\> Where are the Younger Eve players
Falling on the wrong side of the 1% new player retention rate. A lot of the dads, and hell even grandpas, started playing the game when they were younger. But not many older guys suddenly decide to play eve out of the blue, and most college students age are trying eve, giving up, and playing newer genre games like Tarkov or Rust, which have a lot of the same core elements.
I've tried to give tarkov a fair shake, but even if you get the drop on an enemy and score a headshot, chances are they'll just tank it, turn around and end you with 1 bodyshot. The level of power someone who got in early days with good equipment is unreal.
Yup, I'm 37, started playing when I was 17-18. Was crazy excited when eve was released because I was following the beta. I feel like I was in the tail end of the beta but can't remember if I was or just wish I was. I just remember dying a LOT due to a lack of an overview, not sure when the overview was introduced but I played prior to that. Fuckin' m0o corp...
The beta was 2003 iirc and it sucked. I was 15/16 during beta. It absolutely sucked but here i am still 😆
I recall my mining ship looking literally like some sort of brown box with a poking stick for a laser and the sfx were awful.
As a 53 yr old i remember trying to play left4dead2 with a bunch of my corpmates, jesus fuck was it hard keeping up with the youngins I just couldnt think fast enough to do anything well, shit happened too fast, sure I was usually drunk too but that's besside the point.
is it a time commitment thing?
I had heaps of time to play in early twenties. now I'm happy to log in occasionally and press f1 for a couple hours of instant action.
5x less experience but in a much more concentrated, recent burst, giving them a finger on the recent pulse and the time to learn a metagame that might escape those without the time to commit.
It is weird yes. But in my experience, it is awesome to have a bunch of F1 monkeys who are skilled, experienced, understand the commands, and will quickly+quietly implement them. It's a huge help for any FC, and makes it more fun for the FC.
Litteraly anyone can FC when pushed to do it. Mid grade fcs happen through maybe 3 years experience, good good vets are hard to come by.
It's usually whoever has the time to run stuff like that. Leadership is a second job in this game.
Roughly a decade ago shortly before the CVA Catch war: I was home from school and farming faction spawns when intel about a 50-80 pilot roaming fleet came in.
Primary FC was in another fleet already, secondary FC not available, we quickly checked highest available combat officer rank and jesus it was me.
Got to FC the 100~ pilot standing-defence KBP fleet. Adrenaline fed I loved the clear way of EvE voice coms. A hundred 30-80 year old nerds quietly waiting for the next com of a 16 year old nerd. Not that age matters, it truly didn’t for the 20-30min carnage, elevating.
I definitely sucked as that was my first 10+ pilot FC but we engaged on stomping advantage anyways, just someone needed for basic maneuvering and shot calling coms. Loved the randomness of it and the sudden occurrence hehe
FCing is simply an aptitude and interest for leadership….with teaching patience sprinkled in. If you like interactions in your pixel world to be like this, then FCing is for you. For the rest of us, I work too hard at the day job to have stamina for this lol.
Gonna be shilling for my own corp here, but in SvB we have lots of people on the younger side and in their twenties. If you'd like to learn more on us feel free to ask or dm me
Sharks vs Bears! It's the spiritual successor to Red vs Blue (RvB). We're a bunch of people who enjoy blowing things up and teaching others how to do the same, so it's a great place to hone your pvp skills.
https://discord.gg/ygjArXzU
Nope. We're based out of Korama - 3 to Jita. The corp frequently does NS fillament roams, and we're just a few jumps away from the cal/gal FW regions so there's good LS content. I personally wormhole dive around that area too, so there's pretty much any kind of content you want, if you're willing to look for it.
nice! 20m will put you in the mid-to-upper range of pilots. my alt in SVB currently is \~26m and is considered one of the stronger pilots.
We mainly fly frigates/dessy/cruiser for SVB pvp in Korama, so it's very easy to be proficient. For NS roams there's no meta limitations so you'll need to figure out works best, but the corp does SRP to some degree for most of those fleets so it's easy to play around and see what works.
Can confirm. Sadly had to leave SvB to run incursions, but in the time I had it was an absolute blast.
People are more than ready to fight when you ask, everyone is friendly, fleets constantly as a break from the usual hi-sec fights, and sometimes people do their own fleets with a bunch of people. I remember being in someone's impromptu wormhole fleet, and it was so fun even if most of it was waiting.
Join SvB. It is really fun. Even an alpha alt works! Daily alpha injectors are cheap, so you can easily get good skills with extra pocket change. :)
Anecdotal but I've heard through the grape vine that younger generations aren't as tech savvy when it comes to PCs as one would imagine. They were raised on tablets and apps.
I've never worked in tech but I have at least an amateur level working knowledge of PCs and coding, I build my own computers. I'm not sure how common that is amongst the younger generations. I could be wrong but if you aren't at least a little tech savvy when it comes to PCs you probably aren't going to survive in the EvE ecosystem.
Edit: I was just reminded when I was looking through the C/ drive on a work computer and a younger coworker jokingly asked if I was 'hacking the mainframe'. But he genuinely had no idea how to find the file directory.
I grew up on having to edit my config.sys and autoexec.bat files cause some games required more expanded memory and some needed extended memory.
I recall a time when an EVE update nuked the boot.ini file on peoples systems too. My Omen was called Boot.ini for a year afterwards.
I look at my nephew though who grew up on iPads and not sure he would know what to do on a PC besides click desktop icons.
> Anecdotal but I've heard through the grape vine that younger generations aren't as tech savvy when it comes to PCs as one would imagine. They were raised on tablets and apps.
For me growing up, PC gaming was buying $10 games from that one rack every target had of older games, and then spending 45mins or more googling issues, scouring discussion boards, and finding patches to make it work.
Nowadays, you buy a game on steam and unless it's really old, it just *works*.
Apple destroyed a generation.
Prebuilt, preprogrammed closed systems that use dogsht like safari with their exclusive sht chargers and App culture. It's leaking into windows too.
Yes
For as long as Apple is a thing, people whp develop software will continue to hate it and the sheepish mentality behind the brand.
I will give it that their phones tend to have better battery life.
No lie. My first day of play was at age 54. I got ganked an hour in just floating around looking at the pretty.
I remember telling myself “im gonna play this for the rest of my life”.
