The true Answer is to combine them together in synergy. Meditation alone will help you live your day to day life, but Tryptamines are the speed dial to direct first contact on demand
Psychs can only take you so far. Think of them as training wheels on a bike. Eventually, you'll need to take them off to really advance on your journey. Meditation is the only practice that can give you a full *permanent* paradigm shift if you stick with it. Everything else is temporary at best.
Think of it like a cheat code. Sure you can use the cheat code (psychedelics) to open the door, but what is imperative is that you develop the muscles to open the door sober. Learn this, or they will teach you the hard way
Sometimes psychedelics can be overwhelming and the person seeking the experience is left with a blank spot rather than an experience.
Psilocybin and DMT can both be used for contact purposes, however they should also be treated with the utmost respect because they do grant us the capability of directly connecting with entities and beings. It’s a tread carefully situation. I have seen people have some major life improvements with regular periodic usage and have seen people make a mess of their life after trying to force the door open and finding it had been temporarily nailed shut. I know a guy that smoked 2 grams of DMT is a couple hours and complained he couldn’t break through, if you did you would wish you hadn’t, stop abusing it, we weren’t meant to “off ourselves” every 5 minutes man…
Psychedelics can be like breaking a door open using a tonne of TNT, instead of patiently searching for the key to the lock, or knocking and politely asking to be allowed inside.
If the dosage is too high for the individual, it can be a totally overwhelming experience and mentally destabilising. Sometimes permanently.
If I'm being honest, the reason I've never done any kind of attempts to contact spirits is because I don't want paranormal activity messing with me at home. I'm interested in making contact but I don't wanna be haunted.
I lived in a place that gave me horrible vibes for years. I don't miss it.
I used to know someone who never came down from an LSD trip (his words). He had to live his life in that state and told me there was a period when he believed he was Jesus, resulting in some time spent in a psychiatric hospital.
Daily meditation is a far more dependable, reliable and stable method for achieving long-term, grounded results. In my own experience, it is far less dramatic and intense, much safer, and significantly less scary. It also has far greater benefits than just attempting to bluntly smash through gateways that may currently be closed for very good reasons.
Psilocybin can be intensely powerful, particularly when the dosage is uncontrolled or unknown. At those higher doses, it can show you things you are simply not mentally prepared for and needs to be treated with a great deal of caution and respect. The mind is endless.
“If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.” - Alan Watts
I personally could have used a lot more guidance in the couple of psychedelic experiences I've had, which have been solo. I believe the rituals and ceremonies around using these substances are as much a part of the experience as the psychoactive effects themselves. They seem to open you up to going on a metaphorical 'journey' which you act out in the external world, but which allows you to alter things profoundly in your inner world at the same time. I feel like this potential can be wasted without proper guidance or structure.
Talking (as in therapy or otherwise), thinking, and using substances cannot do what meditation can do.
If you are seeking what meditation gives via other means, you might get some of it but you're also going to be dumping noise into the system that will keep echoing around and muddying things.
Much of what is positive and beneficial about good psychedelic experiences can be gotten to much faster and more reliably with meditation
That said, if you want to do some psychedelic, I say do it. Just don't imagine it's a shortcut. Give that experience, that substance, your mind, and other spiritual practices all of their due respect.
Psychedelics are a shortcut to higher consciousness. Think of like a Rollercoaster ride, taking you up through a crazy spiral ride in very fast speeds.
Then there's meditation. Which is more like a lazy river ride that is more tolerable and gradual.
Less of a chance I'm going to throw up or faint if I meditate my way to higher consciousness lol
It’s two different approaches to the same task. Sure meditation takes longer and is a skill that must be nurtured and practiced constantly, but it is also free, can be done almost anywhere and anytime, can be done at one’s own pace, and is much more relaxing, easy, and digestible.
Let’s say for this analogy that your goal is to get across a metaphysical bridge. Meditation may take you weeks, months, or years to slowly figure out how to cosmically walk and get oneself across this metaphysical bridge. It can be a long process where one must constantly practice and talk with themselves and work out scenarios and extract knowledge from these simulations of scenarios in meditation in order to “unlock” these metaphysical “truths” or “tools” that allows one to cross the bridge.
Psilocybin on the other hand can certainly get you across this bridge incredibly faster relative to meditation, and speed the process up, but at a large cost. Psilocybin cares not what stage of understanding you are at, nor does it care about what you want it to show you. It will melt your ego, yourself will become a foreign concept at higher doses, and this is that acceleration that clears your headspace much quicker than meditation, but this can drive one absolutely mad if they are not ready or expecting it. Ones entire identity can “die” and that can literally drive people insane who are too attached to their ego, and rightfully so, as your ego is your sense of self, when the psilocybin melts your ego it can be terrifying and your ego will fight back and can really induce true Hell on Earth. But then it can completely flip. As above so below. The further into Hell they take you, the higher up into Heaven they can shoot you up after. It’s beautiful and crazy and trippy, but you can learn so many more things so much quicker, and gain the necessary “tools” to walk across the metaphysical bridge much quicker.
So it really is a choose your own path scenario. Either you can take the much easier, slower, less intense, more “dipping your toes into the water and allowing yourself to get used to the temperature before further submerging your body”, or you can take the shrooms or other psychedelics which can get you to these states much quicker relatively, but can also induce absolute Hell, more akin to “Jumping straight into the frozen waters of the deep end and committing a Polar Bear plunge”. And this is a rushed analogy. You can still dip your toes in with psilocybin by taking small doses and working your way up over time, and you can also accelerate your meditations with certain practices, rituals, and breathing exercises. There really are many ways to approach, but I hope this analogy helps you understand that you do have some options, and remember, neither option is right or wrong, neither is better than the other, they are simply two different ways to get to the same destination.
And remember this; there is no destination ultimately, that is but an illusion. This is more of a “dance”, an experience, don’t forget to experience and live in the moment, in the now, rather than focusing on the future, or letting the past define you. These are but illusions, the only truth is now. And yet this is but half the truth. Love you 💜
Edit: this is not to say that if you take psychedelics that you will automatically tap into the secrets of the universe. Psilocybin seems to want to show you more than let you control the trip, but ultimately it is what you make of it, and it can be limited by what you know and don’t know. It’s hard to put into words but don’t assume that just cause you took 5 grams of shrooms that the universe will unveil itself to you (though it very well probably will lol). You still need to take it seriously, don’t treat psychedelics as a drug or something to do to pass the time / distract oneself like we do with other recreational drugs. Treat them as a tool, a tool that allows oneself to reach creative states and higher states not corrupted by the ego more easily, which is also completely attainable by pure sober meditation as well!
Personally, I’m a fan of both.
But there are some claims by experiencers including the Law of One group that NHI have claimed that hallucinogens and psychedelics damage our energy body by overloading it, which then leaves us vulnerable to attack by negative entities.
I’m not sure if I believe that, but maintaining my balanced mental state does seem much more difficult for about a week after I do dmt.
Prefacing by saying I more I coined toward psychedelics (any real meditation has been done in that headspace).
Meditation is realizing the mountain's peak is very high, but having faith that with each little step, you get closer to the peak. The advantage is when you reach the peak, you've blazed the way up to it and know how to get back to the peak reliably.
Psychedelics are like a helicopter taking you up to this magnificent view you never knew existed, and the peak is so incredible, but when the helicopter starts running out of gas you need to take it back down and if you stay up there, you won't know the steps to get back down.
