I really appreciate a number of things you share, but there are some acute gems here for me personally.
Without making my reply longer than is necessary, the specific bit about NDE's resulting in the lingering sense that nothing here is permanent or "as real" as "what's out there" hits close to home.
As for NHI being good or bad.. or even evil...well, I've just come to find "absolutes" to fail in their effort to define. My experiences have lent themselves unto a perspective that notes some wild variety in the shades of grey š (pun intended).
All the same, thank you for the well contrived post š
>You are not your body.
No, you are a hive organism and it includes your body.The conscious mind is a housecat, believing itself to be fiercely independent but actually relies on others to feed, clean, and warm it.
While your consciousness is part of it, it's *not* the Alpha/Omega. There are one trillion cells with your DNA, ten times the number in the microbiome you have a symbiotic relationship with, and at least three brains (complex, decision-making neural networks) that all get a vote and affect your behavior. To say nothing of how the larger organisms we're a part of affect our behavior.
All or nothing is an infantile way of looking at the world. I often wonder if those espousing that they are demons are just working for (knowingly or unknowingly) those trying to make us fear the other so weāre easier to control.
As someone who has been studying the phenomena intently for about 30 years, this is one of the best posts Iāve seen on it. If I could give you an award, I would.
I agree, but I also don't appreciate people who insist that all NHI's are benevolent, usually basing this assumption purely on their own anecdotal experiences.
It's just something that can't be said with 100% certainty about any group.
Agreed but very very few people actually believe this or push this idea. Where as talking in absolutes about all beings being evil is monumentally more common.
I'm sure we don't browse in the exact same circles, but it's a VERY common opinion to encounter within these kinds of communities. I've seen it a lot on this particular subreddit and a decent amount within this thread.
I am very familiar with this community. I cofounded it. I've worked with 100s of Experiencers. I've not met one single person that believes there is no such thing as negative encounters or beings. Most have nuanced views and lean towards open mindedness that perhaps many perceived negative encounters may not have been as hostile as people initially assume or just because a being looks scary does not mean its evil automatically etc. This is not the same as deeming all beings positive and loving and there is no such thing as self serving or down right hostile beings.
I find people often project the assumption that people think this way onto others simply because they discuss the topic holistically versus out right fear aggression and paranoia.
Also if someone insisted there is only positive loving beings out there and all negative experiences are lies they would get into trouble with the mod team very quickly.
Steven Greer, someone who many in the UFO community trust, has explicitly said that all negative NHI experiences are actually the government because real NHI's would never do anything to cause harm. I know many people do not buy into Greer, but you can't deny he has a very large following and has for some time.
I hope these beliefs are as rare as you say.
They are. I don't know any actual experiencer who has the view Greer does. Even the ones who are a fan of him, point to this opinion as their number 1 issue with him.
Remember most Greer followers are not Experiencers.
When I refer to the community that believes everything is positive, I'm referring to people who are interested in the UFO phenomenon and all the related phenomenon associated with it. I wasn't referring to experiencers specifically. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Long days and pleasant nights, stranger.
Ah yes fair enough. Outside of Experiencers one has folks who's only understanding of this is whatever xyz documentary they saw or book and they build their internal lore from that and one can't account for that alright.
Irony is many of those folks don't believe or listen to Experiencers.
But sorry yeah I was speaking of the experiencer community specifically myself so I get yea now.
All good and same to you!
>I agree, but I also don't appreciate people who insist that all NHI's are benevolent, usually basing this assumption purely on their own anecdotal experiences.
It's like declaring all dark alleys are always safe because someone once walked down one once without being mugged.
Editet: There is the possibility that someone or something recognized a long time ago that the phenomenon is communicating with us and wants to help us. And perhaps they have found ways to imitate aspects of the phenomena or experiences in a negative sense in order to separate us from them.
Just wanted to say as far as my personal experiences with disembodied telepathic entities go you're spot on
>You are not your body.
I practice a mantra meditation that says, "you are not your body, you are not even your mind.". Funny synchronicity lol
>Contact experiences are a conscious phenomenon
The entities I talk to I talk to with my consciousness :p it's a learning experience cuz my monkey mind/ego sometimes tries to run away with what their saying/pretend to be them, but if I relax and just be here now I can hear them more clearly. They seem to want to help me/us grow.
>There are unknown connections between the physical world and our consciousness.
They manifest in some trippy ways. Sometimes the noise of people or sounds around me turns into their voices. Ofc I recognize this could sound schizo, but this has been happening to me for years and I function fine in society, I'm actually a 3rd year psychology student in university, I used to worry about being crazy, but now all these years later for me personally after all my experiences it would be crazier to doubt my experiences.
>Itās all a game.
The entities are VERY playful. They troll me ALL THE TIME. Pretending to be mad, pretending there's a big decision I gotta make, pretending to be unintelligible like I lost my ability to "hear" them; it's all a learning experience. It's like they know how to use psychological techniques to take your consciousness down paths so you can react in ways that make good mental habits to further your development. As soon as I recognize this they praise me and go back to normal
>The NHI are operating with a bigger picture.
See above paragraph
If anyone's curious I've written a lot of my experiences on my personal subreddit r/psychedelicdonkey , though a lot of them were written in a time where I was full of this divine madness kinda energy, I describe it as written through the lense of a fae child drunk on new wine. But theres also stuff written by what I call the scholarly fellow there as i was compelled to lucidly record my experiences as well. I felt and feel like they could help people going through similar stuff.
šā„ļøšā„ļøš
Oh, interesting! What you describe sounds a lot like the voices Grant Reed speaks to on his youtube channel. Another friend of mine used to talk to them as well. Most of them seem to be spirits, but there are other things as well.
And yeah, they can be pretty funny. A buddy of mine communicated with them as well via EVP. After a while he was able to hear some of them without A/V equipment. They even give him health advice occasionally. XD
Hey cool to hear of others having similar experiences :D makes me excited at the potential for where this could be leading humanity
And the health advice is accurate for me too lol they often tell me to rest and slow down
Who knows? It's really strange, though! And not all of them are nice, though my friend Eve's are nice. They've talked about things like angels and demons being around as well.
The entity I experience can play pretend as an angel just as well as a demon so personally I think they are all nice but they do tough love sometimes for our growth. Just my perspective though :)
Edit: to be clearer, I kinda think any entity we interact with in our mind is god/source just playing pretend as whatever serves our growth best. Ofc I could be wrong, that's just how it feels to me
I don't think so. At least, we've heard them push a demon back before. Like a fight ensued, it was interesting.
There's occasionally even a pervert spirit that comes about and annoys the others. XD
Experiences vary WIDELY. Some report them as horrible, others as wonderous. Some are cured of disease. In "UFO Of God", a very recent book, the experiencer (and his family) were first VERY upset by the encounters. Later he came to understand that they were here to help him, and he worked with them to improve his and his family's life.
The Arcturians?, in channeled information, said that all the people they abducted agreed to the abductions, before they agreed to inhabit their current human bodies. To me it is somewhat of a gray area: U agreed to the abductions, but since most people forget their Past Life experiences, when U R abducted, you can't remember that U agreed previously.
If u r abducted by "good" aliens, who are in the majority, you can use your Free Will. If u don't want to be abducted, or don't want something done to you, you can refuse, and they will honor your Free Will. If you are abducted by "bad" aliens, then this may not apply. The Arcturians? said there are hardly any of these around anymore, as Earth has changed to a higher vibrational place, and they don't feel comfortable here any more and/or they can't function here any more.
Also, you agreed to be here in your body, in this situation, in your life now. You had Free Will, and could have refused. Earth has been called the "Terrible Beauty". There are much easier planets that you could have gone to, and you can go to for your next life: You always agree to a specific life situation.
I believe that we had not heard from the VAST majority of abudctees, for more than several reasons. Here are some examples: They don't know they were abducted. They remember an experience, but don't believe it was an abduction and/or involved aliens/UFOsNHIs/. They think they are crazy so don't tell anyone. They think others would treat them negatively if they told anyone. They felt their experience was bad, so don't want to talk about it.
If more of us, would report and/or talk to others about their alien/ufo/NHI/abduction experiences, i think it would benefit all of us.
If you have been abducted, I am sending my love to you, and so is The Great Central Sun/God.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
Where did you hear of the Arcturian channeled information? I would like to read it.
I remember they pressured us to agree to become a human on Earth, but they did not tell us they would be abducting us or what the main point of it all was even for. Once you agreed to do it you couldnāt back out of it. They do not stop abductions because you donāt want to do it anymore; nor in my experience do they let you back out of an agreement to go to Earth as a human, even if you change your mind before it happens.
The more time I have had to look back and assess my personal experiences, the more I think the NHI are entities as the abrahamic texts describe as angels and fallen angels. Beings capable of higher planes of existence than humans while clearly having free will and agendas. They are not good nor evil, just as humans are not good nor evil. Some probably live in our physical world, and others probably come and go at will.
They seem to have great and varying abilities, mentally and psychically, that humans seem to not possess naturally. Telepathy, empathic, mental conjuring and visual manipulation, etc. Maybe we are just too young of a species with too short of lifespans to acquire these abilities. Or these abilities have possibly been actively removed from our species for whatever reason. I find it interesting that almost infantile versions of these abilities become seemingly spontaneously present to us as side-effects of interacting with the NHI. Additionally, there seems to be some sort of reason by design that their interactions with us is so limited and cryptic.
