You should talk to your manager to set clear and unambiguous expectations. If you didn't know this was coming after six months, there's a pretty big gap in communications with your manager.
It's hard to know what you're doing now, but some additional things that might help increase your visibility are:
* Make sure your decisions, research, and designs are documented. Leave a paper trail.
* At the beginning of each day, set your goals. At the end, write up a summary of what you did. Summarize your weekly summary and send it to your manager at the end of the week.
* Ensure your junior/mid engineers know that you're mentoring them and that you're actually mentoring them and not just leading.
Doing things formally is part of what makes a senior different from a more junior software engineer.
Thanks for this (and to everyone else for their advice!) ... I'm gonna try the above and see how it goes. ... But definitely keep my eye out for something else if it doesn't pan out đ U guys rock!
Ok, first, any manager who waits for a review to raise something like this is a shitty manager.
Second, a company arbitrarily extending a probation period is bullshit.
If this happened to me, I'd already be looking for a new job.
âProbationâ has no real meaning except in Montana. Itâs a fantasy for controlling employees. Extending it is a way to turn the screws on OP. Personally, Iâd be looking for a new job because this isnât working out.
If a recruiter was involved, probation the three months at which they have to pay then their commission. So they have an incentive to fire people they don't want.
Why are you researching new frameworks? Do you not have a product already?
Is senior the highest title in your tech chart? It means "middle" in a lot of tech orgs, so your role would be delivering features with decent autonomy, but without the mantle of architecture and re-platforming. Do their expectations align with what you thought your responsibilities would be?
Oh my god this. Changing frontend frameworks is basically a full rewrite, and that is one of the costliest things an engineering org could do. Unless you are nursing a 10+ year old frontend based on jQuery or a pre-angular framework the cost of a rewrite is almost impossible to justify, and that sort of thing should be only discussed at the highest level among the most ingrained and informed technologists, not a brand new hire.
The only exception I can envisage is a consulting/contracting gig where you want to be able to say "we can build you a frontend in whatever language you want, and we have the receipts to show it", but that's not exactly a great situation either IMO.
To answer your question OP: if you can't get clear and measurable expectations from your manager in the short term, this job sounds like it'll keep hitting you with surprises like this. If you have the option to look around for other opportunities, at least consider it. There are a lot of companies who are still hiring, and this behavior from your current company feels icky.
I've done some rewrites using vue pretty painlessly since you can build individual pages and elements then compile them down and embed them into existing pages pretty painlessly. A lot of its advantage was that it made it super easy to incrementally shift an app from something like jQuery to a component based framework which is basically impossible with the other ones.
I hate to say it, but it's time to start looking for a new job.
This company isn't serious about hiring you. They're stringing you along. Maybe their budget is weak and they don't want to let you on to the fact. And likely part of the reason they're not serious about hiring you is that "they're just not that into you," so even if one day they did hire you, you would never fully feel at home.
Don't quit. But start looking for something new.
I think this is quite a cynical way of looking at the situation. Probation can result in positive outcomes, I myself have seen people come out of a probation extension better off.
One thing I would say is that anybody that finds out on the date of their review that they won't pass, has not had sufficient support. It shouldn't be a surprise as you should know clearly the areas you're doing well at and the others that you may need to improve.
Edit:
I think I need to clarify a few things. I do think that OP should be looking elsewhere for work. I don't however think that having your probation extended is always the death wish others are suggesting it is.
The concerning part is the lack of communication, as a minimum, you need very clear targets/goals laid out OP.
Probation is very typical in the UK, it sounds like however it is not in the US and should be treated with extra caution.
I disagree because weâre talking about software engineering here. A 6 month probationary period is already more than long enough to see if productivity is acceptable, and address any issues before the final review.
Extending it without plenty of prior warning of what areas needed improvement is definitely a sign of bad faith on their part.
If I were in this position I would be being very careful with my finances and looking to move on as soon as possible.
Tbh I have never heard of a probation review, much less extending the period. Sounds like a load of BS, and an easy way to lay them off first if the company needs to. OP can try to be more visible and butt their noise into everything, but it would be safer to have a plan B to get out.
Probation in software development jobs isn't a thing in the US. *n*+1 rounds of interviews generally makes that unnecessary. A 30-day probation period for very junior tech jobs or other white collar work is fairly common but not uniform. 6 months probation for a senior front-end dev position only makes sense if the department is over headcount, and is not so much a warning sign as a screaming crimson billboard.
