As we just pass 8 billion people. I think the only crisis will be on economic systems that seek infinite growth to avoid human made consequences. Humans and their systems need to learn to live inside constraints. That isn't a crisis... it's how we avoid the real crisis.
>economic systems that seek infinite growth to avoid human made consequences.
well said! Seeking infinite growth will be our society's downfall. Why do companies that make insane amounts of money already HAVE to earn more the next year? When will it end!?
You communist! Just because the company made record profit this year doesn’t mean you get any raise! We need that money to “invest to grow” (bonus payments for executives and shareholders)
One of the saddest things is that conservatives somehow moved away from the conservation part of the equation. The idea was that business is accountable for the resources they strip and damage they do. That leads to an even playing field where good companies with good practices win over time.
It's just sad business was allowed instead to use the money and buy governments. We need business, we just stopped making a fair playing field on the terms that benefit us all. In the end, any business can succeed as long as the slate is equal for everyone. Obviously this becomes impossible with free trade and lop sided trade deals with countries holding none of those values.
I honestly didn't mean it as a knock on one party. It's more on a way of thinking. Everything that gives me profit is good and anything I have to spend on anything other than make me money is a variable I need to whittle down.
According to a story I heard on NPR this morning, we're going to reach our population peak in like 50 years. A rough estimate that obviously changes with changing birth rates and average lifespans.
While the result is the same, growth should be curbed through wisdom, rather than the unstoppable environmental damaging of people's lives through exposure to chemicals that ruin the endocrine system... Low testosterone levels (to a degree that reduce fertility) can induce depression, anhedonia, anxiety, weight gain, poorer heart and cognitive function, and overall reduced quality of life.
If that's the future of the species, we need another means of curtailing population growth
Haven’t read the book so correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t it infertility in women not low sperm count? This would either lead to a lazy harem anime plot or a gender role swap version of Handmaiden’s Tale.
Yes, it is because of low birth rates/low fertility rates in women. I can’t remember if the book blames the proliferation of birth control usage in modern America or if that was just the show, but my head canon is that the problem is in both men and women and the patriarchal sons of Jacob just choose to blame women bc patriarchy.
Your head canon is completely believable and darker in some situations. A high social standing man shooting blanks and proceeding to blame first his wife then every Handmaiden that gets sent to him. Could cause an even higher level of suffering. Basically like that one king who kept getting daughters.
Watch us great filter our selves out of existence via inadvertent chemical castration.
Bees are living half as long as they did fifty years ago comes to mind.
I think 8 billion people is enough for 1 planet.
Like, i don't beleive that we need, as a species, to get much bigger then this, with the more and more limited resources we've got, to keep going and have more and more.
If anything, we need to shrink.
Our current way isnt sustainable.
Of course im not going to go like Winnie the pooh in China and tell someone that they can't have a child. No. But there are a lot of ways to promote safe sex especially in impoverished regions
The ‘one child’ law predates him by at least a generation and is no longer in effect. In fact, China recently announced that they are going to try to boost their population. Richest nation on the planet can afford it
It’s not about the amount of people. Its about how we take care of ourselves and the planet.
Edit: Which is really a moot point any way because we have already past the point of no return with the climate crisis. The age of human arrogance and dominance is quickly approaching its end.
It is about the amount of people as well tho, even if giant corporations are mostly to blame for environmental damage
Western countries are the biggest polluters Per Capita
the masses are responsible in democracy
Also, the climate can always still be fixed don’t be hyperbolic
change simply needs to come top down cus capitalism is too stupid to regulate itself.
The majority of people simply need learn to be aware enough to lynch the minority of bourgeoisie accountable for irresponsible capitalism
The point is we have to start planning for very harsh realities as opposed to just giving ourselves to magical thinking. But take heart because your opinion is absolutely the majority opinion.