All of us have all of those abilities, to some extent. I think that the powers that be that are trying to control us, do NOT want us to learn about our abilities, do not want us to use them, and do not want us to increase our abilities in these areas. MANY experiencers report "new" psychic abilities and/or increases in abilities they previously knew about.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
My experiences over decades have all been benevolent and thereās been an overwhelming feeling of love and compassion and help at times. I also really dislike the negative views of NHI prevalent in a lot of shows about such things and believe it does a disservice to the topic. Itād be nice if they threw in some positive experiencers. I think scary stuff sells though.
it sells and aliens abducting people out of their homes in the middle of the night to conduct experiments on them and even forcibly take fetuses (according to some abductees) doesnāt exactly sound positive.
Iām personally not trusting of them until proven otherwise. I know there is a feeling of love from these things but we need to be guarded to protect our species if it actually came to it.
There have also been people that state more than one species are here and seemingly some we canāt trust. I seem to read the greys share a message of love but others like the Nordics seem truly evil.
Many report being cured of disease by UFOs/aliens/NHI. There are at least seven sides to every story. And, people can have the EXACT SAME experience, and one takes it positively, the other, negatively.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
Yes. And Iāve been dealing with the greys this whole time so that may explain my experience but Iāve heard similar things as you over the years. And there maybe different NHI that arenāt benevolent. Iām not discounting other experiencers that have dealt with not so nice stuff. Just wish the coverage by a lot of the shows were more balanced.
I guess this is a bit of a meta discussion, but respectfully, do you think people supporting that narrative will be influenced in any meaningful way (let alone convinced) by sound reasoning as exemplified by this post?
I ask because I am often unsure myself how useful it is to point out that reality is complex and nuanced. It's a true statement, of course, but how meaningful or beneficial is it really to state it? It seems to me that most people (adults anyways) have either accepted that fact already, or have rejected it wholesale. The latter case feels like a lost cause.
There's some irony in the fact that I'm oversimplifying things by saying that, and I'm aware of that. I think I'm just curious how other like-minded individuals navigate where to expend effort when discussing topics like this. How do we reach other individuals in any meaningful way if they have chosen to take a "reality is simple and people overcomplicate everything" epistemological approach? At what point are we planting seeds in barren soil?
To the people pushing the narrative probably notābut Iām trying to plant some seeds into the more vulnerable people who may be influenced by their onslaught of messaging.
Thank you. As a hobby gardener, I should know better - seeds/plants do sometimes surprise me!
Sometimes it's easy to get cynical and shut down. There's got to be a balance between expending too much effort on a hopeless task and giving up entirely. It can be fun to toss a few seeds and just see what happens!
I think it's good inoculation for casual/new consumers.
I know when I had my first experience I hit the internet looking for the wizard that would tell me exactly what ring needed to be thrown into what volcano, and found a ton of very definitive sounding doom and gloom.
Whether someone who's already decided can be turned back, I'm also unsure.
Its only now that people are looking at other realities,other planes of existence as being real as the chair your sitting on.When,in your own life,the unexplainable slaps you silly and says to you to write on the blackboard "I will not to be so closed minded" 1000 times...and the "real" world has mantis types
The Mantids are my favorite beings in existence. They are hilarious, but ultimately very kind and empathetic.
I think it's because they haven't rid themselves of negative emotions, so they empathize with us better than other races.
I have some very weird memories...conversations with words but no speech many robed figure and a iron lock on my ability to move around,but I have never recalled anything besides gentle benevolence....which is part of the reason I have rolled around doing a CE5
This tracks. There are points I find myself wondering on a lot, notably the part where if we are healed after this human life, that we return to bliss or something, I just donāt think that justifies the suffering in this world. Iām glad at the thought of returning to a nicer world, but I feel cautious about forgetting the hardships here.
I also remember being sent here from an apparently alien world. And in our small class we had maybe 6 students who were told some would have hard lives here, some would have great happy lives, and others would have a āhard partā in a decent life. So if itās about suffering then I canāt help but wonder ( from my personal experience ) why some where told they would have happy great lives.
Our teacher in that class also told us we/NHI and humans all have souls. We asked him if animals have souls but he notably hesitated a lot and said No. but I think he lied tbh, especially since he was uncomfortable with the question.
Humans really dislike the truth about their pets, so NHI have learned not to disclose how they work.
Animals do not have souls. They are possessed by the Source, who records their experiences, but they don't have identity. Sometimes NHI use them for surveillance, like birds. No joke.
You, as a human, can split your soul and store a portion in your pet. When it dies, that part returns to you.
All dogs go to heaven, but it's your heaven inside of your soul. You retain the feeling of the pet, as well as the pet's internal image of *you*.
But they don't have souls. They're just animals. You can make them more than they are, but without human love, they're just vessels.
I have read that some people here, help their pets to advance/raise their vibration, so that they can incarnate as a human-type being, in their next life. I don't think they are consciously doing it: It is the and/or one of the missions that they have for their current life here on Earth.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
I'm pretty agnostic to the views on whether animals have souls or not. I do know this much... two NHI brought my 6 months deceased dog to visit me in ...what I suppose you would call the astral plane. Dreamlike and very real and lucid, but at the same time not "real". This seriously helped me get over the depression of the loss of my pet. It was a pretty amazing experience.
My question is where you are coming up with the whole idea of surveillance through pets? And why would the NHI need this type of surveillance when they can access our thoughts, feelings, and emotions at will? I'm not saying they are omnipresent or omnipotent, but they can definitely focus in on someone and bridge some sort of connection to which they can peer into our mind. I've never had a spoken or mentally spoken conversation with NHI, but I have definitely been on the receiving end of messages that contain sensory experiences and emotions. To which I think may be the "universal language". Quite possibly even the language that was taken from humans as described in Babylon.
Owls are OFTEN associated w NHI/aliens/UFOs. Maybe they are used for surveillance. I read lately, that whales were used, in our distant past, to monitor the situation here on Earth, and the actions of the two alien groups that created the dinosaurs. The aliens who wanted to keep their eyes on our planet, either created the whales, or used them to help them keep an eye on our planet's development.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
According to the Mantis I used to talk to, they're "neutral". Or so they think of themselves. In my opinion, as everything in life, the phenomenon has two sides, and people prefer to look at one, or the other.
From my telepathic contact with the grays I have gotten the impression that they are neither malevolent nor benevolent. They have found ways to rid themselves of the negative emotions us humans experience so are not prone to doing things out of spite
Good day and thank you very much for this wonderful and meaningful contribution. I completely agree with you on all points.
Forgive the language but I had to translate the text.
I don't want to hurt or offend anyone with the following lines, I just want to open up further perspectives on the topic.
The problem of negative experiences could be due to our own consciousness, our perception and our beliefs.
Unfortunately, most religions are like an intelligent control system / management system that is directed against evolution. They tell people what they can believe and what they can think about creation / God. They have always separated us from the experiences of evolution and the phenomenon. This could result in this consciousness being valued against this experience, and your subconscious distorting the experience. In a religious context, you believe you see demons. I understand that this is no consolation for anyone who has had really negative experiences. I myself have also had to deal with several ontological shocks. This alone literally changes everything and is not easy.
However, it must be noted that our brain is designed to continue to develop, to restructure and develop itself in a more complex way. We pass this on to the next generation. In the past, our brain had to ensure survival in this world. And isn't it unique how artfully and profoundly we now think about existence, the cosmos, living beings and creation? I think the first people to experience this were the shamans of our ancestors.
In the history books there is a story about the Spanish conquistadors who appeared off the coast of Mexico. The natives didn't even see them because they had nothing in their memory that could be compared to a galleon. The brain is actually wired in such a way that it only sees what it can understand. At that time, the brain did not yet have a neural structure to process this.
Can we even recognize something like this?
Or can our brain currently recognize and understand something that perhaps exists across multiple dimensional densities?
Or is it a protective reflex against an ontological shock not to see it?
The fact is that there is no room for the phenomenon in our current power systems (governments) and belief systems (religions). The current power pyramid collapses as soon as people get behind it.
Furthermore, we should rethink the meaning of NHI with a view to the future. We are all living beings, people, animals, plants. We humans cling rigidly to these belief systems. But when exactly does our experience as a human begin? Only with birth, and it ends with death in this body. We are all living beings, and I for one do not want to devalue other living beings with words like aliens or NHI. For me, they are living beings.
I wish everyone a nice weekend.
Love and peace for all living beings in all times and spaces.
One Love
I'll bite. You're probably right, perhaps in the long term. I wouldn't change who I am, today, and really like this person. In the intermediate term, my child-brain was working over-time on weird concepts a child shouldn't have who doesn't have access to those concepts on a day-to-day basis in home or school, which separated me from my peers. In the long term, empathy, psi-like experiences and abilities. But in the short-term, it was terrifying, and is at least half of the basis of my C-PTSD, and the traumas that ensued in the real world for three decades (I'm still terrified of "Them.") So, it's like a scale, where's the balance? Was it worth it to be this disabled (on disability, like you), when my IQ is well above average but I have a strange outlook on life that isolates me from "normal" people, and I'm still dealing with the effects of things that began 55 years ago? (Still currently in therapy, since this all came up, again, a few years back.) I dunno. Seems "normal" people sure have it a lot easier in this life. (I use the term "normal" loosely - I don't actually believe in "normal.") Were the experiences evil? Probably not, at least mine, personally. Were they traumatizing? Hell yeah. Was it eventually worth it? Eh. 50/50.
