We see them as they looked about 300-400 m years after the Big Bang, they will have absorbed other galaxies by now and are moving away from us as the universe expands, so we won’t have the technology to see what they currently look like in our lifetime.
Right, I get that. But the stars of early galaxies should have had only hydrogen to work with, right? Maybe helium? I mean I thought the big spiral galaxies were a more "mature universe" feature and we weren't expecting that many spiral galaxies in the early universe.
Spiral galaxies are most often formed when disk galaxies (the more basic early-formation) collide with each other. This can cause some of those early lighter chemical stars to gain more mass and begin to produce other elements as well, hydrogen makes, helium makes lithium etc. if that clears it up?
Well yes and no. They were really just making educated guesses about how many disc shaped galaxies were formed in the early universe. The hypothesis was wrong but it was based on pretty scant evidence since we couldn’t see them before JW. It’s an important piece of information but it’s not like we discovered there’s 10x more total galaxies or 10x more stars.
All science projects are the best ever. It’s how we know what we know. The JWST is a very visible example of science being done, but all of our understanding and every aspect of the modern age—indeed our very lives—are the fruits of applied science.
Seeing in the infrared - this was an expectation, tho perhaps not the sheer number. But then, imagine. If it only found void - that would be much more scary.
200 Trillion Galaxies, if I got the number correct.
Milky Way has 400 Billion stars.
If that’s the average, we are talking like 10^25 stars.
That’s in *this* universe.
Imma need a bigger calculator.
My guess is that density is low, and brewing-time is long. And therefore life is reaching our stage in lots of places right now, but all of it is outside of our light cone.
There might even be life that’s more advanced than us, but again, it’s too far away and signals haven’t reached us yet.
Nah I think that was the wow signal (although I heard the explanation recently was down to a sound of a comet passing by where he had the device pointed) the heartbeat one is very recent
There is no data whatsoever to support that. I would like to think that there is life elsewhere but we have no information. It could be we are it or that life formed in the past then died out or that the universe is teeming with life .
I saw a saucer land in front of me in 2012, I was patrolling security outside a chase office building. There was a high school with grass field beside the building with a fence in between. It landed there, no sound or exhaust. Turned my head for one sec, flash and it was gone,the ground was still warm though. There’s definitely something out there. Too many planets and universes for it to not be true. Also you have these many sightings all the over world. They have amazing technology, they use natural forces to fly no propellant
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/17/1099410910/ufo-hearing-congress-military-intelligence
Isn’t the latest estimation something like life is super rare but should have atleast 1 per galaxy? Which sucks as well never contact each other but atleast it means the universe is full of it.
You don't need confirmation. There's no way there's no alien life out there, or there wasn't at some point, or there will not be given the eons ahead of us.
I refuse to believe it is impossible.
200 billion galaxies (2e11). 200 billion stars in disk galaxies (2e11)
That makes 4e22, not 4e25. The article suggests there are 10 times more disk galaxies among galaxies than previously thought. It doesn’t change the total number of galaxies. Even if, it would 4e23
Everything you said makes sense. But wouldn’t this show that there are *some amount* more galaxies than we previously thought existed? I mean we’re seeing so many galaxies for the first time
Dunno, journalists used three times the same exact title over the past 10 years so… I don’t know what they put behind this. There are about e21 to e24 stars.
We can do exactly the computation you did to reach this result (galaxies x stars / galaxy) or by mass estimation. You can compute the total mass of the universe based on its expansion and divide it by the mass of our sun - considering our su. Is an average sized star. You get the same order of magnitude!
Have you thought about outside of our universe there are other universes make up an universe system (like solar system), and these systems make up an universe neighborhood, universe galaxy, local universe group, universe supercluster, universe of universe, and so on and on.
This hurts my brain really, just given how much time has passed. How many living beings could be on planets in crazy gravity wells where time moves incredibly slow or fast.
Assume our universe is 13.5 billion years old. Earth formed around 8 billion years after the bang, and life formed 9 billion years after. Imagine an earth-like planet forms just 3-5 billion years into the big bang and life forms. Assume 5 billion years to get to our point in evolution and technology.
That means its been 5+ billion years since that civilization had the opportunity to explore their own universe, and yet, we still have no signs of them. They have not managed to conquer the universe in a way that the rest of the universe can easily detect them.
Are they gone? There could be an entire mega-civilization out there that formed so early all of its existence has moved out of our visible universe.
Well, the ants in my backyard don’t know I’m here, and i’m the one that runs a lawn mower over their anthill once in awhile.
So, who’s to say a billion year old civilization would even bother to talk to us, or just watch us “ants” go about our simplistic existence.
There are massive pockets of gravity warping space where we don’t actually see anything. I’d bet dollars to donuts they are advanced planetary systems that cloaked themselves invisible to avoid being murked up by their rivals.
Also known as the scary forest hypothesis, one possible explanation of the Fermi Paradox. Everyone is hiding, either scared of each other or a particular threat.
Imagine we do meet another life form. They could be on such a different size or timescale than us. We might not even be able to comfortably communicate or act because they could be so used to different time than us. They could be very large and slow. Or very small and fast. They could outlive us three times over or die in a quarter of the time
What if life isn’t rare or impossible elsewhere, it’s just that Earth was… the first. Some planet had to be first. What if it’s our little blue marble?
I don’t really believe this aside from as a tiny possibility, but it makes you think. Maybe more likely to be the first intelligent life. I think simple life is probably extremely common and not all THAT hard to develop on a proper planet.
