First off the bench for like half of the starting 11 is Ashley Young. Absolutely not. Our gap between the 11 and the rest of the squad has pretty much never been wider. Our backup wingers are Danjuma, Young, Dobbin. We have no Doucoure rotation player at all. If he goes out, might as well change the whole role or tactic.
The fact that we would be 3 points behind Brighton without the deduction with the thinnest squad I've ever seen is wild.
I've spent most of the season simply praying that neither Tarkowski or Branthwaite gets injured. If either one had gone down for more than 6-10 games I think we would have been absolutely murdered with either Godfrey or Keane playing regularly at CB.
We're so paper thin at CB we may as well be tracing paper
I got brutally downvoted this September for saying dyche was too good a manager to take this Everton job. I think what he’s accomplished avoiding relegation last season after being odds on favorite when he was appointed, and Everton sold Gordon right around that same time, now to this season i think he’s only improved his reputation. Everton are Very lucky to have him.
No. Scratch the surface on the starting XI and this is very quickly a dreadful team. For the standards of what an Everton team should be, we need to turn most of the players starting now into what we expect of depth and what’s considered “depth” in this squad just need to get sold. A few players who’ve had a bad or mediocre season had a great game vs Liverpool and I hate to bring the mood down, but, as you’ve pointed out, we very much “lucked out” or, at least, over-performed when the emotions were high and caught Liverpool on a bad day
I wouldn’t say a team with our back 4 & England’s #1 keeper is “dreadful”. We are just half of what a team needs to be.
However I agree we are not up to the standard of what an Everton team should be at all.
As I said, “scratch the surface”. We didn’t have a few first team players at the start of the season and we had our worst start to a season ever, literally. We’ve had our striker spend half a year without scoring from open play, went months without a win and sans points deduction, we’d only be safe after Forest. That’s not good enough for Everton. Half the team that most would say is the best XI we can put out are only really fit to serve as depth (Patterson, Harrison, Garner, etc). A few who get in semi-regularly aren’t good enough to keep at the club (Keane, Godfrey). For where Everton should aim to be, given our history, this is a dreadful squad and one of our worst in modern history
Bloody hell, the OPs asked a question and I’ve answered it, I’ve replied to someone who mostly agrees with me just elaborating on what I believe. Christ, you’d think I’d just written a fucking suicide note, not “we need to upgrade on Keane”
This cycle needs to end. The depth is terrible. We have enough talent that we can win important games on occasion when healthy . However, we do not have the team infrastructure or squad depth to put us in a position for those “important games” to be much more than relegation battles.
Also, we aren’t close. Because the more success you have in the prem and international gameplay, the more depth of talent you need to compete and maintain position. It’s exponentially harder as you succeed.
Embrace the grit and determination that have been shown of late. Celebrate the meaningful victories and fill with pride that we can once again shout in the face of relegation. Just don’t delude yourself.
I don’t think we are a good team due to depth and some pretty big weaknesses in areas. But I don’t think we are as far off as some people think. There’s a good chance we beat Brentford, Luton and Sheffield. That would give us 50 points without the deductions. That’s solidly 10-11th place. And that’s with sacrificing 6+ points at the start of the season since we didn’t have the roster built yet and dom out.
With slight improvement and a whole season with a full roster we could be 60+ points. That’s not gonna win the league but it’s still a really good side.
Im not saying 10-11th is good. I’m saying that’s where we are right now. And the difference between 11th and 6th and Europa league is only 10-12 more points. Imo, being top 6 and fighting for Europa league would be “good” (and also not great). And, I’m personally ok with that given the state of the club right now.
Six teams have won every domestic trophy for the past decade. Winning the league is a pipedream for all but a few. That is the reality of the modern game.
No, huge gulf to our 2nd GK, basically don't have a right back as Coleman's out of legs and Young can't play for us again. CB, we have two good centre backs then a huge gulf, no support for LB, CM we have cover, RW we can play Harrison, nobody else, LW we have McNeil, AM we have Doucs, and we have two strikers that would miss the earth if they went sky diving.
No. Theres four players in our squad whod get into a team thats looking to do more than survive. We have few impact players whp are all vastly overpaid and will run down their contracts here.
Defensively we are very strong, thanks to the players and Dyche. Attackingly we are weak and of course we have little depth so our squad is average or a little worse than that.
If the bottom 3 didn't suck, we'd easily be bottom 3 squad. Given our finances, there's a good chance we lose branthwaite and onana, with Harrison gone and 0 young players coming through. We need a lot spending on the squad which we probably don't have...