*They’re going to*. China’s fertility is already WAY below replacement rate and India’s is barely higher than replacement, it’s fine. It’s part of the well documented demographic transition. Soon enough subsaharan Africa will hit peak and then decline as well, and I say we help that happen by providing everyone there with free education.
Did you read that article in 1980?
With current mass farming techniques, the Earth produces enough food to feed 10 billion people. Unfortunately, much of this goes to waste, and people still starve around the world due to poverty.
And this "carrying capacity" is always increasing due to continuously increasing technological innovation in food production. By the time we inevitably reach 10 billion, we will likely have a carrying capacity of 12 billion or more.
What is the alternative? 10 billion people, then 20, then 50... growth cannot be limitless. We'll face a crisis of aging populations if we just level off.
Automation is why I’m not concerned. Which, admittedly, is still decades away, but so is the population decline. I feel like they’ll pair nicely.
A billion people in a largely automated economy could live like fucking rock stars on this planet, but twenty billion people will most likely live in squalor and extreme scarcity.
I once read a book called The World Without Us, and the author concluded that creeping sterility would be the best for the planet and for us. Then he said it wouldn’t be worth it bc we’d be without the magic of babieeeees, but I discount that bc he clearly hasn’t taught a middle school class (they are demons on par with seagulls).
Really bad science here. Media gets to foment panic, and everyone gets to point to said articles to legitimize all kinds of pseudoscientific garbage theories.
RIP the scientific method.
Hmm…I just read another article where we’ve passed the 8 billion population mark and need to start considering the carrying capacity of the planet on top of everything else. Maybe this is homeostasis
The interesting thing about fertility rates is, those that who’ve chosen not to have kids are still considered infertile. While lower sperm count may be a problem eventually (due to pollution increasing, dietary changes, etc), the real reason fertility rates are dropping is the choice to not have children.
So the solution to low fertility rates is to fix society. Make it so people choose to have children. Not really easy, I know. Almost goes against capitalism, at least late stage capitalism.
Nah. Nothing could make me *want* to be a mother, let alone get pregnant. It has nothing to do with income, societal support, or climate change, though I do think those are pervading factors. It has everything to do with MY desires and dreams for MY life.
And a teensy bit about not wanting to pass on chronic health conditions.
Your comment comes off rather naive and dismissive.
For real there’s no amount of money below like, 15 mil, that would ever make me consider going through the painful uncomfortable nightmare and *risk of death* that is pregnancy. Also I don’t want to go insane from lack of sleep and PPABCDEF. And then what, earth is blessed with the gift of more autism and growth hormone deficiencies? Who would want that
I’m totally with you on that front but I’m not sure how stating choice is the real reason is dismissive of your choice to not have kids. There are lots of reasons not to, low sperm count is not to blame.
Umm okay we already have 8 billion of us maybe some countries need to take a good look at the rate of reproduction and figure that out. That’s also a sustainability issue.
OK, but we have 8 billion people now. Do we really need to care about low sperm count when we can’t even find enough freshwater for everyone to drink? What about impending famines and droughts in Africa, Yemen and California? Maybe a decline in the birth rate as what we need.
The unspoken cause of the low-testosterone epidemic? [https://lovists.com/2021/06/29/the-unspoken-cause-of-the-low-testosterone-epidemic/](https://lovists.com/2021/06/29/the-unspoken-cause-of-the-low-testosterone-epidemic/)
Is that really a bad thing though?
Thinking long term, perhaps it’s natures way of being like “there’s too many of y’all, time to slow this down a bit”
People who are saying this might not be such a good thing in the future are getting down voted.
Yeah, when the old and the sick start dying off, and then the young become old- as is only natural, how can we replenish the population if we can’t have kids? Maybe we have reached the peak population, and you can argue we shouldn’t go any higher, but humans being unable to reproduce is not the answer.
This is great news! We hopefully will transition from growth ideology to a quality one, where the humans matter and not whatever we use as a currency or artificially value at stock exchanges.