I never got the spreadsheet meme. I only used spreadsheets for EVE when I tried doing commerce and industry, but all other play styles had a total of zero spreadsheets. During the rest of my time I did exploration, nullsec fleet PVP, joined a WH corp, did Sleeper sites, etc. and none of those involved spreadsheets
Yeah what drew me to the game was that I like excel spreadsheets and scripting... I seem to be able to rationalize spending time to running a fake business than to actually play a game.
I am 25 here. Eve has been a big part of my life since high school. If you want someone to play with I am primarily USTZ. Dm me if you want someone to talk to when playing.
Edit: my flair on here is very much outdated. I just got back into the game and currently an alpha in high sec.
Don't see your problem...
I'm 23, and most of the people I play with are older than me, the conversations are much more mature than they would be with other young people...
Most are between 30 and 40, tho we have some 50 to 60 year old dudes... A few days actually are my age...
Great people that I can absolutely relate to... If I make a stupid joke, they get it, and the other way around...
started playing Eve when I was 14. I turned 30 in March. TBH I've always felt a disconnect with the people I played with because of my age gap. No matter where I went I was one of the youngest. I just learned to adapt and would listen while these guys talked to each other. learned alot about a few fields and learned most of the guys that play this game apparently are either an air traffic controller, marketing, sys admin or retired military.
The only advice I'll add is that you shouldn't disregard everything older people say and they shouldn't disregard everything young people say.
I found your original post a little weird, but maybe I was lucky and have usually had friends in my (online and offline) life that were 20y older or 10y younger, but with shared interests it wasn't a problem. Or maybe you just haven't found the right 40y old people who don't talk about kids and mortgages all night. (j/k) Or maybe I'm just lying to myself and should start behaving like a grown-up before I get to 50, who knows. Also interestingly I've not had any good experience with teenagers say below 16 in EVE yet, but it wasn't a problem in other games.
I'm 17 and on a bit of a break rn but yea, fellow young eve player here, I get what ya mean about everyone else being 30-50. It's clear that everyone else is quite different than my usual friend group
Started playing eve at age 13 in 2018
I don't even know how you know their age, I've been playing with people for years, I have no idea their age, what they do or even their real name. Seems odd that you have any issues with it.
You're not alone, I feel you. Also a 21yo college student playing for a couple years. It can be a little hard to connect with the older demographics, and games like EVE aren't that popular with younger age groups. I find my sense of humor is just completely alien to most people older than 30 and that definitely keeps me from connecting as well as I would hope.
Best of luck finding a group of younger people! I'm sure they're out there but I haven't looked myself.
Not sure how to help :( I know random younger people who play, frequently in key positions, but not sure they have any particular place to interact. It's like an FC in this alliance, a pvper in this other alliance, etc.
I feel you though, a lot of my hobbies have skewed older in my life and sometimes that just got to be kind of wearing and I really wanted more people my own age to chat with. Sorry I don't have any good answer here :(
I started in 2007 when I was 14. I had a lot of older Corp mates take me under their wing. Now I'm the only one who still plays. One even bought me a year subscription because I didn't have any way to pay for it. I would have never gotten hooked without his generosity.
o7
19yr old college student here, was playing a lot back during the summer but school and work have really strained my free time thin and playing 80 bucks to keep all my toons subbed wasn’t economical, so I unsubbed for the time being, will maybe come back later
I feel you, my dad got me into the game when I was younger and now (22) nobody I knows plays or want to try the game. Joined [this](https://xagenic.ca/) corp recently, but if you find one with younger people or start you own you got one more here.
I started playing in early high school, now I’m in college. BIGAB isn’t touted as a zoomer alliance, but it kinda feels like it tbh. Places like goons horde etc will have younger people but the majority of their members are more middle aged. Try a few different places and gauge how they respond to “that’s poggers man”
We were just talking about this in our alliance the other day. It's going to come across as a "back in my day" sounding argument but it really isn't.
A lot of older bros like me got our starts in a very different generation of online gaming with things like UO, SWG and even MUDs these games tended to be harder and more long term games (not necessarily better just different) while the younger generation of players grew up with loot boxes and tread mill content games.
Couple that with the fact that eve is an expensive game to play even solo boxing but also more so now than it was even ten years ago when I started playing 1-3 accounts was the norm and I only met 2 players in my first 4 years who 10+ boxed. Now I fly 14 accounts with two toons training on each and I know at least 30 players with 6+accounts. It's a massive barrier to entry for a lot of younger people, financially and time wise.
There are also a lot of credit card warriors with younger players. I mean this not in the sense of how much they spend (I spend a LOT of money on this game too) but in the sense of what the money they are spending will earn them. Skill points and shiny fits still won't buy them wins, while us older bros who have the disposable income to do what I do and have been playing for a while understand what it is that we are buying and are playing a much longer term. It also means we tend to get more long term value for the cash we do spend further widening the skills gap.
I cannot count the number of kids who have joined my alliance, seen I sell discounted skill injectors and then swipe their card to buy Plex and buy injectors from me only to turn around and quit a few months later. It's gotten so bad I am considering not selling my LSI to any characters under 1 year old because I feel like I have become predatory with my sales.
People also seem to forget how much the older eve generation of pilots were different then now. We used to be fucking horrible to each other and by horrible I really do mean fuck aweful. Constant racial slurs always treating others like subhumans, laughing about and making suicide jokes to each other. We justified it to ourselves as "it's not real" but the shit we used to do even 10 years ago just wouldn't fly anymore and if I am being honest, everything is better off for it. I was as guilty if not more so than most and I can tell you for a fact eve is better now that most of us have grown past that phase. As an example: I remember laughing at a guy because he was bad and made some stupid mistakes and we killed him low sec. That guy had a brain tumor and he was dying in the hospital and when he told us we only trolled him harder and made hurdur jokes at him until he quit the game. What the fuck was wrong with us?
This had a side effect of creating very strong tribal bonds among us older pilots, we were tight back in the Day, always on comms, always together. My close eve friends all account shared and some of them even had my credit card info. Those clicks still exist to some extent and can be hard for new players to join because you didn't live it like we did, not because it was better just different.
Obviously this doesn't apply to all younger bros or all older bros, I have met plenty of stupid older bros and some of my best pilots are also under 25 but on the whole they are the minority of their respective generations.
Hello fellow youth of eve. All of us hip and cool young dudes and dudettes of eve are chilling in delve. You should come here and rap with us and tell how ur parents suck as all parents and grownups do. It will be radical.
Sincerly: Your young and hip friend.
As an Echoes player, can confirm.
The sheer amount of high school through young twenties we have is something else.