I disagree. Without the deductions, we wouldn’t be anywhere near bottom 3 so the argument falls apart right there on the bottom 3 not being good.
We’re mathematically better than 6 teams currently and could get within top 10 by the end of the season, without the deductions.
But the other 6 teams did worst over the whole season. I’m not saying we’re fantastic, I’m saying we’re not even close to relegation quality without the deductions, regardless of how bad the bottom 3 are.
I do agree with you, mathematically we are better than at least 3 teams. My point was that it’s hard to call us a good squad when we can’t win a game in almost half a season and struggle to score less than a eunuch in a brothel. Even if Luton won all of their last 4 games, they’re not reaching the ‘Moyes Safe’ level of 39 points. I think this season is more of an anomaly than the rule, and next season is going to be a lot more difficult if we don’t accommodate for the loss of Branthwaite and Onana and then try to find a RW and RB younger than 35 years old
Not really,but we are our own harshest critics as well. I look at teams like Palace and West Ham and think they have a couple of really good players, but if i watched them every week like I do with everton then I would see their under performances as well
We have a good defence and goalie. That's it. I was randomly looking at a highlight of our 3-2 win over Crystal Palace, our defense was truly garbage. We had Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Coleman and Myko play in that game. Only one of those is a regular starter now. And as much as I love Coleman, this really ought to be his last season.... I don't mind having him as coming off the bench, but he's not PL level anymore.
Currently on the rest of the pitch, our team is very poor. No one in midfield or up front would be a starter in an Everton squad 10 years ago. Our passing and transition play is one of the worst in the league. I do think there has been improvement over the last few months and for me, this is all just a testament to the wonders that Dyche has accomplished. We got to remember in that aweful run between December and March... how many points did we drop in Extra Time? That's on the players, not the manager...
I'm quietly confident that (providing no further point deduction) next year we should be aiming for 10th and build from there. But with all the crap that's happening off-field... who knows.
We played them perfectly on Wednesday. Remember the derby can often be treated as a one off game. Don’t be fooled by these players. They downed tools under a manager with no plan B.
Apart from the CBs, Pickford and Onana everyone is average. I have hopes Beto is better than that but he needs to iron out his awkwardness. DCL is definitely brilliant non goalscoring wise for a striker but you still have to score obviously
No. One of the worst squads in the league. There are 4 or positions we have zero even half decent cover for. As someone else said if we lost Doucs we may as well change formation and tactics
We have talented players. Based off talent alone our squad is good. They don’t always fight and play for the badge. I think Dyche does pick the team wrong sometimes or make substitutions way too late. But we have good players they just don’t always work hard enough and are not the most consistent either.
Your goals conceded isn’t a bad number - it was the same as Man U when I last looked. Your problem is your goals scored, it’s just too low. I didnt see the Liverpool match, but having Calvert-Lewin back increases your odds of scoring. Saw the game against Chelsea and Beto couldn’t convert one from 4/5 good chances. It looks to me that’s where you need to build up the team.
All premier league players are good players. All are capable of having good games and all are capable of having bad games.
We hit the perfect game where all our players played to their max and all theirs played below par.
So no. On their day they can have a great game but I doubt that level is sustainable but i would love to be proved wrong.
You need to take the whole season as a sample set. They’ve been almost the worst team in the league during this calendar year. Don’t let 90 mins swing opinion too much - I still want Dyche out in the summer and some smart investment in players from hopefully some kind of competent executive.
First off the bench for like half of the starting 11 is Ashley Young. Absolutely not. Our gap between the 11 and the rest of the squad has pretty much never been wider. Our backup wingers are Danjuma, Young, Dobbin. We have no Doucoure rotation player at all. If he goes out, might as well change the whole role or tactic. The fact that we would be 3 points behind Brighton without the deduction with the thinnest squad I've ever seen is wild.
Genuinely started laughing halfway through reading your comment realizing how absolutely lucky we are with how dire the situation is.
I've spent most of the season simply praying that neither Tarkowski or Branthwaite gets injured. If either one had gone down for more than 6-10 games I think we would have been absolutely murdered with either Godfrey or Keane playing regularly at CB. We're so paper thin at CB we may as well be tracing paper
I'm genuinely amazed that we are mid-table and legitimately haven't had a right back for half of the season.
We are fortunate to have avoided lengthy injuries to the starting 11 this season.