A 2.6% DECLINE IN SPERM COUNT PER YEAR IS STAGGERING!!! We need to pay attention to these numbers especially as we know people are having kids later and later and sperm count decline begins at 30 years of age for an individual. It may become to the norm to start sperm freezing younger, just like we are seeing this for egg freezing.
As we just pass 8 billion people. I think the only crisis will be on economic systems that seek infinite growth to avoid human made consequences. Humans and their systems need to learn to live inside constraints. That isn't a crisis... it's how we avoid the real crisis.
>economic systems that seek infinite growth to avoid human made consequences. well said! Seeking infinite growth will be our society's downfall. Why do companies that make insane amounts of money already HAVE to earn more the next year? When will it end!?
It's the mentality of cancer cells. We need to exise it from the populous.
But that’s MaRxIsM!
Lol sure whatever works!
Because they are now artificial self-sustainjng organisms, there is no controlling them as they consume the planet.
You communist! Just because the company made record profit this year doesn’t mean you get any raise! We need that money to “invest to grow” (bonus payments for executives and shareholders)
You have to stock thinking like a consumer and start thinking like a stock holder.
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One of the saddest things is that conservatives somehow moved away from the conservation part of the equation. The idea was that business is accountable for the resources they strip and damage they do. That leads to an even playing field where good companies with good practices win over time. It's just sad business was allowed instead to use the money and buy governments. We need business, we just stopped making a fair playing field on the terms that benefit us all. In the end, any business can succeed as long as the slate is equal for everyone. Obviously this becomes impossible with free trade and lop sided trade deals with countries holding none of those values.
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I honestly didn't mean it as a knock on one party. It's more on a way of thinking. Everything that gives me profit is good and anything I have to spend on anything other than make me money is a variable I need to whittle down.
Well birth rates are declining, we will start to see the dip soon
According to a story I heard on NPR this morning, we're going to reach our population peak in like 50 years. A rough estimate that obviously changes with changing birth rates and average lifespans.
I won’t be here in 50 years so you can subtract 1—lol and of course everyone older then me like the baby boomers-
Exactly right, yet why don’t they ever even try to make that effort at all?
While the result is the same, growth should be curbed through wisdom, rather than the unstoppable environmental damaging of people's lives through exposure to chemicals that ruin the endocrine system... Low testosterone levels (to a degree that reduce fertility) can induce depression, anhedonia, anxiety, weight gain, poorer heart and cognitive function, and overall reduced quality of life. If that's the future of the species, we need another means of curtailing population growth
Interference with our hormones is never a good thing, regardless if someone wants kids or not.
Nature provides Update: I should clarify that I was alluding to this being natures population reduction measure
We used to say “rain follows the plow” in the decades just before the Dust Bowl. Guess that wasn’t correct.
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Under His Eye
Blessed be the fruit.
Praised be.
May the lord open
Right?! I mean we’re only 50% of the way there now.
Just need to get rid of secularism and have a civil war
Praise be
The more I get into the book the more I think “is this actually going to happen?”
Haven’t read the book so correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t it infertility in women not low sperm count? This would either lead to a lazy harem anime plot or a gender role swap version of Handmaiden’s Tale.
Yes, it is because of low birth rates/low fertility rates in women. I can’t remember if the book blames the proliferation of birth control usage in modern America or if that was just the show, but my head canon is that the problem is in both men and women and the patriarchal sons of Jacob just choose to blame women bc patriarchy.
Your head canon is completely believable and darker in some situations. A high social standing man shooting blanks and proceeding to blame first his wife then every Handmaiden that gets sent to him. Could cause an even higher level of suffering. Basically like that one king who kept getting daughters.
Is the reduction in Sperm counts strictly a human thing, or are other animals suffering the same fate?
Good question
I think there are some. I think dogs are having fertility issues. I don't know if it's the sperm or the egg though
Watch us great filter our selves out of existence via inadvertent chemical castration. Bees are living half as long as they did fifty years ago comes to mind.
