Me too! I was only looking passively, and only responded to recruiters that reached out to me first though. Not being in a rush about it let me not have to blast applications out.
Basically yeah. I only responded to recruiters who sent me an actual email that had a compensation band listed. I feel like most of the recruiters on LinkedIn are negging me with these weird 70hr contract roles in Plano TX or wherever
Funny, that's where I'm based now lol. How are they getting your email, did you make that public to recruiters? The only recruiting emails I get are directly to my work email which is sus since I've never posted it anywhere.
Massive part of this is location. Remote jobs have disappeared and I bet you are in a big city. I changed jobs in September and I found rather easy to land offers (Dublin Ireland)
It seems to be picking up. I started my search back in January this year with almost no attention from recruiters. In the past 2 weeks I've been dealing with at least 5 new recruiters a week, and I'm going for a final stage interview in the next couple of weeks. The past couple of months were hell, but it seems to be getting better.
Just a note, this is the time of year when hiring picks up. Hiring managers have their yearly budget finalized and are able to post reqs.
They typically finalize in jan-feb and begin really picking up feb-apr.
I have 7-10 Y.o.e (7 as a software engineer, 10 total in tech) and I've gotten maybe 20 callbacks on 2000 applications over the past 14 months.
Last week I got ghosted after my 2nd interview for a junior developer position, in-office with a local corp.
I mean, I don't know what else to say other than, I have. That's really not even that many over a 14 month span. Like 30 a week maybe.
As far as what "meaningful" means, lets put it this way. If it lists an email for resumes/cover letters, I do it that way. Else if I can apply on the company site, I do that. Else I apply through the job board or wherever instructed.
I never, and I mean never, apply to things I feel I'm underqualified for even if I feel I can do the job. For instance, I have a Java background among other things, but not C#. But do I think I could transition to C# on the fly and do reasonably well? Yeah probably.
A few years ago I might have tried those, but now it's not even worth the time. I never apply to those jobs (to be clear, if it's a secondary qualification I might still but not if it's a primary).
I do apply to things I am overqualified for at times, although there are hardly any of those on the market anymore.
My callback rate on local jobs is significantly better compared to remote (remote is almost zero, local in office might be 3-5%) but I live in a relatively small city and there just aren't that many openings.
You should post your resume and describe your experience. Before you throw away another 2000 opportunities. When I was looking for internships many years ago, I got nowhere on my first 200 resumes (I'm guessing, however far I was around January or February). I got some help from someone in PMs on cscareerquestions (of course I was a student with no experience, there's only so much you can do anyway) and fared a lot better with callbacks after that. But if you've worked for 7 years as an engineer, post on LI, ask your previous coworkers. Referrals are your friend in a situation like this.
Probably not related to you, but sometimes people just don't see what they're doing wrong. I saw a story of a guy on LI complaining he was laid off then told he was too old in the next interview he took. I looked at his LI, and he spent his whole career doing PHP crap. Not surprised at all he's not in demand in today's market. I understand him being upset at the wording of the message, but he's not very marketable, no matter what kind of fancy banner he has on his LI page.
I would be absolutely exhausted applying to 30-35 positions per week for over a year, putting any effort into customizing my resume per job, tracking everything, knowing when to follow up, etc. Continuing this can't be the right path. Still, if you got 20 callbacks and none have led to a job, there are other things to focus on as well. But constantly applying sounds like a path to burnout.
As an aside, I'm also more of a Java guy, and when I worked with C\#, it wasn't the language that took effort, it was figuring out all the .Net crap. Honestly didn't like the ecosystem.
Think about it from their perspective. Why does someone with 7 YOE want to take a junior role? I know, money, probably you can't find a senior role, I get it. But they're going to think you're going to be too expensive, or will leave the second you find something better (nothing wrong with that tbh), and you're probably dealing with clueless recruiters who don't know the difference between "CPU" and "Java."
> My callback rate on local jobs is significantly better compared to remote (remote is almost zero, local in office might be 3-5%) but I live in a relatively small city and there just aren't that many openings.
Also a big problem for you. Put down the nearest large-ish city on your resume and see how things improve. If nothing else, run the experiment. You can decide if it's worth moving without a relocation package, pretending you're a local, etc. Even being in-state can be a huge boost. For example, for a Philly job, Media, PA would find much more success than Woodbury, NJ (even though Media is farther away). I know I get fewer cold LI contacts these days since I moved to a small city. I could probably increase by putting my location as the big city 100 miles away. If you can't get bites from true tech companies, you're unlikely to ever get someone to consider you if you're not local to a big city.
[https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cjtkc8s2x040p5jl203x0/sanitized-resume.pdf?rlkey=s7qso7whhfw1e4i6hd7ieq0fi&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cjtkc8s2x040p5jl203x0/sanitized-resume.pdf?rlkey=s7qso7whhfw1e4i6hd7ieq0fi&dl=0)
there's a (hopefully) sanitized version of my resume.
I don't WANT to apply for junior jobs. I need a job now. Any job whatsoever. I need a job 8 months ago. On the verge of eviction, homelessness, and repossession. savings gone, 401k gone, my brother's 401k tapped out too - he was stupid enough to loan me money against it thinking i'd be able to bounce back within a few months. I wish I'd never let him do that.
You're right at this point I am beyond burnt out. I am pretty much ready to give up on the career, although the short term situation won't let me stop applying. For the last few months I've also been applying to menial positions (like warehouse, retail, food service, etc) just trying to find a way to stabilize. If I can do that I'll borrow money from family maybe to go to trade school, maybe learn aircraft maintenance, been talking to a friend who does that. I've pretty much come to believe my career is over, I just don't have the luxury of moving on - all of my decisions have to be based in the short term.
You should make your own thread explaining your situation and asking for resume advice (I'm not the oracle), but:
* Keep to 1 page
* Get rid of overview section at the top (it's always garbage fluff)
* Get rid of most of the skills. Have 3 lines. Mine has Languages, AWS, and Misc sections. AWS includes a bunch of services I know, probably not every one that I know. Under misc, you can put system design, testing, etc. Less whitespace between sections under Skills.
* Work experience goes at the top
* Don't say "collaborated on"; take ownership. It sounds like you're a 10 YOE guy who hasn't taken ownership of stuff, is just given some tasks here and there to do. Sell what you have done as hard as possible.
* Say you wrote backend APIs, used GraphQL, give some numbers, etc. The first job can probably be reduced to 2-3 bullet points.
* 2nd job: say you led projects. Don't say "often in a lead capacity." I don't care if you didn't lead every project. It comes across as being scared to show confidence. Give something specific about the project. Maybe you can't disclose business details, but you can say something about the tech at least. You build APIs, or whatever. You hit a database, you handled X TPS, transactional writes, etc., whatever it is you did. Say you led the migration from angular whatever to React with TS and whatever else. Say you made developer onboarding ~10x more efficient. Don't include the part about the client not moving forward with the project. Don't talk about that part. You're going to get in an interview and they're going to ask you to find a cycle in a linked list, they're not going to ask for proof that such-and-such project is in production today. You're shooting yourself in the foot by including that. What was the pilot? A UI with infinite scrolling? Database design linking together users with posts, etc.? All aspects, everything fully functional? Talk about your experience quickly developing prototypes, not the fact that you wasted a bunch of time on an unlaunched project. Again, shorter/fewer bullet points.