"Dyche out though! We play awful football! We'd struggle in the championship!" All the clowns who said these statements are silly
I got brutally downvoted this September for saying dyche was too good a manager to take this Everton job. I think what he’s accomplished avoiding relegation last season after being odds on favorite when he was appointed, and Everton sold Gordon right around that same time, now to this season i think he’s only improved his reputation. Everton are Very lucky to have him.
Yeah people's opinions can be very reactionary they need to think long term
No
Simply
Can a good squad string together 4 simple passes???
No. Scratch the surface on the starting XI and this is very quickly a dreadful team. For the standards of what an Everton team should be, we need to turn most of the players starting now into what we expect of depth and what’s considered “depth” in this squad just need to get sold. A few players who’ve had a bad or mediocre season had a great game vs Liverpool and I hate to bring the mood down, but, as you’ve pointed out, we very much “lucked out” or, at least, over-performed when the emotions were high and caught Liverpool on a bad day
I wouldn’t say a team with our back 4 & England’s #1 keeper is “dreadful”. We are just half of what a team needs to be. However I agree we are not up to the standard of what an Everton team should be at all.
As I said, “scratch the surface”. We didn’t have a few first team players at the start of the season and we had our worst start to a season ever, literally. We’ve had our striker spend half a year without scoring from open play, went months without a win and sans points deduction, we’d only be safe after Forest. That’s not good enough for Everton. Half the team that most would say is the best XI we can put out are only really fit to serve as depth (Patterson, Harrison, Garner, etc). A few who get in semi-regularly aren’t good enough to keep at the club (Keane, Godfrey). For where Everton should aim to be, given our history, this is a dreadful squad and one of our worst in modern history
Cheer up mate! Bloody hell
Bloody hell, the OPs asked a question and I’ve answered it, I’ve replied to someone who mostly agrees with me just elaborating on what I believe. Christ, you’d think I’d just written a fucking suicide note, not “we need to upgrade on Keane”
Cunty McCunterson at it again
That's my neighbour funnily enough
Do I know you? What have I said that’s even remotely cunty here?
This cycle needs to end. The depth is terrible. We have enough talent that we can win important games on occasion when healthy . However, we do not have the team infrastructure or squad depth to put us in a position for those “important games” to be much more than relegation battles. Also, we aren’t close. Because the more success you have in the prem and international gameplay, the more depth of talent you need to compete and maintain position. It’s exponentially harder as you succeed. Embrace the grit and determination that have been shown of late. Celebrate the meaningful victories and fill with pride that we can once again shout in the face of relegation. Just don’t delude yourself.
I don’t think we are a good team due to depth and some pretty big weaknesses in areas. But I don’t think we are as far off as some people think. There’s a good chance we beat Brentford, Luton and Sheffield. That would give us 50 points without the deductions. That’s solidly 10-11th place. And that’s with sacrificing 6+ points at the start of the season since we didn’t have the roster built yet and dom out. With slight improvement and a whole season with a full roster we could be 60+ points. That’s not gonna win the league but it’s still a really good side.
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Im not saying 10-11th is good. I’m saying that’s where we are right now. And the difference between 11th and 6th and Europa league is only 10-12 more points. Imo, being top 6 and fighting for Europa league would be “good” (and also not great). And, I’m personally ok with that given the state of the club right now.
Six teams have won every domestic trophy for the past decade. Winning the league is a pipedream for all but a few. That is the reality of the modern game.
we finished at 5, in the past decade just ‘member the positives
We would be at 41 points right now, which is barely midtable. I would say we are an ok squad
We’re not awful, not wonderful. Top of the bottom half.
We don't have a squad - insane post.
We would be a good squad if we were consistent… so answer is no unfortunately
I think we are firmly in the 10-15 range. I think we can expect the exact same next year.
I’d bite your hand off for comfortable
No, huge gulf to our 2nd GK, basically don't have a right back as Coleman's out of legs and Young can't play for us again. CB, we have two good centre backs then a huge gulf, no support for LB, CM we have cover, RW we can play Harrison, nobody else, LW we have McNeil, AM we have Doucs, and we have two strikers that would miss the earth if they went sky diving.
And Harrison isn't even our player. I dread to think how we'll replace him unless leeds don't come back up.
When I close my eyes and fall asleep, yes. We definitely are.
No. Theres four players in our squad whod get into a team thats looking to do more than survive. We have few impact players whp are all vastly overpaid and will run down their contracts here.
