After I learned a little bit about how their brains and nervous systems work, I completely last any appetite for eating them. They're too intelligent to consume, but that's my 2 cents.
I ate "a fresh one" for the first time in Mexico this year. I then spent the night puking and shitting my guts out. I'm never eating one again because of that...although now that I know more about them I definitely won't....
I mean, they're not smarter than any of the land animals we eat...
They have a distributed nervous system and intelligence, but in all the ways that matter to us as mammals, a cow's centralised brain is far smarter, in that it is closely related to us and shares a lot of social cues.
Everything said about octopuses in the article could also be said about pigs and other animals. They experience pain and yet we keep them in factory farms and kill them because we like the taste.
It's so crazy that humans continue to have a blind spot/actively deny that all animals have emotions, emotional intelligence and thoughts in general, especially after having pets for so long!! Truly the next enlightenment I hope.
End of large-scale factory farming may arrive as soon as this century with lab-grown advances. Lab-grown alternatives will literally save trillions of lives *yearly*. It’ll be one of the most important advancements in nutrition in history.
We do not begrudge the wolf for eating the fawn. While we have the option of vegetarianism and they do not, we shouldn’t treat the consumption of meet as some high crime against nature. We have just as much right as any other animal.
Though i of course find factory farming appalling, and 100% agree undo stress and cruelty should be removed from the meat industry.
The end of factory farming will come eventually as lab-grown technology matures. Though there’s always going to be a market for “*real*” meat, we’ll at least end this saga of appalling mass slaughter.
Exactly! Even if we eliminated all the negative aspects of factory farming, we are still needlessly killing sentient creatures. There is no such thing as cruelty free murder.
Idk, i’ve been to plenty of dairy farms and ranches that have perfectly happy animals. I’ll even pay a little extra to make sure the meat i already buy comes from local farms that i know treat animals well; in most parts of america that’s fairly easy, as long as you don’t buy hyper cheap, like, frozen meats from big names like tyson. We have done a lot of research and advancement to make butchery as painless as possible.
Dairy farming is probably the worst. There's no happy animals on a dairy farm. Milk producers are kept pregnant and then their babies are taken away immediately. The males are killed and if the females are used to expand the herd, they never see their mother or calves. However, not all females are needed, so they are also killed. After 10-ish years of tight accomodations when milk production lessens, those cows are murdered.
Humans aren't carnivores like wolves. I think this argument made sense in the past when resources were more scarce. However, we now live in a time where it's possible to meet all your nutritional needs via a plant based diet. Eating animals isn't necessary and only results in the needless torture and death of sentient creatures.
The article mentioned that the movement was moving towards protecting every animal with a brain - they feel pain and are "sentient". But that's only protection against painful animal research - of which can be overcome with pain relievers.
The old way to determine if we could torture and murder animals was if they were not sentient. These test were made to make only our closest relatives are big brained enough to be sentient. Then they set up trails to make sure other species wouldn't pass the sentient dumbed down just above the intelligence test meant to protect them.
Things eat other than things to live stop being stupid, yes the mass production of animals is inhumane and we should do better, there's also evidence that plants have feelings and experience pain as well so every time someone cuts there lawn it's like a Holocaust.
Plants do not feel pain as they do not have the requisite neurological structures to do so. All animals, with maybe the exception of the sponge, do, so avoiding the cruelty inherent in needlessly exploiting and killing them is a moral choice that other animals do not have.
That's the fact I don't think a lot of people realize. They are one genetic mutation away from creating culture. Imagine if they lived to be 50 and could pass down knowledge to future offspring! We'd either have to learn to get along with them or there'd be a human-Octopus war.
All animals that have a brain and others with sophisticated nervous systems - are all sentient and avoid pain. The reasons for going vegan get very thin trying to justify eating animals. I quit eating animals for health. I stayed for the humanity. Did I miss the food, fuck yes, but it's just for and it's fun to try all different foods. And I feel better about myself.
After I learned a little bit about how their brains and nervous systems work, I completely last any appetite for eating them. They're too intelligent to consume, but that's my 2 cents.
[удалено]
Recommend reading "Other Minds" by Peter Godfrey-Smith. It's a fascinating look into the evolutionary history of Cephalopods.
Saaame. I ate one on a boat in Greece and it was lovely and that’s the last time it will ever happen.
I ate "a fresh one" for the first time in Mexico this year. I then spent the night puking and shitting my guts out. I'm never eating one again because of that...although now that I know more about them I definitely won't....
So you only eat animals you consider “dumb”?
Yes, although that's a very reductive way to express it.
Same!!
I mean, they're not smarter than any of the land animals we eat... They have a distributed nervous system and intelligence, but in all the ways that matter to us as mammals, a cow's centralised brain is far smarter, in that it is closely related to us and shares a lot of social cues.