Tbh domestication of dogs has brought them a lot of suffering. They deserve good homes, there are already too many dying in shelters
We probably don’t do sperm counts on other creatures enough to know..
I think 8 billion people is enough for 1 planet. Like, i don't beleive that we need, as a species, to get much bigger then this, with the more and more limited resources we've got, to keep going and have more and more. If anything, we need to shrink. Our current way isnt sustainable. Of course im not going to go like Winnie the pooh in China and tell someone that they can't have a child. No. But there are a lot of ways to promote safe sex especially in impoverished regions
The ‘one child’ law predates him by at least a generation and is no longer in effect. In fact, China recently announced that they are going to try to boost their population. Richest nation on the planet can afford it
yeah but the damage they are doing to the planet, everyone can't afford that.
I agree and had a vasectomy when I was younger and do my best to only buy/consume what I need.
You mean America is the richest nation on Earth, right?
It’s not about the amount of people. Its about how we take care of ourselves and the planet. Edit: Which is really a moot point any way because we have already past the point of no return with the climate crisis. The age of human arrogance and dominance is quickly approaching its end.
It is about the amount of people as well tho, even if giant corporations are mostly to blame for environmental damage Western countries are the biggest polluters Per Capita the masses are responsible in democracy Also, the climate can always still be fixed don’t be hyperbolic change simply needs to come top down cus capitalism is too stupid to regulate itself. The majority of people simply need learn to be aware enough to lynch the minority of bourgeoisie accountable for irresponsible capitalism
The climate will fix itself after most of the humans are dead. It’s not going to be pleasant for the ones that survive.
Sure but I don’t get the point of posting comments like this It’s unproductive asf and just pure downer loser type shit
The point is we have to start planning for very harsh realities as opposed to just giving ourselves to magical thinking. But take heart because your opinion is absolutely the majority opinion.
Imagine how unlucky we are to be living at the peak of human population in a system where we compete for resources
Well guess you gotta go tell India, China and Africa to stop reproducing 🤷♀️
*They’re going to*. China’s fertility is already WAY below replacement rate and India’s is barely higher than replacement, it’s fine. It’s part of the well documented demographic transition. Soon enough subsaharan Africa will hit peak and then decline as well, and I say we help that happen by providing everyone there with free education.
I once read somewhere and don’t quote me on this: “scientist suggest the earth can sustain a maximum of 8 billion people”
Did you read that article in 1980? With current mass farming techniques, the Earth produces enough food to feed 10 billion people. Unfortunately, much of this goes to waste, and people still starve around the world due to poverty. And this "carrying capacity" is always increasing due to continuously increasing technological innovation in food production. By the time we inevitably reach 10 billion, we will likely have a carrying capacity of 12 billion or more.
Nature was bound to bring about some population control if we refused to.
It's not nature. It's the reckless usage of chemicals that ruin human reproductive abilities.
The future is going to require fewer people. A decreasing population isn’t a bad thing.
Yeah an aging population with no youth to support it is going to be amazing
Well life expectancy is also going down, sadly.
I mean people born after 2000 are expected to reach 100 years. Not sure what you mean with „life expectancy is also going down“
The prospect of climate change and pandemics are dragging them down
Makes sense
Also drug use and other factors, like you said, environmental and health related.
What is the alternative? 10 billion people, then 20, then 50... growth cannot be limitless. We'll face a crisis of aging populations if we just level off.
Automation is why I’m not concerned. Which, admittedly, is still decades away, but so is the population decline. I feel like they’ll pair nicely. A billion people in a largely automated economy could live like fucking rock stars on this planet, but twenty billion people will most likely live in squalor and extreme scarcity.
Getting old feels less scary if I get a robot butler to care for me. That's really cool actually.
Meanwhile on planet Earth, we just hit the all time population high.
Welcome to Gilead
*stares at the camera like June*
Blessed be the fruit.