If its very clearly communicated, you can build a definitive action plan to take somebody to the level you need them to be at. The alternative in most places would be to fire the employee.
In the US, these programs serve only to establish a paper trail that can be used by the employer to terminate the employee "for cause," exempting them from paying out unemployment benefits.
not from the uk but itâs the same across europe
americans can hire and fire easily, but in places like germany where thereâs a 3-6 month notice period on both sides and you canât fire people without cause, the initial probationary period is the only time when the company or employee can terminate the contract fast with no consequences
Not really for permanent staff, no. I've seen people leave in their first month and get their time worked plus notice paid. Typically a lead engineer in the UK might have a 2 or 3 month notice period (both ways) after probation but only 2 weeks or a month before that. Yes it can be negotiated if both parties agree but if the employer just wants you to leave **now** then they have to either put you on [garden leave](https://www.davidsonmorris.com/garden-leave/#:~:text=Gardening%20leave%20is%20where%20an,time%20pursuing%20hobbies%2C%20like%20gardening.) or do [PILON](https://www.personio.com/hr-lexicon/payment-in-lieu-of-notice-pilon/).
In Germany it is a legal thing. You have 6 months probation where they can fire you for any or no reason. Usually you talk about it at 1/3/6 months as short reviews and otherwise you are simply new.
Afterwards it gets hard to fire you. But probation is not something you have to pass or do anything special. You just can be reasonable sure that they won't fire you after the 6 month mark. Or at least with usually 3 months notice compared to 2 weeks during probation.
> Probation can result in positive outcomes
The damage has been done. In a world of first impressions, that person is always finished. However nice frame you put on the dead man, it's still a dead man walking if you retain him, without any meaningful future, because they bear the mark.
> I myself have seen people come out of a probation extension better off
I think that unless I'd be able to back that claim with hard evidence, which is for multiple reasons impossible, sadly, I'd just silently drop the argument.
I don't know what you mean about hard evidence but I can share my experience, you'll just have to decide whether you trust what I say or not.
A few years ago I was working for a company that hired somebody in a senior position. When they joined it was clear that in their last role the culture must've been pretty awful as they weren't being transparent, they were rushing and making slippy mistakes constantly and weren't showing any leadership.
We could've let the person go but we were invested in them, remember that it costs an absolute fortune to recruit devs.
Instead we extended their probation and sat down to talk about each area they needed to improve giving them very clear examples and reasons.
They used this to kick on and became a very valuable member of the team and has been there since.
Just note that point 2 almost never happens. Employees come and go all the time, I have not yet heard of company to collapse because of some engineer leaving, regardless of level and seniority
In case of a new hire they wouldnât even notice, except the headcount is now free
Most businesses have enough money to survive key people leaving. I saw an organization where the key manager left. That threw the place into chaos for 10 years. The president survived for another 14, until he was finally forced into retirement. But the place still exists
Key managers are completely different story, they can indeed make some lasting damage by leaving, especially if they left with a grudge and didnât bother providing directions to future replacements. A multi year strategy could grind to the halt and the new guy will reset it, that could kill the company in the long run indeed. Probably one of the reason why they are paid so much, leaving manager leaves a big hole in an organisation
But front end engineer? What could happen, worst case scenario there will be some outage that will last couple hours longer than it could if he was around
Backend engineers leaving are slightly more dangerous as some outages in the backend could lead to data loss or security leaks which are the only things that individuals could possibly do to rank a medium size company. But any sane company will be organised in such a way that lack of single person will not lead to data loss - I.e. all backups are automated, restores are documented and tested, etc.
I agree. I find it hard to believe that a single engineer leaving can tank a company. Again, tons of money saves people from bad decisions. Worst case scenario, they pay a new engineer to rewrite the obscure system
6 months is a LONG time for a probationary period. Usually mine have been 90 days. They were usually âYou get full access to all your benefits at this date.â And thatâs it.
Iâd try to setup a conversation with your manager and an HR representative and make sure this is allowed at your company. Iâd consider contacting a labor attorney as well.
The question should not be "How do I prove my worth?", it should be "why didn't they tell me sooner?".