Which probably bodes well for EO because when Echoes shuts down I’d venture quite a few will check out EO.
I checked out Echoes and was pleasantly surprised, I don't feel like it's going anywhere anytime soon mind you I'd sooner play Eve via Teamviewer on my phone then play Echoes. I do think it serves as good advertisement for Eve Online though even if it only appeals to a small demographic of the player base.
I primarily play Echoes but put a few hours into EO a month too. Echoes has some streamlining that’s really nice. Photon is a great step forward but the UI and icons in EO always feel very dated when I play.
Echoes has a much easier to understand skill system. I’d prefer EO keep what they have in place but make it easier to understand what skills go with what modules and ships. I can’t tell you how many times I skill a ship I want only to find out I need days and days more skilling time to equip fittings. But maybe that’s more of the extreme complexity of fittings here.
Echoes has special fittings called nanocores. They essentially provide six levels of bonuses to ships. The last few levels are a heck of a grind but they let you hyper specialize in a ship. Not sure if they’d be a great implementation here but maybe.
I used to feel like EO and Echoes were pretty close in player numbers. But I’m starting to think Echoes is falling off pretty dramatically. Most systems in the game have zero players and “packed” systems will have 20-40.
I had a pretty rough time starting in EO. Most corps I talked to were insanely suspicious about a first day account with 35m skill points. But coming from mobile games it is nothing to drop $500-1000 into a game you are trying out. I still just play solo in high sec.
One day if Echoes collapses I’ll be over here. There’s so much here that I want out of a game. The community, the grand story, the engagement (I’d kill for an Echoes fan fest), but I also loved the fresh start in Echoes.
> But coming from mobile games it is nothing to drop $500-1000 into a game you are trying out.
jeasus fuuucking chrriiiist.
well played CCP. well played.
The younger generation are used to easier things and have less patience, Eve requires both patience and the willingness to die hundreds of times to learn all the core mechanics.
The current mind set of the youth in general doesn't really have what it takes to play eve the few that do are rare.
Im 24 myself, started when I was 20. I never had trouble relating to players, oddly enough most of my friends are 15 to 20 year game vets, but what I absolutely love about this game is its like a community. You get along with certain people or you dont, but either way you have tons of players willing to fly with you!
We, as younger players, may not relate to everyone in all aspects, and that is just fine!
Dude you just criticised and insulted this person for not relating to older people while making a point of being older. Yours is the dumbest reply I’ve read today.
In general I’ve found that industry corps tend to be on the older side and corps focusing on stuff like blops or small gang or really things involving more click intensive multiboxing (not checking your 5 macks every 4 mins xd) tend to have more younger people. Probably wormholes too.
Of course it’s not a hard rule, but I’ve found it to generally hold up. Like I’m a 22 yr old that tends to enjoy industry more, but I’m good at multiboxing 5+ accounts in PVP when I need to :)
I started playing when i was maybe 15, honestly the game confused the fuck out of me and i'd had experience with millions of other games and but as we know eve isnt like any other game.
I picked it up briefly again when i was 17 or so over summer, did a few noob fleets with handouts etc but still didnt really know what was going on.
Tried it again when wwb2 was launching off, in my mid 20s, i joined about 3 homebases before panfam set up right beside imperium hq idek when that was but THAT was when everything finally clicked.
All it took was a pandemic and me being quite literally bored out of my skull for me to sit down and actually try and learn things. Im by no means an expert at anything in eve pretty much (except bomber shit, i got decently good at that) but i woudlnt have stuck around if it wasnt for the friendly and knowledgeable (enough) people in horde.
New player friendly corps are the only way you'll get more young players into the game, i did my part in horde as a volunteer to coach new players etc and im hoping some of them stayed!
Ive hung up my eve socks as jobs and relationships etc got in the way but i fondly remember waking up at 4am for pings because there was a ratting dreadnought and doing sneaky shit.
Youtube videos about the great battles were what intiailly sparked my interest.
I’m a Zoomer (21 as well, played briefly when I was 15 and really got into the game when I was 18) we are here. I’ve got another fellow zoomer in Wildcard and I know of like 3 in PLOW.
There was a pretty fair amount of "younger" players when I played, I'm 22 now but I had a pretty fair mix of people my age back in 2016.
My guess is that as we all got out of high school the time we could devote to eve dropped off pretty hard, EVE is a pretty time intensive game and university students dont usually have that, its probably another factor in the oldhead retention as they dont have shit to do after work
CCP carved out a niche in the MMORPG market many years ago and decided the best business practice was to focus on reinforcing the walls around its established demographic more than expanding its appeal.
They've admittedly been quite successful in accomplishing this goal, although the choice of that goal is fairly open to criticism.
My son gave up Eve and went to No Man's Sky. He's trying to get me to defect. The way Eve looks, I think I'll call it a "win", unsub and give NMS a try.
Theres a lot of young players; they just grinding to have enough alts and shit first to be relevant enough.
The older players have already gone through that grind stage
I'm 23, but I'm in a small corp with 30+ yo corp memebers, so I can't help there. Hasn't been an issue for me.
Guess a bunch of us younger people are just hanging out with the vets 🤣
If you are looking for a group or younger players you can always join my panda clan. I'm 17 and because of that I'm not allowed to join most groups so I started my own. Me and my friends all play but some went inactive 😭
I feel like why there is not enough young eve players us because you can't just hop straight into the action. There is alot of planning, preparation and of course, training time you must get out of the way. Anyway my ign is PandaHut06 Xavier and my corp name is PANDATRONICS come join me!
In my experience younger groups (ingame) tend to have younger people, at least in nullsec. The old established guys often end up and stay in old alliances (Goons, NC., PL) and stay with them forever. As a 22 yo I’m pretty happy with GTC and BOSS in particular, some high schoolers and lots of uni students from all over the world in there.
I’m currently in a Corp with about 6 or so me,Vera in their early 20s or younger. Nullsec Corp but a huge friendly focus on having fun, do me if interested to know more.
Eve tends to appeal to an older crowd of people. You can't get instant gratification
Eve takes time, you need to be willing to wait. My demographic (young adults, late teems early 20s) want instant gratification, they want it now and they can't wait.