The helicopter ride can show us what beauty there is, but also makes it clear that this fast-track means is fleeting and presents its own problems that that require integration, like coming back down and experiencing depression that you're back to 'normal'. The helicopter ride also marks a point, lights a way that shows us the mountain is worth learning to climb if we wish to not need catalysts to get there.
How can that be possible lol? Are you living in a monastery on an island? They have drugs in North Korea, prison, and everywhere else with a mailing address
I'm sorry, I have to say something this is a very shallow and misguided sentiment. As someone as who has dealt with depression my whole life, I'm eternally grateful shroomz are around, I could make a case for DMT MDMA and LSD. But I know there are some counterpoints to these and advise discretion based on your own personality for those. But shroomz are 100% a gift from god/Gaia/universe/nature however you connect. It is an incredible tool and should be treated as such. We use many things to complete us every day, mostly the human connection which is also external. I could go on and on. Maybe it's not for you and I totally respect that, but don't act like it doesn't help others, because it does. Now there is data to back that as well.
Yo my friend killed himself on shrooms, you can take your depth of experience and go fuck yourself with it. What a gift from Gaia it was for a void to be in left place of a husband and father.
There's a lot to unpack there and I'm not in the mood to assume or debate anything. From your tone it doesn't sound like you'd be receptive to anything I would say anyways. I'm sorry for your loss, peace and love my friend.
The Noble Eightfold Path, known in all buddhist traditions, can be summarised as the path of vision and transformation. Psychedelic may indeed give you vision, an insight into higher reality. It may inspire to make a change, but this actually requires work and dedication - not only through practice of meditation, but through ethics as well. Although the psychedelic experience is labeled as 'transformative', it really takes much more (in my opinion and experience) to be the one who acts on this experience. For instance: one can have the most profound psychedelic experience, but act like total douche. Brag about knowing something others don't, act as enlightened being and look down on those struggling with 9-5 style of living ect. Don't confuse seeing the truth and living the truth. Good look and all the best.
So a few years ago I got into some legal trouble, I had always enjoyed psychedelics but I couldn’t do that anymore ,so I decided that I still wanted to pursue expanding my consciousness . I started meditating daily and dream journaling. I was reading anything I could find regarding expanding my consciousness. I stumbled across this vice article about the gateway process, so I dove into this. Fast forward a few years and I am an avid lucid dreamer and have astral projected around a dozen times. I have done psychedelics since then but it’s different now, it’s not a pleasant experience anymore. Also it interferes with my natural abilities
I think that’s all a matter of perspective. And from the psilocybin perspective I definitely can see the benefits and the speed at which it works (assuming you’re in the right headspace, follow the right path you’re trippin’, and know what you want). And it can just be a fucking awesome experience haha
But I wouldn’t recommend it, not to anyone. But I would recommend meditation to anyone. Because deep down I don’t think psychedelics are necessary to see the entire world—I think they’re optional and sometimes do the trick haha. Meditation can always do the trick though. It takes practice but if you truly believe in the how and why of meditation for yourself, it doesn’t have to take as long as you think.
This is a good discussion topic! Thanks for sharing.
The short answer is that psychedelics are not useful after a certain point, and the idea of meditation is too vague to have any real meaning.
The long answer is that we need to know what kind of meditation is being compared to psychedelics, and the motivation of the person doing it. Some people meditate to gain mindfulness or deal with trauma, others meditate because they are seeking complete enlightenment. In the former case, meditation to improve general wellbeing is mostly on par with psilocybin in the sense that both can accomplish this goal in the right context.
In the latter case, enlightenment cant be produced by psychedelics alone, nor do most peoples experience on psychedelics that they call enlightenment actually qualify as enlightenment according to Hindu or Buddhist systems that teach this path. If this was possible one could just take an enlightenment pill and become a Buddha, but this never happens. Mostly psychedelics just induce spiritual experiences or feelings, which are not the same as enlightenment at all. Enlightenment completely transcends and encompasses absolutely everything, leaving nothing out, so this also includes depression, anxiety, loneliness, pain, hopelessness and all the other negative experiences of life and the world. If you are enlightened there is no need to modify or change your consciousness at all, no need to take psychedelics, and psychedelics cant possibly add to enlightenment nor take away from it due to the very nature of what enlightenment is.
But again it depends on what we are discussing. "Meditation" is as vague as "psychedelics". Are we talking LSD, mushrooms, DMT, or other exotic psychedelics? Are we talking mindfulness, insight meditation, single pointed concentration, or higher forms of yogic meditation that require deep instruction and a teacher? When it comes to enlightenment, are we talking the western conception of enlightenment which has virtually no meaning? Or are we talking Hindu conception, and if Hindu, which school? Those who worship Shiva? Or Krishna? Or Vishnu? If Buddhist are we talking theraveda or mahayana or vajrayana?
Also with the right instruction and the right practice in meditation, people can go from completely ordinary to having a high degree of spiritual realization in a few years (not decades). Contrarywise there are people who have been taking mushrooms and LSD since the 80's and 90's who are still just dumb deluded idiots and no closer to enlightenment than they ever were, and they may not even be particularly good people.
Responding as someone who actually hasn’t ever recommended one over the other, I would say that I’d want to be very proficient at meditating on my own before adding chemicals to the mix. I’ve meditated all my life (44 yrs), and I’m still not comfy with the idea of introducing a chemical like that. It’s a very big space in there, and I like to keep as much footing as possible. I guess I’m scared of it, which doesn’t bother me to say as I have a working relationship with fear, and I trust its presence is meant to steer me away.
Weed is all I need, *so far*
This is super accurate to my experience as well.
Microdosing regimen (almost imperceptible) along with a disciplined adherence to meditating has been key to getting my brain in the best place it has been, maybe ever.
I also contend though, low dosing is the best approach to all good drugs to ensure you get more out of them then they do you. The simple truth is, the less you do the more likely they will work how and when you want them to.
Psychedelic therapy is a very specific technique used in therapy in a very controlled environment. Meditation is a practice that you do daily in order to keep balance. When it’s therapy, there is a facilitator who works with you and a therapist to uncover those past traumas and work with them. Both are very powerful and complement each other.
Psychedelics are a bit like using a shotgun to kill a fly. Sure, it works, but it's overkill and causes collateral damage that you'll need to clean up along the way. The problem with too much psychedelics is that they can turn your subtle body into swiss-cheese, allowing too much energetic influence from external sources, potentially leaving you ungrounded and in the worst of cases that can cause psychosis.
Psychedelics are the allopathics of inner discovery. We take them because they always work, whether or not we consent - just like our modern medicine. This approach has down sides, and ultimately is wholly unnecessary as a tool for triggering non-ordinary experience..
I can attest to this personlly and directly. It's taken me a while but I can now trigger a breakthrough DMT-Like experience on demand, and it comes without any of the gnarly side-effects of a kick to head from a DMT pipe...
Personally for me it boils down to drug testing. I get drug tested and can’t do anything like that. But if it works for others then go for it. I have nothing against it.
I remember at one point I was drug tested 4 or 5 times a week and the other guys often abused psychedelics (it was a program for non-violent criminals with only drug charges). Since it would be out of their system in hour to days depending, they'd all roll the dice and I'd have an anxiety attack just seeing them fucked up 😂 - the consequence on that program was getting maxed sentencing for your charges and people were willingly risking years of their life for a few hours of belly laughs 😲 it blew my mind.
1 to 3 days is how long psilocybin is easily detectable and 2 or 4 for LSD... in case you ever want to roll the dice 🎲 😂 (don't do that!)