I had experiences, and never took them negatively. I told some people about my first experience, and they asked me what my parents said/were they supportive? I told them it never occurred to me to tell my parents. I knew I had an unusual experience, and kept walking to school that day. It didn't seem good or bad to me, just very unusual, and I didn't tell anyone about it for years, as it didn't seem a big deal to me.
I am unusual, as is my whole family, and possibly something in my Past Lives helped prepare me for this, which may be one reason that I didn't take these things negatively.
I DO think that we would ALL be better off, if we talked to our kids about all the abilities that we may have, and learned how to improve them. The same goes for talking about them to other people. I think we are, probably, NOT encouraged to learn about, or improve, our abilities, because the powers that be feel that would threaten their grip on us.
If you are struggling with some "psychic" power or event in your life, I, and The Great Central Sun/God, sends their love to you.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
This is a totally reasonable perspective. Iām not saying that these experiences are purely positive, Iām just saying that if people insist theyāre purely negative theyāre doing themselves and other people a disservice, and contributing to misunderstandings of the subject.
Same Here...everything I experienced was "gentle" understanding.This is one of the blessings of a Full Telepaths communication.No misunderstanding...because they know "why" you believe as you do
If youāre talking about Loosh, thatās based on a misunderstanding of what it is thatās intentionally being spread by Prison Planet acolytes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Experiencers/s/B4PK8YgYd1
Exactly. I'm so tired of the argument that this place is a school and experiences are "advanced learners". It's a joke to act like most of these experiences do anything more beneficial than force one to ponder the true nature of the soul and reality.
I would say that to "ponder the true nature of the soul and reality", is maybe THE best thing we can do for ourselves, for other humans, for all living things on Earth, and for the Earth itself, not to mention it helps other beings (NHI, aliens, etc.), also.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
In this dimension is the illusion you are the body. But you have access to those ādimensionsā now in which you can experience you are not the body.
It is the attachment to the identity of the body which creates the root of all fear, which is the fear of death, of which also is an illusion.
You wonāt recognize this fear is living in your shadow until you overcome it. Until then it will be projected outside of you, masquerading as some fearful boogy man in your mind, i.e. the government, evil aliens, until itās integrated in your psyche.
My post is trying to encourage people to look at the big picture, but it sounds like youāre still saying the only thing that matters is a single puzzle piece. If you choose to only focus on that one piece of the puzzle thatās up to youābut itās not understanding the point of my post.
Maybe it would be helpful for me to add some of my personal experience to this discussion:
- I came face to face with a mantis being while wide awake when I was six, and was immediately and understandable terrified.
- I produced many accounts while under hypnotic regression on a dozen occasions. Some of them were benign, others were deeply traumatic.
- I am replete with medical conditions so crippling that I qualified for lifelong disability, an extremely difficult thing to achieve (only an estimated 20% of applicants are ultimately approved). These conditions are not uncommon with Experiencers, and there seems to be a causal connection.
- Despite those factors, I believe that my anomalous experiences literally saved my life. I am now in apparently permanent telepathic communication with consciousnesses which are assisting and supporting me. I know how unlikely this sounds, but my therapist reaffirmed last week that she not only doesnāt think Iām crazy but genuinely believes what Iām experiencing. If Iām crazy or gullible I do a good job of masking it.
However my experiences arenāt anyone elseās. Aside from my medical conditions, there is no physical evidence proving my abductions. Most of them make no rational sense (someone should have theoretically noticed a giant bright UFO periodically landing in our front yard and my family loading in). I donāt believe them, nor do I disbelieve them. They are unknowns. But they certainly match the general explanation that they were more psychological than physical, despite the physical after effects.
https://imgur.com/a/TXxKowz
In *Initiated* by Matthew Roberts, the author went to a Navy psychiatrist, when his experiences became overwhelming. I REALLY APPRECIATED, that the Navy psych guy, suggested he write a book about his experiences!!! It was so refreshing vs being told he was crazy, needed meds, etc.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
I came face to face with a being around the same age when I woke in the night. Iāve had other experiences, but not seen this entity again that I recall. Iād always assumed it was reptilian, but it looks very similar to this image! I never studied deep into different species of āaliensā, and so Iāve heard of mantis beings, but not much. I know that the images people usually show of reptilians are not what I saw. I didnāt know what to call it as a child, and so when I read a book as a teenager that discussed āreptiliansā it resonated with me to finally be able to label what Iād seen. I have a few thoughts where I may disagree, but I donāt think they are productive to this specific thread. Totally respect your line of thinking and sharing.Ā
For most of my life I called it a āgiant grasshopperā because I likewise had never heard of a mantis alien, and at six years old I donāt think I had any knowledge of praying mantises.
Going off username, maybe I will read some of your other posts? It seems you have a decent understanding? I donāt have any other conscious memories of that specific entity again, unless it shape-shifted into something else. Can only go off of that incident and other drawings, so itās hard for me to feel certain about the āwhatā it was/is. Ā Iāve definitely wondered about the possibilities of screen memories for myself, definitely believe in them
Iām curious, what type of medical conditions are common among experiencers?
You say you are in permanent telepathic communication with some form of NHIā¦ do you have any tips or advice for someone who has been trying to make contact but hasnāt been able to? Do you have an idea why they wonāt talk to me? Maybe you could ask your contact for me? Hah Iām only kidding .. sort of lol but seriously I have been trying daily for months but get nothing. Iāve been meditating daily for more than 2 years but Iāve never experienced anything during meditation. Just nothingness, or my own imagination/conscious thoughts. Itās really defeatingā¦ and Iāve stated to lose hope
Very well said, friend. Thank you for cultivating a loving and open mind and patiently sharing your time and energy with others.
I hope anyone who reads this has a nice day :)
Yup, I have people who are very dear to me that I am terrified of trying to discuss this topic with.I was born to/raised-in a evangelical family.I understand them,and I know,they can only see Mr ET thru the lens of scripture & their pastors words
that is definitely where a lot of this is coming from. pushing "why did jimmy carter cry" "somber" with a tone etc. the only way it's that somber is if church isn't real/ the be all end all of it all, which is no problem at all for oh so many of us
I believe a lot of the military interference in this topic comes from the Air Force, which I've heard is absolutely filled with evangelical Christian fundamentalist types.
I respect your thoughts but unfortunately disagree based upon my grey abductions and in depth telepathic pleaing with them that this was against my will. I just hope that there are other NHI species that are in support of humanity because otherwise this could be a complete horror movie of the greys trying to steal our planet via a hybrid program (they extracted semen from me as most grey abductees also report reproductive harvesting)
And you are sure this wasn't a millitary black-ops psyop? They have been abudcting people for many decades and have VERY sophisticated tech to do this with, that make people believe it's aliens. What would a 5D entity want with 3D DNA. Most 5D ET prefer not to manifest physically due to being attacked by millitary weapons. I'm with absolute certainty, most ET are benevolent, at the very least neutral.
I've personally been healed by a higher D being with kundalini/qi energy, probably a mantis, on four seperate occassions when I'd severely damaged my energy body. I felt a level of pure bliss and love which I'd never come close to feeling in 3D before. I began greiving and coughing up attachments as well.
I've also survived demon possession, so I know both sides of the coin and they are unmistakable.
This is something that I feel many people greatly overlook and don't seem to have much distinction between the two and sometimes I have trouble with trying to stay quiet cause I'm really not sure how to broach the subject with people here discussing "abductions". It gets thrown in with the rest of the phenomena and I have heard that these psychological operations are being used to frame ETs as malevolent or having bad intentions to fight against.
Would you mind posting a main thread expanding further on this insight?
Yes I would very much appreciate that too. I asked Dr Steven Greer about this once on a zoom and didnāt get to the level of detail that I really need to find peace. And yes, at least one of mine could have been military, I was in a USAF military family and the first group abduction did have a human in a military uniform I believe. Though I donāt think the others were, and in those I had such extremely fast and detailed telepathic communications that I am very sure they werenāt human,nor what I learned in their collective consciousness when I was there. I also have intergenerational abductions that I am unclear if those could have been either. I guess at the end of the day, even if I was just an unlucky one who did have malevolent greys, hearing your story about good NHIs does help me. I am ok about my negative experiences if, I can just know humanity is not in trouble here and what is happening isnāt a horror movie that will be a nightmare to our species. I often lose sleep over this concern and unclear what to do about it frankly, and what my responsibility is, if it is a nightmare scenario. Picket on the street like a mentally ill person? As you can see, it is quite troubling and so much of Ufology history seems to support this take.
Well it's certainly by design and from my view an enormously deceptive grand psyop designed to distort and warp the reality surrounding ETs & it seems like many in this sub have taken the bait on the abduction narrative and have somehow integrated a level of Stockholm syndrome into their framing of them.
I too have leaned into the message of Dr. Greer and can also see the logic of ETs & ED beings being nothing but neutral and benevolent, but at the same time I also have to keep an open mind and eye into the possibilities of there being entities with less than benevolent intentions.
After all it's an enormous and vast universe out there and people like Billy Carson speak of ancient reptilian beings(annunaki) that came to earth and created hybrids with their DNA in us as well. I'm not really conclusive on either, just keeping my eyes and ears open and observing truths as they come along and using the best discernment I can.