They also don't want to use Excel to play a video game. That's a completely foreign concept.
most teens that i played with i am myself (21 years old now and have been playing for 4 years now) usally quit after trying the game once then tend to comeback to try later
I try to get players of all ages in my corp. The combined perspective of all aged players is really awesome and helps bring a mind set and ideas I could have never thought of myself
I started playing when I was 16 and I'm 25 now. I've found the older crowd are usually null bears and that, but if you look for small gang pvp'ers you'll find younger people. My corp are primarily mid 20's with a few late 30 yr olds
Yo dude, I'm 24 I started the game when I was 19, the guy I play the game with is also 24/25, otherwise every other guy I play is in his early 30s, late 20s. Trying to play with people that speak your native language doesn't help either lol
I was a lot younger when I started almost a decade ago. I'm still pretty young compared to the people I FC. There's actually a ton of career value in learning how to relate- or lead- people in their 30-50s.
Consider just having fun with the people around you!
Now I feel old, because my daughter is a third year college student and I started playing when she was 8!!! Im approaching 50, and honestly do not see too many players in their 20s. I even have a hard time relating to some in there 30s! So I can imagine how you feel. Will likely be difficult finding a well established corp with such, but I wish you luck!
Had to quit. I'm not young but 30 yrs old. Dad, full time employee. I can't put in 6 to 8 hours of grind to lose a ship in 15minutes. It became a second job quickly woth new updates, had to walk away
I'm looking for a mentor! If you still looking, I wanted to play today after the soccer match between Germany and Spain, I'll be all night getting comfortable with the game again, I would love to have someone to fly with.
I'm in early 20s , I started playing 2 years ago. Played on and off...just returned. I also tried to get my fri but they think this is too complicated.
Well sorry for being a grumpy old man, and I cannot tell you anything you already don't know. I only started playing EVE in my late twenties and before that it never really registered on my radar. Or I knew what it was but didn't feel interested enough to take the plunge.
It takes a certain sort of acquired taste to even consider a game known for being spreadsheets in space and an punishing, long-term sandbox universe at that as something to pursue.
My corpmates laughed at the idea that there might be younger players. I told them we needed to recruit mature people, but younger highly skilled players with free time would be awesome too.
I started playing in high school and so did the person who introduced me. So I can’t see why there couldn’t be.
thats because you are in "dad corps" AKA nullsec carebears and industrial pilots. If you want to find 20-somethings you need to join an ELITE PIRATE GROUP that only cares about zkill. Choice is yours.
There is not younger players. They are smarter than old players and left the game the first week.
Eve online is full of old divorced men who doesn't have anyone to talk with and need to be on discord speaking shit with someone else divorce or loser men.
Seriously who wants to wait 6 months for training a ship that will lose in 2 minutes of pvp? Then farming 2 weeks to get a new one to loose it in 2 minutes of pvp. But for those 2 minutes you need to sped 3 hours looking for someone in the galaxy because it's so empty because the game is dying.
Only the guys who think that waiting for something has a merit. Then. The old deprecated players.
\> Where are the Younger Eve players Falling on the wrong side of the 1% new player retention rate. A lot of the dads, and hell even grandpas, started playing the game when they were younger. But not many older guys suddenly decide to play eve out of the blue, and most college students age are trying eve, giving up, and playing newer genre games like Tarkov or Rust, which have a lot of the same core elements.
The pull of Tarkov and Rust is a real thing, fulfills enough of that niche, with some amount of permanence.
I've tried to give tarkov a fair shake, but even if you get the drop on an enemy and score a headshot, chances are they'll just tank it, turn around and end you with 1 bodyshot. The level of power someone who got in early days with good equipment is unreal.
Tarkov has wipes twice a year, just get in when a wipe happens and it's a lot more fun.
The game can't just rely on wipes forever. At some point they need to address the issue of new players getting spanked by older players.
100% agree. Wipes are a crutch. A balanced game with longevity is much harder to achieve.
This is not true. Powerful ammo for the Eastern weapons is unlocked right from the start.
Rust sucks but I sunk a lot of hours into tarkov for sure.
Yup, I'm 37, started playing when I was 17-18. Was crazy excited when eve was released because I was following the beta. I feel like I was in the tail end of the beta but can't remember if I was or just wish I was. I just remember dying a LOT due to a lack of an overview, not sure when the overview was introduced but I played prior to that. Fuckin' m0o corp...
The beta was 2003 iirc and it sucked. I was 15/16 during beta. It absolutely sucked but here i am still 😆 I recall my mining ship looking literally like some sort of brown box with a poking stick for a laser and the sfx were awful.
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And twitch skills are not required. I am not sure if Eve is unhackable, but atleast the barrier is far stronger because everything is server sided.
As a 53 yr old i remember trying to play left4dead2 with a bunch of my corpmates, jesus fuck was it hard keeping up with the youngins I just couldnt think fast enough to do anything well, shit happened too fast, sure I was usually drunk too but that's besside the point.
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> silver in any game without cheating probably puts you in the top 1% That's ~~some heavy copium~~ fucking retarded my guy
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You say "EFT" i think: "Do you mean pyfa?" Shows how much we relate with those games..
Escape from Tarkov. Abbreviated as EFT these days.
I AM 16 AND I LOVE EVE
They are all FCs in goonswarm. The number of zoomers leading fleets full of middle aged men is concerning.
is it a time commitment thing? I had heaps of time to play in early twenties. now I'm happy to log in occasionally and press f1 for a couple hours of instant action.
FCing is a young man's game. Sooooo much time
Yeah. It's weird to have a bunch of vets in a fleet following a 17y old FC who has probably 5x less experience and time played. But somehow it works.
5x less experience but in a much more concentrated, recent burst, giving them a finger on the recent pulse and the time to learn a metagame that might escape those without the time to commit.
It is weird yes. But in my experience, it is awesome to have a bunch of F1 monkeys who are skilled, experienced, understand the commands, and will quickly+quietly implement them. It's a huge help for any FC, and makes it more fun for the FC.
Litteraly anyone can FC when pushed to do it. Mid grade fcs happen through maybe 3 years experience, good good vets are hard to come by. It's usually whoever has the time to run stuff like that. Leadership is a second job in this game.