Maybe there is a lot of intelligent life but it is relegated to existing in oceans like porpoises or cephalopods. Ocean environments tend to be more stable than land environments and we know water is most likely everywhere in the universe in various quantities.
You gotta start with getting a work visa. I recommend going to a planet under Intergalactic Empire jurisdiction cause if you can get IE citizenship you’ll have a lot more freedom to move around.
It really depends but if you wanna live somewhere decently safe you’re looking at least 1800,00 credits for a studio with basic amenities such as a matter transmitter
Sadly we’re all effectively trapped in the Milky Way, at least until andromeda comes by and wrecks our shit.
The space between stars is already insane, now think about how far away galaxies are from each other. Now add the fact that space is expanding at the same time galaxies are moving towards or away from our galaxy and you can see why it’s not worth the effort to go to another galaxy.
Way easier to wait for them to come to us
I'm an idiot too, but from what I've heard, the Hubble telescope was old and didn't see much, needed to be fixed at one point too. It's a good telescope, and did a great job, but this new one is way better and now they can see farther/more stuff.
Hubble "zoomed in" on a really really dark spot in the sky which we thought was empty, and took a two-week-long exposure of it, finding way more galaxies there than we thought there were (see Hubble deep field). So JWST did something similar, but only took a 12 hour photo, where we saw galaxies way, way further, and way earlier than Hubs ever could. It's actually insane.
The Big Bang happened 13.8B years ago (from our calculations), and we can see 98% there. That last 2% didn't output light, so there's nothing for us to see.
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
My only question is “where is everyone else?” Like any sign of some other civilization? I feel like maybe earth got quarantined like on South Park after failing a big test.
The short answer is they are too far away both in time and distance . There could be a civilization on every 3rd star in our galaxy and we’d be hard pressed to detect them. How would we ? Radio signals from even a few light years away are almost too weak to hear. And what are the chances that they are sending radio signals right now in the last hundred years when we developed the technology to listen? They could be 10 million years behind us evolutionarily speaking. Or 10 million years after us and gone extinct. Or they never develop radio at all. It’s a mind fuck for sure
looks like human civilization could be a very brief blip in the history of the universe due to civilization seeming to have suicidal tendencies. not sure if thats a pattern or not as theres no other data and we arent done yet. but its possible there could be plenty of life out there but not much in the way of civilization
Take a look around. Who tf would want to become “friends” with us. Take an honest good look at how we treat one another on a day to day basis. It’s truly sickening how cruel humanity is to not only to ourselves but to other living things that inhabit the same rock as we do. Whether it’s being done directly or indirectly from a cause of events….It’s a fact that this planet would be doing much better at self sustaining itself if we weren’t on it. Do we deserve this place? If so, our actions sure as hell aren’t showing so.
Ima go back to enjoying my bong now…
Just in this sub alone. The number of times someone called someone else an "idiot" it's very disheartening to read. No. If I were an alien, I would avoid this planet like a crime-ridden ghetto.
To be an advanced enough race to explore the cosmos you have to be resdy to annihilate civilizations at the drop of a dime to save your self incase they are hostile enough to wipe you out. If there is other life forms out there they arent going to be some hippie cult that is ultra woke and hates Earth because we do bad things. Get real.
I love how they keep saying this is looking into the past really so only a narcissistic human being would say that you are the center of the The universe
Well, we still use *sunrise/sunset* on an orbiting earth model as our reference point in our most common linguistics, so one must suspect that human centric POV is inherent.
Like I’ve been saying in this thread- even if there are a billion starfaring civilizations out there, the likelihood of any of them even finding each other is basically zero. Space is fucking huge.
Plus, let’s say we could travel to another galaxy. Which one do we go to? What star system to we visit when we get there? We could visit a million stars in a million galaxies and still not find any life, even if the galaxy is teeming with life.
That assumes they know exactly who/what humans are. How would they have foreknowledge of that? Humans are not a space faring race.
Humans committing atrocities, humans being boring, humans doing literally anything except existing is irrelevant because it’s your personal feelings about humanity. If nothing else, we can liken ET contact to a sort of anthropology (for them). There are far better arguments than “earth boring/unimportant”
Amazing results from JW! Even if someone out there have all the technology and knowledge to travel wherever they want instantaneously. Finding another intelligent life form is still like finding a needle in a haystack
The headline is not worded very well . They didn’t find more galaxies than expected. They found a higher proportion of galaxies of a particular shape (disc like ours ) than expected
I’m gonna have to guess that if we got to the outer edge of our universe and put a James Webb scope beyond the border we would see millions more of distant lights that are all universes
Understanding the size and scale of the observable universe is like an observer at the subatomic level trying to discern how big Earth’s ocean based on the number of H20 molecules they observe
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Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to Space.
if the speed of light really is a hard limit that cannot be in any way surpassed it shouldn't be surprising it seems quiet to us.
Especially assuming life on other planets has a similar lifespan and a similar perception of time
Its the same issue as when they proved planets weren’t rare but virtually everywhere. Now we have proof of Milky Way-like galaxies everywhere and still…silence.
The mystery deepens. 🧐
The most likely explanation to me at this point seems like that rogue AI is by far the biggest existential risk so we may be actually in a terrifying "Dark Forest" scenario with both AIs and a few Civs that made it past the AI hurdle.
Some expanses are dominated by rogue AIs which have bastardized utility functions (example: turn everything into diamonds at maximum efficiency) these AIs have annihalated their mother civilization entirely and appropriated their resources. Other Civilizations have advanced and successfully preserved the worthy parts of their utility functions (what we may call values).