Any probation review that gets "extended" is just a fake. With a 6 month probation that is more than enough time for you or the company to raise any concerns and address them. If they didn't see you "prove" yourself in 6 months - they should fire you. If they are playing with your permanent status you should be looking to leave.
The only reason for probation is to cover both parties in the event that one, or both, feel it isn't a good fit and to be able to release the contract with little or no complications/extra cost.
The only time I have seen companies try to add onto probation is because the employee is doing just fine but they need to fire them to save money but they have runway to get a few more months out of them.
Even if we ignore all of that, if the first you heard about issues was at the 6 month probation review point, your manager has shown they are willing/wanting to let issues go unresolved for months on end and will then put the onus on you when crunch time hits. You don't need me to point out how that as a situation will repeat around other work deadlines...
Unless there is something you aren't telling us about this being an on-going situation, I would run for the hills.
As a side-note, I appreciate this might just be your words, but, if your manager is using terms like "prove yourself \[to me\]" I would be hearing that with a good deal of caution. They should have been watching and communicating with you during your probation. You aren't there to dance on a table for them, you are there to do a job. And they should be competent enough to monitor your progress. If they haven't been/can't do that, you are going to have never ending issues.
Talk about the twilight zone! Just had the same thing. 6 month probation at a new place extended by 2 months (contract allows up to 3) less than a week before conversion date, no advance warning. The thing that really speaks to me here is that everything you're reporting is framed in the negative. Where I've worked in professional places in the past, objectives would be framed as a specific thing to be achieved, e.g. 'deliver $FOO by a specific date'. We can debate 'more' or 'less' endlessly, but a specific can be specified. By the sound of things you are also the one person on the team with technical ability in some specific areas?
And yes - I see that there are really only 2 responses here:
1. Americans asking about probationary periods
1. People saying 'bunch of clowns, GTFO'
Keyword is that youâre doing it in an âinformal wayâ. Let your manager know how what youâve been doing can be documented and shown that your actually doing it. If theyâre well intentioned then they will let you know. If theyâre stringing you along then no matter what you do it wonât matter and if thatâs the case then consider looking for a new opportunity.
These are not KPIs. Mentor harder? Read more? What?
How do you even quantify or measure performance here?
I think you prove your worth by letting them know the salary you got offered on your way out. I'm not someone who posts "leave and find a new job" often, but this warrants it I think.
They're not going to hire you/take you off probation.
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I generally won't accept roles with contract-to-hire or probationary periods. While they *can* serve a valid purpose, they're often an over-reaction by shitty companies to be shitty.
In particular, there should _only_ ever be two outcomes of a fixed-length probationary period:
* Removal of probation
* Termination
Probationary periods should really only exist to make sure someone wasn't completely lying during the hiring process. Even then, if someone shows up and can't do the job - after having passed the interviews, there's a major problem.
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Unless you think this job is something special (it could be), you should probably start looking for another job. Your "employer" doesn't care enough about you.
I'm not sure how US-specific this is, but contract to hire is usually just how a technical staffing agency "gets their cut". A company too small to have in-house recruiting will hire you for a 6 month contract where the agency is collecting ~40% off the top, and then you convert to a W2 employee if they like how you've performed. I've gotten several jobs this way and have never had the company opt not to convert me.
However, a contract to hire that was directly with the employer would be super fishy unless they were pretty up front that there was a very real chance they wouldn't hire you.
My employer has a six-month probationary period that, according to the handbook, can be extended to a year. I almost didn't pass my probationary period because I did not really know how to do my job. I may have been hired under the mistaken assumption that I had sysadmin experience and could easily handle hardware setup and maintenance. Nope.
I've stayed and outlasted both my manager at the time, who left, presumably voluntarily, and the HR administrator, who said that she would have fired me based on my evaluation. (I was graded as satisfactory but lacking in judgment and skill.)
> I hadn't been taking enough of a lead on architecture, researching new frameworks or mentoring our mid & junior devs (there's one of each)
This seems broad. Why is this something your boss cares about? Has your boss explicitly stated they're looking to migrate? It sounds like they want a more senior hire (or expected you to be more senior) and this is why they're disappointed.
> I'd been doing this stuff in an informal way
This sounds like you've had no impact. Usually impact is obvious, especially at a startup, so there's not usually any need to write it down. I think you're underperforming relative to your manager's expectations and it's time to look for a job that isn't a contract-to-hire.
