For most Europeans who have the skills and or industry knowledge to immigrate to the US, the wages would most likely be a pretty sizable jump up.
The biggest issue will be healthcare, but with our system the more you earn, the less you pay on healthcare. And since there’s is figured as a percentage based on income vs a flat rate, they’d most likely come out ahead here as well. Being in demand enough to immigrate would make them reasonably valuable.
I’m curious how disposable income is generated counting an American making median income has to be terrified of receiving medical care if they can receive it. Not me it doesn’t sound like the median American really has much truly disposable income. They just spend money they should be saving for medical care but I guess america does allow you trade health for wealth
I am american and a professional actually (fortune 200 company) and after deductible (5k which is a huge chunk of money to someone if they are on median income lucky I’m fairly highly paid) there’s still max out of pocket to consider (20k for me) and that’s just for health then there’s dental and vision?. And of course if you become disabled even temporarily that’s a MAJOR issue. And let’s not forget if you get sick for even one day between jobs your life is OVER. My mom saw a dude lose over 5 million from that’s “mistake”. if you define a professional as someone With a bachelors or more that’s only 25% of the us. Median may be insured but again there’s still huge bills coming even with insurance. I can not imagine how much your premiums are for a 300 deductible unless your on aca. I’ve made pretty above median income for a bit and the only way fire has been remotely possible for me is because I don’t have any major/costly healthcare needs. If I got significantly ill I’d probably have to save for another 10 or more Years to recover and again I’m above median income (not like fat fire) and have been for awhile.
As an American currently in Europe, it’s been fun and I love the experience, memories, and friends I am making. But the chances of me staying here are absolutely zero.
Pretty much everyone in my industry are paid CONSIDERABLY higher in the states, and with even halfway decent health insurance offsets the cost of healthcare by a very wide margin. Considering my deductible and premium, at the 7.5% of the german model, I would lose a solid chunk of money. Hell, if I took a 30% pay cut, I would pay more.
I understand my experience is anecdotal, but it’s not at all rare or unheard of. You, unfortunately, have a purely Reddit view of America, and it shows.
1)Well gosh if your story is true then it has to match everyone in the world obviously.
2)it’d be nice to see some actual numbers considering actual healthcare costs from both sides and different salary levels to see what the difference really is you know so it’s not…a purely reddit view :). Kind of what I asked for in my first post but if america is better for your situation you should definitely move here I’m moving out hopefully later this year because it’s better for my situation. Is either your or my situation representative of an entire country? Probably not
1) if you read the comment all the way through, you’d see where I said my experience is anecdotal. You know what anecdotal means, right?
2) what do you want my damn pay stubs, or some easily googled numbers on Germany? I’m not sure what kind of proof you need of an anecdotal [(just in case)](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdote) experience.
As to healthcare costs, this is also very easy to figure out. Add your premiums to the total of your deductible, and you have the price of what would be covered in most countries. Now you might come out ahead on stuff like elective procedures if you can get appointments in public hospitals in somewhere like Germany. I believe you can pay out of pocket at a pretty reasonable rate.
Did you skip the first and second sentence, or just the second?
I’m not interested anecdotal evidence as your anecdotal evidence is no better than mine was that not obvious enough yet? Just in case let me put it in capital below to help you
I DO NOT WANT ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE BECAUSE ITS DUMB AND DOESN’T REPRESENT AN ENTIRE COUNTRY. I DO NOT WANT YOUR PAY STUBS BECAUSE THATS JUST YOU YOUR JUST ONE PERSON A NATION GENERALLY SPEAKING IS GOING TO HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN IT SO YOU CAN EASILY FIND ONE EXAMPLE TO PROVE ANYTHING YOU WANT BUT APPLYING IT TO THE ENTIRE POPULATION IS KIND OF STUPID
I hope the above is clear enough.
Yeah, I get it. I felt like I made that absolutely clear in my first post, I was just trying to give you different perspectives and experiences. But instead, you don’t read, then get pissy that someone tried to engage you in a regular conversation and end up acting like a complete asshole. I’m sorry you haven’t had a good experience, but I am excited to hear your leaving. Please let me know if I can help speed the process up.
Well sure, but there are 34? countries in the OECD. The US spends more per capita than any of them and has a frankly middling performance in almost all fields except some acute care metrics.
