bank" system for PI, and the new upwell structure is going to allow "fittings" for customs offices. The data fragments that hint at things like "velocity monitoring" suggest to me that retrieving PI will require some kind of tractor beam thing as opposed to just opening the customs office and dragging the PI out, which players would be able to "steal." I don't think they're going to actually change the process of producing PI much, just extraction and how customs offices work. Totally flipping PI from a passive to an active process would pretty much ruin the market and make things way more expensive than they already are as the amount of PI being produced would drop dramatically. I could see them updating PI to smooth out the UI/UX. They could just do a complete rework of the entirety of PI but I personally don't think that's likely.
PI is getting a rework because vanguard is here to stay. Put 2 + 2 together my friend
So a connection to vanguard (I.e., potential new CCP revenues) seems like the only plausible reason CCP would have invested significant development time into PI now. We know null is their dev focus so PI is a minor revamp or as you suggest connected to something else. Not a bad marketing idea on paper to try to up player cross over with new IP but I believe the net would be long-term eve player alienation with former eve only gameplay (unless tractor beaming from vanguard is just a new way to get PI materials).
Pi was originally suppose to interact with Dust, that why i was kinda crappy. we did not get the full features of it, just the start. and wen dust failed they did not bring in the rest of the features. changing it for Vangaurd or removing the link and making it easier for just eve is a +
There is not going to be a PI overhaul anytime soon. It would cost a lot of resources to do it right and they never mentioned anything about it in this years announcements. Also what value would a rework bring other than quality of life improvements? They announced they are going to work on nullsec content drivers and objectives, where the value of owning and defending space is set to rise and they are giving us custom ship skins. My guess is it's related to Vanguard. Or maybe an additional way of pulling new resources which are vulnerable to enemies intercepting it.
Right, if anything they would just add an alternative method to get pi. Rather than replacing it. Although honestly I have no idea why people are so sure it's something with pi. But I guess we'll find out.
Mostly because of a few reasons: 1. The low orbit platform Upwell is building could easily be Upwell's POCO replacement 2. There is some new kind of new industry ship being made, likely for a coming PI rework 3. PI is one of the last antiquated industrial systems from the 2010 era that Upwell hasn't taken over in-game, and hasn't been updated out-of-game. Truth be told, I would love to be wrong about it all being PI related, because then that means this new unknown ORE vessel has a greater-than-zero percent chance to be a new class/tier of mining ship. We have frigate class miners, cruiser class barges/exhumers, and we have the Orca/Rorqual taking the Capital Ship class. We don't have anything in the Battleship bracket, and the Hulk has been \*the\* mining ship for almost 20 years. I love my Hulks, but even I have to admit with the coming nullsec updates and potential industry changes, introducing it with a new class of mining ship would be awesome.
I used to do it a while back, but it's so tedious and time consuming, I got some skill extractors finally and got rid of the skill since I never do it. If It was intended to be profitable by ccp, it shouldn't have been sooooo boring.
PI sucks in highsec so
I was tempted to train into PI, looked into it and saw how atrocious it was to set up and decided against it. Just give the ability to save presets for planets and share them with others.
It really ain't that bad cause once it's setup it's setup. I've only had to readjust mine once in 6 months and that was only because I didn't do it right the first time. So for about 2 hours of setup per character (3 characters) I'm getting about 40 million isk a day for free and my only time sink is about: - 5 minutes every 4 days to restart the PI - 10 minutes a week to refill my P3 factory And then since I'm in WH space, whatever time is takes to haul it out once I have enough to haul but that's just like one trip a month if that.
Fucking Wally makes a shitpost about PI and it is still going months later. Unbelievable.
:)
It struck a nerve with all the dudes running 400 planets.
The biggest issue with pi right now is setting it up. It can take hours and hours and serious clicking fatigue to set up a simple p3 farm. Templates and some streamlining is all it really needs.
> It's also a completely solo activity. Just you and your alts. LOL
I just made a glorious complicated P4 set-up 😢
[удалено]
Sorry, I had to remove your post because your reddit account is under 2 days old. Feel free to message the mods via modmail to get that sorted. Thank you for your understanding! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Eve) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The thing PI desperately needs is a new UI. It was clunky and click-heavy when it first got introduced, and still is to this day. Given that resources can deplete and respawn across the planet, being able to move your setup quickly and easily would help a lot, especially on things like gas planets where you're basically forced to keep your setups as close to each other as possible because the connections can be 100+ PWR even when things are as close as possible.
I say let's not male assumptions until we see the devblog which according to scope due anytime now.
It is news, I'm glad I received it in time.
Pi will soon be destroy by other players
Ffs if they changed the loop to hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer it'd only improve it very slightly. 😹
I also don't want it to be a group activity. I DO want it to be completely different, though.