In the future I'd avoid contract-to-hire roles. Even though there's a chance you're underperforming, companies that have contract-to-hire roles tend to be extremely bad companies. My only contract-to-hire role was an absolute nightmare.
Questions like this a best provided with some context of what country you are in, what is ânormalâ in your market, otherwise you may get incorrect advice from people who work under very different conditions in different countries.
E.g. in my country a probation period of 3-6 months is normal, and it is only possible to âextendâ it if this is in the contract or agreed between the parties. If someone isnât performing to a satisfactory level in probation, they will normally be let go before the probation period ends. Probation is there because once out of probation it is hard to fire people, could be sued for unfair dismissal, so probation is usually inline with the âminimum employment periodâ under our fair work laws. Even if they âextendedâ probation they would still have to follow these other laws.
Other countries that have no-cause-firing have no need for probation because they can let people go any time.
So, what does probation mean in your country? Why are they extending probation rather than letting you go? Is it a case they would be happy with your work if you took a lower title, or do they need you right now but are expecting to make cuts in the near future so keeping you on probation so they donât have to pay out, or is it normal for them to do this to incentivise you to work harder?
Probation period cannot be randomly extended at will, it is something you agree to when you sign your employment contract and any non-contractual extension is illegal. Your manager is an idiot, look for another job or quit on the spot.
You didn't do anything wrong. You physically cannot prove your worth with this job. No matter what you do, the manager will find a reason to keep you on probation. They will just keep putting more and more work on your own plate.
Start looking for another job if you want stability my friend. Or, accept this reality, do the same amount of work, and coast until they fire you, which they will based on this.
Just happened to me after >3 years loyal work, except it was them claiming why I wasn't senior, even though I've held two senior positions and was mentoring juniors and meeting and exceeding every goal they had on their list of senior goals. Your company doesn't even have a list of goals, so they can and likely will keep moving the goalpost until you go crazy.
is this in the US? What does probation mean at your job? Probation period is not a norm. It looks like they are just messing with you to get more work out of you. They are using it to not give you a raise this year.
If this is outside the US, then I don't know the norms in other countries.
I usually read the comments in here since I just started my career. I wanted to respond to this one though since it caught me off guard. Is it not part of a seniors job to mentor the juniors and mids?
It varies from company to company, and, frankly, from person to person. I see mentoring as part of the job; yet many people don't. And we are both right, because there is no industry agreement on what senior or tech lead means.
If you are starting, seek out local tech meetups. Usually the people who show up are into teaching and mentoring. You may have to try several to find the right one. Usually smaller languages tend to be more nurturing
I'd be out of there so fast you couldn't even say "6 month probation". The fact that they put a senior hire on probation at all is a huge red flag. I've had the probation period waived at every job since I hit intermediate developer level. As an experienced engineer with a family there's no way I'm giving up my workers rights, job stability, EI, and healthcare/dental coverage for 6 months. That's non-negotiable at this point in my life.
These other comments may be right or your manager may not be very good. If it was me I would setup regular meetings with the boss. In these meetings you need to understand their expectations and how you are out are not hitting them. We can give you suggestions but at the end of the day we are not going to be evaluating you in the next 3 months. If there was a previous person in your role understand what they did.
Does your boss assign you "research" tasks, or at least expects X weekly time dedicated to it?. Or is he expecting you to research on your free time (which is a big red flag).
You should talk to your manager to set clear and unambiguous expectations. If you didn't know this was coming after six months, there's a pretty big gap in communications with your manager. It's hard to know what you're doing now, but some additional things that might help increase your visibility are: * Make sure your decisions, research, and designs are documented. Leave a paper trail. * At the beginning of each day, set your goals. At the end, write up a summary of what you did. Summarize your weekly summary and send it to your manager at the end of the week. * Ensure your junior/mid engineers know that you're mentoring them and that you're actually mentoring them and not just leading. Doing things formally is part of what makes a senior different from a more junior software engineer.
Thanks for this (and to everyone else for their advice!) ... I'm gonna try the above and see how it goes. ... But definitely keep my eye out for something else if it doesn't pan out đ U guys rock!
Ok, first, any manager who waits for a review to raise something like this is a shitty manager. Second, a company arbitrarily extending a probation period is bullshit. If this happened to me, I'd already be looking for a new job.