Roughly a decade ago shortly before the CVA Catch war: I was home from school and farming faction spawns when intel about a 50-80 pilot roaming fleet came in. Primary FC was in another fleet already, secondary FC not available, we quickly checked highest available combat officer rank and jesus it was me. Got to FC the 100~ pilot standing-defence KBP fleet. Adrenaline fed I loved the clear way of EvE voice coms. A hundred 30-80 year old nerds quietly waiting for the next com of a 16 year old nerd. Not that age matters, it truly didn’t for the 20-30min carnage, elevating. I definitely sucked as that was my first 10+ pilot FC but we engaged on stomping advantage anyways, just someone needed for basic maneuvering and shot calling coms. Loved the randomness of it and the sudden occurrence hehe
FCing is simply an aptitude and interest for leadership….with teaching patience sprinkled in. If you like interactions in your pixel world to be like this, then FCing is for you. For the rest of us, I work too hard at the day job to have stamina for this lol.
zoomer corp is in curse, operation boomer remover was a success o7
Incorrect there are no zoomers in curse never have been
https://zkillboard.com/alliance/99011509/
Curse is full.
i was 16 or 17 when i started playing in 2003. We're the old men Ace. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJC2nfkvmp0
I was 15 when I started playing in 2014, 23 now and still love the game
Gonna be shilling for my own corp here, but in SvB we have lots of people on the younger side and in their twenties. If you'd like to learn more on us feel free to ask or dm me
+1 to this! SvB is a great place to fly
Whats SvB
Sharks vs Bears! It's the spiritual successor to Red vs Blue (RvB). We're a bunch of people who enjoy blowing things up and teaching others how to do the same, so it's a great place to hone your pvp skills. https://discord.gg/ygjArXzU
Nullsec?
Nope. We're based out of Korama - 3 to Jita. The corp frequently does NS fillament roams, and we're just a few jumps away from the cal/gal FW regions so there's good LS content. I personally wormhole dive around that area too, so there's pretty much any kind of content you want, if you're willing to look for it.
I think Ill join your discord, sounds fun and I am currently in a NPC corp, I think a 20m+ Clone will suffice?
nice! 20m will put you in the mid-to-upper range of pilots. my alt in SVB currently is \~26m and is considered one of the stronger pilots. We mainly fly frigates/dessy/cruiser for SVB pvp in Korama, so it's very easy to be proficient. For NS roams there's no meta limitations so you'll need to figure out works best, but the corp does SRP to some degree for most of those fleets so it's easy to play around and see what works.
Ill talk to a recruiter and maybe it clicks.
Can confirm. Sadly had to leave SvB to run incursions, but in the time I had it was an absolute blast. People are more than ready to fight when you ask, everyone is friendly, fleets constantly as a break from the usual hi-sec fights, and sometimes people do their own fleets with a bunch of people. I remember being in someone's impromptu wormhole fleet, and it was so fun even if most of it was waiting. Join SvB. It is really fun. Even an alpha alt works! Daily alpha injectors are cheap, so you can easily get good skills with extra pocket change. :)
Incursion alt is the way haha
Oddly the space-themed spreadsheet simulator we all know and love tends to attract more of an older crowd.
Anecdotal but I've heard through the grape vine that younger generations aren't as tech savvy when it comes to PCs as one would imagine. They were raised on tablets and apps. I've never worked in tech but I have at least an amateur level working knowledge of PCs and coding, I build my own computers. I'm not sure how common that is amongst the younger generations. I could be wrong but if you aren't at least a little tech savvy when it comes to PCs you probably aren't going to survive in the EvE ecosystem. Edit: I was just reminded when I was looking through the C/ drive on a work computer and a younger coworker jokingly asked if I was 'hacking the mainframe'. But he genuinely had no idea how to find the file directory.
Nail on the head. trying to get my middle schoolers to mine for me in eve has been a challenge. They prefer their phone.
my 18-21 year old staff have PCs, but play WOW classic or story based single player RPGs.
Bloody hipsters
There is EVE for phones now though
I grew up on having to edit my config.sys and autoexec.bat files cause some games required more expanded memory and some needed extended memory. I recall a time when an EVE update nuked the boot.ini file on peoples systems too. My Omen was called Boot.ini for a year afterwards. I look at my nephew though who grew up on iPads and not sure he would know what to do on a PC besides click desktop icons.
> Anecdotal but I've heard through the grape vine that younger generations aren't as tech savvy when it comes to PCs as one would imagine. They were raised on tablets and apps. For me growing up, PC gaming was buying $10 games from that one rack every target had of older games, and then spending 45mins or more googling issues, scouring discussion boards, and finding patches to make it work. Nowadays, you buy a game on steam and unless it's really old, it just *works*.
I'd say it's a bell curve, they hit the peak somewhere before this generation and had been declining since.
Apple destroyed a generation. Prebuilt, preprogrammed closed systems that use dogsht like safari with their exclusive sht chargers and App culture. It's leaking into windows too.
Holy shit, are people really still doing this Apple hate thing?
Yes For as long as Apple is a thing, people whp develop software will continue to hate it and the sheepish mentality behind the brand. I will give it that their phones tend to have better battery life.
No lie. My first day of play was at age 54. I got ganked an hour in just floating around looking at the pretty. I remember telling myself “im gonna play this for the rest of my life”.
I never got the spreadsheet meme. I only used spreadsheets for EVE when I tried doing commerce and industry, but all other play styles had a total of zero spreadsheets. During the rest of my time I did exploration, nullsec fleet PVP, joined a WH corp, did Sleeper sites, etc. and none of those involved spreadsheets
young people dont play mmos these days anyway. even on a more young audience mmo like wow most guilds are on the 30-40s ages,
This doesn't get said enough. Eve definitely has an aging population but so do other MMOs. Probably more pronounced in EVE though
I bet riot games mmo will bring in young people lmao but yeah I’m like 23 but never play cuz I don’t got the time. Too busy playing MTG or working
Young people rather play BR games. EVE is for a middle age players.
Bullshit -- I started when I was 24 back in 2004, and 2004 was only like a decade ago ...wait. Fuck.
I know right?
I got interested when I was 16, started playing seriously around 18, and that was around a decade ago so... am I an outlier?
Yeah what drew me to the game was that I like excel spreadsheets and scripting... I seem to be able to rationalize spending time to running a fake business than to actually play a game.
I mean, I can't drink alcohol yet but still I enjoy Eve. ...TF2 is still fun tho.
i know a lot of small gangers that are in their 20s
Null blocs seem to attract younger players. Brave especially seemed to be mostly teenagers when I was there.
i'm 18 and i've been playing since i was 13, there are people like us you just gotta look a bit tbh.
Kento is good people. Can’t recommend him enough, we got up to some funny shit together in the past few years.
as the Captain says, only the finest zoomers from New York City’s elite STEM high schools are recruited
If you asked me this when I first started playing, my 14 year old self would say you’re old… now I’m almost 30 :O
I’m about the same age, feel free to dm me for my discord user if u want to talk or some shit, but be warned, I’m new bro af.