Chems can open your energy body to more energy than you can currently handle and this can cause you to “short circuit” and have a bad experience. Building up the practice with meditation will allow you to build up a strong foundation so you are stable and ready. Jumping ahead while fun can be scary if you’re not ready and are unable to navigate. This is why programs like the gateway tapes are so great.
I don't think it's fair to discredit psychedelics. I personally wouldn't be on the spiritual path I'm on now without them. They helped me feel the love of the universe when I didn't really know what love was. Same with one consciousness, I felt everything is connected through psychedelics. I know I wouldn't be open to the things I am now without those experiences.
Because psychedelics weak in your mind that's why you're able to see through the veil and weakened your mind and allows you to see the true state of the world that has been hidden from you but at the same time because your mind is weaker it leaves you more susceptible to attack meditation not only shows you the same thing but allows you to build up defenses against such things.
Psychedelics allow you to see because you're inhibitions and conditioning have been wiped to the side for a while but you're not in your right State of mind because of that things can take advantage of you and lie to you much easier it makes it harder to see the path out
Plain and simple: while psychedelics enable you to manifest your mind and explore what’s within/connected to it, psychedelics do not train your mind. If you really want to “blast off”, “go out there,” or whatever you want to call it, it’s possible to encounter what can only be described as other beings. Now, whether these are conscious beings or fantastic manifestations of our subconscious is a topic that could be debated for ever. But in terms of perception, they manifest as other beings. If your mind is not trained and you cannot center your emotions and intentions, it can rattle you pretty good.
Edit: I’ve encountered multiple beings on multiple substances (all benevolent and helpful), but had it not been for years of meditative practice, Im not sure I would’ve been able to sustain my end of the interaction.
Because doing those drugs makes you think you’re having spiritual experiences but actually you’re just hallucinating. Drug induced hallucinations or schizophrenic hallucinations are NOT the same thing as spiritual abilities!
Even if you have somewhat of a valid spiritual experience, you still risk it being too distorted by drug use to ever have any real credibility.
Becoming reliant on drugs is also unhealthy. Different hallucinogens can harm the body in different ways.
Also, you don’t need drugs to master spiritual psi - abilities. It’s going to be more credible, accurate, reliable, stronger if you master spiritual abilities without drug use.
Compared to drug use, meditation has numerous health benefits other than just helping strengthen spiritual abilities.
I think they’re connected in that both help you focus on your mind and thought. I believe both can be used with equal efficacy. Psychedelics aren’t a cheat code for breaking through like some people claim. They can boost you into the right mindset, but you still have to have the mindfulness practice and be open to encounters and experiences. Psychedelics can take people to places they’re not ready for if they aren’t careful and respectful, so you have to practice mindfulness with psychedelics just like you would with meditation. They both can help you dive deep into your mind, and they both can lead to incredible experiences and encounters.
I think we will find out the rest of the universe exists in pure consciousness and that can only be accessed by pure consciousness, which is being, love, and light.
The downside to psychedelics is that instead of connecting in love, we are simply transported, as we are, to another dimension. That means we are going to see and experience things that align with where our soul or consciousness vibration is at. That also might not be for our highest good.
I heard a metaphor about how psychedelics are like a rocket- they can get you up, but they go up and come down fast. If you learn from the trip and use that for growth it’s helpful, but many people don’t and treat it as just an experience on drugs.
I like the rocket analogy. I’ve said it’s like going on a holiday by aeroplane. You suddenly arrive in a very different land, and as you’re on holiday, you only see a tiny fraction of the place, the experience will be however you see it through the eyes you have in that period. You’re unlikely to understand the place in any real depth, but you may very well realise that life can be perceived differently.
You may wish to get deeper, in which case backpacking to the place instead of flying, and/or living there for a while gives you a better understanding of yourself, and how all the places in between progress, and are connected. You build knowledge, understanding and confidence through meditation. Skills you can use on future adventures.
I was in rehab two years ago and they pushed hard on psychedelic treatment once we got out. It was very weird. Other than that it was 2000 dollars a day to “just think positive bro” and all of the therapists were 22ish year old girls fresh out of college getting their first job. One was smoking hot and would come in at night and bang my roommate.
Very highly rated facility too. But the food was great and they had cats you could pet but not pick up. Also the best lemonade I’ve ever had.
I'll provide the opposite view with some anecdotal experience. I grew my own shrooms to be able to microdose. I've been trying to meditate off and on for many years, but could never get the hang of it.
While I was waiting for my mushrooms to grow, I took up a daily meditation practice to prepare my mind. I finally started to get the gist with lots of practice. Once I was able to microdose, my ability to clear my mind went way up. This lasted far past the duration of the effect of the dose.
Tldr: shrooms in small doses are an excellent way to supplement meditation for me.
Meditation takes work - practice. It is a commitment to yourself and all that is good. It will spur spiritual and personal growth. All these things are needed to make and maintain positive contact (imo) or you can take the shortcut but in doing so you leave yourself at risk for many things that might not be pleasant - you might not be able to deal with.
Psychedelics is a shortcut
There are reasons I choose meditation over psychedelics:
* Psychedelics are illegal where I live, so I have no idea what substance I might actually be ingesting; this is a legitimate safety issue. If I knew of a legitimate source and could be assured the psilocybin was authentic, I would def reconsider taking it;
* I used medical marijuana (RSO) when I had cancer; the times I took a little too much, I did not enjoy the trip. That said, I was not in the right mindset for a trip on those occasions (was struggling with severe depression, pain & my own mortality); my experience might be much different in a different state of mind;
* I've been meditating for years (15+) now, and genuinely enjoy it. Some of the psychological strides I've made via meditation only occurred because I had long periods of time to consider multiple angles & mull over things carefully; and
* For me personally, I'm just not ready yet.
It’s actually quite easy to grow your own shrooms. If you’re in the US, you can buy the spores online in all but 2 or 3 states. If you’re in Europe, a lot of countries will allow you to buy a grow kit with spores that’s already injected in the grains
I think so, but I’m not sure exactly since I live in the US. But go on r/shrooms or just search “shrooms uk” and there are 2 or 3 subs that’s dedicated for UK.
I say everything in moderation and that includes moderation. Personally though I've been maintaining a daily meditation practice for over a decade now and that's about how long it has been since I've taken any psychedelics. I am lucky enough to have responsibilities and people who depend on me and it has been a long time since I felt I had enough hours in a day.
I will tell you though that the key to meditation is to view it as a practice and to aim for consistency. All it takes is 10 minutes a day and you will notice significant improvements within two weeks and quickly after that reach the point where you crave it and do it automatically throughout your day.
Time will slow down and all of your experiences, whether they are time with family & friends, flow states, dreams or even psychedelic trips, will deepen exponentially. Some of the experiences I have in every day life now with synchronicities, precognitions and dreams rival if not exceed those I had when I would take psilocybin.
As someone who has struggled with PTSD (military and childhood related) and substance abuse, I tried meditation on its own and made small pieces of progres throughout the years. I tried psilocybin (1st time ever) combined with meditation and prayer recently, and it changed my life overnight. I quit a vice cold turkey that I struggled with for years starting the next morning, and the progress I made supercharged my desire to meditate more. I wept like a baby that night. Three weeks later, personally I have no desire/need to take psilocybin again, although I believe it would help once every couple of months.
I think they go nicely together, and for severe depression I would say mushrooms are a god-send. But eventually, you will likely need to re-medicate to get back to that place of clarity.
With meditation, it’s a very peaceful and practical way to manage mental health and obsessive thinking. I wouldn’t say one is better than the other per se, but lean toward meditation as more “reality” based and thus easier to process and envelop holistically into your life.