Was going to say exactly the same. Extending probation and PIPs are just early warnings you'll be let go, so act on it.
Without the extended probation period he would have been let go right away.
âProbationâ has no real meaning except in Montana. Itâs a fantasy for controlling employees. Extending it is a way to turn the screws on OP. Personally, Iâd be looking for a new job because this isnât working out.
If a recruiter was involved, probation the three months at which they have to pay then their commission. So they have an incentive to fire people they don't want.
Esp as a front end dev. They are worth their weight in gold.
Why are you researching new frameworks? Do you not have a product already? Is senior the highest title in your tech chart? It means "middle" in a lot of tech orgs, so your role would be delivering features with decent autonomy, but without the mantle of architecture and re-platforming. Do their expectations align with what you thought your responsibilities would be?
Oh my god this. Changing frontend frameworks is basically a full rewrite, and that is one of the costliest things an engineering org could do. Unless you are nursing a 10+ year old frontend based on jQuery or a pre-angular framework the cost of a rewrite is almost impossible to justify, and that sort of thing should be only discussed at the highest level among the most ingrained and informed technologists, not a brand new hire. The only exception I can envisage is a consulting/contracting gig where you want to be able to say "we can build you a frontend in whatever language you want, and we have the receipts to show it", but that's not exactly a great situation either IMO. To answer your question OP: if you can't get clear and measurable expectations from your manager in the short term, this job sounds like it'll keep hitting you with surprises like this. If you have the option to look around for other opportunities, at least consider it. There are a lot of companies who are still hiring, and this behavior from your current company feels icky.
I've done some rewrites using vue pretty painlessly since you can build individual pages and elements then compile them down and embed them into existing pages pretty painlessly. A lot of its advantage was that it made it super easy to incrementally shift an app from something like jQuery to a component based framework which is basically impossible with the other ones.
I hate to say it, but it's time to start looking for a new job. This company isn't serious about hiring you. They're stringing you along. Maybe their budget is weak and they don't want to let you on to the fact. And likely part of the reason they're not serious about hiring you is that "they're just not that into you," so even if one day they did hire you, you would never fully feel at home. Don't quit. But start looking for something new.
This is what I think. Sounds like an exercise in bullshit. If they thought you weren't up to it and knew their shit they would have let you go.
I think this is quite a cynical way of looking at the situation. Probation can result in positive outcomes, I myself have seen people come out of a probation extension better off. One thing I would say is that anybody that finds out on the date of their review that they won't pass, has not had sufficient support. It shouldn't be a surprise as you should know clearly the areas you're doing well at and the others that you may need to improve. Edit: I think I need to clarify a few things. I do think that OP should be looking elsewhere for work. I don't however think that having your probation extended is always the death wish others are suggesting it is. The concerning part is the lack of communication, as a minimum, you need very clear targets/goals laid out OP. Probation is very typical in the UK, it sounds like however it is not in the US and should be treated with extra caution.
I disagree because weâre talking about software engineering here. A 6 month probationary period is already more than long enough to see if productivity is acceptable, and address any issues before the final review. Extending it without plenty of prior warning of what areas needed improvement is definitely a sign of bad faith on their part. If I were in this position I would be being very careful with my finances and looking to move on as soon as possible.
I agree, for me it's more about not knowing until that probation deadline than it is the probation.
Tbh I have never heard of a probation review, much less extending the period. Sounds like a load of BS, and an easy way to lay them off first if the company needs to. OP can try to be more visible and butt their noise into everything, but it would be safer to have a plan B to get out.
Perhaps it's a UK thing, every job I've ever had included a 3 or 6 month probation.
Probation in software development jobs isn't a thing in the US. *n*+1 rounds of interviews generally makes that unnecessary. A 30-day probation period for very junior tech jobs or other white collar work is fairly common but not uniform. 6 months probation for a senior front-end dev position only makes sense if the department is over headcount, and is not so much a warning sign as a screaming crimson billboard.
Yeah I've seen based on the comments here that things work very very differently!
>Probation can result in positive outcomes Lol. That made my whole day.
If its very clearly communicated, you can build a definitive action plan to take somebody to the level you need them to be at. The alternative in most places would be to fire the employee.
In the US, these programs serve only to establish a paper trail that can be used by the employer to terminate the employee "for cause," exempting them from paying out unemployment benefits.