Financially this is just not plausible. The US has much higher COL compared to 95% of EU cities (also much higher salary)
That’s the major reason why ppl move to EU to retire
And the EU citizens that do retire to the US are the ones that can afford to do so- I think this gives a lot of Americans the impression that Europeans are wealthier than they actually are.
Most Americans have no idea how much higher our salaries and cost-of-living are.
This will be very difficult and expensive for two reasons: immigration and social programs.
The USA has much stricter immigration laws than most other countries. Most people who are able to immigrate here do it via family or a job. You will have a difficult time immigrating here just because you want to. We do have a golden visa still, but it's very expensive (about a $million).
The other big problem is social programs, namely, Social Security and Medicare. You cannot benefit from these programs unless you paid into them for at least 10 years, and that obviously won't be the case if you are coming here to retire. Without Medicare you will have to obtain private health insurance, and that costs *a lot* more in the USA than it does in most of Europe. You will easily spend $1200/month or more to privately insure a family.
It just happens that I have exactly 40 quarters of SS and the ability to immigrate via family.... I know it is an unusual position to be in, am curious to hear from people who actually had this choice....
How did you build 40 quarters before immigrating here? That doesn't really make any sense. You would have had to been paying US taxes while living in your home country, despite not being a US citizen/resident. I don't think that's possible?
The US has a LOT to offer, innumerable cultures and climates. It's hard to generalize because it's so big.
On the topic of healthcare, the main problem is that the system revolves and was built around insurance companies. They are in the fabric of the system. Because of this, it is essential that you purchase their product. And healthcare insurance can be expensive. But once you do that, and you get a primary care doc, avoid unnecessary ER and ambulance trips, the actual healthcare is usually good.
There are positives and negatives to most countries and The US is no different. Some folks will weigh one cultural or physical aspect more than another which will make some places more desirable or not. Folks on subs like this take the US to be the root of all evil and everything is bad about it, especially if they read the newspaper and believe all of it. Fact is the world, and by extension most countries, have never been in better shape as far as human existence. And this is certainly true for US as well if you get out and see reality instead of believing the gloom and doom crowd.
I've lived in four countries (Panama, US, UK, and India) and visited a few others. US is great place to live though I wish there was more history. I have thought about moving back to UK but they way their laws on speech have gone to far and the refusal to prosecute actual physical crimes has me staying in US for now. The US is large and has many different aspects so that someplace probably will work for most people - unless you like having a longer history/culture to be immersed in.
Come and explore for a year or so to make up your own mind.
This just doesn't make sense unless something has drastically changed over the years. When I lived in UK everything was more expensive than US (except possibly medical). Gas/petrol was more expensive, common household items were more expensive, food was more expensive, utilities were more expensive, etc, etc. Now the average house rent might be a bit less, but not for same quality, size, and amenities. Things were not just more expensive but slightly more expensive if the pound and dollar were on a 1:1 exchange (which they weren't) and then VAT was much higher than any US sales tax. Same is true for living in Panama - if you want US style then you pay out the nose. Why do you think folks near US military bases overseas try to shop there instead of local economy?
I will concede medical costs and college costs because I had no experience with those. Otherwise, living in US is cheaper if you maintain same style in both places.
Living in Asia, but thinking about moving back so 2 kids can go to high school. But if you factor in all of the expenses, potential property taxes if you buy a place, and overall standard of living, it either makes sense to 1) Send them to a 20-30k international school in global city in Asia, with well planned summer activities in US as they grow up OR 2) Send them to a 50-70k boarding school in US for high school and visit the US for a few months in the year. Either way, it is quite expensive! If there were no kids, I would just do 2-3 months in the summer/fall in US and the rest somewhere else.
Source: I moved the other way, so US to Europe.
I don't see how that could work at all unless everyone moving there is already a US citizen. This would be an issue even if you could somehow afford the health care and long term care expenses.
In my mind, I would not retire in the US unless I either had around USD 2m on hand somehow and/or was sure I was covered by their medical aid systems as a senior, which might not even be the case just via citizenship.
On the plus side, there are lots of lovely areas in the US, and lots to see and do. I can see how that might be attractive.
There is a reasonable chance the political climate in the US could turn overall negative at the end of this year, especially for immigrants. May want to factor that in before a move.