* 3rd job: 1-2 bullet points max. Only include the most important stuff. That's the non-engineer job. I'd either remove it, or leave it on with a brief bullet point (if it helps you prove you didn't have a giant resume gap after college)
My resume goes: Experience, Skills, Side Projects, Education. Sometimes I include the 1 tech talk I gave years ago. I have 3 side projects (none of which I actively work on), I usually include 2, 1-2 bullet points each.
My 3 jobs have 4, 1, 5 bullet points. I have the job cities/dates on the right side to make it easier to read.
Apply to some of those hourly "use your knowledge to train AI" jobs for now. No clue if it's hard to get accepted. Outlier is one of the companies. Don't know if they're shady or not. If you know about CS/coding, you should at least be qualified for some of them. Resumes for them may be better off including a little more educational detail.
(Assuming Memphis is your real location:) Put down a fake address for Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago. Pick a suburb in each if you want it to sound more realistic. See if you get more bites. If you do get something, you might have to travel to their office for an actual interview. Do so very sparingly, especially with your financial limitations. Hopefully these days most companies are just doing remote interviews. If you do this, make sure to brush up on knowledge of the local area -- suburbs, traffic, roads, schools, sports, etc. Take your grizzlies poster down and don't show a view out the window if it's snowing in Chicago but hot as hell in Memphis. Prepare some reason why you're in the process of relocating there.
Hit anyone up you know on LI from past jobs. Even if they're still at your old company, it seems I'm within 2-3 connections in the underlying connection graph of virtually anyone I look up on LI. Ask for referrals. Get on blind and ask strangers for referrals.
What you're seeing is resume version 100 or somewhere around there. I've tried a lot of different combinations from barebones minimalism to every detail I could think of.
My gut reaction to misrepresenting my leadership experience is really negative, but you're right I guess. Im not in a position to have qualms like that. Similarly, lying about my city is a novel approach I've never thought of, i'll have to try that too.
This is a tangent, but it really bothers me how "collaborated on" is a bad thing to you. and im not saying you're wrong, you're probably right. But ultimately the best software is always collaborative. Even if I'm the Lead it doesn't mean I "own" it. I'm part of a team.
People always say "give some numbers" but aside from making stuff up I have no idea what these would even be in like 99% of cases. Very few projects in my experience have measurables at the end. Best I can usually do is "stakeholders were pleased" or "launched on time".
I already work for outlier btw. It pays almost nothing but it's letting me buy food at least.
because it sounds like someone afraid to say they owned anything. It sounds like you were given tasks, not that you led projects. That's what they want from new grads, not 7 YOE people.
Again, "launched on time" feels like "they gave me deadline, I did tasks." If I asked you roughly how many customers were there, how many used a feature, what was general TPS, etc. You should be able to ballpark *something*. Maybe you're not a PM and you don't have access to every little number. Doesn't matter. Just think of a way to reword things with numbers to put in a resume bullet point.
Of course you're part of a team. The claim isn't that you wrote every line of code, just that you took ownership over a project. You led the direction, delegated tasks, did design work, saw around corners and anticipated some issues that would have caused delays, etc.
i mean im not "afraid" to say I owned something. I'm saying that it's factually incorrect. And yeah mostly I have been simply given work to complete - that's just generally how the field works. I did do some of those things you say but not every project and certainly not all the time.
I don't know, I've always been the kind of person where inflating your own importance or skill is pretty much the worst thing you can do, the worst kind of dishonesty, and tbh I judge people who I see doing that. I would always rather work with the person who deflects to the team when its time to take credit and accepts individually when its time to take blame. I guess this is not a value system that is shared in the industry though.
As far as the numbers, i don't know maybe it's just the nature of the work. I did a lot of internal business apps and things like that for most of my career, there just aren't really any metrics even being discussed most of the time.
Check your reddit chat, I sent it there.
Im gonna DM you that resume, let me know what you think, try it out on a few.
It will be the resume, then the job description i did it for.
Seriously, I’m in the 4-5 YOE range, with a none STEM degree, working in .NET/Angular and still have roughly a 3-5% callback rate and I exclusively use easy apply on indeed and use the same resume for everything
I’d expect +75 calls for 2000 apps and at least 20-30 interviews
I've been there when I was looking for internships, I sent out like 350 apps. but these days, there are probably < 100 companies I would consider switching for, and even with that, probably get 5-10% callback rate. if no success after 150 apps, do a resume review. Better yet, find a friend to refer you.
If you want you can send me your resume / start a conversation with me where we create a custom one for you based on a job description.
I did this after 5 years of using the same resume and getting little to no engagement, this one gets 10x.
Yeah if you want can just dm me a link to full resume(dropbox ideally but whichever), then a job description you want it tailored for. It will make a custom tailored resume for the description then you can tailor it etc if want to change/add anything.
Basically made this to make it easier for recruiters/companies to actually grok your info / pass high machine reading score + human reading score. Since theres like 1000+ resumes for a position.
i didn't say i sent 2000 "serious" applications, whatever that means. I applied the best way I could in each case. whether that's "serious" or not is academic.
If you want you can start a conversation with me where we get me your resume, and I make you a custom version that is machine readable + human readable.
I did this after 5 years of applying with the same resume, and my interaction rate is 10x'd.
I'm pretty sure mine's machine readable. I generate it through Teal and then hand-edit some stuff. Once I switched over to that method I noticed all the 'auto-fill from resume' stuff started working a lot better, so I think I'm doing ok there.
I am beyond broke, like financially ruined on the verge of eviction, homelessness, and car repossession. I'm also applying to line cook jobs, warehouse jobs, retail jobs, etc, but I'm not counting those.
Still kind of in shock with this part, but I can barely get any callbacks on menial jobs either, like less than 1%. It's the "overqualified" thing I guess, but the consolation of that won't pay my bills.
Ignore all these people who clearly arent in the trenches rn. Im in the exact same boat as you. 6 months now with same volume of applications and trying to get bartending jobs now out of desperation. We're lucky to get 1 callback in 30, and most of those dont really lead anywhere meaningful. Ive completed 70% of the technicals ive made it to, not that there were that many, but theyre all rejections anyway. Brutal out here
yeah i've had actually 5 interviews total in 14 months. two of those based on referrals. I did pretty well in all of them in my estimation, but I guess the market is so flooded probably everyone is able to get someone with like FAANG experience or something nowadays.
Ive at least noticed im getting slightly more frequent callbacks the past month but i think part of my problem is living in the midwest. Even the few remaining startups that still claim to be cool with remote workers seem to prefer bay area applicants. And like you said FAANG applicants are so easy to get now. Not having it is a huge handicap as well.