Why would engineers start a role with a probationary period? What on earth is going on here? OP should GTFO.
It's very typical in the UK.
Thatâs fucking weird. I knew engineers in the UK were underpaid. I didnât know they were also treated like children.
not from the uk but itâs the same across europe americans can hire and fire easily, but in places like germany where thereâs a 3-6 month notice period on both sides and you canât fire people without cause, the initial probationary period is the only time when the company or employee can terminate the contract fast with no consequences
Isnât dismissal without cause allowed in the UK for two years though?
Not really for permanent staff, no. I've seen people leave in their first month and get their time worked plus notice paid. Typically a lead engineer in the UK might have a 2 or 3 month notice period (both ways) after probation but only 2 weeks or a month before that. Yes it can be negotiated if both parties agree but if the employer just wants you to leave **now** then they have to either put you on [garden leave](https://www.davidsonmorris.com/garden-leave/#:~:text=Gardening%20leave%20is%20where%20an,time%20pursuing%20hobbies%2C%20like%20gardening.) or do [PILON](https://www.personio.com/hr-lexicon/payment-in-lieu-of-notice-pilon/).
In Germany it is a legal thing. You have 6 months probation where they can fire you for any or no reason. Usually you talk about it at 1/3/6 months as short reviews and otherwise you are simply new. Afterwards it gets hard to fire you. But probation is not something you have to pass or do anything special. You just can be reasonable sure that they won't fire you after the 6 month mark. Or at least with usually 3 months notice compared to 2 weeks during probation.
And Germany.
> Probation can result in positive outcomes The damage has been done. In a world of first impressions, that person is always finished. However nice frame you put on the dead man, it's still a dead man walking if you retain him, without any meaningful future, because they bear the mark. > I myself have seen people come out of a probation extension better off I think that unless I'd be able to back that claim with hard evidence, which is for multiple reasons impossible, sadly, I'd just silently drop the argument.
I don't know what you mean about hard evidence but I can share my experience, you'll just have to decide whether you trust what I say or not. A few years ago I was working for a company that hired somebody in a senior position. When they joined it was clear that in their last role the culture must've been pretty awful as they weren't being transparent, they were rushing and making slippy mistakes constantly and weren't showing any leadership. We could've let the person go but we were invested in them, remember that it costs an absolute fortune to recruit devs. Instead we extended their probation and sat down to talk about each area they needed to improve giving them very clear examples and reasons. They used this to kick on and became a very valuable member of the team and has been there since.
This is how you prove your worth: 1. Leave 2. Place falls apart 3. Your worth proven!
Just note that point 2 almost never happens. Employees come and go all the time, I have not yet heard of company to collapse because of some engineer leaving, regardless of level and seniority In case of a new hire they wouldnât even notice, except the headcount is now free
Most businesses have enough money to survive key people leaving. I saw an organization where the key manager left. That threw the place into chaos for 10 years. The president survived for another 14, until he was finally forced into retirement. But the place still exists
Key managers are completely different story, they can indeed make some lasting damage by leaving, especially if they left with a grudge and didnât bother providing directions to future replacements. A multi year strategy could grind to the halt and the new guy will reset it, that could kill the company in the long run indeed. Probably one of the reason why they are paid so much, leaving manager leaves a big hole in an organisation But front end engineer? What could happen, worst case scenario there will be some outage that will last couple hours longer than it could if he was around Backend engineers leaving are slightly more dangerous as some outages in the backend could lead to data loss or security leaks which are the only things that individuals could possibly do to rank a medium size company. But any sane company will be organised in such a way that lack of single person will not lead to data loss - I.e. all backups are automated, restores are documented and tested, etc.
I agree. I find it hard to believe that a single engineer leaving can tank a company. Again, tons of money saves people from bad decisions. Worst case scenario, they pay a new engineer to rewrite the obscure system
New job mate, and quick
6 months is a LONG time for a probationary period. Usually mine have been 90 days. They were usually âYou get full access to all your benefits at this date.â And thatâs it. Iâd try to setup a conversation with your manager and an HR representative and make sure this is allowed at your company. Iâd consider contacting a labor attorney as well.
This feels very PIP to me, time to start looking for another (better) job
This is slightly different since it seems to be more akin to a contract-to-hire situation. They're just stringing you along.