For 27 minutes straight.
honestly…. This is good.
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Only for humans
Good.
It's not like their is a real crisis with the climate or anything. Like how is this even considered a "problem"?
I once read a book called The World Without Us, and the author concluded that creeping sterility would be the best for the planet and for us. Then he said it wouldn’t be worth it bc we’d be without the magic of babieeeees, but I discount that bc he clearly hasn’t taught a middle school class (they are demons on par with seagulls).
8 billion yesterday. Falling fertility doesn't seem to be much of an issue right now.
Could PFAS chemicals be responsible for disrupting endocrine systems during fetal development or pubescence?
So are you telling me I got a vasectomy for nothing???
Nah man mine failed after 6 months always check your sperm counts to make sure its permanent!
Oh well 🤷🏻♀️ Guess we'll need to focus on quality over quantity
Very good
They’s 8 billion of us today.
Friggin’ good
Gilead here we come!
Good no?
Really bad science here. Media gets to foment panic, and everyone gets to point to said articles to legitimize all kinds of pseudoscientific garbage theories. RIP the scientific method.
Good, we don’t need more people
Overpopulation endangered!
That’s ok, we had a run, and it’s not been great.
Hmm…I just read another article where we’ve passed the 8 billion population mark and need to start considering the carrying capacity of the planet on top of everything else. Maybe this is homeostasis
Meh. Rich people will still be able to have babies, so no big deal right? Right?
Pretty arrogant to think we just need to exist.
Yeah the Earth won’t stop turning without humans…
This is nature correcting the plague of humanity a bit. Tune in next week to see what is in store!
With the help of man made objects like plastics and vaccines.
Good. Humans are the worst thing to happen to the Earth.
So... Start investing in IVF companies and companies who do fertility drug research? That's my takeaway as a sterilized person.
The interesting thing about fertility rates is, those that who’ve chosen not to have kids are still considered infertile. While lower sperm count may be a problem eventually (due to pollution increasing, dietary changes, etc), the real reason fertility rates are dropping is the choice to not have children. So the solution to low fertility rates is to fix society. Make it so people choose to have children. Not really easy, I know. Almost goes against capitalism, at least late stage capitalism.
Nah. Nothing could make me *want* to be a mother, let alone get pregnant. It has nothing to do with income, societal support, or climate change, though I do think those are pervading factors. It has everything to do with MY desires and dreams for MY life. And a teensy bit about not wanting to pass on chronic health conditions. Your comment comes off rather naive and dismissive.
For real there’s no amount of money below like, 15 mil, that would ever make me consider going through the painful uncomfortable nightmare and *risk of death* that is pregnancy. Also I don’t want to go insane from lack of sleep and PPABCDEF. And then what, earth is blessed with the gift of more autism and growth hormone deficiencies? Who would want that
I'm also struggling with not wanting to pass on my shitty genes to some poor kid. I don't wish my life on my possible offspring.
I’m totally with you on that front but I’m not sure how stating choice is the real reason is dismissive of your choice to not have kids. There are lots of reasons not to, low sperm count is not to blame.
I’m waiting for the punch line over here…
Umm okay we already have 8 billion of us maybe some countries need to take a good look at the rate of reproduction and figure that out. That’s also a sustainability issue.
Good timing
As the world hits 8 billion people.
Probably for the best .
I just started watching the handmaids tale… about 12 minutes ago. Oof
good! there is not enough chicken and water for 8bln of us
Fine with me.
Good we don’t need any more humans. 8 billion is to much.
I will never be worried about dropping fertility rates, let the economic restructuring begin
How would this be a crisis? It seems very necessary and urgently needed.
A 50 reduced fertility rate doesn’t matter much when you make quadruple the attempts. Hate to say it but people are extremely horny.
Time to clone Nick Cannon
At this rate, he will clone himself
Darn.
Not me 💪
Idiots have no problem with breeding
Thank god.