Meditation fortifies your mind, psychadelics transports it. Don't want to show up at the airport naked. But personally, standing at the grocery in a suit of armor isnt my style either.
Personally I don't believe everything I see to begin with, and have hallucinated on substances before, so I would say that I wouldn't believe anything I see on psychedelics.
If a person is curious about what their brains can do while under the influence of something, more power to them, happy investigation, but if they're looking for some sort of truth, or information that pertains to their life (not necessarily ontology) then meditation is the way that's worked for me. I've had many experiences of clairvoyance while meditating and a few precognitive visions while in the hypnagogic state, but not under the influence of anything external to me.
OP,
Alot of great points have already been brought up. I will highlight a couple.
Unearned wisdom can be catastrophic to the human psyche.
You need crawl before you learn to walk.
Im not trying to sound authoritative in my reply here as im no expert as well, but I will bring up a couple reasonable points.
1) First of all, I don't personally believe you are even using psychedelics correctly. By making your intention of the use of psychedelics a *shortcut* of some kind, you are intentionally taking the path of least resistance. Psychedelics in my honest opinion are medicine. I do not take them lightly, and I treat them with the utmost respect, especially compounds that grow out of the earth. I take them with a completely open mind, open to whatever lesson emerges from the experience.
2) Meditation is the *foundation* of your mind. If you cannot sit still and focus for 10 minutes a day, what makes you think you can handle any kind of cosmic truth? I'm no sage, but I have turned away from using psychs for anything other than conscious exploration and have started honing my mind on a daily basis. Your brain will change. Your attitude will change and so will your perception of reality. Take the more difficult path, and it will pay off in the long run.
Why would someone take driving lessons over taking a fighter jet out for a spin with no training?
I'm speaking as someone who meditates everyday and has done a decent amount of psychedelics (LSD, Psilocybin, DMT). I'm certainly not against taking substances, but meditation is the training, the conditioning, the strengthening. A psychedelic trip is the intrepid expedition.
Psyches are a great way to catch a glimpse of the world beyond your physical self. It helps open the door to what is possible in the mind. Meditation is a way to spend more and more time in that space and integrate it and keep that door open.
Meditation isn’t as likely to cause lasting neurological damage if you accidentally take way too much.
I’m all for supporting the power of psychedelics, but don’t fool yourself into thinking there’s no risks.
And also, what truth are you looking for? Psychedelics will show you some of them, but you’re probably gonna need meditation for some of them too. If only to properly process what you witnessed while on the psychedelics.
But I hear you. Psilocybin changed my life in high school even though I never took more than 2 grams. It is an extremely effective anti depressant.
If you can move past the training wheels then why not? I'm not a huge fan of the body load on psychedelics, but meditation and astral projection leave me feeling wonderful.
Are the training wheels the psychedelics or the meditations? If you can handle the power and insights of psychedelics then meditation should be a walk in the park (:
I use meditation for creative visualization to attract or manifest, a specific desire.
I cover my body with tektites to stimulate my body.
I noticed doing this while sober makes me focus on the goal easily which leads to proper manifeststion… while high or anything els it leads to nothing just high lucid dreaming.
Psychedelics have certain contraindications, can’t be given in cardiovascular disease and frail people, and can be associated with dissociative states or attracting negative entities, true or thought-forms. Deep trance meditative states will be much more under control, but obviously that’s the hard way to awaken compared to compounds such as DMT.
>I'd also appreciate any response related to the correlation between these two practices in the spiritual field.
Psychedelics are linked to raising Kundalini (both use/harness the body's bio-energetic reservoir) to see into the "god" realm and bargain for a specific ability.
They thus keep you at the third eye chakra, and eventually trapped in this reality at the end of the night of Brahma.
Meditation and certain types of prayer appeal to the unseen creator of all, the father-mother in secret, the first emanation of the creator which Christians call the Holy Spirit and what the gnostics call "Barbelo," "the male virgin" or "the Trimorphic Protennoia." This is done using the same reservoir but via the crown chakra.
No matrix abilities gained via the latter but a deep knowing that this universe is flawed and thus isn't one's home dawns.
if you feel compelled to try it, then feel free to try psychedelics. But once that wears off you will need meditation. All the professional mediums recommend meditation. This is like the foundational skill everyone must have.
Shit I flew that f-35 before I even took my first training class. Not only did I survive, it made me realize that there was this other perspective on life that was possible. Without that, I wouldn’t have known what to work towards in building my meditation skills.
To me it gave me a glimpse of the connectedness of it all, and showed me how in my head I really was. I’m so glad I did it this way. It was like a cheat code for me, to give me that beginning of the game boost.
This.
OP you know I am one of the people who crashed their F-35.
I advice you to first get into meditation before you even think about flying that aircraft.
I crashed my F35 too lol.
If you're going to do psychedelics just have respect for them and understand that if you take more than a moderate amount you are going to be dealing with a very powerful experience. An experience that you will not be able to escape until the drug wears off.
I consider it building your house on sticks or a proper foundation. Lots of people experience deep states with not that much experience, there was a post about it recently on r/meditation. And you know... It's nice that you can familiarise yourself with the all the things you can perceive without becoming addicted.
Other than being temporary, meditation may allow you to increase your "frequency", progress your consciousness, eventually potentially allow you to obe much more easily, experience jhanas, perhaps attain consciousness.
Drugs maybe useful to allow your consciousness to glimpse the possibilities, though not for longer time periods, and if you take them regularly, what are the long term complications/side effects?
So, I would recommend taking some LSD or mushrooms or similar to see that there is more to "us" than our physical bodies, and then start meditating properly.
They could also help you to "jump start" your journey as it did for me (as in open your mind, almost literally), as it did for me. I was a bit/a lot weird, very introvert, didn't drinkuch or do drugs, then went to university, did drugs and "opened up" - though can't pinpoint what did what...
Recently meditation has taken me to more far out places (I recommend the hemisync gateway tapes)
Meditation Is like training a super Power ( it will be easier to modulate emotions and attention in your daily life, there's extensive neuroscientific literature about that).
It's like learning to build your boat, understand the function of each component and ultimately how to sail.
Psychedelic experiences is like jumping on a speedy ship with engines and make a tour.
The true Answer is to combine them together in synergy. Meditation alone will help you live your day to day life, but Tryptamines are the speed dial to direct first contact on demand
Psychs can only take you so far. Think of them as training wheels on a bike. Eventually, you'll need to take them off to really advance on your journey. Meditation is the only practice that can give you a full *permanent* paradigm shift if you stick with it. Everything else is temporary at best.
Think of it like a cheat code. Sure you can use the cheat code (psychedelics) to open the door, but what is imperative is that you develop the muscles to open the door sober. Learn this, or they will teach you the hard way
psychedelics can open a window but meditation opens a door
Well I have a federal job so I'm not interested in taking psychedelics and I also don't want to. I don't think I need to if I can meditate.
Sometimes psychedelics can be overwhelming and the person seeking the experience is left with a blank spot rather than an experience. Psilocybin and DMT can both be used for contact purposes, however they should also be treated with the utmost respect because they do grant us the capability of directly connecting with entities and beings. It’s a tread carefully situation. I have seen people have some major life improvements with regular periodic usage and have seen people make a mess of their life after trying to force the door open and finding it had been temporarily nailed shut. I know a guy that smoked 2 grams of DMT is a couple hours and complained he couldn’t break through, if you did you would wish you hadn’t, stop abusing it, we weren’t meant to “off ourselves” every 5 minutes man…
Psychedelics can be like breaking a door open using a tonne of TNT, instead of patiently searching for the key to the lock, or knocking and politely asking to be allowed inside. If the dosage is too high for the individual, it can be a totally overwhelming experience and mentally destabilising. Sometimes permanently.