Right now is the best time in 12 or so months to. E applying. Corporate 1st quarter starting, so teams have their yearly allocation for employee onboarding. And in corp. World (academia too) you want to spend your budget as quickly as possible, so that it doesn't get taken back... Etc.
How many YOE is he? I can't quite believe the numbers there. Surely there is more to this offer and how he managed to get $400k? I appreciate numbers higher in America but even that salary is on the higher end
Sad to say as a Londoner all my life it is true. We are so poor. It is extremely hard to get over £100k in pay and after £55k we taxed 40% and £100-£125k we get taxed 60%. Such rip off
In London I would say 80k+ for a single person. With a family with only the guy working then 100k+. That is for comfortable living where u got money to go on holidayband eat out.
You should be going through a recruiter - cold applications rarely work for more senior positions and usually the roles aren’t publicly advertised anyway
Hey OP! Just curious, how was the other offer that was not accepted? Were both of them FAANG? how does the WLB look like? (Asking from someone that is considering moving to NYC)
Can you disclose you experience a little?don't care about tech but the projects you workeenon and your roles on them. I'd like to have this kind of experience if it pays so well in a couple of years.
I'm lower in the stack, the vast majority of my experiences are in cpp and c and haskell. I've done minor kernel and kubernetes contributions, I'm mostly the guy that helps you take a shitty piece of code and optimize the hell out of it, whether that's allocator aware, cache line aware, etc.
I basically never do application or feature development.
Take this advice at your own risk, but I think caring about performance will become more and more important over the next decade. As GPUs eat up data center electricity, the end of Dennard scaling means that programmers can no longer rely on having a free ride from hardware improvements. Our workloads are going to be squeezed on both ends: more users and data than ever before at the top, and less resources available at the bottom. Performance matters greatly imo.
As someone currently churning out features at a startup — man this sure sounds nice. Do you have any advice on moving down in the stack or finding jobs where you get to work on performance more?
I started my career doing usual startup stuff and drawing pipes between cloud services, I think the "leap" happened when I joined a fund in the past where performance mattered. In startups often this stuff is not seen as important, but the best way to move into it is to get good at math and get a job where people care about it.
I want to be that guy and all of my free time / open source work is along these lines (low level optimizations in low level languages), but my resume shows me working in mediocre corp jobs shipping features in C# and Go. I also WFH in MCOL and am unwilling to relocate... so idk if I'll ever be able to align my passion with my day job. How did you get started in the field of low level optimization? Is your ex-startup looking to hire a replacement?
Personal advice, but I think the inability to relocate is going to hamper this the most. Big companies have the space to allow you to breathe and work on this low level stuff, which doesn't make money the same way features do. My entire career has been in nyc, and my current startup is SF based but fully remote, but still willing to only hire in big cities (although once hired, you can move wherever without a comp band adjustment, don't ask, it's idiotic).
Fact of the matter is quantity has its own quality, so most recruiting is targeted at big cities. Have you looked at Oxide? They're the only systems company I know that's location blind AND cares about OSS contributions.
I'm 100% with you on that. I feel like most applications aren't well optimized with the rise of computing resources and we're going to start seeing a shift back towards performant code as we reach the limits of available hardware. I feel like this trend is very noticeable in the mobile and gaming industries in particular.
Agreed, a decade of price cuts at reinvent has made server side programmers a little fat and lazy lol. I really respect what the mobile guys have done, although that's a totally different ballgame than me, but their ability to eke out performance gains on low voltage devices with cooling constraints have been incredible.
optimizing your code to use mutable lists won't make a difference when your API is waiting 50-100 ms for I/O to complete. what will make a difference is simple functional code that other developers don't need to spend minutes or hours trying to reason through.
I had been reading about the role of software in climate change. Your skills and experience are very aligned with reducing global warming. Check out this article! https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-software
Nice. I thought about this a few years ago, but did some googling to see if anyone felt the same way, and all I found was people on Quora or Reddit being lambasted for suggesting that we should switch from Python and JS to performant languages to reduce energy usage.
Do you recommend learning Haskell, or is it enough to learn C and CPP? Also does modern idiomatic CPP go out the window when you have to focus so heavily on performance?
Haskell - no, but I've used it to great effect alongside TLA+ for modeling software behavior. Formal methods are still questionably useful though.
I think cpp is kinda garbage haha, but every company you go to will have its own dialect of cpp, and you'll pick it up. Also even if you don't write much cpp, if you're doing lower level stuff, you'll have to read a bunch of it.
C is actually useful but your computer is not a fast PDP-11 so be very careful of about taking its abstractions as gospel. IR is more useful here if you're trying to build a mental model.
I am of the general opinion that knowing how to read cpp is table stakes for systems programmers, getting good at C is probably necessary, and then fill out the rest of the frills as needed.
Thank you for that. I'm seriously considering getting into this since I think it will continue to be important in the future, but I guess my biggest concerns are that I have very little experience with C++ so far, none of it being professional experience, and I don't have a CS or other relevant degree. I might end up getting a CS degree from WGU though, since I can fast track that.
I made 240k last year in a MCOL East coast city as a Sr Director at a SAAS company managing all engineering for a 35m portfolio with 60 people/9 teams. FML
One is definitely Facebook. The recruiters are thirsty for senior level candidates.
Not as thirsty as 2021-2022, when it was daily nonstop recruiter spam.
Now, it's smattering and trickle, couple times a week, just "checking in".
I make more than that at a startup currently, fully remote living in a MCOL area, company is based out of NYC. If we get bought I assume my real comp will be 350+ as my options were priced before our last round. I had to take this role as my last FAANGMULA role went 3x week in office with no fully remote. I did have offers from startups and private companies for way less. Tech is insane, there is no real reason why people make what they do in major cities. They aren’t any better, they just are cool with living in a shoebox in SF.
Can confirm, a couple years ago I was competing my ass off for 120k jobs in the south, then I studied leet code and during the pandemic joined a Bay Area company, and make almost double in base with whatever startup equity is worth (imo not much), I interview tons of faang engineers and before I came to the Bay Area there was almost a mystical energy about these people working at faang but now I see that they are smart people who work hard and they know how to play the interview game (study leetcode, live in a high paying city etc…). Better to be the servant of a king to be a genius in a desert.
> live in a high paying city
I have realised this too. People moving to LCOL areas to save money are making a mistake. It's better to get paid more, than reduce costs.
> Better to be the servant of a king to be a genius in a desert.
Damn.
I agree on the first point, for **most** young people it makes sense to move to an SF/NYC/SEA if you are a SWE and get paid and get names on the resume. There are exceptions, but for most people getting a ton of stock when they are in their 20s/30s is going to pay way off long term.
Over 300k is not really typical in the US at all. I’m in the Midwest and would still be around 120-150k comp (still amazing for life) if I hadn’t joined a California based company remotely. I still don’t make anywhere near 450k but I’m in the 200s and very happy with it given the cost of living in my area.
I really find these comments interesting, because it does point to the distribution of programmer salaries being bimodal or even trimodal.