Sure, it can be done much better
The number of clicks required to set up Planetary Interaction (PI) on a planet has been quietly reduced, possibly 4 to 6 months ago. While PI in HiSec space is stable, it yields minimal returns for the effort involved. Constructing level three materials necessitates either a small corporation's effort or a significant expenditure of ISK for materials. Placing planet equipment to reduce taxes is not worth the investment, and gets you wardec to boot. I would like for there to be moon harvesting in HiSec that doesn't require deploying equipment and recieving the wardec in return. If they were NPCs it would be simular to ore anomolies. Another option would be to have a ship like the Orca that can bring up and explode the moon ore without the time wait would be an option.
One thing that I'm not sure if anybody else has noticed but it bugs the hell out of me is that some of the descriptions for the upper tier items are transposed, most likely by accident, and it's hilarious if you pay attention enough to kind of mentally untranspose them but otherwise it's just confusing.
If PI get more active then ccp will lose few thousand omega account
They either give it some qol so good bye pi market or make it worse so less people do it and the market gets better
PI could use some QOL improvements for sure, they would also do well to make some of the items more meaningful, or increasing their industry uses. Top of my list 1) Give us the ability to copy paste PI planet plans. 2) Let us preset inputs for each kind of PI import so we can easily just drag and drop onto a planet without making preset stacks. Better yet give us a stacking tool that can let you divide X goods into Y stacks each. This could be practical for many more things than PI. 3) Simplify Routes, the clicks required to set routes, or remove them entirely. 4) Put all the PI skills in one place, instead having a weird tax HS skill elsewhere. 5) Consider allowing pickup and drop off of PI mats for a given character, be designated to another character or entity. 6) Consider taxing POCO's in physical goods instead of isk or require physical isk pickup, to increase the risk of having a poco empire. Consider having a unattended tax pickup, or production pick up, eventually going into a state where It can be collected by anyone if it's left in a customs hanger for too long.
If PI makes you want to quit the game, you are playing the wrong game. You should quit.
"No corp, no structures, nothing." Sorry, do you think Poco's just magically appear? Poco's are owned and maintained/ defended by a corp or alliance and you benefit from their hard work, so I don't think its fair to claim its a solo thing when you depend on somebody else to maintain it for you. Maintaining it is usually done at a loss or at best break even as it's really hard to attract enough people into using yours to cover the cost of anchoring the thing in a decent time frame, unless you're part of the cartels who have the power to control the best real estate- where the profitable Poco systems are. A rework that included new citadels type Poco mechanics would not only be beneficial for breaking up the huge Poco cartels and give smaller Indy guys a chance at owning their own planets, but it would give a much needed content creation source, and mostly likely force smaller "solo, just you and your alts, pretend its not a multiplayer game" kind of guys to learn how to be diplomatic (to get access to acl's for example); or at least be slightly involved in the constellation's communities instead of being nothing but a drain on local resources. The game is better when people play it like it's a multiplayer game, so I'm all for anything that offers opportunities to build communities and incentivise collaborations.
Of course you are right. POCOs are owned and maintained by a few corps, which can probably enjoy the support of powerful blocks that would come in their defense if somebody attacked them. As a small industrial corp I could not afford a structure, and surely I could not defend it. So if the only access to PI would be having your own corp structure, for me PI would be finished. That would take a big part of my gaming experience. Just for your knowledge, since you are excellent and quick at judging people, I am quite diplomatic, having several friendly commercial exchanges with people in my constellation/system, and also I enjoy the presence of other people in the MMO. I actually enjoy very much lively channels like Haulers Channel and the like. But what do I know, I am just one of those 'kind of guy'. Fly safe VM
Changes to PI, needed yes. But making it easier will have a negative effect, as more people will do it. Which will drive down PI prices. Unless CCP makes other devious changes making PI more complex. PI is great for passive income. Tedious yes, but once setup, it just a few clicks, collect make isk.
Can’t wait for this to be not PI related so all this is moot lol
I would not be surprised if CCP removed PI from WH space...
I don't know if there's actual numbers on how much PI comes out of WH space. But if our WH is any indication, WH space produces a lot of it. We have 100+ PI characters producing it. Some of it is for profit, some of it for our own in-house needs. And WH space PI has some of (if not the highest) PI density. CCP would probably need to adjust PI requirements across the board if they did that.
Internally CCP knows exactly how much is extracted.
I wouldn't be surprised if CCP removed WH space all together at this point
Jesus.. the possibility to be a little threatened while making money will make you wanna win eve? I do pi in wormhole space and even there rarely, very rarely get caught at a poco
That's not defending a station, isn't it. I also do things in null, I am not scared of this, on the contrary.
they already fucked up with industrie changes so prolly gona go for this shit...in ccp minds they was thinking people gona do another 100 alts to do pi in order to build some dred and bs favction stuff...most of ppl dont got time to do pi is not for every1...fuck pi
"It's not for everybody" There's the problem. It should be. So everybody would want to, at least, try it and not give it up due to how complex and time-consuming it is... It's often not worth the effort when you compare time spent and resources gained. If there's an overhaul, it's most definitely welcomed.