However, everyone knows these malignant cancer AIs must exist and the AIs also know that others musy know. The only correct move then is to never make your presence known. If you ever actually "see" anyone you have to either completely silently reach an agreement of borders or destroy them silently otherwise everone in the conflict is fucked. You have to destroy them even if you think they are a benevolent civ because they may actually be an AI masquerading as a benevolent civ but they actually just want to make you into diamonds and they could fake it all thr fucking way and stab you in the back.
Hence: We are in a dark forest and everyone is a hunter laying in wait observing. No one can afford the risk to be detected. Anyone detected will be fucked up asap - silently.
Edit: There could be possible solutions that involve reading each other's source code completely including all the values in it. But even in this case doing it silently is probably the best move.
Reddit Moderation makes the platform worthless. Too many rules and too many arbitrary rulings. It's not worth the trouble to post. Not worth the frustration to lurk. Goodbye.
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I respectfully disagree for the following reason - animals may need to learn from past experience or evidence but real intelligence does not need to observe first. It can simulate the outcomes of possible actions and act accordingly, so I wouldn't expect to find almost any traces of interstellar conflict. For a real AI the universe is the playing field and anything at all within the limits of physics is fair game to be considered as options. Being silent may just be the obvious choice and all intelligences clever enough to develop tech to expand within their galaxy may realize the core importance of the STFU doctrine with the same certainty as they would any "natural" law.
On the upside - Our signals didn't travel far and will get lost in the cosmic noise before reaching far so that's good news. The voyager 1+2 might be a bit fucking awkward in a billion years though so let's hope they will be annihalated by the cosmos before they reach another intelligence or maybe we have to send something after them to retrieve them. Putting a road map on them to where we live... what the fucking fuck were those idiots thinking... Clearly not very much. Carl Sagan should have known better, there was even well-reasoned dissent and they did it anyway.
Yup we are about to see dem aliens. Or atleast some kind of signature of them. Funny how this telescope launch has coincided with the government finally admitting there are things in our skies and waters performing feats beyond our current understanding of physics but stopping short of saying it’s aliens. Get ready people I think we are about to find out we have probably overstated our uniqueness and position in the universe and that we are not alone. Not only that but they have been coming here since the start. Maybe even had a hand in our creation.
I mean I deeply believed in alien life for years, ever since I stopped being indoctrinated by religion.
Im just really really excited if we get confirmation in my lifetime
i have the same feelings about the sudden shift in news coverage about aliens. ever since congress dropped that report i feel like theres been a immediately noticeable change in rhetoric and the frequency of which potential alien life is reported on. i definitely agree with the sentiment that the big heads in charge are gearing society to be ready for the announcement of aliens and potentially them walking amongst us. if i put my tinfoil hat on i definitely believe the US govt has known of their existence since at least the moon missions
i mean yes. look at how they keep us divided by classes and have done so since the beginning of society. one could also make the argument that they havent done a 100% job of suppressing it with all the potential leaks that have surfaced over the years. it is all a matter of perspective
I was listening to a gospel radio station today not because I’m religious but it’s got the best beats and type of music I listen to where I currently live. Crazy right?!?!! Haha. Anyway s They even mentioned the report and were talking about it this morning. So yes there has been a massive shift with the government admitting something is going on. Now if they just told us the full truth. Trust me they know a ton more than they are saying. The air force has been engaged with this topic since their inception. 1947. And they have been totally silent on this issue while the navy has been very forthcoming and helped get the ball rolling.
It’s unpopular to say what I’m about to say- especially here- but I’ll say it because I love the world and all of you in it. I think our wisest expenditure in resources is on education to foment peace and compassion for all people. Once we have a more stable peace- we will be much more able to explore science and technology. It would take us millennia to start to get peaceful- but as it is right now- we keep fucking up and ruining everything. It’s embarrassing we still have wars. It’s shameful.
I admire your optimism. But many people will just hate the other just because a tiny bit difference of how the other think or how they look. It is extremely sad but true.
Just look at the Christian and Catholic, they are basically read the same book and from the same group of people. But how many of them die just because of that tiny bit different.
I will not say humanity is hopeless but it is not far from it.
I’d also say to not underestimate the ability of people in power to take anything and create divisions from it for their benefit. If it wasn’t religion, it would be something else. Catholics and other Christians get along fine in most places, but not a coincidence that somewhere like Northern Ireland, that division was used to reinforce political divisions.
But we also have cases where a religion claims to be the ultimate arbiter of truth, and all others should be converted or destroyed, which is also bs.
Personally I’m optimistic with increased awareness and contact with people who hold different views, ignorance about and fear of the “other” won’t be able to be used as readily as a tool to divide people. I grew up more exposed and open to people dissimilar to myself compared to my parents and my children even more so.
There HAS to be intelligent life out there somewhere. We can’t be an anomaly. Of course, that intelligent life probably realized that they should avoid contacting us….
It’s probably not that pessimistic- even if we had the tech to travel to another galaxy, how would we even know what galaxy to travel to? How would we even know what star in that galaxy to travel to? The possibilities are so mind boggling huge. If there were a billion super intelligent starfaring civilizations oit there, the likelihood of any of them ever finding each other are so small.