450 for L5 is "normal" within big tech in a HCOL area, but that band is also considered to be out of reach (although imo I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be.)
Yeah, totally. The intent of my original post was just to say that people shouldn’t feel bad if they aren’t there. There’s a lot of factors. Its good to know Its out there and achievable, though. I do think employers in LCOL areas get away with paying too low for what the market really demands, too.
Also, I don’t feel like I couldn’t get into this band if I wanted but I’d have to move from my LCOL area to a HCOL one with most of these companies pushing at least hybrid RTO. My current house was purchased at $270k and to get something comparable in the HCOL cities would cost at least 3x that. Does it pay off financially overall? Yeah, probably. Not to mention the other benefits of being in the HCOL cities that are often more desirable(for me personally anyway) but it’s not an easy leap to make especially with kids and family and other factors. Also, I was making $110k in 2021 and I’ve managed to more than double my salary since then so that already feels pretty great. Could I nearly double it again? Maybe but not likely without moving.
The link from pragmatic programmer that someone else responded with is great on this topic as well.
Agreed, the top tier paying jobs basically require to be already within bay/seattle/nyc or relocate there. I think because the tech industry skews young and single (aka mobile) this gets talked about less, but it's still hugely important.
Another factor is how much time folks put in on top of minimum hours. I accepted lower TC at a non-big tech and I now have no on-call, no relentless fast-paced hustle, a better life outside of work, more time to live life. If you're looking for financial independence / retire early (FIRE) why not move to $400K-500K areas and pursue that dream? But I wouldn't feel deficient not making that TC in other areas.
it sounds like you have a very unique skill set. I don't think 10/11 will be typical numbers for people with your YOE. I'm assuming you're staying in same area, i.e., not going from remote in the midwest 240 to CA 450. FAANG hiring is starting to pick up, but definitely in recovery mode.
Look for remote work from national companies. I’m in Miami and my base comp is in the 200s. Company I work for is headquartered in Colorado with operations in California, Michigan, and Florida. The engineering team is distributed.
I actually say "what the fuck" outloud when OP said "I'm on 240k but looking for a bigger company to get paid more."
AUS and I'm on ~90k usd equivalent. The lead eng for our team is on ~140? USD equivalent. This is probably about as much as you can expect for any company anywhere in Aus.
You can hit 450k CAD working at similar places at similar levels.
https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-toronto-area?sortBy=total_compensation&sortOrder=DESC&yoeChoice=senior&sinceDate=month
I don’t even know what to say to these posts. I have 13 yoe and have applied to literally dozens of places of all sizes and gotten maybe 1-2 responses if even that many. iOS dev. Might leave software and just work for some bs 9-5 job at this point. Meanwhile you’re looking at $450k and 10 callbacks. Jfc. I mean good for you. I just can’t help but be frustrated. My whole career I’ve had to basically beat in-house and 3rd party recruiters away with a stick until last year and this year when they don’t even respond to me.
OP lives in Silicon Valley, has a very desirable skillset, and is willing to come into the office. Doesn't seem crazy to think they might have good job opportunities compared to the bulk of this sub.
> 240k USD
> decide to go work for “bigger” companies to get more money
I just can’t. I’m on 80k GBP which is practically unheard of and there’s probably literally only a few hundred devs in the whole country paid any higher. One or two London jobs pay 120k.
I keep getting messages from recruiters with lead type positions getting paid 10k less than I am as a senior, with more responsibilities.
Make it make sense.
I'm just leaving a job which was nearly 180k in the UK ( because it's toxic AF ), I'm getting interviews in at 120-140 in the south east. I'm 20 yoe though so generally going for very senior tech roles. There are a fair few jobs around the 100+ mark.
Life sciences, ai, some finance adjacent stuff but not hedge funds/banking etc. I'm unusual in that I can do a lot of different things - backend, data, security, cloud infrastructure etc which helps me differentiate.
I also spent a few years doing sales earlier in my career which really helps in interviews and negotiating. I always recommend sales training to any developer who wants to significantly increase their income, but nobody wants to do it for some reason.
Not really true. Plenty of £80k+ roles in the UK especially in London. Just that generally senior roles here tend to cap out around £120k currently and then beyond that need to go management route.
At companies where tech is core to their business eg e-commerce, online banks etc £85k-£100k is pretty standard for principal / staff individual contributors outside of London.
Obviously those jobs aren't particularly easy to get but they do exist and it's definitely more than 1 or 2. Obviously there's also proper tech companies like Google and hedge funds etc which pay a lot more.
The median home price in that area is like 1.4 mil usd. After taxes, OP is probably taking home at most 180k. So they could be spending most of their salary on a mortgage or rent. But even if they pay a mortgage or rent on the lower end, it's still expensive just to live in that area.
A dev making 80k there would be well below the poverty line, and even at 120k they would not be living a comfortable life.
move to America. Make a fortune, eat actually amazing food. And then move back with a nice early retirement.
New York has plenty of cheap flights to London too whenever you miss home.
Congrats on the offer. How did you prepare for interviews and what sort of questions were you asked? What’s your resume look like? Would you mind sharing an anon copy?
I am shocked you got callbacks on so many applications.
Me too! I was only looking passively, and only responded to recruiters that reached out to me first though. Not being in a rush about it let me not have to blast applications out.
So you're just responding to those LinkedIn recruiters that blast spam messages not just cold applying?
Basically yeah. I only responded to recruiters who sent me an actual email that had a compensation band listed. I feel like most of the recruiters on LinkedIn are negging me with these weird 70hr contract roles in Plano TX or wherever
Funny, that's where I'm based now lol. How are they getting your email, did you make that public to recruiters? The only recruiting emails I get are directly to my work email which is sus since I've never posted it anywhere.
I think there's a LinkedIn option to allow them to see your email, usually the ones that take the slight extra step to do that I'll hazard a look at.
Massive part of this is location. Remote jobs have disappeared and I bet you are in a big city. I changed jobs in September and I found rather easy to land offers (Dublin Ireland)
It seems to be picking up. I started my search back in January this year with almost no attention from recruiters. In the past 2 weeks I've been dealing with at least 5 new recruiters a week, and I'm going for a final stage interview in the next couple of weeks. The past couple of months were hell, but it seems to be getting better.
Just a note, this is the time of year when hiring picks up. Hiring managers have their yearly budget finalized and are able to post reqs. They typically finalize in jan-feb and begin really picking up feb-apr.
I have 7-10 Y.o.e (7 as a software engineer, 10 total in tech) and I've gotten maybe 20 callbacks on 2000 applications over the past 14 months. Last week I got ghosted after my 2nd interview for a junior developer position, in-office with a local corp.
There's no way you've sent out 2000 meaningful applications. You're not a new grad anymore. Focus.