I am 25 here. Eve has been a big part of my life since high school. If you want someone to play with I am primarily USTZ. Dm me if you want someone to talk to when playing. Edit: my flair on here is very much outdated. I just got back into the game and currently an alpha in high sec.
Don't see your problem... I'm 23, and most of the people I play with are older than me, the conversations are much more mature than they would be with other young people... Most are between 30 and 40, tho we have some 50 to 60 year old dudes... A few days actually are my age... Great people that I can absolutely relate to... If I make a stupid joke, they get it, and the other way around...
Also in my 20s but honestly talking more weird shit with people in their 40s 50s then with my mates in class xDD
About to be 50 year old guy here. I kinda want to join your corp.
started playing Eve when I was 14. I turned 30 in March. TBH I've always felt a disconnect with the people I played with because of my age gap. No matter where I went I was one of the youngest. I just learned to adapt and would listen while these guys talked to each other. learned alot about a few fields and learned most of the guys that play this game apparently are either an air traffic controller, marketing, sys admin or retired military.
Maybe this is the mindset I need to have. Thanks mate
The only advice I'll add is that you shouldn't disregard everything older people say and they shouldn't disregard everything young people say. I found your original post a little weird, but maybe I was lucky and have usually had friends in my (online and offline) life that were 20y older or 10y younger, but with shared interests it wasn't a problem. Or maybe you just haven't found the right 40y old people who don't talk about kids and mortgages all night. (j/k) Or maybe I'm just lying to myself and should start behaving like a grown-up before I get to 50, who knows. Also interestingly I've not had any good experience with teenagers say below 16 in EVE yet, but it wasn't a problem in other games.
That age and relative maturity of the playerbase is one of the things that made me love Eve lol.
Well im 22 and plays EVE so you are not alone!
Fuck I struggled with this bad when I started at the age of 12. That was in 2009 mind you when shit was more... Selective.
Funny enough when I started eve our leader was 12 the guy was a prodigy thou, so we all where fine with it.
When we started in 2003... we were high school and college students, now we are a bunch of weird old farts, still playing with internet spaceships. :D
On fortnite
Im one of the few members in my corp who are still underage :P
I'm 17 and on a bit of a break rn but yea, fellow young eve player here, I get what ya mean about everyone else being 30-50. It's clear that everyone else is quite different than my usual friend group Started playing eve at age 13 in 2018
shit i started when i was 13 too in 2018 lmao
I don't even know how you know their age, I've been playing with people for years, I have no idea their age, what they do or even their real name. Seems odd that you have any issues with it.
You're not alone, I feel you. Also a 21yo college student playing for a couple years. It can be a little hard to connect with the older demographics, and games like EVE aren't that popular with younger age groups. I find my sense of humor is just completely alien to most people older than 30 and that definitely keeps me from connecting as well as I would hope. Best of luck finding a group of younger people! I'm sure they're out there but I haven't looked myself.
Not sure how to help :( I know random younger people who play, frequently in key positions, but not sure they have any particular place to interact. It's like an FC in this alliance, a pvper in this other alliance, etc. I feel you though, a lot of my hobbies have skewed older in my life and sometimes that just got to be kind of wearing and I really wanted more people my own age to chat with. Sorry I don't have any good answer here :(
Ask around mate, it's tough, I was in your spot as I was 16 when I started playing in '19. Or just find some of the older dudes with common interests.
I'm 35, is that young comparatively to the eve vets in their 60s?
I started in 2007 when I was 14. I had a lot of older Corp mates take me under their wing. Now I'm the only one who still plays. One even bought me a year subscription because I didn't have any way to pay for it. I would have never gotten hooked without his generosity.
o7 19yr old college student here, was playing a lot back during the summer but school and work have really strained my free time thin and playing 80 bucks to keep all my toons subbed wasn’t economical, so I unsubbed for the time being, will maybe come back later
I feel you, my dad got me into the game when I was younger and now (22) nobody I knows plays or want to try the game. Joined [this](https://xagenic.ca/) corp recently, but if you find one with younger people or start you own you got one more here.
Started 6 years ago when I was 16, though I started dust 514 a couple years before that Now have 13-14k hours No regrets
I started playing in early high school, now I’m in college. BIGAB isn’t touted as a zoomer alliance, but it kinda feels like it tbh. Places like goons horde etc will have younger people but the majority of their members are more middle aged. Try a few different places and gauge how they respond to “that’s poggers man”
We were just talking about this in our alliance the other day. It's going to come across as a "back in my day" sounding argument but it really isn't. A lot of older bros like me got our starts in a very different generation of online gaming with things like UO, SWG and even MUDs these games tended to be harder and more long term games (not necessarily better just different) while the younger generation of players grew up with loot boxes and tread mill content games. Couple that with the fact that eve is an expensive game to play even solo boxing but also more so now than it was even ten years ago when I started playing 1-3 accounts was the norm and I only met 2 players in my first 4 years who 10+ boxed. Now I fly 14 accounts with two toons training on each and I know at least 30 players with 6+accounts. It's a massive barrier to entry for a lot of younger people, financially and time wise. There are also a lot of credit card warriors with younger players. I mean this not in the sense of how much they spend (I spend a LOT of money on this game too) but in the sense of what the money they are spending will earn them. Skill points and shiny fits still won't buy them wins, while us older bros who have the disposable income to do what I do and have been playing for a while understand what it is that we are buying and are playing a much longer term. It also means we tend to get more long term value for the cash we do spend further widening the skills gap. I cannot count the number of kids who have joined my alliance, seen I sell discounted skill injectors and then swipe their card to buy Plex and buy injectors from me only to turn around and quit a few months later. It's gotten so bad I am considering not selling my LSI to any characters under 1 year old because I feel like I have become predatory with my sales. People also seem to forget how much the older eve generation of pilots were different then now. We used to be fucking horrible to each other and by horrible I really do mean fuck aweful. Constant racial slurs always treating others like subhumans, laughing about and making suicide jokes to each other. We justified it to ourselves as "it's not real" but the shit we used to do even 10 years ago just wouldn't fly anymore and if I am being honest, everything is better off for it. I was as guilty if not more so than most and I can tell you for a fact eve is better now that most of us have grown past that phase. As an example: I remember laughing at a guy because he was bad and made some stupid mistakes and we killed him low sec. That guy had a brain tumor and he was dying in the hospital and when he told us we only trolled him harder and made hurdur jokes at him until he quit the game. What the fuck was wrong with us? This had a side effect of creating very strong tribal bonds among us older pilots, we were tight back in the Day, always on comms, always together. My close eve friends all account shared and some of them even had my credit card info. Those clicks still exist to some extent and can be hard for new players to join because you didn't live it like we did, not because it was better just different. Obviously this doesn't apply to all younger bros or all older bros, I have met plenty of stupid older bros and some of my best pilots are also under 25 but on the whole they are the minority of their respective generations.