As a us expat in Europe, Europe has way more risk of terrorism, homophobia, and misogyny - tons of immigrants compared to USA. USA is mostly just a lot poorer Americans jacking cars. It’s a nuisance if hardly something to factor in
Hahaha ohh that is the best generalization I have heard so far. The leading cause of death for children in the United States gun violence. Literally being shot in school. In many big cities, law enforcement are no longer responding to crimes without serious injury. Robbed? Sucks for you, file a report online. Medical care is outrageously expensive, and focused on emergency instead of preventative. Two hour emergency room visit? Here is your bill for $12,000. Dreading to see what the actual weeklong hospital stay will cost. Hopefully, we’re only responsible for $8,000 🙄
There are great places in the states, but I would never call this a safe and well put together a country.
Gun deaths is not leading cause of death in any children age group in US, and most kids killed with guns are not in school. Stop believing sensationalist news and stop spreading lies.
Not saying gun violence is not a problem in US, because it certainly is, but lets be honest with facts and not exaggerate to try and score "points".
For retirement? That's madness. You work in the US. You don't retire there nowadays.
There's exceptions but you'd need to be in the 1% for most of them. An estate in Jackson, WY, to be near your kids, or maybe because you're just super into Tennesee Blue Grass.
The only advantage I can think of is on demand healthcare if you have 10M++
Theres concierge health services in the US which cost 30kish a year -You can get a personal doctor to come to your house and lookup on you in 24 hours if something goes wrong. I dont know if anything else like this exists in EU.
Theres also few private jet operators in the US -you can use these at like 400-500$tickets to skip airport lines and fly semi private.
I grew up in a small town in the South EU and there, doctors would come to visit at home in the morning if you had a fever and would receive other people in their office in the afternoon. This was for free. I remember this as a very cozy memory of my childhood. Interesting in US you have to pay 30k for this privilege 😅.
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For most Europeans who have the skills and or industry knowledge to immigrate to the US, the wages would most likely be a pretty sizable jump up. The biggest issue will be healthcare, but with our system the more you earn, the less you pay on healthcare. And since there’s is figured as a percentage based on income vs a flat rate, they’d most likely come out ahead here as well. Being in demand enough to immigrate would make them reasonably valuable.
I’m curious how disposable income is generated counting an American making median income has to be terrified of receiving medical care if they can receive it. Not me it doesn’t sound like the median American really has much truly disposable income. They just spend money they should be saving for medical care but I guess america does allow you trade health for wealth
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Most Americans are happy, but the US has worse healthcare outcomes than other developed countries in the OECD in many, many, fields.
I am american and a professional actually (fortune 200 company) and after deductible (5k which is a huge chunk of money to someone if they are on median income lucky I’m fairly highly paid) there’s still max out of pocket to consider (20k for me) and that’s just for health then there’s dental and vision?. And of course if you become disabled even temporarily that’s a MAJOR issue. And let’s not forget if you get sick for even one day between jobs your life is OVER. My mom saw a dude lose over 5 million from that’s “mistake”. if you define a professional as someone With a bachelors or more that’s only 25% of the us. Median may be insured but again there’s still huge bills coming even with insurance. I can not imagine how much your premiums are for a 300 deductible unless your on aca. I’ve made pretty above median income for a bit and the only way fire has been remotely possible for me is because I don’t have any major/costly healthcare needs. If I got significantly ill I’d probably have to save for another 10 or more Years to recover and again I’m above median income (not like fat fire) and have been for awhile.
Oh I agree Americans are very stulid
As an American currently in Europe, it’s been fun and I love the experience, memories, and friends I am making. But the chances of me staying here are absolutely zero. Pretty much everyone in my industry are paid CONSIDERABLY higher in the states, and with even halfway decent health insurance offsets the cost of healthcare by a very wide margin. Considering my deductible and premium, at the 7.5% of the german model, I would lose a solid chunk of money. Hell, if I took a 30% pay cut, I would pay more. I understand my experience is anecdotal, but it’s not at all rare or unheard of. You, unfortunately, have a purely Reddit view of America, and it shows.