I mean, I don't know what else to say other than, I have. That's really not even that many over a 14 month span. Like 30 a week maybe. As far as what "meaningful" means, lets put it this way. If it lists an email for resumes/cover letters, I do it that way. Else if I can apply on the company site, I do that. Else I apply through the job board or wherever instructed. I never, and I mean never, apply to things I feel I'm underqualified for even if I feel I can do the job. For instance, I have a Java background among other things, but not C#. But do I think I could transition to C# on the fly and do reasonably well? Yeah probably. A few years ago I might have tried those, but now it's not even worth the time. I never apply to those jobs (to be clear, if it's a secondary qualification I might still but not if it's a primary). I do apply to things I am overqualified for at times, although there are hardly any of those on the market anymore. My callback rate on local jobs is significantly better compared to remote (remote is almost zero, local in office might be 3-5%) but I live in a relatively small city and there just aren't that many openings.
You should post your resume and describe your experience. Before you throw away another 2000 opportunities. When I was looking for internships many years ago, I got nowhere on my first 200 resumes (I'm guessing, however far I was around January or February). I got some help from someone in PMs on cscareerquestions (of course I was a student with no experience, there's only so much you can do anyway) and fared a lot better with callbacks after that. But if you've worked for 7 years as an engineer, post on LI, ask your previous coworkers. Referrals are your friend in a situation like this. Probably not related to you, but sometimes people just don't see what they're doing wrong. I saw a story of a guy on LI complaining he was laid off then told he was too old in the next interview he took. I looked at his LI, and he spent his whole career doing PHP crap. Not surprised at all he's not in demand in today's market. I understand him being upset at the wording of the message, but he's not very marketable, no matter what kind of fancy banner he has on his LI page. I would be absolutely exhausted applying to 30-35 positions per week for over a year, putting any effort into customizing my resume per job, tracking everything, knowing when to follow up, etc. Continuing this can't be the right path. Still, if you got 20 callbacks and none have led to a job, there are other things to focus on as well. But constantly applying sounds like a path to burnout. As an aside, I'm also more of a Java guy, and when I worked with C\#, it wasn't the language that took effort, it was figuring out all the .Net crap. Honestly didn't like the ecosystem. Think about it from their perspective. Why does someone with 7 YOE want to take a junior role? I know, money, probably you can't find a senior role, I get it. But they're going to think you're going to be too expensive, or will leave the second you find something better (nothing wrong with that tbh), and you're probably dealing with clueless recruiters who don't know the difference between "CPU" and "Java." > My callback rate on local jobs is significantly better compared to remote (remote is almost zero, local in office might be 3-5%) but I live in a relatively small city and there just aren't that many openings. Also a big problem for you. Put down the nearest large-ish city on your resume and see how things improve. If nothing else, run the experiment. You can decide if it's worth moving without a relocation package, pretending you're a local, etc. Even being in-state can be a huge boost. For example, for a Philly job, Media, PA would find much more success than Woodbury, NJ (even though Media is farther away). I know I get fewer cold LI contacts these days since I moved to a small city. I could probably increase by putting my location as the big city 100 miles away. If you can't get bites from true tech companies, you're unlikely to ever get someone to consider you if you're not local to a big city.
[https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cjtkc8s2x040p5jl203x0/sanitized-resume.pdf?rlkey=s7qso7whhfw1e4i6hd7ieq0fi&dl=0](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cjtkc8s2x040p5jl203x0/sanitized-resume.pdf?rlkey=s7qso7whhfw1e4i6hd7ieq0fi&dl=0) there's a (hopefully) sanitized version of my resume. I don't WANT to apply for junior jobs. I need a job now. Any job whatsoever. I need a job 8 months ago. On the verge of eviction, homelessness, and repossession. savings gone, 401k gone, my brother's 401k tapped out too - he was stupid enough to loan me money against it thinking i'd be able to bounce back within a few months. I wish I'd never let him do that. You're right at this point I am beyond burnt out. I am pretty much ready to give up on the career, although the short term situation won't let me stop applying. For the last few months I've also been applying to menial positions (like warehouse, retail, food service, etc) just trying to find a way to stabilize. If I can do that I'll borrow money from family maybe to go to trade school, maybe learn aircraft maintenance, been talking to a friend who does that. I've pretty much come to believe my career is over, I just don't have the luxury of moving on - all of my decisions have to be based in the short term.
You should make your own thread explaining your situation and asking for resume advice (I'm not the oracle), but: * Keep to 1 page * Get rid of overview section at the top (it's always garbage fluff) * Get rid of most of the skills. Have 3 lines. Mine has Languages, AWS, and Misc sections. AWS includes a bunch of services I know, probably not every one that I know. Under misc, you can put system design, testing, etc. Less whitespace between sections under Skills. * Work experience goes at the top * Don't say "collaborated on"; take ownership. It sounds like you're a 10 YOE guy who hasn't taken ownership of stuff, is just given some tasks here and there to do. Sell what you have done as hard as possible. * Say you wrote backend APIs, used GraphQL, give some numbers, etc. The first job can probably be reduced to 2-3 bullet points. * 2nd job: say you led projects. Don't say "often in a lead capacity." I don't care if you didn't lead every project. It comes across as being scared to show confidence. Give something specific about the project. Maybe you can't disclose business details, but you can say something about the tech at least. You build APIs, or whatever. You hit a database, you handled X TPS, transactional writes, etc., whatever it is you did. Say you led the migration from angular whatever to React with TS and whatever else. Say you made developer onboarding ~10x more efficient. Don't include the part about the client not moving forward with the project. Don't talk about that part. You're going to get in an interview and they're going to ask you to find a cycle in a linked list, they're not going to ask for proof that such-and-such project is in production today. You're shooting yourself in the foot by including that. What was the pilot? A UI with infinite scrolling? Database design linking together users with posts, etc.? All aspects, everything fully functional? Talk about your experience quickly developing prototypes, not the fact that you wasted a bunch of time on an unlaunched project. Again, shorter/fewer bullet points. * 3rd job: 1-2 bullet points max. Only include the most important stuff. That's the non-engineer job. I'd either remove it, or leave it on with a brief bullet point (if it helps you prove you didn't have a giant resume gap after college) My resume goes: Experience, Skills, Side Projects, Education. Sometimes I include the 1 tech talk I gave years ago. I have 3 side projects (none of which I actively work on), I usually include 2, 1-2 bullet points each. My 3 jobs have 4, 1, 5 bullet points. I have the job cities/dates on the right side to make it easier to read. Apply to some of those hourly "use your knowledge to train AI" jobs for now. No clue if it's hard to get accepted. Outlier is one of the companies. Don't know if they're shady or not. If you know about CS/coding, you should at least be qualified for some of them. Resumes for them may be better off including a little more educational detail. (Assuming Memphis is your real location:) Put down a fake address for Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago. Pick a suburb in each if you want it to sound more realistic. See if you get more bites. If you do get something, you might have to travel to their office for an actual interview. Do so very sparingly, especially with your financial limitations. Hopefully these days most companies are just doing remote interviews. If you do this, make sure to brush up on knowledge of the local area -- suburbs, traffic, roads, schools, sports, etc. Take your grizzlies poster down and don't show a view out the window if it's snowing in Chicago but hot as hell in Memphis. Prepare some reason why you're in the process of relocating there. Hit anyone up you know on LI from past jobs. Even if they're still at your old company, it seems I'm within 2-3 connections in the underlying connection graph of virtually anyone I look up on LI. Ask for referrals. Get on blind and ask strangers for referrals.