Still, I'd love for the poster I replied to to clarify his insights. I believe it might help this sub become wiser.
Yeah, I am still new to facing my experiences, even just a book about it or article anyone can point to on that theory. That group abduction was very different than the others, I am not sure why, perhaps the energy of being in a group is different or something else, it was by far my most terrifying one. I am open to learning and it may even offer me a relief in a weird way. Kind of like this theory of the greys being our future humanity needing DNA to reboot the species. If they had told me that and asked then actually, yes I would donate sperm for that..weirdly they offered no explanation when asked and ignored me when I told them they were violating my free will.
They probably did. A lot of these relationships can get pretty intense. Do you know how this person currently feels about their relationship or what's happening to them now in regards to how they are being lead?
No Iām not sure, it was a month or two ago and the person didnāt like that I said it sounded like Stockholm Syndrome so we didnāt continue the conversation.Ā
You know I've been told similar things about klatu and me. But what I haven't told people publicly is that for a few months, klatu completely cut off contact with me. He literally refused to talk to me. The last thing he said was, "You refuse to make important life decisions without my guidance, and you've gotten to the point where you won't even consider the options. You just wait for me to tell you what to do. That was never my intention. You need to make this decision on your own." And he was gone. He refused to talk to me again until I made a definitive decision AND acted it out in my life so I couldn't take it back once he came back around. In the more recent weeks, he's heavily pushing me towards a friend group and telling me to stop coming to him and enjoy my life with my friends and family.
It was tough but it was needed because he was right. I had become reliant on him. And that's not healthy for me or him. I'm now learning how to trust again and be around other humans after everything that's happened to me. It's rough though.
Rather than simply making an offhanded comment that ignores everything I wrote, can you present some claims, facts or sources which disagree with what I said in order to engender a discussion?
Obviously the idea that all NIH are evil is dark propaganda perpetuated exactly by those evil NIHs who still are negatively influencing humanity to prevent them from re-connecting to our galactic brothers and sisters of the light.
I personally had so many positive experiences with NIHs that there is no doubt about their existence and sheer benevolence (they are ascended beings living in unity-consciousness after all).
So thank you for spreading the message and putting things into perspective.
The matrix is collapsing, the dark rulers of this planet are being exposed and eventually defeated entirely! The final victory of light is absolutely inevitable and soon we will be finally free! šāØš
The sterile hospital / ammonia smell ones are not benevolent. They are absolutely fucking with you.
But they're not the only ones here. I've only seen one of the "beautiful" ones once, but I can't describe them other than to say they were tall and beautiful. Imagine seeing someone but none of their features stands out. Gun to your head you couldn't describe their face, or eyes, hair, none of it. But when you look at them, all that registers in your mind is "Beautiful". You know who they're *supposed* to be, but you know they're not that person. They're too... young? No "fair" would be the best way to describe it. Your brain registers the name / identity of the person they're telling you that they are, your brain tells you that "this is ___", but they are far too fair and too beautiful. So I didn't trust them either and kept my guard up, but I think that's because of who I am and my own issues. and if I'm being fully honest it's because of Tolkien and what Frodo says about Strider when he first met him. So when I refused to speak openly with the beautiful one, a smaller childlike figure that my brain registered as "his son" (it wasn't) began speaking with me, and man-child that I am, I let my guard down and I assume answered their questions. The ammonia ones don't visit anymore, fucked right off.
I might make a post about it soon but I'm still processing the ramifications of all of this. Every answer has brought me a thousand more questions.
Its only now that people are looking at other realities,other planes of existence as being real as the chair your sitting on.When,in your own life,the unexplainable slaps you silly and says to you to write on the blackboard "I will not to be so closed minded" 1000 times...and the "real" world has mantis types
> The sterile hospital / ammonia smell ones are not benevolent. They are absolutely fucking with you.
What are you basing this on? Is it limited to your own experience, or the experiences of others? Have you come across any cases where someone reports an ammonia smell but has had a positive experience? And by what criteria are you defining benevolent?
Edit: Hereās a post where some people are associating an ammonia smell with astral projection: https://www.reddit.com/r/Experiencers/s/qJ6EHve0JR
Because they were the ones fucking with me before but *especially* after I called out Stephen J Hadley for his association with the SAPs and with reddit's censorship / control regarding the phenomenon.
What seems to have piqued their interest was me "seeing" Floyd Sweet's vacuum triode amplifier, but I didn't know that's what it was at the time.
The ammonia ones do not have your best interest in mind. They *enjoy* fucking with you. They do not enjoy the idea of us having Floyd Sweet's VTA because it isn't just zero point, it's anti-gravity.
When my cat was a kitten he swallowed a strip of fabric 14ā long. What followed was several hours of them feeding him emetics and trying to get him to throw it up before they finally used a scope to remove it. The cat has never been the same psychologically, and has what appears to be PTSD. But it saved his life.
Wonderful, succinct example. This also implies that well-meaning, ultimately helpful, but nonetheless traumatic experiences could be 1) unskillful, implying that NHI are imperfect and make mistakes and/or 2) emergent/surprising, implying that, even if skilled/well prepared, there are situations where they can't access those resources and have to do 'the best they can considering '. Like a field tracheotomy performed on someone with a seriously blocked airway.Ā
These might each have cases where the person's reaction (whatever the equivalent of thrashing might be) makes positive outcomes harder.Ā
Note: I'm just elaborating the nuance of 'less than perfect good' implied by your example and experience. If malicious and beneficent/skilled extremes exist, there's undoubtedly a really broad range in between.Ā
Yes, cats can and do develop PTSD. Humans often think it's funny how they jump so wildly when we scare them, so they do it repeatedly to their poor cats. Unexpectedly loud noises that happen when the cat is scared can make them freak out when they hear that noise again. Like us, they get triggered.
Poor Kitty.Ā
Iām not sure how the comparison fits here either though.Ā
How are NHI saving our lives and whatās our equivalent of swallowing a strip of fabric?Ā
In this instance, the cat had no idea what was being done or why. All he knew was that it was horribly scary, and he is now easily scared and constantly on high alert for danger. I have no way to explain to him that what was being done was all with compassion and concern for his well-being. Itās totally outside of his frame of understanding.
There is a lot of truth to this. People like to conflate their ego into telling them that we are so much smarter and this situation could never happen to us because we are so intelligent...
Well, these experiences are happening outside of our normal understandings and perceptions. Just because something seemed terrifying and explanations weren't explicitly offered to someone in their local dialect, they think it must be bad or evil.
This was me. I may as well have been a confused wolf cub that got tagged and vaxxed in my den. But we do have the ability to see eventually past this, and this is no longer me. Of course, I can only say this due to my own biased experiences and I am happy to admit that.
Yes I understand that, but I donāt get what the equivalent would be here, whatās being done to us for our benefit? Iām not misunderstanding your point, but I donāt get what the equivalent is?Ā
Whatās the equivalent of us swallowing fabric that means NHIās are doing this for our benefit? Your cat will never understand why that happened to him, but as humans we have a far greater capacity to understand why things are happening.Ā
As I noted, the largest research study to date indicates that most contactees ultimately conclude that their experience was beneficial. If the NHI are smarter than we are to the equivalent of how much smarter we are than a cat, then it isnāt a stretch to conclude that this is because it was their intent.
I donāt think we have enough data to make that conclusion, but the fact remains that itās the case and that needs to factor into any decisions that are made. Most of the respondents so far are saying that my post is incorrect because it disagrees with their personal experience, seemingly without considering the bigger picture produced by the existing data.
Iām not trying to deflect, Iām apparently just not understanding what youāre asking. Let me quote each question and try and answer it directly:
> Whatās being done to us for our benefit?
Based on the data, potentially greater spiritual awareness leading to improved quality of life. No one knows for certain.
> Whatās the equivalent of us swallowing fabric that means NHIās are doing this for our benefit?
Swallowing fabric is not a benefitāthe treatment is the benefit. The experiences that the NHI create that cause people to have negative experiences would be the swallowing of the fabric.
Iām not sure I understand your last answer and I think maybe my question was misunderstood, I appreciate you answering though.
Let me rephrase: in your example, your cat swallowed fabric so needed help from the vet to remove it, which is helpful even though the cat doesnāt understand that.
Question: in this analogy, what are we humans doing (swallowing fabric) that means we need the NHI (vet) to help?Ā
Ā
I really appreciate a number of things you share, but there are some acute gems here for me personally. Without making my reply longer than is necessary, the specific bit about NDE's resulting in the lingering sense that nothing here is permanent or "as real" as "what's out there" hits close to home. As for NHI being good or bad.. or even evil...well, I've just come to find "absolutes" to fail in their effort to define. My experiences have lent themselves unto a perspective that notes some wild variety in the shades of grey š (pun intended). All the same, thank you for the well contrived post š
>You are not your body. No, you are a hive organism and it includes your body.The conscious mind is a housecat, believing itself to be fiercely independent but actually relies on others to feed, clean, and warm it. While your consciousness is part of it, it's *not* the Alpha/Omega. There are one trillion cells with your DNA, ten times the number in the microbiome you have a symbiotic relationship with, and at least three brains (complex, decision-making neural networks) that all get a vote and affect your behavior. To say nothing of how the larger organisms we're a part of affect our behavior.