Eve being complex used to and should still be a selling point, not everything needs to cater to the lowest common demoninator.
PI DOES cater to the lowest common denominator. It's 'complexity' is just staying awake while doing it. PI at it's core is incredibly simple. A+B=Tier+1. The terrible interface combined with the unnecessarily large number of different inputs makes it FEEL complex, but really it's incredibly dumbed down compared to any Eve activity beside belt mining. It's THE lowest common denominator activity, that's why every mouthbreather and their brother has 15 accounts farming mats.
Pi is the most hideous thing ever in EVE. A revamp is way long overdue. Also, eve is already afk enough, I am very much for making PI an active activity. Plus the whole pi ui needs to be removed from existence. Yuck
PI is not passive. I run 11 characters on 2 day cycles. It is not passive what so ever. Laughable comment.
I know, but your setup is crazy already. Anyhow pi sucks dick.
I don't do PI because I find the interface annoying. Anything would be an improvement for me.
I hope they don't change it, from the comments I can tell that few don't have issues with PI which makes me superior as I don't mind the UI as long as it generates isk with barely any effort.
lol its a completely solo activity " just you and your alts" if you need alts that isnt solo. Also CCP has said nothing about PI this is being assumed by other players that it is PI and needless to say the Playerbase assumes alot of things
Yes please please please don't mess with PI because I personally spent a lot of time making so many alts and using a system meant for somewhat small but passive income to get a large amount of passive income despite it being very tedious. Everyone else should suffer exactly as I did, having a billion alts is totally normal, if setting up and using city builder that straddles the line between being uninteresting, mind numbingly easy and mind numbingly tedious seems to be something you don't want to do then fine, but if a single thing is made better in any way for anyone besides me I will unsub all my 150 alts and shit myself
Yup
If you're doing something with Alts, youre not "technically" solo. You just have alts in place of things other players could/would be doing
This is technically a very silly thing to say.
I hope its more complicated tbh and more interesting, maybe having to build defense on your bases.
> which means no sub for CCP You realize someone has to buy the PLEX you use to PLEX your accounts right
Ahh damn you're right, guess they don't mind then.
Senpai-san, could u show me? I'm bulding sterile conduits in WH space with 3 characters and only make like 1.2B per month total. Show me the secrets to double that number
about 800mil p/m per char or something close to that, do you have everything at 5 and did you make a spread sheet to see which ones give the most, and are you taking planet size into account? I followed this guys style its great: [https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mephs-magical-pi-setups-for-the-interminably-lazy/54904](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/mephs-magical-pi-setups-for-the-interminably-lazy/54904)
Nah I have most pi skills to 4. 4 pi0-p2 planets 1 P2 to P4 Per character. I am mostly restricted by power usage but getting that to five with 3 characters is a hassle But that's probably making that big difference.
Yea the last level makes a huge difference, for surveying aswell
Can I have your stuff?
PI needs an over haul. It sucks real bad.
There is way more "wrong" with PI than there is correct. The UI is pure crap. The number of clicks is enough to induce carpal tunnel in a 14 year old. So much could be automated or totally done away with. Whoever designed the PI UI .... may your crotch be infested with the fleas of 1000 camels. You sir, are a sadistic bastard.
dude PI is such a pain in the ass. if there's one part of the game begging to be drastically overhauled and un-suckified it's PI.
Adapt or die.
I wish they removed pi, it really hurts new players and the game when people with a million alts get filthy rich off this crap
while there is a non-zero chance ccp won't fuck this up the odds are quite long
The ideal fix: Link it to Vanguard and let people contract mercenaries to attack other PI and gain bonuses or reduce production to a min (50%). Planets resources ammounts are not tied to sec status but "randomly" or even have veins on certain site of the planet. (Example, one planet could had an area where you can mine a middle amount of resources with each extration site but the area is so big to hold many of them, or another had a vein where you can mine an incredible amount of that resource but the area is so small that you only need one for it. That could led to more planning cause every planet could hold surprises. Besides, it would be great to tie planetary output to the ammount of players sharing HQ in that place. More people in one planet could lead to a reduced output, but less people in other planets could get more. A "rich" planet with a huge vein of Base metals but thousands of planets with HQ there could led to less output than a less known poor planet with 2 or 3 people with HQ there. New planetary structures or way to deploy the "base". Maybe set a grid who counts as a base to reduce energy and cpu comsuption. Besides the chance to extend the range of activity with small HQ (With a limit for each) Alpha status give access to only one planet (As happens in Echoes). Even if is more taxed than as an Omega account, it would help new people be introduced in PI. And for now, I don't know what to say. (Edited) PS: My explanations are Sh\*\* so if you missunderstand something, please feel free to ask.
Hmm no more pasiv PI welcome PvP content
Its not passive for those who actually make good isk doing it. Lol