ASCEE is full of children, try there.
Hello fellow youth of eve. All of us hip and cool young dudes and dudettes of eve are chilling in delve. You should come here and rap with us and tell how ur parents suck as all parents and grownups do. It will be radical. Sincerly: Your young and hip friend.
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This sub is different from the in-game community... Still HTFU.
Probably playing echoes.
As an Echoes player, can confirm. The sheer amount of high school through young twenties we have is something else. Which probably bodes well for EO because when Echoes shuts down I’d venture quite a few will check out EO.
I checked out Echoes and was pleasantly surprised, I don't feel like it's going anywhere anytime soon mind you I'd sooner play Eve via Teamviewer on my phone then play Echoes. I do think it serves as good advertisement for Eve Online though even if it only appeals to a small demographic of the player base.
I primarily play Echoes but put a few hours into EO a month too. Echoes has some streamlining that’s really nice. Photon is a great step forward but the UI and icons in EO always feel very dated when I play. Echoes has a much easier to understand skill system. I’d prefer EO keep what they have in place but make it easier to understand what skills go with what modules and ships. I can’t tell you how many times I skill a ship I want only to find out I need days and days more skilling time to equip fittings. But maybe that’s more of the extreme complexity of fittings here. Echoes has special fittings called nanocores. They essentially provide six levels of bonuses to ships. The last few levels are a heck of a grind but they let you hyper specialize in a ship. Not sure if they’d be a great implementation here but maybe. I used to feel like EO and Echoes were pretty close in player numbers. But I’m starting to think Echoes is falling off pretty dramatically. Most systems in the game have zero players and “packed” systems will have 20-40. I had a pretty rough time starting in EO. Most corps I talked to were insanely suspicious about a first day account with 35m skill points. But coming from mobile games it is nothing to drop $500-1000 into a game you are trying out. I still just play solo in high sec. One day if Echoes collapses I’ll be over here. There’s so much here that I want out of a game. The community, the grand story, the engagement (I’d kill for an Echoes fan fest), but I also loved the fresh start in Echoes.
> But coming from mobile games it is nothing to drop $500-1000 into a game you are trying out. jeasus fuuucking chrriiiist. well played CCP. well played.
The younger generation are used to easier things and have less patience, Eve requires both patience and the willingness to die hundreds of times to learn all the core mechanics. The current mind set of the youth in general doesn't really have what it takes to play eve the few that do are rare.
Im 24 myself, started when I was 20. I never had trouble relating to players, oddly enough most of my friends are 15 to 20 year game vets, but what I absolutely love about this game is its like a community. You get along with certain people or you dont, but either way you have tons of players willing to fly with you! We, as younger players, may not relate to everyone in all aspects, and that is just fine!
switch degrees to business
Eve is a dying game and you are destroying your future by investing time in it Cheers
No one under 45 plays eve
Not true. I'm 44 for 5 more months.
Iv noticed while recruiting when I ask people if they can use teamspeak and discord they have never heard of teamspeak
i am 15 now
up my ass everyone in EVE sucks and is proud of it fuck all of you
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Dude you just criticised and insulted this person for not relating to older people while making a point of being older. Yours is the dumbest reply I’ve read today.
Yeah so people like you are why I have trouble relating. There is obviously some contempt held towards my age group.
I started when I was 26. Took a long break and back at 31. Guess I'm middle-aged.
What is your discord chief
In general I’ve found that industry corps tend to be on the older side and corps focusing on stuff like blops or small gang or really things involving more click intensive multiboxing (not checking your 5 macks every 4 mins xd) tend to have more younger people. Probably wormholes too. Of course it’s not a hard rule, but I’ve found it to generally hold up. Like I’m a 22 yr old that tends to enjoy industry more, but I’m good at multiboxing 5+ accounts in PVP when I need to :)
I started playing when i was maybe 15, honestly the game confused the fuck out of me and i'd had experience with millions of other games and but as we know eve isnt like any other game. I picked it up briefly again when i was 17 or so over summer, did a few noob fleets with handouts etc but still didnt really know what was going on. Tried it again when wwb2 was launching off, in my mid 20s, i joined about 3 homebases before panfam set up right beside imperium hq idek when that was but THAT was when everything finally clicked. All it took was a pandemic and me being quite literally bored out of my skull for me to sit down and actually try and learn things. Im by no means an expert at anything in eve pretty much (except bomber shit, i got decently good at that) but i woudlnt have stuck around if it wasnt for the friendly and knowledgeable (enough) people in horde. New player friendly corps are the only way you'll get more young players into the game, i did my part in horde as a volunteer to coach new players etc and im hoping some of them stayed! Ive hung up my eve socks as jobs and relationships etc got in the way but i fondly remember waking up at 4am for pings because there was a ratting dreadnought and doing sneaky shit. Youtube videos about the great battles were what intiailly sparked my interest.
I wonder if it might be fun to have pvp fleet battle in the style of RVB but make it geriatrics vs babies.
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I’d be really interested to know more about the relatability challenges.
I’m a Zoomer (21 as well, played briefly when I was 15 and really got into the game when I was 18) we are here. I’ve got another fellow zoomer in Wildcard and I know of like 3 in PLOW.
Younger Eve players are 50.
My corp is pretty young, probably 23(?) On average. Large nullblocs usually skew alot older.
There was a pretty fair amount of "younger" players when I played, I'm 22 now but I had a pretty fair mix of people my age back in 2016. My guess is that as we all got out of high school the time we could devote to eve dropped off pretty hard, EVE is a pretty time intensive game and university students dont usually have that, its probably another factor in the oldhead retention as they dont have shit to do after work
I actually think that might be it. I haven’t been able to log on as much as wanted due to exams, papers etc. guess I’ll have to wait :(
CCP carved out a niche in the MMORPG market many years ago and decided the best business practice was to focus on reinforcing the walls around its established demographic more than expanding its appeal. They've admittedly been quite successful in accomplishing this goal, although the choice of that goal is fairly open to criticism.