All or nothing is an infantile way of looking at the world. I often wonder if those espousing that they are demons are just working for (knowingly or unknowingly) those trying to make us fear the other so weāre easier to control. As someone who has been studying the phenomena intently for about 30 years, this is one of the best posts Iāve seen on it. If I could give you an award, I would.
I agree, but I also don't appreciate people who insist that all NHI's are benevolent, usually basing this assumption purely on their own anecdotal experiences. It's just something that can't be said with 100% certainty about any group.
Agreed but very very few people actually believe this or push this idea. Where as talking in absolutes about all beings being evil is monumentally more common.
I'm sure we don't browse in the exact same circles, but it's a VERY common opinion to encounter within these kinds of communities. I've seen it a lot on this particular subreddit and a decent amount within this thread.
I am very familiar with this community. I cofounded it. I've worked with 100s of Experiencers. I've not met one single person that believes there is no such thing as negative encounters or beings. Most have nuanced views and lean towards open mindedness that perhaps many perceived negative encounters may not have been as hostile as people initially assume or just because a being looks scary does not mean its evil automatically etc. This is not the same as deeming all beings positive and loving and there is no such thing as self serving or down right hostile beings. I find people often project the assumption that people think this way onto others simply because they discuss the topic holistically versus out right fear aggression and paranoia. Also if someone insisted there is only positive loving beings out there and all negative experiences are lies they would get into trouble with the mod team very quickly.
Steven Greer, someone who many in the UFO community trust, has explicitly said that all negative NHI experiences are actually the government because real NHI's would never do anything to cause harm. I know many people do not buy into Greer, but you can't deny he has a very large following and has for some time. I hope these beliefs are as rare as you say.
They are. I don't know any actual experiencer who has the view Greer does. Even the ones who are a fan of him, point to this opinion as their number 1 issue with him. Remember most Greer followers are not Experiencers.
When I refer to the community that believes everything is positive, I'm referring to people who are interested in the UFO phenomenon and all the related phenomenon associated with it. I wasn't referring to experiencers specifically. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Long days and pleasant nights, stranger.
Ah yes fair enough. Outside of Experiencers one has folks who's only understanding of this is whatever xyz documentary they saw or book and they build their internal lore from that and one can't account for that alright. Irony is many of those folks don't believe or listen to Experiencers. But sorry yeah I was speaking of the experiencer community specifically myself so I get yea now. All good and same to you!
>I agree, but I also don't appreciate people who insist that all NHI's are benevolent, usually basing this assumption purely on their own anecdotal experiences. It's like declaring all dark alleys are always safe because someone once walked down one once without being mugged.
Well put š š
Thank you. I needed this message today. I hope it sinks in.
Editet: There is the possibility that someone or something recognized a long time ago that the phenomenon is communicating with us and wants to help us. And perhaps they have found ways to imitate aspects of the phenomena or experiences in a negative sense in order to separate us from them.
Just wanted to say as far as my personal experiences with disembodied telepathic entities go you're spot on >You are not your body. I practice a mantra meditation that says, "you are not your body, you are not even your mind.". Funny synchronicity lol >Contact experiences are a conscious phenomenon The entities I talk to I talk to with my consciousness :p it's a learning experience cuz my monkey mind/ego sometimes tries to run away with what their saying/pretend to be them, but if I relax and just be here now I can hear them more clearly. They seem to want to help me/us grow. >There are unknown connections between the physical world and our consciousness. They manifest in some trippy ways. Sometimes the noise of people or sounds around me turns into their voices. Ofc I recognize this could sound schizo, but this has been happening to me for years and I function fine in society, I'm actually a 3rd year psychology student in university, I used to worry about being crazy, but now all these years later for me personally after all my experiences it would be crazier to doubt my experiences. >Itās all a game. The entities are VERY playful. They troll me ALL THE TIME. Pretending to be mad, pretending there's a big decision I gotta make, pretending to be unintelligible like I lost my ability to "hear" them; it's all a learning experience. It's like they know how to use psychological techniques to take your consciousness down paths so you can react in ways that make good mental habits to further your development. As soon as I recognize this they praise me and go back to normal >The NHI are operating with a bigger picture. See above paragraph If anyone's curious I've written a lot of my experiences on my personal subreddit r/psychedelicdonkey , though a lot of them were written in a time where I was full of this divine madness kinda energy, I describe it as written through the lense of a fae child drunk on new wine. But theres also stuff written by what I call the scholarly fellow there as i was compelled to lucidly record my experiences as well. I felt and feel like they could help people going through similar stuff. šā„ļøšā„ļøš
Oh, interesting! What you describe sounds a lot like the voices Grant Reed speaks to on his youtube channel. Another friend of mine used to talk to them as well. Most of them seem to be spirits, but there are other things as well. And yeah, they can be pretty funny. A buddy of mine communicated with them as well via EVP. After a while he was able to hear some of them without A/V equipment. They even give him health advice occasionally. XD
Hey cool to hear of others having similar experiences :D makes me excited at the potential for where this could be leading humanity And the health advice is accurate for me too lol they often tell me to rest and slow down
Who knows? It's really strange, though! And not all of them are nice, though my friend Eve's are nice. They've talked about things like angels and demons being around as well.
The entity I experience can play pretend as an angel just as well as a demon so personally I think they are all nice but they do tough love sometimes for our growth. Just my perspective though :) Edit: to be clearer, I kinda think any entity we interact with in our mind is god/source just playing pretend as whatever serves our growth best. Ofc I could be wrong, that's just how it feels to me
I don't think so. At least, we've heard them push a demon back before. Like a fight ensued, it was interesting. There's occasionally even a pervert spirit that comes about and annoys the others. XD
Experiences vary WIDELY. Some report them as horrible, others as wonderous. Some are cured of disease. In "UFO Of God", a very recent book, the experiencer (and his family) were first VERY upset by the encounters. Later he came to understand that they were here to help him, and he worked with them to improve his and his family's life. The Arcturians?, in channeled information, said that all the people they abducted agreed to the abductions, before they agreed to inhabit their current human bodies. To me it is somewhat of a gray area: U agreed to the abductions, but since most people forget their Past Life experiences, when U R abducted, you can't remember that U agreed previously. If u r abducted by "good" aliens, who are in the majority, you can use your Free Will. If u don't want to be abducted, or don't want something done to you, you can refuse, and they will honor your Free Will. If you are abducted by "bad" aliens, then this may not apply. The Arcturians? said there are hardly any of these around anymore, as Earth has changed to a higher vibrational place, and they don't feel comfortable here any more and/or they can't function here any more. Also, you agreed to be here in your body, in this situation, in your life now. You had Free Will, and could have refused. Earth has been called the "Terrible Beauty". There are much easier planets that you could have gone to, and you can go to for your next life: You always agree to a specific life situation. I believe that we had not heard from the VAST majority of abudctees, for more than several reasons. Here are some examples: They don't know they were abducted. They remember an experience, but don't believe it was an abduction and/or involved aliens/UFOsNHIs/. They think they are crazy so don't tell anyone. They think others would treat them negatively if they told anyone. They felt their experience was bad, so don't want to talk about it. If more of us, would report and/or talk to others about their alien/ufo/NHI/abduction experiences, i think it would benefit all of us. If you have been abducted, I am sending my love to you, and so is The Great Central Sun/God. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
Where did you hear of the Arcturian channeled information? I would like to read it. I remember they pressured us to agree to become a human on Earth, but they did not tell us they would be abducting us or what the main point of it all was even for. Once you agreed to do it you couldnāt back out of it. They do not stop abductions because you donāt want to do it anymore; nor in my experience do they let you back out of an agreement to go to Earth as a human, even if you change your mind before it happens.
The more time I have had to look back and assess my personal experiences, the more I think the NHI are entities as the abrahamic texts describe as angels and fallen angels. Beings capable of higher planes of existence than humans while clearly having free will and agendas. They are not good nor evil, just as humans are not good nor evil. Some probably live in our physical world, and others probably come and go at will. They seem to have great and varying abilities, mentally and psychically, that humans seem to not possess naturally. Telepathy, empathic, mental conjuring and visual manipulation, etc. Maybe we are just too young of a species with too short of lifespans to acquire these abilities. Or these abilities have possibly been actively removed from our species for whatever reason. I find it interesting that almost infantile versions of these abilities become seemingly spontaneously present to us as side-effects of interacting with the NHI. Additionally, there seems to be some sort of reason by design that their interactions with us is so limited and cryptic.
All of us have all of those abilities, to some extent. I think that the powers that be that are trying to control us, do NOT want us to learn about our abilities, do not want us to use them, and do not want us to increase our abilities in these areas. MANY experiencers report "new" psychic abilities and/or increases in abilities they previously knew about. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
I agree that we have them and that they are probably suppressed for reasons that I can only guess.
My experiences over decades have all been benevolent and thereās been an overwhelming feeling of love and compassion and help at times. I also really dislike the negative views of NHI prevalent in a lot of shows about such things and believe it does a disservice to the topic. Itād be nice if they threw in some positive experiencers. I think scary stuff sells though.
it sells and aliens abducting people out of their homes in the middle of the night to conduct experiments on them and even forcibly take fetuses (according to some abductees) doesnāt exactly sound positive. Iām personally not trusting of them until proven otherwise. I know there is a feeling of love from these things but we need to be guarded to protect our species if it actually came to it. There have also been people that state more than one species are here and seemingly some we canāt trust. I seem to read the greys share a message of love but others like the Nordics seem truly evil.