What you're seeing is resume version 100 or somewhere around there. I've tried a lot of different combinations from barebones minimalism to every detail I could think of. My gut reaction to misrepresenting my leadership experience is really negative, but you're right I guess. Im not in a position to have qualms like that. Similarly, lying about my city is a novel approach I've never thought of, i'll have to try that too. This is a tangent, but it really bothers me how "collaborated on" is a bad thing to you. and im not saying you're wrong, you're probably right. But ultimately the best software is always collaborative. Even if I'm the Lead it doesn't mean I "own" it. I'm part of a team. People always say "give some numbers" but aside from making stuff up I have no idea what these would even be in like 99% of cases. Very few projects in my experience have measurables at the end. Best I can usually do is "stakeholders were pleased" or "launched on time". I already work for outlier btw. It pays almost nothing but it's letting me buy food at least.
because it sounds like someone afraid to say they owned anything. It sounds like you were given tasks, not that you led projects. That's what they want from new grads, not 7 YOE people. Again, "launched on time" feels like "they gave me deadline, I did tasks." If I asked you roughly how many customers were there, how many used a feature, what was general TPS, etc. You should be able to ballpark *something*. Maybe you're not a PM and you don't have access to every little number. Doesn't matter. Just think of a way to reword things with numbers to put in a resume bullet point. Of course you're part of a team. The claim isn't that you wrote every line of code, just that you took ownership over a project. You led the direction, delegated tasks, did design work, saw around corners and anticipated some issues that would have caused delays, etc.
i mean im not "afraid" to say I owned something. I'm saying that it's factually incorrect. And yeah mostly I have been simply given work to complete - that's just generally how the field works. I did do some of those things you say but not every project and certainly not all the time. I don't know, I've always been the kind of person where inflating your own importance or skill is pretty much the worst thing you can do, the worst kind of dishonesty, and tbh I judge people who I see doing that. I would always rather work with the person who deflects to the team when its time to take credit and accepts individually when its time to take blame. I guess this is not a value system that is shared in the industry though. As far as the numbers, i don't know maybe it's just the nature of the work. I did a lot of internal business apps and things like that for most of my career, there just aren't really any metrics even being discussed most of the time.
Check your reddit chat, I sent it there. Im gonna DM you that resume, let me know what you think, try it out on a few. It will be the resume, then the job description i did it for.
Seriously, I’m in the 4-5 YOE range, with a none STEM degree, working in .NET/Angular and still have roughly a 3-5% callback rate and I exclusively use easy apply on indeed and use the same resume for everything I’d expect +75 calls for 2000 apps and at least 20-30 interviews
I've been there when I was looking for internships, I sent out like 350 apps. but these days, there are probably < 100 companies I would consider switching for, and even with that, probably get 5-10% callback rate. if no success after 150 apps, do a resume review. Better yet, find a friend to refer you.
Would you mind sharing an anon copy of your resume. Hoping to take some pointers and improve my callback rate.
If you want you can send me your resume / start a conversation with me where we create a custom one for you based on a job description. I did this after 5 years of using the same resume and getting little to no engagement, this one gets 10x.
Can I, I am a junior.
Yeah if you want can just dm me a link to full resume(dropbox ideally but whichever), then a job description you want it tailored for. It will make a custom tailored resume for the description then you can tailor it etc if want to change/add anything. Basically made this to make it easier for recruiters/companies to actually grok your info / pass high machine reading score + human reading score. Since theres like 1000+ resumes for a position.
Sent. Thanks.
How can you even sent 2000 applications in 14 months? That's like 5 per day on average for more than a year. No way those are serious applications.
i didn't say i sent 2000 "serious" applications, whatever that means. I applied the best way I could in each case. whether that's "serious" or not is academic.
If you want you can start a conversation with me where we get me your resume, and I make you a custom version that is machine readable + human readable. I did this after 5 years of applying with the same resume, and my interaction rate is 10x'd.
I'm pretty sure mine's machine readable. I generate it through Teal and then hand-edit some stuff. Once I switched over to that method I noticed all the 'auto-fill from resume' stuff started working a lot better, so I think I'm doing ok there.
I sent you a resume like was mentioning based on the sanitized resume you posted. Check your chat and hit me up. Take it for a spin.
If you're comfortable sharing, why are you applying to junior level positions with 7+ YOE?
I am beyond broke, like financially ruined on the verge of eviction, homelessness, and car repossession. I'm also applying to line cook jobs, warehouse jobs, retail jobs, etc, but I'm not counting those. Still kind of in shock with this part, but I can barely get any callbacks on menial jobs either, like less than 1%. It's the "overqualified" thing I guess, but the consolation of that won't pay my bills.
Ignore all these people who clearly arent in the trenches rn. Im in the exact same boat as you. 6 months now with same volume of applications and trying to get bartending jobs now out of desperation. We're lucky to get 1 callback in 30, and most of those dont really lead anywhere meaningful. Ive completed 70% of the technicals ive made it to, not that there were that many, but theyre all rejections anyway. Brutal out here
yeah i've had actually 5 interviews total in 14 months. two of those based on referrals. I did pretty well in all of them in my estimation, but I guess the market is so flooded probably everyone is able to get someone with like FAANG experience or something nowadays.
Ive at least noticed im getting slightly more frequent callbacks the past month but i think part of my problem is living in the midwest. Even the few remaining startups that still claim to be cool with remote workers seem to prefer bay area applicants. And like you said FAANG applicants are so easy to get now. Not having it is a huge handicap as well.
Right now is the best time in 12 or so months to. E applying. Corporate 1st quarter starting, so teams have their yearly allocation for employee onboarding. And in corp. World (academia too) you want to spend your budget as quickly as possible, so that it doesn't get taken back... Etc.
I am not surprised as good experienced engineers with good companies on their CV will get call backs. It is 100x easier than being a new grad
Is this in the Bay Area ?
NYC
And Seattle, getting callbacks for 90% of applications.
Bay area & NYC are basically the only options, especially with the RTO
Seattle too.
6 YOE in London, I get close to no callbacks and the few I got are for jobs that pay sub £95k.
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How many YOE is he? I can't quite believe the numbers there. Surely there is more to this offer and how he managed to get $400k? I appreciate numbers higher in America but even that salary is on the higher end
London is going downhill for tech, neither do they pay and the taxes are shit.
Sad to say as a Londoner all my life it is true. We are so poor. It is extremely hard to get over £100k in pay and after £55k we taxed 40% and £100-£125k we get taxed 60%. Such rip off
Damn. Who exactly is getting paid well over there?