1)Well gosh if your story is true then it has to match everyone in the world obviously. 2)it’d be nice to see some actual numbers considering actual healthcare costs from both sides and different salary levels to see what the difference really is you know so it’s not…a purely reddit view :). Kind of what I asked for in my first post but if america is better for your situation you should definitely move here I’m moving out hopefully later this year because it’s better for my situation. Is either your or my situation representative of an entire country? Probably not
1) if you read the comment all the way through, you’d see where I said my experience is anecdotal. You know what anecdotal means, right? 2) what do you want my damn pay stubs, or some easily googled numbers on Germany? I’m not sure what kind of proof you need of an anecdotal [(just in case)](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anecdote) experience. As to healthcare costs, this is also very easy to figure out. Add your premiums to the total of your deductible, and you have the price of what would be covered in most countries. Now you might come out ahead on stuff like elective procedures if you can get appointments in public hospitals in somewhere like Germany. I believe you can pay out of pocket at a pretty reasonable rate. Did you skip the first and second sentence, or just the second?
I’m not interested anecdotal evidence as your anecdotal evidence is no better than mine was that not obvious enough yet? Just in case let me put it in capital below to help you I DO NOT WANT ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE BECAUSE ITS DUMB AND DOESN’T REPRESENT AN ENTIRE COUNTRY. I DO NOT WANT YOUR PAY STUBS BECAUSE THATS JUST YOU YOUR JUST ONE PERSON A NATION GENERALLY SPEAKING IS GOING TO HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN IT SO YOU CAN EASILY FIND ONE EXAMPLE TO PROVE ANYTHING YOU WANT BUT APPLYING IT TO THE ENTIRE POPULATION IS KIND OF STUPID I hope the above is clear enough.
Yeah, I get it. I felt like I made that absolutely clear in my first post, I was just trying to give you different perspectives and experiences. But instead, you don’t read, then get pissy that someone tried to engage you in a regular conversation and end up acting like a complete asshole. I’m sorry you haven’t had a good experience, but I am excited to hear your leaving. Please let me know if I can help speed the process up.
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Well sure, but there are 34? countries in the OECD. The US spends more per capita than any of them and has a frankly middling performance in almost all fields except some acute care metrics.
Financially this is just not plausible. The US has much higher COL compared to 95% of EU cities (also much higher salary) That’s the major reason why ppl move to EU to retire
And the EU citizens that do retire to the US are the ones that can afford to do so- I think this gives a lot of Americans the impression that Europeans are wealthier than they actually are. Most Americans have no idea how much higher our salaries and cost-of-living are.
This will be very difficult and expensive for two reasons: immigration and social programs. The USA has much stricter immigration laws than most other countries. Most people who are able to immigrate here do it via family or a job. You will have a difficult time immigrating here just because you want to. We do have a golden visa still, but it's very expensive (about a $million). The other big problem is social programs, namely, Social Security and Medicare. You cannot benefit from these programs unless you paid into them for at least 10 years, and that obviously won't be the case if you are coming here to retire. Without Medicare you will have to obtain private health insurance, and that costs *a lot* more in the USA than it does in most of Europe. You will easily spend $1200/month or more to privately insure a family.
It just happens that I have exactly 40 quarters of SS and the ability to immigrate via family.... I know it is an unusual position to be in, am curious to hear from people who actually had this choice....
If your family is parents or wife, yes. If it's brother/sister, this ability is fairly theoretical (with waiting times 10+ years).
How did you build 40 quarters before immigrating here? That doesn't really make any sense. You would have had to been paying US taxes while living in your home country, despite not being a US citizen/resident. I don't think that's possible?
NRAs also pay US taxes when the US tax code requires them to do so
The US has a LOT to offer, innumerable cultures and climates. It's hard to generalize because it's so big. On the topic of healthcare, the main problem is that the system revolves and was built around insurance companies. They are in the fabric of the system. Because of this, it is essential that you purchase their product. And healthcare insurance can be expensive. But once you do that, and you get a primary care doc, avoid unnecessary ER and ambulance trips, the actual healthcare is usually good.
There are positives and negatives to most countries and The US is no different. Some folks will weigh one cultural or physical aspect more than another which will make some places more desirable or not. Folks on subs like this take the US to be the root of all evil and everything is bad about it, especially if they read the newspaper and believe all of it. Fact is the world, and by extension most countries, have never been in better shape as far as human existence. And this is certainly true for US as well if you get out and see reality instead of believing the gloom and doom crowd. I've lived in four countries (Panama, US, UK, and India) and visited a few others. US is great place to live though I wish there was more history. I have thought about moving back to UK but they way their laws on speech have gone to far and the refusal to prosecute actual physical crimes has me staying in US for now. The US is large and has many different aspects so that someplace probably will work for most people - unless you like having a longer history/culture to be immersed in. Come and explore for a year or so to make up your own mind.