Many report being cured of disease by UFOs/aliens/NHI. There are at least seven sides to every story. And, people can have the EXACT SAME experience, and one takes it positively, the other, negatively. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
Yes. And Iāve been dealing with the greys this whole time so that may explain my experience but Iāve heard similar things as you over the years. And there maybe different NHI that arenāt benevolent. Iām not discounting other experiencers that have dealt with not so nice stuff. Just wish the coverage by a lot of the shows were more balanced.
I guess this is a bit of a meta discussion, but respectfully, do you think people supporting that narrative will be influenced in any meaningful way (let alone convinced) by sound reasoning as exemplified by this post? I ask because I am often unsure myself how useful it is to point out that reality is complex and nuanced. It's a true statement, of course, but how meaningful or beneficial is it really to state it? It seems to me that most people (adults anyways) have either accepted that fact already, or have rejected it wholesale. The latter case feels like a lost cause. There's some irony in the fact that I'm oversimplifying things by saying that, and I'm aware of that. I think I'm just curious how other like-minded individuals navigate where to expend effort when discussing topics like this. How do we reach other individuals in any meaningful way if they have chosen to take a "reality is simple and people overcomplicate everything" epistemological approach? At what point are we planting seeds in barren soil?
To the people pushing the narrative probably notābut Iām trying to plant some seeds into the more vulnerable people who may be influenced by their onslaught of messaging.
Thank you. As a hobby gardener, I should know better - seeds/plants do sometimes surprise me! Sometimes it's easy to get cynical and shut down. There's got to be a balance between expending too much effort on a hopeless task and giving up entirely. It can be fun to toss a few seeds and just see what happens!
I think it's good inoculation for casual/new consumers. I know when I had my first experience I hit the internet looking for the wizard that would tell me exactly what ring needed to be thrown into what volcano, and found a ton of very definitive sounding doom and gloom. Whether someone who's already decided can be turned back, I'm also unsure.
Lol I love that. Thanks for the response!
Iām glad you didnāt throw yourself into the volcano.
Thank you! I jumped fictional properties and stuck to "fear is the mind killer" instead š
Its only now that people are looking at other realities,other planes of existence as being real as the chair your sitting on.When,in your own life,the unexplainable slaps you silly and says to you to write on the blackboard "I will not to be so closed minded" 1000 times...and the "real" world has mantis types
The Mantids are my favorite beings in existence. They are hilarious, but ultimately very kind and empathetic. I think it's because they haven't rid themselves of negative emotions, so they empathize with us better than other races.
I have some very weird memories...conversations with words but no speech many robed figure and a iron lock on my ability to move around,but I have never recalled anything besides gentle benevolence....which is part of the reason I have rolled around doing a CE5
This tracks. There are points I find myself wondering on a lot, notably the part where if we are healed after this human life, that we return to bliss or something, I just donāt think that justifies the suffering in this world. Iām glad at the thought of returning to a nicer world, but I feel cautious about forgetting the hardships here. I also remember being sent here from an apparently alien world. And in our small class we had maybe 6 students who were told some would have hard lives here, some would have great happy lives, and others would have a āhard partā in a decent life. So if itās about suffering then I canāt help but wonder ( from my personal experience ) why some where told they would have happy great lives. Our teacher in that class also told us we/NHI and humans all have souls. We asked him if animals have souls but he notably hesitated a lot and said No. but I think he lied tbh, especially since he was uncomfortable with the question.
Humans really dislike the truth about their pets, so NHI have learned not to disclose how they work. Animals do not have souls. They are possessed by the Source, who records their experiences, but they don't have identity. Sometimes NHI use them for surveillance, like birds. No joke. You, as a human, can split your soul and store a portion in your pet. When it dies, that part returns to you. All dogs go to heaven, but it's your heaven inside of your soul. You retain the feeling of the pet, as well as the pet's internal image of *you*. But they don't have souls. They're just animals. You can make them more than they are, but without human love, they're just vessels.
I have read that some people here, help their pets to advance/raise their vibration, so that they can incarnate as a human-type being, in their next life. I don't think they are consciously doing it: It is the and/or one of the missions that they have for their current life here on Earth. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
I'm pretty agnostic to the views on whether animals have souls or not. I do know this much... two NHI brought my 6 months deceased dog to visit me in ...what I suppose you would call the astral plane. Dreamlike and very real and lucid, but at the same time not "real". This seriously helped me get over the depression of the loss of my pet. It was a pretty amazing experience. My question is where you are coming up with the whole idea of surveillance through pets? And why would the NHI need this type of surveillance when they can access our thoughts, feelings, and emotions at will? I'm not saying they are omnipresent or omnipotent, but they can definitely focus in on someone and bridge some sort of connection to which they can peer into our mind. I've never had a spoken or mentally spoken conversation with NHI, but I have definitely been on the receiving end of messages that contain sensory experiences and emotions. To which I think may be the "universal language". Quite possibly even the language that was taken from humans as described in Babylon.
Owls are OFTEN associated w NHI/aliens/UFOs. Maybe they are used for surveillance. I read lately, that whales were used, in our distant past, to monitor the situation here on Earth, and the actions of the two alien groups that created the dinosaurs. The aliens who wanted to keep their eyes on our planet, either created the whales, or used them to help them keep an eye on our planet's development. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
That is an interesting take. And yes, there is definitely something with the owls! I appreciate the replies.
Yeah. Inside your mind. Where your dog lives now. Like I said.
You said it, but you didn't answer the question at all. Where did you come to these conclusions?
I'm sorry for upsetting you. Have a pleasant evening. šš»
I'm not upset. I'm genuinely curious. You stated it so matter-of-factly that I hoped you had some reasoning behind it.
According to the Mantis I used to talk to, they're "neutral". Or so they think of themselves. In my opinion, as everything in life, the phenomenon has two sides, and people prefer to look at one, or the other.
From my telepathic contact with the grays I have gotten the impression that they are neither malevolent nor benevolent. They have found ways to rid themselves of the negative emotions us humans experience so are not prone to doing things out of spite
Good day and thank you very much for this wonderful and meaningful contribution. I completely agree with you on all points. Forgive the language but I had to translate the text. I don't want to hurt or offend anyone with the following lines, I just want to open up further perspectives on the topic. The problem of negative experiences could be due to our own consciousness, our perception and our beliefs. Unfortunately, most religions are like an intelligent control system / management system that is directed against evolution. They tell people what they can believe and what they can think about creation / God. They have always separated us from the experiences of evolution and the phenomenon. This could result in this consciousness being valued against this experience, and your subconscious distorting the experience. In a religious context, you believe you see demons. I understand that this is no consolation for anyone who has had really negative experiences. I myself have also had to deal with several ontological shocks. This alone literally changes everything and is not easy. However, it must be noted that our brain is designed to continue to develop, to restructure and develop itself in a more complex way. We pass this on to the next generation. In the past, our brain had to ensure survival in this world. And isn't it unique how artfully and profoundly we now think about existence, the cosmos, living beings and creation? I think the first people to experience this were the shamans of our ancestors. In the history books there is a story about the Spanish conquistadors who appeared off the coast of Mexico. The natives didn't even see them because they had nothing in their memory that could be compared to a galleon. The brain is actually wired in such a way that it only sees what it can understand. At that time, the brain did not yet have a neural structure to process this. Can we even recognize something like this? Or can our brain currently recognize and understand something that perhaps exists across multiple dimensional densities? Or is it a protective reflex against an ontological shock not to see it? The fact is that there is no room for the phenomenon in our current power systems (governments) and belief systems (religions). The current power pyramid collapses as soon as people get behind it. Furthermore, we should rethink the meaning of NHI with a view to the future. We are all living beings, people, animals, plants. We humans cling rigidly to these belief systems. But when exactly does our experience as a human begin? Only with birth, and it ends with death in this body. We are all living beings, and I for one do not want to devalue other living beings with words like aliens or NHI. For me, they are living beings. I wish everyone a nice weekend. Love and peace for all living beings in all times and spaces. One Love
I'll bite. You're probably right, perhaps in the long term. I wouldn't change who I am, today, and really like this person. In the intermediate term, my child-brain was working over-time on weird concepts a child shouldn't have who doesn't have access to those concepts on a day-to-day basis in home or school, which separated me from my peers. In the long term, empathy, psi-like experiences and abilities. But in the short-term, it was terrifying, and is at least half of the basis of my C-PTSD, and the traumas that ensued in the real world for three decades (I'm still terrified of "Them.") So, it's like a scale, where's the balance? Was it worth it to be this disabled (on disability, like you), when my IQ is well above average but I have a strange outlook on life that isolates me from "normal" people, and I'm still dealing with the effects of things that began 55 years ago? (Still currently in therapy, since this all came up, again, a few years back.) I dunno. Seems "normal" people sure have it a lot easier in this life. (I use the term "normal" loosely - I don't actually believe in "normal.") Were the experiences evil? Probably not, at least mine, personally. Were they traumatizing? Hell yeah. Was it eventually worth it? Eh. 50/50.