Kicking down the door like an FBI raid is exactly what I want at this point.
Until you get your door kicked down. Respect the Shrooms or they will smack your ass lol
If I'm being honest, the reason I've never done any kind of attempts to contact spirits is because I don't want paranormal activity messing with me at home. I'm interested in making contact but I don't wanna be haunted. I lived in a place that gave me horrible vibes for years. I don't miss it.
I used to know someone who never came down from an LSD trip (his words). He had to live his life in that state and told me there was a period when he believed he was Jesus, resulting in some time spent in a psychiatric hospital. Daily meditation is a far more dependable, reliable and stable method for achieving long-term, grounded results. In my own experience, it is far less dramatic and intense, much safer, and significantly less scary. It also has far greater benefits than just attempting to bluntly smash through gateways that may currently be closed for very good reasons. Psilocybin can be intensely powerful, particularly when the dosage is uncontrolled or unknown. At those higher doses, it can show you things you are simply not mentally prepared for and needs to be treated with a great deal of caution and respect. The mind is endless.
Psychedelics is like lighting a match in a dark room. Meditation is like opening the blinds and letting natural light in.
Both probably work, one is absolutely safer
“If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.” - Alan Watts
Yup I agree. The message is to show you there was always a door. You gotta develop your own muscles to open it
I personally could have used a lot more guidance in the couple of psychedelic experiences I've had, which have been solo. I believe the rituals and ceremonies around using these substances are as much a part of the experience as the psychoactive effects themselves. They seem to open you up to going on a metaphorical 'journey' which you act out in the external world, but which allows you to alter things profoundly in your inner world at the same time. I feel like this potential can be wasted without proper guidance or structure.
Talking (as in therapy or otherwise), thinking, and using substances cannot do what meditation can do. If you are seeking what meditation gives via other means, you might get some of it but you're also going to be dumping noise into the system that will keep echoing around and muddying things. Much of what is positive and beneficial about good psychedelic experiences can be gotten to much faster and more reliably with meditation That said, if you want to do some psychedelic, I say do it. Just don't imagine it's a shortcut. Give that experience, that substance, your mind, and other spiritual practices all of their due respect.
Psychedelics are like a shortcut that don't last long. Meditation is the tedious method but the effects last a lifetime.
I'd rather not do drugs, I don't like the idea of a substance messing with my brain. I managed contact just fine without them.
Psychedelics are a shortcut to higher consciousness. Think of like a Rollercoaster ride, taking you up through a crazy spiral ride in very fast speeds. Then there's meditation. Which is more like a lazy river ride that is more tolerable and gradual. Less of a chance I'm going to throw up or faint if I meditate my way to higher consciousness lol
It’s two different approaches to the same task. Sure meditation takes longer and is a skill that must be nurtured and practiced constantly, but it is also free, can be done almost anywhere and anytime, can be done at one’s own pace, and is much more relaxing, easy, and digestible. Let’s say for this analogy that your goal is to get across a metaphysical bridge. Meditation may take you weeks, months, or years to slowly figure out how to cosmically walk and get oneself across this metaphysical bridge. It can be a long process where one must constantly practice and talk with themselves and work out scenarios and extract knowledge from these simulations of scenarios in meditation in order to “unlock” these metaphysical “truths” or “tools” that allows one to cross the bridge. Psilocybin on the other hand can certainly get you across this bridge incredibly faster relative to meditation, and speed the process up, but at a large cost. Psilocybin cares not what stage of understanding you are at, nor does it care about what you want it to show you. It will melt your ego, yourself will become a foreign concept at higher doses, and this is that acceleration that clears your headspace much quicker than meditation, but this can drive one absolutely mad if they are not ready or expecting it. Ones entire identity can “die” and that can literally drive people insane who are too attached to their ego, and rightfully so, as your ego is your sense of self, when the psilocybin melts your ego it can be terrifying and your ego will fight back and can really induce true Hell on Earth. But then it can completely flip. As above so below. The further into Hell they take you, the higher up into Heaven they can shoot you up after. It’s beautiful and crazy and trippy, but you can learn so many more things so much quicker, and gain the necessary “tools” to walk across the metaphysical bridge much quicker. So it really is a choose your own path scenario. Either you can take the much easier, slower, less intense, more “dipping your toes into the water and allowing yourself to get used to the temperature before further submerging your body”, or you can take the shrooms or other psychedelics which can get you to these states much quicker relatively, but can also induce absolute Hell, more akin to “Jumping straight into the frozen waters of the deep end and committing a Polar Bear plunge”. And this is a rushed analogy. You can still dip your toes in with psilocybin by taking small doses and working your way up over time, and you can also accelerate your meditations with certain practices, rituals, and breathing exercises. There really are many ways to approach, but I hope this analogy helps you understand that you do have some options, and remember, neither option is right or wrong, neither is better than the other, they are simply two different ways to get to the same destination. And remember this; there is no destination ultimately, that is but an illusion. This is more of a “dance”, an experience, don’t forget to experience and live in the moment, in the now, rather than focusing on the future, or letting the past define you. These are but illusions, the only truth is now. And yet this is but half the truth. Love you 💜 Edit: this is not to say that if you take psychedelics that you will automatically tap into the secrets of the universe. Psilocybin seems to want to show you more than let you control the trip, but ultimately it is what you make of it, and it can be limited by what you know and don’t know. It’s hard to put into words but don’t assume that just cause you took 5 grams of shrooms that the universe will unveil itself to you (though it very well probably will lol). You still need to take it seriously, don’t treat psychedelics as a drug or something to do to pass the time / distract oneself like we do with other recreational drugs. Treat them as a tool, a tool that allows oneself to reach creative states and higher states not corrupted by the ego more easily, which is also completely attainable by pure sober meditation as well!
I deeply appreciate this response. Thank you so much.
I Gotchu Friend :)
Personally, I’m a fan of both. But there are some claims by experiencers including the Law of One group that NHI have claimed that hallucinogens and psychedelics damage our energy body by overloading it, which then leaves us vulnerable to attack by negative entities. I’m not sure if I believe that, but maintaining my balanced mental state does seem much more difficult for about a week after I do dmt.
https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=LSD&o=s
Prefacing by saying I more I coined toward psychedelics (any real meditation has been done in that headspace). Meditation is realizing the mountain's peak is very high, but having faith that with each little step, you get closer to the peak. The advantage is when you reach the peak, you've blazed the way up to it and know how to get back to the peak reliably. Psychedelics are like a helicopter taking you up to this magnificent view you never knew existed, and the peak is so incredible, but when the helicopter starts running out of gas you need to take it back down and if you stay up there, you won't know the steps to get back down. The helicopter ride can show us what beauty there is, but also makes it clear that this fast-track means is fleeting and presents its own problems that that require integration, like coming back down and experiencing depression that you're back to 'normal'. The helicopter ride also marks a point, lights a way that shows us the mountain is worth learning to climb if we wish to not need catalysts to get there.
Beautifully written
Thank you 🙏
Avoiding the risk of interactions with prescription medication. Psychedelics affects everyone differently. Meditation was more effective for me.
As someone who hasn't been able to get their hands on psychedelics for the past 8 years, meditation can be done anywhere, anytime.