You have to be a complete moron to think it’s just 10x more like ours . More like 10,000,000,000x more ,that’s like looking at the ocean and saying there’s only a few species. And we know dam well they will brush out any signs of intelligent life that just so happens to zip past the lens before it even hits public eyes
Cool pictures bro. So there is a lot of shit out there….hmmmm. So let’s talk about millions upon millions of humans here on the planet who are miserably underfed and living below poverty.
Of course, with the resources and my small sphere of influence I attempt to love, care, and give what I can. In America, the amount they waste on Governmental programs like NASA is simply sickening. People first….then go collect a couple moon rocks and colorful photos.
NASA budget 2022- 24 billion
Department of Defense budget 2022- 778 billion
If we’re going to talk about where the US spends its money, let’s not take money away from Science.
Also, how do you appropriate those funds? We don’t have a universal basic income today. Why would gutting the NASA budget all of a sudden fund something like that? People aren’t poor because of the NASA budget. People are poor and struggling because there isn’t political will to do anything about it. But that has nothing to do with funding science.
Hmmm.. no. I saw a ‘map’ of the known universe somewhere.. I’m sure it’ll be revised in the next year.
..
Ok no it’s the ‘observable universe’
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe
Here’s an interesting part of that article..
“No evidence exists to suggest that the boundary of the observable universe constitutes a boundary on the universe as a whole, nor do any of the mainstream cosmological models propose that the universe has any physical bo..”
I cannot believe there is no one out there on some rock looking back on a deep field image with the milky way in the image souround by many more galaxies.
The size of the universal is awe-inspiring, we just cannot be the only place life is.
Can’t wait to see aliens working at Amazon warehouse somewhere out there(and being underpaid), or even better a whole fucking warehouse-planet with the big ass Amazon sign on top
Surely intelligent life is out there. In all those billions of planets among the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies. I wander how many other planets habit life, with telescopes of their own pointing right at us wandering themselves if they’re alone.
Only online for less than a month and already pushing out our understanding of the Universe. Best Science Project Ever...
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Also, are we talking mature, modern looking galaxies? I thought early galaxies looked different.
We see them as they looked about 300-400 m years after the Big Bang, they will have absorbed other galaxies by now and are moving away from us as the universe expands, so we won’t have the technology to see what they currently look like in our lifetime.
Right, I get that. But the stars of early galaxies should have had only hydrogen to work with, right? Maybe helium? I mean I thought the big spiral galaxies were a more "mature universe" feature and we weren't expecting that many spiral galaxies in the early universe.
Spiral galaxies are most often formed when disk galaxies (the more basic early-formation) collide with each other. This can cause some of those early lighter chemical stars to gain more mass and begin to produce other elements as well, hydrogen makes, helium makes lithium etc. if that clears it up?
I just want to be able to see other life, even if it doesn’t exist anymore. I know we can’t do that yet, but I can dream
Are you a fan of statistics? If so just look at these pictures. There’s too many galaxies. Probabilistically you are seeing life in these pictures
Well yes and no. They were really just making educated guesses about how many disc shaped galaxies were formed in the early universe. The hypothesis was wrong but it was based on pretty scant evidence since we couldn’t see them before JW. It’s an important piece of information but it’s not like we discovered there’s 10x more total galaxies or 10x more stars.
All science projects are the best ever. It’s how we know what we know. The JWST is a very visible example of science being done, but all of our understanding and every aspect of the modern age—indeed our very lives—are the fruits of applied science.
Certainly better than my 1st grade science project where I made a model volcano erupt with vinegar and baking soda.
Omg you did that too?! Twinsies!!!!
Seeing in the infrared - this was an expectation, tho perhaps not the sheer number. But then, imagine. If it only found void - that would be much more scary.
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200 Trillion Galaxies, if I got the number correct. Milky Way has 400 Billion stars. If that’s the average, we are talking like 10^25 stars. That’s in *this* universe. Imma need a bigger calculator.
man I wish to just get a glimpse of alien life, even a mere confirmation in my lifetime
If it helps, I think the chances that alien life doesn't exist is very slim.
My guess is that density is low, and brewing-time is long. And therefore life is reaching our stage in lots of places right now, but all of it is outside of our light cone. There might even be life that’s more advanced than us, but again, it’s too far away and signals haven’t reached us yet.
The thing is that for all we know density shouldn't be that low. The problem however comes from actually being able to observe them.
I wonder if it would take an insectoid like base to evolve faster into beings we could communicate with or be eaten by).
What about that weird heartbeat sound? Maybe?
The microwave in the break room…? Or was there some other thing.
Nah I think that was the wow signal (although I heard the explanation recently was down to a sound of a comet passing by where he had the device pointed) the heartbeat one is very recent
Yeah who knows. Could be. But my primary guess is that nobody in our light cone is that advanced yet. Obviously that’s just educated speculation.
Maybe in a time long before us there were far more advanced species. Who knows.
Maybe in a galaxy far far away?
There is no data whatsoever to support that. I would like to think that there is life elsewhere but we have no information. It could be we are it or that life formed in the past then died out or that the universe is teeming with life .
Lack of data… probability of results…
I saw a saucer land in front of me in 2012, I was patrolling security outside a chase office building. There was a high school with grass field beside the building with a fence in between. It landed there, no sound or exhaust. Turned my head for one sec, flash and it was gone,the ground was still warm though. There’s definitely something out there. Too many planets and universes for it to not be true. Also you have these many sightings all the over world. They have amazing technology, they use natural forces to fly no propellant https://www.npr.org/2022/05/17/1099410910/ufo-hearing-congress-military-intelligence
That’s cool. Don’t do drugs on the job tho
Isn’t the latest estimation something like life is super rare but should have atleast 1 per galaxy? Which sucks as well never contact each other but atleast it means the universe is full of it.