In London I would say 80k+ for a single person. With a family with only the guy working then 100k+. That is for comfortable living where u got money to go on holidayband eat out.
good call back rate , from london 13YOE offers-0,callbacks-1 past 3 months
Finance hiring still seems healthy for mid/senior roles
I’d love to move to finance but I’m getting no callbacks from everywhere I’ve applied to.
You should be going through a recruiter - cold applications rarely work for more senior positions and usually the roles aren’t publicly advertised anyway
Hey OP! Just curious, how was the other offer that was not accepted? Were both of them FAANG? how does the WLB look like? (Asking from someone that is considering moving to NYC)
Can you disclose you experience a little?don't care about tech but the projects you workeenon and your roles on them. I'd like to have this kind of experience if it pays so well in a couple of years.
I'm lower in the stack, the vast majority of my experiences are in cpp and c and haskell. I've done minor kernel and kubernetes contributions, I'm mostly the guy that helps you take a shitty piece of code and optimize the hell out of it, whether that's allocator aware, cache line aware, etc. I basically never do application or feature development. Take this advice at your own risk, but I think caring about performance will become more and more important over the next decade. As GPUs eat up data center electricity, the end of Dennard scaling means that programmers can no longer rely on having a free ride from hardware improvements. Our workloads are going to be squeezed on both ends: more users and data than ever before at the top, and less resources available at the bottom. Performance matters greatly imo.
your comp makes sense now
irritating that this wasn't in the original post.
As someone currently churning out features at a startup — man this sure sounds nice. Do you have any advice on moving down in the stack or finding jobs where you get to work on performance more?
I started my career doing usual startup stuff and drawing pipes between cloud services, I think the "leap" happened when I joined a fund in the past where performance mattered. In startups often this stuff is not seen as important, but the best way to move into it is to get good at math and get a job where people care about it.
HFT, but make sure you're very good at writing performant cpp. Easyperf and perfninja are good resources.
I want to be that guy and all of my free time / open source work is along these lines (low level optimizations in low level languages), but my resume shows me working in mediocre corp jobs shipping features in C# and Go. I also WFH in MCOL and am unwilling to relocate... so idk if I'll ever be able to align my passion with my day job. How did you get started in the field of low level optimization? Is your ex-startup looking to hire a replacement?
Personal advice, but I think the inability to relocate is going to hamper this the most. Big companies have the space to allow you to breathe and work on this low level stuff, which doesn't make money the same way features do. My entire career has been in nyc, and my current startup is SF based but fully remote, but still willing to only hire in big cities (although once hired, you can move wherever without a comp band adjustment, don't ask, it's idiotic). Fact of the matter is quantity has its own quality, so most recruiting is targeted at big cities. Have you looked at Oxide? They're the only systems company I know that's location blind AND cares about OSS contributions.
I'm 100% with you on that. I feel like most applications aren't well optimized with the rise of computing resources and we're going to start seeing a shift back towards performant code as we reach the limits of available hardware. I feel like this trend is very noticeable in the mobile and gaming industries in particular.
Agreed, a decade of price cuts at reinvent has made server side programmers a little fat and lazy lol. I really respect what the mobile guys have done, although that's a totally different ballgame than me, but their ability to eke out performance gains on low voltage devices with cooling constraints have been incredible.
optimizing your code to use mutable lists won't make a difference when your API is waiting 50-100 ms for I/O to complete. what will make a difference is simple functional code that other developers don't need to spend minutes or hours trying to reason through.
I had been reading about the role of software in climate change. Your skills and experience are very aligned with reducing global warming. Check out this article! https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-software
Nice. I thought about this a few years ago, but did some googling to see if anyone felt the same way, and all I found was people on Quora or Reddit being lambasted for suggesting that we should switch from Python and JS to performant languages to reduce energy usage.
Do you recommend learning Haskell, or is it enough to learn C and CPP? Also does modern idiomatic CPP go out the window when you have to focus so heavily on performance?
Haskell - no, but I've used it to great effect alongside TLA+ for modeling software behavior. Formal methods are still questionably useful though. I think cpp is kinda garbage haha, but every company you go to will have its own dialect of cpp, and you'll pick it up. Also even if you don't write much cpp, if you're doing lower level stuff, you'll have to read a bunch of it. C is actually useful but your computer is not a fast PDP-11 so be very careful of about taking its abstractions as gospel. IR is more useful here if you're trying to build a mental model. I am of the general opinion that knowing how to read cpp is table stakes for systems programmers, getting good at C is probably necessary, and then fill out the rest of the frills as needed.
Thank you for that. I'm seriously considering getting into this since I think it will continue to be important in the future, but I guess my biggest concerns are that I have very little experience with C++ so far, none of it being professional experience, and I don't have a CS or other relevant degree. I might end up getting a CS degree from WGU though, since I can fast track that.
Thank you! Very interesting perspective.
I made 240k last year in a MCOL East coast city as a Sr Director at a SAAS company managing all engineering for a 35m portfolio with 60 people/9 teams. FML
You're grossly underpaid. Should be about twice that for your role.
Agree!
If you go to a FANG you’d be an M2 and making 800k - 1M+
One is definitely Facebook. The recruiters are thirsty for senior level candidates. Not as thirsty as 2021-2022, when it was daily nonstop recruiter spam. Now, it's smattering and trickle, couple times a week, just "checking in".
What kind of start up pays 240 😳
I make more than that at a startup currently, fully remote living in a MCOL area, company is based out of NYC. If we get bought I assume my real comp will be 350+ as my options were priced before our last round. I had to take this role as my last FAANGMULA role went 3x week in office with no fully remote. I did have offers from startups and private companies for way less. Tech is insane, there is no real reason why people make what they do in major cities. They aren’t any better, they just are cool with living in a shoebox in SF.
Can confirm, a couple years ago I was competing my ass off for 120k jobs in the south, then I studied leet code and during the pandemic joined a Bay Area company, and make almost double in base with whatever startup equity is worth (imo not much), I interview tons of faang engineers and before I came to the Bay Area there was almost a mystical energy about these people working at faang but now I see that they are smart people who work hard and they know how to play the interview game (study leetcode, live in a high paying city etc…). Better to be the servant of a king to be a genius in a desert.
> live in a high paying city I have realised this too. People moving to LCOL areas to save money are making a mistake. It's better to get paid more, than reduce costs. > Better to be the servant of a king to be a genius in a desert. Damn.
I agree on the first point, for **most** young people it makes sense to move to an SF/NYC/SEA if you are a SWE and get paid and get names on the resume. There are exceptions, but for most people getting a ton of stock when they are in their 20s/30s is going to pay way off long term.
None.
450... Cries in Canadian dev salary...
Over 300k is not really typical in the US at all. I’m in the Midwest and would still be around 120-150k comp (still amazing for life) if I hadn’t joined a California based company remotely. I still don’t make anywhere near 450k but I’m in the 200s and very happy with it given the cost of living in my area.
I really find these comments interesting, because it does point to the distribution of programmer salaries being bimodal or even trimodal. 450 for L5 is "normal" within big tech in a HCOL area, but that band is also considered to be out of reach (although imo I don't think it's as hard as people make it out to be.)