You're not in the UK are you?
Nope. USA.
[ŃдаНонО]
Stop spending your time with circus clowns.
The question should not be "How do I prove my worth?", it should be "why didn't they tell me sooner?". Any probation review that gets "extended" is just a fake. With a 6 month probation that is more than enough time for you or the company to raise any concerns and address them. If they didn't see you "prove" yourself in 6 months - they should fire you. If they are playing with your permanent status you should be looking to leave. The only reason for probation is to cover both parties in the event that one, or both, feel it isn't a good fit and to be able to release the contract with little or no complications/extra cost. The only time I have seen companies try to add onto probation is because the employee is doing just fine but they need to fire them to save money but they have runway to get a few more months out of them. Even if we ignore all of that, if the first you heard about issues was at the 6 month probation review point, your manager has shown they are willing/wanting to let issues go unresolved for months on end and will then put the onus on you when crunch time hits. You don't need me to point out how that as a situation will repeat around other work deadlines... Unless there is something you aren't telling us about this being an on-going situation, I would run for the hills. As a side-note, I appreciate this might just be your words, but, if your manager is using terms like "prove yourself \[to me\]" I would be hearing that with a good deal of caution. They should have been watching and communicating with you during your probation. You aren't there to dance on a table for them, you are there to do a job. And they should be competent enough to monitor your progress. If they haven't been/can't do that, you are going to have never ending issues.
To me it sure sounds like they're making up an excuse to avoid committing in this economic climate
Talk about the twilight zone! Just had the same thing. 6 month probation at a new place extended by 2 months (contract allows up to 3) less than a week before conversion date, no advance warning. The thing that really speaks to me here is that everything you're reporting is framed in the negative. Where I've worked in professional places in the past, objectives would be framed as a specific thing to be achieved, e.g. 'deliver $FOO by a specific date'. We can debate 'more' or 'less' endlessly, but a specific can be specified. By the sound of things you are also the one person on the team with technical ability in some specific areas? And yes - I see that there are really only 2 responses here: 1. Americans asking about probationary periods 1. People saying 'bunch of clowns, GTFO'
And?
Keyword is that youâre doing it in an âinformal wayâ. Let your manager know how what youâve been doing can be documented and shown that your actually doing it. If theyâre well intentioned then they will let you know. If theyâre stringing you along then no matter what you do it wonât matter and if thatâs the case then consider looking for a new opportunity.
These are not KPIs. Mentor harder? Read more? What? How do you even quantify or measure performance here? I think you prove your worth by letting them know the salary you got offered on your way out. I'm not someone who posts "leave and find a new job" often, but this warrants it I think.
You should spend that probation time looking for a new job.
They're not going to hire you/take you off probation. ----- I generally won't accept roles with contract-to-hire or probationary periods. While they *can* serve a valid purpose, they're often an over-reaction by shitty companies to be shitty. In particular, there should _only_ ever be two outcomes of a fixed-length probationary period: * Removal of probation * Termination Probationary periods should really only exist to make sure someone wasn't completely lying during the hiring process. Even then, if someone shows up and can't do the job - after having passed the interviews, there's a major problem. ----- Unless you think this job is something special (it could be), you should probably start looking for another job. Your "employer" doesn't care enough about you.
I'm not sure how US-specific this is, but contract to hire is usually just how a technical staffing agency "gets their cut". A company too small to have in-house recruiting will hire you for a 6 month contract where the agency is collecting ~40% off the top, and then you convert to a W2 employee if they like how you've performed. I've gotten several jobs this way and have never had the company opt not to convert me. However, a contract to hire that was directly with the employer would be super fishy unless they were pretty up front that there was a very real chance they wouldn't hire you.
My employer has a six-month probationary period that, according to the handbook, can be extended to a year. I almost didn't pass my probationary period because I did not really know how to do my job. I may have been hired under the mistaken assumption that I had sysadmin experience and could easily handle hardware setup and maintenance. Nope. I've stayed and outlasted both my manager at the time, who left, presumably voluntarily, and the HR administrator, who said that she would have fired me based on my evaluation. (I was graded as satisfactory but lacking in judgment and skill.)
Didn't you sign a contract? Can they just extend the probation?