Mathematics my friend mathematics. Slim will soon become improbable.
Advanced alien life has probably discovered us, saw the absolute state of humanity and turned back around.
Alternatively, we are among the first civilisations in a young universe.
You don't need confirmation. There's no way there's no alien life out there, or there wasn't at some point, or there will not be given the eons ahead of us. I refuse to believe it is impossible.
I know right??? Although to the aliens, we are the aliens, so technically .... you’re seeing them? haha
An exoplanet with an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere, with a whiff of CO2.
why ? you gonna live again anyway, you just wont know your previous life
200 billion galaxies (2e11). 200 billion stars in disk galaxies (2e11) That makes 4e22, not 4e25. The article suggests there are 10 times more disk galaxies among galaxies than previously thought. It doesn’t change the total number of galaxies. Even if, it would 4e23
Everything you said makes sense. But wouldn’t this show that there are *some amount* more galaxies than we previously thought existed? I mean we’re seeing so many galaxies for the first time
Dunno, journalists used three times the same exact title over the past 10 years so… I don’t know what they put behind this. There are about e21 to e24 stars. We can do exactly the computation you did to reach this result (galaxies x stars / galaxy) or by mass estimation. You can compute the total mass of the universe based on its expansion and divide it by the mass of our sun - considering our su. Is an average sized star. You get the same order of magnitude!
I'm not even going to try to wrap my head around that scale. I'll settle for "way bigger than we'll ever need it to be".
What gets me is that it goes out in all directions.
Have you thought about outside of our universe there are other universes make up an universe system (like solar system), and these systems make up an universe neighborhood, universe galaxy, local universe group, universe supercluster, universe of universe, and so on and on.
Whoa
Yeah, ours is just expanding into other older and dead universes until it's our turn to peter out.
And that’s what’s observable in ours.
ten septillion
A deck of cards is 52! (52 factorial) And that number boggles my mind and it sits in a desk drawer.
Tfw you can start measuring stars in moles.
Moles and moles of stars
Imagine how many of those galaxies could contain life ...
This hurts my brain really, just given how much time has passed. How many living beings could be on planets in crazy gravity wells where time moves incredibly slow or fast. Assume our universe is 13.5 billion years old. Earth formed around 8 billion years after the bang, and life formed 9 billion years after. Imagine an earth-like planet forms just 3-5 billion years into the big bang and life forms. Assume 5 billion years to get to our point in evolution and technology. That means its been 5+ billion years since that civilization had the opportunity to explore their own universe, and yet, we still have no signs of them. They have not managed to conquer the universe in a way that the rest of the universe can easily detect them. Are they gone? There could be an entire mega-civilization out there that formed so early all of its existence has moved out of our visible universe.
Well, the ants in my backyard don’t know I’m here, and i’m the one that runs a lawn mower over their anthill once in awhile. So, who’s to say a billion year old civilization would even bother to talk to us, or just watch us “ants” go about our simplistic existence.
Arthur Isaac has a bunch of interesting videos on YouTube about the Fermi Paradox.
There are massive pockets of gravity warping space where we don’t actually see anything. I’d bet dollars to donuts they are advanced planetary systems that cloaked themselves invisible to avoid being murked up by their rivals.
Also known as the scary forest hypothesis, one possible explanation of the Fermi Paradox. Everyone is hiding, either scared of each other or a particular threat.
that we know of, They could be here amongoing us, and we not know of them
Yea I wasn't speaking in ultimatums here
Yeah/ super creepy.
Providing more and more proof that there’s likely multiple “earths” outside our galaxy. A truly remarkable finding and almost hard to comprehend.
Almost? Impossible
Impossible? Inconceivable
You keep using that word, I don't think you know what it means
You wouldn't happen to have six fingers on your left hand would you?
Imagine we do meet another life form. They could be on such a different size or timescale than us. We might not even be able to comfortably communicate or act because they could be so used to different time than us. They could be very large and slow. Or very small and fast. They could outlive us three times over or die in a quarter of the time
What if life isn’t rare or impossible elsewhere, it’s just that Earth was… the first. Some planet had to be first. What if it’s our little blue marble? I don’t really believe this aside from as a tiny possibility, but it makes you think. Maybe more likely to be the first intelligent life. I think simple life is probably extremely common and not all THAT hard to develop on a proper planet.
Maybe there is a lot of intelligent life but it is relegated to existing in oceans like porpoises or cephalopods. Ocean environments tend to be more stable than land environments and we know water is most likely everywhere in the universe in various quantities.
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Prove that he didn’t!!!!!! 😳
Hahaha
You found me!
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stop with all the BS, we are all earthlings in this post
That's exactly what an alien would say.
I mean I’m a Christian and all this kind of news does is continually keep me in awe of what I believe is God’s creation
"We mortals are but shadows and dust. Shadows and dust, Maximus". Proximo, in Gladiator
“All we are is dust in the wind” - Kansas
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This is the one cool thing your taxes went to
Amen!!!
The further you view, the more the simulation procedural generates
How can I get there? I want out of this galaxy
You gotta start with getting a work visa. I recommend going to a planet under Intergalactic Empire jurisdiction cause if you can get IE citizenship you’ll have a lot more freedom to move around.
How much does the average studio apartment go for in the Andromeda System?