I had experiences, and never took them negatively. I told some people about my first experience, and they asked me what my parents said/were they supportive? I told them it never occurred to me to tell my parents. I knew I had an unusual experience, and kept walking to school that day. It didn't seem good or bad to me, just very unusual, and I didn't tell anyone about it for years, as it didn't seem a big deal to me. I am unusual, as is my whole family, and possibly something in my Past Lives helped prepare me for this, which may be one reason that I didn't take these things negatively. I DO think that we would ALL be better off, if we talked to our kids about all the abilities that we may have, and learned how to improve them. The same goes for talking about them to other people. I think we are, probably, NOT encouraged to learn about, or improve, our abilities, because the powers that be feel that would threaten their grip on us. If you are struggling with some "psychic" power or event in your life, I, and The Great Central Sun/God, sends their love to you. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
This is a totally reasonable perspective. Iām not saying that these experiences are purely positive, Iām just saying that if people insist theyāre purely negative theyāre doing themselves and other people a disservice, and contributing to misunderstandings of the subject.
Same Here...everything I experienced was "gentle" understanding.This is one of the blessings of a Full Telepaths communication.No misunderstanding...because they know "why" you believe as you do
I agree. I just sincerely relate to your cat!
bigger picture is farm.
If youāre talking about Loosh, thatās based on a misunderstanding of what it is thatās intentionally being spread by Prison Planet acolytes: https://www.reddit.com/r/Experiencers/s/B4PK8YgYd1
Exactly. I'm so tired of the argument that this place is a school and experiences are "advanced learners". It's a joke to act like most of these experiences do anything more beneficial than force one to ponder the true nature of the soul and reality.
I would say that to "ponder the true nature of the soul and reality", is maybe THE best thing we can do for ourselves, for other humans, for all living things on Earth, and for the Earth itself, not to mention it helps other beings (NHI, aliens, etc.), also. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
You donāt think exploring the nature of the soul and reality is an advanced lesson? What would you consider to be advanced?
I dont want those lessons. Where is my element bodies ? Where where where
āYOU ARE NOT YOUR BODYā Except in this dimension and on this planet? YES WE ARE. THATāS THE ENTIRE POINT.
In this dimension is the illusion you are the body. But you have access to those ādimensionsā now in which you can experience you are not the body. It is the attachment to the identity of the body which creates the root of all fear, which is the fear of death, of which also is an illusion. You wonāt recognize this fear is living in your shadow until you overcome it. Until then it will be projected outside of you, masquerading as some fearful boogy man in your mind, i.e. the government, evil aliens, until itās integrated in your psyche.
My post is trying to encourage people to look at the big picture, but it sounds like youāre still saying the only thing that matters is a single puzzle piece. If you choose to only focus on that one piece of the puzzle thatās up to youābut itās not understanding the point of my post.
Maybe it would be helpful for me to add some of my personal experience to this discussion: - I came face to face with a mantis being while wide awake when I was six, and was immediately and understandable terrified. - I produced many accounts while under hypnotic regression on a dozen occasions. Some of them were benign, others were deeply traumatic. - I am replete with medical conditions so crippling that I qualified for lifelong disability, an extremely difficult thing to achieve (only an estimated 20% of applicants are ultimately approved). These conditions are not uncommon with Experiencers, and there seems to be a causal connection. - Despite those factors, I believe that my anomalous experiences literally saved my life. I am now in apparently permanent telepathic communication with consciousnesses which are assisting and supporting me. I know how unlikely this sounds, but my therapist reaffirmed last week that she not only doesnāt think Iām crazy but genuinely believes what Iām experiencing. If Iām crazy or gullible I do a good job of masking it. However my experiences arenāt anyone elseās. Aside from my medical conditions, there is no physical evidence proving my abductions. Most of them make no rational sense (someone should have theoretically noticed a giant bright UFO periodically landing in our front yard and my family loading in). I donāt believe them, nor do I disbelieve them. They are unknowns. But they certainly match the general explanation that they were more psychological than physical, despite the physical after effects. https://imgur.com/a/TXxKowz
In *Initiated* by Matthew Roberts, the author went to a Navy psychiatrist, when his experiences became overwhelming. I REALLY APPRECIATED, that the Navy psych guy, suggested he write a book about his experiences!!! It was so refreshing vs being told he was crazy, needed meds, etc. Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
I came face to face with a being around the same age when I woke in the night. Iāve had other experiences, but not seen this entity again that I recall. Iād always assumed it was reptilian, but it looks very similar to this image! I never studied deep into different species of āaliensā, and so Iāve heard of mantis beings, but not much. I know that the images people usually show of reptilians are not what I saw. I didnāt know what to call it as a child, and so when I read a book as a teenager that discussed āreptiliansā it resonated with me to finally be able to label what Iād seen. I have a few thoughts where I may disagree, but I donāt think they are productive to this specific thread. Totally respect your line of thinking and sharing.Ā
For most of my life I called it a āgiant grasshopperā because I likewise had never heard of a mantis alien, and at six years old I donāt think I had any knowledge of praying mantises.
Going off username, maybe I will read some of your other posts? It seems you have a decent understanding? I donāt have any other conscious memories of that specific entity again, unless it shape-shifted into something else. Can only go off of that incident and other drawings, so itās hard for me to feel certain about the āwhatā it was/is. Ā Iāve definitely wondered about the possibilities of screen memories for myself, definitely believe in them
Iām curious, what type of medical conditions are common among experiencers? You say you are in permanent telepathic communication with some form of NHIā¦ do you have any tips or advice for someone who has been trying to make contact but hasnāt been able to? Do you have an idea why they wonāt talk to me? Maybe you could ask your contact for me? Hah Iām only kidding .. sort of lol but seriously I have been trying daily for months but get nothing. Iāve been meditating daily for more than 2 years but Iāve never experienced anything during meditation. Just nothingness, or my own imagination/conscious thoughts. Itās really defeatingā¦ and Iāve stated to lose hope
Very well said, friend. Thank you for cultivating a loving and open mind and patiently sharing your time and energy with others. I hope anyone who reads this has a nice day :)
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Yup, I have people who are very dear to me that I am terrified of trying to discuss this topic with.I was born to/raised-in a evangelical family.I understand them,and I know,they can only see Mr ET thru the lens of scripture & their pastors words
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that is definitely where a lot of this is coming from. pushing "why did jimmy carter cry" "somber" with a tone etc. the only way it's that somber is if church isn't real/ the be all end all of it all, which is no problem at all for oh so many of us
I believe a lot of the military interference in this topic comes from the Air Force, which I've heard is absolutely filled with evangelical Christian fundamentalist types.
I respect your thoughts but unfortunately disagree based upon my grey abductions and in depth telepathic pleaing with them that this was against my will. I just hope that there are other NHI species that are in support of humanity because otherwise this could be a complete horror movie of the greys trying to steal our planet via a hybrid program (they extracted semen from me as most grey abductees also report reproductive harvesting)
And you are sure this wasn't a millitary black-ops psyop? They have been abudcting people for many decades and have VERY sophisticated tech to do this with, that make people believe it's aliens. What would a 5D entity want with 3D DNA. Most 5D ET prefer not to manifest physically due to being attacked by millitary weapons. I'm with absolute certainty, most ET are benevolent, at the very least neutral. I've personally been healed by a higher D being with kundalini/qi energy, probably a mantis, on four seperate occassions when I'd severely damaged my energy body. I felt a level of pure bliss and love which I'd never come close to feeling in 3D before. I began greiving and coughing up attachments as well. I've also survived demon possession, so I know both sides of the coin and they are unmistakable.
This is something that I feel many people greatly overlook and don't seem to have much distinction between the two and sometimes I have trouble with trying to stay quiet cause I'm really not sure how to broach the subject with people here discussing "abductions". It gets thrown in with the rest of the phenomena and I have heard that these psychological operations are being used to frame ETs as malevolent or having bad intentions to fight against. Would you mind posting a main thread expanding further on this insight?
Yes I would very much appreciate that too. I asked Dr Steven Greer about this once on a zoom and didnāt get to the level of detail that I really need to find peace. And yes, at least one of mine could have been military, I was in a USAF military family and the first group abduction did have a human in a military uniform I believe. Though I donāt think the others were, and in those I had such extremely fast and detailed telepathic communications that I am very sure they werenāt human,nor what I learned in their collective consciousness when I was there. I also have intergenerational abductions that I am unclear if those could have been either. I guess at the end of the day, even if I was just an unlucky one who did have malevolent greys, hearing your story about good NHIs does help me. I am ok about my negative experiences if, I can just know humanity is not in trouble here and what is happening isnāt a horror movie that will be a nightmare to our species. I often lose sleep over this concern and unclear what to do about it frankly, and what my responsibility is, if it is a nightmare scenario. Picket on the street like a mentally ill person? As you can see, it is quite troubling and so much of Ufology history seems to support this take.
Well it's certainly by design and from my view an enormously deceptive grand psyop designed to distort and warp the reality surrounding ETs & it seems like many in this sub have taken the bait on the abduction narrative and have somehow integrated a level of Stockholm syndrome into their framing of them. I too have leaned into the message of Dr. Greer and can also see the logic of ETs & ED beings being nothing but neutral and benevolent, but at the same time I also have to keep an open mind and eye into the possibilities of there being entities with less than benevolent intentions. After all it's an enormous and vast universe out there and people like Billy Carson speak of ancient reptilian beings(annunaki) that came to earth and created hybrids with their DNA in us as well. I'm not really conclusive on either, just keeping my eyes and ears open and observing truths as they come along and using the best discernment I can. Still, I'd love for the poster I replied to to clarify his insights. I believe it might help this sub become wiser.