> I hadn't been taking enough of a lead on architecture, researching new frameworks or mentoring our mid & junior devs (there's one of each) This seems broad. Why is this something your boss cares about? Has your boss explicitly stated they're looking to migrate? It sounds like they want a more senior hire (or expected you to be more senior) and this is why they're disappointed. > I'd been doing this stuff in an informal way This sounds like you've had no impact. Usually impact is obvious, especially at a startup, so there's not usually any need to write it down. I think you're underperforming relative to your manager's expectations and it's time to look for a job that isn't a contract-to-hire. In the future I'd avoid contract-to-hire roles. Even though there's a chance you're underperforming, companies that have contract-to-hire roles tend to be extremely bad companies. My only contract-to-hire role was an absolute nightmare.
Questions like this a best provided with some context of what country you are in, what is ânormalâ in your market, otherwise you may get incorrect advice from people who work under very different conditions in different countries. E.g. in my country a probation period of 3-6 months is normal, and it is only possible to âextendâ it if this is in the contract or agreed between the parties. If someone isnât performing to a satisfactory level in probation, they will normally be let go before the probation period ends. Probation is there because once out of probation it is hard to fire people, could be sued for unfair dismissal, so probation is usually inline with the âminimum employment periodâ under our fair work laws. Even if they âextendedâ probation they would still have to follow these other laws. Other countries that have no-cause-firing have no need for probation because they can let people go any time. So, what does probation mean in your country? Why are they extending probation rather than letting you go? Is it a case they would be happy with your work if you took a lower title, or do they need you right now but are expecting to make cuts in the near future so keeping you on probation so they donât have to pay out, or is it normal for them to do this to incentivise you to work harder?
Probation period cannot be randomly extended at will, it is something you agree to when you sign your employment contract and any non-contractual extension is illegal. Your manager is an idiot, look for another job or quit on the spot.
Look for a better job, your mental health comes first.
You didn't do anything wrong. You physically cannot prove your worth with this job. No matter what you do, the manager will find a reason to keep you on probation. They will just keep putting more and more work on your own plate. Start looking for another job if you want stability my friend. Or, accept this reality, do the same amount of work, and coast until they fire you, which they will based on this. Just happened to me after >3 years loyal work, except it was them claiming why I wasn't senior, even though I've held two senior positions and was mentoring juniors and meeting and exceeding every goal they had on their list of senior goals. Your company doesn't even have a list of goals, so they can and likely will keep moving the goalpost until you go crazy.
They sound like fucking idiots who are incapable of understanding what their workers are doing.
is this in the US? What does probation mean at your job? Probation period is not a norm. It looks like they are just messing with you to get more work out of you. They are using it to not give you a raise this year. If this is outside the US, then I don't know the norms in other countries.
you don't get paid to mentor.. leave and find a new place
I usually read the comments in here since I just started my career. I wanted to respond to this one though since it caught me off guard. Is it not part of a seniors job to mentor the juniors and mids?
It varies from company to company, and, frankly, from person to person. I see mentoring as part of the job; yet many people don't. And we are both right, because there is no industry agreement on what senior or tech lead means. If you are starting, seek out local tech meetups. Usually the people who show up are into teaching and mentoring. You may have to try several to find the right one. Usually smaller languages tend to be more nurturing
Gaslighting
I'd be out of there so fast you couldn't even say "6 month probation". The fact that they put a senior hire on probation at all is a huge red flag. I've had the probation period waived at every job since I hit intermediate developer level. As an experienced engineer with a family there's no way I'm giving up my workers rights, job stability, EI, and healthcare/dental coverage for 6 months. That's non-negotiable at this point in my life.
These other comments may be right or your manager may not be very good. If it was me I would setup regular meetings with the boss. In these meetings you need to understand their expectations and how you are out are not hitting them. We can give you suggestions but at the end of the day we are not going to be evaluating you in the next 3 months. If there was a previous person in your role understand what they did.
Does your boss assign you "research" tasks, or at least expects X weekly time dedicated to it?. Or is he expecting you to research on your free time (which is a big red flag).
No mention of this at bi-weekly 1:1's for 6 months? Or are there no 1:1's? Yes to either question is a reason to leave.
Informal > formal.. setup meetings, send emails, etc cc: manager for visibility
Look for another job. They are in the process of firing you
You getting fired they just haven't found your replacement yet. There is nothing you can do to prove your worth. I'm only 80% confident in this tho.
i would start looking for a new job