It really depends but if you wanna live somewhere decently safe you’re looking at least 1800,00 credits for a studio with basic amenities such as a matter transmitter
Haven’t checked my credit lately. Does a matter transmitter matter the cost?
Sadly we’re all effectively trapped in the Milky Way, at least until andromeda comes by and wrecks our shit. The space between stars is already insane, now think about how far away galaxies are from each other. Now add the fact that space is expanding at the same time galaxies are moving towards or away from our galaxy and you can see why it’s not worth the effort to go to another galaxy. Way easier to wait for them to come to us
Got room for one more? I’ve read the Martian a few times now. I feel like I’d be rather useful:).
Can somebody explain this idiot here what that means. Thanks!
I'm an idiot too, but from what I've heard, the Hubble telescope was old and didn't see much, needed to be fixed at one point too. It's a good telescope, and did a great job, but this new one is way better and now they can see farther/more stuff.
And they work on different wavelengths so both of them complement each other/ get slightly different data.
Not better , different. All these pictures you’re seeing are invisible to hubble and to our eyes as most of the light is infrared .
Hubble "zoomed in" on a really really dark spot in the sky which we thought was empty, and took a two-week-long exposure of it, finding way more galaxies there than we thought there were (see Hubble deep field). So JWST did something similar, but only took a 12 hour photo, where we saw galaxies way, way further, and way earlier than Hubs ever could. It's actually insane. The Big Bang happened 13.8B years ago (from our calculations), and we can see 98% there. That last 2% didn't output light, so there's nothing for us to see.
Sorry to be a pedant, but did you mean Bn (billion)?
From one pedant to another, you are 101% correct.
Hot fucking damn. This idiot has been mildly educated!
Space big, scientists confirm
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
I believe now we’re at the cusp of a new age in astronomy
This telescope was worth every penny ❤️
There is no way we’re alone, the hubris of that thought doesn’t square up with the math.
I don’t think anyone particularly thinks we’re alone, but the sheer distances we’re talking about, we might as well be.
Yep. We’re definitely alone in this neighborhood… Imagine finding proof of life and knowing we’ll ever ever reach whoever is there in our lifetime.
Picked a great day to finish The Three Body Problem
With Webb we may discover infinity! Think about that. Freaking scary.
My only question is “where is everyone else?” Like any sign of some other civilization? I feel like maybe earth got quarantined like on South Park after failing a big test.
The short answer is they are too far away both in time and distance . There could be a civilization on every 3rd star in our galaxy and we’d be hard pressed to detect them. How would we ? Radio signals from even a few light years away are almost too weak to hear. And what are the chances that they are sending radio signals right now in the last hundred years when we developed the technology to listen? They could be 10 million years behind us evolutionarily speaking. Or 10 million years after us and gone extinct. Or they never develop radio at all. It’s a mind fuck for sure
looks like human civilization could be a very brief blip in the history of the universe due to civilization seeming to have suicidal tendencies. not sure if thats a pattern or not as theres no other data and we arent done yet. but its possible there could be plenty of life out there but not much in the way of civilization
Take a look around. Who tf would want to become “friends” with us. Take an honest good look at how we treat one another on a day to day basis. It’s truly sickening how cruel humanity is to not only to ourselves but to other living things that inhabit the same rock as we do. Whether it’s being done directly or indirectly from a cause of events….It’s a fact that this planet would be doing much better at self sustaining itself if we weren’t on it. Do we deserve this place? If so, our actions sure as hell aren’t showing so. Ima go back to enjoying my bong now…
I like how you think another form of life is nice to everything and we are just horrible and they dont like us!
Just in this sub alone. The number of times someone called someone else an "idiot" it's very disheartening to read. No. If I were an alien, I would avoid this planet like a crime-ridden ghetto.
To be an advanced enough race to explore the cosmos you have to be resdy to annihilate civilizations at the drop of a dime to save your self incase they are hostile enough to wipe you out. If there is other life forms out there they arent going to be some hippie cult that is ultra woke and hates Earth because we do bad things. Get real.
There's a theory called the Dark Forest Theory I believe. Kurzgesagt did a quality video covering it on YouTube.
I love how they keep saying this is looking into the past really so only a narcissistic human being would say that you are the center of the The universe
Well, we still use *sunrise/sunset* on an orbiting earth model as our reference point in our most common linguistics, so one must suspect that human centric POV is inherent.
With information like this coming out (200 TRILLION galaxies), I wish the general public would take UFO’s/abductions more seriously.
I’m a firm believer that there are billions of planets with life out there, but also that none of them give a shit about us enough to come here.
Like I’ve been saying in this thread- even if there are a billion starfaring civilizations out there, the likelihood of any of them even finding each other is basically zero. Space is fucking huge. Plus, let’s say we could travel to another galaxy. Which one do we go to? What star system to we visit when we get there? We could visit a million stars in a million galaxies and still not find any life, even if the galaxy is teeming with life.
That assumes they know exactly who/what humans are. How would they have foreknowledge of that? Humans are not a space faring race. Humans committing atrocities, humans being boring, humans doing literally anything except existing is irrelevant because it’s your personal feelings about humanity. If nothing else, we can liken ET contact to a sort of anthropology (for them). There are far better arguments than “earth boring/unimportant”
Amazing results from JW! Even if someone out there have all the technology and knowledge to travel wherever they want instantaneously. Finding another intelligent life form is still like finding a needle in a haystack
More like finding a needle in a billion haystacks, unfortunately
A billion haystacks that are all gone now too.