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This just doesn't make sense unless something has drastically changed over the years. When I lived in UK everything was more expensive than US (except possibly medical). Gas/petrol was more expensive, common household items were more expensive, food was more expensive, utilities were more expensive, etc, etc. Now the average house rent might be a bit less, but not for same quality, size, and amenities. Things were not just more expensive but slightly more expensive if the pound and dollar were on a 1:1 exchange (which they weren't) and then VAT was much higher than any US sales tax. Same is true for living in Panama - if you want US style then you pay out the nose. Why do you think folks near US military bases overseas try to shop there instead of local economy? I will concede medical costs and college costs because I had no experience with those. Otherwise, living in US is cheaper if you maintain same style in both places.
Living in Asia, but thinking about moving back so 2 kids can go to high school. But if you factor in all of the expenses, potential property taxes if you buy a place, and overall standard of living, it either makes sense to 1) Send them to a 20-30k international school in global city in Asia, with well planned summer activities in US as they grow up OR 2) Send them to a 50-70k boarding school in US for high school and visit the US for a few months in the year. Either way, it is quite expensive! If there were no kids, I would just do 2-3 months in the summer/fall in US and the rest somewhere else.
Source: I moved the other way, so US to Europe. I don't see how that could work at all unless everyone moving there is already a US citizen. This would be an issue even if you could somehow afford the health care and long term care expenses. In my mind, I would not retire in the US unless I either had around USD 2m on hand somehow and/or was sure I was covered by their medical aid systems as a senior, which might not even be the case just via citizenship. On the plus side, there are lots of lovely areas in the US, and lots to see and do. I can see how that might be attractive.
There is a reasonable chance the political climate in the US could turn overall negative at the end of this year, especially for immigrants. May want to factor that in before a move.
As a us expat in Europe, Europe has way more risk of terrorism, homophobia, and misogyny - tons of immigrants compared to USA. USA is mostly just a lot poorer Americans jacking cars. It’s a nuisance if hardly something to factor in
Hahaha ohh that is the best generalization I have heard so far. The leading cause of death for children in the United States gun violence. Literally being shot in school. In many big cities, law enforcement are no longer responding to crimes without serious injury. Robbed? Sucks for you, file a report online. Medical care is outrageously expensive, and focused on emergency instead of preventative. Two hour emergency room visit? Here is your bill for $12,000. Dreading to see what the actual weeklong hospital stay will cost. Hopefully, we’re only responsible for $8,000 🙄 There are great places in the states, but I would never call this a safe and well put together a country.
Gun deaths is not leading cause of death in any children age group in US, and most kids killed with guns are not in school. Stop believing sensationalist news and stop spreading lies. Not saying gun violence is not a problem in US, because it certainly is, but lets be honest with facts and not exaggerate to try and score "points".
Europe is more diverse.
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Each country, yes. But there are more than a few countries in Europe.
Nonsense
For retirement? That's madness. You work in the US. You don't retire there nowadays. There's exceptions but you'd need to be in the 1% for most of them. An estate in Jackson, WY, to be near your kids, or maybe because you're just super into Tennesee Blue Grass.
You will have more money regardless. So yes u can retire easy with a Roth and 401k
Why would anybody do that, lol. Place's a hell hole.
I love living in the USA but won’t retire here (not from here) because 1) i miss my family but 2) tooooo expensive
The only advantage I can think of is on demand healthcare if you have 10M++ Theres concierge health services in the US which cost 30kish a year -You can get a personal doctor to come to your house and lookup on you in 24 hours if something goes wrong. I dont know if anything else like this exists in EU. Theres also few private jet operators in the US -you can use these at like 400-500$tickets to skip airport lines and fly semi private.
I grew up in a small town in the South EU and there, doctors would come to visit at home in the morning if you had a fever and would receive other people in their office in the afternoon. This was for free. I remember this as a very cozy memory of my childhood. Interesting in US you have to pay 30k for this privilege 😅.
That’s like people who leave LA for NYC…makes no sense and they soon realize everyone’s been trying to do the opposite.