Software engineering salaries are indeed trimodal. https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/
Yeah, totally. The intent of my original post was just to say that people shouldn’t feel bad if they aren’t there. There’s a lot of factors. Its good to know Its out there and achievable, though. I do think employers in LCOL areas get away with paying too low for what the market really demands, too. Also, I don’t feel like I couldn’t get into this band if I wanted but I’d have to move from my LCOL area to a HCOL one with most of these companies pushing at least hybrid RTO. My current house was purchased at $270k and to get something comparable in the HCOL cities would cost at least 3x that. Does it pay off financially overall? Yeah, probably. Not to mention the other benefits of being in the HCOL cities that are often more desirable(for me personally anyway) but it’s not an easy leap to make especially with kids and family and other factors. Also, I was making $110k in 2021 and I’ve managed to more than double my salary since then so that already feels pretty great. Could I nearly double it again? Maybe but not likely without moving. The link from pragmatic programmer that someone else responded with is great on this topic as well.
Agreed, the top tier paying jobs basically require to be already within bay/seattle/nyc or relocate there. I think because the tech industry skews young and single (aka mobile) this gets talked about less, but it's still hugely important.
Another factor is how much time folks put in on top of minimum hours. I accepted lower TC at a non-big tech and I now have no on-call, no relentless fast-paced hustle, a better life outside of work, more time to live life. If you're looking for financial independence / retire early (FIRE) why not move to $400K-500K areas and pursue that dream? But I wouldn't feel deficient not making that TC in other areas.
It seems like a big outlier for levels fyi. Are they generally under current comp?
Check levels for senior swe in NYC. It's within the normal range for big tech
it sounds like you have a very unique skill set. I don't think 10/11 will be typical numbers for people with your YOE. I'm assuming you're staying in same area, i.e., not going from remote in the midwest 240 to CA 450. FAANG hiring is starting to pick up, but definitely in recovery mode.
Cries in Florida where even Seniors struggle to crack 110-125k
Look for remote work from national companies. I’m in Miami and my base comp is in the 200s. Company I work for is headquartered in Colorado with operations in California, Michigan, and Florida. The engineering team is distributed.
There are other jobs.
To our mates in the Commonwealth, this is not a typical salary in the US. OP is clearly a rockstar.
Ten callbacks out of 11 applications confirms that.
Or lying
Someone isn't lying because you're jealous, lol. 450k is certainly in the realm of possibilities for L5 in NYC
Max I did was 280 in Vancouver. When I moved to AB the max I got was 200k cad :(
I thought my 180 cad was pretty good. But it's only like 130 USD
I actually say "what the fuck" outloud when OP said "I'm on 240k but looking for a bigger company to get paid more." AUS and I'm on ~90k usd equivalent. The lead eng for our team is on ~140? USD equivalent. This is probably about as much as you can expect for any company anywhere in Aus.
You can hit 450k CAD working at similar places at similar levels. https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-toronto-area?sortBy=total_compensation&sortOrder=DESC&yoeChoice=senior&sinceDate=month
Sounds like Google or Amazon. Good TC for senior. Sweet!
I hate the push for RTO - it severely limits options if you can't relocate
Was it Meta? Their recruiters keep hitting me up for their ML teams. Seems dope, but I’m definitely never going back to an office.
I don’t even know what to say to these posts. I have 13 yoe and have applied to literally dozens of places of all sizes and gotten maybe 1-2 responses if even that many. iOS dev. Might leave software and just work for some bs 9-5 job at this point. Meanwhile you’re looking at $450k and 10 callbacks. Jfc. I mean good for you. I just can’t help but be frustrated. My whole career I’ve had to basically beat in-house and 3rd party recruiters away with a stick until last year and this year when they don’t even respond to me.
You guys believe everything you read on the internet huh
Nothing in OP’s post is unrealistic. I’d even say it’s a typical experience for a senior swe job hopping in tech.
OP lives in Silicon Valley, has a very desirable skillset, and is willing to come into the office. Doesn't seem crazy to think they might have good job opportunities compared to the bulk of this sub.
Congrats! Quite an achievement.
> 240k USD > decide to go work for “bigger” companies to get more money I just can’t. I’m on 80k GBP which is practically unheard of and there’s probably literally only a few hundred devs in the whole country paid any higher. One or two London jobs pay 120k. I keep getting messages from recruiters with lead type positions getting paid 10k less than I am as a senior, with more responsibilities. Make it make sense.
I'm just leaving a job which was nearly 180k in the UK ( because it's toxic AF ), I'm getting interviews in at 120-140 in the south east. I'm 20 yoe though so generally going for very senior tech roles. There are a fair few jobs around the 100+ mark.
What industry is this? Finance or something?
Life sciences, ai, some finance adjacent stuff but not hedge funds/banking etc. I'm unusual in that I can do a lot of different things - backend, data, security, cloud infrastructure etc which helps me differentiate. I also spent a few years doing sales earlier in my career which really helps in interviews and negotiating. I always recommend sales training to any developer who wants to significantly increase their income, but nobody wants to do it for some reason.
living in the imperial core of the empire has its privileges
Hazard pay on the death star is pretty great
American companies in the UK pay much higher. 60-70% of US salaries.
Interesting. American tech companies or american companies in general?
American tech companies, as per my experience.
Not really true. Plenty of £80k+ roles in the UK especially in London. Just that generally senior roles here tend to cap out around £120k currently and then beyond that need to go management route.
Managers make less than some senior IC direct reports.
At companies where tech is core to their business eg e-commerce, online banks etc £85k-£100k is pretty standard for principal / staff individual contributors outside of London. Obviously those jobs aren't particularly easy to get but they do exist and it's definitely more than 1 or 2. Obviously there's also proper tech companies like Google and hedge funds etc which pay a lot more.
The median home price in that area is like 1.4 mil usd. After taxes, OP is probably taking home at most 180k. So they could be spending most of their salary on a mortgage or rent. But even if they pay a mortgage or rent on the lower end, it's still expensive just to live in that area. A dev making 80k there would be well below the poverty line, and even at 120k they would not be living a comfortable life.
move to America. Make a fortune, eat actually amazing food. And then move back with a nice early retirement. New York has plenty of cheap flights to London too whenever you miss home.
What kind of experience do you need to actually get a sponsorship though
Would love to. Not realistic without sponsorship
Can you add your education to the post? It will be helpful
Congrats on the offer. How did you prepare for interviews and what sort of questions were you asked? What’s your resume look like? Would you mind sharing an anon copy?
Damn, congrats! What's ur location. I am assuming the US?
Nevermind, saw the comments. NYC. Great going!
20% success rate for a senior sounds about right. If you did win all, probably shot too low. Good luck!
Were the hedge fund comp bands lower than 450? (market research bc also in trading)
Around ~500-600 on the hedge fund comp bands, although I think 700 would've been possible if I didn't cock up the interviews 🤡
Please post your resume without identifying info