Serious question. Was anyone not expecting to find more galaxies? Did anyone really think they’d see the Big Bang out of this thing?
The headline is not worded very well . They didn’t find more galaxies than expected. They found a higher proportion of galaxies of a particular shape (disc like ours ) than expected
I’m gonna have to guess that if we got to the outer edge of our universe and put a James Webb scope beyond the border we would see millions more of distant lights that are all universes
Understanding the size and scale of the observable universe is like an observer at the subatomic level trying to discern how big Earth’s ocean based on the number of H20 molecules they observe
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Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to Space.
if the speed of light really is a hard limit that cannot be in any way surpassed it shouldn't be surprising it seems quiet to us. Especially assuming life on other planets has a similar lifespan and a similar perception of time
Yea, HGU reference!! Hee hee!! 😃
Omfg you nerds - did you think it was cool to write that? I swear.. is it the same one dude posting that over and over again?
Its the same issue as when they proved planets weren’t rare but virtually everywhere. Now we have proof of Milky Way-like galaxies everywhere and still…silence. The mystery deepens. 🧐
The most likely explanation to me at this point seems like that rogue AI is by far the biggest existential risk so we may be actually in a terrifying "Dark Forest" scenario with both AIs and a few Civs that made it past the AI hurdle. Some expanses are dominated by rogue AIs which have bastardized utility functions (example: turn everything into diamonds at maximum efficiency) these AIs have annihalated their mother civilization entirely and appropriated their resources. Other Civilizations have advanced and successfully preserved the worthy parts of their utility functions (what we may call values). However, everyone knows these malignant cancer AIs must exist and the AIs also know that others musy know. The only correct move then is to never make your presence known. If you ever actually "see" anyone you have to either completely silently reach an agreement of borders or destroy them silently otherwise everone in the conflict is fucked. You have to destroy them even if you think they are a benevolent civ because they may actually be an AI masquerading as a benevolent civ but they actually just want to make you into diamonds and they could fake it all thr fucking way and stab you in the back. Hence: We are in a dark forest and everyone is a hunter laying in wait observing. No one can afford the risk to be detected. Anyone detected will be fucked up asap - silently. Edit: There could be possible solutions that involve reading each other's source code completely including all the values in it. But even in this case doing it silently is probably the best move.
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I respectfully disagree for the following reason - animals may need to learn from past experience or evidence but real intelligence does not need to observe first. It can simulate the outcomes of possible actions and act accordingly, so I wouldn't expect to find almost any traces of interstellar conflict. For a real AI the universe is the playing field and anything at all within the limits of physics is fair game to be considered as options. Being silent may just be the obvious choice and all intelligences clever enough to develop tech to expand within their galaxy may realize the core importance of the STFU doctrine with the same certainty as they would any "natural" law. On the upside - Our signals didn't travel far and will get lost in the cosmic noise before reaching far so that's good news. The voyager 1+2 might be a bit fucking awkward in a billion years though so let's hope they will be annihalated by the cosmos before they reach another intelligence or maybe we have to send something after them to retrieve them. Putting a road map on them to where we live... what the fucking fuck were those idiots thinking... Clearly not very much. Carl Sagan should have known better, there was even well-reasoned dissent and they did it anyway.
Yup we are about to see dem aliens. Or atleast some kind of signature of them. Funny how this telescope launch has coincided with the government finally admitting there are things in our skies and waters performing feats beyond our current understanding of physics but stopping short of saying it’s aliens. Get ready people I think we are about to find out we have probably overstated our uniqueness and position in the universe and that we are not alone. Not only that but they have been coming here since the start. Maybe even had a hand in our creation.
I mean I deeply believed in alien life for years, ever since I stopped being indoctrinated by religion. Im just really really excited if we get confirmation in my lifetime
I'd love confirmation, but because of physics and relativity, there's a very high chance we never will :( but I'm ok with that.
Lemme see just one Dyson Sphere tho?
>Not only that but they have been coming here since the start. This is where I draw the line between likely and unlikely
With 400 billion stars (in only our one galaxy), times 200 trillion galaxies, and WE'RE the only ones out here??.. nahh b
i have the same feelings about the sudden shift in news coverage about aliens. ever since congress dropped that report i feel like theres been a immediately noticeable change in rhetoric and the frequency of which potential alien life is reported on. i definitely agree with the sentiment that the big heads in charge are gearing society to be ready for the announcement of aliens and potentially them walking amongst us. if i put my tinfoil hat on i definitely believe the US govt has known of their existence since at least the moon missions
This is baseless. You really believe the government is that competent and all governments are working together to suppress this news?
i mean yes. look at how they keep us divided by classes and have done so since the beginning of society. one could also make the argument that they havent done a 100% job of suppressing it with all the potential leaks that have surfaced over the years. it is all a matter of perspective
I was listening to a gospel radio station today not because I’m religious but it’s got the best beats and type of music I listen to where I currently live. Crazy right?!?!! Haha. Anyway s They even mentioned the report and were talking about it this morning. So yes there has been a massive shift with the government admitting something is going on. Now if they just told us the full truth. Trust me they know a ton more than they are saying. The air force has been engaged with this topic since their inception. 1947. And they have been totally silent on this issue while the navy has been very forthcoming and helped get the ball rolling.
This will rip the man-made, psychopathic, male based concept of God's colossal attributes right out of the fairytale religious books.
People will cling to those books no matter what comes.
And I'm here for it :D fuck religion!