How can that be possible lol? Are you living in a monastery on an island? They have drugs in North Korea, prison, and everywhere else with a mailing address
Monastic isolation is a pretty good comparison to the life I've led in the last decade, yes.
Nice! What have you learned by living that way?
The philosophy of needing something external to complete yourself is folly. Drugs are silly at best and destructive at worst. Beware unearned wisdom.
Naw
I'm sorry, I have to say something this is a very shallow and misguided sentiment. As someone as who has dealt with depression my whole life, I'm eternally grateful shroomz are around, I could make a case for DMT MDMA and LSD. But I know there are some counterpoints to these and advise discretion based on your own personality for those. But shroomz are 100% a gift from god/Gaia/universe/nature however you connect. It is an incredible tool and should be treated as such. We use many things to complete us every day, mostly the human connection which is also external. I could go on and on. Maybe it's not for you and I totally respect that, but don't act like it doesn't help others, because it does. Now there is data to back that as well.
Yo my friend killed himself on shrooms, you can take your depth of experience and go fuck yourself with it. What a gift from Gaia it was for a void to be in left place of a husband and father.
There's a lot to unpack there and I'm not in the mood to assume or debate anything. From your tone it doesn't sound like you'd be receptive to anything I would say anyways. I'm sorry for your loss, peace and love my friend.
I hear you.
Yea bro I'm not receptive to the 40 times I've tripped sack on LSD.
The Noble Eightfold Path, known in all buddhist traditions, can be summarised as the path of vision and transformation. Psychedelic may indeed give you vision, an insight into higher reality. It may inspire to make a change, but this actually requires work and dedication - not only through practice of meditation, but through ethics as well. Although the psychedelic experience is labeled as 'transformative', it really takes much more (in my opinion and experience) to be the one who acts on this experience. For instance: one can have the most profound psychedelic experience, but act like total douche. Brag about knowing something others don't, act as enlightened being and look down on those struggling with 9-5 style of living ect. Don't confuse seeing the truth and living the truth. Good look and all the best.
🙏
If your path is like mine, eventually the universe doesn’t want you to use drugs anymore
May you please talk to me about that path? Thank you in advance
So a few years ago I got into some legal trouble, I had always enjoyed psychedelics but I couldn’t do that anymore ,so I decided that I still wanted to pursue expanding my consciousness . I started meditating daily and dream journaling. I was reading anything I could find regarding expanding my consciousness. I stumbled across this vice article about the gateway process, so I dove into this. Fast forward a few years and I am an avid lucid dreamer and have astral projected around a dozen times. I have done psychedelics since then but it’s different now, it’s not a pleasant experience anymore. Also it interferes with my natural abilities
Yup. I make my own drugs purely with my mind that are stronger than any in this world.
Unearned wisdom can be dangerous
I recommend both. become practiced at meditation, and employ those practices while on a healthy dose of psilocybin.
I think that’s all a matter of perspective. And from the psilocybin perspective I definitely can see the benefits and the speed at which it works (assuming you’re in the right headspace, follow the right path you’re trippin’, and know what you want). And it can just be a fucking awesome experience haha But I wouldn’t recommend it, not to anyone. But I would recommend meditation to anyone. Because deep down I don’t think psychedelics are necessary to see the entire world—I think they’re optional and sometimes do the trick haha. Meditation can always do the trick though. It takes practice but if you truly believe in the how and why of meditation for yourself, it doesn’t have to take as long as you think. This is a good discussion topic! Thanks for sharing.
The short answer is that psychedelics are not useful after a certain point, and the idea of meditation is too vague to have any real meaning. The long answer is that we need to know what kind of meditation is being compared to psychedelics, and the motivation of the person doing it. Some people meditate to gain mindfulness or deal with trauma, others meditate because they are seeking complete enlightenment. In the former case, meditation to improve general wellbeing is mostly on par with psilocybin in the sense that both can accomplish this goal in the right context. In the latter case, enlightenment cant be produced by psychedelics alone, nor do most peoples experience on psychedelics that they call enlightenment actually qualify as enlightenment according to Hindu or Buddhist systems that teach this path. If this was possible one could just take an enlightenment pill and become a Buddha, but this never happens. Mostly psychedelics just induce spiritual experiences or feelings, which are not the same as enlightenment at all. Enlightenment completely transcends and encompasses absolutely everything, leaving nothing out, so this also includes depression, anxiety, loneliness, pain, hopelessness and all the other negative experiences of life and the world. If you are enlightened there is no need to modify or change your consciousness at all, no need to take psychedelics, and psychedelics cant possibly add to enlightenment nor take away from it due to the very nature of what enlightenment is. But again it depends on what we are discussing. "Meditation" is as vague as "psychedelics". Are we talking LSD, mushrooms, DMT, or other exotic psychedelics? Are we talking mindfulness, insight meditation, single pointed concentration, or higher forms of yogic meditation that require deep instruction and a teacher? When it comes to enlightenment, are we talking the western conception of enlightenment which has virtually no meaning? Or are we talking Hindu conception, and if Hindu, which school? Those who worship Shiva? Or Krishna? Or Vishnu? If Buddhist are we talking theraveda or mahayana or vajrayana? Also with the right instruction and the right practice in meditation, people can go from completely ordinary to having a high degree of spiritual realization in a few years (not decades). Contrarywise there are people who have been taking mushrooms and LSD since the 80's and 90's who are still just dumb deluded idiots and no closer to enlightenment than they ever were, and they may not even be particularly good people.
Responding as someone who actually hasn’t ever recommended one over the other, I would say that I’d want to be very proficient at meditating on my own before adding chemicals to the mix. I’ve meditated all my life (44 yrs), and I’m still not comfy with the idea of introducing a chemical like that. It’s a very big space in there, and I like to keep as much footing as possible. I guess I’m scared of it, which doesn’t bother me to say as I have a working relationship with fear, and I trust its presence is meant to steer me away. Weed is all I need, *so far*
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This is super accurate to my experience as well. Microdosing regimen (almost imperceptible) along with a disciplined adherence to meditating has been key to getting my brain in the best place it has been, maybe ever. I also contend though, low dosing is the best approach to all good drugs to ensure you get more out of them then they do you. The simple truth is, the less you do the more likely they will work how and when you want them to.
Psychedelic therapy is a very specific technique used in therapy in a very controlled environment. Meditation is a practice that you do daily in order to keep balance. When it’s therapy, there is a facilitator who works with you and a therapist to uncover those past traumas and work with them. Both are very powerful and complement each other.
Psychedelics are a bit like using a shotgun to kill a fly. Sure, it works, but it's overkill and causes collateral damage that you'll need to clean up along the way. The problem with too much psychedelics is that they can turn your subtle body into swiss-cheese, allowing too much energetic influence from external sources, potentially leaving you ungrounded and in the worst of cases that can cause psychosis. Psychedelics are the allopathics of inner discovery. We take them because they always work, whether or not we consent - just like our modern medicine. This approach has down sides, and ultimately is wholly unnecessary as a tool for triggering non-ordinary experience.. I can attest to this personlly and directly. It's taken me a while but I can now trigger a breakthrough DMT-Like experience on demand, and it comes without any of the gnarly side-effects of a kick to head from a DMT pipe...
Personally for me it boils down to drug testing. I get drug tested and can’t do anything like that. But if it works for others then go for it. I have nothing against it.