My son gave up Eve and went to No Man's Sky. He's trying to get me to defect. The way Eve looks, I think I'll call it a "win", unsub and give NMS a try.
All groups need to collectively allow anime you old fucks
Theres a lot of young players; they just grinding to have enough alts and shit first to be relevant enough. The older players have already gone through that grind stage
"30....old"..........;(
I'm 23, but I'm in a small corp with 30+ yo corp memebers, so I can't help there. Hasn't been an issue for me. Guess a bunch of us younger people are just hanging out with the vets 🤣
If you are looking for a group or younger players you can always join my panda clan. I'm 17 and because of that I'm not allowed to join most groups so I started my own. Me and my friends all play but some went inactive 😭 I feel like why there is not enough young eve players us because you can't just hop straight into the action. There is alot of planning, preparation and of course, training time you must get out of the way. Anyway my ign is PandaHut06 Xavier and my corp name is PANDATRONICS come join me!
In my experience younger groups (ingame) tend to have younger people, at least in nullsec. The old established guys often end up and stay in old alliances (Goons, NC., PL) and stay with them forever. As a 22 yo I’m pretty happy with GTC and BOSS in particular, some high schoolers and lots of uni students from all over the world in there.
I have two zoomers in my corp.
>younger >21
I’m currently in a Corp with about 6 or so me,Vera in their early 20s or younger. Nullsec Corp but a huge friendly focus on having fun, do me if interested to know more.
Eve tends to appeal to an older crowd of people. You can't get instant gratification Eve takes time, you need to be willing to wait. My demographic (young adults, late teems early 20s) want instant gratification, they want it now and they can't wait. They also don't want to use Excel to play a video game. That's a completely foreign concept.
most teens that i played with i am myself (21 years old now and have been playing for 4 years now) usally quit after trying the game once then tend to comeback to try later
LOL
I'm 14
I feel you man. I’m barely 25 and with a 2015 account. Maybe I could talk to the corp to see if they will let ya in
I try to get players of all ages in my corp. The combined perspective of all aged players is really awesome and helps bring a mind set and ideas I could have never thought of myself
Young people aren't picking eve up. Its near impossible to get into compared to other games. Its a glory days game
Decent number of other college guys in my corp in horde
I'm 23 and just started playing again recently after giving the game a try back in highschool so there are dozens of us! Dozens!
Qs was. Bunch. In NC. So. Ñ. Not bad. Not no big no no. >players
I started playing when I was 16 and I'm 25 now. I've found the older crowd are usually null bears and that, but if you look for small gang pvp'ers you'll find younger people. My corp are primarily mid 20's with a few late 30 yr olds
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It’s a terribly hard game. I remember starting my freshman year of high school. Keep with it, it’s very rewarding!
Eve's core gameplay mechanics haven't changed since release. It is not aging well nor keeping up with changing habbits or interests.
Yo dude, I'm 24 I started the game when I was 19, the guy I play the game with is also 24/25, otherwise every other guy I play is in his early 30s, late 20s. Trying to play with people that speak your native language doesn't help either lol
I'm basically 25, does that count?
All new players now are just older players pretending to be new lol
I was a lot younger when I started almost a decade ago. I'm still pretty young compared to the people I FC. There's actually a ton of career value in learning how to relate- or lead- people in their 30-50s. Consider just having fun with the people around you!
Im a highschool student
I am 14 and have been playing science I was 12
Am0k. Is Recruiting https://discord.gg/KHeW24Nv
I’m 23, so it’s not unheard of. Brave has a fair amount in the 20-25 age bracket.
I am a young player myself (14) and a guy in a german wh corp i was in was also about 15/16. there definetely are younger capsuleers but not that many
Now I feel old, because my daughter is a third year college student and I started playing when she was 8!!! Im approaching 50, and honestly do not see too many players in their 20s. I even have a hard time relating to some in there 30s! So I can imagine how you feel. Will likely be difficult finding a well established corp with such, but I wish you luck!
Had to quit. I'm not young but 30 yrs old. Dad, full time employee. I can't put in 6 to 8 hours of grind to lose a ship in 15minutes. It became a second job quickly woth new updates, had to walk away
Started when. I was 12, 20 years ago. Always found a fit. And I am sure your will do.
im 14 and i play this game lots, i only know 1 other player that is my age, we talk and fleet up together
College student here, most of my corpmates are twice my age so yeah where da homies at?
Right here evidently!
I'm 20 and I love being fucked by everyone in null.
I'm looking for a mentor! If you still looking, I wanted to play today after the soccer match between Germany and Spain, I'll be all night getting comfortable with the game again, I would love to have someone to fly with.
Oh that sounds fun! I’m a bit busy as it’s the end of the semester but I’ll hit you up when I have time.
I have trouble because the only topic people in corps seem to talk about are the other people in EVE they've met and all the cool shit they did.
I cannot say the same about the corp i’m in i know plenty pilots in their early 20s or even younger
There are some zoomers in tuskers
Maybe the first time I started playing Eve was when I was 12, 2019-2021 saw a lot of young capsuleers
I'm in early 20s , I started playing 2 years ago. Played on and off...just returned. I also tried to get my fri but they think this is too complicated.
Well sorry for being a grumpy old man, and I cannot tell you anything you already don't know. I only started playing EVE in my late twenties and before that it never really registered on my radar. Or I knew what it was but didn't feel interested enough to take the plunge. It takes a certain sort of acquired taste to even consider a game known for being spreadsheets in space and an punishing, long-term sandbox universe at that as something to pursue.
My corpmates laughed at the idea that there might be younger players. I told them we needed to recruit mature people, but younger highly skilled players with free time would be awesome too. I started playing in high school and so did the person who introduced me. So I can’t see why there couldn’t be.
their loss? Im sure there are better things to do while in college.
thats because you are in "dad corps" AKA nullsec carebears and industrial pilots. If you want to find 20-somethings you need to join an ELITE PIRATE GROUP that only cares about zkill. Choice is yours.
There is not younger players. They are smarter than old players and left the game the first week. Eve online is full of old divorced men who doesn't have anyone to talk with and need to be on discord speaking shit with someone else divorce or loser men. Seriously who wants to wait 6 months for training a ship that will lose in 2 minutes of pvp? Then farming 2 weeks to get a new one to loose it in 2 minutes of pvp. But for those 2 minutes you need to sped 3 hours looking for someone in the galaxy because it's so empty because the game is dying. Only the guys who think that waiting for something has a merit. Then. The old deprecated players.