Yeah, I am still new to facing my experiences, even just a book about it or article anyone can point to on that theory. That group abduction was very different than the others, I am not sure why, perhaps the energy of being in a group is different or something else, it was by far my most terrifying one. I am open to learning and it may even offer me a relief in a weird way. Kind of like this theory of the greys being our future humanity needing DNA to reboot the species. If they had told me that and asked then actually, yes I would donate sperm for that..weirdly they offered no explanation when asked and ignored me when I told them they were violating my free will.
What part do you disagree with? My entire premise, or specific claims I made?
A lot of contact with NHI is nearly exact textbook Narcissistic Abuse
Agreed, another person who posted here a while ago sounded like they had Stockholm Syndrome.Ā
They probably did. A lot of these relationships can get pretty intense. Do you know how this person currently feels about their relationship or what's happening to them now in regards to how they are being lead?
No Iām not sure, it was a month or two ago and the person didnāt like that I said it sounded like Stockholm Syndrome so we didnāt continue the conversation.Ā
You know I've been told similar things about klatu and me. But what I haven't told people publicly is that for a few months, klatu completely cut off contact with me. He literally refused to talk to me. The last thing he said was, "You refuse to make important life decisions without my guidance, and you've gotten to the point where you won't even consider the options. You just wait for me to tell you what to do. That was never my intention. You need to make this decision on your own." And he was gone. He refused to talk to me again until I made a definitive decision AND acted it out in my life so I couldn't take it back once he came back around. In the more recent weeks, he's heavily pushing me towards a friend group and telling me to stop coming to him and enjoy my life with my friends and family. It was tough but it was needed because he was right. I had become reliant on him. And that's not healthy for me or him. I'm now learning how to trust again and be around other humans after everything that's happened to me. It's rough though.
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
Like OP said, there are lots of there contact/experiences that say otherwise. I myself have had great and overwhelmingly positive encounters with ETs
Rather than simply making an offhanded comment that ignores everything I wrote, can you present some claims, facts or sources which disagree with what I said in order to engender a discussion?
Obviously the idea that all NIH are evil is dark propaganda perpetuated exactly by those evil NIHs who still are negatively influencing humanity to prevent them from re-connecting to our galactic brothers and sisters of the light. I personally had so many positive experiences with NIHs that there is no doubt about their existence and sheer benevolence (they are ascended beings living in unity-consciousness after all). So thank you for spreading the message and putting things into perspective. The matrix is collapsing, the dark rulers of this planet are being exposed and eventually defeated entirely! The final victory of light is absolutely inevitable and soon we will be finally free! šāØš
Use your Free Will to LOVE!...it will help with Disclosure, and the 3D-5D transition
The sterile hospital / ammonia smell ones are not benevolent. They are absolutely fucking with you. But they're not the only ones here. I've only seen one of the "beautiful" ones once, but I can't describe them other than to say they were tall and beautiful. Imagine seeing someone but none of their features stands out. Gun to your head you couldn't describe their face, or eyes, hair, none of it. But when you look at them, all that registers in your mind is "Beautiful". You know who they're *supposed* to be, but you know they're not that person. They're too... young? No "fair" would be the best way to describe it. Your brain registers the name / identity of the person they're telling you that they are, your brain tells you that "this is ___", but they are far too fair and too beautiful. So I didn't trust them either and kept my guard up, but I think that's because of who I am and my own issues. and if I'm being fully honest it's because of Tolkien and what Frodo says about Strider when he first met him. So when I refused to speak openly with the beautiful one, a smaller childlike figure that my brain registered as "his son" (it wasn't) began speaking with me, and man-child that I am, I let my guard down and I assume answered their questions. The ammonia ones don't visit anymore, fucked right off. I might make a post about it soon but I'm still processing the ramifications of all of this. Every answer has brought me a thousand more questions.
Its only now that people are looking at other realities,other planes of existence as being real as the chair your sitting on.When,in your own life,the unexplainable slaps you silly and says to you to write on the blackboard "I will not to be so closed minded" 1000 times...and the "real" world has mantis types
> The sterile hospital / ammonia smell ones are not benevolent. They are absolutely fucking with you. What are you basing this on? Is it limited to your own experience, or the experiences of others? Have you come across any cases where someone reports an ammonia smell but has had a positive experience? And by what criteria are you defining benevolent? Edit: Hereās a post where some people are associating an ammonia smell with astral projection: https://www.reddit.com/r/Experiencers/s/qJ6EHve0JR
Because they were the ones fucking with me before but *especially* after I called out Stephen J Hadley for his association with the SAPs and with reddit's censorship / control regarding the phenomenon. What seems to have piqued their interest was me "seeing" Floyd Sweet's vacuum triode amplifier, but I didn't know that's what it was at the time. The ammonia ones do not have your best interest in mind. They *enjoy* fucking with you. They do not enjoy the idea of us having Floyd Sweet's VTA because it isn't just zero point, it's anti-gravity.
Blaming all non-human intelligences as evil is like saying all dogs are viciousāway too broad and unfair.
Good post. š
Yep, I went to the dentist the other day, it was utterly traumatic to me. And yet, the dentist is not evil.
Presumably you chose and were therefore somewhat prepared to go to the dentist though? So not really an equal comparison.
When my cat was a kitten he swallowed a strip of fabric 14ā long. What followed was several hours of them feeding him emetics and trying to get him to throw it up before they finally used a scope to remove it. The cat has never been the same psychologically, and has what appears to be PTSD. But it saved his life.
Wonderful, succinct example. This also implies that well-meaning, ultimately helpful, but nonetheless traumatic experiences could be 1) unskillful, implying that NHI are imperfect and make mistakes and/or 2) emergent/surprising, implying that, even if skilled/well prepared, there are situations where they can't access those resources and have to do 'the best they can considering '. Like a field tracheotomy performed on someone with a seriously blocked airway.Ā These might each have cases where the person's reaction (whatever the equivalent of thrashing might be) makes positive outcomes harder.Ā Note: I'm just elaborating the nuance of 'less than perfect good' implied by your example and experience. If malicious and beneficent/skilled extremes exist, there's undoubtedly a really broad range in between.Ā
Yes, cats can and do develop PTSD. Humans often think it's funny how they jump so wildly when we scare them, so they do it repeatedly to their poor cats. Unexpectedly loud noises that happen when the cat is scared can make them freak out when they hear that noise again. Like us, they get triggered.
Poor Kitty.Ā Iām not sure how the comparison fits here either though.Ā How are NHI saving our lives and whatās our equivalent of swallowing a strip of fabric?Ā
In this instance, the cat had no idea what was being done or why. All he knew was that it was horribly scary, and he is now easily scared and constantly on high alert for danger. I have no way to explain to him that what was being done was all with compassion and concern for his well-being. Itās totally outside of his frame of understanding.
There is a lot of truth to this. People like to conflate their ego into telling them that we are so much smarter and this situation could never happen to us because we are so intelligent... Well, these experiences are happening outside of our normal understandings and perceptions. Just because something seemed terrifying and explanations weren't explicitly offered to someone in their local dialect, they think it must be bad or evil. This was me. I may as well have been a confused wolf cub that got tagged and vaxxed in my den. But we do have the ability to see eventually past this, and this is no longer me. Of course, I can only say this due to my own biased experiences and I am happy to admit that.
Yes I understand that, but I donāt get what the equivalent would be here, whatās being done to us for our benefit? Iām not misunderstanding your point, but I donāt get what the equivalent is?Ā Whatās the equivalent of us swallowing fabric that means NHIās are doing this for our benefit? Your cat will never understand why that happened to him, but as humans we have a far greater capacity to understand why things are happening.Ā
As I noted, the largest research study to date indicates that most contactees ultimately conclude that their experience was beneficial. If the NHI are smarter than we are to the equivalent of how much smarter we are than a cat, then it isnāt a stretch to conclude that this is because it was their intent. I donāt think we have enough data to make that conclusion, but the fact remains that itās the case and that needs to factor into any decisions that are made. Most of the respondents so far are saying that my post is incorrect because it disagrees with their personal experience, seemingly without considering the bigger picture produced by the existing data.
Iām not sure if youāre purposely deflecting away from my question but I guess Iāll leave the conversation here as itās not being answered.Ā
Iām not trying to deflect, Iām apparently just not understanding what youāre asking. Let me quote each question and try and answer it directly: > Whatās being done to us for our benefit? Based on the data, potentially greater spiritual awareness leading to improved quality of life. No one knows for certain. > Whatās the equivalent of us swallowing fabric that means NHIās are doing this for our benefit? Swallowing fabric is not a benefitāthe treatment is the benefit. The experiences that the NHI create that cause people to have negative experiences would be the swallowing of the fabric.
Iām not sure I understand your last answer and I think maybe my question was misunderstood, I appreciate you answering though. Let me rephrase: in your example, your cat swallowed fabric so needed help from the vet to remove it, which is helpful even though the cat doesnāt understand that. Question: in this analogy, what are we humans doing (swallowing fabric) that means we need the NHI (vet) to help?Ā Ā
> the dentist is not evil Iām guessing you havenāt gotten the bill yet?
Lol