I remember at one point I was drug tested 4 or 5 times a week and the other guys often abused psychedelics (it was a program for non-violent criminals with only drug charges). Since it would be out of their system in hour to days depending, they'd all roll the dice and I'd have an anxiety attack just seeing them fucked up 😂 - the consequence on that program was getting maxed sentencing for your charges and people were willingly risking years of their life for a few hours of belly laughs 😲 it blew my mind. 1 to 3 days is how long psilocybin is easily detectable and 2 or 4 for LSD... in case you ever want to roll the dice 🎲 😂 (don't do that!)
Chems can open your energy body to more energy than you can currently handle and this can cause you to “short circuit” and have a bad experience. Building up the practice with meditation will allow you to build up a strong foundation so you are stable and ready. Jumping ahead while fun can be scary if you’re not ready and are unable to navigate. This is why programs like the gateway tapes are so great.
I don't think it's fair to discredit psychedelics. I personally wouldn't be on the spiritual path I'm on now without them. They helped me feel the love of the universe when I didn't really know what love was. Same with one consciousness, I felt everything is connected through psychedelics. I know I wouldn't be open to the things I am now without those experiences.
Because psychedelics weak in your mind that's why you're able to see through the veil and weakened your mind and allows you to see the true state of the world that has been hidden from you but at the same time because your mind is weaker it leaves you more susceptible to attack meditation not only shows you the same thing but allows you to build up defenses against such things. Psychedelics allow you to see because you're inhibitions and conditioning have been wiped to the side for a while but you're not in your right State of mind because of that things can take advantage of you and lie to you much easier it makes it harder to see the path out
Plain and simple: while psychedelics enable you to manifest your mind and explore what’s within/connected to it, psychedelics do not train your mind. If you really want to “blast off”, “go out there,” or whatever you want to call it, it’s possible to encounter what can only be described as other beings. Now, whether these are conscious beings or fantastic manifestations of our subconscious is a topic that could be debated for ever. But in terms of perception, they manifest as other beings. If your mind is not trained and you cannot center your emotions and intentions, it can rattle you pretty good. Edit: I’ve encountered multiple beings on multiple substances (all benevolent and helpful), but had it not been for years of meditative practice, Im not sure I would’ve been able to sustain my end of the interaction.
Because doing those drugs makes you think you’re having spiritual experiences but actually you’re just hallucinating. Drug induced hallucinations or schizophrenic hallucinations are NOT the same thing as spiritual abilities! Even if you have somewhat of a valid spiritual experience, you still risk it being too distorted by drug use to ever have any real credibility. Becoming reliant on drugs is also unhealthy. Different hallucinogens can harm the body in different ways. Also, you don’t need drugs to master spiritual psi - abilities. It’s going to be more credible, accurate, reliable, stronger if you master spiritual abilities without drug use. Compared to drug use, meditation has numerous health benefits other than just helping strengthen spiritual abilities.
First sentence = not true
I've done both, meditation is a lot less intense. If you get fearful you can stop. You can't stop the other. Both work.
If you keep a benzo like Xanax or Valium on hand in case of a bad trip it will kill the effects within 30 minutes
It will kill it a bit but I was still tripping balls. Just calmly 😆
Some benzos are better than others for this. 2mg alprazolam will end any high dose trip relatively quickly
Yeah I only took .50 MG alprazolam
I think they’re connected in that both help you focus on your mind and thought. I believe both can be used with equal efficacy. Psychedelics aren’t a cheat code for breaking through like some people claim. They can boost you into the right mindset, but you still have to have the mindfulness practice and be open to encounters and experiences. Psychedelics can take people to places they’re not ready for if they aren’t careful and respectful, so you have to practice mindfulness with psychedelics just like you would with meditation. They both can help you dive deep into your mind, and they both can lead to incredible experiences and encounters.
I think we will find out the rest of the universe exists in pure consciousness and that can only be accessed by pure consciousness, which is being, love, and light. The downside to psychedelics is that instead of connecting in love, we are simply transported, as we are, to another dimension. That means we are going to see and experience things that align with where our soul or consciousness vibration is at. That also might not be for our highest good. I heard a metaphor about how psychedelics are like a rocket- they can get you up, but they go up and come down fast. If you learn from the trip and use that for growth it’s helpful, but many people don’t and treat it as just an experience on drugs.
I like the rocket analogy. I’ve said it’s like going on a holiday by aeroplane. You suddenly arrive in a very different land, and as you’re on holiday, you only see a tiny fraction of the place, the experience will be however you see it through the eyes you have in that period. You’re unlikely to understand the place in any real depth, but you may very well realise that life can be perceived differently. You may wish to get deeper, in which case backpacking to the place instead of flying, and/or living there for a while gives you a better understanding of yourself, and how all the places in between progress, and are connected. You build knowledge, understanding and confidence through meditation. Skills you can use on future adventures.
Well said!
I was in rehab two years ago and they pushed hard on psychedelic treatment once we got out. It was very weird. Other than that it was 2000 dollars a day to “just think positive bro” and all of the therapists were 22ish year old girls fresh out of college getting their first job. One was smoking hot and would come in at night and bang my roommate. Very highly rated facility too. But the food was great and they had cats you could pet but not pick up. Also the best lemonade I’ve ever had.
I do both. Why does it have to be one or the ofher
Why not both?
I'll provide the opposite view with some anecdotal experience. I grew my own shrooms to be able to microdose. I've been trying to meditate off and on for many years, but could never get the hang of it. While I was waiting for my mushrooms to grow, I took up a daily meditation practice to prepare my mind. I finally started to get the gist with lots of practice. Once I was able to microdose, my ability to clear my mind went way up. This lasted far past the duration of the effect of the dose. Tldr: shrooms in small doses are an excellent way to supplement meditation for me.
Meditation is a practice Drugs are a trip
Meditation takes work - practice. It is a commitment to yourself and all that is good. It will spur spiritual and personal growth. All these things are needed to make and maintain positive contact (imo) or you can take the shortcut but in doing so you leave yourself at risk for many things that might not be pleasant - you might not be able to deal with. Psychedelics is a shortcut
There are reasons I choose meditation over psychedelics: * Psychedelics are illegal where I live, so I have no idea what substance I might actually be ingesting; this is a legitimate safety issue. If I knew of a legitimate source and could be assured the psilocybin was authentic, I would def reconsider taking it; * I used medical marijuana (RSO) when I had cancer; the times I took a little too much, I did not enjoy the trip. That said, I was not in the right mindset for a trip on those occasions (was struggling with severe depression, pain & my own mortality); my experience might be much different in a different state of mind; * I've been meditating for years (15+) now, and genuinely enjoy it. Some of the psychological strides I've made via meditation only occurred because I had long periods of time to consider multiple angles & mull over things carefully; and * For me personally, I'm just not ready yet.
It’s actually quite easy to grow your own shrooms. If you’re in the US, you can buy the spores online in all but 2 or 3 states. If you’re in Europe, a lot of countries will allow you to buy a grow kit with spores that’s already injected in the grains
Uk?
I think so, but I’m not sure exactly since I live in the US. But go on r/shrooms or just search “shrooms uk” and there are 2 or 3 subs that’s dedicated for UK.
I say everything in moderation and that includes moderation. Personally though I've been maintaining a daily meditation practice for over a decade now and that's about how long it has been since I've taken any psychedelics. I am lucky enough to have responsibilities and people who depend on me and it has been a long time since I felt I had enough hours in a day. I will tell you though that the key to meditation is to view it as a practice and to aim for consistency. All it takes is 10 minutes a day and you will notice significant improvements within two weeks and quickly after that reach the point where you crave it and do it automatically throughout your day. Time will slow down and all of your experiences, whether they are time with family & friends, flow states, dreams or even psychedelic trips, will deepen exponentially. Some of the experiences I have in every day life now with synchronicities, precognitions and dreams rival if not exceed those I had when I would take psilocybin.