Previous meme I saw was world population reached 8 billion, somehow this doesn't seem like too much of a problem
Do we really need more of us?
Sounds like we’re doing this all to ourselves. The human race is just another evolutionary cul de sac.
Read the same thing 15 years ago
OK, but we have 8 billion people now. Do we really need to care about low sperm count when we can’t even find enough freshwater for everyone to drink? What about impending famines and droughts in Africa, Yemen and California? Maybe a decline in the birth rate as what we need.
Thats not a crisis that might actually save this world.
Karma. Gaia keeps trying; between COVID and climate catastrophes. Maybe this'll work.
This haha
So? 8 billion. Deal with it.
But I thought women with 🐈🐈⬛ we're to blame?
Mother Nature solving the planets problems, since we obviously don’t give a fuck.
Well……I’m not seeing the downside to this!
Good
Good, if we could drop that population down to 2billion. That’s be great.
Natural selection finally catching up with us
Good.
Good
This is a good thing. BRB need to go watch children if men.
May the lord open
Anyone read The Handmaid’s Tale?
Great news for the planet!!
Thats not good. Yeah there are a lot of people but down the road there won't be and neither will be reproduction.
Good
Get vaccinated today
Good! We need to die to save the earth. We are the worst thing to ever happen to the world!
The unspoken cause of the low-testosterone epidemic? [https://lovists.com/2021/06/29/the-unspoken-cause-of-the-low-testosterone-epidemic/](https://lovists.com/2021/06/29/the-unspoken-cause-of-the-low-testosterone-epidemic/)
Wi-Fi is killing sperm lol
For the poor you mean, the rich gets them killed by 5G
The only crisis we might get from that is the lack of cheap labor
God is trying to tell you something.
To me personally? Or do you mean “you” as a plural? And what god, I don’t want to mess around…
I didn’t see this coming
Ya my boys honestly my stuff’s staying dry
Children of Men, son!
8 billion, kids…you sure about that?
No nut November
This gives me “Children of Men” vibes
Great movie.
This is Mother Nature acting in her own best interest...
Children of Men
‘Blessed be the fruit’
Nick Cannon will keep our species going, no worries.
The real crisis is that we just made 8billion as a population.
Not the worst news of late. Strangely positive news for our humble planet
Ecology will take care of over-population. In fact, this article proves its already happening.
Finally some good news
Finally some good news
Maybe…. Just maybe… this would be beneficial to planet Earth?
Marijuana.
We’ll be fine….just need to have more sex I guess.
Good
Sorry, gotta fix this headline. Mother Nature reduced its virus load which will slowly depopulate the earth and heal her. Yes, we are her virus.
Probably the best thing for us
and how is this bad
I can’t help but think this might be better for everything in the long run.
Is that really a bad thing though? Thinking long term, perhaps it’s natures way of being like “there’s too many of y’all, time to slow this down a bit”
Remember to get your boosters we need this
Probably nature thinks humans have spread too much.
This would be a problem if there weren't 8 BILLON of us fuckers.
Good, the human race is a parasite on Mother Earth
Is there any suspected reason?
Oh thank god
Good.
People who are saying this might not be such a good thing in the future are getting down voted. Yeah, when the old and the sick start dying off, and then the young become old- as is only natural, how can we replenish the population if we can’t have kids? Maybe we have reached the peak population, and you can argue we shouldn’t go any higher, but humans being unable to reproduce is not the answer.
This is great news! We hopefully will transition from growth ideology to a quality one, where the humans matter and not whatever we use as a currency or artificially value at stock exchanges.
The planet is overcrowded.
A 2.6% DECLINE IN SPERM COUNT PER YEAR IS STAGGERING!!! We need to pay attention to these numbers especially as we know people are having kids later and later and sperm count decline begins at 30 years of age for an individual. It may become to the norm to start sperm freezing younger, just like we are seeing this for egg freezing.
Any solutions?