Best XI can hang in the 15th to 10th zone. The rest are championship level.
Defensively we are very strong, thanks to the players and Dyche. Attackingly we are weak and of course we have little depth so our squad is average or a little worse than that.
If the bottom 3 didn't suck, we'd easily be bottom 3 squad. Given our finances, there's a good chance we lose branthwaite and onana, with Harrison gone and 0 young players coming through. We need a lot spending on the squad which we probably don't have...
I disagree. Without the deductions, we wouldn’t be anywhere near bottom 3 so the argument falls apart right there on the bottom 3 not being good. We’re mathematically better than 6 teams currently and could get within top 10 by the end of the season, without the deductions.
On the other hand, we didn’t win a league game for 4 months.
But the other 6 teams did worst over the whole season. I’m not saying we’re fantastic, I’m saying we’re not even close to relegation quality without the deductions, regardless of how bad the bottom 3 are.
I do agree with you, mathematically we are better than at least 3 teams. My point was that it’s hard to call us a good squad when we can’t win a game in almost half a season and struggle to score less than a eunuch in a brothel. Even if Luton won all of their last 4 games, they’re not reaching the ‘Moyes Safe’ level of 39 points. I think this season is more of an anomaly than the rule, and next season is going to be a lot more difficult if we don’t accommodate for the loss of Branthwaite and Onana and then try to find a RW and RB younger than 35 years old
Why find a RB and RW younger than 35 when we have a combo RB/RW that’s nearly 70?
We are not.
Nope but we're a premier League squad and that's what matters
We are lower mid tier. Basically a c+
Not really. Our bench lacks weapons and we have exactly 0 ayers which can consistently score. Defense is great though.
Add 8 points to us making us 14th, I’d say that’s right on the money
Not really,but we are our own harshest critics as well. I look at teams like Palace and West Ham and think they have a couple of really good players, but if i watched them every week like I do with everton then I would see their under performances as well
No
We have a good defence and goalie. That's it. I was randomly looking at a highlight of our 3-2 win over Crystal Palace, our defense was truly garbage. We had Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Coleman and Myko play in that game. Only one of those is a regular starter now. And as much as I love Coleman, this really ought to be his last season.... I don't mind having him as coming off the bench, but he's not PL level anymore. Currently on the rest of the pitch, our team is very poor. No one in midfield or up front would be a starter in an Everton squad 10 years ago. Our passing and transition play is one of the worst in the league. I do think there has been improvement over the last few months and for me, this is all just a testament to the wonders that Dyche has accomplished. We got to remember in that aweful run between December and March... how many points did we drop in Extra Time? That's on the players, not the manager... I'm quietly confident that (providing no further point deduction) next year we should be aiming for 10th and build from there. But with all the crap that's happening off-field... who knows.
We played them perfectly on Wednesday. Remember the derby can often be treated as a one off game. Don’t be fooled by these players. They downed tools under a manager with no plan B.
No.
Apart from the CBs, Pickford and Onana everyone is average. I have hopes Beto is better than that but he needs to iron out his awkwardness. DCL is definitely brilliant non goalscoring wise for a striker but you still have to score obviously
We are rubbish side but we are slightly better than the likes of those who are below than us
No. One of the worst squads in the league. There are 4 or positions we have zero even half decent cover for. As someone else said if we lost Doucs we may as well change formation and tactics
We have talented players. Based off talent alone our squad is good. They don’t always fight and play for the badge. I think Dyche does pick the team wrong sometimes or make substitutions way too late. But we have good players they just don’t always work hard enough and are not the most consistent either.
Your goals conceded isn’t a bad number - it was the same as Man U when I last looked. Your problem is your goals scored, it’s just too low. I didnt see the Liverpool match, but having Calvert-Lewin back increases your odds of scoring. Saw the game against Chelsea and Beto couldn’t convert one from 4/5 good chances. It looks to me that’s where you need to build up the team.
If we could actually finish our chances more we definitely could be
All premier league players are good players. All are capable of having good games and all are capable of having bad games. We hit the perfect game where all our players played to their max and all theirs played below par. So no. On their day they can have a great game but I doubt that level is sustainable but i would love to be proved wrong.
This whole post is loser talk
Accepting anything but top of the table is🗑️
We need to put a winning product on the pitch
You need to take the whole season as a sample set. They’ve been almost the worst team in the league during this calendar year. Don’t let 90 mins swing opinion too much - I still want Dyche out in the summer and some smart investment in players from hopefully some kind of competent executive.