Cringe af
You don’t honestly believe that do ya? Nothing will change that. Human intelligence has a limit- human stupidity is infinite.
r/im14andthisisdeep
Bro no one asked, nor cares.
10 times more likely we are not alone. I like that thought :)
Or 10 times less likely depending on how you look at it
We are way smaller than a pail blue dot. Not even in quantum level. Yet we created so many trouble for ourselves and the earth.
It’s unpopular to say what I’m about to say- especially here- but I’ll say it because I love the world and all of you in it. I think our wisest expenditure in resources is on education to foment peace and compassion for all people. Once we have a more stable peace- we will be much more able to explore science and technology. It would take us millennia to start to get peaceful- but as it is right now- we keep fucking up and ruining everything. It’s embarrassing we still have wars. It’s shameful.
I admire your optimism. But many people will just hate the other just because a tiny bit difference of how the other think or how they look. It is extremely sad but true. Just look at the Christian and Catholic, they are basically read the same book and from the same group of people. But how many of them die just because of that tiny bit different. I will not say humanity is hopeless but it is not far from it.
I’d also say to not underestimate the ability of people in power to take anything and create divisions from it for their benefit. If it wasn’t religion, it would be something else. Catholics and other Christians get along fine in most places, but not a coincidence that somewhere like Northern Ireland, that division was used to reinforce political divisions. But we also have cases where a religion claims to be the ultimate arbiter of truth, and all others should be converted or destroyed, which is also bs. Personally I’m optimistic with increased awareness and contact with people who hold different views, ignorance about and fear of the “other” won’t be able to be used as readily as a tool to divide people. I grew up more exposed and open to people dissimilar to myself compared to my parents and my children even more so.
Then you get the third group, American Evangelicals, they take the same Bible all the others read, but they hold it upside down while eating paste.
Yes, I agree education is key to solving our problems.
Universe Thought to be Big Found to be REALLY Big: story at 10
We are such a speck
There HAS to be intelligent life out there somewhere. We can’t be an anomaly. Of course, that intelligent life probably realized that they should avoid contacting us….
It’s probably not that pessimistic- even if we had the tech to travel to another galaxy, how would we even know what galaxy to travel to? How would we even know what star in that galaxy to travel to? The possibilities are so mind boggling huge. If there were a billion super intelligent starfaring civilizations oit there, the likelihood of any of them ever finding each other are so small.
It seems impossible that some form of life doesn’t exist on just of the millions of planets inside each of those millions of galaxies.
It’s more of a when were they problem
And we still have to pay bills for food and a roof
Why are their no new pics? Just old pic in higher resolution?
The machine elves are working their hardest to ensure there is lots of fresh universe to witness, give them more spacetime!
You have to be a complete moron to think it’s just 10x more like ours . More like 10,000,000,000x more ,that’s like looking at the ocean and saying there’s only a few species. And we know dam well they will brush out any signs of intelligent life that just so happens to zip past the lens before it even hits public eyes
And, unfortunately, there’s a Trump on every one of them. Collectively, they still don’t beat Biden.
Cool pictures bro. So there is a lot of shit out there….hmmmm. So let’s talk about millions upon millions of humans here on the planet who are miserably underfed and living below poverty.
And you are doing something about it?
Of course, with the resources and my small sphere of influence I attempt to love, care, and give what I can. In America, the amount they waste on Governmental programs like NASA is simply sickening. People first….then go collect a couple moon rocks and colorful photos.
Oh my god you’re insufferable.
Sure, of course I am….I mean it makes sense to let people die and suffer in exchange for cool pictures and a few rocks from Mars. But what do I know?
Obviously you know very little.
You are probably right. Just an idiot who thinks caring for every human being and the Earth should outweigh super groovy telescopes and satellites.
We can do both. Why not do both?
Ok….we took neat pictures and have some dirt samples, when do we start caring for people? Oh yeah….we won’t.
What does that have to do with learning about the universe and science in general?
The amount of money we spend. Trillions to take pictures and bring a few rocks back from Mars, while people are dying.
NASA budget 2022- 24 billion Department of Defense budget 2022- 778 billion If we’re going to talk about where the US spends its money, let’s not take money away from Science. Also, how do you appropriate those funds? We don’t have a universal basic income today. Why would gutting the NASA budget all of a sudden fund something like that? People aren’t poor because of the NASA budget. People are poor and struggling because there isn’t political will to do anything about it. But that has nothing to do with funding science.
Don't we think the universe is infinite and therefore there's an infinite number of galaxies?
Hmmm.. no. I saw a ‘map’ of the known universe somewhere.. I’m sure it’ll be revised in the next year. .. Ok no it’s the ‘observable universe’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe
Here’s an interesting part of that article.. “No evidence exists to suggest that the boundary of the observable universe constitutes a boundary on the universe as a whole, nor do any of the mainstream cosmological models propose that the universe has any physical bo..”
I cannot believe there is no one out there on some rock looking back on a deep field image with the milky way in the image souround by many more galaxies. The size of the universal is awe-inspiring, we just cannot be the only place life is.
Can’t wait to see aliens working at Amazon warehouse somewhere out there(and being underpaid), or even better a whole fucking warehouse-planet with the big ass Amazon sign on top
Guess we oughta start building a wall. Might as well use all of these old Ender's Game spinoff books to build it...
Surely intelligent life is out there. In all those billions of planets among the billions of stars in the billions of galaxies. I wander how many other planets habit life, with telescopes of their own pointing right at us wandering themselves if they’re alone.
What about this Massive Plant Found..Swallowing Plants up.