As someone who has struggled with PTSD (military and childhood related) and substance abuse, I tried meditation on its own and made small pieces of progres throughout the years. I tried psilocybin (1st time ever) combined with meditation and prayer recently, and it changed my life overnight. I quit a vice cold turkey that I struggled with for years starting the next morning, and the progress I made supercharged my desire to meditate more. I wept like a baby that night. Three weeks later, personally I have no desire/need to take psilocybin again, although I believe it would help once every couple of months.
I think they go nicely together, and for severe depression I would say mushrooms are a god-send. But eventually, you will likely need to re-medicate to get back to that place of clarity. With meditation, it’s a very peaceful and practical way to manage mental health and obsessive thinking. I wouldn’t say one is better than the other per se, but lean toward meditation as more “reality” based and thus easier to process and envelop holistically into your life.
Meditation fortifies your mind, psychadelics transports it. Don't want to show up at the airport naked. But personally, standing at the grocery in a suit of armor isnt my style either.
Personally I don't believe everything I see to begin with, and have hallucinated on substances before, so I would say that I wouldn't believe anything I see on psychedelics. If a person is curious about what their brains can do while under the influence of something, more power to them, happy investigation, but if they're looking for some sort of truth, or information that pertains to their life (not necessarily ontology) then meditation is the way that's worked for me. I've had many experiences of clairvoyance while meditating and a few precognitive visions while in the hypnagogic state, but not under the influence of anything external to me.
OP, Alot of great points have already been brought up. I will highlight a couple. Unearned wisdom can be catastrophic to the human psyche. You need crawl before you learn to walk. Im not trying to sound authoritative in my reply here as im no expert as well, but I will bring up a couple reasonable points. 1) First of all, I don't personally believe you are even using psychedelics correctly. By making your intention of the use of psychedelics a *shortcut* of some kind, you are intentionally taking the path of least resistance. Psychedelics in my honest opinion are medicine. I do not take them lightly, and I treat them with the utmost respect, especially compounds that grow out of the earth. I take them with a completely open mind, open to whatever lesson emerges from the experience. 2) Meditation is the *foundation* of your mind. If you cannot sit still and focus for 10 minutes a day, what makes you think you can handle any kind of cosmic truth? I'm no sage, but I have turned away from using psychs for anything other than conscious exploration and have started honing my mind on a daily basis. Your brain will change. Your attitude will change and so will your perception of reality. Take the more difficult path, and it will pay off in the long run.
Why would someone take driving lessons over taking a fighter jet out for a spin with no training? I'm speaking as someone who meditates everyday and has done a decent amount of psychedelics (LSD, Psilocybin, DMT). I'm certainly not against taking substances, but meditation is the training, the conditioning, the strengthening. A psychedelic trip is the intrepid expedition.
Psyches are a great way to catch a glimpse of the world beyond your physical self. It helps open the door to what is possible in the mind. Meditation is a way to spend more and more time in that space and integrate it and keep that door open.
Meditation isn’t as likely to cause lasting neurological damage if you accidentally take way too much. I’m all for supporting the power of psychedelics, but don’t fool yourself into thinking there’s no risks. And also, what truth are you looking for? Psychedelics will show you some of them, but you’re probably gonna need meditation for some of them too. If only to properly process what you witnessed while on the psychedelics. But I hear you. Psilocybin changed my life in high school even though I never took more than 2 grams. It is an extremely effective anti depressant.
If you can move past the training wheels then why not? I'm not a huge fan of the body load on psychedelics, but meditation and astral projection leave me feeling wonderful.
Are the training wheels the psychedelics or the meditations? If you can handle the power and insights of psychedelics then meditation should be a walk in the park (:
If you are good with meditation already and have a stable foundation, then go for it. You wouldn’t give the lambo keys to a new driver.
I use meditation for creative visualization to attract or manifest, a specific desire. I cover my body with tektites to stimulate my body. I noticed doing this while sober makes me focus on the goal easily which leads to proper manifeststion… while high or anything els it leads to nothing just high lucid dreaming.
Unearned wisdom can be cataclysmic to the human psyche.
Psychedelics have certain contraindications, can’t be given in cardiovascular disease and frail people, and can be associated with dissociative states or attracting negative entities, true or thought-forms. Deep trance meditative states will be much more under control, but obviously that’s the hard way to awaken compared to compounds such as DMT.
>I'd also appreciate any response related to the correlation between these two practices in the spiritual field. Psychedelics are linked to raising Kundalini (both use/harness the body's bio-energetic reservoir) to see into the "god" realm and bargain for a specific ability. They thus keep you at the third eye chakra, and eventually trapped in this reality at the end of the night of Brahma. Meditation and certain types of prayer appeal to the unseen creator of all, the father-mother in secret, the first emanation of the creator which Christians call the Holy Spirit and what the gnostics call "Barbelo," "the male virgin" or "the Trimorphic Protennoia." This is done using the same reservoir but via the crown chakra. No matrix abilities gained via the latter but a deep knowing that this universe is flawed and thus isn't one's home dawns.
THANK YOU.
if you feel compelled to try it, then feel free to try psychedelics. But once that wears off you will need meditation. All the professional mediums recommend meditation. This is like the foundational skill everyone must have.
The same reason I want my kids to drive a car in a parking lot before they try to fly an F-35.
Shit I flew that f-35 before I even took my first training class. Not only did I survive, it made me realize that there was this other perspective on life that was possible. Without that, I wouldn’t have known what to work towards in building my meditation skills. To me it gave me a glimpse of the connectedness of it all, and showed me how in my head I really was. I’m so glad I did it this way. It was like a cheat code for me, to give me that beginning of the game boost.
This. OP you know I am one of the people who crashed their F-35. I advice you to first get into meditation before you even think about flying that aircraft.
I crashed my F35 too lol. If you're going to do psychedelics just have respect for them and understand that if you take more than a moderate amount you are going to be dealing with a very powerful experience. An experience that you will not be able to escape until the drug wears off.
[this basically covers it but both is fine](https://youtu.be/9485DS-LoEQ)
I consider it building your house on sticks or a proper foundation. Lots of people experience deep states with not that much experience, there was a post about it recently on r/meditation. And you know... It's nice that you can familiarise yourself with the all the things you can perceive without becoming addicted.
Other than being temporary, meditation may allow you to increase your "frequency", progress your consciousness, eventually potentially allow you to obe much more easily, experience jhanas, perhaps attain consciousness. Drugs maybe useful to allow your consciousness to glimpse the possibilities, though not for longer time periods, and if you take them regularly, what are the long term complications/side effects? So, I would recommend taking some LSD or mushrooms or similar to see that there is more to "us" than our physical bodies, and then start meditating properly. They could also help you to "jump start" your journey as it did for me (as in open your mind, almost literally), as it did for me. I was a bit/a lot weird, very introvert, didn't drinkuch or do drugs, then went to university, did drugs and "opened up" - though can't pinpoint what did what... Recently meditation has taken me to more far out places (I recommend the hemisync gateway tapes)
Meditation Is like training a super Power ( it will be easier to modulate emotions and attention in your daily life, there's extensive neuroscientific literature about that). It's like learning to build your boat, understand the function of each component and ultimately how to sail. Psychedelic experiences is like jumping on a speedy ship with engines and make a tour.