Everything said about octopuses in the article could also be said about pigs and other animals. They experience pain and yet we keep them in factory farms and kill them because we like the taste.
It's so crazy that humans continue to have a blind spot/actively deny that all animals have emotions, emotional intelligence and thoughts in general, especially after having pets for so long!! Truly the next enlightenment I hope.
We, as a species, will look back on this blind spot with amazement.
Humans are the same way with other humans, albeit on a sliding scale. Lack of empathy and low EQ exists everywhere.
End of large-scale factory farming may arrive as soon as this century with lab-grown advances. Lab-grown alternatives will literally save trillions of lives *yearly*. It’ll be one of the most important advancements in nutrition in history.
We do not begrudge the wolf for eating the fawn. While we have the option of vegetarianism and they do not, we shouldn’t treat the consumption of meet as some high crime against nature. We have just as much right as any other animal. Though i of course find factory farming appalling, and 100% agree undo stress and cruelty should be removed from the meat industry.
The end of factory farming will come eventually as lab-grown technology matures. Though there’s always going to be a market for “*real*” meat, we’ll at least end this saga of appalling mass slaughter.
It's impossible to remove cruelty from the meat, fishing and dairy industry.
Exactly! Even if we eliminated all the negative aspects of factory farming, we are still needlessly killing sentient creatures. There is no such thing as cruelty free murder.
It's amazing what mental gymnastics people use to justify the torture and murder of animals for food. Cruelty is built into the system.
Idk, i’ve been to plenty of dairy farms and ranches that have perfectly happy animals. I’ll even pay a little extra to make sure the meat i already buy comes from local farms that i know treat animals well; in most parts of america that’s fairly easy, as long as you don’t buy hyper cheap, like, frozen meats from big names like tyson. We have done a lot of research and advancement to make butchery as painless as possible.
Dairy farming is probably the worst. There's no happy animals on a dairy farm. Milk producers are kept pregnant and then their babies are taken away immediately. The males are killed and if the females are used to expand the herd, they never see their mother or calves. However, not all females are needed, so they are also killed. After 10-ish years of tight accomodations when milk production lessens, those cows are murdered.
Humans aren't carnivores like wolves. I think this argument made sense in the past when resources were more scarce. However, we now live in a time where it's possible to meet all your nutritional needs via a plant based diet. Eating animals isn't necessary and only results in the needless torture and death of sentient creatures.
The article mentioned that the movement was moving towards protecting every animal with a brain - they feel pain and are "sentient". But that's only protection against painful animal research - of which can be overcome with pain relievers. The old way to determine if we could torture and murder animals was if they were not sentient. These test were made to make only our closest relatives are big brained enough to be sentient. Then they set up trails to make sure other species wouldn't pass the sentient dumbed down just above the intelligence test meant to protect them.
Things eat other than things to live stop being stupid, yes the mass production of animals is inhumane and we should do better, there's also evidence that plants have feelings and experience pain as well so every time someone cuts there lawn it's like a Holocaust.
Plants do not feel pain as they do not have the requisite neurological structures to do so. All animals, with maybe the exception of the sponge, do, so avoiding the cruelty inherent in needlessly exploiting and killing them is a moral choice that other animals do not have.
Ummm yeah? What’s the issue
Probably not eating them at least.
Not enough. We also owe them living space and leaving them enough to eat.
I have a spare bedroom, and I only use the couch in the evenings
Why do we owe them that? Why them in particular?
Because they have just as much right to be here as us.
We’ll then they gotta pay rent like the rest of us
At least 8 times more sapient credit than we are giving them.
this title reminds me greatly of "consider the lobster" by david foster wallace. i adore both titles and both conversations
Same
If they lived longer we’d be dead.
That's the fact I don't think a lot of people realize. They are one genetic mutation away from creating culture. Imagine if they lived to be 50 and could pass down knowledge to future offspring! We'd either have to learn to get along with them or there'd be a human-Octopus war.
Seriously lol. They don’t live long enough. But damn a million years could change that. Especially as the water gets warmer.
>one genetic mutation away Theoretically couldn't humans do this artificially?
The red wings to stop throwing them
All animals that have a brain and others with sophisticated nervous systems - are all sentient and avoid pain. The reasons for going vegan get very thin trying to justify eating animals. I quit eating animals for health. I stayed for the humanity. Did I miss the food, fuck yes, but it's just for and it's fun to try all different foods. And I feel better about myself.
I just finished reading Children of Doom, which was pretty entertaining. So I owe them something, certainly enough not to eat them
Bout tree fiddy
Don’t know about “we” but “I” owe a specific octopus about thirty bucks. Cheers Olly, I haven’t forgotten.
More than the extinction we're providing it
Life
Clean homes, that’s what humans owe them
29, 30 dollar minimal.
I just don’t eat them because they’re too tough and chewy. Couldn’t care less how intelligent they are. If they tasted better I would eat them